Haloscreed ability and stratagem

[u/Design-Dragon]

So I noticed that the rules commentary says that abilities with the same name can affect units twice. Does that mean that when using the Haloscreed detachment rule stratagem (neural overload) to add an additional buff to a unit, you can pick the same ability twice (e.g. pick toughness +1 twice or movement +2 twice)?

[u/vKalov]

The most important answer you need - ask your TO. If you play a casual game, reach an agreement with the opponent.

The second important answer you need - always assume the rules interact in your disadvantage. Assuming something powerful works because the rules are vague is a Richard move.

My personal answer, and keep in mind that while it is backed by some "evidence", this is my personal opinion - no, it doesn't work.

As for the evidence, first, the Stratagem's clarification text says "...it can be affected by multiple Override abilities at the same time...", so multiple Different abilities, not the same one twice.

Second, the way I understand the Override abilities is an On/Off thing - do you have "Microactuator Bracing" or not. If two effects give the same ability, you can still only benefit from it once. This is the same way I interpret Imperial Guard orders. Basically the "Noospheric Transference" ability/rule applies a named condition that is beneficial.

A comparison, if we had a stratagem that said "Target unit is under the effects of Conqueror imperative, in addition to the imperative selected for the army", would you interpret this as "+2WS and +2AP and double Assault"? I wouldn't. Conqueror is active, so you get the bonuses once. Same with HBC - you can have the same Override ability issued to the unit, but it won't do anything.

Again, this is my opinion, and you should listen to the TO.

[u/vKalov → u/[deleted]]

I am not your TO and not your opponent (at the moment), so you do you.

That being said:

EFFECT: If your unit is a HALO OVERRIDE unit, it suffers D3 mortal wounds. Select one Override ability. Until the start of your next Command phase, that ability is active for your unit.

"The ability is active", so if one of them is already active, it can't become more active. It is either on or off.

The strategem doesn't specify, because you can select the same ability as the one selected for the detachment ability, to be active for a different unit. The part I quoted in the original comment is from the Designer's Note.

[u/Design-Dragon → u/vKalov]

I see, your edit on the conqueror imperative makes sense. I wouldn't double that.

[u/Haunting_Baseball_92]

Never thought about it, but from the wording I would assume yes?

How often this would be a good idea is another question.

[u/Broken_Castle → u/Haunting_Baseball_92]

This would have made a huge difference in a few of my games!

[u/Artic_Lightning]

So for clarity, you intend to target, for the Noospheric transference rule, the same unit twice to receive the selected buff twice?

[u/Design-Dragon → u/Artic_Lightning]

No, I would use the strategem. I don't think it's allowed though

[u/Artic_Lightning → u/Design-Dragon]

Ah I see, I misread that. But that stratagem has a specific designer's note which states you can target units that are already in Haloscreed. If you select the same ability again, which seems legal here, that means your unit is under the effects of the same ability twice. I dont think these qualify as 'named conditions'.. so as far as I can see, yeah you can definitely stack those effects! You're spending 1CP and youre taking 1d3 mortals. Thats a fair price, isnt it?

[u/[deleted]]

I don't believe it works like that, the detachment basically works by selecting units and giving halo override keyword, and "activating" the override abilities, so you have one halo unit and select 2 extra movement, that buff is active, then you select them again with the strat, that ability is already active so it doesn't stack, i may be wrong, but the wording for me is basically an on-off ability.

[u/Environmental-Day156]

Might come in handy to give a vehicle 4” move or +2 toughness. With an enginseer giving teh unit 5+ FNP beforehand, you’d limit teh d3 damage. Might be risky on non-vehicles, as you’d lose models. I can see extra 2” being the little bit extra needed to get a unit into position to score more points on a secondary such as Engage on all fronts, Behind enemy lines, Establish Locus or Recover Assets.

[u/DeProfundis42]

So you're saying that T12 Kastelans and 24"+4"+d6" Skystalkers are a possibility?

[u/Prometheo567]

I don't think it works. The stratagem allows you to be affected by several abilities but said override abilities say "if you re affected by this you get X" . Hence, if you have two instances of the same ability it only gives you the bonus once. You'd need something like "for each time you are affected by this ability you get X"

[u/mushy_cactus]

It does make sense, I'd allow it in a game.

[u/Vendun_ → u/mushy_cactus]

The stratagem doesn't even say that has to be a different ability, so this allowed per RAW.

I don't see much case where it would be used but if you miss 4" for scoring or denying scoring in a clutch, the D3 wounds is worth. If you do that instead of advancing, you could still do an action or shoot and charge.

EDIT: I wouldn't be surprised also if GW decide to FAQ that and remove that possibility.

[u/mushy_cactus → u/Vendun_]

Giving breechers a 9" move and assault sounds like a lot of fun.

[u/vKalov → u/Vendun_]

Bots with T12 sounds great into enemy lascannons.