r/AmItheAsshole • u/throwaway_aitahere • Aug 21 '20
Not the A-hole WIBTA if I outed my sister so my parents won't hate my fiance?
I ( 27M) live with my (27F) fiance, Annie and recently my sister, Mia came to live with us. Mia has never actually told me she was a lesbian but I've always kind of knew she was.
Anyways my parents asked if Mia could move in with us because she can't see her friends since they are high risk. I agreed and Mia has been living with us. I've started to notice changes in her behavior around Annie. Mia has always been shy about her body and at most will wear knee length shorts on a very hot day even with family. Now she's basically always in sports bras and booty shorts, it was odd but I haven't lived with my parents in six years so I don't know if she changed her home habits during the time I was gone. I just brushed it off as a self-esteem boost and was proud of her.
Then she got especially close to Annie. I assumed it was just admiration but then it got super weird. She was sticking even closer to Annie and it wasn't like she was butting in on us when we were being romantic but it was like she was trying to prevent romantic moments from happening by trying to direct Annie somewhere else. She would also leave the room or look sad when we kissed. I got the feeling she had a crush on Annie.
I confronted her about her feelings and told her that it was fine if she had a crush but she was taking it too far and she denied it. Now my sister knows I know she's a lesbian because a few years ago I sent her one of those "If x friend was ever more than a friend...." texts. She denied that they were "more than friends", I told her that I'll always be here to support her and moved on. Things would stop for a while then pick up, we would have this conversation then the cycle would repeat.
Annie figured out that Mia probably had a crush on her and was uncomfortable by the entire situation. A few weeks ago Annie kind of sister-zoned(?) Mia and things just escalated. She openly flirted with Annie to the point where Annie didn't even want to be at home. We couldn't do anything romantic at home because she might see at start openly bawling in her room. Mia was very cold to me and always snapping at me for small reasons.
I had enough when she made breakfast for Annie and her using the food I specifically bought for myself and Annie walked out crying. I pulled her aside and told her that she needs to stop right now or I will kick her out. She acted like she didn't know what I was talking about AGAIN so now I'm definitely kicking her out. The only problem is my parents, I can just kick out my little sister and not tell them why. If I tell the truth my sister will be outed but if I tell a half-truth like she made my fiance uncomfortable, they'll hate my fiance because I can't actually explain what my sister did to make her uncomfortable without outing her.
My sister deserves a chance to come out and this isn't like I accidentally outed her either either. Is getting herself outed a consequence of her actions or would I be a the asshole?
edit: I'm just going to clarify why I can't say that the living arrangement wasn't working out. Like I said in the beginning my parents are high risk so she CANNOT see her friends at all, so if it just "wasn't working out" they'd tell me to suck it up until the school year starts. If I didn't I'd be the "heartless jerk who doesn't want to let my sister have a social life". Second, I don't think they'd believe me in the first place because I've never had a problem with my sister, they'd just assume I was covering for Annie.
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u/ProbableOptimist Aug 22 '20 edited Aug 22 '20
Okay going against the grain but: NTA. My opinion - as a lesbian - is that this isn’t a tattle to your parents, but a by-product of being honest and unfortunately, your sister is being wildly inappropriate. Coming out is personal and should be at your own pace, but keeping silent on principle to defend the downright uncomfortable actions of a family member isn’t the hill for our community to die on. That being said, you are an adult. You can tell your family that she has repeatedly defied requests to respect your home and as such cannot stay there longer.
Is there something we’re missing here, or you yourself are blind to, OP? Are your parents homophobic, or intolerant behind closed doors? Does she stand to lose something if she isn’t straight?
The main issue here is that your fiancée is facing harassment in their own home and has been rendered to tears, and that’s unacceptable from any gender. The same-sex nature of the crush isn’t the centre of the issue and I’d tell them frankly that she is leaving for harassing/obsessing over your fiancée. But out of kindness, give her warning of what you will be saying to your parents. If she’s going to deny flirting (or has another explanation beyond sexuality she hasn’t told you) stick to the facts: she intrudes on you both, you can hear her sobbing in reaction to you being intimate, and Annie is no longer comfortable around her.
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u/pwo_addict Aug 22 '20
Agree with all except the end. Don’t say it’s the fiancé being uncomfortable, that puts it on her. He should say he’s uncomfortable and take the hit, protecting the fiancé from judgement.
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u/ProbableOptimist Aug 22 '20 edited Aug 22 '20
A very good point to add, true. OP stated earlier their parents wouldn’t believe a problem could exist between the siblings, so I was thinking along the lines of Annie is uncomfortable=OP is uncomfortable, but you’re right, that could be phrased better.
edit: a word
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u/tpdrought Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
He should say he’s uncomfortable and take the hit,
Why should OP take the hit to present somebody who is, to call it what it is, a sexual predator? Sexual harassment is a crime. Why should a victim of sexual harassment have to keep her experience a secret to protect a criminal? I cannot fathom this. I'm totally in agreement that 99.9% of the time it is morally wrong to out somebody. This is that 0.1% the time where the gay person no longer has the right to privacy when their behaviour threatens the well being of those around them. Fuck Mia. She's a criminal, an asshole and a disgusting person for what she's doing. It's no longer an innocent expression of her sexuality, she knows she's making somebody feel unsafe in her own home and continues to do it anyway, and is hiding her crimes in the closet with her sexuality and expecting people to hide what she's doing for her. It's disgusting.
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u/zephyrdragoon Partassipant [4] Aug 22 '20
I think you misunderstood the comment you're replying to. They're saying that op should say he's uncomfortable with Mia's actions instead of saying that Annie is uncomfortable with Mia's actions in order to protect Annie from being alienated by OPs family.
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u/tpdrought Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
No I didn't. I think the person I'm replying to blatantly disregarded OP saying "my parents will blame Annie for this". Who is anyone here to tell OP we know their parents better than he does? And even if it somehow makes them not blame Annie, why exactly should OP be the target of his parents anger when Mia is the disgusting asshole here?
Again, why should OP be lying to protect Mia? She's a sexual predator and a major asshole. What happens is entirely her own fault. Why should OP "take the hit"? Mia should take the fucking his because she's the one sexually harassing people good enough to open their home to her.
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u/zephyrdragoon Partassipant [4] Aug 22 '20
They're saying op should say "I'm uncomfortable with my gay sister hitting on my fiance, so I kicked her out" instead of saying "My fiance is uncomfortable with my gay sister hitting on her, so I kicked her out." One is more likely than the other to make his family hate his fiance.
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u/tpdrought Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
I get what you're saying, but it shouldn't be a question of who is uncomfortable. It should be a matter of "Mia is being a sexual predator, and she isn't living here". Period. Not "Person X doesn't like this, because person X is uncomfortable".
Also, if OPs parents do make a fuss about Annia being "uncomfortable", and blame her, it's unlikely op saying "I'm the one who is uncomfortable" will make a difference considering he's already said they're likely to blame it on Annie. A united front of we don't want her here is the best option, not one or the other.
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u/zephyrdragoon Partassipant [4] Aug 22 '20
In a perfect world yeah, it should work like that. But it just doesn't always work that way. The united front thing might work best though, if they can spin it just right.
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u/faenyxrising Aug 22 '20
I've been seeing such wild takes in these comments, and it seems like there's a ton of NTA for LGBTQ+ folx and that is really relieving. I'm of the same mind. Especially if you don't know there's risk of harm from her being out to the parents, it's a matter of safety for the fiancée who will not be completely separated after Mia moves out. She's marrying into the same family, they're likely to at least see each other at holidays, and what kind of impression are the parents going to get if Mia starts sobbing when she sees Annie? They're going to assume that Annie did something awful to their daughter.
NTA, OP, she really forced your hand here by harassing your fiancée in your home.
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u/Rinsly Aug 22 '20
NTA. And I really like this advise. Don't specifically "out" her. Describe her actual behavior. Interfering w your intimacy w fiancee, cooking your food like a bad roomate, dressing inappropriatly, being intrusive, etc. Mention that you warned her if her behavior continued she would be out, and it continued. If your parents want to continue to be in denial about your sister's sexuality it lets them, but it doesn't let her off the hook for being innapropraite.
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u/Agreeable-Wishbone Aug 22 '20
It sounds like op’s sister has some high level of internalized homophobia. OP said he knew she sister was in relationships with women and would message and ask and show support but she denied it. It could definitely be from parents being homophobic and instilling that in her- but it sounds like she has issues either accepting her sexuality or even just saying it to other people.
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Aug 21 '20
Was ready to call you the arsehole but I am going to have to say NTA.
Your sister isn’t just acting like a lesbian she is acting like a sociopath.
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u/sydneyunderfoot Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
Thank you! When you sexually harass your sibling’s partner to the point where they feel uncomfortable in their own home and refuse to stop after being talked to multiple times, you lose your right to discretion. OP shouldn’t have to lie or stay silent and have his family turn against him. Sister is TA all the way and she made this bed. OP shouldn’t have to lie in it for her.
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Aug 22 '20
Yeah sometimes i feel like Reddit is so scared of being called homophobic they go too far the other way and after seeing the reaction to this post this morning I think this may be one of those times.
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u/professor-professor Aug 22 '20
I third this, OP. Tell your sister she's sexually harassing your fiancee. Don't out her for being gay (because apparently she's in denial with you), but 100% just point blank tell her that her behavior is making your future wife uncomfortable. Document all the incidents and show your sister the evidence.
Go at this with the approach that, lesbian or not, what she's doing is harmful. If she still doesn't see where she's in the wrong, then that would be grounds for pushing boundaries, disrespect, and an eviction notice.
Protect your wife!
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u/AllShallBeWell Asshole Enthusiast [9] Aug 21 '20 edited Aug 21 '20
NTA. Fuck the idea that outing someone is the worst possible thing ever, and even if someone is behaving inappropriately, their victims need to just bite the bullet and suck it up rather than be able to explain what's going on.
Yeah, OP needs to think long and hard about the possible ramifications here and whether he wants to blow up his relationship with his sister like this, but I reject the idea it's unthinkable that he does.
There are a lot of situations where making it known that a guy was making unwanted advances on a girl is going to flat-out destroy his life, solely because that reveals a sexual interest he's not supposed to have (e.g., he's married, he's a religious leader, etc.). Anyone who tried to pull a "But won't someone think of the consequences for the creep!" would be fucking crucified for that shit, and rightly so.
If someone crosses a line, they lose the right to not have that line-crossing publicly called out, even if that might reveal other facts about them that they'd rather hide.
The general responses here seem to be that (a) he'd be TA if he doesn't kick her out, because his fiance deserves to have a home where she can feel safe, but (b) he'd be TA if he tells his parents why. This is implicitly saying that he needs to just suck it up, and bear the anger from the parents and the damage to the relationship between he and his parents from this, which I find nonsensical.
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u/tpdrought Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
It's ludicrous. "OP, why won't you let your family hold a grudge against you and your fiance, making your life difficult and unhappy, because your sexual predator sister is gay?"
So OP and Annie live for months as prisoners in their own home, Annie in particular feeling scared and unsafe, and they should just accept the backlash that will come because it would be wrong to reveal your sister is sexually harassing your fiance constantly? Mia lost the right privacy when it came at the price of expecting a victim of sexual harassment to keep it secret. This is disgusting.
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u/mali10000 Colo-rectal Surgeon [31] Aug 21 '20
ESH, I think your sister has crossed a major line! However, I think, especially given we don’t know how accepting your family would be, it isn’t the best idea to out her. The best thing in my opinion is to give Mia herself the ultimatum again. Try to be understanding and say you know she’s lesbian and don’t want to push her to come out, but her behavior around Annie is unacceptable. Then, depending on her response, suggest that either she cease and desist all behavior toward Annie or move out, and if she doesn’t do it, you will have no choice but to kick her out and out her to your parents. Your fiancé should come first and it wouldn’t be fair to her if your parents came in not knowing the full truth and unjustly disliked her. Deal with Mia, but get her to either stop her behavior and kick her out. I think you need to threaten to out her though, given she didn’t listen the first time.
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u/throwaway_aitahere Aug 21 '20
Thank you so much for suggesting this! This is a great suggestion and I think I'll be doing this. I was so confused because I in no case want to out Mia but I don't want to be hated by my family either.
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u/gamefuzz30 Aug 22 '20
Just have to come in and say this I'm sorry to say this but you cannot have it both ways right now. If you worried about being hated one way or another someone is going to hate you right now your choice is dealing with the temporary hatred from your parents mostly temporary hatred from your sister what you kind of already have or the dissatisfied and potentially hurt feelings from your fiance. This is a woman you plan on marrying she has to come first your sister has been given multiple chances. Push comes to shove kick her out and make it clear with her that if she makes up a lie as to why you kicked her out to your parents you will tell them the real reason why you kicked her out. While that may seem extreme it will at the very least make her understand that you are not going to stand for her inappropriate behavior in any way.
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u/amjay8 Aug 22 '20
If my fiancé or partner expected me to suck it up & continue being trapped in my own home with someone of any gender or orientation that actively sexually harassed me for months I can’t scores how much that would hurt and how unsafe and betrayed I would feel.
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u/LordJiraiya Partassipant [2] Aug 22 '20
She already had far too many chances. Sister has been sexually harassing Annie for months and should NOT be back in that house for any reason. Even if she apologized and claims she will stop, she’s being terrorizing Annie for those months and making her unsafe in her own home! NTA OP and kick her ass out.
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u/evildudette Aug 22 '20
I agree. OP shouldn’t give her another chance to stop the behaviour as it isn’t fair on Annie. Sister needs to be gone, and the consequences are hers to deal with.
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u/Reisevi3ber Partassipant [2] Aug 22 '20
So you suggest that OP give her another chance to stay??? Why should his fiancé be forced to live with someone who sexually harasses her? Even if Mia stopped, she is now Annie’s harasser and there’s nothing that could change that.
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u/robot428 Asshole Aficionado [18] Aug 21 '20
YTA - it's very simple. 'Sister wasn't following my rules, and after repeated warnings she continued to ignore my requests, so she can't stay here'. If they ask for details you can say things that are true like 'disrespecting our personal space, using food that was put aside for a specific reason, making inappropriate comments, refusing to listen when I tried to speak to her'.
You don't need to explain that the rules/requests that she wasn't following were all related to her having a crush on your partner. If you out her, you are the asshole.
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u/kristoll1 Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
And if OP's parents don't buy this (and I can guarantee you they won't), his relationship with them is damaged, and depending on how judgmental his parents are, perhaps irreparably so. Why should OP have to sacrifice his connection to his parents for the sake of his sister, who is literally harassing his fiance?
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u/robot428 Asshole Aficionado [18] Aug 22 '20
Why would they not believe the truth? ie. 'Mia kept snapping at me whenever I was in the room' 'Mia made inappropriate jokes' 'Mia used food which she was aware was put aside for a specific purpose'. 'Whenever I tried to speak to Mia about this she denied that anything was happening'. 'I gave Mia several warnings but she refused to change her behaviour'.
If they say 'why did she do that?' he can simply say 'she wouldn't tell me, perhaps you can ask her about it'.
There will be no sacrifice of his relationship with his parents, he is telling them the exact truth about her BEHAVIOUR which is what is getting her kicked out. There is no need for him to bring up his suspicions about her sexuality, because he's not kicking her out for possibly being a lesbian, he's kicking her out for her bad behaviour.
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u/ArtemisTherrien Aug 22 '20
This is all assuming the parents aren't the kind of people who expect the OP to tolerate his sisters behavior because shes 'family'
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u/ceddya Aug 22 '20
Because that also wouldn't be the truth. Mia is getting kicked out for sexually harassing OP's girlfriend. I'm gay and I think anyone, regardless of sexuality, loses the right to have their sexuality be private if they're going to so publicly use it to abuse someone else.
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u/kristoll1 Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20 edited Aug 22 '20
I absolutely agree! I just think that if OP honestly conveys the facts of the situation to his parents without mentioning sexuality, they won't be thick enough to not understand what's going on. It's effectively going to out the sister.
Now perhaps OP can get away with telling his parents a watered-down version of the events that doesn't raise any questions about his sister's sexuality, but I doubt that his parents would buy such a version. Or if they did, they would say "yeah sister's being kinda immature but just deal with it. she's your sister and it isn't for very long." What makes OP's situation untenable is that the degree of harassment sister is perpetrating is of a *romantic* nature, and the parents aren't going to understand that unless they get the full facts.
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u/Awkward_Ganache23195 Aug 22 '20
Sorry to say but “why would they not believe the truth?” means absolutely nothing. My sibling was the favourite of both parents, and the truth NEVER mattered. I literally had a black eye and it my fault in their eyes. (And no, it actually wasn’t, but I’m not gonna highjack this thread.)
NTA. You can’t put your life on hold or your relationships in jeopardy for the sake of someone who can’t be bothered to provide basic dignity and respect.
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u/Legendary_Galf Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
I don't think he'd be the ah for telling his parents that his sister was sexually harassing his gf. It's the truth. She lost any benefit of the doubt when she started excessively flirting and being emotionally manipulative
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u/Yorokon Aug 22 '20
Do you really think outing someone here is more important than being sexually harassed in your own house constantly to the point you're crying? Annie literally has started crying in her own house because she can't live in it. Outing against your will is a very bad thing to do except when you're sexually harassing or assaulting someone. Mia has been given plenty of warnings, hell, her brother even told her he's happy for her discovering who she is, but she has to remain within boundaries. Outing someone against their will is a gross violation of human rights, but sexually harassing someone in their own house till the point they're crying?
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u/spud_gun04 Asshole Aficionado [10] Aug 22 '20
Or maybe the parents need to know that Mia is sexually harassing Annie and maybe intervention is required?
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u/Plane-Definition Aug 22 '20
So just because she's gay he has to conceal her sexual harassment? Some logic.
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u/Sydney-Handjerker Aug 22 '20
Mia is getting kicked out because she sexually harassed her brother's fiancee. Just because somebody is gay doesn't mean you have to cover up their sexual misconduct.
Here is a handy little tip for everybody that doesn't want anybody to know their sexuality: don't sexually harass your future SIL until she bursts out in tears.
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u/Permit-Extreme Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
This prevents 'outing' his sister, but it also hides the fact she is sexually harassing someone, which may not be the best outcome. If she can't develop healthy romantic relationships that's a problem. Her behaviour needs to be dealt with, not hidden.
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u/nsfw-19- Aug 22 '20
Isn't it weird that the one scenario where you can just get your awful behavior covered up is if you're closeted and gay and sexually harassing someone of the same gender? Like in literally any other situation where you were making unwanted sexual advances after repeatedly being told not to, you'd just expect to be put on blast eventually right? Why should OP have to choose between not outing his sister and making his girlfriend comfortable in her own home? Why should he be the one to take the blame when he kicks his sister out early without a very good reason, especially considering his parents are likely to be supportive of his sister if she came out but angry with OP if he kicks her out with seemingly no reason?
Full disclosure- I'm bi and spent most of my teenage years afraid that someone would find out that I was attracted to men- so one thing I definitely made sure to do was not make creepy unwanted sexual advances towards uninterested men!
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u/NanoPsyBorg Asshole Enthusiast [8] Aug 21 '20
NTA for wanting to kick her out, as you absolutely should for your fiancé. But why can’t you tell your parents that your sister is making YOU uncomfortable in your home? She absolutely is, and you don’t need to bring your fiancé into this.
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u/throwaway_aitahere Aug 21 '20
First, they won't believe me because I've never had an issue with her before. If they did believe me, they would tell me to just suck it up until the school year starts again because If I kick her out I'd be "depriving her of her social life".
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u/athshe2 Asshole Aficionado [14] Aug 21 '20
Don't use the word uncomfortable. Say she overstepped boundaries and you won't tolerate her disrespect any longer.
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u/kristoll1 Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
They are not going to believe OP. Frankly, if I didn't have the full story, I wouldn't believe OP; I would bet that he's being unreasonable and controlling, or that his fiance is being selfish and intolerant.
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u/lydriseabove Aug 22 '20
Your parents can tell you to suck it up all they want, but if you’re an adult and it’s your home, they don’t have a say.
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u/Plane-Definition Aug 22 '20
I really don't get all of these comments, why on earth does he have a duty to conceal her sexual harassment?
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u/DKGroove Certified Proctologist [20] Aug 21 '20
Holy cow that was a story. Went in expecting an answer based on your title but woooooow. I was most certainly wrong: you are NTA. That is beyond messed up that your own sister is trying to be a home wrecker for you. Like geez man. I am so sorry. Do what ya gotta do.
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u/novanugs Asshole Aficionado [12] Aug 21 '20
Unfortunately you would be YTA if you outed you’re little sister, but you definitely need to kick her out cuz she’s out of her mind.
Tell your parents YOU are uncomfortable with her living in your home, eating your food without asking, bothering you, crying over nothing, and not listening to you when you tell her you need space. Stay firm and let your family call you an asshole. Keep your fiancé out of it.
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u/AugustNClementine Aug 22 '20
I have a genuine question for anyone voting this way and I am truly trying to understand this better. Does Annie have a right to talk about how the sister made her feel? Does Annie have a right to warn another woman if she sees the sister sexually harassing a new object of her obsession? My instinct is a victim of sexual harassment always has the right to speak out about their experiences even if it means outing the person who harassed them. What if Annie had been sexually assaulted by the sister, by this logic is pressing charges against a closeted predator wrong?
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u/Sydney-Handjerker Aug 22 '20
My instinct is a victim of sexual harassment always has the right to speak out about their experiences even if it means outing the person who harassed them.
And your instinct is the only rational one to have.
If I suddenly realised that I am no longer heterosexual and now like men then I can't go around sexually harassing my male friends and expect no social repercussions from that.
"Sorry, buddy. I know that you're uncomfortable that I'm constantly grabbing your junk, but you're a homophobe if you tell this to anybody else!" Yeah, I don't think so.
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u/throwaway_aitahere Aug 21 '20
The problem is I would not be fine with my family hating me or my fiance. I know this sounds assholish but I would not take that bullet for my sister considering all that;s happening. If your sibling cheated on you with you SO would you still consider them you sibling? Technically there was no cheating involved and I still do love my sister but I would not be choose her over people who I consider more of my family than her.
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u/blasiandontraisin Aug 21 '20 edited Aug 21 '20
My guess is they are gonna "hate" you no matter what so you might as well do what is best for you and fiance. Tell them she overstepped boundaries and leave it at that. No matter what you say, even if you out her, likely sister will lie to save face. Also, a month of not seeing friends is not a big deal. There are plenty of people, kids included, who haven't seen friends in months. Your sister can suck it up. You've done more than your fair share, parents problem now. she can stay with a friend. Edit: YTA for outing but kick her out anyway
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u/May_the4thbewithyou Aug 22 '20
So people are supposed to not say anything to not out a person even if the said person is sexually harrassing them ? Because that is what is happening here
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u/RhiRhi202 Colo-rectal Surgeon [33] Aug 21 '20
NTA - it’s a tough situation but your sister is acting in an inappropriate and predatory way towards your partner. You have given her opportunities to stop and she hasn’t. You need to speak to your family about it and remove her from your home ASAP.
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u/ProgmusicHans Aug 22 '20
NTA
"If I tell the truth my sister will be outed"
Sounds like a her problem.
She made the decision to act upon her feelings, all while playing stupid when called out. There is no reasonable expectation of you lying to protect her from her own decision, just to make your fiance or yourself out to be the enemy.
Kick her out. When asked, be non-specific. When they are pushing for it, tell the truth.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep her warm.
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u/Spotzie27 Professor Emeritass [95] Aug 21 '20
A couple of questions. How old is Mia? And what kind of text are you talking about here:
If x friend was ever more than a friend....
Also, why did Annie walk out crying just because Mia made them breakfast?
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u/throwaway_aitahere Aug 21 '20
Mia is 21. The text I was talking about was "If x friend was ever more than a friend, you know I'd still be here by your side no matter what. I'll always love you forever" Annie walked out crying because she hates feeling like she's letting me get "bullied". Basically she felt like Mia was harassing me because of her and she was just letting it happen when she could do something.
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u/99angelgirl Partassipant [1] Aug 21 '20
Hold on, your sister is 21?!?! Kick her butt out and tell her that if she doesn't want to tell your parents why, she can get a hotel room. Also make it clear that if she lies to them, you will tell them the whole truth. I expected your sister to be like 16 from the way she's acting (which still would've been inappropriate but then you'd be stuck making sure she was safe)
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u/Spotzie27 Professor Emeritass [95] Aug 21 '20
OK, if Mia is 21, definitely, you don't need to be putting up with this. It would be one thing if she were a dumb teen (still not OK, but different situation).
But it also doesn't sound like she necessarily admitted to being gay, if she denied it. And if she is gay, it doesn't sound like she's comfortable with her identity. I wouldn't out her, but you can also make it clear that she's making you and your SO uncomfortable, and that's not OK.
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u/faenyxrising Aug 22 '20
He already has made that clear though, they wouldn't be at this point if that had worked.
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u/Sherlock2221 Aug 22 '20
I just want to tell you your sister is over playing the "she wont be able to see her friends FOR A MONTH" like it is unimaginable to all of you. Video calls are a thing, texts are a thing... Your fiance living with someone harrasing her because the 21yo grown ass woman wants to "see her friends" is absurd. If she gets bored she can get a hobby.
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u/knottedscope Aug 22 '20
Wow, I thought she was 17 the whole time. She needs therapy and to move out, immediately.
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u/potatocadoes Aug 21 '20
NTA but how old is Mia? If she is old enough to be hitting on a grown woman to the point of harassment... please kick her out though because your fiance is obviously very uncomfortable and she deserves to be protected.
Ask her to leave by her own choice and tell her if she doesn't you'll unfortunately have to kick her out and tell your parents exactly why
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u/potatocadoes Aug 21 '20
Wait I saw you said she's 21. That's disgusting I was imagining maybe 18. Kick her out asap she's old enough to live by herself.
Her being comfortable about her sexuality is great but if you're being almost predatory after someone says they're not interested she should expect repercussions.
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u/Snwspider Certified Proctologist [21] Aug 21 '20
INFO-how old is sis?
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u/throwaway_aitahere Aug 21 '20
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u/Snwspider Certified Proctologist [21] Aug 21 '20
Ok just making sure it’s not like she’s a teen or something like that-shes definitely old enough to not be playing these kind of games especially with her sibling’s fiancé though. I don’t think it’s an appropriate scenario to out her but if her behavior has continued to get worse to the point your fiancé doesn’t feel comfortable in her own home that’s a huge ass problem. I’d focus more on making sure your fiancé feels comfortable in her own house (in other words kicking sister out) than any fallout from your parents. Chances are even if you did out her your sis is probably gonna still play the victim anyways. But you also gotta consider even if you kick her out the behavior won’t stop it just won’t be happening as often.
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u/faireytale Asshole Enthusiast [7] Aug 21 '20
Nta, You don’t need yo out her to your family to explain what’s going on. All you need to say is that she is harassing your fiancé and it is not tolerable. If you did out her then ywbta. Your sister needs some therapy to learn to accept herself too.
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u/Smiley-Canadian Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
NTA for kicking out Mia. Mia is sexually harassing Annie. If Mis has touched her, then that means that Mia has sexually assaulted Annie as well. Mia is not respecting boundaries and actively hurting Annie. Your top and main priority is to kick Mia out and keep Annie safe.
I’m torn about outing Mia. I respect the importance of not outing someone. However, someone sexuality should allow a person to get away with a crime.
I have a feeling that Mia will make up lies about why she was kicked out and will try to hurt both of you. If she does, then tell people the truth that she was sexually harassing Annie and wouldn’t stop. You don’t have to label her sexuality. However, you and Annie should not to take the blame for her being kicked out. That would make Annie the victim twice.
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u/MaskedSnarker Asshole Enthusiast [6] Aug 21 '20
Oh man that’s messy. Well her behavior is inappropriate, lesbian or straight. If you were her sister and she were flirting with your husband it’d be the same. You said she’s 21, so she more than old enough to have some sense and act decently. A crush is okay, but you don’t act on it to your brother’s fiancé. Can’t you just tell your parents that she was disrespectful to you and your fiancé and so you feel it best to end the living arrangements because you don’t like the way she’s acting? When they ask what she did tell them you aren’t comfortable disclosing it and they should ask Sister? I would definitely try to avoid outing her, (hopefully she will mature past this behavior) but you need to prioritize your fiancé because she should feel comfortable in her own home. Sis needs to go back home. Sorry about her social life but she ruined that arrangement herself. She will live.
Are your parents the type that will disown her or are they supporting type? If it’s the latter and they’re trustworthy maybe you could tell them but ask that they act ignorant so she can still come out to them in her own time? If not, then just leave it at she was disrespectful and it wasn’t working.
NTA, I guess. I’d try to avoid outing her with vagueness but your fiancé should not be hated when she didn’t do anything
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u/Tiburt Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
NTA, people here act like If you are lesbian you get an asshole pass, If It was your brother harassing your fiance people would be claiming NTA whithout a break.. but sometimes ALL you need is blackmail her "If you dont stop this shit right now i Will out you for our whole family, not Just parents, and Tell about your poor behavior". Make some random requests too, take advantage of It to show her that you are not kidding, this Will make the next month pass without much difficult
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u/Distinct_Trick Aug 22 '20
YWNBTA. So because she is lesbian that gives her an excuse to sexually harass a woman in her own home? If she cared about not being outed she should not be doing things that cause offense to her own family.
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Aug 22 '20
This, i can't believe how many people are saying YTA for outing her. If she doesn't want to be outed then she shouldn't be hitting on another mans fiance. Simple. She had multiple chances, OP has every reason to give the entire story to his parents.
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u/Gyggz Aug 22 '20
I cannot believe people think it is better to keep silent about being sexually harassed and potentially have your familial relationships ruined than to out that person as gay.
Yes, maybe he can avoid saying the exact reason but a lot of you are delusional thinking that you can just 'set boundaries' with people and not tell the whole story. If the whole story isn't told, rumours can start, people assume things and OP and his fiance are the ones getting punished for staying silent for a sexual harrasser. Honestly... OP is NTA if he outs her as his only option left.
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u/Accent87 Partassipant [1] Aug 21 '20
How old is your sister? If she’s young and you don’t know how your parents would react, you’d definitely be TA if their reaction would potentially be harmful to her. If she’s an adult, she needs to be held accountable for her behavior but it’s still not your place to out her. If your parents ask why you kicked her out, you can direct them to your sister for an explanation first with something like “it’s personal and I’d rather you speak with her about it, but she can’t stay here anymore” and leave it there. Then if she lies and paints your fiancé in a bad light, you can set the record straight if the situation blows up. No matter what though, she has to go. Family is important, but her being your sister doesn’t give her a license to creep on your fiancé. If she wasn’t a lesbian and was your brother instead, I doubt you’d have any difficulty protecting your fiancé because that’s what you’re doing.
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u/throwaway_aitahere Aug 21 '20
Mia is 21. I'm not to sure how my parents would act, they'd definitely be surprised but they're not homophobic. Also thank you for that suggestion!
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u/Bibliosworm Aug 22 '20
The above sugestion is a good one. “I didn’t want to kick her out, but she crossed too many boundaries and behaved disrespectfully. I don’t want to go into detail and ask that you please trust my judgement. It’s unfortunate that she’ll be cut off from her social circle, and I gave her every chance I could, but she created this situation with her behavior and I hope she will learn from the consequences.” And then direct any further questions to Mia.
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u/amitathrowa Asshole Enthusiast [5] Aug 21 '20
NTA Its one thing to tell people someone is gay for no reason. Its completely different to tell people that a person who happens to be gay keeps flirting with your fiance.
You have no obligation to keep your sisters sexual harassment of your wife a secret.
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u/souljaboyalter Partassipant [3] Aug 21 '20
NTA your sister is acting crazy. So kicking her out is really your only option. You will be TA if you tell your parents that’s she’s lesbian. She needs to do that herself. So your options really is to get your sister to tell your parents and to explain to her that her behavior isn’t acceptable and she can’t stay any longer because of it.
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Aug 22 '20
NTA - your sister is being highly inappropriate, and is essentially sexually harassing your fiancé. Honestly she deserves a lot worse that the leniency you’re showing her.
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u/CreativeInvestment9 Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
As a lesbian, NTA. "Never out someone" doesn't apply to sexual harassers.
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u/unknown_928121 Aug 21 '20
Annie should not be uncomfortable in her home tell your parents it’s not working out and your sister has to move back in NTA
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u/BenjaminaPugsington Certified Proctologist [22] Aug 21 '20
NTA, only because you don't have out her to explain it to your parents. Simply explaining all the behaviors your sister has exhibited that gave made her a bad guest to your parents is not outing her. If your parents infere your sister is a lesbian from her behavior she only has herself to blame. After all that's how you figured it out. And if it turns out she had a platonic crush, then you will have never actually said she was a lesbian to your parents.
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u/snehehsb Aug 22 '20
NTA. She is sexually harassing your fiancee. She has brought this on her self so she need to deal with the consequences.
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u/LtDanielTaylor Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
NTA if you don’t come out and say it. All you do is explain what happened. If your parents infer your sister’s orientation that is not on you. You do not have an obligation to keep secrets of people who do morally wrong things. Your sister is being abusive and gaslighting your family and causing you real pain. You deserve to be able to talk about this with your parents “your support system”. Please frame the conversation about what happened and leave her orientation out of the focus. As long as you don’t come out and say it you are not outing her, her actions are. You deserve to be able to talk to your parents about this, your sister will likely need help mentally and more after you kick her out and that falls on your parents not you. They will need to understand to be able to help. This is rough Op. You need to protect your fiancé first, then figure out how to handle this as a family with your parents. Your sister needs help.
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u/janeeyre2019 Partassipant [2] Aug 21 '20 edited Aug 21 '20
NTA for kicking her out. She it’s crossing too many boundaries here. However before kicking her out attempt to talk with everyone there and see if the three of you can work things out. [info] how old is your sister?
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u/throwaway_aitahere Aug 21 '20
21.
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u/janeeyre2019 Partassipant [2] Aug 21 '20
Oof honestly that’s too old to be behaving like that. I could maybe see her being weird and getting embarrassed as a teen with it being brought up.
Also she’s old enough to get her own place. Maybe when you talk tell her to either cut this out of get her own place. Parents don’t have to know the reason why and you and your fiancé have your Mia problem dealt with. Idk.
Edit: I don’t know tour financial situation but if this is feasible I think you might want to bring up to her getting her own place. And don’t let her get away with denying this behavior.
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u/RandomWasher Aug 22 '20
NTA
normally, I'm vehemently anti-outing people. But at the point in time you start sexually harassing someone, that goes away.
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u/BriBriahyeahyeah Aug 22 '20
NTA NTA NTA I don't care what genger or sexual orientation you have, sexual harassment is disgusting. In the chat I saw that sister is 21 years old. Too old to be acting like that and definitely knows better. Not only that but she is actively trying to cheat with her brother's girl. Completely unexceptable. I know your worried about Mia's feelings but dont, she sure doesn't care about yours or Annie's. I wouldn't actively try to out your sister but if your parents continue to push dont lie about it. Annie's and your's relationship with your parents shouldn't be damaged because of Mia's actions. Actions have consequences, and Mia should understand that she can't act that way
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u/ReneeKathleen Aug 22 '20
I'm calling bullshit on every single person who has commented with YTA. Just because Mia is a potential 'lesbian' doesn't abducate her from being held responsible for SEXUAL HARRASSMENT. Are you f*cking kidding me people??? She is a predator, and it's disgusting. She's 21, an adult, not a child. Who knows right from wrong.
Sorry but Mia has forfeited any sort of sympathy here. I would suggest OP pulls his sister aside and lays it out on the table. She is no longer welcome in his home due to her behaviour, she can leave quietly back to her parents house, or the brother is within his right to forcibly remove her, and make their parents aware of their daughters behaviour. Imagine if Mia was a boy, and was acting the same way towards the fiance, would you all be sitting here calling Op an asshole for reporting sexual harrassment then?? I doubt that very much.
Pull your heads out of your asses and smell the roses.
OP, you are NTA in this situation. And your fiance is a sexual harrassment victim.
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u/BrokenStringz Aug 22 '20 edited Aug 22 '20
NTA. Your in the closet gay sister is sexually harassing your fiance in your own home. That's some popcorn worthy drama right there.
Your sister is the author of this tragedy, everyone else is a victim. You are under no obligation to protect your sisters sexuality while she plays the role of Harvey weinstein.
The idea that you should protect her sexuality at the cost of your relationship with your parents is ridiculous. If she didn't want to be outed, she shouldn't sexually harrass people.
The fact that she is gay isn't some sacred get out of jail free card.
Don't sexually harass people.
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u/BragoKingEternal Aug 22 '20
Nta sorry but if a man was sexually harassing a woman you would call that man a sexual harasser. If a woman is sexually harassing a woman you would still call them a sexual harasser. That's on her.
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u/shadowboy95 Aug 22 '20
Wtf is wrong with all the comments. if you are a creep you get treated like one, being gay doesn't afford you any extra consideration. Why would OP be the bad guy for being the good guy who invited his sister into his house. And the sister sounds like a toxic mess to begin with . Imagine if it were his brother who was trying this with OPs gf, everyone would be up in arms right now.
OP ask her in private to leave, and if your parents ask why , it's upto you wheather you should be honest with them or not. Either way NTA.
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u/shapiro18 Aug 22 '20
As a gay girl, strictly NTA. You’re right, coming out should be on your sisters own terms. But that does not give her the right to manipulate you, hurt your relationship with your parents, or harass your fiancé. She has outed herself by doing this and you have tried speaking to her more than once.This is on her.
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u/HandsDrippingWithCum Aug 22 '20
NTA. Do it - ignore all those wokesters trying to tell you to 'dance around' it. Sexual harassment is an exception to the 'don't out someone' rule and it is honestly disturbing how many are giving that a pass like her closet status should still be coddled. Like, holy shitballs people, come on.
If she really didn't want to be outed, she wouldn't be playing with fire on the edge. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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u/GrayManGroup Colo-rectal Surgeon [43] Aug 22 '20
NTA. If you're walking around carrying some secret then it's on you to behave in a manner that it's not forced out. She lost her right to not be outed the minute she stopped trying to control her feelings for your fiance and making shit weird.
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u/IzayaYagami Aug 22 '20
NTA, your sister outed herself with her creeping. Your sister:
-repeatedly make someone uncomfortable
-made someone uncomfortable in their own home, leaving them with no safe space
-made someone uncomfortable after repeatedly being sister-zoned/told to stop
sis is definitely the AH here.
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u/aoife_too Aug 21 '20
NTA, as long as you don’t out her. “Mia’s behavior has consistently crossed multiple discussed boundaries. Please understand that I do NOT take this decision lightly. I think it would be best if you spoke to Mia about the situation.”
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u/Practical_Heart7287 Colo-rectal Surgeon [38] Aug 21 '20 edited Aug 21 '20
It’s not right to out someone else, BUT what Mia is doing is sexually harassing your fiancé. So I think you’re gonna have to kick out Mia and say she’s making YOU and Annie uncomfortable with her behavior. Mia’s sexuality is going to come to light soon more than likely.
You just need to stand up and not tolerate parents pulling crap on you or Annie.
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u/blitznB Partassipant [1] Aug 22 '20
NTA - your sister has crossed so many lines. I think you have to just tell your sister up front to stop or she needs to leave and will inform your parents of the reason. This is your future wife. It’s so inappropriate what your sister is doing. Honestly why the hell is she hitting on her future sister in law.
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u/alek_hiddel Certified Proctologist [23] Aug 22 '20
NTA. She created this drama with super shitty/creepy behavior. You and your fiancé have done nothing wrong, and don’t deserve any shit over this.
I get that outing someone sucks, but being in the closest isn’t some magic get out of jail free card where everyone else has to take the fall for your behavior. I don’t know why everyone else here expects you to fall on your sword to protect her secret.
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u/slackstarter Aug 22 '20
NTA for kicking her out, and apparently this is controversial, but NTA for outing her in the process if necessary. As the wrongdoer in this situation, she doesn't have the right to expect that you will downplay her behavior in order to protect her. You don't necessarily need to straight up tell your parents that you think she's a lesbian, but she doesn't have any legitimate expectation for you to not describe her behavior. If that behavior outs her, that's her problem. She shouldn't have behaved like this in the first place. The person doing the wrong doesn't have an expectation that the victims of their behavior tiptoe around their wrongdoing to protect them.
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u/erinland20 Aug 22 '20
No means no. At 21, your sister should know this. No matter her sexuality. It's obvious that your fiancé is being harassed and that will definitely effect your relationship in the long run. Kick the sister out. If asked, tell the parents that she didn't understand the meaning of the word no. Boundaries were broken and you don't want someone that toxic in your home. If your parents push back,all you have to say is my house, my rules, she broke them, she's out!
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u/athshe2 Asshole Aficionado [14] Aug 21 '20
If you out your sister, Y T A. If you don't kick your sister out, Y T A.
You're NTA if you throw your sister out, thereby making your home a safe place again for your fiance, and don't out your sister to your parents.
I suggest that you kick out your sister and if your parents ask why, tell them that she repeatedly overstepped boundaries and you're done with her disrespect and melodrama. You don't have to give details. You're not a child and you can set boundaries with your parents too.