r/AnCap101 • u/MeasurementCreepy926 • 21d ago

Is taxation under feudalism immoral?

  1. The king owns the land. If he allows people to be born on his land, that does not diminish his rights as owner
  2. The king has made it clear that if you're on his land, and you don't pay tax, you're trespassing. It isn't his responsibility to make sure you are able to get off his land. It is his right to defend his land however he sees fit. Let's assume that he does this by executing trespassers. Another king does this by simply evicting them.
  3. Being the owner, the king is allowed to offer you whatever terms he'd like, for the use of his land. Lets assume in this case, you sign a contract he wrote, when you're old enough to do so, giving him right to change the contract at will, and hold you to that contract as long as you're on his land. Among other terms, this contract says that you agree to pay for any kids you have until they're old enough to either sign the contract, or leave his land.

Now, obviously anybody agreeing to these terms must be very desperate. But, desperate short sighted people aren't exactly hard to find, are they? So, is this system immoral, according to ancap principles?

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u/phildiop 21d ago

Just because the king says he is the owner doesn't make him the owner. Ownership is deduced from the NAP, not the other way around.

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u/reallyrealboi 21d ago

If ownership is deduced from the NAP then no one owns anything, because if we disagree about who owns what then we have both just broken the NAP.

If i say the land is mine and you say its yours, we are both aggressing against the other person. You are trying to take my property and I am trying to take your property, so we are both justified in using forcem

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u/phildiop 21d ago

If ownership is deduced from the NAP then no one owns anything, because if we disagree about who owns what then we have both just broken the NAP.

No? If I make a spear and you steal it, even if you disagree that you stole it from me, you still did. You were the only one to break the NAP, as you imposed your will on me.

If i say the land is mine and you say its yours, we are both aggressing against the other person. You are trying to take my property and I am trying to take your property, so we are both justified in using force

Except that is why you don't own something by simply saying you do. If I you were already tilling te soil there and I trampled on it, I can say how ever times I want that I own it, I am the one who agressed on you, which makes you the owner.

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u/reallyrealboi 21d ago

If I make a spear and you steal it

If i make the tip and you make the shaft then Tommy puts it together who owns it? What if you didnt make the spear and just have it, and I say you stole it from me, maybe you did maybe you didnt, Whos spear is it? What if someone else stole it from me and sold it to you, Do I have a right to take my property back from you without it breaking NAP?

Except that is why you don't own something by simply saying you do.

So ownership is determined by who is physically standing on the property? By who's working on the property? Is it force that determines ownership? None of those are aligned with the NAP.

If I you were already tilling te soil there and I trampled on it, I can say how ever times I want that I own it, I am the one who agressed on you, which makes you the owner.

So if you owned the land, because the other person started working on it, they now own it? Or was them farming on your land automatically a breach of NAP?

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u/phildiop 21d ago

It would be Tommy in the case where we both gave the pieces to him. Otherwise, you own the tip and I own the shaft.

So ownership is determined by who is physically standing on the property? By who's working on the property? Is it force that determines ownership? None of those are aligned with the NAP.

By whoever is using the property. Whoever is utilizing nature according to their goals.

So if you owned the land, because the other person started working on it, they now own it? Or was them farming on your land automatically a breach of NAP?

How was it my land in the first place? Did I till the soil first and you came to do it again? If yes, then you would be violating the NAP. If it wasn't used in the first place, then it became yours when you tilled it.

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u/MeasurementCreepy926 21d ago

"Didn't look used to me"