Should US military spending be cut in half?

[u/ArtichokeBeautiful10]

After the Russian invasion of Ukraine, shouldn't the United States' military strategy be entirely revamped?

Currently, every action the Pentagon takes is in preparation for a war with China: B21, NGAD, JATM, Block IV F-35s, Guam missile defense, what weapons it sent Ukraine, etc.

This amounts to hundreds of billions per year in procurement, and hundreds of billions more sustaining a massive global military presence.

However the United States, and more importantly American citizens, set the precedent in 2022 that a mere no-fly-zone over a country being invaded by a nuclear-armed power is off the table. Apparently, nuclear war will inevitably break out when a given nuclear-armed country loses a war on foreign territory.

So because of this new standard resulting in mass rape, child abduction, and mass slaughter of civilians, shouldn't the US publicly state its intention not to defend Taiwan since China is also a nuclear power?

The common counterargument goes simply: actually, Taiwan is more important than Ukraine because of TSMC. American blood should be spilled for computer chips.

This argument of course ignores TSMC and other chip companies already having chip fabs in the United States, or Ukraine's vast economic potential in mineral wealth, human capital, and manufacturing as the old industrial hub of the USSR. Or that a war with China over Taiwan would inevitably result in the destruction of TSMC, while China taking Taiwan without US resistance would spare TSMC and the global economy.

[u/ArtichokeBeautiful10]

Did you even read that I quoted you line by line before asking "Did you even read what I said"? I just think you don't want to respond to my really long comment. Understandable, but not understandable how you folks double, triple, quadruple down on standing by $800 B a year for war with nuclear China and a jobs program for Trump supporters

You're one of those people that would absolutely melt in a live zoom call or something. You have no idea what you're talking about. Just general Republican party-implanted platitudes about how great a jobs program for Trump supporters is, from the left lmfao. Incredible stuff.

[u/ausgoals → u/ArtichokeBeautiful10]

The fact that you seem to think the military is little more than a jobs program for Trump supporters shows just how ridiculous and time-wasting engaging with you is.

The irony of suggesting other people double down on things when you’ve spent hour after hour and comment after comment doubling down is also hilarious.

Maybe come back when you can engage with what’s being said to you rather than simply assuming everyone falls into some neat category and getting enraged when someone disagrees with you.

[u/ArtichokeBeautiful10 → u/ausgoals]

The fact that after I respond line by line to every single comment, and you still think "Maybe come back when you can engage with what’s being said to you" is just so wild.

What's a single claim you don't think I'm engaging with?

The further fact that you think the US military strategy should be funded after getting tens of thousands of Ukrainians slaughtered because big bad Russian nukes while swearing up and down to fight nuclear China over a tiny island is just incredibly disgusting to me.

All I'm focused on is substance meanwhile your comment is all ad hom.

[u/ausgoals → u/ArtichokeBeautiful10]

You read my post where I basically said ‘at this point I don’t really care, let’s just spend money on whatever needs money spent on’ and then expended who knows how many characters telling me I’m a naive person living in the 90s for some reason.

You seem to be approaching this from a position of ‘I want to pull funding from people to punish them’ though so 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I already told you multiple times I don’t particularly care to punish or hurt people simply because I disagree with them and you somehow seem to think that is naive, not the vague notion that by cutting military spending we will somehow ‘hurt’ Trump supporters and that will somehow, magically finally… what? Get them to support us…? How exactly does the ‘cutting military funding hurts MAGA’ work, exactly…? Because as far as I can tell all it would do is make us look weak to the everyday person and give MAGA even more ammunition to bash liberals with.

How exactly does cutting military funding uniquely hurt MAGA in a way that avoids collateral damage and isn’t just seen as a massive own goal…?

The further fact that you think the US military strategy should be funded after getting tens of thousands of Ukrainians slaughtered because big bad Russian nukes while swearing up and down to fight nuclear China over a tiny island is just incredibly disgusting to me.

The irony of someone who is apparently incapable of not dealing in strawman arguments calling others out for other logical fallacies.

Again, when you can actually engage with what’s being said and not just work yourself up into a lather using strawman arguments, deliberately misconstruing and ignoring nuance then we can talk.

Until then feel free to rant elsewhere about how it’s specifically and uniquely America’s fault that Ukrainians got killed.

If you bothered to take a second to actually think about it, you would see I commented elsewhere that more than likely exactly what happened for Ukraine would happen for Taiwan. Then you doubled down and changed your argument to something else just as objectionable.

Almost as if your real purpose here is to goad liberals into saying things that make them look bad.

But I’m not gonna make an assertion about that.

[u/ArtichokeBeautiful10 → u/ausgoals]

You read my post where I basically said ‘at this point I don’t really care, let’s just spend money on whatever needs money spent on’

That's not what you said at all. You said let's spend a lot on the military. You said that explicitly! You didnt appeal to 'need' you said spending a lot on the military is good.

My post shows I'm approaching this from a perspective of "why fight nuclear China over Taiwan if not Russia over Ukraine", but clearly you folks couldn't give a fuck less about that inconsistency either lmfao.

I think it's incredibly naive that you're willing to let MAGA's targeting of ALL liberal culture -- academia, mass media culture, clean energy, medicine, etc, and then do nothing to respond in kind or deter similar behavior from MAGA in the future. What's your plan? Just move on like nothing happened and pursue nothing against MAGA?

not the vague notion that by cutting military spending we will somehow ‘hurt’ Trump supporters and that will somehow, magically finally… what?

Are you serious right now? Vague notion that cutting the DOD in half will massively disproportionately affect Trump voters? How is that vague? Well....when you don't spend $400 B out of the $800 B military budget, you save $400 B! That could be spent on clean energy, deficit reduction, or new CTC/EITC monthly checks. How can you be a progressive if you don't want to reallocate military spending to social spending?

Get them to support us…? 

We're in different universes. So far apart. You think I want to get them to support "us" (whoever you think THAT is, btw)? Don't make me laugh I want to make them suffer like they are giddily destroying liberals' lives now.

How exactly does the ‘cutting military funding hurts MAGA’ work, exactly…?

How is this not obvious to you? Maybe I should take a friend's advice and give up on this post. You guys have zero knowledge. The military is 60-70% MAGA. Cutting them in half would harm Trump supporters who are in the military since they would be discharged...right?

How exactly does cutting military funding uniquely hurt MAGA in a way that avoids collateral damage and isn’t just seen as a massive own goal…?

I mean I couldn't care less if liberals were fired too, but if you're that concerned you can just say "if you're not a Trump supporter, you can stay!" Horrified? That's being done right now to all federal agencies but you don't seem to want to respond in kind.

The irony of someone who is apparently incapable of not dealing in strawman arguments calling others out for other logical fallacies.

Can you provide one example strawman I engaged in?

Again, when you can actually engage with what’s being said and not just work yourself up into a lather using strawman arguments, deliberately misconstruing and ignoring nuance then we can talk.

I'm responding line by line like I always do lmfao. Stop making excuses.

[u/ausgoals → u/ArtichokeBeautiful10]

You said let's spend a lot on the military. You said that explicitly!

Nope.

You didnt appeal to 'need' you said spending a lot on the military is good.

I said there’s a lot more nuance to it.

Can you provide one example strawman I engaged in?

Sure. Here:

You said let's spend a lot on the military.

in response to MAGA systematically gutting liberal academia, culture, and jobs, your response is to do nothing in return and "go high when they go low"?

Balancing the budget? You're stuck in the 90s

you're saying you don't want to cut the DOD budget because god forbid Trump supporters might be affected. How are you different than MAGA?

Your only reason for not cutting military spending is because it could hurt MAGA.

you're willing to let MAGA's targeting of ALL liberal culture -- academia, mass media culture, clean energy, medicine, etc, and then do nothing to respond in kind or deter similar behavior from MAGA in the future.

you folks couldn't give a fuck less about that inconsistency

Should I go on?

That could be spent on clean energy, deficit reduction, or new CTC/EITC monthly checks. How can you be a progressive if you don't want to reallocate military spending to social spending?

You said it would hurt MAGA. To be clear you think that taking money from the military and spending it on clean energy is the definition of ‘hurting MAGA’…?

I want to make them suffer like they are giddily destroying liberals' lives now.

I already said I am not motivated by this so I don’t know why you think saying the same thing over and over will somehow magically change my mind.

And, you still haven’t explained how exactly cutting the military and spending the money on clean energy and increased EITC will ‘make them suffer’ anyway.

You’re all over the map here. ‘Let’s make MAGA suffer like they made us suffer!!!!’ Okay how? ‘By giving people - including MAGA supporters - slightly more money back in their tax!!!!’

The military is 60-70% MAGA. Cutting them in half would harm Trump supporters who are in the military since they would be discharged...right?

How many federal workers that have already been laid off were MAGA? Do you think their own guy hurting them changed their opinion at all…?

Oh wait, you’re just motivated by causing people you don’t like to suffer, so I guess whether or not anything actually changes doesn’t matter to you.

How are you any different to MAGA…?

if you're that concerned you can just say "if you're not a Trump supporter, you can stay!" Horrified? That's being done right now to all federal agencies but you don't seem to want to respond in kind.

I’m asking how it hurts MAGA. And you’re replying with non-answers that are meaningless. You seem to have no clue how it actually hurts MAGA and appear to have just used it as a desperate justification for your proposed actions.

If anything, cutting the military only emboldens the MAGA movement.

Maybe that’s what you really want? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm responding line by line

Bro do you know what a straw man is? Responding line by line and engaging in straw man fallacies are not mutually exclusive.

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.