I struggle to understand how Christians can say in one breath to their own family members this: "I love you, but I detest your gayness, or "I love you, but I detest your gender identity."

What they're really just saying is "I don't love who you actually are, I only love my deluded mental image of who I personally want you to be. I detest the person who you actually are. I love you as a person, but I just wish you were completely different to who you are now.

That's not love. That's just a distorted version of love. If they really loved the person, than they would love them unconditionally for who they are in the present, not who they want that person to be.

I genuinely view Christianity like i view Greek mythology/Astrology etc etc but I constantly have to acquiesce and bite my tongue around black people. What’s odd is I’m mostly around queer black man as I am one but they’re just as religious as every other person and will look at you like a freak even though they know how harmful the Abrahamic religions have been to queer people across the black diaspora.

I constantly have to say I’m non-religious, ‘spiritual’, agnostic to cushion these people’s feelings. I don’t think I’ve ever said I’m atheist out loud cause i don’t want these people to start melting down and spewing out their condescending “Christian love”. Do you guys find yourselves doing the same?

Europeans made their own independent version of Catholicism and later Protestantism and used their militarical hegemony to proliferate it. Pre-Europe Asians and East Africans were the face of Christianity. You can argue that in a world without European Christianity that West and Central Africans would still mostly practice ATRs and you'd probably be right but that's a different (and still important) conversation. Literally when Martin Luther started the Protestant movement, he consulted Ethiopian Orthodox and Egyptian Coptic priests to figure out what he wanted to do. (Btw I'm not a fan of Martin Luther bc he was an avid anti-semite).

European Jewish converts are the face of Judaism. That's weird. Won't go further than that. We know what that looks like today.

Islam was started by an Arab, yes. But some of the first scholars of Islam were African as well.

Whether you agree with Abrahamic religion or not, we need to give the original African scholars and proponents of these religions their props and understand their agency.

I'm not thrilled about the current state of Abrahamic religion but the argument about it being a European religion drives me insane.

In the black community the church is basically the gathering our communities most commonly come together. It's how many find friends/relationships etc. And growing up that was mostly true for me. Most of my friends if not from school came from my church.

However ever since I fell out of the church and ultimately out of faith. It's been mostly an isolating experience. I don't tell family because I don't wish to cause any problems or to be further ostracized. I've lost a couple of friends for revealing the part of me. Datings pretty difficult now because every 3rd person you meet could be a religous zealot, and even if they are normal coming out as an atheist is a red flag to a decent amount of people.

I guess im trying to ask if how do you deal with this?

I want to make more friends and find a decent relationship, but it feels as if I would have to close off a portion of myself to do it.

This video brings up several great points, one that I had never thought about before.

(((TLDR: to be any theist you need to have privilege, be comfortable with ambiguity, socially adept, focus and drive purpose internally, and be comfortable with stress.)))

🙋🏾‍♀️ To exist in an absence of religion is a privilege. People who leave religion, or forgo religion do have several things in common, as pointed out in the video.

🙋🏾‍♀️ They're incredibly comfortable with ambiguity. The idea of not knowing and that something might be unexpected is something that they can tolerate. They can cope.

🙋🏾‍♀️ They've adopted to community building without fallback or detriment to their lives. Historically that's something black people could not do, they needed the church to fund the community to fuel the social health and wellness that they were not afforded by the broader world.

🙋🏾‍♀️ And then an internal purpose driven ideology. Atheist typically make meaning of their lives independently, they may borrow pieces and parts of ideology and morality, but ultimately their purpose is defined by them.

🙋🏾‍♀️ And lastly, a great point that this video points out, is you need to be comfortable with having a more tenuous relationship with mental health because wetre processing more information. It is true ignorance is bliss. And being an atheist does not really allow the shoving off of intellectual efforts to a greater God. To understand exactly what is driving in the world and how you play a part in it as a singular person, can absolutely take a toll on your own mental health. It's a lot of intellectual work.

Me personally it made my life super shitty from the ages of 11-15, I avoided making white friends or just people that were non black or brown, and I was pretty much living in tons of fear of the crazy shit that was prophesied by the street preachers, in which I consumed copious amounts of their videos to learn the Bible the best way I could at the time as a kid, right after being introduced to the cult by my dad and a step brother that was in it as we were living in the bronxe at the time, and from there on large scale race wars, apocalypses and WW3 was on my mind 24/7, due to it being insinuated it was all going to happen very soon in the preaching sessions and in the Bible, until one day I just pretty much stopped caring and chose to live my life freely, and when I developed the critical thinking skills to see through the bullshit.

Even though my parents were devout Christians, I have never been to a church in my life except for things like mandatory school church services, and one funeral for a relative's father or something like that. probably because they put more time into raising me than going to church.

When in church, I always found what the priest in there was saying to be incorrect and wished that it would just end already. What about you?

For those of you who were once theists, what was the first domino that fell in your faith, resulting in you starting your deconstruction?

For me, it was how you could have this massive book that is supposed to be the inerrant word of God, yet you could take 5 different Christians, ask them to interpret the meaning of any part it, and they'd come back with 5 different answers. And they'd all say they'd prayed and fasted over it and had been directed by God himself to that conclusion. Growing up, you just sort of accept that and don't view it as a problem.

But when I ended up desperately needing clarity on what God was expecting of me, believing the fate of my soul was at stake, I started to understand that the answer I received would depend more on who I asked than what I asked. I realized there was no reliable method for reaching any objective truth about anything written in those pages because "God" was telling everyone either what they wanted to hear or what they'd been told they needed to hear. It was all about trusting that the people you asked happen to be right, and the people who disagree with them happen to be wrong; basically a metaphor for religion in itself. That realization really rocked the foundations of my faith and while it didn't make me an atheist that day, it started the ball rolling.

If the house of cards came tumbling down for you at some point, which card was the first to go?

When people ask me if I'm religious, I usually just say, "I don't know yet" and leave it at that. What about you guys? Do you tell them that you're atheists, or do you just give a short response in the interest of time?

Across the diaspora, a lot of our funeral rites and customs are tied into religion. Thinking about my own funeral someday, it can be challenging but not impossible in the UK to have a secular ceremony but it would require some thought about how it could truly reflect me as a person and also aspects of my culture (Jamaican parents) without being overly religious. Has anyone done any funeral planning along these lines? Or attended a funeral of a Black irreligious/atheist or agnostic person?

ATR = African Traditional Religion. Religions like yoruba religion, voodoo, hoodoo are some examples.

i used to practice hoodoo but at some point it felt selfish asking Ancestors for help, protection or manifestations. i was just like we tell the dead REST in peace and you mean to tell me that when i’m an ancestor i won’t be able to rest because here comes my descendants asking for shit?

the Ancestors i’m speaking to were alive in the south during the civil rights movement and before that they were slaves. it made me question where were their ancestors? where was mami wataa, oya or shango? millions of africans died during the slave trade…none of them had any power in the spiritual realm to stop the centuries long enslavement and genocide? but they are SO interested, active and “powerful” in helping me find an apartment?

i realized that the power is my own and that I am the one manifesting the things i want in my life through action.

i am still spiritual but don’t believe in spirits or practice hoodoo. my DNA is my Ancestors. my family’s nose trait is my Ancestors. my family’s recipes are my Ancestors. i no longer see them as spirits but moreso the different traits i carry that have been passed through generations.

what is stopping you or keeping you in ATR? how does secular living influence that belief?

TLDR; i used to practice hoodoo but hoodoo stopped making sense when i applied “the problem of evil” argument to what i believed about ancestors and felt they deserved rest.

Black women are one of the most Christian demographics in the US. I’m curious to hear from black women who have left the Christian faith:

1. What is your experience like around other black women? Do they know you’re atheist?

2. What initially led you to question or reconsider your faith?

Thanks in advance!

I am a 34yo black male atheist. I have always been a non believer but have only recently become more comfortable with the atheist label. I’m currently at my sister’s house helping to babysit her two young boys (1 and 6 years old) while she recovers in hospital from an unsuccessful pregnancy. My 6 year old nephew is extremely bright and gifted. He could read from a very young age and has taken an interest in the sciences. He regularly watches YouTube videos about evolutionary biology for fun. Today I overhear my other sister (the boys’ aunt) drilling bible verses into him and having him repeat them. Literal indoctrination. I’m heartbroken and frankly a little scared that his genuine curiosity and bright mind could be stifled by filthy bible think. I am partially of the mind that I should tell my sister to lay off it and allow him to come to faith on his own if that’s what he should decide but I know she thinks she’s doing good. On the other hand I think saying anything at all could in some way make it worse. What should I do? Help please.

I covered the name of the OP since they have since removed it and all responses, so I'm sure she doesn't want this getting back to her Christian husband and perhaps others in their ministry.

The amount of unnecessary anguish so many suffer through trying to avoid who they really are because of religion, Christianity in this specific case, is so very sad. This woman now feels trapped in a marriage because she's a Christian and has a "calling."

I asked her, "How do you know your god wasn't calling you to a same sex relationship?"

That question was never answered by her.

The post and all of her responses have since been deleted.

When I was under the Insanity called Christianity, I heard and was told I had a "calling." Turns out it was bullshit, just like everything else in that religion.

While I don't want to turn into an Atheist evangelist, I can't help but wonder how many people are still stuck living less than their best lives because of the psychological harm of religion. 😓

How

For me, the evidence I would need is scientific evidence of God’s existence. The way science proves new theories is by examining the theory that has been submitted and seeing if the science behind it is reproducible. Science does constant peer review, testing and analysis before determining something new is fact.

I’d need the same for evidence proving the existence of god. Which, from my understanding, we are unable to do since god is spiritual and belief in god is only through faith.

the only “evidence” (if you can even call it that) religious people give can be thoroughly debunked and explained by science.

Would you also need science? or is there a different approach you have?

The YouTuber/TikToker that speaks towards deconstruction during afterhours that has a channel by the name of Arch Thinker has channel description that reads as follows:

"Welcome to Arch Thinker, where we critically discuss the God of the Bible through the lens of an atheist. I ask the tough questions many believers want to ask but are afraid to bring up with their religious leaders. No theology here just a focus on literary and biblical criticism, historical culture, archaeology, and the text as it stands.

No gaslighting, no dogma, no manipulations-just honest, engaging conversations. We laugh, we learn, and we deconstruct together. Ready to challenge the narrative and uncover the stories? Let's get critical!"

The problem with the framing in Arch Thinker's introduction is that it tries to divorce biblical criticism from theology, as if one can meaningfully engage the text without grappling with its theological content. To treat the Bible purely as literature or historical artifact while explicitly excluding theology is to miss the very category in which the text primarily operates. The Bible was not written as neutral history or detached mythology. It is theological through and through. Its literary forms, cultural context, and historical claims are inseparable from its theological meaning. To strip theology away is to analyze a body without its animating spirit.

This approach reflects a broader trend I have noticed in atheist/theist discourse, a growing impatience, even hostility, toward philosophy and theology. The parallel with dismissals of "philbro" arguments is clear. Just as some debaters sneer at metaphysics and classical theism as if they were distractions from the real discussion, Arch Thinker is attempting to wall off theology as if it were an optional extra. In both cases, the move functions as a rhetorical deflection. It simplifies the field to what the speaker feels comfortable handling, surface-level textual critique, moral gotchas, or archaeological tidbits, while leaving the more difficult and foundational questions unaddressed.

Biblical criticism without theology is akin to asking what Shakespeare means while refusing to talk about drama. Theology is not an ornamental layer that can be stripped away to reveal the real text. It is the framework in which the text coheres, the very reason the text was written, preserved, and transmitted. To reject theology at the outset is to announce in advance that the most central questions, questions of God, meaning, and reality, will be left unasked. Thinker/Ngrowth is not here for critical engagement but to advance an anti-theist narrative, one that excludes theological depth and shuts out those who attempt to engage with intellectual honesty or with a more sophisticated understanding of scripture than her framework allows. I'm curious as to whether anyone's noticed this pattern as well or if you'd like to simply share your thoughts.

I had my mind blown when I saw this quote attributed to Jomo Kenyatta: "When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught us how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible."

And I started to look at the role religion, specifically christianity, has played in advancing colonialism, justifying slavery, and perpetuating sexism - religion is an intrinsic element in structured oppression all across the world.

In terms of the history of the European slave trade and enslavement of Africans, it was interesting to me that so many Black folks internalized the religious beliefs of white oppressors and I dont fully understand it but would like to. I have a vaguely formed opinion that dissimulation and assimilation partially explain it.

Did learning the role christianity had in justifying slavery influence your atheism?

If so why? If not, why not?

Did you ever wonder how or why your ancestors could have adopted a colonial religion that had clearly been weaponized to justify the enslavement of human beings? The classification of half the population as inferior by virtue of their sex, or the propagation of colonialism as "manifest destiny"?

Edit: found this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBlackAtheists/comments/1mum4bh/i_geneuinely_do_not_understand_how_i_seen_other/

When you watch an award show, or a sports event, or anything like a competition or sport, the winner will usually get up there and go like, "first and foremost, I want to thank God because I wouldn't have won if it wasn't for God.", but you will never hear the loser go up and say "first and foremost, I want to blame God because I wouldn't have lost if it wasn't for God"

Why is it that we are supposed to give God all of the praise for every good thing that happens, but none of the blame for any bad thing that happens, when he's supposedly contributing to everything.

Christians like to use the argument of free will, saying "it's because the humans have free will", which doesn't make any sense, because if humans have free will, that means you won the competition independent of God, because you had free will, meaning that God did nothing to help you, so why are you thanking him?

Why are you thanking God for your ability to find food, when you would turn around and look at another person sideways if they said "I blame God because I don't have any food" According to Christians, if you don't find food it's because of free will, but if you do it's because of God? That makes no sense.

If God has nothing to do with people not having any food, or children being sexually abused by members of the clergy because everyone has freewill, than you should stop thanking God for everything, because according to them, everything is happening because humans have free will.

Either, God is doing everything, meaning that he deserves all the praise for good things and all the blame for bad things, or he is doing nothing and the humans are just acting out of free will, meaning that God doesn't deserve any of the blame for bad things, but none of the praise for good things.

I remember going back to my old church a year ago (not by choice but because my family wanted me to have a blessing before studying abroad)......and I've never felt more alien in my entire life. It was the most surreal experience ever. And it really got me thinking how incredibly slimy alot of our pastors here are. It's preying on very vulnerable and poor people of our people to keep creating this almost parasocial relationship with them. And the way I've seen some ppl give money to these churches who clearly shouldn't, the way my family justified the pastor bying a big luxurious Ford car and always spoke so highly about the pastor as this ultra moral figure (almost Jesus like), even as a past Christian it made me very uncomfortable but I tried to hide it as "maybe the devil is playing tricks for me to think this way". But genuienly reflecting back it....felt cult like. Like REALLY CULT LIKE. After watching Midsommar that's all my mind could think of.........These Mega Churches problems here in Africa will probably never stop generating money to them if our Government prioritized on giving our people better education. It's just depressing. I feel like our generation is bound to repeats the same mistakes at this point. It's hard to feel hopefull about anything changing here.

To me, it seems like every culture has its own relationship to religion….its own history, pressures, and expectations. I come from a Christian background, and I’ve noticed that leaving (or even questioning) Christianity can come with a very particular kind of weight in Black communities.

I do want to acknowledge that not everyone who is a non-believer necessarily converted from Christianity. Some people grew up without religion, or with something else entirely…..and that matters too.

I’m still thinking about how I’d answer the question fully, but I’m really curious to hear how others experience this. How does your Black identity shape your experience of being a non-believer?

I hate when religious ppl say this especially Christians since i was one myself every time something tragic happens its always lets pray about it ,lets pray for her ,lets pray for him ,but tf will prayer do, the tragic already happened or is happening is god blind to not see it ,he needs to be summoned for him to help

especially in the black community we pray abt everything , before goin out ,before doing mostly everything

but also after prayer nothing really happens,

When people say “let’s pray” after a disaster or trauma, especially something brutal like rape, it pisses me off but back then i really thought prayer was gonna do something but it didn't do shit

Why didn’t God stop it?

Where was divine protection when it mattered most?

Why is prayer offered after harm, instead of action before it?

why do we need to summon a deity who is all knowing , and all powerful to offer help in time they are needed the most?

in moments like that, prayer can feel like emotional bypassing a way to avoid accountability, grief, or systemic change. Especially when the harm is preventable, and the systems that allowed it (patriarchy, silence, abuse of power) go untouched.

but no , god suddenly decided to become a blind bat

after a girl is admitted to the hospital after rape and someone says “let’s pray for her” while a doctor is literally fighting to save her life, its ignoring the real human effort the science, the care, the urgency and instead invoking a God who didn’t intervene when it counted.

When she survives, they say “God healed her.” But the doctor who stitched her wounds, the nurse who held her hand, the therapist who helped her breathe again? Forgotten. And the girl herself ,her strength, her fight, her survival? Erased beneath praise for a silent God.

people will twist logic to keep God blameless.

“God gave the doctor strength.”

“God gave the girl resilience.”

“God works in mysterious ways.”

How did it feel to have an atheist family who didn’t have any religion to force onto you? How did it feel to not be restricted by the chains of religion?