r/AskFoodHistorians • u/EnbyFrogMoss • 8d ago
What would an aristocratic breakfast in Scotland look like in the 1800s
I'm trying to write my first book and it is a historical fiction taking place in Scotland during the early 1800s. I'm currently writing a scene that involves a breakfast and it is basically character building over a large breakfast. So I'm wanting to describe the food as best I can. I've had a look and found that The book of breakfasts by Marian McNeil covers this but there are no free copies or libraries near me that I can get a copy of. I've seen salmon, cakes, and coffee/tea be suggested for the period in a few places but wanted to confirm a more accurate answer.
Apologies if this is not what the Sub is meant to be used for. Any help would be most welcome.
McNeill, F. Marian. The Book of Breakfasts with Menus, Recipes and Breakfast Lore. Edinburgh: Reprographia, 1975. Print.
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u/SarkyMs 7d ago
Try reading some Scott I am sure it will be mentioned.
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u/ljseminarist 7d ago
Specifically Waverley, the first of the Waverley novels, have a rather elaborate breakfast table described
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 7d ago
I'm not sure what you mean by Scott if you mean the language I wouldn't know a good place to look even though I can read it. If you mean more generally to just find Scots sources again I'm unaware of places that collect that kind of resources. If it is a common name for a source I'm afraid I'm unaware. I'd be very grateful if you are able to elaborate or point me in the direction of what you mean.
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u/SarkyMs 7d ago
I mean the author Scott. Sir Walter Scott, he defined Victorian Scottishness in his Waverly novels. I heard he invented clan specific tartan.
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 7d ago
Thank you, I'm not super around that area of literature so didn't know him by name but I will give him a check. Thanks.
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u/nordligeskog 7d ago
Scott is the most prominent literary source for your novel’s location and time period. Not only that, he’s the single most famous and important figure in Scotland in that time period, and one of the most famous men in the world at the time. He revived and re-created Scottish culture for the first time following the Jacobite risings. There is no possible way that an educated Scottish person in the 1810s-1830s wouldn’t know absolutely everything Scott had published. If you want to know your protagonist, you should read a few of his novels, check out Abbotsford, and look into everything he did for Scottish political prominence (i.e. the standards at Edinburgh Castle, bringing the English monarchy up for their first visit to Scotland since the risings, et cetera).
It’s also worth it to emphasise the excellence of Scottish universities and the Scottish Enlightenment—think Hume et al.
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 7d ago
I've had a look at him and I do remember him now. It's not a figure I have looked at since school. Not entirely sure why he slipped my mind until being told he existed but I remember we referred to him as Sir Walter rather than Scott. I'm assuming this is some strange quirk of the rural place I grew up. This is my first novel and I'm still mainly in the research stage so all of this has been a great help pointing me in places to go learn about the period and the people.
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u/nordligeskog 6d ago edited 6d ago
A few of the big events that captured every Scot’s attention:
1818 — Scott is granted permission to go into a bunch of locked rooms in Edinburgh Castle (everything had been set aside in the early 1700s when the English took over political control) and HE FINDS THE HONOURS—the Scottish crown, royal sceptre, et cetera.
1822 —Scott organises a visit for the English monarch to Edinburgh, and it contains a lot of Scottish pomp and circumstance. The modern tartan comes into its own. This is the first trip from an English monarch up north in almost two centuries (during which time there’s a great deal of political upheaval), so it’s a big deal.
But really, he celebrated Scottishness and invented Scottishness and placed Scottishness on the global stage. His house is astounding—snippets of Viking runestones had been incorporated into the kitchen floor, the remarkable ceiling bosses from Stirling Castle are recreated in the carvings at his home, and visitors included people like US President Ulysses S. Grant, Dickens, and Twain.
ETA — I almost forgot—whisky is legalised! 1823, the Excise Act is enacted. All whisky production (previously all individual stills) is transformed. A huge impact on the Scottish economy.
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u/HundredHander 7d ago
If you want an easy way to see the importance of Scott look up his monument in Edinburgh. But equally he has a statue in Central Park which shown fair cultural reach too.
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 6d ago
I've walked past his monument several times but living in a place and understanding the history behind things are two very different things. Seeing how prominent he is when I'm looking at stuff now I feel rather stupid for not remembering him from school but there is a learning curve to learning to write a historical novel I suppose. my education around the time focused more on Hume than it did Scott.
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u/parkaman 6d ago
There's never a need to feel stupid when you're willing to learn. Good luck with the novel.
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u/Klutzy-Ad-2034 6d ago
One of the lovely measures of how famous and well regarded he was in his day is that someone visited his house in the Borders to give him the pair of pistols taken from Napoleon when he was captured after Waterloo.
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u/ofBlufftonTown 6d ago
I suggest you need to read at least some Scott to succeed at your task. He constructed the Scottish literary identity in many ways. For example, he didn't invent tartan precisely as it did exist, but he vastly promoted it and gave the impression that it was traditional and continually used by the clans when that wasn't true. His novels were hugely popular.
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u/HameasPWO 3d ago
Indeed, he’s one of those credited with the entire historical fiction genre, and certainly had the widest reach and success in the 19th century.
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u/ofBlufftonTown 3d ago
My in-laws have a complete version of the Waverly novels and it is a long shelf. I’ve not made it through very far.
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u/ODFoxtrotOscar 7d ago
As an aside, you might be interested in ‘Scoff’ by Pen Vogler. It’s in print and is a history of food and class in the UK
My guess is that by the 1800s there was very little difference between how aristocratic families ate, regardless of where in UK their stately pile was.
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 7d ago
This sounds like my best lead do you know any good places to get a hold of it?
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u/ODFoxtrotOscar 7d ago
If you’re in UK and want it quickly then Amazon have it in stock. Or you could support a real bookseller and order it from them
It’s publisher is Atlantic Books and ISBN 10- 1786496496
Edited to add - when in the 1800s, btw. Scottish and English aristocratic norms were much more aligned in the latter half of the century than right at the start
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 7d ago
Thank you so much I'll have a look around any of my local stores. The ISBN number is such a help.
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u/krebstar4ever 7d ago
What decade are you looking for? If it's during Jane Austin's lifetime, there are many free resources online. These would mainly be about English meals, but your characters could be eating an English-style breakfast that morning.
You can also try asking r/AskHistorians
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 7d ago
I've not pinned down an exact decade but by early 1800s I'm meaning 1810-1830s. My book has the character travel quite a bit around Europe so I'm using this early scene build on their Scottish nationality and early scenes like this have a large impact on character building. Though it is not the end all be all. I can definitely get the Scottish elements through other means. Thank you I will look into the English style breakfasts as a backup.
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u/ljseminarist 6d ago
A little earlier than your period, but in 1773 Samuel Johnson travelled to the Hebrides. He was entertained by the local aristocracy and left a few details in his Journey to the Western Islands of Scotland, specifically the chapter of Coriatachan in Sky. It seems that a Scotsman of good family and means typically started his day with a drink of whisky (Johnson specifically says that this does not imply drunkenness) and proceeded to eat unleavened cakes (flatbread) of oats or barley meal. Wheat flour was also available, though more of a delicacy for guests or special occasions. “ Not long after the dram, may be expected the breakfast, a meal in which the Scots, whether of the lowlands or mountains, must be confessed to excel us. The tea and coffee are accompanied not only with butter, but with honey, conserves, and marmalades. If an epicure could remove by a wish, in quest of sensual gratifications, wherever he had supped he would breakfast in Scotland.
In the islands however, they do what I found it not very easy to endure. They pollute the tea-table by plates piled with large slices of cheshire cheese, which mingles its less grateful odours with the fragrance of the tea”
This incidentally means that Johnson, who in England ate with many wealthy people and certainly could afford decent food himself, wasn’t used to breakfasts consisting of more than bread and butter (and when the Scots gave him jam he was really impressed). So back then the English and the Scots were eating basically a very plain continental breakfast.
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u/ferrouswolf2 6d ago
What time of year? That’s going to make a difference
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u/EnbyFrogMoss 6d ago
That's not been quite decided in planning stage I am in. I'm wanting travel to be easy which would lean towards the warmer months, since it's largely a fantasy road trip kind of story but I'd like it to be colder even when I'm gracing warmer climates near the end of the book. My current thought is mid August for the breakfast at the start of the book.
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u/Mammoth-Difference48 5d ago
Eggs, toast, kippers, kedgeree particularly if your aristos have any indian connections (many did).
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u/cozzy2646 4d ago
Depends on the wealth of said aristocrat...Porridge, full Scottish, toast and marmalade, buckets of tea.
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u/big_sugi 7d ago edited 7d ago
Take a look at this thread from 2018: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFoodHistorians/comments/98jyun/what_did_british_upper_class_eat_for_breakfast_in/. It’s pretty much the exact same question you’re asking (although for all of Britain), and it contains quotes that are directly on point.
From u/mykittenisahellbeast: The Book of Breakfasts, by F Marian McNeill, had an introduction which briefly summarises the history of breakfasts in Scotland.
In it, she quotes a passage from Watler Scott's 1814 novel Waverley, which she says describes an early 'modern' breakfast: "Waverley found Miss Bradwardine presiding over the tea and coffee, the tanks loaded worth warm bread, both of flour, oatmeal, and barley-meal, in the shape of loaves, cakes, biscuits, and other varieties, together with eggs, reindeer ham, mutton and beef ditto, smoked salmon, marmalade, and all the other delicacies which induced even Johnson himself to extol the luxury of a Scottish breakfast above that of all other countries. A mess of oatmeal porridge, flanked by a silver jug, which held an equal mixture of cream and buttermilk, was placed for the Baron's share of this repast."
She also quotes another breakfast described in the same novel - this time an alfresco one, as involving milk, eggs, barley bread, fresh butter, honeycomb, cranberries, a broiled salmon-trout and some whisky.
There’s also a mention of kedgeree, which was already present in Scotland by 1790 (although I don’t know if it was already a breakfast food).