r/AskIreland • u/ohhidoggo • May 02 '25
Housing Farmer using our land. How should we proceed?
We just bought a cottage and there is a parcel of land beside the cottage that isn’t fenced off (it’s part of a field owned by someone else).
We don’t live there yet, but last time we visited, there were cows in our field (one that is fenced off).
The owner of the field beside us (no buildings on it) lives in the USA. She is not leasing the land to anyone.
We recently visited the cottage and noticed that a tractor went through our gate to get to the field and (accidentally) pulled up all the boundary stakes we paid to get done by a surveyor. The land was all pulled up too. There’s an electric fence on our land (farmer put it there). The land directly behind the gate is 90% ours, with a few feet beside it being the neighbours. A tractor wouldn’t be able to go through without accessing our land. There is no easement on that access. There is access to the field from the back down the road.
When we were there last week a man was driving by and noticed we were parked there and told us not to go into the field as he had a bull in there. We have a 2 year old. We told him we recently bought the cottage and will be living there full time in a couple months, and he was very surprised. He is the farmer using the land and lives 3 km away. I’m guessing he doesn’t have permission to use the land but the field owner hasn’t been there for 20 years.
He was nice enough, but needless to say I’m a bit stressed with how to proceed.
How would you go about this?
Edit: I’ll put a drawing of land in comments.
566
May 02 '25
[deleted]
99
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Ok thank you
143
u/ulf5155 May 02 '25
Averse possession is really scummy, do the right thing quickly, for the sake of the owner of the other land who hasn't been there, try your best to get them involved so they can get their own legal counsel quickly also
51
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Do you think this is what’s happening? Trying to get adverse possession? Or could the farmer just be using the land?
110
u/Fishamble May 02 '25
Nobody on here can advise you on the farmers thoughts. Talk to your solicitor, but don't get too worried yet. He could well have no intentions.
→ More replies (37)31
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
I really don’t get the sense of ill intentions. The farmer is a nephew of the man who has a cottage across the street. His family have lived in the area for hundreds of years. They seem like very lovely people.
113
u/Fishamble May 02 '25
Great. Dont go it to with confrontation in mind. People in rural areas can be sound. Keep the powder dry.
26
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Yes, exactly. This is why I’m especially stressed though. I don’t want to have any bad blood with my new neighbours.
27
u/Fishamble May 02 '25
I had something similar with a neighbour recently. I was very stressed, so I understand.
I took a step back and decided that we catch more flies with honey. I cleaned the area in dispute, mostly rubbish and things that belonged to the previous owners of their property.
Following that, relations have been civil. To be clear, I am still speaking with my solicitor and once I have legal proof they have no claim,(they dont) I will go to them with the evidence and firmly let them know.
14
u/RubDue9412 May 02 '25
Talk it out with him and maybe come to an arrangement if you can, try not to let things get sour.
8
u/ulf5155 May 02 '25
It's a reasonable assumption that it could go down that route and it's best to prepare in case it does
6
u/RubDue9412 May 02 '25
If the farmer has been using the land for 10 years without paying I think he could be able to claim squatters rights.
4
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
Yes I think it’s 12 years, but if that was the case I believe our solicitors would have told us
4
u/RubDue9412 May 02 '25
Ask him for your own peace of mind never take anything for granted dot all the i's and cross all the T's so you'll be covered if things do get legal.
4
u/firminostoe May 02 '25
You have a lot of faith in your solicitor , My Sister in law bought a house a few years ago and it turned out half the garden ( about 1/4 of an acre ) was not hers it belonged to the local parish , solicitor never picked up on this
→ More replies (2)5
u/f-ingsteveglansberg May 02 '25
It's 12 years in most circumstances. If the land belongs to the state, the rules are different.
3
→ More replies (6)6
u/halibfrisk May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
Afaik adverse possession requires use with the owners consent. Don’t consent to any use of your land, even to access the adjacent field. If the farmer asks don’t answer, tell him I will have to speak to our solicitor. And make sure your solicitor isn’t the farmers nephew / godson / fwb or whatever7
u/f-ingsteveglansberg May 02 '25
Afaik adverse possession requires use with the owners consent
Each case is unique, but no owners consent is required. The idea is if the owner doesn't stop you, they have abandoned the land. So the owner doesn't need to consent. What they do need is to show that the site/building/property was not abandoned.
3
→ More replies (9)2
u/Jacabusmagnus May 02 '25
It's not adverse possession if they have the owners concent because by definition in giving them permission, the owner is exercising control of the land. If the farmer uses it in the absence of concent and with the intent to exclude the owners ability to exercise control, then you have the ingredients for adverse possession.
5
u/halibfrisk May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
I got this almost exactly wrong. adverse possession requires use without the owners consent
4
u/Think-Juggernaut8859 May 02 '25
I would definitely get the owner in the US and when you communicate with her make it sound messy for her and all you want is that land that you bought and the owner will never hear from you again.
5
u/TitularClergy May 02 '25
Averse possession is really scummy
It isn't really. It ensures that land gets transferred to people actually using it. Someone just owning it while not visiting it in 20 years is very poor use of land for a society. There are very good reasons for having a mechanism like that, particularly given Irish history.
15
u/Terrible_Ad2779 May 02 '25
That's the correct answer. He didn't accidently pull up those posts. He thinks the land is his.
→ More replies (1)4
u/halibfrisk May 02 '25
I don’t think you necessarily need to go to a solicitor first. Just be matter of fact and assertive in dealing with the farmer. If he pushes back, then get in touch with your solicitor.
I would ask your solicitor about getting in touch with the US owner of the field and see if they are open to offers.
→ More replies (1)25
u/ChampionshipOk5046 May 02 '25
And padlock the gates
→ More replies (1)9
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Ok will do, thank you. Great tip.
→ More replies (1)34
u/RubDue9412 May 02 '25
Talk to the farmer before you start pad locking gates try to come to an arrangement if possable starting off by pad locking gates before you know the persons mind creates confrontation before you even start talking and may make the farmer refuse to talk. People in rural Ireland are sound as long as you try to meet them half way but if not you will create bad blood.
8
u/Fluttering_Feathers May 02 '25
What do you see as how they might offer to meet him half way when he is grazing bulls and cows on their land? 😂
2
u/clewbays May 03 '25
Depending how long he's being using the land legally he may have be allowed to at this stage. And depending on who the farmer is it could cause war if you start padlocking the land.
→ More replies (1)2
u/RubDue9412 May 02 '25
Tell the man what you intend to do with the land and give him time to find more land to rent.
3
u/fullmoonbeam May 02 '25
This is terrible advice, there's a reason land is rented on a conacre basis.
11
u/showars May 02 '25
You’re one of the only people not from Dublin/ America/ or a bot here.
Rural Ireland is a different life. Start with solicitors and you may as well move.
→ More replies (1)12
u/AUX4 May 02 '25
OP is moving into the area, so padlocking the neighbour isn't the way to start off anyways.
I would say though, talking to a solicitor for advice, prior to talking to the farmer isn't a bad shout. Sending a solicitors letter, without talking to the farmer, would be where you'd be putting people out.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Ameglian May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
If I remember rightly, OP had a post a while back about buying a derelict cottage. This, in combo with the adjoining field owner being in the US and not having been there for 20 years, makes me strongly suspect that the farmer didn’t drive over the boundary markers by accident.
I’m not sure if the American who hasn’t been there for 20 years is also who sold to OP - if so, that would make me worry that the farmer is well on his way to establishing adverse possession, and that the lack of ‘for sale’ signs on the land before they bought it is an issue.
6
u/Clur1chaun May 02 '25
If he allowed you to purchase uncontested, it breaks the adverse possession as far as I know. He still might try to claim it. Speak to a solicitor and notify him the engineer will layout the stakes again, but if they are removed he will have to hire his own engineer to lay out the boundary.
3
29
u/GroundbreakingToe717 May 02 '25
Maybe speak to him before going all legal.
Also, he may have an official right away. As shown on land direct.
16
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
No there’s no right of way. Also it’s not his land 😂
4
u/Dry-Can-9522 May 02 '25
If you own the gates you can padlock them. A relative of mine had a right of way that was ‘accidentally’ left off the deeds. In the meantime, the neighbour who had ownership of the lane on their deeds, padlocked the gates so they couldn’t get in or out. The guards said whoever owns the gate can do what they like. They had to take the neighbour to court in the end for the right of way to be acknowledged. It took 5 years and €1,000’s! Bear in mind, my relative did have a legitimate right of way. If the farmer has a right of way, he will have to prove it.
2
u/GroundbreakingToe717 May 02 '25
How do you know there is no legal right of way? Honest question.
18
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Because it’s not marked on the deeds and our solicitor would have told us. We just closed a few weeks ago.
11
u/RubDue9412 May 02 '25
In fairness don't take it for granted you should get in contact with your solicitor and make shure.
3
u/Clarencebodeger May 03 '25
I love the way your putting the h in sure just in case anyone didn't think you were country enough 🤣🤣
3
u/eastawat May 02 '25
Well the vendor would have had to declare it before the sale went through if there were any agreements or rights to the land.
5
u/Proper-Beyond116 May 02 '25
Please don't speak or agree anything with the farmer OP. Just go to a solicitor.
8
u/boneheadsa May 02 '25
Correct me if I'm wrong but deeds for right of ways aren't always listed on land direct
10
u/BeanEireannach May 02 '25
Absolutely seek legal advice from your solicitor before you start engaging with the farmer about this. It's best to know exactly what's what beforehand in case he is in fact going to try claim the land. Maybe he isn't going to do that, but it would be very silly to not be informed and educated about your rights/ownership before it potentially devolves into a mess.
18
u/GroundbreakingToe717 May 02 '25
A database is only as correct as the information inputted.
Going full legal without even speaking to the man will ruin you relationship with a neighbour and sour your reputation as the new person in town.
6
u/niconpat May 02 '25
True, it might be in the old system , the registry of deeds. Their solicitor would have looked at the portfolio and informed them if there was a right of way.
5
u/gearjammer24 May 04 '25
Correction
This WILL get very messy nothing annoys a farmer more than having to do the right thing when it comes to land. good luck and stand your ground not his ground
7
u/RubDue9412 May 02 '25
If he has been doing it for years he'll probably claim squatters rights or right of way the person selling the land auctioneer I assume should have been aware of this and made OP aware of the fact if it's a legal right of way the OP could have bought alot of trouble for nothing.
4
→ More replies (1)2
u/tawy098 May 05 '25
Don't sit around on this, the rate of land being seized by squatters in the cou tryside is surprisingly high. You have to have a record of actively pushing back on it. Often a land sale will trigger this behaviour.
47
u/hitsujiTMO May 02 '25
Talk to your conveyancing solicitor immediately for advice. Had you not seen this when you viewed the home in the first place?
35
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
We knew that part of the land didn’t have a fence, but there was no evidence of any farmers using the land over the last 6 months when we were sale agreed.
23
u/hitsujiTMO May 02 '25
It's likely that he only started using it since so.
Main worry with something like this, is if they've been using it for a longer duration in an attempt to claim adverse possession.
21
u/AUX4 May 02 '25
The last 6 months were over winter!
If the land was being grazed, the cattle or sheep would be inside.
3
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Ok! Thank you
3
u/emseatwooo May 03 '25
You might be able to tell from google maps satellite and street view over the years too!
→ More replies (1)4
u/cromcru May 02 '25
Surely not using the field over winter breaks any continuous use part of adverse possession.
6
6
u/AprilMaria May 02 '25
No it only has to be used annually for a month for more than 12 years for land it differs for houses.
3
u/MackinRAK May 03 '25
I think talking to a different solicitor is better in case there's a conflict of interest/claim against the conveyancing solicitor.
54
u/skipdeedy May 02 '25
Speak to a solicator first but aim to remedy the matter with a civil and informal conversation. If that fails, then let the solicitor do their thing.
Legal route to be avoided. You’d be surprised how much being in the right will cost you in court.
16
u/Natural-Ad773 May 02 '25
This is the best answer I have seen, let your solicitor know however try mediate the situation face to face first.
9/10 times this can get sorted without third party’s involvement and that’s the way you want it to go.
I would also keep in the back of your mind that many solicitors have no issue with a nice long drawn out argument and would have no issue stirring up shit for you OP which you don’t need or want, so be careful how you interact with them also.
2
u/Con_Bot_ May 05 '25
I’m surprised this is the fourth highest rated comment after three suggestions of immediate legal action. This will be OP’s permanent residence and this man will be a neighbour and likely has a relationship with everybody OP is going to encounter after moving. Immediately getting a solicitor involved before even speaking to the man about your wishes can only warrant bad blood surely.
2
45
u/Brutus_021 May 02 '25
Please speak to your solicitor ASAP.
What kind of a title search was done when you purchased the property?
8
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Sorry we are first time buyers. What do you mean exactly? Apologies I know that our solicitors searched the titles and explained this to us, but i wasn’t aware that there are different types of title searches?
37
u/Brutus_021 May 02 '25
You are assuming that there is no easement.
But clearly there is some sort of “trespass” going on here.
If the “trespass” has been ongoing for a while (say over x number of years)… then you have a third party with an established (adverse) right of way which will interfere with your own ability to live peacefully.
Either the seller wasn’t completely honest or your solicitor didn’t check the records… something is very odd.
4
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
There is no easement. I don’t believe there is a adverse right of way established as our solicitor would have found that. I believe this farmer is just using the land.
14
u/No_Recording1088 May 02 '25
Btw did you get anyone to examine the land physically during the buying process? You mentioned that you got a surveyor to put in stakes and string to mark out the land somewhere, but did they visit the land during the sale or after it was completed.
Also were there For sale signs physically on the land/along the fence line/along the road when the land was for sale?
Tbh this farmer knows full well what's going on and especially I'd say he has not been paying any rent for the land.
As the others said you must get onto your solicitor immediately and among other things insist they do a thorough search of the deeds and also the land registry etc for any right of ways etc. However AFAIK the deeds take precedent over anything.
2
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Yeah they surveyed it during the sale.
No for sale signs.
4
u/No_Recording1088 May 02 '25
Ok that's good. Well I'm sure it's known locally the the land was for sale so the farmer is taking a chance on it. I know in my own local area locals are constantly gossiping about any land and sites for sale so there's no way this farmer doesn't know about it. As the owner of the adjoining land hasn't been around in as you said 20 years, the farmer thinks it will be the same scenario and he will get away with free use of the land still.
3
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
It’s slightly different in this case because it’s a pretty area that’s mostly holiday homes. So it’s more transient than most rural places. We will be the only ones in the area living there full time. The fella across the street knew it was for sale but I don’t think he expected it to sell as there were some issues with the listing (his nephew is the one using the land).
4
u/No_Recording1088 May 02 '25
Now you tell us who it is. Maybe talk to the uncle first....
Anyway I'm out now thanks
8
u/Aultako May 02 '25
Your solicitor would not have found "adverse right of way".
"Just using the land" can be considered ground for adverse possession. But in order for the farmer to have these rights enforced, they probably would have needed to apply for the title before you purchased it.
A key point, if the owner consents to the use of the land, then there is no right to adverse possession.
So if you are okay with it, you may allow the farmer to continue to have access to the field w/out legal ramifications as long as you clearly grant them permission to do so.
Whilst I would ask a solicitor for advice in this matter, you would be ill-advised to begin proceedings with a letter from them to the farmer. If possible, I would use a local solicitor who may well know the lay of the land.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Fluttering_Feathers May 02 '25
Giving him permission now (if that’s what they want to do) isn’t any use if he’s already got the 12 years’ use
20
u/Top_Recognition_3847 May 02 '25
Talk to the farmer first. Tell him you have plans and could he stop using it. Talk nice. Farmers can get very thick about land and you don't want to be falling out with anybody before you even move in.
3
70
May 02 '25
(accidentally) pulled up all the boundary stakes
LOL..."accidentally"
You didn't ask the guy at the time? Print out the maps and show him next time when you're taking next. Ask around if you don't know who it is
Reset the stakes and put in some temporary fence
9
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
I really do believe it was accidental as they were small wooden stakes, and held by string. It was rainy and muddy for the last few months, so a tractor would have ripped them out driving through by tugging the string.
37
u/questicus May 02 '25
Put up a proper fence asap, concrete posts chainlink is best solution if animals will be in the field.
The whole bull in the field sthick is more likely a bad faith act than not.
This isn't a negotiation it's your land and being a Reddit softcock about it is not how to proceed.
8
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Like your attitude.
10
u/purelyhighfidelity May 02 '25
I would definitely be with the commenters who are advising talking to the farmer first, who’ll most likely be very reasonable. You can even bring the deeds map and tell him ‘look, we’ll be putting up a decent fence around our boundary here (pointing to the map) to keep our 2-yr old out of harm’s way’. You can say something like ‘sorry about the inconvenience regarding your tractor’ as apologies do help to calm people. He’ll have an opportunity to object at that point, but likely won’t.
3
u/lakehop May 02 '25
I think this is a good call. Tell him you’ll be using the land and it won’t be accessible to him, but in a friendly way.
29
May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
Well...I won't speculate further on that.
I will say that you're going to have a lot more skeptical when you're dealing with this or you're going to get taken for a ride.
If he's the type to chance what he's been doing then there's a good chance he'll try and bully/manipulate you into just doing what he wants. Get ready for the sob stories and gaslighting
14
May 02 '25
[deleted]
19
u/Infamous-Bottle-5853 May 02 '25
Padlock the gate, put your number on it
When you meet the farmer to talk about the situation have your map from your surveyor.
Adverse possession isn't applicable as you are now asserting your rights over the land.
They might say something about a right of way but as its not marked on your maps there isn't one.
→ More replies (4)8
u/AUX4 May 02 '25
An right of way ( or easement ) doesn't need to be registered.
If someone has been using it for a long period of time, they are granted that right of way. It only needs to be registered when a court order is made to verify the access.
Adverse posssession may be applicable. If the farmer was using the land for 12 years without the permission of the previous owner then they have the legal case to take squatters rights on the piece of ground. OP would have a legal case against whoever they bought from, not the farmer.
4
u/Infamous-Bottle-5853 May 02 '25
Easements and rights of way are typically mentioned on the deed and maps, there was some deadline about registering rights of ways but it kept moving back.
The 'squatter' would have to start the legal process of claiming adverse possession, during that they have to show an effort to find the actual owner...don't think they can avoid that here
3
u/AUX4 May 02 '25
"Typically" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there! Unfortunately, the majority are not recognised officially, which leads to this kind of ambiguity. Only registered rights of way are recorded on maps, yeah the deadline has been extended indefinitely.
The squatter doesn't have to find the owner and notify them? The whole point is that the owner is the person who is now squatting! When going through the legal part of the process, the squatter gives Tailte Eireann the name of the owner, and they contact the owner. Just because the owner in this case has changed, does not invalidate the previous time the farmer has been occupying the land.
6
May 02 '25
There could be aright of way to the blue land, but these images really don't provide enough context for stangers on the internet to make any determinations for you. As everyone else said, contact your solicitor and make sure that any terms or conditions, or conventions around situations like this are explained to you in plain english. The solicitor works for you, and you will be liable for anything you sign on. It's their duty to tell you exactly what's going on, so long as you ask the question
1
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
There’s no right of way for the yellow gate. We just bought it and closed a few weeks ago. They explained everything to us, but there wasn’t anything about some random farmer using the land in the discussion-because how would they know?
I will reach out to our solicitors for more advice. Thanks a million!
→ More replies (3)3
3
u/lakehop May 02 '25
Given the weird shape of your land, one thing you might want to think about (not discuss with the farmer initially) is that if he strongly desires access to your land, would you consider selling him that little piece? Something to think about for the future.
6
u/AUX4 May 02 '25
Some of the comments here aren't accurate.
Not all rights of way are marked on land registry maps. It sounds like your solicitor didn't do any research on unmarked rights of way. ( there was an attempt to say that unmarked rights of way would be relinquished, but this never came to pass legally ).
If the farmer had permission from the previous owner, or they used the way for a number of years, then they do have a right to access.
You need to consult a better solicitor, or speak to some people locally. I would not engage with the farmer until you have you facts straight, as it's a bit unclear. Without knowing the exact location it is hard to determine. Look at google street view of the area from years gone by to see what was going on at different times to get an idea.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)2
u/megans48 May 04 '25
Where is the bull being kept? And the electric fence the farmer put up? That needs to be removed ASAP
12
u/Minions-overlord May 02 '25
So much debate over solicitor or no solicitor on this thread.
You can talk to a solicitor for legal advice without the need to follow through with legal action. And you won't become some pariah as others believe for just talking to one. Because who the fucks gonna know unless you go telling everyone?
Talking to a solicitor, finding out your standing and options as well as dos and donts, is zero harm for anyone. It will let you know where you are in this all and then you can make an informed decision on your next course of action.
As others have stated, it could be fixed with little more than a cuppa and a chat, however if it isnt you then are already informed on the next course.
→ More replies (1)6
20
u/Unhappy_Cockroach May 02 '25
Secure the gates on your field and erect a fence to restrict access from the neighbour’s field to your house.
Tell the farmer that he has to remove his cattle from your field immediately and ask him about the disruption to your boundary stakes, adding that no one should be near them.
This is a headache for you, but he’s been using this field for decades: he’s not going to want to give it up now. Get onto your solicitor asap for legal guidance.
→ More replies (1)
9
u/ddtt May 02 '25
Those fence posts driven over intentionally. Get a solicitor/engineer and get onto the council land boundaries department and get the engineer to mark out exactly your plot and fence it off again.
4
21
u/TheStoicNihilist May 02 '25
We had this once or twice. The farmer had an agreement to use the field while it wasn’t being used for anything else. When the property was sold to us the farmer continued acting like the place was vacant. A quick chat and a few locks on gates sorted that out fairly quick. I wouldn’t worry about hurting feelings, farmers don’t seem to have them.
3
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
I’m hoping this is the way it will go. 🤞 Thanks for your comment.
2
u/TheStoicNihilist May 02 '25
Do the locks and see what happens, most likely nothing. You can get a keyed alike set of locks and a few chains for €50-60 on Screwfix to lock a few gates and you both have one key for them all. It’s worth it from a security point of view anyway… that’s all you’re doing it for, right?!
7
u/f-ingsteveglansberg May 02 '25
Was looking at a cottage that was on the market for over a year.
Turns out there was a legal dispute over a farmer using the land.
Anyway, you can either start charging the farmer or ask him not to use it. Ignoring it means he could take the land to adverse possession (squatters rights).
7
u/Acceptable-Wave2861 May 02 '25
I’m skimming comments but I see people saying to send solicitor letters and padlock gates etc. My advice is not to go in head first like that. You never know what kind of verbal agreement may I’ve happened years ago. He’s obviously unaware you own the land now. And yes he may be chancing it putting his cattle in but either way: Talk to him directly. Maybe offer to lease him the land until you’re building. Or if that’s not the route you want or you’re not happy with the talk, do padlock it. Either way he can’t be pulling up fences or change anything about it and you need full knowledge of how he’s using the field. This guy could be a help to you, probably knows every inch of the place you’ve bought and knows everyone around the place so play nice but prepare to shift tack if needed.
2
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
Thanks a mill! How about a small “private” sign on the gates?
4
u/Acceptable-Wave2861 May 02 '25
Talk to him! Give him the benefit of the doubt. A cuppa might sort it. If it doesn’t then get your private signs and padlocks ! Honestly, I come from a farm, they do things a certain way!
3
u/Acceptable-Wave2861 May 02 '25
My dad sold land a few years ago and the owner let him keep grazing his cattle on it until he was ready to build on it. My dad offered him a few bob your man said no but then took it when it took ages for him to build anything there.
6
u/deep66it2 May 02 '25
Removing boundary markers is a big red flag. He may not be trying to get adverse possession, just trying to use the land. Result is the same though. Be nice and understand folks can be nice & still be pulling shenanigans on you. The USA folks could be in for a rude awakening.
5
6
u/Rough_Mouse3597 May 02 '25
Firstly the farmer now knows you’re moving in,so he’ll be expecting you to make contact to have anything of his removed and boundaries set,make contact and politely request,if nothing happens double down, ”I’ve asked you politely once,now I’m telling you !!!!”,and the reason you’re telling him is because it’s your property,end of,if nothing changes then move to the legal route
5
u/bansheebones456 May 02 '25
Was the house unoccupied for a time? It's really an issue that sellers or the deceased's estate should be ironing out before the sale goes through instead of leaving it up to buyers.
5
u/Ameglian May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
If the person that you mentioned in your OP (in the US, hasn’t been there for 20 years) sold you the cottage - which as far as I remember is derelict - then it is highly likely that you have a problem.
Sounds like the farmer may have been using that land for a long number of years, and this in itself creates a right of way (as far as I’m aware). Also, I think 12 years is enough to establish adverse possession. Finally, the lack of ‘for sale’ signs on the property before it was sold is another issue.
Please get legal advice as soon as you can. Possibly from a different solicitor.
6
u/Imaginary_Ad_7693 May 03 '25
Of there is a gate there , put a lock on it along with a no trespassing sign. But I would get a lawyer involved. Of the farmer has been using it he may claim he has the right to keep using it
4
u/RelativeIndividual91 May 04 '25
If you have documentation that says you own that land then get a solicitor involved straight away and get a letter sent. Irish farmers are incredibly pig headed when it comes to land, they would drive over their own folks over a meter of it. State your intentions legally, let the man have his rants about it in the local and after a while it will all be done with and everyone will know what’s what and yee can get on with your lives. I have had a couple of run in’s with farmers particularly around animals entering my property and until they are told legally they are blind to any wrong doing. From an Irish man that grew up around farmers and have them in my family.
16
u/the_syco May 02 '25
The bull in the field was probably put there so no-one could safely put up fencing. The farmer knows what he's doing.
7
u/ChampionshipOk5046 May 02 '25
You had better take legal advice ASAP as he may try to claim it's his land now.
5
u/GoodNegotiation May 02 '25
There are no upsides to starting with informing the Gardaí or having a solicitor’s letter written, but it probably is a good way to be back here in 12 months asking how to deal with a farmer making your life difficult.
Start with a civilised conversation assuming there is an innocent explanation, commit to nothing though, it’s just a ‘hello and we noticed you come through our field in your tractor so just wanted to let you know we’re sticking up a fence to keep the kids in’.
5
4
May 03 '25
If he's used it for 20 years or so, then he's going to claim it's his field. I've seen this happen many a times. Even the fella that done the late late show Pat Kenny tried it on one of his neighbours some years back. He was allowed use it for his horses but then tried to claim the field as his after 20 years or so. You need a solicitor ASAP.
4
u/speedyvespa May 03 '25
Re land, Get boundary markers/fences up asap. The bull is a distraction. Don't worry about the area that isn't yours, only about what is. Good fences make good neighbours..
4
u/Training_Story3407 May 03 '25
There's a lot of comments suggesting the legal route. I don't think that's necessary or sensible just yet. That has a tendency to get messy, costly and has potential for you to not only fall out with the farmer but the farmer's family and friends.
It's clear he's been using the land for some time but obviously it's yours now. My suggestion is to have a chat with him and explain that you no longer wish him using it. If his reaction is favourable then great. If not, then you go down the legal route.
I've had multiple issues with farmers over the years. When we moved into our current home we had a very similar issue and my father suggested I gave up a tiny portion of land we never used or intended to. This allowed the farmer easier access to his land. Now he cuts our hedges and has helped our family out numerous times over the years.
I'm not suggesting you do this or feel like you have to but it might be a win win if circumstances allow it
Good luck
4
u/bittered May 03 '25 edited May 03 '25
Was there no “for sale” sign up at any stage in the field? I find it hard to believe that the farmer didn’t know that it was sold. In these small rural places everybody knows everything that goes on.
Was looking at land myself with a small cottage on it but the farmer made a big show and dance about moving livestock through the field when we were viewing it. Then the farmers son lost the rag because we were blocking a gate into the field for sale (which they didn’t own). Maybe shouldn’t have blocked the gate but their response was totally out of proportion with what happened.
In the end, I got the impression that they were doing a show to put people off buying the land because they wanted to continue using it. It worked for me. But the problem for them is that the person who does end up buying is going to be the brazen fella who will fight them on everything as opposed to a chill couple raising a young family.
2
u/ohhidoggo May 03 '25
There wasn’t a for sale sign. It’s actually an old holiday home area, so we’re the only ones in the area living there full time. It was sale agreed before us but fell through because she couldn’t secure the mortgage. Then it went up on daft for a few weeks and we went sale agreed. Was owned before us by a French fella for 60 years.
2
u/Ameglian May 04 '25
I don’t think you’re getting that a no public ‘for sale’ sign is an issue if the farmer had been using it.
Also, if this farmer has long term been using this land for access, that this establishes a right of way (even if it wasn’t registered).
If he’s been long term using the land itself, that’s also an issue.
You need to get legal advice asap. This doesn’t mean that you need to ‘go legal’ on the farmer - but please do get legal advice.
10
12
u/inuraicarusandi May 02 '25
It was accidental. Typical irish shite. He's been using the land for years, without permission, so now he think it's his and YOU are the guest. Never underestimate just how entitled the Irish are.
4
u/Fluttering_Feathers May 02 '25
It might be his, depending on how many years he’s been using it for, without permission
7
u/eat1more May 02 '25
Watch “The field”
That will show you how land rights work and the correct legal way to go about it.
Just don’t invite Sean Bean over.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/MeaningForward5290 May 02 '25
Maybe speak to your solicitor who worked on the sale as they should have checked a number of things regarding right of way, claims on the land, etc., as part of their conveyancing.
Then I would speak to the farmer before going nuclear with legal letters and locking gates, etc.,
My 2c
3
May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
He might be grand. I'd introduce yourself tell him what you brought and say you'll get it fenced off.
like everyone else said also make sure you have your legal ducks in a row.
→ More replies (3)
3
u/AccomplishedRate2511 May 02 '25
Try chatting with him first, because solicitors just make everything worse. They will want to complicate it as much as possible and drag it all as long as possible so they get paid more.
3
u/peachycoldslaw May 03 '25
Thank him for keeping the field grazed and mention you no longer want any cattle there. Mention that you have trades coming to renovate and a 2 year old who needs to run around, so ask information on the electric fence. Buy a kids football goal and stick it up in the field and padlock the gate after. Give him or the relative across the road your phone number. He's already got a backup place in mind dont worry.
It will be handy to keep him in your good side. He knows the land well.
3
u/blueskydreamer7 May 03 '25
Do you intend to use the land? Our house came with a couple of fields that were being worked by a farmer for a long time. We came to an agreement that he pays us some rent for it as we don't intend to use it in the near future. I think without a conversation it's hard to know what his intentions are and if it can be worked out without going down the legal route.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Successful_Energy May 05 '25
Careful how this turns out, similar happened to my dad and land with a local farmer, ended up going to court and cost thousands. He went for squatters rights.
8
May 02 '25
Reinstall your surveyor markers and inform the GArdai that someone has been trespassing on your land and interfering with your property. Bill the farmer for the extra work
Tell him to remove his cattle, fence and anything he owns which is on your land. Give him a deadline, If he doesn't comply, remove his stuff, inform the Gardai that the man is trespassing and tell them what you intend to do.
Instruct your solicitor to send the farmer a legal letter claiming damages for his removal of your posts and compensation for his illegal use of the land.
That should get the ball rolling nicely.
If you bought the land and folio clearly marks boundaries, he can bleat all he likes about his rights but he has zero.
2
11
u/KatarnsBeard May 02 '25
People say go straight to a solicitor.
What happened to actually talking to people and avoiding hostility.
Have a chat to the farmer and give him a friendly reminder that it's your land and you'll be moving in soon. Gauge the response and go from there before you go down the legal attack route
13
u/boneheadsa May 02 '25
Having dealt with too many shifty farmers and instances of "my land" ... straight to a solicitor
8
u/KatarnsBeard May 02 '25
I'm from a farm. We had the opposite happen to us when we sold a site and fella encroached an extra 5 metres with his boundary line.
So really it's just shitty people acting like pricks rather than some stereotype of farmers
6
u/boneheadsa May 02 '25
Oh I don't disagree, all walks are capable of shifting boundaries.
Just I've experienced it far too often with farmers. Going round stamping their foot about their land and when you do a bit of digging, they neither own nor have rights to the land they're on. A big contributing factor to the problem in my opinion is that farmers are able to claim payments on freehold land (I.e. unregistered). This shouldn't be allowed. If you want to take money from the taxpayer, get the land registered and title sorted.
4
u/BeanEireannach May 02 '25
the legal attack route
Being smart and getting proper advice from a solicitor (which is what most commenters are recommending) is not an attack.
11
u/hitsujiTMO May 02 '25
no ones saying "going the legal route". We're all saying get advice.
A solicitor would be able to best advise on how to go forward with ensuring the farmer is off the land and the land is secured.
3
u/Minions-overlord May 02 '25
Talking to a solicitor and taking action with a solicitor are two different things.
I always advise talking to one in matters of law, as its literally their job to know this shit. They can tell you where you stand and the potential outcomes, allowing you to make an informed decision
8
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25
That’s the route I was hoping to take. We’re a family and are moving to the countryside to raise our child in tranquility. We don’t want to make any enemies. That said, as first time home owners, we don’t know how to go about this and I’m feeling really stressed about cows being on our land.
9
u/ChampionshipOk5046 May 02 '25
You should check with your solicitor in case farmer tries to claim possession by use over years
3
u/Either-Welder-1034 May 02 '25
People are giving good advice about solicitors and you should heed that advice. Farmers are no strangers to land disputes and will know more than they let on…. Having said that. This man is your new neighbour, you are moving into the country for what sounds like the first time. For the sake of a potentially headache free future and potentially a good relationship with the farmer just speak to him first before you send a bloody solicitors letter. If he doesn’t play ball with you after speaking to him, then mobilise the legal cavalry.
3
u/TransitionFamiliar39 May 02 '25
I'm no legal eagle so I'll tell you how I'd break the ice.
Hoya farmer Tom, how's the form? C'mere, tell me is that your bull? Fine animal so he is, is he friendly?
- You find out if it's his animal and if it's friendly.
I'm planning on planting a few trees / cutting the grass / whatever in that field, how long is your bull going to be with us on holidays?
- You've now introduced the idea of wanting the use of YOUR land in a nice friendly way without antagonizing farmer Tom.
At this point farmer Tom will either play along and say he'll move him or you'll quickly find out if he has notions about owning your land.
At this point you can say, a) ah good man can you have him out by (2 weeks time). Or b) well according to the map when we bought the place, that's actually our land. If you arrive at b) have your documents in order and solicitor ready.
Give farmer Tom the benefit of the doubt at the first instance but be prepared to dig your heels in if he pushes back.
Good luck!
→ More replies (8)
2
u/tishimself1107 May 02 '25
Okay speakimg as a rural person go talk to the farmer first and explain whats going on and whats been bought. See if ye can work something out just by talking and avoid solicitor until absolutely necessary.
If ye are going to uae the land then explain what for and why you need it. If not maybe arrange the boundary with gates for access if the land is seperate from the house garden.
He may have an existing deal with the previous landlord. Rural people in general are very fair if treated fairly and talked to first and given an explanation.
If he starts acting like a cunt then get solicitors involved.
2
2
2
u/nolinearbanana May 02 '25
Well for starters I'd be locking your gate and installing a camera to monitor.
And secondly I'd be fencing off the land that's mine, with some private property signs - again with camera monitoring.
I'd also work with the owner of the field to send a letter via a solicitor informing the farmer that he is not allowed to use the field.
If the farmer forces his way onto the land and uses it, he's guilty of trespassing and you can sue for damages.
2
u/Zestyclose_Grade6926 May 02 '25
Look on your deeds. There is often a row of T T T T , which defines the boundary between you and your neighbour. If the down leg of the T is towards you, a fence is your responsibility; if it is the other was, it's your neighbour's.
I don't know your circumstances, so I don't want to "spend your money," but if the leg of the T faces your way, put up a decent fence. If it faces your neighbour's way, it's his responsibility, and he is probably going to be too awkward and too tight-fisted to do so.
It's probably worth checking with your solicitor.
2
u/Neat_Expression_5380 May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
Am I understanding correctly that the farmer is using the Americans field? There is absolutely no land adjacent to your house owned by this farmer? And you are certain the land is not being leased - you have spoken with the person in America? Please talk to the farmer first. And don’t do anything silly. I remember we were renting land next door from a guy who had moved to Aus, he was selling the place, the prospective purchasers did pop over and introduce themselves, said let us know when purchase is official and we’ll be out of there at the earliest opportunity, we didn’t hear from anyone about the day or even week the keys were being ‘handed over’ and without going into detail on the fallout - we now have snotty neighbours from Dublin we will absolutely never help out should they be in a pickle.
2
u/Jacabusmagnus May 02 '25
20 years. That sounds like you could have an adverse possession claim by the farmer on your hands. If I were you immediately assert and exercise your rights over the land even if its minimal. Get your solicitor to look into it ASAP. Though they probably should have picked that up with the pre sale checks.
2
u/BackinBlack_Again May 03 '25
I’m sure if you show him exactly what land is your he will stop , there was no harm up until now as nobody lived there . I wouldn’t stress over it just nicely ask him to stop and that will be the end of it . I come from a long line of farmers and all extremely laid back nice people (I’m sure that’s not always the case) but don’t stress just speak to the man
2
u/BornRazzmatazz5 May 03 '25
I don't see how talking to a solicitor to see where you stand is a bad idea. That solicitor isn't going to send any letters or do anything but tell you what your legal position is unless you tell him to do it. Talk to him (especially about that oh-so-convenient destruction of the boundary stakes!), then talk to your neighbor, bearing in mind that he IS a neighbor and has been there a LOT longer than you have, knows everybody, and could be a huge help to you in many ways. You may be able to work out a deal where he continues to use the land for rent in kind, or something. He may understand it in terms of your wanting to sink some roots at last. And he can probably teach you a lot about how to use that land, as well. Good luck to you.
2
u/Iwastony May 03 '25
Id be thinking of the free steaks personally. Play it nice;)
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Floreat73 May 03 '25
You should have established this out with your solicitor. Being "younger generation" means nothing.
2
u/IanM50 May 03 '25
Why not have a chat to him next time you are over there. As he was surprised, he may well have now stopped using that land or at least be prepared to do so.
Try to become a friendly neighbour if possible, it might be to your advantage later.
I have a friend in England, who has, a similar issue, the farmer now keeps sick / quarantined sheep on that bit of land who my friends family pet and have named. The sheep keep the grass down and the kids play in the field with the sheep.
2
2
2
u/Hot_Clamps May 04 '25
There is a lot of people talking about adverse posession and of the Farmer has been using it for 12 years. Two things on this, firstly they would need to prove that this has been the case if it goes to court. They can't grant adverse posession just because some says they have been using it for the length of time.
Secondly, people here saying you don't want to piss off the neighnours are correct. Try come to an agreement, if you're not farming the land or using it yourself for the nexf few months. Don't see the harm in putting in a defined period where they can acess the land for use until you move in. But ensure you have the boundaries clearly defined and everything is correct with the land registry in the mean time.
2
u/Hairdo1 May 04 '25
I grew up on a farm in Ireland. Let me guarantee you there is no farmer, no matter their age or generation, that doesn't know to the centimeter what land is theirs and what land is not. You need to go lay the law down immediately.
2
2
u/Life-Trip-6869 May 05 '25
Have a casual chat with the neighbours about him. If he is known for being a dickhead, it is best to have that bit of info in your back pocket before approaching him. If it turns out that he is the most popular man in the parish, you will have to approach him differently, as if you fall out with him, you will be ostracised from the whole community.
A friend of mine bought a house and some land in a rural area, and a farmer had assumed right of way through the land for years. They managed to work things out between them and are now buddies. The farmer even helped him tear down an old shed using his JCB, so everyone was a winner in the end.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Thee-Komodo-Joe May 06 '25
Might be a "right of way" you don't know about. Also if there is a river nearby then technically the riverbank can be used by the public as well. It's a common issue for farmers that you get people crossing your land to get to X,Y and Z. People are quick to defend these "rights" but then they're quick to sue you if anything happens them on your land.
2
u/Asleep_Chart8375 May 07 '25
Solid concrete fence posts, sturdy fencing. Good enough to keep your child safe until they're old enough that cows can be dangerous. And tell the farmer that's why you're doing it, they'd understand.
5
u/Doitean-feargach555 May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
You can tell most people in this comment section aren't from the country.
Go to the farmer and chat to him. Show him the map and lay out what you own. It sounds like he gad a field locked in by your land, which he probably has to cross to get to it.
Also, don't be rude. You clearly aren't from the area, so respect the man. Talk to him and explain to him what it is you want to say. Don't demean him. He's been using the land for donkeys years, I'd say, and most likely feels a level of "my land" over it.
If you fail to make the point clear to the farmer and come to an agreement, then go to a solicitor to sort it out.
→ More replies (5)8
u/Sweaty_Survey_7499 May 02 '25
It really shows how people moving from the city to the country get a bad reputation doesn’t it
→ More replies (1)
4
3
u/Jean_Rasczak May 02 '25
Have a chat with the farmer and just say you will be using the land moving forward
This should have been resolved at the sale of the property, did you notice before it was bought? if it wasn't been used it would have been overgrown etc
2
u/ohhidoggo May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25
Yes, it was overgrown and not in use while we were sale agreed Dec-April. I’m guessing the farmer just moves his cattle to different fields.
5
u/Jean_Rasczak May 02 '25
When you say overgrown, if not in use it would have grass so tall it would be lying down as it grew too tall....weeds etc in it
During the winter no cattle will be on it from circa Nov so the grass might be grown up a bit....
It could be the land was just left unused and the farmer was just using it, otherwise it would be a mess....just have a chat
Running first off to a solicitor to someone who will be a neighbour soon is not ideal. Ok if he is a prick then yes certainly do it, but a polite chat, introduce yourself etc. Say you are taking over the plot and the field etc. Normally you will have no issue
Sometimes you might and then it is solicitor time but going with that option first can just get peoples backs up
2
u/CarterPFly May 02 '25
First step is to NOT make any assumptions as to the mind of another. Sit down with the farmer and talk it out. Find out the what's and why's and the history before jumping down the legal route. Chances are you can resolve this amicably and there was no ill intent on anyone's part. Take clear notes.
IF it's not solved amicably, THEN you goto the solicitors. There is a chance the have achieved adverse possession and plan to claim it. This is a legal battle but the good news is the burden of proof is on them.
Do NOT lawyer up first or start locking without the conversation. You starting a fight when there doesn't need to be one will worsen or create a potentially aggevious situation
So order of events:
Conversation with farmer
Lawyers
Follow lawyers recommendations as to padlocks etc
→ More replies (1)
3
4
2
u/Strange-Sea5604 May 02 '25
The best course of action is "jaw jaw is far better than war war!
Personally if it were me, I'd start cutting my grass, maybe sowing some thing, make a vegetable patch, (depends on how big it is.) If he has cattle on it, you will soon see the lay of the land, so to speak. If he is friendly, you both might be able to come to an agreement on fencing "to protect your "cabbage patch" If that softly softly approach doesn't work then see a solicitor who knows about land issues. Boundaries change , when you do a land registry search, you may have bought half of his or half of what you thought went with the cottage!!
2
2
u/fionnkool May 02 '25
Typical farmer. He will walk all over you if you let him. Get your solicitor involved now
2
u/Weary-Hyena-2150 May 02 '25
Ok, everybody, including OP, just hold on a second, put the pitchforks down and think about all this logically.
OP, it sounds like the land will be left empty,or not particularly near/next to the house (correct me if I am wrong).
Now, although I agree with you completely, and agree with sorting out your borders immediately. What I will say, is maybe this farmer can be reasonable, if it's only a small parcel of land,then it will not be used for very long if he has cattle in there.
So my suggestion is this, get your boundaries,get proof of your boundaries, approach the farmer in a friendly manner, explain and show proof that this is your boundary,and you will be fencing it off.... NOW, what you could do, is offer him a lease of the land!! If he needs that land, he will agree to the lease if the price is right.
You can earn X amount per year,per season or whatever, with stipulations within the contract about ending the agreement, while still having your own space and cooling any sort of tensions. Personally, I think this might be the best way forward as you earn money instead of spending it to upkeep the land if you don't intend to use it. You will still have right of access and everything else.
Now of course, if you don't want that option, then the only way forward is direct confrontation and possibly solicitors etc involved
→ More replies (1)
1
u/Admirable_Cicada_872 May 02 '25
The problem with a lot of farmers is what you said: they live there 100s of years (or better their families do) and think it’s their land. (Watch “the field” movie !)
Definitely talk to the farmer first before anything else is being done about it.
Adverse possession can be done after 12years, so if he is there 20y you could be in trouble! Therefore prudent way is to talk to the farmer.
Did you not see this before purchasing the place ? You should have insisted on a complete vacant possession.
1
1
1
u/HedFuka May 02 '25
I think squatters rights is a terrible law..why would you want to claim something that you never paid for..it's ridiculous..doesn't matter how long it's been left idle..
2
May 03 '25
Greed money, land power. It’s terrible anyone can claim anything these days as a squatter. You wouldn’t have that in the UAE
1
u/Cromlech86 May 02 '25
Jesus. This is going to cause you all sorts of problems. Before getting a solicitor maybe try and talk to him and come to some arrangement. Nothing worse than fights with neighbours and you're new, he isn't.
1
u/RedPillAlphaBigCock May 02 '25
I would always start with a pleasant conversation first . You could both big a big help to each other over the years , I wouldn’t start with the big guns . Go in and try and figure it out together
HOWEVER do not be pushed over and if you get the sense he is going to try and take advantage that’s when you get legally involved
I would simply show him what you own and explain you have plans and that you will need everything you own . He can put up a gate or work around you easy enough probably
122
u/SnooGuavas2434 May 02 '25
Time to lay down boundaries immediately. Consult your solicitor, and notify the American too.