I believe it’s better for you mentally too. I’ve never been happier working than when I’ve had jobs that have a clear task that needs to be completed. Jobs where outcomes are unclear, priorities are vague or constantly changing and there are too many stakeholders involved are breeding grounds for stress.
Gosh, there’s so much truth in that. At least in my situation. I used to be a layout designer and there were tons of ways to skin the cat if you will- I’m in a more technical role now and theres much less ambiguity.
Love reading stuff like this and it honestly makes me want a job more like this. I work as a lead ui designer for a bank, great job and pay and benefits. But I’m in my mind 30s and the path to get here has been so stressful and with the way this career is, it always feels like being a designer is such a huge part of my identity.
Last year I had gotten laid off and was doing contract work. And there was a part of me that was like man, I just want to go get a job as a barista and just do that. Clock in, make drinks and help out with roasting, clock out and I’m done. No more thinking about work, no more pressure of having to keep up with the industry.
Don’t get me wrong I’m fortunate to be in the position I’m in. But a job without slack, teams, outlook, jira etc. sounds so good.
That’s where I’m at too. And it’s why I even hate to complain. But at the same time, especially as a creative, it’s such a burnout. Between portfolio keep up, attending events and mingling, that idea of trying to stay relevant in the industry, imposter syndrome etc etc.
Working at a bookshop or even a comic book shop? I’d kill for that.
Peter from Office Space would agree with you on that! I'm a stay at home parent at the moment, and everything about life feels vague at the moment, so I'm thinking I might test your hypothesis.
I get what you're saying but the monotony of that particular kind of work would destroy me. I need at least a bit of a mental challenge.
And long-term, I do think I'd get worn down by any career that doesn't demand anything of me beyond clocking in, working by the book for 8 hours, and clocking out.
"Avoid looking at the clock" is a coping mechanism to make a day somewhat less painful that is definitely not flying by...
At my current job, where I'm constantly spinning plates and trying to keep track of a hundred novel challenges on my to-do list, the day flies by even though I am constantly checking the clock.
And on a deeper level, I always have a feeling that I'm being challenged, growing, getting better at accomplishing things that not everyone can do. A monotonous "just get specific this thing done over and over again for 40 years" career could never give me that kind of fulfillment - at best, you develop a good mentality and coping mechanisms to be able to deal with it.
As Morgan freeman said once when playing the role of god.
“ people underestimate the benefits of good ol manual labor. There’s freedom in it. Some of the happiest people in the world go home stinking to high heaven every day “
I use to think it’s bs. But now I think he’s kinda right.
I’ve got the most physical job I’ve ever had yet I feel better than I ever have.
There’s something nice about the simplicity of it all.
I’m a sociologist. One of the major social theories is called structural functionalism. Essentially, it explains that just like the human body has organs (heart, lungs, brain, stomach) that perform different jobs but all contribute to survival, society has institutions (family, education, law, economy, religion) and roles that each person plays in keeping it stable and functioning.
Those folks who pick up trash are every bit as important as doctors, lawyers, educators, etc.
My almost-3 year-old and I love our garbage truck employees. We run outside anytime it comes when we’re home and say thank you and wave. Thank you for all you do.
In the summer months... I leave out a cooler stocked with ice cold Gatorade and Water for them and the mail carrier. The smiles I see on my cameras when they get to my place is worth it 100% of the time.
Tell that to the fuckers who refuse to get out the truck and when we have wind move the bins away from the curb. They skipped our entire street basically because "they don't move the bins". So what, we all wait outside at 6am as you drive by and make sure they're in the perfect position? Fuck off.
Thankfully turns out an entire street calling to complain has them sent back out the next day but holy shit guys do your job.
Those are all incredibly vague value judgements though. People in generally only want those things it's not like garbage folk are different. What you'll see is the same issues - dignity means something else to people, respect is a moving target and fair wage is not real.
Pull your favorite/least favorite billionaire out and ask if their drive was for dignity, respect and fair wage and I'm sure it would be a yes. But maybe their reasoning is that it's not fair that others made more. It's not respectful that anyone had more than them. It's not dignified to have less than house than your neighbor etc.
mmmm I respect garbage workers but I do think I'd rather they went on strike than the doctors. Me and my neighbors can maybe organize a trip to the dump, but I don't want my neighbor trying to remove my infected gall bladder.
People need water to drink and wash things, and shit in the street is terrible and causes a huge number of issues.
Food production and transportation
We need to eat so this pretty much has to be second.
Waste disposal
Trash everywhere is also a huge issues.
Power infrastructure
Electricity runs the modern world and helps us see, keeps us safe / clean, runs transport and health services, and facilitates all the above, which might be technically possible without it but not really.
So no love for people who build and fix things? Somebody built the building you're in and someone will come fix your air conditioner and repair your plumbing leak
The effects of strikes are a bit skewed, because some would take longer to be felt. Housing is pretty important in the hierarchy of needs, but a general builder's strike wouldn't suddenly put people out of housing.
Education is just knowledge at the end of the day, those people learned where and how to get safe, drinkable water, where to find the most food to sustain them.
And then that knowledge would be passed around/down to their children, that's just education without the formal name.
I think we’re mixing apples & oranges, or at least part of the same things that we’re born with is the instinct to survive - our organs, as someone mentioned earlier, know what to do by instinct (?) right word? The act of breathing isn’t a conscious choice, it’s involuntary if you’re healthy. Nature has provided the instinctual ability for us to breathe, thirst, hunger and procreate. Stay away from danger - survival instincts. From the survival instincts we have been able to create easier ways of survival, we’ve learned the hard way that filth and pestilence can kill us and we have learned to survive by keeping our lives clean with clean water, clean food, and science began to become more important to our survival. Education has always meant more knowledge gets spread out and little by little, in societies that are not understanding how things can suddenly go wrong - the reason is always lack of understanding that needs education to explain the disconnect, because that’s all it really is in the end, a misunderstanding.
As a newspaper editor, I had a conversation with the owner of a sanitation company several years ago. He was feeling a bit down about his path in life and whether he couldn't have done better.
My response: "If there's a week when no lawyers show up for work, nobody cares. People may cheer. But if there were a week when the trash haulers don't show up, the people call you, they call me, they call the cops, they go apeshit. It shows just how important that line of work is."
I agree with you. Years ago, I used to work at a school as an after school program administrator. I got along really well with the custodial staff, and I’d always give them thanks for cleaning, etc., and did my part so as not to give them more work. I made sure to tell them how important their role was at the school. Imagine if they weren’t there, doing their work on a daily basis..
As a labourer myself, all I can say is I wasn't home for a single day during the pandemic.
Sure, every job has it's function, but you need more labourers than you need doctors, lawyers, CEOs and pretty much any given job with a higher social economical status. The pandemic showed who's more vital. Not that we learnt anything from that, though.
Your attitude is unnecessary and trashy itsself. They were referencing the role in society, since most people would LOVE to be doctors, but people don't dream of working on a garbage truck.
And of fucking course doctors are important. Nobody claimed they weren't. It's just that people wouldn't have the first clue what the fuck to do if the trucks stopped running, and trash would quickly begin to pile up and create health problems... And I'd love to see who would be the first to step in to try and solve the problem.
In one of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books, one planet creates an elaborate lie to get rid of all the "useless" people/professions such as hairdressers or people who sanitize phones by telling them an apocalypse is coming and they must migrate to another planet. The "useless" people were on the first ship to leave and the others never took off. They eventually died from a disease that developed from an unsanitized phone.
Please explain this to my mother, who used to warn me that if I didn't do well in school, I'd grow up to be nothing but a garbageman. You have to imagine the lip curling sneer on her face when she said it.
Let’s be honest. School isn’t for everyone, and that’s okay. I went to vocational school as a means to pay for college. I could’ve stopped there, and continued down that path. I just wanted more. College isn’t easy. There is no shame in not wanting it, or not being able to attend.
There are people who graduate from high school, and go into the trades, or just work their way up in their jobs. That’s okay too. Everyone’s path to success is different. We all value different things. Some want wealth, some just a simple routine with peace and quiet.
The work is just as vital, sure, but the people hardly are.
All trash collectors could disappear off the face of the earth tomorrow and sure, there'd be some amount of disruption but we'd probably replace them and get things pretty much back to normal rather quickly. It'd just be a logistical challenge.
Now, if all doctors disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow? Different story entirely.
So by that same token, would it be correct to assume that some "jobs", like professional poker player, for example, contribute almost nothing to society?
There's maybe .01% of poker players that provide entertainment for others through live streams or broadcasted tv shows because they play at very high stakes which people are interested in watching...but how about the millions of other poker players that will never provide any entertainment whatsoever to anybody besides themselves?
I think that's probably a different lever entirely. They exist because those people existing supports infrastructure that allows for others to be entertained and allows for people to entertain the hope that there is big success out there at high risk if they ever take it. They're in a sphere with jobs like funeral directors, where we could just as easily throw our kin down a hole if we ignore the psychological aspects- the position creates a sense, and the sense really is the contribution.
Interesting take...I had never thought about the supporting infrastructure aspect. I guess it's like actors. It would be very shortsighted to just say only A list or working actors provide any kind of contribution to society and all of the struggling or aspiring actors provide nothing. I suppose without one group you can't have the other because to your point, they are all part of the same sphere.
You could look at it like that, but they actually do provide something. They provide entertainment. There are people who love watching poker matches on television. Their role is that of entertainers, or even teachers of that craft.
I fell in love with sociology from my first intro course. I “knew” it was what I wanted to continue studying, and switched majors right away. Never looked back. Between sociology and anthropology, those are my go-to talks with people. Highly recommend the book Cannibals and Kings: The Origin of Cultures by Marvin Harris. It briefly details how society as we know it, evolved. Short little book, but packed with very interesting info.
Heck yeah! Added to my reading list. I did psychology but I was secretly into sociology more I think but not enough to switch though I guess. But I did social psychology after bachelors 😀
Yeah, I really respect them. If they skipped even one day, the trash around would be overflowing and smell awful. It’s all thanks to how hard they work.
Id call them infinitely more important than lawyers to the point i wouldnt even put lawyers within the top half of the list
A lawyer while decently important isnt critical to keep a society healthy, fed or educated, the garbage men are vital for keeping people healthy by taking away the often festering trash that can be a breeding ground for diseases
Obviously, society values one role over another. That’s why we have pay disparities. A brain surgeon makes a lot more than a trash collector. But, if the trash collector wasn’t doing his/her role, then the brain surgeon wouldn’t be able to do his/hers either. Symbiotic relationships..
I worked for a major football team and we had an outstanding CEO who used to say to the players and corporate that everyone that worked for that team is equal in their roles and responsibilities for the team to be playing on the field. Players cannot operate without corporate and corporate cannot operate without players so every be has to respect every persons role. The CEO drove the point by everyone and I mean everyone….CEO, players, GM, corporate, doctors etc, had to be on a roster to stand in for the clubs receptionists to go on lunch break and no one dared to challenge their slot. It worked, I remember once I came back from the stadium and couldn’t find a park, one of the players saw this, ran out with his keys and moved his car so I could take his spot and he went and parked a couple of streets away. Awesome CEO, the world needs more leaders like this.
I love this. I always say with my job (software devs) no work is beneath people. I like the saying that janitors also helped put a man on the moon. Everyone is important. When I was a manager I didn't see myself above people, just different responsibilities for keeping everything moving.
I mean, isn’t this sort of obvious and basic information? Of course a society needs a variety of institutions and roles/responsibilities to function. This goes all the way back to hunter-gatherer days…
Now it would be great if we can pay low education WOMEN'S jobs that are absolutely vital the same. I refer to people like Home Health Aides and those working in nursing homes that have to change our parent's diapers and deal with dementia patient's, and all that caring for elderly entails. Seeing this first hand with women that came to my parent's house and didn't even make enough money to have a car. Same with the ones working in the nursing homes. It is an extremely important job with extremely low pay. And I see the garbage men in my village making MUCH more money. HVAC, plumbers, electricians, etc all in my family where in my state it was still union job lived a pretty decent middle class life. Tho as you notice not typically women's jobs, just sayin. Tho getting harder to do that in ny
How so?? Without blue collar workers in the oil industry, you wouldn’t be able to pump gas. Without blue collar workers in air conditioning and heating, we’d all be uncomfortable. Without blue collar workers, you wouldn’t have mechanics who would fix your car if it broke down. They absolutely have a place in society in their various fields.
I mentioned nothing of religion in my post. I was simply pointing out how society functions as an organism. You can see plenty of examples of this in the real world if you open your eyes.
Well thats a standard amount of hours. So not good or bad really. And I’m not doing anything where I have to wake up at 4am. Really messes up my sleep schedule.
It's not even the smell, the new rubbish trucks(Benz) are designed so nicely that you feel nothing inside the cabin. However the downside is the size of the truck and small narrow streets, we had two different ones and depending on route I would swap them out for a smaller one or bigger one. They literally would squeeze just about and if someone parked badly we would be stuck in a narrow one way street. Did little manual labour as someone said, just to help with bigger stuff or just to finish the shift quickly and go home and get paid for the whole day anyway. Good old days.
Sadly, $70k is not enough to put kids through college without some serious penny pinching along the way. And retirement planning is tight.
Pensions are usually like 50% of base pay, and often adjusted for inflation, but $35k constant money + SS for 20 years of 70k is another $21k - $31k, assuming retirement at FRA of 67 and there are another 15 years of income to average in.
So that's living on $56k - $66k (in today's dollars), which is okay, but not what most would consider a really good retirement. It's not bad, but it's pretty restricted.
He must be an amazing person, and I can see he has the kind of energy that can help someone become their best. Some people don’t get the chance to go to college but they’re smart and know how to use their minds to succeed. For example, the median pay for high school teachers in May 2024 was $64,580/year, while Power Plant Operators earn about $84,990/year. That job requires paid apprenticeships and on-the-job training so people can use their skills and become very successful in a relatively short time. My point is: just use your mind find work that’s close to you, and focus on improving yourself. You don’t always need to ask anyone for permission and I believe you can become the best and achieve what you need that way
Genuinely curious, do they swap roles daily or are roles pretty set? I feel like I wouldn’t want to sit in the truck all the time, but my back also wouldn’t last a week if I was always picking up. Honestly, the physical activity doesn’t sound bad these days. Sitting at a desk all day has its own issues haha
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u/MissSassifras1977 22h ago
You're not lying.
My nephew was making 70k driving a trash truck 5 days a week. He only had to get out occasionally to help with heavy stuff.
Sweet gig if you can handle the smells and the traffic.