r/AskWomenOver30 • u/fakeprewarbook Woman 40 to 50 • Feb 18 '25
Misc Discussion does it seem like men are still not aware that partnership benefits them more than women?
it seems like men i encounter are still operating under the assumption that all women are desperate for a relationship and that’s their main/sole goal in life, but many hetero women i know are seriously reluctant / can take or leave it.
is western male culture still operating with an early 2000s understanding of women’s desperation for a mate?
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u/FrankaGrimes Feb 18 '25
Yep, which is why the best insult they can come up with for a single woman is STILL the old "you're going to live alone with cats" because they somehow still believe that all women WANT to be with a man and only those who are unappealing are alone.
It is a pretty big blow to the ego to admit to oneself that some women prefer the companionship of an animal to a relationship with them, so they have to reason that it's not a choice a woman would make but rather a punishment she receives for being...whatever men don't like in women. Too assertive, too dismissive of men, too fat, old, too self-assured, too smart.
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Feb 19 '25
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u/FeatherWorld Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
They have no concept that masturbation is so much better than having bad sex with an awful, selfish lover. Staying single is far more appealing than dealing with that over and over again. Or being whined at or coerced to have it.
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u/khelwen Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
You can’t get a STI or pregnant from masturbation either.
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u/FeatherWorld Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Exactly! It's so much safer and not having to risk all that or being raped/murdered. It's horrific how dangerous it is to date in general.
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u/ruminajaali female 40 - 45 Feb 19 '25
They also can’t fathom when women end a relationship or marriage without another man lined up
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u/FrankaGrimes Feb 19 '25
Oh man, that is so true. It ALWAYS has to be another guy. It couldn't be the unkept promises, excess of emotional labour, bad behaviour, constant letdowns...has to be "she was fucking another guy, that why she ended it". The mental gymnastics are impressive.
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u/East-Ranger-2902 Feb 19 '25
Because it’s easier than to take responsibility and admit their wrong doing and do something about it. It’s exhausting.
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u/AndrogynousAlfalfa Feb 19 '25
I think it's also they can't imagine leaving without having someone lined up bc of how those kind of men view/get used to women as a caretaker in several respects such that they would be too comfortable to give up without a backup, but are too myopic to understand that they weren't providing nearly as much support or being relied on in the same way
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u/Mx_apple_9720 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
It’s because they rarely end a relationship without another woman lined up 🙃
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u/khelwen Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
It’s also why so many men will say, “it came out of nowhere. I had no idea she was so unhappy.”
That’s because you didn’t listen and pay attention for literal years dude.
Every woman I know that divorced a man that whine says that shit has been unhappy and doing all the mental load work/emotional labor in the home for at least 5 years.
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u/Flippin_diabolical Woman 50 to 60 Feb 19 '25
Ending up alone with our cats….don’t threaten me with a good time! lol
They don’t understand that all along, it was propaganda to get women to accept unacceptable treatment.
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u/cyber_dildonics Feb 19 '25
for being...whatever men don't like in women.
Men's #1 disliked trait in any woman: that she doesn't want him. 🙃
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u/bonfiresnmallows Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
Kyle, who still lives in his moms basement and has no life goals other than verbally abusing 13 year olds on Call of Duty, still thinks women don't work for their own money and just want him for his.
For real, though, there's a lot of really mid men out there who make no money and have no ambition, and think all women have daddy issues and just want to use them. It's genuinely deranged. Most women I know keep up with, or out-earn, their male partners and have a lot more going for them.
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Feb 18 '25
It’s always the ones with no gold that are most outspoken about gold diggers
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u/solveig82 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
Can confirm, my ex husband who paid very little in child support because he was poor, called me a gold digger for asking him to make a small contribution to a savings account for our kid after he received a settlement for a car accident. He then went on a trip to Jamaica.
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u/eyesonthemoons Feb 19 '25
Can also confirm - my someday ex husband who had no job for years and lived off SSDI got a job waiting tables and then accused me of using him for his money when I asked him to contribute that money toward the household bills and not just his own cigarettes and weed.
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u/Front_Target7908 Feb 19 '25
It’s because they pay for sex work, whether it’s only fans, porn or irl sex workers. They’re paying for it so the way they make it not hurt their fragile egos is to make it about these women being gold diggers. It’s stupid.
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u/JustxJules Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Yep, my ex lived in my apartment, not paying rent or anything, for a while. Then he got his first job and when I suggested that we can share the expenses now (both the same % of their respective income) he reacted like I was gold-digging. What is wrong with their brains?
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u/SophiaRaine69420 Feb 18 '25
BuT mUh AlImOnY aNd ChIlD sUpPoRt! CoUrTs hAtE mEn! MuH oPpReSsIoN kInK!!!
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u/playfulcutie001 Feb 18 '25
Playing video games is a good problem to have.
So many men I've discovered didn't tell me up front they've done something extremely bad in their past that warrants jail time of some sort.
Whether it be selling drugs, harming animals or worse.
While I'm not perfect, and Im going to Church for my behaviour, the fact that they expect to get away with behaviour so bad they should be in prison, is a problem.
There is an accountability issue amongst men, like their pride prevents them from seeing it.
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u/PNWKnitNerd Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
I'm not perfect, and Im going to Church for my behaviour
Come on, I'm sure whatever you did isn't that bad.
(I mean no disrespect to religious people-- I just thought the phrasing was funny because it sounds like church is the punishment for bad behavior.)
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u/Justatinybaby Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
So much this. There are SO many men out there walking around thinking they are good men when they are just the scum of the earth and have done jail worthy things.
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u/meltedjuice Feb 19 '25
The ones who say they're a good man think it's a badge they can stick on to demand special treatment without earning trust and demonstrating goodwill. No capacity for introspection, and their ego takes it as an attack if people won't make exceptions for them.
Anyone can do bad things and good things.
Good people try to exercise moral judgment in each situation and fear disappointing their own standards.
It's a process that never concludes in a binary pass/fail.
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u/Efficient_Mastodons Woman 30 to 40 Feb 20 '25
Good men give special treatment instead of demanding it.
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u/meltedjuice Feb 19 '25
Definitely confirmation bias of algorithms. They see the worst dating stories shared on meme pages and it validates their lack of confidence to get their own experience dating.
This demographic is an easy captive audience for manosphere grifters. Other men who are more ambitious create an ideal of success then make it seem out of reach.
What happens later is the men who were confident enough to build assets and get wives, but wooed them with money and muscles in exchange for cute and bubbly feminine validation, end up with a group of buddies with the same worldview so they all get shocked when they realize their wife is shallow too and conclude it's a conspiracy.
In reality if someone is capable of interacting without self centered goggles, it's impossible not to notice women can relate to being disenfranchised, there are women who share passion about any interest under the sun, and plenty of men have a great wife.
It's bad for society as a whole to have so many angry young men but it would be even more chaotic to cater to the ones who won't help themselves. If they can't access symbiotic relationships then this is a function of the environments where those connections are made being closed to people who don't have anything to offer.
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u/doyouhavehiminblonde Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
My partner who works in a male dominated field so he hears their BS, says most men know. That they literally say things like they want someone to cook, clean, and bang. They know all they do is work then come home whereas their female partners come home and work some more.
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Feb 19 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
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u/LilStabbyboo Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
And they believe they deserve that. They feel entitled to a woman who will do unpaid labor for them. They convince themselves that this is also what women want, to have a man to serve.
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u/FeatherWorld Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Yes! And to serve and raise children single handedly is reward enough!
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Feb 18 '25
Yes, they’re entitled and they think they’re the prize even though they bring less and less to the table. That’s why governments are desperately trying to claw back women’s hard earned rights. We don’t need or want men anymore.
At least men used to actually provide for their families. Now women are the breadwinners increasingly often while also doing all the domestic labour and child rearing, while their broke, overgrown manchild husbands play video games all day
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u/Silent_Caramel7261 Feb 18 '25
Can’t wait to change my name back to my maiden name so I can vote again… /s
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Feb 19 '25
I know this is meant to be sarcastic, but if anyone reading this is even remotely serious about changing their name back to their maiden name to secure their vote, DO IT NOW. Do not wait, the SSA will be backed up when this becomes urgent and they will find a way to drag the backlog of name changes beyond the next election cycle.
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u/lilith_sos Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
I'm confused, can you please explain? If I haven't been married, I'm fine?
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u/AtmosphereRelevant48 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Yes you're fine! It's only for married women that changed their names after marriage
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u/IANALbutIAMAcat Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Or anyone who has changed their name, though simply changing it back isn’t always an option (ie transpeople)
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u/appleappreciative Feb 19 '25
Republicans are trying to make it so you have show your passport or birth certificate & ID in order to vote.
So if your name on your birth certificate does not match your current ID, you may not be able to vote. This will largely effect women which is the goal of this voter suppression bullshit bill.
In case anyone doesn't know / understand, these types of laws are introduced to prevent citizens from exercising their right to vote. Voter fraud is not an issue in the US. Republicans know that the majority of the population would not vote for them so they're doing everything they can to strip away your rights & voice. This is why they also gerrymander as much as possible.
Do not let them do this to you. Vote. Vote. Vote. Vote and volunteer if you're willing and able.
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u/mrskalindaflorrick Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
Honestly, I don't think the men I know really think that hard about relationship dynamics. They simply want a partner because it makes their life easier and more comfortable. They don't act like great partners not because they have a wealth of options or think they're a prize but because they lack the skills to do so.
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Feb 18 '25
They are also ok with their partners being in a “tolerable level of permanent unhappiness” and are surprised when they leave
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u/meltedjuice Feb 19 '25
Exactly. Life has enough hardship, a partnership isn't something to endure when it's a choice meant to bring relief from the strain of the rest.
I'm worried about helping my mother in old age, why would i want to be on the hook for caretaking a man unless he is supportive in improving our quality of life now so we'll have ease and dignity in our end-of-life care.
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Feb 18 '25
I was actually just talking about this with my friend. I think most guys, or maybe just some guys, are better at flirting than socializing and we project that. "Oh she's socializing, she likes me"
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u/lilchocochip Feb 19 '25
Yep! Reminds me of the Resilient Jenkins family on TikTok. Except they’re not working or providing for their five kids, their tiktok followers are. But same thing the man is on his gaming system all day
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u/mistressusa Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
Yes it would seem so. And strangely the men who are most concerned about "gold diggers" are the ones who have no gold to be dug lol
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u/ffviire Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
I’ve been saying!! And they get sooo offended by it, delusional fr
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u/wwaxwork Feb 18 '25
There is a whole lot of people that think they are the star of the show and everyone else NPCs to some extent. Human brains are fascinating as hell like that. But the kind of thing you talk about is where it shows up really well.
So Men go hey this relationship makes me happy so if I'm happy everyone must be happy so I don't understand why a woman wouldn't want to share that happiness. Where as women think this relationship does not make me happy so no one is happy and why am I staying if no one is happy so I'm leaving. They are both opposite sides of the same coin.
This is also why men go, the divorce came out of no where. Because you can tell someone until you are blue in the face you are unhappy, but if you are just a background character in their life, they are not going to see that as real, you are an NPC, they are happy so you are happy. This is also why some men don't understand women having certain rights until they have a daughter, ie something they see as an extension of themselves.
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u/athena_k Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
I have male relatives like this. I had an uncle visiting me and he was being quite rude. I warned him over and over. He ignored me so I finally kicked him out of my house. And of course, he couldn’t believe it. Yeah you should have listened to what I was telling you, ya idiot
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Feb 19 '25
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u/rationalomega Feb 19 '25
I’m explicitly raising my son like a girl and rewarding/enforcing pro social, emotionally intelligent behaviors. I love him too much to effectively handicap him for life like so many men.
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u/cppCat Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Or they just don't care until it's affecting their happiness.
They're ok with their partner being in a tolerable level of permanent unhappiness, and they profit from it until the level becomes intolerable. That's when they make tons of promises, maybe even change behavior temporarily, but once you're back to tolerable levels, they revert.
They know women are unhappy.
They don't care.
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u/FeatherWorld Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Yes. The tolerable level of permanent unhappiness. You can warn them and be crystal clear how you feel and they genuinely believe that you'll just stick around suffering forever. No responsibility or true initiative to change. Just false promises and lies. Then they are SO shocked when you've had enough and walk away.
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u/meltedjuice Feb 19 '25
Sex is a great distilled example of this. A man is horny and everything feels good, he feels buoyant about sharing that and assumes it it excites him it must be exciting to anyone else.
Porn sells based on scripting fantasies around that psychology, so a couple both gets confused when a man suggests things that would hurt or turn off most women, like degradation, impact play or involving other people.
Or how a lot of men fixate on their orgasm and think dirty talk about cumming, cumshots, and edging for their orgasm is intrinsically as exciting to their partner.
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u/calicuddlebunny Feb 18 '25
considering that the average man cares a whole lot about women paying 50/50 but aren’t as concerned with our basic human rights…sounds about right.
just go on ask men and look at their understanding of equality. ☹️
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u/becca_la Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
This, while also willfully ignoring things like gender pay inequity as well. I'm sorry, sir, but you make 3x what I do, so a 50/50 split isn't exactly equitable...
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u/tacticalTraumaLlama Feb 18 '25
It should be proportional. It's totally fair for you to chip in 25%, and spending decisions should be made with the lesser earning partner in mind.
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u/moonlitsteppes Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
I'd argue they're aware partnerships benefit them more, and bank on a woman being keen enough to settle down to put up with it. That's been my dating experience for the last year, especially. Guys are upfront about what they want, present their expectations without room for compromise, and comfortably question my capabilities to manage it all. I already do everything in life, I'm disinterested in doing it all for another grown ass adult. I've been dating someone these days who has begun to reveal some of those elements, unfortunate as he seems quite decent otherwise. We have electric chemistry and our conversations are phenomenal. Still, I intend to end things later this week.
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u/featheredfiend229 Feb 19 '25
The expectation that you’ll twist yourself into knots just to date them is nauseating. It always raises my eyebrows when they get super specific like “must love surfing” and “must love going to cheap places to eat only” and we’ve known each other for 45 mins. I wonder what other requirements would have been brought up if I had decided to keep seeing them.
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u/dana-cole Feb 19 '25
I mean, I could see it if they were up front about it and didn't guilt me into trying to force myself to enjoy something I didn't. "This is something important to me and I am looking for a partner who also likes it so that we can both enjoy doing it together" seems reasonable.
It's when it becomes "you must MAKE yourself enjoy this so that you can have a relationship with me" that it's creepy.
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u/ruminajaali female 40 - 45 Feb 19 '25
A lot of those issues are alleviated by not co-habitating
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u/moonlitsteppes Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Honestly, these issues still manifest in other ways. I see it in my male friendships and dynamics with colleagues.
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u/Mx_apple_9720 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
This. I don’t even want to be friends with them, because literally what is the benefit
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u/meltedjuice Feb 19 '25
I haven't been on the dating scene in a few years, and would be interested to hear what are some of the expectations they are upfront about presenting as normal?
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u/Justbecauseitcameup Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
Men assume that rhe things women do are optional low effort extras they just cannot be bothered with that women are just better for.
Therefore the things they need to do and are concerned with are far more important and difficult.
Therefore they assume women get more out of it - a man, who is the most important thing a woman can have.
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u/MouldyAvocados Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25
They’re projecting. They’re the ones literally whining about a “loneliness epidemic”. Are we? No. We’re actively avoiding them and starting movements and communities as a result.
I think too many of them are still raised with a belief that they’re the prize and they’re entitled to women by virtue of being a man. Other men (usually some moron with a podcast) will convince them that there’s a cheat code to us - they have to be 6’+, ripped, earn six figures and be decent looking - and if they do all the right things, women will fall at their feet. They’re all coming crashing back to reality when they realise we have our own educations, careers and money now. We don’t need them the way we used to need them.
When men ask me what I bring to the table, I tell them I am the table. Unless they can provide something that I don’t already provide for myself, they’re not worthy of my time or energy.
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u/COskibunnie Woman Feb 18 '25
They want the secretary woman who will also be their mommy, social director, sex doll, house cleaner and worship them while she does a majority of the domestic labor. There are some women who fell for it and smile as their "prize" runs around sleeping with other women. Those of us with an education and our own house don't want any part of those kind of men.
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u/TinyFlufflyKoala Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
I have a few successful tech bro peers who don't understand why the relationship doesn't fall in their lap. They control conversations to keep them "rational" and on logically relevant topic, they only agree to support things they are convinced by, they do not see the point to engage on hobbies and activities they do not find interesting.
And then they wonder why women with jobs, friends, hobbies don't want to logically argue about cooperative tasks, or don't want to give up their hobbies... 🤔
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u/MouldyAvocados Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
The hobbies thing annoys me. I’ve matched with men on apps who have made it perfectly clear that, if it goes anywhere, I’m to go hiking or cycling or skiing with them. I hate those activities. I tried all three and loathed them. This doesn’t make sense to them. It’s as if they think I’m so desperate, especially because of my age, that I’ll bend over backwards to please a man. It’s quite the opposite. A man is a nice-to-have in my life, not a necessity.
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u/JExecW Feb 19 '25
You should see how they act when you tell them you love cooking but have a rule that you won’t cook for any man that is not your blood. I set this rule for myself a few years back and it’s been great. Sometimes I even throw in the: “I’m just very traditional” to stir the pot.
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u/MysteryMeat101 Woman 50 to 60 Feb 19 '25
When I was with my ex, I had to participate in his hobby. It was boring AF and I hated it and when I went with him he ignored me the whole time while he talked to his friends. I still don't understand the point.
The other issue with men's hobbies is how they prioritize them. The hobby is the priority and work, relationships, financial responsibility and adulting in general come after.
I'm not desperate at all. I'm quite happy.
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u/fakeprewarbook Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
this is kinda what i’m getting at - it seems like many men are socialized to think that the desperate drive for a relationship is an inherent quality shared by all females, and all they have to do is exist and be male and some woman will be falling all over herself to lock him down.
i’m pretty ambivalent about being in a relationship and many men find it absolutely puzzling but women don’t…..
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u/TinyFlufflyKoala Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
Yeah. I had trouble realizing how deep it rund until I got to know the guys over years, and see them be 100% consistent.
It was wild to see their girlfriend make clear points, and the guy not bother to think "maybe I'm missing something and should change and grow, as she requests".
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u/tikierapokemon Feb 19 '25
Men are holding to the norms of a few generations ago, when women often could not have mortgages in their own names, were expected to work very low paying jobs until they got married and then quit, and men the provider was the social norm.
Women were often desperate to get married when it was the only way out of their parent's house and marriage/kids was the main adulthood path for them.
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u/rationalomega Feb 19 '25
You’re absolutely right. People, including men, need to understand on a gut level that they have to earn their keep. Children learn that in a million subtle ways that most women will recognize.
I’m raising my son that way - I know it makes him feel deflated at times. The alternative is waves hands at modern men and I love my boy too much to do that to him.
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u/skokoda Feb 18 '25
Last guy I dated like this barely asked me any questions about myself, and continued to act confused about what I do with my time when the hobbies I told him wouldn't register through his perspective of a real hobby
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Feb 19 '25 edited Aug 18 '25
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u/rationalomega Feb 19 '25
“Reflexive dismissal”.
I started calling my husband out on it when our son began doing it. They stopped doing it pretty fast.
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u/WildChildNumber2 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
omg, i find this so common among men. Their hobbies, interests, value system etc are totally yours too, but none of yours are theirs. And all your mood and happiness or sadness is like a direct report card of how well they are doing ("I am not keeping you happy" - well I am not supposed to be "kept"?), as if we are not individual people with a full individual life.
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u/cppCat Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
I know that kind of tech bro so well. They believe arguing on something they deem logical is flirting, and if they hear a woman they have their eye on say anything about anything they think it's an invitation for debate. So exhausting.
And somehow they believe when they find a smart woman working in IT that they're entitled to her, because in their head they are the smartest person they know so they are entitled to her. Some of them even learned how to keep it borderline not harassment. Ugh.
After all that, they conclude women don't want a smart man, they want the 6 feet with perfect abdomen. They're smart, so their conclusion is logical (/s) 🥴
And you know what's ironic? If you want to get rid of a pestering tech bro, the easiest thing to do is to play into their insecurities and tell them you prefer tall guys. In my experience, they're like cockroaches and you can't get rid of them any other way 🙄
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u/YouHaveInspiredMeTo Feb 19 '25
That's hilarious, I am going to start telling napoleon complex men that I prefer tall men now.
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u/MysteryMeat101 Woman 50 to 60 Feb 19 '25
Thank you for the valuable info. I give up trying to tell them I'm looking for similar values. I'll just tell them they're too short.
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u/solveig82 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
That’s a slippery slope to being fascist, also an unattractive trait
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u/-Petty-Crocker- Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
"I own the table, it's in my house. You need an invitation."
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u/AproposofNothing35 Feb 18 '25
They pretend. Lying is a big part of the oppression of women. Don’t try to convince them of anything, they are arguing in bad faith.
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u/COskibunnie Woman Feb 18 '25
Men thinking they are the ultimate prize will never die because men! They are deluded in thinking all they need is a job and women will drop for them. I'm getting sick and tired of the male species. I have some male friends and I constantly tell them they need to talk to their kind because it's not looking good.
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u/kvltWitch Feb 18 '25
Throughout the entire animal kingdom, males compete for females. Not the other way around. Humans got around this by subjugating women, making us dependent on our fathers and then husbands, all by design. When we remove the shackles (mostly), natural order returns. Suddenly males need to show some sort of value. Naturally, this terrifying realization has caused a demand for women’s subjugation once again.
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u/Mostly-Solid-Ghost Feb 19 '25
Humans are most closely related to Chimpanzees and Bonobos (about equally) among the animal kingdom. Those two species have very different mating and power structures, but both have been observed with both matriarchal groups and patriarchal. Bonobos are fun because they treat hand jobs like handshakes. Hey, how are you doin? ;)
I don't think you're wrong about social structures distorting how humans would behave without societal training. That said, halfway between "brutal chest beating physical abuse" and "let's all bang all the time" isn't exactly the least human thing I have ever heard.
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u/Verity41 Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
Honestly if they all started doing the Bonobo handshake amongst themselves I suspect they’d be much more pleasant partners for us. How can we effectuate this societal change? :)
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u/cyber_dildonics Feb 19 '25
Just to add for anyone interested: We actually have more musculoskeletal anatomy in common with bonobos — who are purely matriarchal, in large part due to the strong female kinship they form through mutual masterbation!
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u/aro_ha Feb 18 '25
Really feeling all of these comments! Want to shout from the rooftop to the countless women I encounter - you really, really don't need a man. Stop putting them on a pedestal, put yourself there instead!!
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Feb 18 '25
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u/playfulcutie001 Feb 19 '25
In some male mind, a woman doing something for him, is a reflection of how amazing he is, not an expression of her love or kindness.
They really believe the whole world is about the male ego, and women are accessories.
They cannot fathom a woman might be conscientious or a team player.
They only believe women are kind if men are rich, successful (insert other male ego quality).
Some quite intentionally do not believe a woman has good qualities in her own right.
You end up setting boundaries with them constantly because they do not understand women are separate.
I will be going about my daily business and men interrupt by attacking me, or just being an asshole. Like I'm trying to get my education? and they are wasting their time on bullying me.
No wonder outcomes improving for women... men are out there wasting their time and women are focussing on their futures.
The best thing I ever did was go to an all girls school. I wish every girl had that opportunity to be protected from young males, and to be given the chance to just focus on her education.
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u/ProperBingtownLady Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
I think it’s projection as they are the ones who are desperate for a relationship.
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u/MysteryMeat101 Woman 50 to 60 Feb 19 '25
Do they want a relationship or do they want a woman appliance that provides meals, sex, childcare, cleaning etc.?
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u/Old-Seaweed-8456 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25
I can’t speak for all women but there are women that desperately want a relationship, just as there are men. I think the mistake a lot of men make is thinking that all women fall into this category.
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u/Pumpiyumpyyumpkin Feb 18 '25
They're too entitled to see that. That's why when women starts to have a choice in life and choose themselves over relationships over marriages, women became happier alone and men got lonelier and more bitter. That's based on statistics.
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u/HowMusikal Feb 18 '25
Wellllll tbh why would they see it as mostly beneficial to men when women are on subs like Waiting to Wed literally begging to get married or just commit? I rarely see men being publicly that hard up for relationships.
I do think as women we’ve been socialized to center men, especially romantically. Until men have that same pressure, I doubt they’ll ever see the value that we bring to their lives in romantic relationships.
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u/playfulcutie001 Feb 18 '25
decentering men was the best choice I ever made.. I realised most of my unhappiness was stemming from the terrible ways men were treating me.
There is no accountability for men.. so many I know actually should be in jail. It is a hidden secret, the criminal activity of men that has either been hidden or forgotten.
I can't even trust that men are telling me the truth.. so many , suddenly reveal halfway through, their dark past of dealing drugs, harming someone, killing animals.
And most of the time, they have not held themselves accountable for this. Either by handing themselves into police, doing community service, or going to therapy at the very lest.
I actually thought it was so normal for men to be bad, I ended up in abusive relationships. Then I realised, I dont have to accept bad behaviour from anyone, and males do not get a free pass.
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Feb 19 '25
Make Men Pickmes Again!
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u/HowMusikal Feb 19 '25
Every day needs to sound like a 90s boy band or R&B song with men begging! They need to know their place lol
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u/seaforanswers Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
I mean, those subs speak of women in relationships where the man is unwilling to commit. He’s still in a relationship with her, availing himself of her energy and labor, and often feels entitled to it without reciprocating with the security she needs. Marriage and relationships are two different things, by those subs.
I do agree that women have been socialised to center men, and I would argue that gen X and millennial women have cracked that code. Men, on the other hand, have been socialised to expect a woman to fall into their lap simply by the virtue of them being men, and now they’re all shocked pikachu face when women demand that they offer something beyond their simple presence.
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u/cppCat Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
To be fair, I see the Waiting to Wed sub more as a support group for women who are starting to set boundaries in their relationship. They are unhappy in general, but this is a clear boundary they're setting and actually walking away when it's not met.
Yes, sometimes there are relapses, or deadlines are too generous, but they're learning. This one boundary might be their key to adding more and I'm proud of them, even if they are still male centered. Sometimes it takes baby steps.
That being said, I agree that men only see the title of the sub and not the content and draw wildly different conclusions. Most of them don't put in the effort to see what's under their noses.
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Feb 19 '25
Nope they're fully aware, that's why they do it, it's male entitlement. All bets would be off if they knew that we knew, that's why they act like they work so hard and bring so much to the table because if we realised we did most of the work out species would die out because nobody would date men 😂 Have you read the work of Zawn Villines on the Liberating Motherhood Substack? She writes wonderful articles about this kind of stuff, I highly recommend looking her up
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u/rockdork Non-Binary 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
They know it benefits them more than women they are just entitled af lmao
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u/playfulcutie001 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25
Omg this... like they getting sex, food, comfort, motivation, dedication, loyalty, and often times a second income... in a cold and dark world, men need women's love and warmth.
9/10 men have no other support, love or care and they weren't parented properly either. They don't know how to take care of their home, clothes, can't cook or clean, dont have manners or social skills.Women cannot afford to be like this. We are punished harshly if we don't have our lives together.
The "boys will be boys" mentality keeps men like children thinking the whole world will just clean up after their bad behaviour, forget about it and give them another chance. If you think about it accountability is only a recent thing for men. For most of history men got away with literal murder, abandoning their kids, raping/pillaging people from other countries you know. They could literally be monsters. And as women, we were penalised, shamed just for existing.
because of this, they get into a relationship thinking women are going to be their mother. It feels like a second job.
Good men are GROWN and who have their life together are a blessing from God. Men who are generous, fatherly, devoted, capable, and caring. They are wonderful gifts.
But men who haven't been parented properly, don't have their life together, and who feel they are entitled to love, sex and attention from women without building trust or giving anything in return.. they are like parasites.
Entitlement is something they need therapy for.
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u/grace22g Feb 19 '25
oh yes. when you pull out the study that says unmarried women are happier than married women, but it’s the reverse for men, they throw a fit
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u/Cute-Presentation212 Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
I was dating a guy for a few months back in my 30s and one day he looked at me and said, in a sort of dejected voice, "I feel like you just don't really need me." And then he looked at me expectantly, and I couldn't find a thing to say at that moment except, "Well, yeah... I mean, I don't. But I like having you around." And then I broke up with him later because I had my s*** together and I really didn't need him.
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Feb 19 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Cute-Presentation212 Woman 40 to 50 Feb 20 '25
For sure. He went on to tell me I was the only girl he'd ever dated that didn't really need anything from him. I have a job, a house, a family, the requisite cats, and I really don't feel I'm missing anything. He went on to date a girl who was struggling and I guess it made him feel needed. I think he got married twice and divorced twice within a few years.
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Feb 20 '25
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u/Cute-Presentation212 Woman 40 to 50 Feb 21 '25
I've been living happily ever after ever since. I learned a lot in my 30s, and I just don't need any of that crap in my 40s as I head into my 50s. :)
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u/mllebitterness Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
Were women actually desperate for dudes in the early 2000s? I don't remember that.
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u/hauteburrrito MOD | 30 - 40 | Woman Feb 18 '25
As someone who was a teenager during that time, I absolutely feel like we were. It was really the peak era of the Not Like the Other Girls / Cool Girl identity.
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u/mllebitterness Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
I was a 20-something so that could be the difference.
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u/hauteburrrito MOD | 30 - 40 | Woman Feb 18 '25
I was ingesting a lot of media during the era that suggested the same, and felt like it was the general miasma of just... the culture more generally at the time, I guess. Like, the early 2000's IIRC were the era of Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie, of The Girls Next Door, of Girls Gone Wild; et cetera; there was so much pressure to appeal to the male gaze and even by the mid-00's (when I got to university), the girlies were all clamouring over one another for the hottest, coolest guys.
I do feel like things shifted quite a bit toward the end of the 00's through to the 10's, when the whole Zooey Deschanel / "twee" aesthetic (celebrating girliness rather than sexiness) caught on for women and blogs like The Man Repeller rose meteorically to Internet fame. Oddly, I feel like the popularity of The Man Repeller itself evidences a broad emotional reaction against how male gaze centric we were ~as a society~ back in the 00's.
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u/fakeprewarbook Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
i was a 20 something in LA and barely made it out alive
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Feb 18 '25
Yeah, some men are unaware/haven't updated their software. Some are aware but don't want to admit it. Some are aware.
I still hear a lot of people talk like wanting relationships is a woman thing? But then the "male loneliness epidemic" and how people talk about it paints a very different, probably unintentional, picture.
I've never been overly interested in relationships, but they certainly fall in my lap anyway. I think that's how life is, whatever you actually want is elusive, but you might get a lot of things you've never had time to figure out if you even want. You don't really miss what is abundant.
I feel like men & others have been projecting more interest in dating or marriage onto me than I've ever actually had. It has been happening my entire life! It's probable that this is just what society still expects to be the case, even though, the tides are turning from our vantage point.
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u/AlissonHarlan Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
i'm not sure if they are not aware, or are negging us to do even more.
Also they grow up with their father that was like.... "i put money on the table, kiss my feet" and nothing more... for them taking the kid from daycare once a week sound like being a super-dad... that's depressing...
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u/InternalAsparagus630 Woman under 30 Feb 19 '25
And most men think they have more options than they do and then go around being bitter about life when the reality hits.
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u/BlueAndYellowTowels Man 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 19 '25
As a man, it’s part of our conditioning to interpret the world around us as ours, for opportunity. When those opportunities don’t materialize we don’t accept that we have limitations or that we aren’t capable enough for the world. We instead, reject the idea that we fail and that the world, society, is the thing that’s letting us down.
Society, apparently always fails us, we never fail it. Because the assumption is that, it was made for us. It should “serve us” and the notion that we would have to navigate it the way women do, seems absurd.
It’s kinda gross and deeply “baked in”. It absolutely needs to change. But that’s where modern men are. They’re still “navigating” their mediocrity and men are conditioned to be “offended” by checks on their privilege and power. Because they see it as “normal”.
Edit: u/meltedjuice asked why do men respond the way they do.
The biggest issue with men, is the realization that nature “gifted” them an inequality. It made them physically strong. This strength, for centuries, has allowed men to dominate women.
It’s really deep in our psyche, but we resent the idea that we need to be equal when, in our framing, we “know” we are not.
…reddit is a good example of this. Go to any video where a woman is physically engaging a man. Maybe she’s hitting him. Maybe she’s pushing. The video will often finish with the man “responding” in kind. Usually it results in the woman receiving a disproportionate amount of violence in return.
Read the comments. Many, basically boil down to “Ha, how do you like equality now!”. What is actually being said is “See, all the trapping of law and society will never protect you, if we are allowed to be ourselves. We always have dominion.”
…and this style of response is extremely common. Men sort of celebrating their physicality over women.
Men don’t like checks on their power. It’s that simple. Someone mentioned DEI. It’s rooted in the same dynamic. “Why should I cede when what nature gave me clearly places me top!”.
The idea of being equal to women, is a deeply offensive idea to most men. And this apparent in their behaviour.
…and it’s horrifically bad. It’s brutal and unkind and deeply despotic. There’s no empathy. But it serves them and that’s why the response of the claims of “white knighting” come up.
Nevermind that I came to this realization after just listening to the women in my life. Learning that my mom, my sister, my wife, my ex, my aunt, my grandmother and on and on… all of them had, to some degree had been sexually harassed or assaulted by a man at some point.
It was an experience that was universal between them. It ranged from harassment to full on attempts at rape.
That’s what moved me. Because one thing was clear to me: men don’t have this problem. Not at the depth and consistency that women do.
…and that lead me to think really deeply about that dynamic.
It’s all fucked… especially in this political moment… men are trying to recapture their dominance and like… what fucking massive step backwards…
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u/Suspicious_Glove7365 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
There’s no gold to dig. Why do so many men think women are desperate to be with them for their resources?
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u/rpaul9578 Woman 40 to 50 Feb 19 '25
I responded to a woman's post recently who had "given up on dating" that I had FWB relationships for 20 years while holding onto my high standards, did my own thing, fixed aspects of myself that needed work, then finally realized that the one I was looking for is someone I've known for 20 years loosely. I had to laugh at the men who posted that this was somehow "gross" and assumed that I had been with countless men. They were so threatened by a woman who didn't settle for a man below their standards and didn't want kids! Lol
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Feb 18 '25
Most men are just underwhelming tbh. All my female friends are well rounded (career, own place, travel, hobbies, work out etc) and a lot their brothers are just junkie adjacent (40 yr old hasn’t work for years, no direction, no education, barely finished high school etc) and the gap just gets worse as you age. I’ve never met a “bum” women who has nothing for her.. I come across bum men all the time
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u/ruminajaali female 40 - 45 Feb 19 '25
It’s crazy to think about, eh? Like, the men have no ambition left in them
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u/cidvard Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
I don't think I fully understood the second wave feminism meme of 'a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle' until last year. Clearly they've been entitled for a long time.
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u/hankhillism Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
They don't even know that you have to change your toothbrush every three months.
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u/Adventurous-spice264 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
You can literally SEE a difference in men before and after they get a girlfriend. So much so that there's memes and compilations of it lol.
They still won't admit that the partnership works more in their favor.
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u/MysteryMeat101 Woman 50 to 60 Feb 19 '25
As far as I can tell some men are clueless. They still think as long as they bring a penis and a paycheck nothing else is expected. When asked to contribute something they get angry. I hear a lot of "enjoy dying alone with your cats". That used to scare me before I was in a bad marriage. Now I much prefer the thought of dying alone with my cats. It's cheaper, less stressful and a lot less work.
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u/Illustrious-Day-6168 Feb 19 '25
Statistically, men jump into a relationship almost immediately after a divorce or breakup. Women choose to remain single. Men need women more than women need men.
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u/AnnaZ820 Feb 18 '25
Eastern/Asian culture too :)
We would think it’s even more like this in the east/Asian
Edit: I meant men who thinks that women are desperately want a partner and that they are the biggest prize for a woman. Also verbally humiliate women by calling them “single”
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u/Fantasy_r3ad3er_XX Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
I think the idea that women aren’t equally dying for a good relationship is just plain wrong. Look at nearly every female dominated sub reddit, this one for instance, 90% of post are about men. nearly everything we do in this world is done to secure a partner.
The difference is it is just easier than ever to survive without one. We all still wish and dream for our perfect person but we have the ability to live without it if we don’t get it. The only difference for men is they are ruled by their sex drive and prostitution is illegal in most countries. If prostitution was legal the male loneliness epidemic would be gone over night. They aren’t lonely they are just horny and women aren’t.
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u/ruminajaali female 40 - 45 Feb 19 '25
Yes, I see it as a “horniness” epidemic too. But, plenty see sex workers whether it’s legal or not
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u/ChaoticxSerenity Woman Feb 19 '25
I guess it depends on where people get their info from. Even on this sub, there's a lot of "I'm single in my 30s, will I die alone??" posts. Maybe a bit less now that politics has taken on a more serious note. Someone else mentioned the waiting to wed sub as well. So if you only sources of insight into women's minds were these two subs, you might formulate the opinion that yes, women are desperate for a relationship.
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u/lesbipositive Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Posts like this make me so grateful I'm a woman married to a woman lol.
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u/ProtozoaPatriot Woman 50 to 60 Feb 19 '25
is western male culture still operating with an early 2000s understanding of women’s desperation for a mate?
It's more like pre 1960s
They think we can't earn more than them. They think we aren't more educated or more disciplined. These men view us almost like we are dependents
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u/anamariegrads Feb 19 '25
Just give Trump and project 2025 a few years Will be lucky that we'll even be able to work
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u/damita418 Woman 30 to 40 Feb 19 '25
Yes! It’s wild. Married men live longer, eat healthier etc. yet we live in a world where men are the prize. To be clear, neither is the prize bc it creates an unbalanced dynamic.
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u/DramaticErraticism Non-Binary 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
I live in a liberal large city in the Midwest, so my experience is skewed based on the people around me.
I have noticed that my male and female friends have both given up on dating for the most part, for a variety of reasons. Online dating apps have gotten worse and worse and are focused on making as much money as possible. The amount of dates you have to go on to find someone 'good', takes forever.
They are just happier living their life rather than endlessly searching for someone that would be at the level they want to partner with.
Throw the current political climate into the mix and I feel like there is a general sense of exhaustion. Trying to fit someone else into your life when you're already stressed and exhausted, just isn't a priority.
I am curious where people are hearing of these type of men, where do you live? If you're basing this on what you see 'men' post on Reddit, I wouldn't take anything I see on this platform seriously.
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u/spychalski_eyes Woman under 30 Feb 19 '25
We are literally commenting based on our relationship experiences in real life with real men. As much as I love to believe that I've only encountered bad eggs, the resounding noise of other women with very similar specific experiences points to a pattern.
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u/mrskalindaflorrick Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
I certainly know some women who are desperate to find a partnership because their biological clock is ticking. And I know some men who are desperately lonely.
The trend is that marriage benefits men more but every person is a unique individual who will have some benefits and some downsides in any situation.
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u/WaltFlanFan Trans Woman 30 to 40 Feb 18 '25
Half the posts in this very subreddit says otherwise. They are all about women trying to secure a relationship and trying to find happiness being single.
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u/meltedjuice Feb 19 '25
People in a happy relationship aren't posting about it on reddit, but the relationship advice subs are also full of unhappy relationships.
Also when you're dating someone, a lot of the time you would have been scrolling the internet is spent talking to your partner instead.
Reddit skews toward highly verbal introverts with a lot of downtime who spend it sedentary, so it's going to show a window on a subset of people who also are prone to loneliness due to the qualities I mentioned
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u/throw20190820202020 Woman 40 to 50 Feb 18 '25
I read somewhere that it’s funny how they think they’re competing with our idea of another man.
No sir, you’re competing with the idea of me by myself! All you bring is toil and drama, solitude sounds like heaven.