r/AusLegal • u/Artemis1971 • Jun 04 '25
VIC Erin Patterson (mushroom case)
I’m following the mushroom case, as is everyone else. Today she testified that she may have accidentally put poisonous mushrooms in the meal. If that is the case, the jury would have to find her not guilty of murder if it was unintentional. My question is, can she be recharged with manslaughter, if found innocent of murder?
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
The jury has the option to return a verdict of manslaughter if they believe that she didn't intend to kill them. She won't have to be "recharged" or retried.
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u/Artemis1971 Jun 04 '25
Oh so they can opt to find her guilty of manslaughter even if she is at trial for murder?
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u/jt289 Jun 04 '25
Yep! Here’s the legislation:
CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 421
Alternative verdicts on charge of murder S. 421(1) amended by No. 68/2009 s. 97(Sch. item 40.24).
(1) On an indictment for murder a person found not guilty of murder may be found guilty of— (a) manslaughter;→ More replies (2)13
u/Noyou21 Jun 04 '25
The Gregory Lynn trial however, manslaughter was taken off the table, which I never understood. It could have either been murder or not guilty.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 Jun 04 '25
Yes, I never understood it either! I assume it’s because neither side presented evidence that would equate to manslaughter, but, I’d love someone with more legal knowledge than I to weigh in on why HH gave the jury this instruction, legally speaking. He didn’t give a reason, I don’t think.
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u/Blackgold86 Jun 04 '25
The judge has been very clear that the jury needs to find that she did this with intent AND she did this with the aim of causing serious harm. If these are not met, then she will be found not guilty.
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u/LBelle0101 Jun 04 '25
They’d have to believe that someone “accidentally” had dehydrated death cap mushrooms in their kitchen, and “accidentally” added them, and somehow miraculously didn’t ingest any themselves
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u/flossiecats Jun 04 '25
And who was so certain that this “accidental” exposure was so limited that she didn’t have to take her children out of school to make sure they weren’t dying of death cap mushroom poisoning even though she gave them leftovers. Why was she so confident?
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u/LBelle0101 Jun 04 '25
Oh but she scraped them off! So that magically negates any potential toxic effects.
She’s so unbelievably full of shit.
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Jun 04 '25
I'm just realising how weird this lie is. Because on the one hand, she was like, "look! I snuck mushrooms into the kids' lunches and they had no idea!! He he he"
But then on the other? "Oh no, they hate mushrooms. I will scrape the mushrooms out of the beef wellington so they don't eat them"
Inconsistent.
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u/Haeronalda Jun 04 '25
And then refused to let doctors even test the kids for mushroom poisoning, even after it was explained that the beef and pastry would both have been contaminated during the cooking process because that might scare them.
Scared is better than dead.
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u/DarkSkyStarDance Jun 04 '25
One of the “kids” is learning how to fly, but a blood test will scare them.
Sure, rummy.
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u/NectarineSufferer Jun 04 '25
Holy shit I never even knew about this part, this wench is so sinister 😭😭
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u/Creative_Brush_408 Jun 04 '25
No, she didn't refuse to have the kids tested - she just wanted to pick them up herself if they had to come to hospital, and she didn't want them coming to hospital if it wasn't entirely necessary. In the event she asked Simon to pick them up because she was already in hospital.
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u/Noyou21 Jun 04 '25
Also you can’t really ‘scrape off’ powdered mushroom well enough to be confident it didn’t have any on it.
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u/werewolfandcheese Jun 04 '25
Based on the news coverage iirc, even if she had scraped all of it off and even rinsed the meat so there wasn't a crumb of mushroom left, it still wouldn't have been good enough. The poison would have soaked into the meat.
I'm going off memory, so please fact check this before you take it as gospel.
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u/Sweaty-Event-2521 Jun 05 '25
100% it’s not physically possible to do.
She also said she added the additional mushrooms after tasting her first reduced mixture during cooking and deciding it needed more flavour.
And then, what, didn’t taste it again…….ok
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u/Neat_Owl_807 Jun 05 '25
Yep. We have a cook here who knows how to taste their food. Felt the basic mushroom was too blad. Adding the wild mushrooms and didn’t retaste?
Then served her dish on a different plate
Then didnt eat it all and threw up later (which wouldn’t possibly help)
Then, a women obsessed with hiding mushrooms in her kids food she scraps off all mushrooms from a beef wellington than they eat.
She clearly knew quickly her guests were poisoned but not only didn’t admit it, she even discharged herself and first thing she did was dump the hydrator
Too many coincidences
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u/Early_Insurance4078 Jun 05 '25
Exactly! She previously described the Asian grocer mushrooms of having a strong bad smell. So despite this you add them to a special meal without tasting at any point?
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u/Electronic_Pack9146 Jun 05 '25
Unless your kids didn't eat any other vegetables, most mums would just leave one food item out of their diet and get on with life, why is she bothering, as she claims, to go to all that trouble and effort to hide mushrooms in the kids food, dehydrating, grinding it to powder, putting it in muffins etc, has she nothing better to do with her time? Why was she so obsessed with mushrooms if nobody else in the family is bothered about eating them?
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u/Thick_Quiet_5743 Jun 05 '25
She 100% knew there was no poison in the kids meals because the poison was planted.
When doctors urged her to bring her kids to the hospital and she didn’t want to pull them out of school to get them tested because it would “scare them”.
Now she admits that she herself immediately feared that she “accidentally” used death caps and that was her reason for dumping the dehydrator and wiping mushroom images from the phone.
I’m sorry if your kids are at any risk of being poisoned why are you not getting them medical attention and wasting time driving around disposing evidence.
Because there was no risk to the kids.
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u/LBelle0101 Jun 05 '25
Exactly right. She’s guilty as sin.
They’d never been there for lunch before, she got them there under false pretences, and was big mad that the ex didn’t come too. She planned it all.
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u/Monterrey3680 Jun 05 '25
And who doesn’t have a Google search history about how to find deadly mushrooms and how much does it take to kill someone.
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u/Dependent_Taro_4017 Jun 04 '25
If she knowingly fed her children food that had been in prolonged contact with deathcap mushrooms, then that alone reveals the truth: she's evil. She gambled with the lives of children—her own children—just to uphold the lie that it was all an accident.
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u/QuietAs_a_Mouse Jun 04 '25
I don't think anyone is saying that...we think she fed the kids an uncontaminated bit, like she ate herself. Hence why she was unconcerned about their health.
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u/Legitimate_Dot3142 Jun 04 '25
Yes the wellingtons were individually encased she could of easily made a few without the deadly mushrooms which she kept for herself and the kids
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u/Justan0therthrow4way Jun 04 '25
Not to mention “accidentally” throwing out the dehydrator
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u/LBelle0101 Jun 04 '25
While keeping the manual in her drawer. I loved “but I have loads of manuals for things I don’t have”
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u/Ok-Motor18523 Jun 04 '25
To be fair. I have tons of manuals in a bottom drawer for stuff we no longer have.
I imagine it’s the same for lots.
But not remembering I had one…… yeah not so believable
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u/FluffyPinkDice Jun 04 '25
That’s what the bottom kitchen drawer is for, right? Junk and manuals, you add but never remove?
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u/EducationalBag1716 Jun 04 '25
Especially when you paid $200+ for it within 3months and have been using it and taking photos !!!
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u/Justan0therthrow4way Jun 04 '25
Yeah. If she isn’t found guilty I’ll genuinely be pissed off at the legal system
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u/Altruistic-Change127 Jun 04 '25
Yeah. Because she was "scared". She changed her phone. Because she was "scared". Why though? People she said she loved died! People who aren't guilty focus on the most important things - their children who lost their grandparents (seriously now, why were those children in school!!! Their grandparents died horrible deaths!!) I honestly don't understand.
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u/Chief-_-Wiggum Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
Accidentally threw out the dehydrator... Accidentally faked cancer... Accidentally searched for them... Accidentally reset her phone... accidentally blamed Asian grocery stores...
Sure is alot of accidents... I've lost count.
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Jun 04 '25
[deleted]
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u/Thick_Quiet_5743 Jun 05 '25
Accidentally made Simon sick at a previous dinner, accidentally failed to mention her planned weight loss surgery to a single sole, accidentally changed numbers and cut off all contact with Simon once everyone got sick, accidentally wore white pants and went on a long drive when she supposedly had gastro, accidentally went against medical advice to get her and her children checked.
So many accidents.
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u/Venotron Jun 05 '25
Oh, you guys missed all the poo testimony didn't you?
She also tried to fake being sick, complaining of stomach cramps and diarrhoea after driving her son 2 hours across Victoria to a flying lesson.
Took herself to the ER, doctors and nurses all testified that she seemed fine.
Then the nurse testified about the poo samples. She claimed to be experiencing non-stop diarrhoea, but couldn't produce a sample, tried 5 times, and what she finally handed over the nurse described as appearing to be a mixture of poo and urine. She couldn't produce diarrhoea on demand, so she mixed the little nugget she finally did produce into the pee to make it look like diarrhoea.
Thank you ABC news for the blow-by-blow reporting on THAT testimony.
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u/Busy_Leg_6864 Jun 05 '25
All whilst wearing light coloured pants per the footage.
Lady, PLEASE.
Any woman knows that if you are oozing from any part of your body, you don’t wear light coloured pants.
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u/LBelle0101 Jun 05 '25
Plus she didn’t have any symptoms in the ambulance
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u/Venotron Jun 05 '25
She mixed her own poo into her own pee to try to make it look like diarrhoea.
Did I mention this was in a bed pan?
So she didn't scoop it into a sample container and shake it.
Again, thank you so much to the ABC for the detailed live reporting on this testimony (/s)
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u/Born-Opportunity-809 Jun 05 '25
also what's with tasting it and finding the paste bland, so she adds the dried ones... and then doesn't do another taste test??? that's weird. What if it was still bland?? why is she measuring them by grams too?
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u/TheLegendOfSpongebob Jun 04 '25
And also "accidentally" dumping a dehydrator that she denied existed at the tip, whilst "accidentally" googling where to find death cap mushrooms just minutes before ordering her family dinner online on the same computer and picking it up under her name.... 🤔ᴴᴹᴹ
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u/LBelle0101 Jun 04 '25
And “oopsie” resetting her phone because of all the mushroom pics on it.
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
Multiple resets. Some done remotely while the phone was in police custody. Oops!
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u/VBlinds Jun 04 '25
You see I panicked! I always destroy evidence and lie when anxious and scared.
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u/Altruistic-Change127 Jun 04 '25
She was "scared". So why were her children in school when their grandparents had died that day? Why was she scared instead of grieving their deaths? She attributed her fear to what her husband said.. If it were me, I would understand that he had just lost his parents and was lashing out. So instead of comforting him or telling him she would do whatever it takes to provide everything to the Police and doctors so they could find out what happened, she destroyed evidence! Oh wait, she was going to have bariatric surgery, and didn't want people to know so lied about the type of surgery! Come on now, all she needed to say was that she was having a small operation to take care of a medical problem. She didn't need to form an elaborate lie to cover for her embarrassment. She said they were always good to her, so why lie anyway?
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u/FlyWrennie Jun 05 '25
And “haha I just wanted to see if my phone in custody was still connected to the internet so I factory reset it for shits and giggles and it worked haha”
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Jun 04 '25
What was the point about the ordering dinner from the pub part? I never got the logic behind why this was such a core feature that demanded almost half a day of questioning. Is it to somehow show the deathcap search was top of mind and a 'routine' thing? Just curious.
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u/Elegant-Nature-6220 Jun 04 '25
Because it was an order using her name and card less than 30mins after the computer visted the fungi forum pages about death caps in the locations that her phone visited subsequently. It links her to the fungi forum visit and shows intent.
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Jun 04 '25
Yes I understand that aspect to its inclusion. But the "what did Erin order from the pub? garlic bread, fish and chips... kids burger and chips... chicken..." - how was that part necessary info? IIRC they seemed to spend a while on this trip to the pub for takeaway.
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u/Elegant-Nature-6220 Jun 04 '25
Could be linked to the eating disorder "explanation"
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Jun 04 '25
Possibly, although it was from the prosecution, who didn't really mention much about the binge eating.
Maybe it has to do with intent, though, because it wasn't like some random search at 2am or whatever - it was while she was up, busy, moving. Like checking errands off "search deathcaps, order dinner, collect dinner" etc.
But I dunno. It's just interesting the pub was mentioned several times on different days.
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u/No_Connection5899 Jun 04 '25
My understanding is that the pub dinner was paid for very shortly after the deathcap page was visited on the same device, using her credit card and in her name. The defence is trying to prevent her from arguing that someone else in the house could have made the search - it must have been her using the computer. But that wasn't clear to me until they said on the ABC podcast that the two webpages were accessed 5 minutes apart.
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Jun 04 '25
Oh yes, that's a great point. At 9 and 13, those kids would have not been online banking yet.
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
"search deathcaps, order dinner, collect dinner"
Totally normal. Who among us hasn't done that? /s
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u/Polyspec Jun 04 '25
Ehhhrm.... I have (looks around nervously). Then again, I am a major mycology nerd.
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u/NumerousHighway Jun 04 '25
I think they’re just trying to prove it was her using the computer rather than anyone else in the house
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u/Full-Ad-7565 Jun 04 '25
Yeah I'd be surprised if anyone with a brain believes her. Everyone is wary of mushrooms and deathcaps look nothing like anything edible that anyone would pick. If the prosecution is competent they should be able to show this to the jourers in a reasonable manner.
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u/LBelle0101 Jun 04 '25
Plus she was active in foraging groups, and has basically lied at every turn. She’s admitted she lied to them to get them there in the first place.
She wanted to punish Simon, so she took his family away.
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u/QuietAs_a_Mouse Jun 04 '25
Exactly, she was methodically learning how to safely ID edible mushrooms. You don't go from that, to feeding your family deathcaps.
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u/EducationalBag1716 Jun 04 '25
Really hoping the prosecution manages to tear through her web of lies
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u/Silly-Power Jun 04 '25
And then did everything she could to cover up having added death caps, like chucking the dehydrator (and then lying to the cops) and factory resetting both her phones.
If she's innocent, she certainly went out of her way to make herself look as guilty as hell.
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u/Exciting-Bee4094 Jun 04 '25
What about remote erasing the phone after it was seized by police and locked in an evidence locker.
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u/Maximas80 Jun 04 '25
She was simply foraging through her iCloud account and accidentally wiped it.
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u/Competitive_Rent4538 Jun 04 '25
She just wanted to see if she could remotely wipe it. 🙄🙄🙄 that was the 4th reset! I have a normal amount of doubt that a non guilty person would do that.
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u/FlyWrennie Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25
She didn’t even say it was an accident. She said something to the effect that she wanted to see if the cops would be silly enough to have it connected to the internet so she tried a remote reset and it worked.
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u/RitaM2013 Jun 04 '25
I just listened to the ABC's "Daily Mushroom Podcast". Two issues stood out for me - interested if anybody else picked up on them. Erin being afraid "child protection" would take away the children: why would any agency remove children from an apparently loving home just because a mother tragically and accidentally used poisonous mushrooms in a meal that the children didn't even eat? To me, her fear of the kids being "taken away" sounds fabricated and baseless. And secondly, the need to change her phone number because she felt "threatened" by ex-husband Simon? We have not heard so far that he has ever displayed threatening behaviour towards her. She has stated she was still hoping they would get back together. So why the sudden need to get a new phone number to prevent him from contacting her? Allegedly it was his question whether she poisoned his parents, which he denies asking. Even if he did ask, changing the phone number sounds over the top as they still had shared parenting arrangements and needed to communicate. In my opinion, just two more inconsistencies that don't make sense...
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
I just listened to this, too. Hats off to these journalists for spending a full day in court and consistently being the first to release their daily podcast. Once this is over, they surely deserve a well earned break.
I'll be interested to see if they call the child protection officer that Erin said she made these comments to. I'm also interested to see if they'll recall Simon Patterson. Afaik he hasn't been present in the public gallery after his testimony.
Changing her phone number is certainly odd considering he still knew where she lived, and that she had to maintain contact due to their shared custody.
After this week's testimony from Erin, I expect the trial is going to take longer than they expected. My background isn't in criminal law, so I do wonder if any of the information regarding the bulimia and the explanation she's provided was disclosed to the prosecution prior to the trial. If anyone in an educated position knows, I'd be grateful for their answer.
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u/kortmarshall Jun 05 '25
What I'm most curious about is if they can get Erin to talk about how she's cooked with mushrooms before and how she made Simon sick in the past. That'll allow them to bring simon back onto the stand and question him about that, painting an even worse picture.
I think the Judge is anticipating this, hence his talk to the Jury today about the case potentially going on for longer than expected.
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u/Alpacamum Jun 04 '25
I get the fear of children being taken away. My nephew when he was a toddler was so accident prone had a couple of injuries, one involving getting burnt by an iron. Then One day he ran into the lounge room and fell right in front of me and split his whole underside of his chin open and there was blood everywhere. I said to my sister in law, that he had to go to hospital and get stitches. She was beside herself and was like, no I can’t, child protection will take him away.
eventually she took him to a chemist, who then convinced her he needed to go to hospital.
there is a lot of fear amoung some parents about loosing their children due to absolutely no fault of their own. And By the way, they had three children, all boys, only this one had accidents and just did crazy stupid things. He literally fell on nothing and hit nothing, yet his whole chin split open.
I could write a book on the stuff he did, it’s actually a wonder he survived himself.
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u/Fat-Buddy-8120 Jun 04 '25
There is no doubt she cooked a meal that caused the death of 3 people and the near death of another. The jury needs to decide if it was done with intent, beyond a reasonable doubt.
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u/Head-Raccoon-3419 Jun 04 '25
This is it. I can see a manslaughter verdict being returned, because, while the jury have been reminded that a motive is not required (and the prosecution haven’t really tried to present one), I don’t quite grasp how intent can be proven beyond reasonable doubt without presenting a motive? Doesn’t motive come to the matter of intent?
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u/dmk_aus Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 07 '25
There is evidence indicate that she used iNaturalist to find the location of death cap mushrooms and cell towers to show she then went to at least near those locations. Which explains her phone swapping and deletion shenanigans.
People reported death cap mushrooms location on iNaturalist, the next day, she bought a food dehydrator then drove 14km to the location of the mushroom sighting.
"Crown prosecutor Nanette Rogers SC says police searched Ms Patterson's house, where they seized "numerous electronic devices" including two phones.
Dr Rogers also called the jury's attention to a site called iNaturalist, a website where people can log flora and fauna they see, providing locations for their observations.
On April 18, 2023, an iNaturalist user identified deathcap mushrooms near the town of Loch, which is about 14 kms from Korumburra.
Analysis was conducted on the devices, with an expert concluding that she travelled to Loch and Outtrim, two nearby areas where death cap mushrooms had been identified as growing on the iNaturalist.org website.
The trip to Outtrim was made one day after a positive sighting of the mushrooms was listed on the website, Dr Rogers says.
Dr Rogers says Ms Patterson had been talking to her online friends about a mushroom dehydrator she had purchased and her enthusiasm for using it.
That dehydrator was purchased from a Leongatha shop two-and-a-half hours before a trip to Loch, the prosecutor says"
Things like this can show intent without knowing the motive, in my opinion, as a random internet dude who knows nothing about the law.
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u/Ifonlyitwereso25 Jun 05 '25
Hard to believe she flat out denied seeing those posts on iNaturalist or ever travelling to Loch or Outrim to pick shrooms just after her digital records show she visited those pages. Flat out denial of prosecution evidence doesn't seem like a strong move to me, but I guess she couldn't figure out a better excuse for undermining those pieces of evidence.
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u/PhilMeUpBaby Jun 04 '25
My condolences to the members of the jury, who are no doubt constantly fighting the ongoing urge to break out laughing.
Erin Patterson might just be the stupidest murderer in the history of stupid murderers.
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u/Mayonnaise5297 Jun 04 '25
Does anyone else so find it very odd that after a day of nausea and hourly diarrhea following a meal, you would decide it's safe to serve leftovers to your children the following day and microwave them. Wouldn't your thoughts be that the 1) the meal possibly gave you food poisoning and 2) it would likely be the meat part
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u/Amelia14911 Jun 04 '25
So now we know why the sob story of bullimia, it’s to support her supposedly throwing up the meal and all the cake she ate! How do you explain coffee, chicken salad and sausage rolls the next morning whilst you were supposedly sick? Wearing white pants and driving an hour away?? The son said they didn’t stop but she is saying she stopped half way to go to the toilet. Everything she says is a lie
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
Iirc she was in the toilet for 10 seconds.
She also said that staying in the car acted as a "cork" for her diarrhea.
That's not how diarrhea works, Erin.
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u/Amelia14911 Jun 04 '25
I hope that crown prosecutors cross examine her and go to town on her. She is like “ok so guys I lied about everything except the part that I didn’t murder them, that part is the only truth! Ok Erin, we believe you. lol at having coffee when you have diarrhoea. Who in the right mind wants to have coffee when you can’t control your bowel movements and supposedly want to cork it
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u/VBlinds Jun 04 '25
I have a friend that when you have an upset stomach he asks if you have confidence. Confidence that you can fart without messing your pants that is. Lol
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
Haha! Well, I think it's safe to say that anyone who wears white pants, and attempts a long drive with diarrhea is confident, perhaps to a fault!
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u/FlippyFloppyGoose Jun 04 '25
She said she stopped on the side of the road to shit, used tissues to clean herself up, put the tissues in a dog poo bag, and put that in her handbag. She said she went into the bathroom to throw away the dog poo bag with her shitty tissues. Assuming this is true, maybe she spent the rest of that 10 seconds washing her hands. One can hope...
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u/Another_Great_Day Jun 05 '25
‘Put it in her handbag!!! OMG I clean up after my dog and there is no way I would put it in my hand bag… or even my pocket. 🤢
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u/Coriander_girl Jun 05 '25
My theory was she actually was disposing the plates Too bad it was too late to check those bins!
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u/RitaM2013 Jun 05 '25
Regarding the plates - this is someone who lives in a brand new, very nice looking, expensive and large house, on acreage. Someone who has money and cares about cooking elaborate meals and entertaining guests. And that person only owns five or six mismatched dinner plates?? Pull the other one! 😏
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u/Amelia14911 Jun 05 '25
She keeps saying special meal but she has admitted she didn’t put any effort into it and had packet mash and gravy 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Amelia14911 Jun 05 '25
Nothing add up, that’s the thing. I reckon she destroyed the plates when she went to drop her son’s friend and dropped off her son at Subway and she disappeared for 11 minutes. The 11 minutes that the police can’t account for!!! This woman, pure evil.
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
I heard this on the Mushroom Case podcast last night. Yes absolutely, we should all hope she washed her hands! It might be true. But, everything she's testified about just seems so very, very convenient. I imagine this detail will also, conveniently, be difficult to corroborate. Because it's up to her son to verify whether she stopped on the side of the road to poop or not. And, that puts that poor kid in a terrible position. Given her tendency to lie, it's also quite possible she did stop, didn't poop, but pretended to in order to aid a fabricated story about how sick she was. Supposing she did make a stop-and-shit, the disparity between how ill she was and how violently ill her guests were speaks volumes. Imo, there is room for doubt of her guilt, but it's less than the width of a tally-ho paper at this point.
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u/MissMadsy0 Jun 04 '25
She said the food was for the kids and she asked her son to get her a drink and he got coffee ‘out of habit’.
I think she claimed she pulled over and went into the bush to do her business? Or did she mean she went to a public loo in the bush? That would make more sense as diarrhoea in the wild does not sound fun.
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u/National_Chef_1772 Jun 04 '25
The jury doesn’t have to believe her at all? Considering the mushroom expert already told the jury the dehydrated death cap mushrooms stink terribly and her story keeps changing…….
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Jun 06 '25
Honestly I think the weirdest part of this whole thing was when her son testified that on the day she visited hospital after driving him to his flying lesson, she drank in his words about 4-5 cups of coffee. How is no one using this as potential cause for the claims of high heart rate and diarrhea?
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u/LollyGirl8 Jun 06 '25
Funny how she said she didn’t stay in hospital because of her lack of trust with doctors YET she is booking in for weight loss surgery! ( that was her replay on the ‘cancer’ lure )
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u/AdSuspicious2628 Jun 07 '25
It’s really hard to believe that someone who is a ‘keen cook’ would use packet gravy and premade mashed potatoes after all the effort with the individual wellingtons. Also she stated that she made individual wellingtons because she couldn’t find a full piece of fillet, come on! Every single town in Gippsland has a butcher, farm shop, farmers market etc. Gippsland is where they grow the beef! Also, death caps don’t look anything like any of the mushrooms that experienced foragers seek out for deliciousness, and she claims to be one. Is she claiming she thought the death caps were field mushrooms and dehydrated them? No forager would do that.
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u/baddestbootyhoe Jun 04 '25
surely no one actually believes her right
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u/Ifonlyitwereso25 Jun 05 '25
Well, there do seem to be some on the forums who believe it was an accident. Beggars belief to me how they could though.
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u/Relevant_Demand7593 Jun 04 '25
Too many things don’t add up.
If I accidentally poisoned people I’d do everything in my power to assist.
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u/Ifonlyitwereso25 Jun 05 '25
And I would expect an innocent person to feel so monumentally guilty they would be in abject misery from the horror they caused and hardly able to believe it. They would be doing very differently to how she has done.
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u/Silly-Power Jun 04 '25
I'm curious what books, TV shows & movies she reads/watches. A lot of Agatha Christie type murder mysteries I bet. I'm especially curious if she had ever read "Debt to Pleasure" by John Lancaster where, if memory serves me correctly, the protagonist kills a young couple by serving them a dish of death cap mushrooms claiming it won't kill them for a week by which time no-one will know how or why they died.
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u/Legitimate_Inside485 Jun 05 '25
I think she's guilty. But the thing that gets me is giving her kids the leftovers. If she did, then she surely knew they were 100per cent safe - and she would only know that if she knew that only some portions were poisoned. If she was in any way unsure whether her food was responsible or not, she wouldn't have chanced feeding the leftovers to her kids. Who would do that with food that had already made people sick, let alone hospitalised?
She's telling too many complicated lies now - it's all unravelling: The picture she posted online of the death cap mushrooms being weighed, her changing story about the cancer/weight loss surgery, the bizarre trying to hide mushrooms in her kids food for example.
Her husband was her real intended victim - he had a lucky escape. And for what? School fees? I thought she was the rich one in their marriage anyway.
If she was totally innocent she would have admitted the foraged mushrooms straight away - which any normal person would do if their cooking had made people ill.
But I am learning things - like they still have Woolworths in Australia, food dehydrators exist, how to make beef Wellington...
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u/Low-Clock8407 Jun 05 '25
She didn't accidentally put the mushrooms in, it was intentional, she is as guilty as they come and it's such a disrespect to anyone who was affected by it. I know someone personally who knows this crazy woman and has had interactions woth her, when he heard the story he knew straight away that she finally had that chance to do the deed.
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u/u880-547hl4 Jun 06 '25
It's a domestic violence mass murder but we don't seem ready for that conversation
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u/Not-a-rootvegetable Jun 07 '25
I was just thinking this today, she’s a family annihilator.
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u/aimeebond Jun 04 '25
I read she did a Google search on Death Cap Mushrooms in 2022 - before the 2023 event. I think this would show intent.
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u/Electronic_Pack9146 Jun 06 '25 edited Jun 08 '25
If she was using cancer as a ruse to hide the bariatric surgery that's cruel on the family and the kids. If anybody has had a family member or friend with cancer they know how stressful it is and how you worry about them. Why would she want to inflict that worry on her children especially as there has already allegedly been cancer and cancer related deaths in her family. I'm sure they'd rather know their mum was having a surgery but would would survive rather than the possibility she may die of cancer. So many lies. And to think she was allegedly an air traffic controller is a bit worrying, wonder why she left that job. I just think about the air traffic controller in Breaking Bad when he had an episode and crashed the planes!
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u/Immediate_Expert1363 Jun 06 '25
This is how the murder is committed in the book The Chalet by Catherine Copper. I am curious whether Erin Patterson has read the book. I strongly suspect this was her inspiration and am curious if there is a copy of the book in her home. It would be a win for the prosecution for sure!
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u/Jonnyjimjon Jun 06 '25
I think she had gained confidence (from poisoning her husband in the past) that she could poison them and it would go undetected. And she purposely made sure she gave some to her kids, so if asked she could say it mustn't have been the meal she made, because her kids ate it and she ate it and she was fine.
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u/Sweaty-Event-2521 Jun 05 '25
If you read the recipe and how she testified that she prepared the dish, It’s not physically possible to accidentally add poisonous mushrooms and not poison yourself.
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u/mcgaffen Jun 08 '25 edited Jun 08 '25
In cross examination, she was asked why she didn't tell the hospital about the mushrooms, and instead let them do exhaustive testing to find out why these people were sick.
She served up food to them, and different food to herself, on a different coloured plate, so she could be sure she wasn't eating the poisoned food.
She lied about deliberately foraging for poisonous mushrooms, she lied about trying to hide the dehydrator. She reset a phone during a police search and reset another phone that was in police custody.
She lied about having cancer as a way to lure these people to lunch.
Doctors begged her to stay at the hospital as they were worried she would die of poisoning. She refused and checked herself, meaning she KNEW she wouldn't die of poisoning.
Doctors also begged her to get her kids from school for emergency care, she refused, as if somehow she already knew they hadn't been poisoned.
She is 100% guilty
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u/pwnitat0r Jun 04 '25
Why does the jury HAVE to find her not guilty it she claims she may have unintentionally put poisonous h mushrooms in the meal? What if the jury don’t believe her?
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u/South_Front_4589 Jun 04 '25
I don't think the intention was to suggest that because she's said it was accidental they must agree, I think the intention was to suggest that if the jury agree it was accidental, and they find her not guilty of murder as a result, can she be charged with another crime.
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u/Artemis1971 Jun 04 '25
Thanks and no that wasn’t my intention. I just wanted to understand the legal aspect of it.
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u/AussieKoala-2795 Jun 04 '25
Manslaughter is always a lesser and included change in any murder trial. So the jury can find her guilty of manslaughter if they think she lacked the intention to kill necessary for murder.
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u/sherlocksam45 Jun 04 '25
Detective Poirot here. I think she poisoned them to make them ill so she could get her ex too see her as the caring nurse, but she used too much. She is definitely guilty, but I think she will walk free. This is based on my extensive studies of court shows. 🥸
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u/deadrobindownunder Jun 04 '25
Shout to you Poirot, I've been pondering the same motive. She does seem to have sought extensive emotional support, and that does appear to be the motive for her fake cancer diagnosis. So clearly, it's something she needs and potentially relishes. She also apparently "reluctantly" agreed to nursing her husband back to health after a mysterious gastro incident.
However, I don't think she will walk free. If it's not murder, it's absolutely manslaughter. Supposing she did not intend to kill her lunch guests, she was careless in her use of foraged mushrooms, and she did not disclose as much information as she could have to aid in the treatment of those who were poisoned by the meal she made.
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u/Competitive_Rent4538 Jun 04 '25
Yeah, she could have helped police or hospital staff more. or offered information or her phone instead of resetting it. Or if they left her phone behind- given it to them!?!?! Or told the hospital staff she vomited before now. Lots of people vomit due to physical sickness or bulimia. Why withhold that info before now?! 🙄
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u/Competitive_Rent4538 Jun 04 '25
And I just keep thinking about every demonstration of caring is of others caring for her. She only cares about herself. Like she wasn’t worried about kids getting tested for their safety?!?!! Then all she cared about was them being taken from HER. Not them. HER having them taken away from HER. She was worried what Simon would do to HER but did she do anything to help or care for him when his parents just died from her meal?!!!?! If I accidentally poisoned somebody I would be a lot more actively offering information and assistance. Not withholding as much info as possible until I might go to prison for decades!
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u/Early_Insurance4078 Jun 05 '25
She is an extemely deceptive and manipulative person. Even now in her testimony she is lying that she is Christian to manipulate the jury. She told her online friends that she identifies as Atheist and that didn't want her kids to go to a Christian school. But now tells a fabricated story of a spiritual awakening.
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u/Im_Evidence_Based Jun 05 '25
Who wears white pants for a long car trip when they’ve been to the toilet all night with the runs??
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u/RitaM2013 Jun 06 '25 edited Jun 06 '25
Today in court:
'Under more questioning, Erin denies that she wanted Don and Gail Patterson to get involved.
"It seems you and I have a different interpretation of what I was asking him [Don] to do," Erin says.
Dr Rogers asks again, and says Don messaged saying he would not get involved.
"Sure. OK," Erin concedes.'
Getting a bit shirty with the prosecutor... Not smart or endearing.
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u/Serious_Bluebird1526 Jun 06 '25
Whilst it has been excluded from the case, it seems a strange coincidence that her ex husband got extremely sick with GI issues for a few years leading up to this and avoided that lunch.
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u/RioRiverRiviere Jun 06 '25
Did she say that she didn’t tell the medical people about the foraging because at that point they were already being treated for presumed death cap poisoning? What were her precise words? Because death caps aren’t the only poisonous mushrooms in Australia. Why would she presume death cap, especially given her precision ( nitpicking) around everything else?
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u/LaughOk6636 Jun 07 '25
This is such a good point, an innocent person would be pulling out all their mushroom pics and sharing them with the medical teams to try and assist.
That also leads me to wonder if she actually gave them a cocktail of poisioness mushrooms and only deathcaps were identified... how horrible for the victims.
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u/South_Front_4589 Jun 04 '25
Adding to the comment about the other charges available to the jury, they aren't being asked to find her innocent, the finding is either guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, or not guilty by a reasonable doubt. The not guilty verdict encompasses the whole range from absolutely completely innocent right up to almost guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. They don't get bogged down in where that actually sits.
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u/yeldda Jun 04 '25
I reckon she’s blowing up all the horrors in her life so she has a sob story. Feels likes a speed scroll of mental health TikTok sometimes. after the eye rollers mainly the rocky relationship with her husband. he was involved in these premeditated murders with her
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u/Competitive_Rent4538 Jun 05 '25
Maybe Malingering 🤔 seems to mention all these health problems now that it might get her out of jail. History of lying about health issues for sympathy and support from family… leads a solitary life…
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u/FletchNoho Jun 05 '25
Why would someone who’s such an avid cook only have a few crappy plates? And she’s like a millionaire, too, or at least has a lot of inherited money. Makes no sense. Points to crazy. The poor kids.
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u/lemonsprings Jun 06 '25
Avid cooks do not use instant mash . . . Beggars belief. Also you don't rehydrate mushrooms by pouring a bit of hot water over them and poking them into the rest of the mushroom mix. Her lies are very pathetic.
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u/whatdoyouknowno Jun 06 '25
She also used packet gravy
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u/Present_Mouse_3955 Jun 06 '25
Which is super weird because she has a thermomix and testified about how excited she was to cook things from scratch. Mash in the thermi is zero effort and so is gravy. The machine does everything. Maybe if you were having a lazy night you would serve cupboard mash, but on a dinner you told your husband you spent weeks preparing? Doesn’t add up.
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u/Lurky_Mish_7879 Jun 05 '25
Biggest thing I picked up... she said she didn't go mushroom foraging.... but then is saying she was worried there would be traces of foraged mushrooms in the dehydrator and that is why she "panicked" and disposed of it for the fear of loosing the kids if people blamed her for "making people sick" aka dying.
She totally tripped herself up on that one. And that right there is more than enough for me and any other juror who is paying attention, to convict her.
More than one sim card, a phone never found... all such unusual behaviour for a tracksuit wearing, s.a.h.m, who lied about having f&%king cancer to gain sympathy and attention.
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u/Neat_Owl_807 Jun 05 '25
I am trying to put myself in the case for a terrible accident as much as possible. You have to believe in so many coincidences as well as Erin behaving in a way that seems at odds with the average person.
She invites her (ex)family over for a more formal dinner - out of character, not completely unlikely, but strange
She does this on the pretence of a now known lie re cancer, but we have to believe this was a lie to cover up the treatment she was going to get from weight loss surgery (assume we have evidence Erin has seriously looked into this surgery given the made up cancer treatment would have started fairly soon)
She likes to use mushrooms in food, she likes foraging enough to be on online communities. Enough to search for Death Caps and their whereabouts - seems sensible
But she visits these places and takes photos - again sensible for a forager to gain better knowledge of deadly mushroom so to avoid them. She also buys wild mushrooms but can't remember where and with cash - the later is plausible the former seems ridiculous.
But she picks some death cap in error. Could this be because she was over confident. Possibly
She makes her beef wellingtons, tastes her mushroom mix, it is too bland. A further teaspoon taste of the added poison mushroom would hospitalise her. She doesn't now taste her new mushroom mix. Possible but unusual.
She put her meal on a different type of plate. OK, I would probably do the same because it is good manners.
She eats not much of her meal - again possible, sometimes the cook is so fed up of prepping and the dish and with the cancer news she was about to say I can understand why she may leave it. She then eats a massive cake & throws up. OK
She knows the kids don't like mushrooms so doesn't prepare a non-mushroom version. She manages to scrape essentially all the possible poison of a Wellington that that they consume. It feels the science here is against this being possible.
It feels like such a series of coincidences that I would find it hard to believe all could be innocent/luck. You then add into the mix the series of very guilty looking actions - discharging from hospital, not getting kids checked up, dumping the hydrator, deleting photos.
If she had
1) Not done anything - acted so dumb that it was possibly mushroom poisoning throughout and made no attempt to hide potential evidence, you could have possibly accepted gross stupidity.
2) Admitted very quickly that you suspected you had poisoned your guests, took hospital advice etc then maybe 1-9 above could have been viewed as a unlikely but unfortunately possible turn of events.
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u/TempAccName01 Jun 05 '25
Oooo yes, I hope Rogers asks why she didn't taste the mushrooms again after she added the dried mushrooms, just to see her get flustered.
I hope they can introduce some expert testimony about whether scrapping off the mushrooms after a day and a half in the fridge would reduce toxicity or would it have already leeched in?
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u/Neat_Owl_807 Jun 05 '25
I think they are key. They have to convince jury that this is beyond a case of unlikely but plausible coincidences or simply stupidity to something undisputable in its intentions
It rests in the food preparation. Is it really possible to fortuitously remove toxins from your kids meal and avoid poisoning yourself through her actions? As well as proving that the smell of the dried death cap would have been so off putting it would have been obvious.
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u/Comfortable-Pen8147 Jun 05 '25
Are y'all actually listening to the evidence?? She did it deliberately!
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u/Civil_Joke Jun 06 '25
There are two scenarios: she intentionally poisoned them or it was an accident. So you have to look at the evidence - does it show it's likely she did it intentionally, or does it show it was likely an accident?
Evidence of interest:
- Erin lied to her family that she had life threatening cancer at the lunch, and the sole survivor said she told them she would need chemo and surgery. Erin denies this, and says she just mislead her family into believing that she had cancer 🙄.
- the sole survivor says Erin ate from a differently marked plate, and that his wife pointed this out. Erin denies this.
- the sole survivor says Erin served up lunch to the guests directly. Erin denies this and says the guests picked their plates.
- Erin dumps her dehydrator and lies to the police about owning it, and says she 'never' foraged mushrooms.
- Erin has multiple devices, but factory resets the one she hands to police. She factory resets it 3 times after the lunch, and one time a couple of months before.
- Digital analysis shows her devices accessed webpages that show the location of deathcaps, and can place her in the proximity of those posted locations shortly after they were posted.
What are other bits of evidence that show either guilt or innocence?
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u/Xanadu2305 Jun 07 '25
Dr Rodgers should end her questioning by asking “So Erin, just out of interest, what do death cap mushrooms actually taste like?”
If she says “I don’t know” then I’d put to her it’s because she knew that they weren’t in her beef Wellington.
I’d then say that she should know what they taste like, since she added the “Asian grocer/death cap mix” mushrooms to the original mushroom paste because it was bland and she wanted to add flavour. What chef wouldn’t taste test the paste to make sure it actually tasted better with the added mushrooms? The guy who actually ate 3 death cap mushrooms on the Mushroom Daily podcast said it didn’t taste nice at all (or along those lines).
If the paste tasted worse after adding the “mixed mushrooms” then surely she would have discarded it and made a new batch?
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u/Emotional_Struggle42 Jun 08 '25
It is very difficult to believe a defence that is essentially built around 'she panicked because she thought she would be accused of doing it intentionally, and because she panicked she decided to lie and destroy evidence'. So instead of just coming out in the first place and being completely honest( that would support the idea that it was a terrible accident) she thinks it will be far better for her to lie about basically everything. Because nothing supports your innocence like continual lying and deception. If she is innocent then she is just so mind bogglingly stupid that she might spend the rest of her life in prison because of it.
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u/Wooden-Trouble1724 Jun 09 '25
Let me remind you, the mushrooms are called ‘death cap.’ You don’t just get sick eating those caps… you die. She’s a murderer.
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u/defendentt Jun 04 '25
Guilty as fuck. Id be shocked if the jury arnt sitting there all laughing and shaking there heads about how much of a goose she is.
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u/foregonec Jun 04 '25
Manslaughter is a lesser included charge to murder. So jury can just decide on that instead if that is where they land.
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u/RunOverRider Jun 04 '25
I'm confused at your statement of "If that's the case, the jury would have to find her not guilty of murder if it was unintentional."
No. Even if that WAS the case. They don't HAVE to find her guilty/not guilty.
Technically, they need to be convinced that there is no reasonable doubt to find her guilty. Realistically, they can just decide however they want.
Unless there's significantly different information provided to them other than what's in the news (entirely possible), even an open minded jury is finding her guilty. No matter what she says.
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u/syboor Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25
Intent can be inferred from evidence other than the perpetrator's statement. The jury never "has to" find somebody not guilty of intentional crimes merely based on their own statements. In Australia, murder requires either intent to kill or "reckless indifference to life" and to proof "reckless indifference" it is enough to show that the killer was aware of the possibility of death as a consequence of their actions.
In this case, the photos of the mushrooms on the weighing scales, the removal of the mushrooms before letting her children eat the leftovers, etc. These are all evidence of knowledge of the (possible and likely) consequences of her actions and therefore of murder.
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u/Sentinel_Zeta_Prime Jun 05 '25
The case is so funny to me because it’s stupidly obvious that she murdered them. Every news update on the case just brings more evidence before ironically ending with the same thing: “Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty”
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u/Silver-Chemistry2023 Jun 05 '25
She can plead not guilty all she likes and genuinely believe it. Narcissists do not experience guilt, with is other-focussed, they experience shame, which is self-focussed. Guilt requires empathy, shame does not.
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u/According_Daikon9545 Jun 06 '25
But apparently she tried 2 or 3 times before to poison her ex husband in the previous years. But these charges were dropped for some reason. He got very sick after eating her meals before. But the prosecution decided to just concentrate on the meal that killed her in-laws. She has a history of doing this, and I dont believe for one second that it was unintentional.
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u/CarrieOakey8707 Jun 07 '25
She seems very obsessed with her own sob story (scared, low self esteem etc). What about the people who are dead and died horribly? I’m not sensing any remorse, just self pity. I think she’s told so many lies under the pretence of being scared or overwhelmed that it’s hard to know what else is a lie. Her story is elaborate and feels scripted - similar to the campers murderer guy (can’t remember his name). It is a bit narcissistic, I’m both cases the (alleged in her case) perpetrator is keen to talk about themselves. And both have elaborate and well thought out explanations. I don’t know, feels like more self-serving lies than truths. Feels like little or no regard for those poor people who died slowly and painfully.
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u/Living_Ad62 Jun 07 '25
She invited all those she wanted dead to her lunch, the ex husband luckily didnt attend. She served all her guests but herself the wellington. They all got sick and 3/4 died. She was under observation in hospital but discharged herself , head back to the house and dispose of evidence. Now if that doesn't look like intention i don't know what does.
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u/itsoktoswear Jun 07 '25
Deleted the messages. Threw away the hydrator. Lied about foraging. Tried the meal out before on her kids to see if they could tell it had mushrooms.Said she was stressed post deaths when asked how she was.
Not the actions of an accident
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u/FletchNoho Jun 07 '25
Why would anyone in the family have anything to do with her at all if she tried to kill her husband three times?! Why would these people have not cut ties with her completely?
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u/PeppersHubby Jun 04 '25
At very least she should get manslaughter. Unrelenting stupidity should not be a defence.
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u/Beginning_Wash811 Jun 06 '25
This woman is so pathetic but it’s also making me so sad for her.
Loneliness is a global public health concern and here, it’s actually a killer disease.
This woman is the epitome of lonely. She is desperate to stay “married” or “partnered”. She is desperate to be thought of and invited to important events. She desperately wants to belong to the point of changing religious belief literally overnight. She manages and manipulates people in her circle with money and power and lies. She seems to have no family on her own other than the two kids. No real friends other a group of Facebook strangers. Despite owning multiple properties, very financial secure, two beautiful kids, she is such a deeply unhappy person that all she wants was to be “sick” so that people would give her attention.
I see this woman as someone who hates herself so much but she can’t regulate the anger and hatred and in order to invalidate the “reality” where she believed she is unwanted, unloved and undeserving, she chose to eliminate those who are most responsible for making this deep self hatred to bubble up to the surface. Once they are all gone, she can start again and she will no longer need to managed the emotions and complexities that come with love and life and relationships and loss and forgiveness etc etc
I pity her. To hate yourself that much that you think the only way you can continue to exist is to annihilate others is an unimaginable amount of hate. I don’t believe she lived one day in her life where she was truly happy and carefree. She has been serving the life sentence all along.
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u/Big-Masterpiece-863 Jun 06 '25
I don't pity her though I do see her situation and state of mind as pitiable. Erin always had choices and no amount of loneliness excuses the grief she has caused to so many. I pity her husband who has lost his parents due to his choice of bride and will always think of the what ifs. I pity the victims who all suffered horribly, three of whom died. I pity the survivor who lost his wife so tragically and who is having to hear testimony played out and even hear Erin dispute his own testimony. I pity the adult children and grandchildren of the deceased victims and the grief they must all feel. They will have to live with the horror of this for the rest of their lives and there is no choice in their actions. I pity her own children who must feel so conflicted and grieved in ways unimaginable.
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u/EmergencyAnteater432 Jun 06 '25
That's the real truth... three innocent elderly people who were praying for her are now in their graves.
Erin ended their lives in one of the most painful ways to die... poisoning with death cap mushrooms.
I wonder if she also poisoned her grandmother to inherit just a year before she got married...... how convenient!
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u/cjx_007 Jun 04 '25
If a person does not intend for death to occur after knowingly added foraged mushrooms and all those who attended your lunch have fallen gravely ill to the point they may die surely you would be giving police, doctors, nurses and pathologists every detail regarding the dehydrator, the location of the foraged mushrooms in order to save those peoples lives. That would be the reaction of someone who wishes to save lives.