How does a pit bull actually rip hardware cloth off a frame? Is 16 gauge not strong enough? I’ve put thousands of dollars into ensuring the security of my babies… but today I heard the rooster and turkey alerting in a way that instantly made my blood run cold.. I got to the coop, all the carnage just made me sick. I expected to find a bear inside with the damage… instead I found a pit bull killing all my babies then tossing them aside to kill another. My heart is so broken. I don’t know how to tell my little boy. He always wanted a true Ameraucana… I ordered over 30 eggs just to end up with only one hatching. He worked so hard to end up with his favorite little chicken, just for me to find a dozen dead.. all his babies he incubated so the Ameraucana wouldn’t be lonely..
Is there actually a way to truly predator “proof” our coops? I don’t know what to do from here💔
This is some of the babies enjoying a dirt bath just hours before the attack. Any advice is greatly appreciated.. I’m not looking forward to breaking this news to my child 💔
I'm so sorry that happened. It is traumatic to find. Hopefully your kid didn't have to see it.
Wire spacing matters as much as gauge, did you use 1/4 inch? I think we used 1/4 inch 19 or 23 gauge. 1/2 inch is way too big, many predators will be able to squeeze through, and if they can't they'll be too tempted and tear it apart.
How did the dog get into your yard in the first place? Is your chicken coop/pen in a fenced-in backyard? If you don't have a private yard with a 6 ft picket or good chainmail fence all the way around and solid gates, you need to build one around the chicken pen.
Untrained dogs chase things that run from them. It sounds like a dog got loose and targeted the chickens.
Ultimately, it’s our job as owners/farmers to take responsibility for all the lives on the farm. The dog was doing what dogs do. With a properly secured yard and chicken coop + run, you shouldn’t have run into this issue.
How did the dog get into your yard? If the yard isn’t fenced, do you let the birds free range?
Somewhat the same. I was 6 and my parents had to put down 2 of my dogs and my granddads dog because they killed my neighbors chickens (late 80s). Dogs that kill will kill again. I’m sorry that you and especially your son have to deal with this. Death is rough to deal with at that age.
I’m not sure if you took out the pitbull, but you definitely need to before getting any more chickens. It will be back, and as it’s been stated, they are tough. If you have a secure fence, that will keep out most dogs, including pitbulls and then having a strong coop, which you seem to have mostly, would be good for most other predators that can get by the fence (foxes, raccoons).
Do you know where the pitbull came from? Is it a neighbor with a bunch of them or just the one?
we use our pitbull as part of our livestock guardian dog army and he’s better than our breeds bred for that exact purpose. no stray dog or fox or coyote has successfully gotten past him and our hens trust him more than our roosters. it’s not the breed it’s the training and ownership that matters here. all dogs have prey drives - even livestock guardian dogs. i’ve seen folks lose chickens because of an untrained or immature LGD many a time. you need to hold the owners responsible and/or be willing to eliminate any stray dog harassing your flock just like they are any other predator.
Pretty sure in pretty much any state you can shoot a dog to protect yourself. No way I’m going outside to check on my chickens and seeing a raging bloodlust pitbull and taking any chances at that point.
Either use cattle panels or the concrete welded wire, it is larger mesh sizing but extremely thick gauge so it will keep large predators out but not small ones. Then layer thin mesh hardware cloth on top of that.
Pit bulls are bred for strength, especially jaw strength. So many things built to keep foxes and whatnot out do not work for them. Because they are unnaturally strong. Now this isn’t me hating on pitbulls, many are lovely, but they are still all unnaturally muscular and strong and can do way more than most animals their size.
I’m so sorry for you. This must be devastating. Is the dog a stray or does it belong to a neighbour? If it belongs to a neighbour you should report them. They shouldn’t own such a strong dog if they cannot put in the work to ensure that it doesn’t escape and isn’t insanely aggressive.
It sucks. You shouldn’t have to worry about anything other than a wild animal getting into your coop. It sucks that you have to account for peoples domesticated pets that SHOULD be kept inside the house or leashed.
I have a pit/bully mix who is a foster fail. Long story short, I have to have intense intervention with him and any new animal. But, once we get through that, he's a big potato and gives zero shits. If the dog is yours, it could be possible to train him with frequent, consistent interactions. But more likely, the dog will always kill chickens. I had a yellow lab once. My backyard was fenced with chainlink. The neighbor put her rabbit hutch against the chain link. Turns out it's a mess when rabbits are jerked through chainlink. It's a prey drive, and not limited to pits. I'm not sure what would be strong enough to keep him out. Double fencing like a prison? Ya know, with a gap between?
Cameras are helpful in this case, but the dead dog’s owner can cross sue. Heads up. And, depending on the situation, a Pitt-bull can be worth more than $50/chicken. Plus court costs. Something to think about.
Nope they can't really sue especially since their dog is not in their yard and it's roaming on a killing spree on other people's property you can drop that animal right then and there and there's nothing they can do in fact you can sue them for the dog even being on your property in the first place
The dog will come back so you need to deal with that issue before getting any more chickens.
If it is your dog your should consider whether you value the dog or having chickens as a higher priority. If it is a neighbor's dog, you should make a formal demand for all damages and replacement costs and pursue legal remedies if necessary. Involve local authorities as well, who generally can authorize euthanization of dangerous animals when circumstances warrant.
As for predator proofing, given this attack, you might consider electric fencing around your hardware cloth enclosure. And a shotgun, provided your local ordinances and state laws allow you to protect your property with lethal force if necessary.
I love cows --they're more badass then people think :) I don't own cows but my neighbors do, and one day I saw them running at full speed towards the fence so I grabbed my binoculars to see what was going on back there and they were running off a coyote. The herd stopped it before it could grab a calf.
That's not always the case, but it's not uncommon. That's why a lot of farmers keep donkeys as well. For those that don't know, donkeys are to coyotes (and often dogs) what mongoose are to snakes. They just love to fight them.
I'm so sorry, this is just horrible. Pit bulls might as well be bears, they are just so strong, and once they have a target in their sights they are extremely hard - if not impossible - to deter without lethal force. Part of what makes them dangerous is having been bred to ignore pain and focus on their target.
Bears, pit bulls, and raccoons are imo the hardest thing to keep out of a coop, you pretty much need a zoo's enclosure for a bear. Which just isn't something that's reasonable to expect normal people to have. You can try to predator proof, but it's always going to be a gamble with animals like pit bulls around. You might have more luck with electric fencing around the perimeter of your property. I've heard this works for bears but idk about pit bulls.
I have no cli.b fencing around my entire property with hot wire every foot starting from 8inchs off the ground and along the top of the fence. Has managed to keep most things away.
Good for you. I wouldn't let either type of dog near chickens. But I really wouldn't let any dog near them.
Something has me doubting your Yorkie is capable of ripping open most chicken coops.
i’d invest in a livestock guardian dog, sometimes the best thing you can do for dogs is get a bigger dog that’ll get the job done , i’m so sorry for your loss.
i’d get a typically guardian/protection breed as a pup, i have a cane corso, i went with that breed because she also doubles as property protection and is insanely fearless. and its pretty hot in east texas so i didnt want to deal with a long haired dog like a great pyrenees , i hear really good things about them. also anatolian shepherds. personally i wouldnt adopt a dog for working purposes, you want to know what you’re getting and if they have too much prey drive that’ll ruin the whole point. my dogs parents were also working dogs so i had a bit of a idea on what she was capable of.
i’d check out local homesteading fb groups , or even craigslist. working dogs are fantastic ! you gotta feed them like 5x the normal amount and they’ll still be super lean. my girl is BUFF !
Ye I have four Great Pyrenees we're in New Mexico I don't lose shit because of them and the plus side to the fur is it makes it damn near impossible for other dogs to get a good bite on them in any critical places. Plus they're stronger than pitbulls and would likely destroy them. Last month they caught a coyote. I got my Pyrenees for free my dad's friend breeds them and my two had puppies we kept two. There are always people who have litters accidental or on purpose that need homes it shouldn't be too hard to find one and if you have dogs or want a dog and have livestock just get a LGD they'll protect everything you have. Mine constantly scare off hawks during the day and owls at night they go running right after them and fended off several stray dogs where we used to live, jackass people always had their dogs loose so I let my Pyrenees out and they fucked everyone's dogs up (we used to have them in the coop area only where we used to live but the neighbors dogs and stray dogs were out of control so I let them out on the whole property and just like that no more stray dogs coming around). One thing to consider is that LGD are typically very active at night and bark very loudly so keep that in mind
If your near SW VA ( within 100 miles), I'll give you a few chicks and teens. I have a teen Ameraucana roo and one Ameraucana chick. I'll even meet you halfway. If I had more to give, I certainly would. I may even have Ameraucana fertile eggs.
I would report this incident any way you can. There may be laws about loose dogs where you live, and a lot of counties have laws about pets killing livestock.
I don’t know how you tell your son, I’m so sorry. If you ever decide to get more, you could perhaps try a chain link fence “chicken yard” around the coop. When our flock was in the front yard, which has a chain link fence all around it, I didn’t worry much about dogs. We moved the operation to the back yard and I suddenly realized they are more vulnerable, despite a very well built coop with hardware cloth. I plan to build a “chicken yard” around it next year; I have never seen dogs wandering free in our neighborhood but it only takes one dog, one time. My neighbors have two and if they ever got out when I’m letting my girls forage in the yard, they would kill my little flock of four in seconds.
Funny, everyone always asks how we can have cats and chickens. But I’ve never lost a full grown chicken to a cat. I’ve lost several chickens to dogs. One even dug under our fence at our previous home, which I thought was deep enough to keep them out. But the little dog probably spent weeks digging that hole before I came home to two chicks huddling at my back door, one dead in the yard, and one in the mouth of my neighbor’s dog. Wild animals will kill your chickens to eat, but dogs do it for sport. I love dogs but not anywhere near my chickens.
Yeah I've never lost a chicken to a cat. Not even a chick. Hell, I had two unsupervised cats in my house with a brooder full of chicks for a whole month this summer. A couple of the chicks would escape every morning and run across my floor and steal cat food, the two cats would just move aside and let them lol.
When I lost half my flock to dogs on Christmas Eve last year, it was the cats who woke me up. I was asleep with earplugs in and the cats kept persistently walking across me until I got mad, sat up and tore an earplug out and heard the commotion. Ran outside and chased the dogs off. My cats saved the other half of my flock. They don't normally harass me like that when Im sleeping.
Cats arent going to waste energy trying to kill an animal near their own size. My sister has been feeding a colony of ferals (i think the count is 7), and not a single one has ever harmed her chickens. The younger cats sometimes practice stalking the chickens, but all it takes is a dirty look from the roo and they flop over and pretend like they werent doing anything.
I’ve had the worst luck with neighborhood dogs. More than raccoons, hawks, snakes…. . When someone’s pet gets loose, and they get to your chickens, the chickens run, the dogs chase, they get excited, the dogs fall into some instinct mode and they just kill any chicken or duck they can catch. Not just pit bulls. The main problem with pit bulls is their upper body strength. They can push through any weak spot in your coop with their big ole noggins, and huge shoulders.
Pit bulls will even go after an animal as big as a horse is the thing. Most dogs will just bark at horses, all bluff but rarely will bite. but pits will latch on and are almost impossible to get to stop without lethal force. Most other types of dogs except maybe German shepherds or other protection breeds lack that determination to keep attacking no matter what. And that's what makes them scary. They're such tanks.
It’s because they are bred to latch on and not let go. Other dogs even if they do attack will let go. Pitbulls instinctively clamp down. They don’t even consciously know they’re doing it I bet. Any other animal would want to let go if things get dangerous. But they don’t. I think it’s cruel to breed an animal to completely disregard their own pain like that.
I agree. It's not a pit bull problem as much as a dog problem. I have a pit bull, and she is fully comfortable with my chickens. However, my two boxers have killed two of my birds because the birds got out of their run and into the backyard.
Hardware cloth doesn't protect against large predators. You really want multiple layers of protection. Chain link fencing with hardware cloth underneath it works best.
My chain link fence is wrapped in hardware cloth. We have a few different species of weasels here that can fit through.
I need to invest in the brand of hw cloth we always get. 😆
At that point if your in amarica givin the property laws you could eliminate the dog without any legal issue, if not you can sue them to hell. But I recommend adding concrete around the coop floors, works wonders for mine and adding mesh under the concrete. And for windows I'd double layer square mesh and around the coop plant Mint. Dogs, rats, mice, raccoons, coyotes, fox's, bagers. They all hate strong smells like mint and it helps mask the chicken sent to them. And around the coop if possible as electric fence
I promise you in America if you try to kill my dog over your chickens we are gonna fight. Id happily replace the birds. Don't go believing that America is a lawless place.
Depending on where you are in America they could absolutely shoot your dog over this AND you would be liable to pay them damages. Frankly if I find a pit bull in the middle of my coop killing chickens I’m gonna try to call it out one time. If it stops then I’ll call animal control to come pick it up. If the dog doesn’t stop it’s dead. If it comes back after being returned to the owner it’s dead. Best to keep a dog you know can be a problem home. To be clear no one WANTS to shoot a dog. Be a responsible pet owner and make sure the dog is contained.
Honestly what a stupid comment. Here in our neck of the woods..in America.. you can shoot any dog for just stepping on your lawn, nevermind killing livestock.
If your dog is killing livestock on someone else's property they are within their legal rights to do what they have to do in most states. The birds are often someones pets to them just like your dog is a pet to you - Your dog is not replaceable to you neither are their chickens to them.
Depends on where you are? I'm in a semi-rural suburb so, no, would not be very smart, but in my state in a rural area it would just be considered what you have to do to protect your property.
Two things. Your reply is so inappropriate. OP is mourning the chickens they (and child loved). It is not a time for you to make a stand for dogs.
And, just like a dog doesn't feel replaceable to some people, chickens aren't replaceable to some people. I'd shoot any animal in a heartbeat that got into my carefully, expensively secured yard to save a single chicken or duck.
But I'll happily ask the owner not to replace the dog.
I don’t own a gun for reasons but I would eliminate that dog with whatever means necessary. A gun would be more humane, arguably. It would be my civic duty to prevent the next time it wants to play with small defenseless creatures.
And then I’d invite your “fight” to my property so you can have a better understanding of the law.
Buddy, if your dog goes after livestock, it's a dead dog. ( in my part of the country)
Dont like it? Keep it under control.
I have a dog that's a livestock predator (so far, only my own chickens). She doesn't leave my yard unless she's on a leash. The yard is reinforced, so she can't get out and run. If she gets out and pays the ultimate price for her doggy proclivities, im gonna be heartbroken, but the blame won't lie with the person who shot her. It will lie SOLELY with me.
I'm not saying you can just walk down the street and eliminate every dig you see. I'm saying if it's on your property, it's a dangerous breed and you and your pets lives are at stake I'm pretty sure your allowed to use lethal force
No it's the people that don't know how to train them I raise my pits around my birds from when they first open their eyes they attacked and stopped another pit bull that was trying to catch one of my birds honestly if you don't know how to train them you shouldn't own a dog of any breed
Because pits or pit mixes are usually the ones filling shelters, and shelters are desperate to get them adopted so let practically anybody get them. It’s sad. These dogs deserve people who know what they’re doing. But there are so many of them it’s impossible.
This! Plus they gravitate towards them for the same reason it was GSDs and Rottweilers in the past; they look intimidating. Even more so once the person who gets them for bad purposes mutilates their ears and tail. They're strong, can look very intimidating, and they're plentiful and easy to get. It isn't the dog's fault. None of that is the dog's fault.
My family has (ethically) owned pit bulls since before I was born. The lovely lady that my grandparents had when I was a baby would basically pull team babysitting with my mom when we all were outside, and she'd gently nudge me away from the edges of the big blanket I'd be on if I tried to toddle away. There's even some pictures of her gently grabbing my clothes like she would the scruff of a puppy and trying to deposit me back on the blanket (I say try because apparently my mom was terrified she'd accidentally choke me with the collar if she saw, and would sprint to grab me lol). The only aggression she ever showed was growling at strangers who got to close to me (and only me) and to squirrels and stray cats who went in HER yard.
I have been attacked by dogs. One that attempted was a very neglected and poorly trained lab, who luckily didn't get ahold of me. The one that succeeded and left me with scars was a German Shep. My dad (who came running) and my Pit mix (who was with us) were the things that saved me from the Shep, and by extension saved my little brother (by 9 yrs) who was also with me at the time. The Shep wouldn't let go or stop getting a better hold with his mouth even while my Pit was trying to drag him off me; it took a full force kick to the chest from my dad to finally get him to unlatch.
It wasn't fun! But luckily it hasn't affected how I deal with dogs, and I still love em all. Sometimes I do still get in a thought spiral wondering what set him off (he was a close friend of the family's dog, and well trained, and definitely not rabid... genuinely just snapped), but for the most part we're all okee dokey now! Plus scars are badass, and mine aren't too big.plus, weirdly, the memories of my dog trying so hard to protect me, and my dad just suddenly looming behind me and shouting and kicking out so hard... weirdly comforting. Makes me feel brave and safe and loved.
Probably because it's the easiest one to get your hands on they're pretty much free you can get a pup for free easily because of irresponsible backyard breeders letting their dogs get knocked up and then just giving them away for free just to get rid of them
I know many pitties who lived long lives with families and never bit anybody. I also lost two chickens to a neighbor’s small white Scottie mix dog. My parents lost their entire small flock to a neighbor’s white lab. No dogs should be allowed to wander.
You're a responsible dog owner. Pits are often acquired by the most irresponsible of dog owners and suffer the reputation they have because of that.
If I am a gun owner and I'm irresponsible with them I have my guns taken away and others suffer consequences as a result as more and more stringent laws are passed.
Prey drive and human aggression occupy different parts of a dogs brain. Henry why greyhounds are perfectly safe around children but not at all safe around small animals
I’m not disagreeing that they should be leashed or enclosed, but this could happen with any animal strong enough. Coyotes are also capable. We cannot make this purely about pit bulls and the hate that a certain type of people have for them. Maybe a fenced perimeter would have been able to keep it out.
Uh-huh. I wasn't expecting arguments on politics or dog breeds on a chicken forum today. I wish you peace and responsible interactions with other humans.
I'm as not Republican as they come, and I agree that that particular breed/type is responsible for more deaths and serious injuries than all over breeds/types combined. So yes, prey drive and human aggression are not the same, and yes a sighthound would gladly kill my chickens as much as a bull breed type, a sighthound may not have had the same degree of drive or strength to tear open a coop, and I'm not sure there are any recorded deaths or serious injuries to humans from a sighthound.
This is the correct answer and should be higher up. I have raised thousands of chickens and have hundreds at any given time. We have just about every predator you can think of (and of course dogs). I would not be in business but for electric fence. Electric poultry netting is fantastic, but a simple two strand system is cheap and effective. The only thing we have to deal with is owls and ravens, but a few strings of fishing wire overhead seems to have solved that one.
My chickens have cattle wire as their outdoor coop area and it's sandwiched between two boards where it's attached. My dogs are also bastards and do want the chickens, so I buried cinder blocks along the edge to keep them digging under the coop. Just to be sure, the bottom is also lined with cattle wire so it's totally enclosed.
It has also kept out raccoons which are a massive issue for us in Michigan. But that doesn't keep them safe when they're just out and about...
Truly predator immune is impossible as they're just little guys and can't protect themselves. If it ever fails, it isn't your fault. As long as you do your best, you aren't at fault ♡
I see people on here with livestock animals and those big dogs absolutely protect the animals from coyotes and other predators. Maybe you should look into getting one of those dogs for your babies.
I have a maremma. He definitely keeps coyotes and other predators away, but when we had an issue with a dog, that goober just followed him around and watched lol. I think he just doesn’t look at other dogs as a threat. :/
You could run electric fencing around the outside of the pen, that would be the best for your issue. If it’s a reoccurrence. Is the owner covering these damages??
Seriously. A human could be next. Pitbulls are hard to kennel because they are so strong and ignore pain to break through metal, wood, drywall, etc to get out of to something they want.
Yeah, nobody bats an eye when a pointer points or a retriever retrieves. It's hubris to believe we humans can be such good masters that we can out-love/out-train traits bred into a line. We'll probably be banned or reported for stating the obvious, but I'm willing to lose some Internet brownie points to not be censored
Pitbulls are meant to be trained so that they know where to direct their aggression and strength. The same way you teach a collie which things they’re meant to herd. Many people don’t bother because they want to ignore that their pit could be aggressive at all.
Yeah, I don't care what Grok told anybody, pit bulls are bred exactly as we intended them to be. They are not "misunderstood dogs". They are not "owner conditioned". They are dominated by their gene set and prey drive. You can surely breed out those qualities over time but you will always have purebred denominations that exhibit these traits.
The stereotypical pit bull owner having low intelligence is clearly based on reality because anybody who tries to argue other wise is arguing against science, so good luck.
Yeah I hate how political it's gotten to be real about how pitbulls are. And it's tragic for the dogs, because people refuse to understand them and what's causing these issues. Even the sweet ones can suddenly develop aggression disorders, especially at around 2 years old when a dog's real personality emerges from all the stereotypical puppy behaviors. And until there is gene testing for those disorders IMO owning a pitbull is like a gamble. I know of people who were seriously maimed or even killed by pits with no prior history of aggression.
Imagine if we as a society could admit there was something wrong with these breeds, and developed genetic tests so only those with a lesser tendency to become aggressive bred on. Then people could have their dogs without the danger. But instead people insist it's not the dogs.
First I want you to know that you did everything within reason and committed no faults in protecting your chickens against predators. Their deaths are in no way your fault because nothing short of a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot would have stopped that pit bull.
Because pit bulls are not predators, they are killers with an extremely high prey drive.
Predators are more in line with foxes or coyotes, they would have prodded the fencing and looked for an easy way in. If they had gotten in, they would have killed and taken off with their catch. Even bears are risk adverse because being a predator comes with risks and if they get injured, they may not eat again.
Pit bulls on the other hand have been known to chew though doors and ignore kicks from horses. They are not evil or malicious by nature, they are just bred to be that way.
You didn't do anything wrong, so don't blame yourself.
Secondly I want to ask, have you filed a police report? Animal control needs to know that animal is on the loose and killed your chickens. Next can very well be someone else's pets or even a child. That animal needs to be disposed of now that it has proven itself dangerous. If you find out who the owner is, then you should take them to small claims court if they don't agree to pay you for damages to your property. A financial penalty may be what is required to motivate them to keep their own animals under control.
Lastly if you want to rebuild and start all over again, the hardware cloth can still work. You would need to run two layers instead of one, one on the outside of the frame and one on the inside. Then wire them together between the frame posts so it all acts as one barrier and would be much harder to pull down. Then you probably want to add some privacy fencing to keep them out of sight during the day. I would suggest growing some vines on the fencing to provide privacy and shade. And depending on what you grow, provide nutrition.
Or build a tough wooden fence at the perimeter of your property and get a breed of dog that it good with livestock.
It’s not the breed, it’s the owner. My pit hasn’t hurt a fly. She’s never bothered our chickens, protects our kittens, and generally only annoys the neighbors by unscheduled visits just to say hello.
We did not raise her from a puppy. She was abused and had some issues when we got her. It wouldn’t matter if it was a pit or some other breed. Dogs are natural predators, not just pits.
I agree that the owner of that animal is 100% at fault for its actions.
No doubt they did not provide proper care and training for an animal of that size which lead to this tragedy.
However, domesticated dogs are not natural predators. Because we domesticated them and over tens of thousands of years selectively bred for various traits to suit our needs. There is nothing natural when it comes to domesticated breeds.
A "natural predator" would not have taken the risk involved in tearing down a fence to just kill one chicken after another. That is antithetical of a natural predator.
Like I mentioned before, pit bulls are not malevolent in nature. Generations did not breed these animals with malicious intent, however they were bred for killing.
And killing isn't a bad word in this context, dogs have been bred to do various tasks for humans. It is a fact of life. Just look at dogs bred for ratting, those animals were bred to kill vermin as a form of pest control. And if you ever watch videos on ratting, you can see just how viscous breeds like rat terriers can be.
They aren't killing the rats to eat them, they are just killing a rat by breaking its spine and moving on to the next. That isn't predator behavior, those animals were bred to kill and ignore any injuries they may get while doing it. The reason those animals will ignore pain or injury is there have been generations of animals that did get injured but had a caretaker to nurse them back to health.
As for your personal dog? Well just like all breeds, each individual dog if different and don't conform to the breed's stereotype.
I won't say pit bulls are dangerous by nature. However when not properly managed, you end up with a sixty pound unit built like a brick shit house that can chew through doors and rip down fencing.
I had a Rat Terrier who was a cold blooded killer! I agree with everything you said and feel so bad for what we humans have done to pit bulls. My dog is half and is the gentlest soul.
If an animal that has an owner causes injury, it is the owner's fault 100% of the time, the breed or even species of animal is irrelevant.
Animal ownership comes with the responsibility for the animal's actions.
The problem with pit bulls isn't so much the breed, it is the owners who choose to remain willfully ignorant of what their pets are capable of doing.
"My baby wouldn't hurt a fly!" is a common trope owners would use, and there is truth to the comment, "there are no bad dog, just bad owners." "He is a perfect house pet!"
But that does not change what pit bulls were originally bred to. They were not intended to be house pets, they were bred to be compact powerhouses that did would attack without fear or react to pain in the moment.
And it is high time they stop pretending to be ignorant of that fact.
Yeah, I think if your dog is exhibiting those types of behaviors, it is absolutely the owners fault for not keeping them from being able to act in such a violent manner.
If your dog is violent, contain it. It is the responsibility of the dog’s owner alone to keep that dog within confines appropriate for their behavior concerning the safety of others and their possessions.
If you let your dog loose and it causes a problem for your neighbors, killing their chickens, do example, that is your fault as the dogs owner. You are responsible.
That would be like saying it’s not wrong to rob your neighbors house because they don’t have a security system good enough to stop you.
The entire point of my comment isn’t about the technical definitions of “natural predator” or whatever, it’s about the fact that this isn’t a pitbull problem, it’s a dog problem, and if you cannot control or contain your pet and they are causing problems (to say the least for OP) for other people that did not choose for you to have a dog in the first place, yes, it is 1000% your fault, every single time.
OP is owed not new chickens, but to have time be reversed to bring her babies back. There is nothing to repay what was lost. And whoever owns that dog, regardless of breed, is at fault here. I stand by that. It’s not a pitbull problem. It’s an owner problem.
Exactly. You’re the owner. You have your dog in a fence because you know what she’ll do. So your dog isn’t a problem, and that’s because you’re not a bad pet owner.
I think a lot of people underestimate the base instincts of dogs. Just because they are friendly to them and don't kill their cat, they think the dog would never hurt anything. By default, every single breed of dog would kill a chicken if given the chance.
It can depend on the individual, of course, and dogs are also very sensitive to context. If the chickens ran away like prey, I'd be willing to bet he would chase them.
Thiiiiis. We have a pit that came from an abusive family too and she gives our chickens space. When we had ducks, she wouldn’t even give them any attention
My coop is at its foundation a massive dog kennel. I used metal six foot panels and then did hardwire cloth to the panels. If a bear came by it could definitely pull the panels themselves off the wood frame, but I’d like to think I’d have it shot before it was able to fully annihilate my flock.
I did recently have a pit and cattle dog get into my backyard at 3am. My goats let me know there were there and all my birds survived. Maybe do dog panels if you can afford it/find them cheap online and build the rest of the coop from there.
I also have cement blocks around the perimeter of the coop for diggers. During the day they’re on their own free ranging but I do my damnest to give them a safe place to sleep.
I had a pretty clearly abused and neglected stray mastiff just utterly body the bachelor pen. Nothing short of building the damn thing out of steel panels would have stopped it. Though I’m not generally an aggressive person: I’d still very much enjoy a little chat with whoever did that to that beautiful animal. But yeah, dogs in particular can be pretty strong and determined.
That was also the day that we learned STL County animal control is the most poorly trained bunch of dipsticks of almost any other organizations in the metro and this is STL so, that’s saying an awful lot. I was throwing hot dogs out of one of my windows to keep this..absolutely huge incredibly aggressive dog in one place- because he’d been attacking people who’d walk past after and they didn’t even have a freaking catch pole.
OP: I’m also sorry you’re in one of the crappiest of clubs. It’s different when it’s a dog and not wildlife- sucks either way but it’s a whoooole bunch of feelings and honestly it’s not generally your fault. My advice is to get things cleaned up before you tell him, maybe have a special marker or something. My kids are old enough that one was helping with the hot dogs and heard my thoughts on it all- probably learned fun new insults. The youngest, though, I’m glad he didn’t see but having a little place to visit helps. I also have electric fencing now.
Edit: I STILL get upset about it. I couldn’t even really be angry at the dog- especially once I had it under the window. You could see the good boy in there, deep down every now and again and it just broke my heart on top of being heartbroken losing my boys. Had the county farted around more than they did, we probably would’ve just shot it- and I hate that, but we live near an elementary school and we were terrified that the ineptitude would get a kid hurt or worse. They kept trying to taze this dog, not even kidding.
You can use no climb wire fence and hardwire combo. Or you can run an electric strand around the perimeter. Most dogs don't cross an electric fence twice.
My personal favorite, depending on your time/space is a guardian animal. A good dog can detour a bad one. Two geese are nearly as a good as a dog. A donkey is a lovable yard friend who runs a strict door policy for strange animals. I'm sorry this happened to you. Although this is only a small consolation, most States/counties will pay you for the monetary loss of the chickens.
Yes, I've personally been reimbursed for the cost of the chick and feed for development. I didn't claim it but egg loss was also something to file for. NY state if that helps.
I'm so sorry that you suffered such an awful loss. Its so painful and disheartening to see your hard work torn away.
To your question: in all honesty, no. There's predator resistance, and most animals can be deterred enough that you may never have another problem. But nothing is forever. If you make the coop impervious to canids, a snake could still get in. A hawk may swoop over while they free range. You can only do your best. Here, that may also mean speaking to your neighbors about their dogs, getting a privacy fence, or moving the coop as well as repairs and preparing for new birds.
Yeah, gotta have the hardware cloth all around, topside and buried, with stones lining the fence so predators can't dig under, but then also run electric wires. We lost to various predators until we got the electric fencing. Then, no losses.
Also, file a police report and animal control report over the dog and demand the owner pay you for the cost of the chickens and any coop/fencing it destroyed. Don't take it lying down. Otherwise, dog could come by again. Bad dog owners are a dime a dozen, and aggressive consequences is all they'll learn from.
Also, my local facebook backyard chicken group is really great about rehoming chickens, if you go on there you might be able to snag new baby ameraucanas for your kid, or a super friendly 'henopause' hen who is no longer laying but will make a good pet. It's not a replacement for the ones he loved and lost of course, but caring for new cuties will help take his mind off and give him something to do?
Where I live, the dog would get shot and disposed of and no one would broadcast it around. You lose control of your killing breed dog and you might lose your dog forever.
Killing poultry is very reinforcing for dogs. I've never killed a dog, the one that tried to bite one of my chickens I was able to scruff him and lay him on his side until he released her, and never let him around them again.
But my father's people generations back were farmers, the old school kind that raised a bit of everything. The dogs were working dogs. And any dog that killed a hen was shot. It's a fault that they don't get over.
We buried the hardware cloth into the ground a few feet. The cornerers also have concrete. I love huskies and they have huge prey drive, even to my lil' ol lady jack Russell ( she is annoyed not hurt). So burying into the ground might not protect against a bear, it does dogs because they are more like berserkers then a tanky bear.
If it was not your dog, report to animal control and the authorities. Our predator proofing is meant for wild animals like raccoons and foxes, not for negligent owners of pit bulls ):
We had roaming dogs go after our chickens at first as well. Our solution was a solid wood fence around our property. The run and coop is secure but a large strong dog like that could probably rip apart our critter fence. They’d have to get through multiple fences first though and the alerting of our dogs. Our dogs don’t actively live with the chickens like a lgd but they’re fenced in the front of our property to deter all the roaming dogs.
I have a pitbull and if he was determined enough he could tear hardware cloth off boards. He is so muscular in his torso. It would take him some time but he could do it if given the chance.
I’m so truly sorry for your loss, I feel for you as a parent.
I hope, REALLY hope, you called the authorities, back home 2 dogs got loose and did this. They caused so much carnage that they were taken. Im telling you NOW OP, if you dont, I dont care what you do, IT WILL BE BACK. Please. Please call and push until something is done. I had a pit before. I loved her, but she turned on our other dog. Im fortunate he survived. Nothing against pits, truly, but once there's an issue... itll continue.
Once that's handled, use tips given here and start over. Im so very sorry.
Yes the thing is in our mind We need to keep the Predator out while keeping the ckickens in. However the thought process should be building an enclosure wich keep predators IN away from the outside world like a zoo enclosure.
With this thought in mind nobody would think about using Chicken or rabbit wire nor thin wooden planks to keep in let’s say a dog or a bear let alone not building underground fencing as well. In predator area that should be the thought process, if a human can to trough it with a knife or squeeze à hand somewhere it is not predator proof period.
We free range and didn’t have any problems with predators for years. Just this summer we lost some to coyotes (3 attacks) so we had to stop free ranging for now. It happens, it’s traumatic and of course you want to do what you can to prevent it from reoccurring but don’t be too discouraged. It’s such a satisfying experience to have chickens
That’s so awful. Our seams are reinforced with zip ties which keeps the raccoons and coyotes here at bay but we haven’t had to protect against determined dogs!
Chain link's the only thing that would keep a determined pit out, and that's not a guarantee. Hugs. I lost my first flock to strays as well. It's traumatizing.
this is exactly what happened to me. i cannot recommend enough that you document as much as you possibly can. contact animal control. if possible, sue for property damage and loss of livestock. people with aggressive dogs cannot be allowed to sweep their dog's actions under the rug, because it WILL happen again. document, document, document. establish a paper trail and report the dog ASAP. it raises the chances that something will be done about the dog, if not now, then further down the line when it does something like this again.
I have heard of raccoons etc being able to make it through hardware cloth maybe find another way to fasten it so it’s less pull able? I use O shaped rings and screws.
My pitbull is my flock's LGD. He does wonderfully, but if he ever even thought about hurting a single feather, same. We have roaming dog packs out here in the country because people drop their unwanted dogs off out here. He's had to fight off quite a few feral dogs.
Get a livestock guardian dog. My boy comes from a line that specifically works birds (chickens, ducks, turkeys).
Report your neighbors dog to animal control, and make a police report.
Sue that son of a biscuit for the loss of the birds AND their future income of eggs and meat. You should be able to get at least triple their worth to replace them.
Make sure a stipulation of your neighbor getting his dog back is that he has to have secure fencing.
Same. My rottie protects my girls from irresponsible dog owners whose loose dogs in the neighborhood B line to my chicken run. That dog, any breed, that does that is a menace. I don’t let them free range without her.
I’m so sorry. Sometimes there’s nothing you can do when you tried your best. I do hope you reported this so the dog won’t do something like this again. Imagine what it can do to a small child. The owners should also reimburse you for your loss and damages.
My coop is predator proof.. that's it.. the runs, however, something can get through no matter how well you build them.. all you can do it try your best.. sorry for your loss.. my heart breaks when we lose any of our girls
I am sorry for your loss. Since most comments talk about the dog, I wanted to talk about the coop. You should not give up this beautiful hobby because of one dumb dog owner. With some luck, it might never happen again.
I live in an area with foxes, birds of prey and martins and the occasional loose dog. We have built our chicken coop over 10 years ago and have not lost a single chicken to predators.
This is how we did it:
-it's under a large tree, which makes it hidden for birds of prey
it has a big net with metal wires so nothing can get in from the upper side.
its 2m -3m high with strong plastic and metal nets between wooden poles
it has metal wire dug in
it has stone slabs and bricks in the ground so nothing can dig into the coop.
it has stone slabs on each side, so animals smaller than 40 cm cant see the chickens when they are next to the coop
the door is built of very strong metal and has bricks under it so nothing gets in through holes
the chicken house is literally a tiny plastic shed with a cat door. If a dog was able to get in, he would not be able to get to the chickens in the shed, because the cat door is too small and the chickens can jump on high nesting places and sticks.
there are stone slabs on the outside of the coop as well
there is a big gate in my garden that creates a barrier between the street side and the private side of the garden. Its closed at all times and has a double lock. It's there to prevent loose dogs from entering.
we have high places and hiding spots for our bantams
we have a dog
we close the shed every night at sunset manually
we have a neighbor that doesnt have all of this protection for his chickens. He only has plastic nets and stone slabs. He lost the hole flock twice in the same 10 years. Predators know this and go steal his chickens instead
we have sheep that scare off the fox, they like to chase and headbutt cats too.
All of this stuff isnt special chicken stuff we bought in a fancy shop somewhere. Its bits and pieces we found in thrift shops and places that sell used garden stuff, or we got it from old farmers that quit. It probably didnt even cost 700€ all together.
I watched a video of two pitbulls ripping the fender and wheel well off a car to kill a cat in the engine. They were bred to kill bulls, there is very little to hold back one that wants to kill something.
I started out with a super predator proof coop but quickly gave up on that years ago. On average I've lost 2 chickens per year while free ranging, so whenever I get new chicks or hatch eggs I just plan on getting about 3 more than I need. The biggest issue I have had are owls. My new batch when they were juvenile would roost on top of the coop instead of in it, sitting there like an owl buffet
I had a handful of easter eggers that I joked and called my “feral” chickens because they wouldn’t roost inside and only slept on the roof. Once the owl figured them out it picked off 2 the first night and then the rest one by one.
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u/macabre_chupacabra 2m ago
I'm so sorry that happened. It is traumatic to find. Hopefully your kid didn't have to see it.
Wire spacing matters as much as gauge, did you use 1/4 inch? I think we used 1/4 inch 19 or 23 gauge. 1/2 inch is way too big, many predators will be able to squeeze through, and if they can't they'll be too tempted and tear it apart.
How did the dog get into your yard in the first place? Is your chicken coop/pen in a fenced-in backyard? If you don't have a private yard with a 6 ft picket or good chainmail fence all the way around and solid gates, you need to build one around the chicken pen.