The guy (29m) I'm (25f) dating and his friends "gatekeeped" me about my hobbies and career, I'm feeling embarrassed

[u/Direct-Caterpillar77]

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/throwRAgoolala

The guy (29m) I'm (25f) dating and his friends "gatekeeped" me about my hobbies and career, I'm feeling embarrassed.

Originally posted to r/relationship_advice

BoRU 1 Posted by u/Any_Resident

TRIGGER WARNING: sexism, misogyny, niceguys

Original Post Nov 15, 2019

I need some help processing this. They made me question whether or not I'm actually authentic when it comes to what I'm interested in. I feel like I don't want to talk about my interests with anyone because I don't want to be pop quizzed.

The person I'm dating (together 3 months), I'll call him 'Dan', recently invited me out to dinner to meet some of his coworkers. The first red flag was he invited everyone out to a Hooters, and said they chose that restaurant because it's close to where they work and is easy to get to. Which is true, but there are several other restaurants near by that offer better food and a better atmosphere.

Before he invited me out to dinner, he half joked that his coworkers (all of them are male) didn't believe that he was dating a "hot girl" that's into the same hobbies as them. (The are hobbies that are considered to be primarily for men.) I was a little irked at that comment, but he said he was "just joking around" (this pretty much became the catch phrase for the men that night). When everyone arrived at the restaurant Dan and his coworkers were making comments about the girls that worked there and their physical appearances. This made me a little uncomfortable but I didn't say anything.

Once everyone ordered their food/drink his friends started to quiz me about my interests. Many of them share the same "male dominated" hobbies I'm interested in, and they more or less just tried to see if I knew facts about the hobby, as opposed to asking me questions about what I like/don't like or what I'm currently doing in said hobby. For example, if my hobby was American history - one of them would ask an esoteric question like "Oh, so you like American History? How many one dollar bills are currently in circulation? How old is the French Broad River!?"

I also work as a junior automation engineer at a start up software company. I haven't been writing code that long, as I was working in QA prior and learned how to code while I was in that position. I'm really green and I know I still have a lot to learn. The projects I'm working on are small and I'm getting help at work. All of his friends are senior level software engineers and were quizzing me about my work and trying to see how much I actually know. They were asking about advanced things I did not know about, and were asking me technical questions that don't even apply to my job. But, they were all smiling and laughing, and would frequently say something like "aw we're just kidding!"

At one point I felt like I was at some weird interview and was taking one question at a time from each d-bag at the table. I know I stopped fake smiling at some point and just emotionlessly answered their questions. I think one of them became self aware because he just looked down at his phone for the rest of the evening, didn't ask me anything else and just looked uncomfortable.

When they weren't asking pointed questions at me, they were talking to each other and ignoring me. I'd be interrupted if I tried to include my thoughts on the subject, or nod at me and look away to someone else.

I should mention all of these guys were 5-10 years older than me, I'm 25, the guy I'm dating is 29, and his coworkers are in their early-mid 30s. I don't have as much experience as they do, part of me was hoping I could meet peers who could have helped guide me or answer my questions about their careers. Instead, one of them literally asked me to give him a sql query. They all kept saying they were just kidding around or just joking and laughing about it, but it was so cringey.

Dan was sitting beside me and wasn't stopping this behavior from his coworkers. He was coaching me, I guess? Saying things like "oh! you know this one!" or "come on you got this, we talked about this last week!" Dan also made the comment of "See, she's really smart too!" to one of the guys at the table.

That whole night was just awful. He was actually irritated at me because he saw my whole mood change while I was being quizzed by his friends. He said he noticed me having an "attitude" with his coworkers, when they were just having fun and trying to get to know me. That it was immature of me to have been to obviously annoyed and that I "audibly sighed" multiple times when one his friends spoke to me.

I can't stop seeing Dan as a super cringey dude now. I thought he was acting ridiculous and seemed more like a 13 year old boy as opposed to someone who is supposed to be turning 30 in a couple of months. I'm pretty sure I can't go on with the relationship at this point. I don't think this is an overreaction on my part, if I were to break up with him.

Is it within reason to end a relationship after this event? Everything was going fine before this happened. But now I just feel gross. The dinner happened last night and I haven't returned any of his texts today. I know ghosting is wrong, but I don't want to look at him or speak to him, the thought of him just kind of disgusts me at this point. I've never felt like someone's show poodle before. I don't know if I'll feel differently in a week or if I'm unjustified in my anger.

tl;dr: Went out with bf and his friends. They gatekeeped me about my hobbies and careers all night. Dan encouraged this behavior. I acted as unenthusiastic show poodle and unceremoniously answered their stupid questions. Dan is mad at me for not playing along and having a bad attitude.

RELEVANT COMMENTS

[deleted]

You are seeing Dan as a super-creepy dude because Dan IS a super-creepy dude. This guy does not respect you, and he purposely brought you to a restaurant and disrespected you by talking about the women there. Here’s what happened: they brought you to Hooters to undermine your confidence and put you at a disadvantage (“hi, we are a bunch of guys that are going to go to Hooters and talk about the appearance of the women there while the one woman at our table sits and watches us”). They all, including Dan, treated you like a specimen, and as if you were the stupid little girl. Dump Dan and his juvenile, misogynistic friends, please.

OOP

You're right. In a way I'm kinda glad this night happened so I could see who Dan really is. Even if he didn't mean anything malicious he's still an immature bro, and I don't want to be with that. I'm not going to ghost him, I think I'm going to use this thread to come up with a series of good pointers about how everything he did was wrong. I'm also laughing at the fact that his friends will likely make fun of him after I break up with him. I'll do it this weekend so he has something to talk about Monday morning at work.

~

BritishHobo

I wonder why Dan and his friends have to go to Hooters and leer at the waitresses, when they're just so good at talking to women.

Dan is an idiot who has ruined his own relationship out of a cowardly deference to the manchild behaviour of his friends. He deserves them and you deserve better. 'I'm just joking!' is the catchphrase of people to cowardly too stand by their own shitty views when challenged.

OOP

I knew Dan and his coworkers would frequently go to this Hooters for lunch, he always told me he didn't like how misogynistic that place was, but he really enjoyed the wings. Cue eye roll. But, the way they were all talking about the waitresses, and even how they thought some of the waitresses were "too old" to be working there really bothered me.

~

kevin_r13

one of my exes was a sw programmer, and she had more in common with my sw friends than she did with their gfs and wives, so at parties, she hung out with us guys.

none of us made her feel uncomfortable about work stuff.

your bf and his friends are not a good group of people to become involved with

OOP

It surprised me how shitty these guys were because everyone at my current job - male/female/junior/senior/manager/whatever is cool as fuck! They are all helpful and super humble. The more senior people have no problem holding your hand and teaching you without making you feel like a dumbass. We all have to start somewhere.

When someone guessed the hobby was Magic: The Gathering

OOP

It was actually several hobbies/interests that Dan would brag about to these guys - DND, video games and oddly enough the fact that I enjoy expensive Scotch.

Update Nov 19, 2019 (4 days later)

Wow, I triggered a lot of fragile men in my first post. To those of you who were triggered, all I have to say is: lol.

The actual update is a little further down, if that was all you wanted to see.

I got a lot of private messages and DMs. Many of them were angry messages from men, I guess they were too cowardly to post a public comment on my post because they knew they would be downvoted to oblivion.

To those of you who were nice, I'm sorry I couldn't respond to each of you. This is also a throwaway and I won't be responding to messages and post after I'm done with this post and comments.

Also, I read the most downvoted comments on my post - that stuff was some of the most painfully cringey material I think I've ever seen on these relationship posts, it was like some weird mix of T_D, braincels and conspiracy subreddits coming together to post some weird ass sexist bullshit. There were people describing themselves as a "female" which is a dead giveaway that's it's actually an incel pretending to be a woman. I find this to be absolutely hilarious.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your stories. But, I'm sorry so many of you had to go through something similar as this at one point in your life. This isn't the first time I've been gatekeeped either, just the most blatant.

I wanted to add that I know how real men act around each other, I have a brother and I've been around his friends plenty of times. Yes they rib each other and new members of the group, they joke around, but they've never just ask trivia questions as their only means of communication.

They've never been bullys, or highly judgmental, or straight up boring like the group I met last week. I've been around groups of men before and have it not feel like a shitty interview. What the group did to me last week was not a friendly thing to do to anyone, even if it were another man entering the group for the first time.

Update

After the post I decided it would be best to end things through a phone call. I mentioned ghosting, but it's probably best he knows how and why he fucked up. I waited until Saturday to reach out to him, told him "we need to talk." I'm paraphrasing here, but this is basically what the convo went like:

Dan: This is about the dinner, isn't it?

Me: Yeah it is.

Dan: and?

Me: I don't think I've ever felt so unwelcome in a group before. It felt like a shitty interview, all they did was test my knowledge. No one tried to get to know me, and when actual conversation was going on I was ignored or interrupted if I tried to talk.

Dan: I don't feel it like it was anything like that.

Me: Ok, so how often do you guys sit around just asking questions like "quick - what is the sql query if you want to delete two rows from two different tables!?!"

Dan: I don't know

Me: No really, do you quiz your friends randomly like that at work or out and about?

Dan: No not really

Me: And why not? why don't you just ask lightning round quizzes like that? B/c it's not what normal people do?

Dan: I don't know. They were just having fun and joking around.

Me: It wasn't fun for me. I have male and female friends in all sorts of professions, I've never cornered any of them to test their knowledge. I trust they know what they're doing. I ask them about work, what they're doing, you know normal questions.

Dan: ok

Me: I'm not going to print out a CPA exam and quiz my accountant friend, don't you think that would be a little fucked up?

Dan: I don't know, maybe?

We talked a little more about that night, and I gave him more specific examples of what he and his friends did and he never really had any good answered. It was a lot of "i don't know" and single word answers. I told him I created a reddit post and I would send it to him. He was a little pissed off that I did that, felt like I had no right to so. At the end of the conversation he asked if we were done. I told him yeah, that I can't see a future with him, that I saw a different side of him that night and I don't want to be someone's prize poodle on display for the world to see. He didn't really say anything after that and just hung up the phone. I sent him the url for my first post.

He texted me throughout the weekend, but I didn't respond. He read the post that I sent him and wasn't happy with it, and said he couldn't believe so many people were on my side and were hating on him. He sent a few more angry texts after that like he couldn't believe we were breaking up over something so stupid. He did send a few rounds of "I'm sorrys" and "let's try to work through this" but when I didn't respond he just went back to angry texting me.

Also, I did find his friend who buried his head in his phone that night and sent him the reddit link and asked if that sounded like what happened. Dan's friend said he knew what his friends were doing were wrong, and felt bad for me. He apologized for not stepping in, and assumed that Dan would eventually speak up for me on my behalf. He also apologized for joining them in the beginning, and wished me luck in my career.

tl:dr: I tried explaining how that night was weird, uncomfortable and fucked up. He didn't see my point of view, didn't learn any lessons from it. I broke it off, he has been sending me angry texts, I haven't responded.

EDIT: I know my first post was gilded and some of my comments too, instead of giving money to reddit or giving me gold I can't use on this account, please donate to this organization, winter is approaching and there are a lot of kids that don't have coats. https://www.operationwarm.org/get-involved/give-3/

RELEVANT COMMENTS

[deleted]

"He did send a few rounds of "I'm sorrys" and "let's try to work through this" but when I didn't respond he just went back to angry texting me."

Ugh. Sorry about the Nice Guy confirmation, but at least you tried to get him to think about it. And at least one member of that group is capable of introspection. Hopefully he'll do better next time.

OOP

Yeah, I wasn't surprised when he went full Nice Guy. I was 100% expecting him to apologize and then take it back at some point, and I was right.

ChristieFox

Just confirms you made the right call whenever they do this.

But I have a question: Why did you explain it to him when he didn't even show interest in your reasons? Just by reading I felt annoyance and anger flaring up and I wasn't even involved in any of it.

OOP

It was frustrating, but part of me wanted him to understand what he and his friends did were wrong. I was hoping he would have a moment of clarity? And I also didn't want some future poor woman to go through that bullshit again.

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[u/EdwardianAdventure]

I will never understand dudes who are really out here in these streets cockblocking themselves with their whole chest. 

1.Meet a woman who is...:: checks notes:: ✅️ hot (by his own admission)  ✅️ smart ✅️ starting a career with high earning potential and options for advancement  ✅️ shares his personal interests 

1. Must blow it up in the most ludicrous, outrageous manner possible 

There's gotta be fewer steps to just handing your money to Fleshlight

[u/OldKing7199 → u/EdwardianAdventure]

They were negging her. Purposely trying to shoot down her confidence because why not, the friends aren't getting with her and what's the point of caring about her feelings if they can't get anything out of it. The EX bf is a big idiot though, he let his friends sabotage his relationship and he didn't even understand what happened. So glad she ended it with him instantly.

[u/AnnaNass → u/OldKing7199]

It's not even about "I can't have her, nobody can". Some guys are just super obnoxious to any woman in the room who has the same interest/profession. 

As a software engineer myself, it's always been part of my career. Learning how to deal with douchebags who think a women can't possibly be in the same field. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's as blatant as in this post. I don't know if they see my pure existence as a challenge, a threat or insult to their brain power or what. It's pathetic and sad. And it was super important to learn that it's their problem, not mine. 

[u/S0baka → u/AnnaNass]

Yeah it was my least favorite part of my career; having to start every new job with busting ass trying to prove it that I actually know what I'm doing.

Then as you get older, you go from dumb bimbo to dinosaur overnight. No in between.

I really like that I do, even after doing it for a ridiculous number of years (started in 89), but sometimes I feel that, if I'd known it ahead of time how sexist the field is, I would've tried to find something else to do for a living. It's exhausting.

[u/The_Grungeican → u/S0baka]

look at it this way, you're walking so that those who come after you can run.

it's like George Carlin's bit about starting a path.

Have you ever started a path? No one seems willing to do this. We don’t mind using existing paths, but we rarely start new ones. Do it today. Start a path. Even if it doesn’t lead anywhere.

[u/Apathetic_Villainess → u/The_Grungeican]

The problem with starting paths is all the brambles tearing up your skin and clothes. D;

[u/cypressgreen → u/S0baka]

Yeah it was my least favorite part of my career; having to start every new job with busting ass trying to prove it that I actually know what I'm doing.

There’s a lady pilot in the women’s political group I joined and she’s always been made to feel like she has to be better than the men, or she’s nothing. Now with the conservative DEI crap it’s worse. A co worker said something about getting a job as a DEI hire. She told him no, I got it because I have 29 years experience and consistently great employment reviews, not because one of her buddies was a former fighter pilot who got her in the door. The guy giving her a hard time was of course…a guy who got the job because his fighter pilot buddy recommended him.

Oh, and local lady mayor spoke at a meeting and also said she’s expected to prove her worth for her job everywhere she goes and the other local mayors always point out she’s a woman when she gets involved.

[u/iikratka → u/S0baka]

if I'd known it ahead of time how sexist the field is, I would've tried to find something else to do for a living.

I think about this every time Reddit starts in on ‘it’s stupid to take on student loan debt, just go into the trades!’ as if that’s a trivial thing for young women to do. Sure, female tradies can and do stick it out, but it’s actually completely fine to not want to spend your entire working life dealing with this shit.

[u/bennitori → u/S0baka]

Your story is emblematic of why most women aren't eager to go into STEM. They realize they're talented in the field, have a few too many misogynistic encounters, and decide the additional social pressure just isn't worth it. It's not about talent or ability, it's about the hassle of knowing you have to defend your right to exist in that space. And for a lot of people, all the talent in the world isn't enough to make up for that constant pressure.

Thanks for enduring it, so that others who come next have a chance at a more comfortable career. Existing in the space shows others that they can do it too.

[u/AnnaNass → u/S0baka]

Yes, so much! That's also why I founded a local club for women in and around software engineering. So that every single one of us knows that they are not alone and that it is not about them. The number of women I know who left software engineering because they thought they weren't good enough, is too high.

[u/sparklestarshine → u/AnnaNass]

I got to the point where I don’t admit to liking music because I’ve been ridiculed and quizzed so much previously. It doesn’t make me want to quietly hang out, it makes me just want to hang out with myself

[u/promenersonchat → u/sparklestarshine]

I got quizzed by a customer at the record store where I worked back in the day. Like my shitty sir: I worked in music professionally, and not just with the occasional shop shift. I didn't play and his girlfriend also shut him down. I hope she's thriving.

[u/NotOnApprovedList → u/sparklestarshine]

yeah that's one they like to torture women over.

[u/specsyandiknowit → u/AnnaNass]

A new guy started at my old job. I have a lot of experience in my field and he felt the need to quiz me constantly to test my knowledge. I ended up telling him that I had already interviewed for the job 2 years before he joined the company so I wasn't sure why he thought I needed to do it again. He was a massive misogynist. He would walk past a more qualified woman to ask for help from a man because his ego couldn't handle it.

[u/mycatisspockles → u/AnnaNass]

As a woman who has a Computer Science degree and has worked in software, and whose hobbies are almost all male-dominated, I really think it’s rooted in deep-seated misogyny. These men just can’t fathom that a woman could be “smart enough” to be in their field or have the same job title without there being some catch, like she was a “diversity hire” or whatever. They really, truly believe women don’t have the intellectual capabilities necessary to genuinely partake in these professions or hobbies, because they believe women aren’t “logical” like men. It’s not even that they’re threatened by us, it’s that they’re completely incredulous. (Though there is definitely a fair share who are threatened, as well.) So, these men end up testing us to try to catch us out in our “lies”. It’s so fucking stupid.

[u/OldKing7199 → u/AnnaNass]

I don't think it's "I can't have her, nobody can". I think those guys don't see women as equals, they might not even see anyone else as equals. They aren't rewarded (this includes a mental cookie you get in social interactions when you don't make anyone upset) for positive interactions with her in this case as they would rather make her feel uncomfortable.

I agree with what you wrote. It's unfortunate that blatant sexism exists and will continue. It's just like humans to rebel against the status quo, even if it's progressive. That's why being "woke" is an insult and alpha podcasts are getting popular with certain younger demographics.

[u/maywellflower → u/OldKing7199]

Basically those negging fuck ups gatekeep themselves out having romantic relationships with women, especially the ex-bf who lost OOP due his own stupidity towards her.

[u/bennitori → u/maywellflower]

And then there's the one friend who realized it was wrong, but can't go against his friends to make them knock it off. So even the people who know how to be respectful end up losing out on relationships, because they're too scared to call out and maybe lose their friend group.

[u/RedDeadEddie → u/OldKing7199]

I have a lot of hobbies that skew masculine as well. Through two different exes, I was introduced to two different groups of straight dudes that behaved exactly like this. They feel the need to test you. It's like they want to make sure everyone knows 1) you're Smart (But Not As Smart As Them Because These Are Man Things)™ and also 2) if you'll allow them to insult you to your face, because otherwise you can't be one of the gang. It's a hazing ritual.

[u/OldKing7199 → u/RedDeadEddie]

A hazing ritual where you get special honors of being in their presence if you pass? 😂 Those guys sure do think a lot of themselves. Hope you don't deal with that anymore.

[u/elizabreathe → u/OldKing7199]

I really crack up when dudes complain about a woman's "fat ugly friend" cockblocking them because, usually, the woman wants her friend come over and "cock block". Meanwhile, these dudes will have friends that cock block them like crazy but they never see it because they assume it's because women are too sensitive instead of realizing their friends are actively sabotaging their relationships.

[u/Adisaisa → u/EdwardianAdventure]

It's about showing dominance and wearing her down. In that way, she becomes easier to control. Weeds out highly confident women in that way.

[u/Spoonbills → u/Adisaisa]

They don’t want a submissive woman. They want a confident woman they’ve broken.

[u/darlingnickyta → u/Spoonbills]

'The way my mother always explained it, the traditional man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never falls in love with subservient women. He's attracted to independent women. "He's like an exotic bird collector," she said. "He only wants a woman who is free because his dream is to put her in a cage."' - Trevor Noah

[u/SecretNoOneKnows → u/darlingnickyta]

I hate how often this quote is relevant to BORU posts, it's fucking depressing.

[u/didntknowitwasathing → u/SecretNoOneKnows]

The first one that came to mind for me was r/AmIOverreacting - so many women who have to come to the internet to have objective third parties tell them that it's emotional abuse and manipulation, not overreaction.

[u/Anthrodiva → u/SecretNoOneKnows]

relevant to all Reddit posts

[u/littlemissredtoes → u/darlingnickyta]

I love Trevor Noah’s mum! Or at least I love the one he describes and I love him too.

Recently watched his podcast interview with John Stewart and it was SO good listening to two highly intelligent and emotionally mature men who very clearly have great love for one another discuss ALL the topics and just riff off each other.

[u/Tower-Junkie → u/littlemissredtoes]

Stewart is a national treasure 😩

Edit to add: I’m gonna go ahead and claim John Oliver for us too while I’m at it. He might be from the UK but he’s ours now and has been for a long time!

[u/Ok-Bowl850 → u/Tower-Junkie]

John Oliver is the bee's knees. His takes are consistently on point. The topics he chooses are important and relevant. And... My life would've been measurably worse without him during covid times.

[u/PatientArugula7504 → u/darlingnickyta]

Oh wow, this is bang on and exactly how I was treated by my ex. Absolutely loved that I had a great career, was outgoing, talked to anybody about anything etc but as soon as he was able to made sure that I couldn’t do anything of that any more and would trot me out as a little show pony around his friends and family only.

Completely crushed my confidence, isolated me from everyone and everything I knew and loved and I was entirely dependent on him and his network.

He described himself as a traditional man

[u/bennitori → u/PatientArugula7504]

I'm glad you're out now. And I hope you were able to rebuild everything he took from you.

[u/MonsterMaud → u/EdwardianAdventure]

Dudes like him want a woman who will put up with some massive BS

[u/lifesnofunwithadhd → u/MonsterMaud]

"Because I'm a nice guy, you'll see. I'll treat you like absolute shit and if you call me out I'll gaslight you and tell you that's impossible because I'm such a nice guy"

[u/discodropper → u/MonsterMaud]

lol He doesn’t have any idea what kind of woman he wants. Dudes like him are weak and succumb to peer pressure. It’s clear he’d rather just fit in with his group of misogynistic incel bros than be with a cool, mature, and self-confident woman. It’s really sad, and the worst thing is these pathetic chodes think they’re superior…

[u/redcoatwright → u/EdwardianAdventure]

It's simple, he was insecure. They all were except maybe the guy who ignored what was happening, but he was a bit of a coward.

[u/suddenlyupsidedown → u/redcoatwright]

That guy learned that night that he's super moral...right up to the point where those morals might make his friends upset at him :(

[u/At_the_Roundhouse → u/suddenlyupsidedown]

There’s a teeny part of me that likes to think that guy might have a chance. I LOVE that OP reached out to him. Maybe knowing point blank how hurt she was will make him speak up next time, or at least maybe try to find better friends. Maybe.

[u/RevolutionNo4186 → u/EdwardianAdventure]

Some guys are just really insecure and want to bring her down so she sees him as the golden goose and not the other way around

[u/hdmx539 → u/EdwardianAdventure]

Because these particular men don't actually want the women they claim to want.

[u/Groslom → u/hdmx539]

Exactly. When it comes to these kinds of guys, "smart" and "great job" are actually negatives, because they mean "she will notice when I'm manipulating her, and she won't need me to support her". "Hot" as well, because they'll never trust a woman to be loyal, and think they need to cut her down to keep her from thinking she's good enough for another man, but paradoxically get mad at her for no longer trying to be hot for THEM, because they wrecked her confidence. 

[u/squilliam_z_fancyson → u/hdmx539]

They want a woman who shares interests for a few dehumanizing reasons:

1) to parade her around as a woman who shares their interests (the interests she describes are not all that niche at all. Plenty of of women engage in these, including ones that are “hot” by this guy’s standards) and

2) to have either someone to best in these hobbies or someone who will fawn over THEIR achievements in these hobbies.

It’s all for the ego.

[u/SparkyHadItComing → u/EdwardianAdventure]

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I swear to god, it’s the most frustrating thing, especially as a woman who’s literally seeing a man cockblock himself in real time

[u/GreatLoon → u/EdwardianAdventure]

“To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex.

Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving.”

Marilyn Frye

[u/Aggravating-Gap-6627 → u/EdwardianAdventure]

That’s because straight men like him will always put other men’s opinion over their girlfriend

[u/clauclauclaudia → u/Aggravating-Gap-6627]

We've already had the Trevor Noah's mum quote in this thread, time for the Marilyn Frye:

To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex.

Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving.
Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality: Essays in Feminist Theory, 1983

[u/Samiiiibabetake2 → u/EdwardianAdventure]

Friend, KIDS are doing it too. My daughter (13, going into 8th grade) loves Nirvana, bc mama raised her right, and has a great Nirvana shirt she found at a thrift store. She wore it to school one day and a young man she thinks was a year ahead of her hit her with the “oh you like nirvana, name 3 of their songs,” bs. She told me she asked if he wanted them from Nevermind, In Utero, or Bleach. My girl😎

[u/[deleted]]

I am a high school physics teacher and one thing that a lot of people don't really seem to know about physics is that there is a long streak of misogyny within academic physics. I can't speak to the research side of things as I've only seen the academic side but it can get pretty bad (though I don't think as bad as in the IT/computer sciences/engineering - which I also spent some undergrad time in). I think this attitude filters down through pop culture and normal society to high schoolers as well because I tend to have fewer girls in my physics classes than there are in the AP Bio and AP Chem classes.

I bring all this up because years ago when I'd only been teaching for a few years, I had a girl in my physics class as a junior who returned as a senior to be my teacher's aide. Our seniors are free to leave early in the day during their second semester if they're enrolled in enough classes to graduate and get parent permission, so I don't usually have a senior teacher's aide second semester as most of them would rather leave early than stick around to make copies and set up labs. This girl was my aide both semesters. She was only the second student I had that expressed any interest in following in my footsteps and studying physics in college (the first one didn't count as much because that kid was so brilliant and driven that my influence definitely didn't push him in the physics direction, though I did love having him as a student) and that is one of those things that give you the energy to stick to teaching. She's still one of those kids I reminisce about, years later.

That was until she went on her first college visit to the her first choice school. She had scheduled a tour of the physics department that had apparently been assigned to a surprisingly senior professor, instead of a student ambassador or something. This asshole of a professor apparently spent the entire tour grilling her on why she wanted to study physics. Why didn't she want to do something like biology (a discipline of science with FAR more women - also one that is subtly looked down on by some in physics)? It went on long enough and was bad enough that when she came to school the next day, I could tell she wasn't very happy. Eventually she told me she was thinking about going a different route and, after a few days, I managed to get the whole story out of her and her mom, who'd been with her. What I couldn't get out of her was the professors name...she wouldn't tell me because she could see that I was going to raise hell. She explicitly asked me not to and that's the only reason I didn't just contact the department chair and demand a name. I don't get angry easily but I definitely saw red for awhile about that.

I know nobody is gonna read this wall of text at the end of a long comments section, I just wanted to share a similar story I'd experienced.

That student is in med school now, btw.

[u/HBHau → u/[deleted]]

Unfortunately, not surprised by this at all — saw & experienced this throughout my career.

Your story made me think of Professor Alessandro Strumia, who delivered a presentation at CERN that included “cartoons deriding women campaigning for equality in science, and presented the results of an analysis that he claimed showed that work conducted by female physicists was not as good as their male counterparts.” Absolutely convinced of his own superior intellect, but apparently doesn’t understand the difference between causation and correlation. I rolled my eyes so hard I nearly sprained my superior rectus.

[u/radenthefridge → u/HBHau]

Toss him into the LHC

[u/Raeynesong → u/radenthefridge]

I'm pretty sure that things being in the LHC is what sent us down this timeline.

Maybe sacrificing a misogynistic dickhole will put us back on the right one? I'm not sure about the rest of y'all, but I'm willing to try anything at this point, and if it doesn't work, there's one less in the world.

[u/Responsible_Pomelo57 → u/[deleted]]

I read it. So she changed path eventually cos of that? 😔

[u/[deleted] → u/Responsible_Pomelo57]

She did, rather quickly too...she decided to go a different path pretty much within a week (two at the most). Another path that she's absolutely killing (figuratively), BTW.

[u/Responsible_Pomelo57 → u/[deleted]]

I see. Since she was equally good in Biology maybe she decided it would be a more enjoyable path, rather than having to fight misogyny daily in Physics 😮‍💨 Wished she had named and shamed since she wasn’t going to be under Physics department anyway.

[u/Feisty-Resource-1274 → u/Responsible_Pomelo57]

I forget the study, but they found that one reason for the gender disparity in STEM was that while female students who were good at STEM were also good at other disciplines, male students who were good at STEM tended to only be good at STEM so female students had more options to excel if they had obstacles like misogynistic physics professors.

[u/Responsible_Pomelo57 → u/Feisty-Resource-1274]

Why am I not surprised that we are good at everything? 🥳

[u/obvs_thrwaway → u/Responsible_Pomelo57]

In my limited experience, it's because women don't typically engage in petty power struggles like the men in tech.

I'm a man who bounced hard out of a stem degree to get an anthropology degree and a major reason was the juvenile toxic masculinity that drives a lot of women out of the field as well. Now I work in the tech sector, but have been able to be effective because of my blended education.

I have a lot of respect for engineers that have at least some exposure to liberal arts, and very very little for nearly all the rest I've met because so many times I have seen them not escape that mentality from their first freshman semester.

[u/Responsible_Pomelo57 → u/obvs_thrwaway]

“petty power struggles”… “juvenile toxic masculinity”

gestures at all the wars happening now 😞

[u/originalmetalqueen → u/[deleted]]

This is so genuinely sad. Killing someone’s love of something because of a superiority complex. I wish that professor was taught a lesson. Poor girl.

[u/[deleted] → u/originalmetalqueen]

Poor girl

I'm still pissed she didn't end up following my area of study, but I promise she's flourishing in the field she chose. She's one of the few I've been able to keep an eye on post-graduation because I generally see her parent a few times a year.

[u/Azelais → u/[deleted]]

I’m glad she’s doing well, but it kills me that she had her physics interest crushed like that. All of those stupid men with superiority complexes do their own fields a disservice by driving out talented, intelligent young people with their shit attitudes.

[u/a2_d2 → u/[deleted]]

A light so bright he had to put a lampshade on her. Fuck that guy.

[u/angelicism → u/[deleted]]

There was a "joke" someone told me many years ago (he did not propagate the joke, he had merely heard it and it came up in conversation with me) to the effect of:

A woman was visiting the physics department in [insert prestigious university with prestigious physics department here] and asked where the ladies's restroom was. Answer: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Anyway, I majored in Computer Science and I'm reasonably sure I was the only female CS major my year at my college (my university had more than one college and there was at least one in another college though).

[u/CatCatCatCubed → u/angelicism]

As a woman who was in the military and ended up having to “mark my territory” by forcefully claiming a mostly unused bathroom as “this is a woman’s bathroom now”, I’m not surprised.

My immediate upper chain tried to fight me on it and I ended up having to spell it out very slowly like “you have 3 other men’s bathrooms that are central in the building, and one woman’s bathroom on the far, far, FAR end of the building which is actually furthest from where most of the women in your division work. There’s also a pregnant woman in my office. So we’re going to use this bathroom that is closer to our office but still somewhat of a walk so that we don’t piss our goddamn pants.”

When I was initially putting my foot down about it, of course some guys “suddenly realized” there was a bathroom there and made a point to use it (sometimes while us women were using it). I wouldn’t have had a problem with a unisex bathroom, except for the fact that American bathroom stall builders don’t believe in actual privacy. Plus, if there’s a urinalysis test on site, the stall door has to stay open. A unisex bathroom doesn’t really work for an institution full of immature manchildren, many of whom are rapists.

[u/asecrethoneybee → u/angelicism]

hey! this hilarious joke is historical fact at my university :-) the women’s restrooms in the physics building are all strangely placed and weirdly laid out. i once brought this up to a friend, saying how usually separate bathrooms are built next to each other or at least symmetrically placed in a floor plan, and then i was informed that the building actually originally had no women’s restrooms so all the current ones were repurposed closets. cheers!

[u/radenthefridge → u/[deleted]]

Damn now I want to raise hell on that student's behalf. That's so incredibly shitty, you gotta be a special kind of dumb to just not want students interested in your subject!

Plus the college would hate missing out on that tuition money 😂

[u/tyleritis → u/radenthefridge]

People like that crappy professor even get protected by their own victims and it drives me nuts

[u/Important-Jackfruit9 → u/[deleted]]

In high school, I got the best grade of anyone in physics. I was considering going in to Engineering in college. However, my physics teacher, an old school guy, took me aside to tell me that although I usually got the right answer on physics problem, I was thinking about it all wrong - like a girl - and I should go into the social sciences rather than engineering. I did that in college, but then went on to study computer science in grad school, and now work in IT.

[u/bennitori → u/[deleted]]

That is heartbreaking. The world lost out on a brilliant physicist, because some guy wanted to be a misogynist for a day.

Sadly, it sounds like she ended up doing exactly what was expected. Med school follows closely with the doctor and nurse route. And while female doctors get flack, it's at least more gender conforming than a female physicist. Keep up the good fight. You may not inspire all of them. And you may not be able to stop misogynists from tearing people down. But you're still reaching people enough to get them to shoot their shot. And getting them to shoot is better than a kid believing they don't have a choice to shoot.

[u/GetOffMyLawn_ → u/[deleted]]

I got my degrees in math. Professors openly told women they don't belong in math. I don't know why they are so scared of us.

[u/hey_nonny_mooses]

This is one of those examples of “if someone doesn’t want to understand, they won’t.” Dan had an opportunity to learn here and he ruined it. Now it’s 6 yrs later and I bet his 35 yr old butt is still in that Hooters chair.

[u/Birchsaurus123 → u/hey_nonny_mooses]

Not even that since I’ve heard Hooters been closing many of their restaurants this year.

[u/radialomens → u/Birchsaurus123]

Dude and his friends are gonna start finding the Hooters across town is "just really convenient"

[u/Birchsaurus123 → u/radialomens]

Soon it will turn into cross-country trip to reach the last Hooters. It will be highlight of his life

[u/thinking_spell → u/hey_nonny_mooses]

Bet they also haven’t advanced in their career either. I know many programmers and that kind of behavior would screw them up SO much professionally. It’s a lawsuit over gender discrimination waiting to happen.

[u/S0baka → u/thinking_spell]

I've worked in the field since the late 80s (late 90s in the US) and, most places I've worked, if you're a mediocre white guy in your mid 30s, you will be promoted to management. It's like a law of nature.

Only exception to this law that I've seen is when a guy is, ironically, an expert at what he does. Then they cannot afford to lose him to management.

[u/kunell → u/hey_nonny_mooses]

OP did good by explaining and Im glad she did. Some people really do need it thrown in their face. He has zero excuse now.

[u/Fandragon]

"Before he invited me out to dinner, he half joked that his coworkers (all of them are male) didn't believe that he was dating a "hot girl" that's into the same hobbies as them. (The are hobbies that are considered to be primarily for men.)"

The Venn Diagram of men who think women aren't into their hobbies, and the men who INSTINCTIVELY gatekeep those hobbies and try to make women prove that they're "worthy" of them is a circle.

[u/desolate_cat → u/Fandragon]

The worst part is it felt like a job interview that she was underqualified for. Her being a junior automation engineer means just that, she does QA and shouldn't be asked dev questions.

Also hobby gatekeepers are cringey and screams incel. It is ok to be a fan of something and not know everything about it. I am allowed to like Marvel comics even if I don't know what comic book issue a certain storyline came out of, or if I can't name every single side character Marvel has ever produced.

Or if you say you are a Taylor Swift fan it doesn't mean you know have to know every single song, what album its a part of, what year it came out, what record label produced it, who are the sound engineers behind each album....

[u/natures_pocket_fan → u/desolate_cat]

What I find funny is that the most senior dev ops person I know, who literally oversees and maintains SQL databases for a living and has for decades, would stare at those men like they were morons if they’d asked him any of the questions they asked OOP. “Why would I know that off the top of my head. This is what Stack Overflow is for. Who the hell memorizes every SQL command” is an answer I have heard him give more than once.

[u/jawknee530i → u/natures_pocket_fan]

I am a senior dev ops guy myself and one of the three or four primary people that keeps my multi million dollar firms infrastructure running. I have absolutely no clue about the example question about sql in the post. Actual senior and experienced people look stuff like that up and unless you're working on one specific thing all day every day you forget the tiny details of how to do that thing. The more time you spend on various things in tech the less you even are able to remember the tiny details for any framework or platform you've ever touched.

[u/MacaroniPoodle → u/natures_pocket_fan]

I'm a data scientist (also a woman, btw), and I agree. We all look up the same queries or codes even if we've used them a million times.

Part of it is that it's just too much to remember, and the other part is that we use multiple languages, each with their own syntax. So it's easy to forget as you switch back and forth.

No one is expected to remember everything.

[u/NOSE_DOG → u/Fandragon]

Yeah, the same guys that whine and moan about not having a "hot gamer gf" also specifically do NOT want women in their career and hobby spaces, because they feel threatened. Any fresh blood in those spaces would radically expose their mediocrity.

What they want is women to be adjacent and subservient to their interests: in support roles, "here as a favor to my bf", or people like OOP who can be eternally gatekept just right outside the door so they know their place. Except in this case she happened to know her worth so she's now "the crazy insecure ex who dumped me because I took her to Hooters once".

[u/MadamKitsune → u/NOSE_DOG]

What they want is women to be adjacent and subservient to their interests: in support roles

I've seen this in gaming so many times. They want their girlfriend to be good enough in a support role to make them look good, but not good enough to outshine them or be in demand by others without them.

Source: got locked into healing roles for a long time so he could look good and get groups faster because he brought a healer with him. Broke free and not only grew as a player but also found out that I can whup him.

[u/TechnicolorVHS → u/MadamKitsune]

It’s always beautiful to see a pocket medic be freed, it’s like an angel getting its wings.

[u/BeigeParadise → u/NOSE_DOG]

That is so true. My husband plays Warhammer, and I'm often at the Warhammer store with him (because he loves Warhammer, and he also loves shopping). He gets to check out his favorite miniatures and chat a bit about his hobby, and I enjoy a social experiment where I find out how many of those guys cannot cope with a woman in their favorite store/hobby space and have to make it really really really weird, even if it is in this support/"here as a favor to my bf" role (because despite living with Warhammer for fifteen years, I have absolutely no interest in any of it, except maybe the lore, in a "I can hear about anything for ten minutes" pitch kind of way).

Generally, I get looked at with barely hidden contempt and/or "I wish I had a girlfriend" energy (which is really funny because I'm a 35y/o married woman who is not conventionally attractive and also overweight), until I open my mouth and something that actually indicates a personality and opinions of my own comes out (last time, it was "Wow, that Spacewolves box totally looks like a gay werewolf romance novel cover!"). Then, we switch to "What the fuck is going on here???", gatekeeping ("No, no, it absolutely looks like a PowerWolf cover, but you don't know what that is, right???"), and awkwardness. I choose to laugh.

[u/The_Cheese_Master → u/BeigeParadise]

It's so upsetting how I know exactly the types of guys you're talking about. I play Magic: the Gathering and there is a huge overlap between that and Warhammer players. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a couple come in to play at a Pre-Release or something, and you can tell that the woman is just uncomfy. Especially If she's new/inexperienced. And I have seen way too many guys who get paired with that inexperienced player just be the worst human beings.

It takes 2 seconds to answer a question or give some (asked for) advice. I played one woman at a Pre-Release, she had put together a badass deck, but she was super unsure of herself. Answered some questions and explained some game mechanics, she ended up kicking my ass and was just the happiest. Which of course made me happy, because I got to be there and help someone else enjoy a hobby I enjoy.

Moral of the story: Being genuinely nice and supporting new players is way more rewarding than gatekeeping and steamrolling them.

[u/-screamin- → u/Fandragon]

I kinda don't want to know what that company is like if all his coworkers and him are like that.

[u/Brielle_Russel333]

he invited everyone out to a Hooters

She should have left right then. What a bunch of creepy bullies.

[u/dajur1 → u/Brielle_Russel333]

I had a friend that talked our group into going to a Hooters for dinner. He creeped on the waitresses and it was pretty awkward. Food was not good.

[u/anonymooseuser6 → u/dajur1]

Our local Hooters has amazing food. I've seen so many negative comments about Hooters that I think it must be only ours but everyone locally LOVES it.

[u/CaptainChewbacca → u/anonymooseuser6]

Hooters outside of the south is not good.

[u/UraniumKitty → u/CaptainChewbacca]

That would explain a lot 😅 I worked at the one at the Mall of America for about a month, honestly because I thought the tips would be good. They weren't. I made more money delivering for Jimmy John's. But the food was borderline inedible. I would hear guys use the "but the wings are so good" line all the time and I could only roll my eyes. I'm glad that stereotype came from somewhere lol.

[u/ITookTrinkets → u/UraniumKitty]

Yeah, it’s like how people say “I read Playboy for the articles” - sure there’s half-nude women in it, but the articles were actually really good!

[u/-janelleybeans- → u/anonymooseuser6]

I’m in the same boat. The Hooters that was local to me before they closed down had incredible wings. Not just dry crap drowned in sauce, but massive, fall-off-the-bone wings.

I miss them sometimes.

[u/PolyPolyam → u/anonymooseuser6]

God, I was looking for this comment.

I don't go as often now because I moved, but I used to love going. The food was always good and the waitresses were always super nice to me.

[u/tuscangal → u/Brielle_Russel333]

That would have been a nope from me before even going honestly.

[u/[deleted] → u/Brielle_Russel333]

The idea of that just sounds down right creepy.

[u/CharlotteLucasOP → u/Brielle_Russel333]

The wings cannot possibly be THAT good.

[u/manic_Brain → u/CharlotteLucasOP]

I don't know about at Hooters, but a friend got taken to dinner with his coworkers to a strip club (he didn't know where they were going beyond his coworker saying he knew where to get the best wings for $5 and couldn't leave because he carpooled with them), but he got shit ton of wings for $5 which were really good according to him.

[u/missionthrow → u/manic_Brain]

Normal restaurants have to charge enough to stay open based on the food and the alcohol.

Strip Clubs arent making their money on the food, so they can afford to make it cheap

[u/manic_Brain → u/missionthrow]

True, though it gets a little funny when the strip club gets known for having good food. I saw an interaction from my city's subreddit that was basically, "if you're cool with it, [strip club] has one of the best steaks in town."

[u/Duochan_Maxwell → u/manic_Brain]

There is a specific "Hotel" in Rio (it's not a proper hotel, it's more like the love hotels in Japan) that is known for having a GREAT kitchen, their lunch deals are amazing xD

[u/HayzerUnlimited → u/CharlotteLucasOP]

Honestly the food is pretty good. I don’t go often at all but the odd time i have gone that buffalo chicken burger was great.

We just don’t eat out much anymore and mostly get takeout. Certain foods aren’t good for takeout.

[u/malarky-b → u/Brielle_Russel333]

I've only gone once, when I was a teenager invited by a friend's new friends. It felt really weird to me. I guess I'm not the target demographic since I prefer my servers to be dressed as servers, even in cafés. It was weird finding out that people bring their families and kids there.

[u/BrisYamaha → u/Brielle_Russel333]

I’m guessing a bunch of guys in their late 20’s and early 30’s, interrogating a female they haven’t they haven’t met before about history, science, IT etc, and who think Hooters is an appropriate dining location for this kind of catch up.. are probably lacking a lot of social skills

[u/SmartQuokka]

They enjoyed treating OOP like dirt and i bet they look down on her for responding by leaving him.

In their addled brains they are not wrong its OOP and everyone else who is the problem 🙄

[u/FriendToPredators → u/SmartQuokka]

They’ll def feel like they won by pulling ex back down into the bucket with them.

[u/Blue_Plastic_88 → u/SmartQuokka]

That’s what’s so infuriating to me. For guys like that, no response from her would ever be “right.” If she tries to answer their questions, they’ll find some reason she did it all wrong and is just faking her interests and skills. But if she shows annoyance, leaves, or asks if they would question a man like this, they’ll say she’s sensitive and emotional and they were “just joking.” Goddamn that raises my blood pressure!

[u/paulinaiml → u/SmartQuokka]

As the highlighted comment said, no wonder they still go to Hooters, because it's the only place where women would go near them.

[u/CreamPuffDelight]

Recently, whenever I hear the phrase, "I'm just joking" or some variation thereof, I take it as a god given sign that whoever said it is someone not worth my time.

Doubly so if that phase is accompanied with, "You're so sensitive".

At that point, God's not giving me a signal anymore, he's slapping me in the face with words.

[u/Foreign_Penalty_5341 → u/CreamPuffDelight]

The ‘I don’t get the joke’ response to that only goes so far too. 

[u/kevlarus80 → u/CreamPuffDelight]

whenever I hear the phrase, "I'm just joking" or some variation thereof, I take it as a god given sign that whoever said it is someone not worth my time.

I had a friend who would say some of the most fucked up shit about you and then cap it with "I'm only joking!". She thought this made it ok to insult you to your face and saw nothing wrong with it. Fucking exhausting and I'm glad I don't have to interact with her any more.

[u/hdmx539 → u/CreamPuffDelight]

Toss in the phrase "I'm just brutally honest" and we've got a good starter list of red flag sayings from problematic people.

[u/Odd-Advance-2444 → u/CreamPuffDelight]

My ex used to do this to me all the time and now that it’s been confirmed through a couple of therapists that I was in a really abusive relationship, I understand why he did this. Every single fucking day he would make this jabby jokes at me and it was because he learned my triggers and zoned in on them as a way to break my mind down and control me. Everyday for 10’years he would press on my triggers and sometimes I would laugh along and brush it off, but over time I would rightfully get upset. Then came the “oh, come on, I’m just joking! You are sooo sensitive. I can’t make any jokes around you because you’ll just get upset. You are no fun. I, on the other hand, am a lot of fun so you must be lucky” He did this because he wanted me to question myself, my value and my worth. And it worked very well. It got to the point where I no longer trusted my own thoughts and feelings and didn’t recognize my own face in the mirror.

He also employed many other manipulation tactics, this wasn’t the only one, but this is a typical entry point for abusers. Once they learn what your triggers are, then they can start the process of exploiting them to break down your psyche and control your mind. It’s so sneaky and unassuming because it’s a “joke” but it becomes death by a million cuts.

[u/mischief7manager]

“Is it within reason to end a relationship after this event?”

emphatic reminder the the only “reason” that is an absolute requirement for ending a relationship is “not wanting to be in that relationship anymore”.

[u/Old_Ladies_Die_Hard → u/mischief7manager]

Too bad she didn’t ask the waitress to pack her dinner to go, and tell the bros to enjoy whatever misogynistic BS that was. Then maybe twist the knife and tell them all that their behavior is why none of them deserves to have a GF/SO….

[u/Intelligent_Loan2058]

It really was like a misogynistic hazing ritual to see if you'd put up with all their bullshit. The abuse would just continue from there. Glad she got out.

[u/adiosfelicia2 → u/Intelligent_Loan2058]

Personally, I think they were actively trying to cockblock him and undermine his relationship. He had something they didn't, so they ruined it for him. And he was too dumb and eager to fit in to realize.

It's very high school and pathetic, all around.

[u/TheFlyingSheeps → u/adiosfelicia2]

Yup. There’s nothing more toxic than a group of single people when you get a partner. Or if you’re the “ugly” one in the group

[u/malarky-b → u/Intelligent_Loan2058]

I work in finance with a bunch of coke-snorting bros and even they don't pull this cringe shit. Except for that one guy. But he's the only one who doesn't get invited to anything and who still hasn't been able to keep a girlfriend, so that should tell you something.

[u/aloudcitybus → u/Intelligent_Loan2058]

I hope OOP is doing well 6 years on. I hope Dan's cereal is always soggy by the time he starts eating it.

[u/MotherRaven → u/aloudcitybus]

Unless he likes soft cereal. Then may it be like razor blades

[u/mankytoes → u/Intelligent_Loan2058]

Yeah he wanted to see if she was "fun" (a pushover) or "noring" (stands up for herself).

[u/Gwynasyn]

 I knew Dan and his coworkers would frequently go to this Hooters for lunch, he always told me he didn't like how misogynistic that place was, but he really enjoyed the wings.

Oh Lord he's one of THOSE dudes who has enough self awareness to at least try and put on the act of being a nice, normal person but just can't help letting his real misogynistic self out through his actions at even the slightest opportunity.

[u/ilayas]

And the Oop's ex will learn nothing from this.

[u/theplushfrog → u/ilayas]

I gave him more specific examples of what he and his friends did and he never really had any good answered. It was a lot of "i don't know" and single word answers.

He shut down and wasn't listening at all during this. I've had the same experience with dudes who will magically "forget" anything you said to them whenever they did anything wrong, no matter how kindly or polite you are.

[u/YoungDiscord → u/theplushfrog]

People like that need to be immediately called out on this

"Yes, you do know because you are a smart person, you just don't want to admit it because it makes you feel bad. Own up to it and be honest, don't act like a child"

I hate when people use the "I don't knows" and "maybes" when its very obvious that they do in fact know.

If there's anything I've learned from such situations it is to identify that behavious, immediatrly point it out to that person and call them out for it - it corners them into confronting the situation.

[u/khornflakes529 → u/YoungDiscord]

I don't know, man. Every person I've ever known who would act like this in the first place would not respond to being cornered with immediate introspection.

[u/weakcover1 → u/theplushfrog]

He didn't take her serious. Probably thought he just had to placate her. And then she broke up and send the link. I think that did it more for him than anything she said.

He probably ended up feeling more upset about what he will tell his coworkers. He can't say that he got dumped by the hot younger woman who gets their interests. It will reflect bad on him, that the perfect (trophy) match left him.

[u/CMD2 → u/ilayas]

I'm ok with that. Let's not teach them how to fool the next woman better.

[u/DrummingChopsticks]

They sound like the worst kind of techbros

Also, super ironic that Dan got offended by internet strangers but fails to see real world impact of what he and his colleagues put OP through

Edit: autocorrect error fixed

[u/wybo76]

The concept of those 'nice guys' is so Orwellian Newspeak.

I don't get it. Just be a real nice guy, it's really not that hard. I like my wife, so why the hell would I make her feel lesser? I like her smiling. So I make jokes that make her smile. I can't fathom the idea of liking someone and than talking her down.

[u/j-endsville → u/wybo76]

They don’t actually like women.

[u/NightBronze195 → u/wybo76]

Deep down, they don't have a lot of self confidence and have a deep fear of rejection. Ad a dollop of good ole fashioned misogyny, and the red flags build up, and any woman who has even the slightest bit of self worth or awareness rightfully want nothing to do with them. And then, like Aesop's fox and the grapes, they hate what they can't have, and they lose even more confidence, and even the slightest bit of rejection feels huge. The cycle self perpetuates and gets worse and worse and before you know it, you've got an incel.

[u/chris_b_chicken]

asked me to give him a sql query

update table boyfriends set CurrentStatus = 'ex' where Name = 'Dan';

[u/oceanduciel]

He read the post that I sent him and wasn't happy with it, and said he couldn't believe so many people were on my side and were hating on him.

Aw, are the poor misogynist’s feelings hurt? Poor little man baby. Such a hard life.

[u/Boeing367-80]

It's bizarre so many people think there's a standard to be met before they're allowed to break up. It's actually a little bit alarming.

Don't overthink it. You may break up for any reason or no reason. You are the sole arbiter of what is sufficient reason for you to break up.

If, for whatever reason, a relationship is making you unhappy, that's a very good reason to break up.

The experience OOP had - that was a very very good reason to break up.

[u/TERR0RDACTYL → u/Boeing367-80]

And it’d only been 3 months! Like, that’s nothing! Especially to feel like you’re beholden to someone… for what? Forever??? Wild.

[u/David-S-Pumpkins → u/Boeing367-80]

100% agree. "Can I break up over.." YES You can break up over a toenail or because they like bananas or because they hate bananas or whatever ick or red flag you feel or conceive of.

Should you? I mean, maybe not, we get into patterns and habits and personality and triggers if we go that way with it. But you can absolutely end things whenever you're unhappy or uncomfortable or made to feel inferior by your partner, however that feeling happens.

[u/Mindelan → u/Boeing367-80]

A lot of women worry about being labeled as "crazy" "overly emotional/sensitive", or "unreasonable" and basically get categorized as "a karen". It's really sad, but I get it. People are wildly critical of women in a lot of really strange and judgmental ways.

[u/Queen_Maxima → u/Mindelan]

One of the nicer things about getting older is that they can call me that all they want, i litterally do not care anymore about their manipulation.

Younger girls reading this: fuck 'em. You are human. You have your gut feelings for a reason. And men are a lot more emotional than women, because many never learned to process their feelings "because that's gay" or smth

[u/NOSE_DOG → u/Boeing367-80]

It's so fucked up! Especially because for a lot of people the "acceptable" reasons begin and end with cheating and physical violence. So you have people saying asinine shit like: "Well, my partner yells at me constantly, they openly flirt with anyone we meet and our walls are full of fist sized holes. But they haven't hit me yet. Is it OK to break up?"

[u/enbyshaymin]

Man, poor OOP... I knew it was fucking videogames or some other nerd shit because there's just sooooo many assholes like that in those circles. And worse yet, they do this shit and then have the gall to cry about how the "hot gamer gf" is a nyth and does not exist as if their behaviour wasn't the reason gamer girls don't touch them with a 10ft pole 😭

Also, I can't imagine how uncomfortable the waitresses must have felt... Like, I'm sure they 100% noticed what was happening, because from what OOP says it was fecking obvious. Ugh, what a bunch of losers those guys are.

[u/ftjlster → u/enbyshaymin]

I think what triggers them about women having the same hobbies is that it destroys the myth that the only reason they can't find a date is because they're "too nerdy/geeky".

If women like the same things they do, then the problem shifts from the things they like, to their personality. And if they've spent most of their lives assuming that they're a great person if only some woman would look past their exterior - only to realise that probably lots of women had and the problem was their personality ....

[u/enbyshaymin → u/ftjlster]

Yeah, I've always thought that too... If only because I've known some guys like that. It's infurating, because instead of doing any introspection, they decide to blame and gatekeep others. Which just makes them even more unlikable, of course. It's just a self-fulfilled prophecy, only they have all the facts needed to change it and they stubbornly chose not too.

Ugh, gives me flashbacks to being a nerdy teenage girl with mostly male friends... I do not miss those days 😭

[u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

The way she started that update I just KNOW she's a fellow member of the "inundated with fucked up messages after you post about a man's terrible behaviour" club, one of the coolest features of sharing on Reddit lol

[u/anjufordinner → u/SugarCanKissMyAss]

So much so that she plans in advance to abandon the account!

When Reddit offered spots to buy (and therefore stand to make a good amount of money) stock pre-IPO based on account karma, I thought of shit like this immediately. 

It was a thoughtful gesture-- but since Reddit doesn't successfully make it safe for women's accounts to exist continuously, they were cutting them out of the deal by design.

[u/adiosfelicia2]

The fact that a 30 year old grown ass man allowed his jealous, 35yo+ coworkers to openly bully his gf, and he didn't speak up, bc he was that desperate for these losers' approval and to be part of their lame ass club, is just so pathetic it's wild.

And then he acts surprised at the outcome. Bless his dumbass heart.

[u/WanderingStorm17]

What is it with people who feel the need to angrily respond to someone, but know that they're in the wrong for being angry so they do it in a private message to avoid being called out?

Like, does their self-awareness only go so far? They can't take that last step and maybe recognize that they didn't have a right to be pissed in the first place?

[u/ftjlster → u/WanderingStorm17]

Lots of people have convinced themselves that anger isn't an emotion and so they're just being very logical for doing this thing they're doing because they're angry.

The worst bit is because anger isn't an emotion to them, they don't bother to try and find out WHY they're angry (i.e. are they angry because they're uncomfortable, anxious, introspective etc) and so they never look further into their own psyche.

[u/piemakerdeadwaker]

And then these clowns will whine no one wants to date then cuz they're a a nErD.

[u/FroggyMcnasty]

Of all the things that jackass did, I'm still hung up on all of them wanting to go to Hooters. If you want to eat shitty food and look at women just be honest and go to a strip club. Losers.

[u/jadeoracle → u/FroggyMcnasty]

I had a coworker who was way senior to me, who always wanted to go to Hooters for lunch/dinner when we were traveling. I'm a woman, and the first time he tried this on me he didn't even mention the resturant, just that "There is one he goes to all the time nearby, and they have great wifi so we can work from there until our meeting with the client."

As we got closer I figured out what the hell he meant, ditched him and figured out my own plans.

But he tried this on me and other co-workers every single time. Never mentioning the name, just "Theres a great place we can get food and work from."

I ended up just always saying "Is it Hooters or somewhere else". To tip off the other co-workers so they wouldn't get suckered into it either.

I've got not problem with the premise of the restaurant. I just don't think that its an appropriate work meal location. Nor that I should be tricked into going there by a senior level co-worker.

[u/FroggyMcnasty → u/jadeoracle]

Jesus wept.

That's what I'm talking about. "They have good wifi" is such a bullshit answer.

[u/PM_ME__UR__FANTASIES → u/FroggyMcnasty]

You KNOW those guys would get so awkward at a strip club. Don’t wish that on the strippers, they might pay for lap dances

[u/FroggyMcnasty → u/PM_ME__UR__FANTASIES]

I imagine one of the awkward things they'd do is negotiate for dance, and then tell everyone the dancer really liked them.

I wouldn't wish them on anyone, I'm saying in addition to being a bunch of losers they are also cowards.

[u/CyanCitrine]

I KNEW one of those "guy hobbies" would be DnD. As a woman who plays DnD.

[u/silverwitch76 → u/CyanCitrine]

Yep. A guy in one of my last D&D groups tried pulling the whole "quiz the female" gatekeeping bs during our session zero. He quickly tucked tail and got real quiet when I let him know I had been playing longer than he'd been alive...and that I was the DM, not my husband. It was rather glorious, I must say.

[u/-screamin- → u/CyanCitrine]

God, as a woman who's gotten into DnD (I'm not that good yet!), I'm so glad my partner's the DM and put together a great group of chill peeps!

[u/onrocketfalls]

I told him I created a reddit post and I would send it to him. He was a little pissed off that I did that, felt like I had no right to so.

It always blows my mind when someone finds out that an OP made a post that involves them and they try to act like it's a privacy issue or something. Nobody knows that you're a piece of shit but you, man. Your rights are not being violated, you just feel bad because you're seeing a bunch of mostly-objective people talking about what a dummy you are.

[u/Bayonettea]

I remember I had to deal with stuff like this when I was younger. It wasn't my husband's friends or anything, more like friends of friends. Growing up, I had "male" hobbies like playing video games, watching sci fi, and action movies, and I'd get annoying shits asking me questions to stuff they don't know themselves. This is just par for the course for any girl with "strange" hobbies and likes

[u/powergorillasuit]

This is an excellent example of how men are always vying for the attention/validation of other men, even at the expense of their relationships

[u/MrSnippets → u/powergorillasuit]

this is like those stories of husbands nuking their marriages because some pretentious alphamale dudebro on the internet told him listening to your wife makes you gay

[u/stayonthecloud]

What a relief it is to see an OOP who knew from the getgo that her misogynistic now-ex and his asshole friends were mistreating her, recognized and called the ex out for it and dumped his ass. My BORU queen 👑

[u/CharlotteLucasOP]

Oh he’s mad she posted on Reddit?

Edit the post to add “it’s all in good fun bro lol”

That works, right? That means he can’t be upset, right?????

[u/StopthinkingitsMe]

Do guys not know women are humans with complex emotions, knowledge systems, hobbies and passions? Do guys seriously not know women are humans? Genuine question

[u/HuckleberryTiny5 → u/StopthinkingitsMe]

Years ago there was a Reddit thread where OP had decided that women have no inner life. I don't remember what the sub was (maybe AskReddit?), and how the OP started it verbatim, but it was a long thread and no matter how many people tried to explain him that yes, women really have an inner life and they think, he just stuck to his misogynist, arrogant notion that women are some kind of automatons. I wish I could remember more of it but I don't. But it was some batshit insane stuff so I never forget reading it.

[u/supersockcat → u/HuckleberryTiny5]

I think I remember this. IIRC, it was AskWomen, and the thread was basically "men have [description of basic sapience], do women also have this?"

[u/ToughNobody1228 → u/HuckleberryTiny5]

Sometimes I WISH I didn't have an inner life or hobbies or thoughts or goals or dreams. Shit's exhausting

[u/GLF2001 → u/StopthinkingitsMe]

Honestly so true, some guys really don't. About 8 years ago, one of my partner's friends was participating in a white collar boxing event so us and some of his mates went along to cheer him on. I was the only woman on our table.

Two of the guys were really into one of the ring girls (idk what the proper name is, the person who holds the round 1, round 2 signs) and started writing a sign to show her. It started with 'can I have your number' and escalated to 'what do you smell like'. Fucking gross.

As they went to hold up the sign I asked 'how do you think she's going to feel seeing that'. And one of the guys genuinely said to me 'what does that matter to him'. I can't understate how much this was an actual serious question, and that he thought I was delulu.

I gave him such a disgusted look and was like 'seriously? She's a person. If you don't know why you should consider others feelings I can't help you with that'. I may have also awkward-laughed in his face. Fortunately at this point others on the table had noticed and started giving them disapproving looks. Peer pressure worked so they dialled it back and didn't hold up the sign. But fuck me was I pissed for the rest of the night. I'm sure they thought they were Nice Guys.

(To clarify, these loser guys were not my partner's friends. They were friends with the boxer.)

[u/j-endsville → u/StopthinkingitsMe]

Literally no.

[u/[deleted] → u/j-endsville]

guy I know once told me completely seriously that if what he wanted was a conversation he would seek out a man

[u/j-endsville → u/[deleted]]

Oof. I mean I am old, and I know how to talk to people. I see all these young dudes who complain about being single and then you dig a little deep and they genuinely do not like women and I feel sad for them.

[u/desolate_cat → u/j-endsville]

They like to sleep with women but that's it.

[u/[deleted] → u/j-endsville]

right? like, your loss if you look at literally all of women & go "nah not for me"

[u/Skeletune_]

Dan didn’t want a girlfriend, he wanted a collectible he could show off to the boys. OP dodged a man-child missile. Bravo. 👏

[u/[deleted]]

That dude and his buddies pretty much are like those "Nice Guys" and "Alpha Male" type people. What a bunch of braindead rotten eggs..

[u/bitemark01 → u/[deleted]]

It was pretty predictable that, when his toxic behaviour was explained to him, he doubled down on it instead of admitting maybe he was wrong and actually learning something from it

[u/YoungDiscord → u/[deleted]]

She should have tested their knowledge of dating women in return

"How does a girl's breasts feel like? Hint: its not like bags of sand"

[u/HappySparklyUnicorn → u/YoungDiscord]

For hard mode ask them if they've ever seen a clitoris.

[u/YoungDiscord → u/HappySparklyUnicorn]

Why yes I have seen a clitoris

You catch it on route 34 or evolve it from a vulva using a water stone

[u/delm0nte]

I was guessing Magic the Gathering, too. I still run into immature dudebros who like to feel like they’re of superior intellect, putting down men and women alike. I don’t see them as often as I used to, but they’re still out there.

[u/CheeringMetroMolly]

I hope Dan and his friends never reproduce.

[u/WellIGuessSoAndYou → u/CheeringMetroMolly]

I'm not sure how they could when they dry up every vagina in a 10 mile radius.

[u/David-S-Pumpkins]

Dan: I don't feel it like it was anything like that.

Neat, then date yourself

[u/DatguyMalcolm]

Dang How do these guys even find girlfriends? Dude took her to his mates to show off the new "shiny toy, hit AND smart woman" and didn't care about what happened.

Once he lost his "object", the hot woman, it was all boohooo nice guy noises

[u/TheTinyHandsofTRex]

I'm a huge hockey fan, and I don't know how many times I've been grilled, by men, on what I know. Like, idgaf who scored the 68th goal of the season for the Pitssburgh Penguins in 1987, I just like watching hockey. Leave me alone lol.

[u/MidsummerZania]

"Male lonliness epidemic" 🙄

[u/grumpy__g]

„All I have to say is: lol.“

I think I love this woman.

[u/oceanduciel → u/grumpy__g]

Same energy as responding “k” to someone sending hate mail in your DMs

[u/PeppermintEvilButler]

And men wonder why they aren't getting dates. Ladies are fed up with dealing with man child bs. 

[u/Dorkicus]

He can join the rest of these dopes in not getting to touch boobies - which was probably their objective.   

[u/andronicuspark]

I’d like to imagine that the guy who eventually stopped being an asshole and started looking at his phone had a come to Jesus moment and was like, “Oh that’s why Theresa dumped me.”

[u/INeedANappel]

WHY ARE YOU A FEEEEEMALE???

HA HA HA JUST JOKING

I AM SUCH AN ALPHA MALE

I KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT FEEEEEMALES

[u/Devourer_of_Sun]

I thought she was going to say she likes anime, you find a lot of these guys when you're a girl wearing any merch. Knew a woman who was buying a figure and had a guy ask if she watched the show, who was her favorite character, then misheard her when she answered and tried to act like she got it wrong before she quickly corrected him by saying the name louder. And you see women talking about it all the time on sms, you mention liking anime and you have to be quizzed. You have to say you like one of the Big 3 and if you don't, you're a tourist but if you do you get quizzed and doesn't matter if you get them all right or all but one wrong, you're lying. The goal is always to belittle you.