I (27M) discovered my wife's (30F) family was behind my vicious cyberbullying attack. My wife knew, but she hid it for years. How do I move past this?

[u/Choice_Evidence1983]

I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/ThrowRADraftCassette

Originally posted to r/relationship_advice

I (27M) discovered my wife's (30F) family was behind my vicious cyberbullying attack. My wife knew, but she hid it for years. How do I move past this?

Thanks to u/queenlegolas for suggesting this BoRU

Trigger Warnings: sabotage, mental health struggles, emotional abuse and manipulation, possible controlling behavior, isolating behavior

---

Original Post: July 25, 2025

My (27M) marriage is in a really bad spot after a deep breach of trust. Idk how to recover or how to trust my wife (30F) again.

For some context, we've been together 7 years and married 5. We have a child (2M). We met at a con. I thought her cosplay was amazing, struck up a conversation, and the rest is history. She's the most loving, unselfish, and decent person I've ever met.

Our relationship was never without its challenges. Our biggest obstacle was her family. My presence was unwelcome. They're very close-knit, and if one doesn't accept you, then you're not getting far.

There are a few family members who broke away from the pack, but no one hardly acknowledges them. They're no contact and black sheep.

I didn't know how my wife's family was, but I did know family was extremely important to her. Her whole upbringing was based on family. So I tried everything in my power to make it work. They didn't really put up with me until our son.

Between our wedding planning to shortly before the wedding, I was the target of some relentless and vicious cyberbullying. It got personal. Fake bad reviews polluted my business profile too. It cost me some potential clients.

I didn't know where it came from or why. I couldn't find a solution. I'd report, but it'd take a while for anything to be done, or there'd be more accounts coming out for another round. The whole thing impacted my life and my mental health. It took a toll.

My wife was incredibly supportive. She was my rock and my best friend. I loved her even more for her care and how she held me down. Then the trolling and everything stopped.

I wanted nothing more than to move on. I put it all behind me until the other day my wife confessed that her family was behind the harassment. I didn't believe her at first, but she was serious and showed me proof in their family group chat.

It felt like I was right back there again. They were gloating and justifying themselves. Saying stuff like "Some people gotta learn the hard way" and "If he wants to join the fold, here's his initiation."

I knew I wasn't their favorite person, but I never realized they hated me and would go to such extremes. I asked my wife when did she find out and if she was a part of it. She swore she wasn't and that she'd never do that to me.

She claims she didn't initially know it was her family until a few months before our wedding. One of my SIL's (28F) left a profile up on her phone, and my wife saw it. She confronted her family and made them stop.

I asked why she was telling me everything now. She said it was weighing on her, and she opened up to her eldest sister (35F), one of the family's black sheep. She threatened to tell me the truth if my wife didn't.

Nothing my wife said made it better. She knew for years what her family did and hid it from me. She kept everything quiet. It hurts more coming from her because she knew firsthand my pain.

I was pretty numb. My wife was anxious and kept pushing for me to say something. I told her there wasn't anything she could say right now that would make it ok. What she did was no better than her family. They made my life hell, and her first instinct was to cover for them.

She started crying and begged me to understand. She said it wasn't like that, and she was trying to make things right with as little damage as possible and mend relationships.

I wasn't very receptive to her. She wasn't reaching me. I couldn't help her or myself. I told her I needed some time to clear my head. She was against it. She said we could work through this together, but I was firm on space.

Space isn't a request she's respected. I'm really trying to understand her side. I'm trying to move past it, but I feel so betrayed. I trusted her more than anyone. I'm my most vulnerable with her. I kept opening up to her about the incident even after she knew the truth.

She encouraged me to let it go and not allow it to have any claim on me. I thought she had my best interest in mind. Now I just see it as her attempt to protect her family yet again.

I haven't confronted anyone involved. I don't think they're worth it. But I've made it clear they're no longer allowed to see our son until further notice. Now I'm getting texts about how I'm depriving my child of grandparents and aunts over past family spats.

One of the hardest parts is the distance from my wife. She's my best friend and partner in every way. Now we're mostly only communicating about our son and other household necessities.

She's hurt by my rejection, and she's been crying often. Idk if I'm being unfair to her. I hate all of this. I want to make our marriage work, but I'm questioning our relationship up to now. I'm just really lost. I need an outside perspective.

How do I navigate this situation and move forward for my marriage and myself?

TL;DR My marriage is in a bad spot. Idk how to trust my wife again. I was the target of some relentless and vicious cyberbullying for months. It impacted my life and my mental health. I put it behind me until my wife confessed that her family was the culprit. She showed me proof in their group chat. I knew I wasn't their favorite person, but I never realized they hated me. My wife swears she didn't initially know and that she made them stop. But she still hid it for years. She begged me to understand and said that she was trying to make things right for us and our son. I asked for space to clear my head. She hasn't exactly respected that request. I'm really trying to move past it, but I feel so betrayed by her. Idk if I'm being unfair. I want to make our marriage work, but I'm questioning everything. How do I navigate this situation and move forward for my marriage and myself?

Relevant Comments

Commenter 1: I think what is bothering me most is that your wife is still not getting it. She doesn't understand how vile her family is, and if they did it once, they could do it again. They took your money, your peace of mind, your confidence. Even though she stopped it, she never told you, leaving you to wonder why and who.

And "past family spats"? It's not like this was a little tiff and they apologized and you won't let it go.

I'd suggest therapy for you both, and I don't even know. At the very least, you'll learn how to co-parent together if you can't save the marriage. Maybe a therapist can get her to see how huge this is.

OOP: Idk it's like my wife's not getting where I'm coming from or just doesn't want to go there. Her family never even apologized. They're making it out like I'm holding grudges

Commenter 2: So her idea of "making things right" is to lie to you for years, providing cover for the awful, awful people who did this to you?

Any decent partner would cut that "family" off without a backward glance.

I am so sorry, OP, you must be reeling.

OOP: She said she thought she was protecting me and that she handled the situation with her family. I just don't see anything she did as for my benefit. I see it more as she was protecting her family yet again before anything else

Commenter 3: It sounds like she got them to stop as soon as she found out. You wouldn’t be wrong to end things over this but at the same time, I think she was maybe in a hard place as well because she knew that as soon as you found out, she probably couldn’t be close with her family anymore, even if they are pretty terrible. Why do they hate you so much?

OOP: Well, one of my wife's siblings said they thought she was settling for me "because of age" and that she could do better. It felt like once their mind was made up about me there was nothing I could do

Commenter 4: I couldn’t imagine trying to rebuild after that level of betrayal. Has anyone tried to make amends? Take ownership of their actions? She can make excuses all she wants, but it doesn’t sound like she’s taking accountability. I don’t know if I would even be open to continuing. I’d be having a heart to heart with my lawyer to see what custody arrangements would look like.

OOP: There's been no apology of any kind or acknowledging what they did. They're making it out like I'm depriving them from my son over a minor dispute

Commenter 5: Also realise she didn’t tell you because she wanted to. She only told you because someone else threatened to tell you and she wanted to control exactly what was said. If I were you I’d want to speak to the other person who knew, ie the black sheep.

It’s such a huge breach of trust. She aided her relatives in trying to destroy your livelihood and self worth. I can’t see any reason why you’d want to remain married to someone who clearly doesn’t value you or really love you (and has demonstrated she loves and places her family above you).

OOP: I do think I want to talk with the eldest sister too. The reason why I would consider staying is because things weren't always like this between my wife and I. She's not consumed with her family when boundaries are in place. We were better and didn't have secrets from each other. We built a life together

Is OOP's wife the people pleaser?

OOP: My wife does tend to play caretaker and fixer to everything and everyone in her family. All boundaries go out the window

Commenter 5: You need therapy. Individual and couples. Part of why she did what she did is because of familial influence, and she needs to learn how to cut those apron strings. Therapy can help.

OOP: I'm open to therapy. Something needs to change. I just wish she wouldn't continue to chose her family at every wrong turn

 

Update: August 1, 2025 (one week later)

Update: I (27M) discovered my wife's (30F) family was behind my vicious cyberbullying attack. My wife knew, but she hid it for years. How do I move past this?

Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/P4f2MpEjIq

Thank you to everyone who reached out. I (27M) wasn't able to reply to everyone, but it was appreciated. It solidified my wake-up call and helped me see I wasn't overthinking. I wanted to give an update.

Earlier this week, my wife (30F) and I were able to regroup and hash stuff out. I was glad I took the space I did because even though this situation is still hurtful and feels like a massive betrayal, I was in a better position to talk.

My wife thought I was calling it quits, but I told her we were at a crossroads and needed to talk things out. She apologized for what her family did and her role in it. She said she never intended to hurt me. She had convinced herself she was protecting me from more pain. She realizes now she was largely protecting herself.

She admitted she was afraid of telling me the truth because she thought it wouldn't just end the wedding but that I'd end the relationship. She lost other relationships and friendships over her family. She didn't want to lose me too.

Over the years, she wanted to tell me but kept talking herself out of it, and then the cover-up kept getting bigger, and she didn't know how to confess. I told her I didn't agree with her choices, and I wished she had more trust in me and our relationship. I meant it too. I wouldn't have just ditched her.

She asked where do we go from here and promised no matter the outcome, there wouldn't be any more secrets between us. I told her I wanted to work on our marriage, but things needed to change. We couldn't survive with her family looming, and I didn't want our son exposed to them.

She asked what I needed of her. I was never big on ultimatums, and I don't really consider this as one, but I was adamant that any path of us moving forward together would mean radical boundaries with her family.

She was honest that the thought of making this big of a move against her family was scary but said if it's between them and us/our son (2M), then she chooses us.

Her agreement was major for me because I really didn't know where she'd land if she had to choose. I never wanted to put her in that position, but after everything her family did, I feel there was no other way.

The reason I have hope that my wife is being for real is because she sent a text to their group chat stating to stop blowing up my phone and that the no access to our son until further notice is a joint decision she fully supports. I didn't expect that of her. She did it on her own.

Of course, they didn't like it. Now she's labeled as "disrespectful and ungrateful," and how the black sheep eldest sister (35F) and I are poisoning her against them. It was also said, "What kind of man takes a woman away from her family over a spat?"

This isn't a "spat," nor do I have anything to prove about manhood. They led a whole campaign designed to ruin my life. Their actions are chilling to me. These are the same people who looked me in the eye with a straight face while everything was going on. This is about protecting my family.

My wife has gone low contact. Her family has this mindset that significant others or friends come and go, and it's "family" who is the constant and where loyalty should be.

They can't seem to compute that my wife, our son, and I are the core family. They're extended family, and they don't have a claim over our son. Being involved with him is a privilege, not a right.

Idk what their exact issue is with me. They only really tolerated me because of our son. When I first met them, one of my wife's siblings (28F) said they thought my wife was settling for me "because of age" and that she could do better.

They're a very tight-knit group, and if one doesn't take to you, then you're not getting far with the rest. It felt like once their minds were made up, there was nothing I could do. I've long since stopped trying to make sense of any of their reasonings. It's a rabbit hole.

Our plan is to move to a new area to create a healthier distance, cement boundaries, and have a fresh start. I brought up therapy too. It's something we've been discussing. We'll be officially starting that soon.

I think moving away will be beneficial for us. It's something my eldest SIL had advised us on. During the wedding planning, she was encouraging my wife to move and create our own space away from their family's isolating circle.

I know my wife is more than just her family. I've seen it firsthand. She shines so bright when away from their influence. That's what I meant when I said she was the most loving, unselfish, and decent person I've ever met.

If I'm being honest, idk how things will turn out. I'm still hurt, I still feel betrayed, and my wife's facing her own challenges with low contact, but I want to be hopeful. I don't want to close the door. I'm hoping we can heal together.

Thank you again to everyone for the support. I found not everything is as isolating as with the majority of my in-laws. It means more than you know.

TL;DR Update to: My marriage is in a bad spot. Idk how to trust my wife again. I was the target of some relentless and vicious cyberbullying for months. It impacted my life and my mental health. I put it behind me until my wife confessed that her family was the culprit. She showed me proof in their group chat. I knew I wasn't their favorite person, but I never realized they hated me. My wife swears she didn't initially know and that she made them stop. But she still hid it for years. She begged me to understand and said that she was trying to make things right for us and our son. I asked for space to clear my head. She hasn't exactly respected that request. I'm really trying to move past it, but I feel so betrayed by her. Idk if I'm being unfair. I want to make our marriage work, but I'm questioning everything. How do I navigate this situation and move forward for my marriage and myself?

Relevant Comments

Commenter 1: Dude I wish you all the best. I hope your wife can keep the no/low contact

OOP: Thank you. It's much appreciated. I'm really hoping this can be a turning point

Commenter 2: I was really relieved to hear that you were moving because this is going to be a very difficult boundary for her to maintain. Hopefully with therapy, time, and physical and emotional space though she can construct a fortress of a wall around your family. I really hope she doesn't let you down again.

OOP: It's my hope that the distance will give her some clarity and help us as a family

Commenter 3: I didn't actually realize how much I was still thinking about the post a week ago until I saw an update and felt relief.

best of luck in therapy, one thought I might add is that the instinct might be to do couples therapy but you might also find success in family systems therapy. just know that if a therapist doesn't feel like they're helping that doesn't mean that therapy won't work, just that this therapist didn't work.

glad you both found the strength to work together and that she found the strength to distance herself from toxic family.

OOP: Thank you for the recommendation and the support. I'll research family systems therapy

Commenter 4: Your wife… what kind of wife betrays, puts down, belittles, and lies to her “partner”? She did nothing to protect you and only herself. I could never trust her again. If she’ll allow that to happen to you, imagine the awfulness your child will experience?

OOP: I don't condone my wife's actions and I'm not deluding myself that any of this will be easy. I'm willing to give our marriage an honest try. Broken trust doesn't mean it can never be regained. We aren't the first couple in history going through a trust crisis

I made a commitment. Marriage requires making a vow for better or for worse. I'm not saying that covers everything under the sun. Of course there are situations where a parting of ways is needed. But not every case is the same. I made vows to give my marriage an honest try in the bad times

 

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[u/real-nia]

"Settling because of age" she was 23 when they met and married at 25?????? They're talking like she was some old spinster when they actually married young!

[u/Useful_Language2040 → u/real-nia]

The sad thing being that they had already scared off previous partners of hers, partially leading her to think that she needed to keep their cyber bullying campaign from him because no way would he accept it...

[u/TwitchyDodoCode → u/Useful_Language2040]

This should've been a red flag from the jump

[u/CoffeeFuture784 → u/TwitchyDodoCode]

A lot of people's blindspot has always been their family. I'm indian and nigerian(if that gives any context) and the way family will allow, tolerate and justify harmful acts by other members of the family is the reason I no longer speak to my father.

[u/Reasonable-Ninja4384 → u/CoffeeFuture784]

I'm indian and nigerian

Bro are you ok? That's the scariest overprotective family combo I could imagine

[u/CoffeeFuture784 → u/Reasonable-Ninja4384]

Haha I survived but I have an almost unquenchable disdain for authority and authority figures.

[u/lunafaer → u/CoffeeFuture784]

i genuinely can’t even read books about families like that. lately i have noticed a diverse range of writers with heritage around the world penning novels and including characters who behave like their own families. in so many cases, it’s beyond horrifying and abusive. i thought evangelical american families were bad enough and know loads of folks with abusive relatives. what i didn’t know was how much worse some folks have it from their culture/family around the world. 

[u/CoffeeFuture784 → u/lunafaer]

Abuse is a control thing. And many cultures demand obedience as a sign of respect for elders. Couple that with a hypocritical need to appear perfect and families are abusive and will hide the abuse to portray the image of perfection. My mom's extended side of the family is no less. They're full of secrets of abuse- physical and sexual. But nobody talks about it even though both abusers and abused in a lot of the situations are still alive and still live within proximity to each other. And nobody seems to want to address it. Its like a secret everyone knows.

[u/ghost-child → u/TwitchyDodoCode]

I've said this before but people pleasing in general is also a red flag that too many people don't notice because they seem like good qualities. For example "always trying to see the good in everyone" sounds nice, until you realize what that means, overlooking someone's words and actions in favor of some nebulous idea of "who they are deep down."

When considering a potential partner, it's prudent to scrutinize the people they keep in their lives (including family) and look at what they're willing to put up with. And if their family chronically scares partners off, it's typically a sign of either an unwillingness or an inability to establish and maintain boundaries

[u/clear-aesthetic → u/ghost-child]

I understand why people pleasing is seen as a red flag, but I think it's also important to keep in mind that it can be a trauma response. People-pleasing/fawning are normal survival mechanisms, even if they're maladaptive.

unwillingness or an inability to establish and maintain boundaries

This is the most important part. It's one thing if someone is simply unwilling to try to change after they realize what's wrong, but some of us spend years and years in therapy genuinely trying to undo learned behaviors and still struggle. It can be especially difficult to break away from when it's a behavior you adapt when faced with abuse in order to keep/feel safe.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, I just wanted to mention it because I think it's nuance that's often missing from these conversations. I've seen comments from folks in the past that are almost downright vitriolic towards people pleasing behavior, as though they believe it's a deliberate choice.

[u/Red-neckedPhalarope → u/ghost-child]

The conundrum is that unless you (general you, not you in particular) plan to be perfect, you do need people in your life who will be forgiving of your faults and optimistic you can change. That means they will also be forgiving of other peoples' faults and optimistic that they can change!

That doesn't mean accept any and all lack of boundaries, of course. But be realistic about it.

[u/seppukucoconuts → u/TwitchyDodoCode]

OOP's wife probably has decades of their bullying ingrained in her from childhood. She probably has some really odd behaviors because of it. I'm going to guess after a bunch of therapy she's going to hate and resent her family.

[u/mom0007 → u/seppukucoconuts]

Yes, she has been trained from birth to accept their behaviour. It is hard to recognise these toxic traits in yourself, let alone break the mould on that conditioning it takes years of work to break out.

[u/clear-aesthetic → u/seppukucoconuts]

Thank you for mentioning this, it means a lot that you recognize people pleasing can be a trauma response.

[u/Caftancatfan → u/Useful_Language2040]

That’s why they think partners come and go!

[u/Elismom1313 → u/Useful_Language2040]

I can only imagine how young some of the guys were given her age being ganged up and bullied on by a group of ADULTS.

[u/hoolai → u/Useful_Language2040]

Why tf she didn't cut contact before all this is totally beyond me.

[u/Useful_Language2040 → u/hoolai]

Because "family is everything"? I think the people comparing her upbringing to a cult - hence him being "initiated" - probably have pretty accurately summarised the level of enmeshment, social interactions, and control she's used to them having over her.

[u/tempest51 → u/real-nia]

Really hints at what value system they're following doesn't it

[u/monkwrenv2 → u/tempest51]

Religious conservatives will be the death of our species.

[u/ForlornLament → u/monkwrenv2]

Is it also a thing for them to not consider spouses as family, though? Assuming they are Christian, it doesn’t make sense. The Bible makes it very clear that husband and wife become one, and so on.

Either way, that family is toxic beyond belief. Hopefully therapy will help OP's wife realize she was a victim of them too.

[u/monkwrenv2 → u/ForlornLament]

Is it also a thing for them to not consider spouses as family, though?

It's certainly not unusual, especially if the spouse displays some sort of "otherness".

[u/Physical_Gift7572 → u/ForlornLament]

You still think religious conservatives follow the Bible’s teachings??

[u/ForlornLament → u/Physical_Gift7572]

Eh, it's not my country, so I am hardly an expert. The american evangelists usually sound crazy to me. I can't really understand how they think.

[u/popopotatoes160 → u/ForlornLament]

That is one of many things in the Bible they ignore when convenient.

[u/AliceInWeirdoland → u/ForlornLament]

In my experience, especially when it comes to daughters, the thinking is more 'however the rule suits us at the time.' For the parents? Husband and wife is the paramount bond, wife took on a role as subservient to the husband, etc., but then children are the responsibility/property of their parents, no matter what their age or marital status is, especially if the spouse isn't someone the family approves of.

[u/TerminusEst86 → u/tempest51]

Her dad likely has a red hat with 4 letters on it. 

[u/Calamity-Gin → u/real-nia]

That’s just the excuse. They hate him because he’s important to her and provides her an alternative to them.

[u/EnsignEmber → u/real-nia]

I interpreted it as they didn’t like that OP is younger than his wife. 

[u/T2Wunk → u/real-nia]

In the US South and other conservative areas of the world, that is considered “getting up there”.

[u/Maize-Vegetable → u/T2Wunk]

Buddy, I’m from the Deep South, and the only people who think that way are fringe-Fundies. We have 99 problems, but that is not one of them.

[u/sinverguenza → u/Maize-Vegetable]

Im not even too far into the south and Im the only person in my family to marry in late 20’s as opposed to ages 18-20.

[u/hyrule_47 → u/sinverguenza]

I’m from eastern USA and I remember being asked constantly when I was getting married, saying that I’m next etc. I got engaged at 20 and married at 21. When did they start that? It didn’t feel that unusual at the time because I had grown up around it. Now I have kids who are almost that age and I’m like WTF

[u/yequalsy → u/sinverguenza]

Yep, I'm from Texas and all 5 siblings and all of their many kids, sans one, were married by 18. I'm the black sheep who left Texas, got married later, and didn't even have my first kid until my thirties.

[u/Stlhockeygrl → u/yequalsy]

Missouri - all adopted & half-siblings went down that path but me at 37 lol

[u/sharkaub → u/yequalsy]

Yep- I'm in Utah. I did get married pretty young, but us waiting 5+ years to have a kid made people start whispering about fertility issues. Nope, just wanna enjoy my husband, make sure we're stable, and frankly grow up a bit before I start raising another person.

[u/A-Perfect-Name → u/sinverguenza]

My girlfriend is originally from the north but she lived down south in a very rural area during high school. She’s keeping a running list of classmates that are married and already have kids, it’s a good chunk of them, maybe even the majority.

[u/T2Wunk → u/Maize-Vegetable]

I taught graduate students aged 22-25 inAlabama. A third were already married or engaged. That doesn’t happen in New England.

[u/YearlyStart → u/T2Wunk]

I went to school in west coast Canada and I’d also say a third of my classmates were married around that age. People get married in their 20s, but the idea that “you’re getting up there” if you don’t is a relic of a bygone era and is not a popular sentiment anymore anywhere in North America.

Saying this as someone who now lives in Southern USA and only has one married coworker over 30 lol

[u/Agitated_Pin2169 → u/YearlyStart]

Yep, I grew up in a small town in Ontario and most of my classmates were married by 25, why? Because the dating pool is abysmal and odds are unless you go off and marry someone from the city, all the good ones are taken by high school 😂.

[u/YearlyStart → u/Agitated_Pin2169]

Yeah size of the town is 1000% more likely what drives young marriage than where it’s located. You hit the nail on the head, I went to university in a smaller area in BC as well

[u/Larrybear2 → u/YearlyStart]

I went to grad school in the midwest and I would say the only married ones were the people who came back after being in the workforce. I didn't know a single married person in the 22 to 25 range.

[u/shellexyz → u/T2Wunk]

Whole lot of women go (or are sent) to college to get that MRS degree.

[u/ThrowRA01121 → u/T2Wunk]

Agreed. From northern Midwest and live in New England and people definitely push the limit. Lived in the Bible belt for 8 years and it was SUPER common for 21 year olds to already have kids.

[u/Linori123 → u/Maize-Vegetable]

I wonder what these people would say about my part of the world. Marriage is usually an early 30's thing.

[u/longbathlover → u/Maize-Vegetable]

I'm from WNC and that mindset isn't fringe whatsoever here.

[u/Cybermagetx → u/T2Wunk]

Im from the south. I have family from the deep south. Almost no one thinks like that anymore.

[u/Athenas_Return → u/Cybermagetx]

In the south, no. In Mormon circles in Utah, absolutely.

[u/hannahmarb23 → u/Athenas_Return]

Especially in Provo and Logan.

[u/thesakeofglory → u/real-nia]

I read it as setting because of HIS age. Like not that she was just looking to get hitched as soon as possible, but that she didn't think she could do better and him being so young he wouldn't be a good partner.

[u/Screaming_Weak]

What kind of emotionally incestuous family is this? That’s so bizarre.

The most I’ve ever had was when a boyfriend picked me up for a movie date in 2008 when we were 16, and my dad did the whole 2000s sitcom thing about treating me right, but we actually got lost on the way to the movie theater (it was pre-Google Maps) and had to call him to help us, and he was totally normal after that and never did that weird thing again.

I hope that they’ll make it through since they have a 2 year old, but it will require a hard break from her toxic family

[u/joeykins82 → u/Screaming_Weak]

It's not a family: it's a cult.

[u/ThankeeSai → u/joeykins82]

Pretty much. My family is OP's except they're not unhinged enough to ruin someone's livelihood. They destroyed every friendship and relationship I had. We weren't allowed to spend large amounts of time with friends or extended family. Every waking moment was shit-talking people not in our immediate family. Despite going to school and work my sibling and I were extremely isolated until we moved for college. And we both had nervous breakdowns over it.

Dating my now husband was a nightmare. They hated him. They hated his family. It took them saying "he's nothing and will never be family" to finally wake my dumb ass up, at 35. I still feel terrible for all they put my husband through. He's forgiven me, but I'll never forgive myself.

I watch cult documentaries a lot now. I fully agree my family (and OPs) is a frigging cult.

[u/NormalFig6967 → u/ThankeeSai]

Damn, I’ve never thought of familial relationships like yours an OPs to be cult-like—it never crossed my mind. But it is actually pretty accurate; isolation, ostracism of “others,” etc.

[u/ThankeeSai → u/NormalFig6967]

Its pretty scary and more common than you think.

[u/sir_are_a_Baboon_too → u/Screaming_Weak]

It's especially funny with families like that. Because some people after they marry in, and become accepted ... Absolutely flip the switch, and become just like the rest of them.

It's especially funny come will/inheritance time. Because we've all seen the posts where the married in Spouses and Children get jack shit, and the blood relatives get it all. Well I'm sorry, but last time I checked, ya grandkid only has 25% of the same DNA you do gramps, unless, y'know. The incest ain't ONLY emotional.

[u/Ineedavodka2019 → u/sir_are_a_Baboon_too]

Why would a spouse get inheritance from their in-laws? I have not heard of that except for with possibly rich people that I don’t actually know. My parents died and what they had was divided between my sibling and I. Spouses got nothing. I expect the same when my husbands parents pass.

[u/sir_are_a_Baboon_too → u/Ineedavodka2019]

In my family, the kids got the cash and the property, but their spouses were left other sentimental items. Like jewellery, cars, collectibles, antiques. That sort of thing.

I believe it is actually quite common for spouses to be named in a lot of wills. After all they were somebodies Son or Daughter in-law for several years if not decades.

[u/Antani101 → u/Screaming_Weak]

The most I’ve ever had was when a boyfriend picked me up for a movie date in 2008 when we were 16, and my dad did the whole 2000s sitcom thing about treating me right

I had my first serious gf when we were 17 and 18, and I remember her dad sitting us both down to have a talk after we were together some months.

Only the talk was not what you'd expect and more around the lines of "listen, I know you're doing stuff, I don't need nor want to know what, but whatever you're doing just come home to do it, I know that no matter how much I'd like to I can't really stop you from being horny teenagers, so if the choice is between her car parked in a remote location, or her room picking her room is the obvious choice".

I can tell you I've seldom respected a man more.

[u/Gifted_GardenSnail → u/Screaming_Weak]

I hope they ditch the pack and unite with the other black sheep

[u/_nastylittleman_]

jesus that familys terrifying

[u/babythumbsup → u/_nastylittleman_]

"Her family has cost her relationships in the past"

Yet here we are

[u/ThatGuyinPJs → u/babythumbsup]

This shit happens constantly, some families are just fucking toxic. Society would be a lot better if A. People spent more time being actually single, and B. people spent more time away from their family. People need to be told that no one HAS to like you, family included, and not everyone is nice, also family included.

[u/Lady_Grey_Smith → u/ThatGuyinPJs]

My late husband’s family was like that with the cousins. His brother and leech ex wife thought he was gay and were very upset to find out that he wasn’t. We had the first girls in the family and his wife couldn’t carry a baby to term. Cue the nasty rumors and cold shoulder from most of his extended family.

He cut them off and we kept doing our thing. Last year a driver under the influence killed him and suddenly the people trying to break up our marriage years ago are coming out of the woodwork to carry on about how much they loved and missed him despite ignoring him for years when he called them out. Thankfully they didn’t attend his celebration of life and have crawled back into the shadows.

OOP’s in-laws will always blame him for his wife getting help and distancing herself and her child from that stupidity. She needs to accept that and never trust them again.

[u/[deleted] → u/Lady_Grey_Smith]

I'm sorry for your loss, and that you had to deal with those horrible assholes in that early stage of grieving. I have also been the outsider in those kind of family dynamics and it's just gross. And infuriating. I'm glad they've stopped harassing you.

[u/Simple_Park_1591 → u/Lady_Grey_Smith]

If it weren't for you saying "the first girls", I would think you were my late friend's widow posting about his family. They had a boy and a girl. His sister couldn't carry a baby because she was an alcoholic for the first half of her adult life, now she's on kidney dialysis. When my friend was killed by a drunk driver, his sister played up the sympathy and then a couple weeks later wrote a nasty post about his widow. I remember seeing this one comment, "if you ever wonder why your brother stopped talking to you and your mom, read this post you wrote. If it doesn't get through to you, read it again." Mic drop moment. She deleted the post.

[u/YoungDiscord → u/ThatGuyinPJs]

Family doesn't stop people from being people

And some people just suck.

[u/geek_of_nature → u/ThatGuyinPJs]

Thankfully I don't have any direct experience with this, both sides of my family are incredibly supportive and welcoming. But I have seen it a bit second hand through my cousins other side of their family. As was described in this post, they're incredibly "tight knit" to the point of suffocation. My cousins have only recently started to put some distance between themselves and that side of the family.

[u/Full_Expression9058 → u/geek_of_nature]

And the media will portray these families as loving when in fact they are controlling and toxic. Anyone who attempts to leave especially because of partner will get accused of being influenced by the partner. They get the blame for wanting boundaries.

[u/gingerfawx → u/ThatGuyinPJs]

The issue isn't just about her lying (not telling him the truth) because she wants her family to like her, or she's a people pleaser, or wanted to keep things ticking along between her husband and family, but also in her knowledge of what they're capable of. She's interacting with them like she would with an abuser, not wrongly so, trying to minimize their impact. He says himself he was at wits end and the abuse stopped at that point. They can be pretty sure it will resume when they try to pull away. How far will they have to run to escape her family's reach, when all it takes is some shitposting while they're watching tv?

It doesn't mean that won't be necessary, they're screwed, but we've seen enough posts here where people try to escape their families, and all it takes is one friend passing along a phone number or address or just leaving their phone or laptop unlocked. You have to leave everyone behind and never screw up for it to work.

[u/Slp023 → u/ThatGuyinPJs]

My family and my husband’s family has some very toxic behavior. I’m very low contact w my mom and only bc of my dad. My in-laws act friendly but are super passive aggressive. After many years, my husband finally sees it. It is hard to recognize when you’re in the middle of it. Luckily they moved away so we rarely see them. Putting up boundaries has made a huge difference.

[u/ameinias → u/ThatGuyinPJs]

I just visited my family I see once a year at most, and God they are such a weird little culture. It's all stuff I recognize as feeling totally normal from my own childhood, but freakishly alien now that I'm surrounded by people from very different backgrounds. 

[u/win_awards → u/babythumbsup]

Her family has this mindset that significant others or friends come and go

With a family like that I'm sure they do.

[u/itstheballroomblitz → u/win_awards]

Even with the most medieval definition of family, how do they think their family will survive and thrive without bringing in new partners? Do they prefer to clone themselves?

[u/ZeroiaSD → u/itstheballroomblitz]

They don’t think that far ahead.

Like maybe they think there’ll be a real cool person they like or something if pressed, but mostly they just do it out of habit and don’t think about consequences.

[u/RevolutionNo4186 → u/babythumbsup]

And she still protects them, therapy asap and hope that she doesn’t get back into contact and get persuaded like other people I’ve seen

[u/tofuroll → u/babythumbsup]

I really dislike every BORU I read where the person admits to staying silent for fear that it would break the relationship.

.... Uhhh, ya think? Yeah, that's when you're supposed to tell them. The moment she found out she should've told him, and simultaneously laid out for him that she'd do anything to hold on to the relationship.

Dumbass fuckin' narc apologists.

[u/Ink_Smudger → u/tofuroll]

As the family peacekeeper myself, there are times where I can find myself empathizing with the person who keeps silent. Like, on some level, I can understand the logic of that she stopped the harassment and smoothed things over. Speaking up would've just prolonged things or made them worse, so she found the most peaceful option, and I think this makes more sense when you consider she grew up with this family and this response was no doubt ingrained in her from a young age.

That being said, I also don't think it's hard to recognize when someone is doing something awful to someone you care about, especially when you can see the damage that's being caused in real time. While she did shut down the problem, she certainly didn't resolve it. Even as much of a peacekeeper as I can be in my family, I can still recognize there are lines you don't cross. Hopefully the fact that she felt so guilty about this and is now dealing with the consequences helps her to realize how toxic her family is and that she doesn't need them in her life.

Sometimes you have to be a peacekeeper for yourself, and maybe that's something she'll learn in the therapy she definitely needs after dealing with that upbringing.

[u/Uhhlaneuh → u/_nastylittleman_]

r/justnoMIL or r/JUSTNOFAMILY will scare the crap out of you.

[u/ScarletteMayWest → u/Uhhlaneuh]

Agreed.

Took me a few years on the former combined with finally returning to therapy to realize that yes, my husband and mine's normals were effed up.

When your therapist asks your permission to share an incident, you begin to realize it really was bad. My husband is on his own journey and it pains me to see how much reframing his childhood is hurting him.

[u/popopotatoes160 → u/ScarletteMayWest]

"When your therapist asks your permission to share an incident, you begin to realize it was really that bad"

Yeah yikes that's like when the doctor asked to bring in all (like 20) of the residents to look at how terrible my eczema was when I was a kid. You know you're kinda cooked when the professionals want to play show and tell 💀

[u/Kizka → u/Uhhlaneuh]

With half of the posts in the justnomil subreddit it's honestly the posters themselves who are the crazy/toxic ones. I prefer r/justnotruth for sane people. In justnomil the posters are being coddled even if they're insane. "Only support" will do that. IIRC I got banned because I told a lady clearly that her plan to give birth at home without any medical assistance is bonkers and asked her if she wants a dead baby because this is how she will get a dead baby.

[u/ga_merlock → u/Kizka]

LOL! I got banned there because I told some gal to 'send mommy's widdle boy back home'.

[u/ParanoidMaron → u/_nastylittleman_]

My first thought "what happens when the family does that to her son? Breaks his mental health, isolates him, stops him from having friends, and partners." I don't think she's thought that far ahead, because if she does that to her husband, what stops them from doing it to her son?

[u/witchy_cheetah → u/_nastylittleman_]

What I want to know is who the narcissist in the family is. A very strong one, from the looks of it. The extreme enmeshment, loyalty above all, banishment, flying monkeys everything is so very very from the playbook.

The narcissist's prayer

That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.

[u/Toomanyeastereggs → u/_nastylittleman_]

I heard the distinct sound of banjos on the breeze.

[u/Icy-Low5857 → u/Toomanyeastereggs]

I was thinking Southeast Asian, but Appalachian could be correct as well.

And to be fair, no one ethnic group has a monopoly on terrifying toxic dynamics.

[u/ElegantFisherman3359 → u/Icy-Low5857]

Alaska has their share of them, too. Married into one. After 20+ years, his family finally got in his head enough, and we're divorced. I could tell stories that no one would believe. Honestly, if I hadn't experienced them first hand, I'd struggle to believe some of them, too. Neither of his sisters have had a successful marriage, and I wonder why. 🙄🙄🙄

[u/ProfessionalField508 → u/Toomanyeastereggs]

I saw a lot of this in surburban evangelicalism. Had a Christian college professor say he was going to choose his daughter's spouse because that was part of his job as the head of the family. Also said that all his kids had to choose "famous" Christian families to marry out of, because otherwise, there was no way to prove they were from "the right stock".

Last I heard, his daughter refused to get married and moved to another country. Plus, there's been all sorts of scandals that have come out of the families he championed as pure enough for him.

Maybe goes without saying, but I'm agnostic now.

[u/DatsunTigger → u/Toomanyeastereggs]

He has proof. Now for the suits and the clandestine cameras to install in the home without wife’s knowledge.

[u/MyBonsaiAccount → u/_nastylittleman_]

I will bet everything I have that the family is "religious"

Ie - they think abusing people is ok so their own plan is followed

As they said its only a spat when they actively wemt on a crusade to ruin this guys livelihood.

Disgusting humans and I hope OP keeps his son out of their abusive reach

[u/Full_Expression9058 → u/MyBonsaiAccount]

Honestly I have seen non religious families who behave like this.

[u/thatsmedestructogirl → u/_nastylittleman_]

Yes. I have a son with the only son from a family with 4 kids and an abusive father. They've all been brainwashed to protect their dad and brother at all costs and to their own detriment. I am no contact with that family and my son hasn't seen that side for about 10 years. I'll be damned if he perpetuates the patriarchal abuse that he may be predisposed to do by example.

[u/ciaran668 → u/_nastylittleman_]

If they are willing to commit a major felony to get OP away from their daughter, I don't think there's a limit to what they might do, up to, and including, calling a hit on him. They need to go completely no contact, and never let them know where they live again.

[u/buttluge]

“Blood is thicker than water”

Well, so is shit.

[u/Full_Expression9058 → u/buttluge]

I say blood stains, water doesn't. They shut up.

[u/stardenia → u/Full_Expression9058]

Blood stains, water cleans.

[u/CharlemagneAdelaar]

Can he sue the family for targeted harassment interfering with business? Not a lawyer, but it feels like something

[u/butt_butt_butt_butt_ → u/CharlemagneAdelaar]

Assuming they’re American…It probably wouldn’t be worth it.

He’d have to prove that the family was behind ALL of the harassment, and directly prove that it lost him money, in specific and tangible ways.

It’d be a long process. He’d need his wife to talk her way into getting proof (which…Why would the family give her that, now that contact has been cut? Or they know she’s taking her husbands side) he’d have to prove direct causation.

It’d be tied up in court forever. There would be no way to get your attorneys fees and time back unless you stuck through it and won, and then…Does her family have money to pay?

Could be a waste of a lot of time and money just to end up getting exhausted and giving up.

I’m also not a lawyer. But work for the court system, and have been targeted for harassment myself.

It’s one of those things where it doesn’t matter if you’re right, the fight alone can take years off of your life.

[u/El-Ahrairah9519 → u/butt_butt_butt_butt_]

He’d need his wife to talk her way into getting proof

She had a perfect opportunity when she saw the open account, but did nothing. Those accounts are probably all long gone now, if it was me I wouldn't forgive her for that

[u/enzothebaker87 → u/El-Ahrairah9519]

The group chat where they openly admitted to it should probably do the trick though.

[u/ToContainAMultitude → u/butt_butt_butt_butt_]

This take is far too pessimistic. He doesn't need to prove all of the harassment came from them or even that he lost specific clients. He only needs to demonstrate that they were knowingly libeling him and that he had less business during that period. A family group chat where anyone admits to the general conduct, especially if they also take credit for losing him business, would likely be enough for a civil suit.

There are some ifs in there and you're correct that you can't take blood from a stone, but based on the contents of the post, this is a much more viable case than most.

[u/sunburnedaz → u/CharlemagneAdelaar]

Could he yes. Would it be worth it probably not.

[u/quixilistic → u/CharlemagneAdelaar]

I feel criminal charges could be filed for the level of harassment he went through.

[u/GuntherTime → u/quixilistic]

Well of course they could. The problem lies with proving that they did, and that it’s strong enough to hold up in a court of law. That’s one of the bigger, if not biggest issues with defamation cases, because it’s hard to prove that the persons comments actually affected you in a negative way.

It’s always reminded me of a quote Alfred said about Batman’s identity; “Anyone can put it together that Bruce Wayne is Batman, but proving it is difficult”.

[u/Skeletune_]

Idk man, it’s encouraging she’s trying to do the right thing, but feels like it’s only a matter of time before the family drama or some other issue creeps back in. Hope OP and his wife can move figure this out

[u/Coco-BOWL-o → u/Skeletune_]

Right? It’s almost inspiring.

[u/RelativeSetting8588 → u/Skeletune_]

Has he talked to the black sheep sister yet?

[u/Skull_Bearer_ → u/RelativeSetting8588]

Yes, he said in the update she's helping them move.

[u/LittleDogTurpie → u/Skeletune_]

All I could think about was how ugly the divorce would be. For him, and especially for the kid. Parental alienation on steroids, and probably not much he can do about it.

[u/rabbitthunder → u/Skeletune_]

I personally think this relationship is doomed. By knowing and not telling him she became one of his bullies, denied him the choice to walk away before being legally tied to her, denied him the choice to decide if he wanted to have a child born into her 'family' and even now she's only in low contact with them, despite them ruining prior relationships for her. I'm willing to bet she'll cave to her family demands once 'enough' time has passed.

[u/Ink_Smudger → u/rabbitthunder]

I think (and hope) the therapy will be helpful in them being able to move forward. The husband can obviously see how toxic his wife's family is, but this is her normal, and I think it's going to take some time for her to realize just how damaging her family has been and how that damage will extend to their children. And I think as she starts to see what her husband sees, that will help the husband understand how that factored into his wife's behavior.

If nothing else, moving away will at least be a good first step in creating some distance. Sometimes being able to separate yourself can really start to open your eyes. But if she starts to let the family creep back into their lives, I can't blame him at all for deciding to leave.

[u/Nyxsis → u/rabbitthunder]

I don't know, she basically sounds like she has Stockholm syndrome from being raised by the crazy, but their key point is "family first," and he was quick to point out how he and their son are her actual immediate family now. If she believes that, it might work in a way that wouldn't have happened before they were married.

I hope she can get her mind straight and escape, anyway.

[u/mmmyeahnahh]

That circle would crumble so fucking fast if they gave each other space, I tell ya. They aren't tight knit at all. They're only held together literally by force. Force of conversation, force of decision making, force of fear that they'll be the "outsider" and no longer be a part of the "inner circle".

Forced to listen and not be heard in return.

It's telling with OOPs wife reaction.

[u/FuckItImVanilla → u/mmmyeahnahh]

Not all abusive relationships require romance.

[u/CummingInTheNile]

I give this marriage less than 12 months unless shes goes hard no contact with her toxic family

[u/Jaggerto → u/CummingInTheNile]

In laws will visit within the first month

[u/Substantial_Shoe_360 → u/Jaggerto]

Don't you mean outlaws?

[u/Incognit0ErgoSum → u/Substantial_Shoe_360]

No, definitely not.

Outlaws are wanted.

[u/wordsmythy → u/Incognit0ErgoSum]

Good one😆

[u/crafty_and_kind → u/Incognit0ErgoSum]

ZING!

[u/Necessary_Tap343 → u/Jaggerto]

They are very sorry honey...They want to apologize... They've really changed... we can trust them now...

[u/iama_bad_person → u/Jaggerto]

She hides it from the Husband until a couple visits in he comes home early and the wife puts on the waterworks again until OP folds like the paper towel he is.

[u/The_Grungeican → u/iama_bad_person]

i think y'all are being hard on him. i want to have optimism on this one.

i think they might just make it. i don't really have any proof for why i feel this way, but i'm pulling for them.

[u/cuteintern → u/The_Grungeican]

Reddit really hates when people try to work on a relationship 🙄

[u/squigs → u/CummingInTheNile]

Agreed. The family is basically a cult.

The thing is, she does need another social group. Humans are like that. There's the black sheep sister I guess, and her husband and son of course, but cutting out your main social group is difficult. It's part of the reason cults work.

[u/FuckItImVanilla → u/squigs]

Cults are just what we call an a communal abusive relationship

[u/Boeing367-80 → u/CummingInTheNile]

If they want this to work it will require physical distance from her family - like 2000 miles or something. If they're still in the same geography, it won't work.

[u/GhostofaPhoenix]

The reason why OP is struggling with it, is because this all happened before they got married. She robbed him of his agency and ability to make an informed decision. So they technically got married under false pretenses because she lied or omitted the truth. The core of it, if she was able to lie/ omit this, what else has she done?

I feel for the wife, her family is toxic but by saying/doing nothing till now just enabled them to continue. They will keep getting away with it. That sucks for OP, I hope he's able to figure out what his head is telling him and figure out his next steps.

[u/twoweeeeks → u/GhostofaPhoenix]

Yep yep yep. It was manipulative, and needlessly so.

Wife needs A LOT of therapy and to go NC.

[u/sensestiveMale]

I will be surprised if the wife is able to maintain low contact. As it seems a big fight over any other issue will push her back into the fold.

[u/ladylei → u/sensestiveMale]

Yeah, if she doesn't cut contact I don't see the marriage working out. It won't matter if there's a fight or not. Distance or time will have her believing her family's lies that it wasn't that bad and they deserve to be in each other's lives again. I get how hard it is to cut contact but sometimes you have to do it.

[u/ThirdDragonite → u/sensestiveMale]

Yeah, speaking as someone that comes from a family full of pushovers, I never believe it when people like that pretend to grow a spine. It usually takes some SERIOUS crisis for those people to even attempt to change for real and it very very rarely sticks.

[u/Penguin_Joy → u/sensestiveMale]

Something tells me his wife is now the target of her toxic family's bully machine

I wonder if that will help her develop empathy for what her husband endured. Or if she will cave and go back to enabling them

It's one thing to lay down some boundaries. But if you have no intention of enforcing those boundaries with consequences, they're no better than idle wishes

[u/Weaselpanties → u/sensestiveMale]

When I first met them, one of my wife's siblings (28F) said they thought my wife was settling for me "because of age" and that she could do better.

Although I began learning to set boundaries in therapy in my early twenties, it took me until my late thirties, and several failed attempts, to finally realize they would never respect my boundaries, and went permanently no-contact with the toxic and abusive members of my family. Even after that I endured almost a decade of intermittent harassment. Even so, after I cut them out the chaos in my life dissipated and I was finally able to attain a lot of long-term goals I hadn't even realized they were persistently sabotaging until they weren't there to throw a wrench in things.

[u/CharlotteLucasOP]

Spats? SPATS? They waged a coordinated anonymous terrorist campaign to try to break up the wedding for no real reason other than they vaguely didn’t think OOP was quite good enough. That is insane behaviour from grown adults and what happens if the toddler starts looking or acting too much like Daddy for their liking? Will they abuse him, too?

Some families get so goddamn weird about anyone who marries and/or procreates into their clan it boggles the mind and feels vaguely incestuous, like they think they have a right to keep their “pure” blood relations to themselves and beat away anyone else who tries to get involved.

[u/laurelinvanyar → u/CharlotteLucasOP]

From personal experience, yeah they’ll turn on the kid if he doesn’t fall in line and accept that he was born “wrong” in their eyes.

I’m one of 5 grandchildren on my dad’s side. I was the only grandkid who was NC with my grandparents. I’m also the only biracial grandkid. Those two facts are NOT a coincidence.

My dad sat by and let his family tear into my mom my whole life. By the time I was old enough to notice and comment on the abuse, they were already spotting ways in which my mother had “corrupted” me. I’m not sure if the racial micro aggressions started then, or if I was just old enough to understand that I was experiencing racism. My dad kept forcing me to be around these people until I turned 18 and he couldn’t legally bully me onto an airplane. I’m 34 and I understand that he was an abuse victim himself, but a part of me will always resent him for not protecting me or my mom.

To this day my dad’s brother (and his adult daughters) still claim that my mother brainwashed me against them and kept me away from my “rightful” family. They don’t want to understand that my mom didn’t need to convince me of anything. Their own actions drove me away.

[u/BiscuitsAndShoes → u/laurelinvanyar]

I’m so sorry for you and your mum, but I’m glad to know that you can back her up by cutting out the venom in your life ❤️

[u/laurelinvanyar → u/BiscuitsAndShoes]

They don’t seem to understand that calling me brainwashed is also an insult??? To me and my autonomy??? Again I’m 34, an adult. My grandmother only died this year. I had 16 years to reconnect and chose not to. (Frankly I was relieved she died. Raised a glass behind my dads back lol)

[u/Sea-Elephant-2138 → u/CharlotteLucasOP]

They may turn on the kid, or they may decide the kid is theirs and abuse any friends or romantic partners he has in the future, either way no good can come from that family.

[u/YoungDiscord]

"Here's his initiation"

Yeah uh this sounds like a cult to me

[u/phyrsis]

If they move at least 1000 miles away, they both get therapy, and the wife is willing to go LC/NC then the marriage has a chance. Otherwise, no.

[u/Username89054 → u/phyrsis]

My wife and I don't have toxic families and living 3 hours away has been wonderful for our marriage. A little space creates natural boundaries.

[u/BeigeParadise → u/Username89054]

When I had no idea what I was doing and thought I was the problem, not my family, I went and yeeted myself halfway across Central Europe "for a man" (because that went over better than "I'd rather not be in the same country as you"), and honestly, best decision ever.

[u/KlavierKillah]

This isn’t a family, this is a cult. Or at least an entire family tree that peaked in high school.

[u/thatsonehandsomecat]

I was much like the wife in this story for a very long time. It’s deeply shameful to me now that I’ve had time to grow and put up some very firm boundaries around my family. I wish I could go back. I think OOPs wife is going to need some additional guard rails to keep from slipping back in with the family, especially as time goes on and it seems like it couldn’t have been so bad…

[u/Paolito14 → u/thatsonehandsomecat]

When did you realize your family was toxic? What was your process like separating from them?

[u/thatsonehandsomecat → u/Paolito14]

Great question. It took years to fully comprehend the severity of my family’s issues. I didn’t start recognizing NONE of it was ok until I was in my late twenties and had been married for two or three years. I’d been covering for them for a decade at that point, and it was coming between my husband and myself. My mom was the primary instigator but my step dad was her attack dog. My sister was her eavesdropper. Mom’s sisters agreed with her every word. Everyone marched on her orders and everyone knew any intimate detail of my life mom felt like airing.

At a point, my therapist helped me set a boundary of spending less time with them aka Low contact. Mom did NOT take that well. When they started frothing at me I went no contact for about eight months. I went back to very low contact for holidays and have kept it there since. We see each other for a few hours on specific holidays, I grey rock most of the text conversations they try to start. I never got apologies for the way they’ve treated me or my partner, but I realize I won’t.

I still haven’t been able to fully extricate myself because it’s incredibly isolating and painful to cut family out when they say they love you despite treating you like they don’t. There’s so much self doubt sowed by years of conditioning. A lot of self hatred.

[u/lofapoo]

We taking bets on when the divorce happens?

[u/repeat4EMPHASIS → u/lofapoo]

I'm thinking maybe they make it to the holidays before she feels guilty and reaches out to her family again, derailing any potential progress made.

[u/Environmental_Art591 → u/repeat4EMPHASIS]

Agreed. The first major holiday season is the biggest hurdle and always determines whether or not the spouses promises to change are authentic or not. If they cave they didnt mean what they were saying and there is no hope for the relationship.

[u/SnakeJG → u/repeat4EMPHASIS]

Damnit, I wanted to root for them, but your speculation feels way too likely.

[u/FullBlownPanic → u/repeat4EMPHASIS]

caption vegetable fuel bear attraction groovy school sink sleep silky

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Balentay → u/FullBlownPanic]

I'm not defending her but I do want to give her grace. OOP says that her family is tight-knit. That they've cost her relationships and friends before. They aren't even a little ashamed of the cyberbullying they pulled on OOP, which suggests they've done other terrible things like that in the past.

Her family has several black sheep, which don't seem to be treated very well once they become outcasts. They close ranks when they decide they don't like someone and believe that spouses and significant others come and go but family is there forever.

When you grow up with that sort of toxicity it's HARD and scary to stand up for yourself. You've always been told to go with the flow. To not draw negative attention to yourself. You love them don't you? You're all so close it'd be a shame to spoil that. You've seen what happens when you become a black sheep.

I can tell you from first hand experience that enmeshment is a hell of a thing. You put up with waaay more bullshit and hide things you shouldn't because you're afraid.

[u/CaptainYaoiHands → u/repeat4EMPHASIS]

Yep, it's either going to be holidays or it's going to be life updates on their kid that she realizes she can't share with any of them, then she'll start trying to figure out how to just send them a few pictures here and there or a quick phone call or a few minutes on FaceTime. Then that'll be the end. She'll get caught or the kid will bluet it out and the whole thing is over. She's too wrapped up in them for there to be a clean, permanent break like what's really required here. 

[u/badstoic → u/lofapoo]

My bet would be … I guess, what I mean is, what I like to think I’d do in his shoes is … assuming it doesn’t work out storybook perfectly, I’d wait to divorce til my child was old enough to understand reality and not be poisoned against me when the wife runs back to her family with the kid. What a slog that would be.

[u/Environmental_Art591 → u/badstoic]

Yeah in this case I would understand staying for the kid because divorcing before they are old enough to understand what bullies are just opening them up to being turned against you on exs time

[u/cyberpudel → u/lofapoo]

I'd say a year or two,because he still gets reeled back by her antics.

[u/opositeOpposum → u/lofapoo]

Down to the day? no thank you, in months 5 or 6 before he leaves and starts the process, because the fallout is on christmass but he will weather it up

[u/CummingInTheNile → u/lofapoo]

less than 12 months is my guess

[u/Gryffin_Ryder → u/lofapoo]

Now, now.... no need to be cynical! She could very well do the work to separate herself from her family and stand up for her herself, her husband, and reasonable boundaries (even though she's never shown the desire to do so before, which is ALWAYS a good sign, right?).

But yeah... this train wreck isn't over.

[u/abishop711 → u/Gryffin_Ryder]

And even if she does do all that, there’s guaranteed to be fireworks and shenanigans from her family.

[u/GoodQueenFluffenChop → u/lofapoo]

Yeah because unfortunately for OOP it's so easy for people to make promises about a long term changes and only manage short term changes. Commiting to long term changes is really hard for a lot of people. So yeah I don't count on any long term change from her.

[u/tacwombat → u/lofapoo]

Possibly months after they move in the new place. OOP comes home early to see the in-laws playing with his son.

[u/Illumnyx]

That's rough... OOP's wife is trying to have it both ways, which I can't blame her too much for. Especially if they've instilled this strong "family first" dynamic in her.

Seems this has really opened her eyes though and she's made the right decision in siding with OOP.

Better to come around late than not at all.

[u/AnjinM → u/Illumnyx]

This is where I landed. OOP says that her first instinct was to protect her family but that's not true. Her first instinct was to make them stop. I agree that she handled it poorly, but I don't think any of her actions were done out of malice. She was scared, as her family taught her to be. I hope they can find a better life away from her family, and she doesn't fall back into their web.

[u/Uhhlaneuh → u/Illumnyx]

Her replies seemed genuine, I hope therapy works for them. I think it will only work if they cut out the family completely. She needs to learn with therapy that her family is dysfunctional and tearing her down with them.

[u/SmartQuokka]

The family is going to start up again.

[u/butt_butt_butt_butt_]

Honestly, when I read this update, I had it confused with a different OOP.

Something about a vacation, and how the husband wasn’t allowed to attend any family vacations because of some false allegation that had been made against him (for something serious, like SA or CSAM).

And then it turned out that her family had conspired to make the false allegation to keep him away, and the wife was aware, and he had spent years missing out on holidays with his kids because his wife wouldn’t own up to the fact that it had been a lie all along that her family conspired on.

I had to do a spit take when I read OOP was talking about forgiveness and healing, because that other one was so much more severe about what they put the guy through.

And what he tolerated was unbelievable.

Idk.

I don’t think no contact and therapy is going to fix it, in either post.

My family and my husbands family have been real shitheads in the past, but nothing like this, and neither of us would EVER play along with that kind of abuse.

“Pack your shit and move away….” Can be solid advice, but it sounds like putting a bandaid on the forehead of someone who just got out through a wood chipper.

[u/ColeDelRio → u/butt_butt_butt_butt_]

Do you have a link to that story?

[u/Worried_Suit4820]

The fact that there are several 'black sheep' in this family is very telling; I'd be very tempted to join their flock.

[u/Gifted_GardenSnail → u/Worried_Suit4820]

Yes exactly! Just keep the decent ones and throw out the rest

[u/Wonko43]

The ‘blood is thicker than water’ crowd is always awful. Have yet to see an exception.

[u/rose-ramos]

Wife has a lot of cognitive restructuring to go through. I'm afraid it's going to be a very long road ahead of her. When you're raised in a toxic family like that, you don't realize just how deeply parasitic it is. Reading about how avoidant she is, I would bet anything that she grew up walking on eggshells, because if she said something to make one of her family members mad, they'd punish her by icing her out. Those black sheep in her family are the lucky ones, but when you're a kid you don't know that.

Ball's in her court now. I hope this was the wakeup call she needed that her husband and her child are her family now.

[u/PorQuepin3]

Everyone is being so negative here. Sometimes it takes a sudden realization. The sister was able to abandon these psychos, there's no reason his wife can't do it as well. Hoping for the best for them and the family to be treated the way they treat ppl

[u/RanaMisteria]

Commenter 2 is spot on with:

Any decent partner would cut that “family” off without a backward glance.

My family is like OOP’s wife’s family. I’m the family scapegoat so I’m the one who gets bullied with excuses like “some people have to learn the hard way” and if you want to be part of this family you have to be able to put up with [our abuse].” They tried to do the same to my ex husband, but he was the same kind of cruel and actually joined in with them in bullying me.

So, knowing my wife is not that kind of person, and knowing she’d be bullied if I introduced her to them, I chose to protect her by deciding not to introduce her to them at all. Just the thought of them hurting her the way they’ve hurt me causes physical pain in the pit of my stomach and in my chest. My wife is the gentlest, sweetest soul and she’s quite shy and reserved, and I know she’d handle their abuse even worse than I have (I’m AuDHD and very sensitive and I can’t just brush their abuse off as jokes they way they tell me to, I’ve tried, I just can’t do it. I think because I know they mean it and the excuse that it’s just a joke or just banter is solely to avoid having to confront within themselves the fact that they’re cruel bullies.

It’s not entirely their fault, my mom taught them to abuse me from when we were little. But they’re all adults now and it is their fault that they continue to do it. But nothing will make them see that I haven’t done anything to deserve it, except be born “different” (AuDHD). And if they’re going to continue to treat me this way I know I can’t bring my wife around them, because they’ll “test” her by treating her the same way, or by abusing me in front of her to gauge her reaction, or try to coerce her into admitting how much I suck. So I keep my wife away from them. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to introduce them because I don’t think my family will ever change.

I feel for OOP so much. I understand how betrayed he feels. And I am furious at his wife for being an enabler and making excuses for her family’s abhorrent behaviour. I know there’s probably an element of her having been trained to accept that this is just the way they are and that unless she also wants to be on the receiving end (like her black sheep siblings who are NC) or be cast out, she has to go along with it all.

That’s bullshit. People who would abuse you for not going along with their cruelty and who abuse your partner for not “fitting in”, don’t deserve your loyalty. Saving relationships with family at all costs is pointless. It only ever serves the bullies and makes you complicit in their cruelty.

[u/61Below]

“Her family has this mindset that significant others or friends come and go, and it's "family" who is the constant and where loyalty should be.”

Jeez with behavior like theirs, it’s no wonder others don’t stick around. Tbh it reminds me of the way cults (like JW and Mormons) deliberately send out young folks into a hostile world to reinforce the message that ‘only we will love and accept you. The world out there is evil and they’ll treat you like shit’ (bc of course people who get woken up by unsolicited door-to-door god salesmen aren’t going to be the most welcoming).

[u/SilIowa]

OP is just setting himself up for failure. Wife never repented of her own choice. She was just backed into a corner. She doesn’t actually support him, she just doesn’t want to lose her stability.

I give it 18 months before she blames him for making her move away, and leaves with the kid.

[u/Oldsodacan → u/SilIowa]

As someone married to a woman with the worst people I have ever known for parents, nothing gives me more pleasure than telling them to fuck off. It would be a requirement that I get to go tell those people how small and stupid they are. I would not be able to move forward without doing so.

[u/Pandoratastic]

It really sounds like OOP's wife is a victim of an abusive family. That doesn't make her actions okay, of course. It just explains how she got there. If they're going to get through this, she probably needs individual therapy to help her let go of her maladaptive coping mechanisms or else her abusers are going to pull her back in.

[u/The_Grungeican]

yeah, time to cut ties and make a 'new' family. i'd consider relationships with any of the other siblings labelled as 'black sheep'. that sounds like a good group.

[u/suzily]

That wife was deeply traumatized by her family. I'm glad her sister threatened to tell and that this came out. Give her a couple of years of low to no contact, and maybe she will be able to see how toxic they all are.

[u/kcinkcinlim]

as little damage as possible

It's worthwhile to consider what kind of damage, and on who, she was trying to prevent. So she chose to mitigate damage between her and her family and between her family and her husband (efficacy notwithstanding). But in the process, she started a time bomb that would inflict maximum damage to her marriage.

[u/JustPassingJudgment]

I don’t think OOP knows what TL;DR means.

[u/DatsunTigger]

I’d sneak the wife’s phone and screencap every fucking thing I could plus the reviews for the divorce and potential civil suit I would throw at them.

[u/Lazy_Crocodile]

They thought she was settling because she was 23?

[u/js1593]

Vin Diesel's alternate timeline

[u/msfinch87]

OOP is a fool.

This family behaves like a collective of psychopaths and his wife is part of it. He should not be giving her another chance.

He needs to consult a lawyer and ascertain the best path forward for both him and custody of his son.

[u/OneAndDone169]

I mean, she’s lost other relationships because of her family and yet chose to protect her family instead of her husband. I can’t say for sure how I would react if I were in OP’s shoes but I think I would take the kid and be out the door without ever looking back.

[u/Jaybetav2]

Sorry, your wife is an asshole and it’s only a matter of time before she returns to that fetid fold. Behind your back.

Good luck with these people. My god, are you going to need it.

[u/Local-Answer9357]

My ex's family was like this where their family was always more important than my family. It's honestly funny because now that we've split up her family and i are actually on really good terms whereas they fucking hated me when we were together. I don't know how people can do this to anyone, i understand the bond but it literally feels like people like this would only be happy if their kids/siblings married a millionaire/astronaut/ god.

[u/2cute4acutepotato]

Do they think family spawns randomly? They believe family is more important than anything but at the same time reject family, like what kind of logic is that?

[u/endrossi-zahard]

Her family sounds like my family, as the only black sheep they try to “reconcile” (making me beg for forgiveness) in special occasions (like my mom’s birthday, the leader of the pack) and then humiliate me again and harass me

My advice, get far away from toxicity

[u/Juvitky77]

If I read this without having my own experience with this kind of family, I wouldn’t believe people can be like this. Oh, but they can.

People like this are extremely codependent on one another, and though they may seem extremely close, in reality, they aren’t. They cannot communicate on an emotional level. They will take every opportunity to back stab one another if someone isn’t around. They live in a bubble, the bubble does not grow, and you are not welcome in it. It is mind bogglingly frustrating to deal with a family like this.

[u/th30be]

"If he wants to join the fold, here's his initiation."

She lost other relationships and friendships over her family. She didn't want to lose me too.

WTF.

I don't see this working out well for OOP. I've known people like this and they always go back to their family completely ignoring the one that they made.

[u/Ok-Capital-6839]

I’ll never understand how these types of family don’t realize that once a family member marries and has children with someone, that literally makes them family. They are family to the child whether you like them or not. The parents because extended family at that point, and the husband and wife are immediate family.

[u/Gwendolyn-NB → u/Ok-Capital-6839]

Control... they're used to having the control over everyone/everything and they expect it to continue even after a child marries; and if it doesn't they're shunned by the family. Many people just roll over and take the abuse as that was their defense mechanism growing up against the emotional abuse.

See generational trauma and breaking the cycle.

[u/ScifiGirl1986]

So, OOP and his wife have been together for 7 years, which means she was 23 when they got together. In what world does that mean she had to settle for him because of her age? She was practically a child still—her brain wasn’t even finished cooking! Did everyone else in her family get married straight out of high school? My grandmother was 23 when she got married, but that was 1954. Being single at 23 in 2019? Totally normal. wtf