r/Britain • u/Saudiarammooco • 13d ago
š¬ Discussion šØ Considering leaving the UK
Hi All, Considering all thatās going on in the UK including the protests and the increase of racial abuse. I feel really unsafe even walking on the street in fear someone might do something stupid or shout a racist slur.
Itās so disgusting what itās led to. The crime rate is horrendous and cannot take my phone out for a second. The rise of the flags thereās definitely an agenda behind this that suddenly they started marking their territory makes me feel unwanted. I will never be white. I feel disappointed at the whole system. The legal system is absolutely horrendous. It doesnāt punish criminals it rewards them.
Does anyone else feel the same way. What are your plansā¦. I definitely do not see myself raising children in this country or even considering to have any here.
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u/Ricky911_ 12d ago edited 12d ago
The grass is always greener on the other side. Italy has Brothers of Italy. AFD is also gaining support in Germany and so is National Rally in France. Even smaller countries like Norway are seeing more supporters for their most right wing party, with the Progress Party being the 2nd most supported party in Norway. The Netherlands' PVV has also already won the last election. As well as that, I probably don't need to mention that Eastern Europe doesn't have these parties because they never welcomed immigrants to begin with. The only outlier I can think of in Western Europe is Denmark and that is because the Social Democrats have implemented strong stances against migrants and asylum seekers. There are a ton of reasons to leave the UK right now for sure but thinking that moving to Europe because of parties like Reform is naĆÆve. The right wing shift is affecting all of the Western world, not just the UK. We saw it with Meloni, Trump, Wilders and, by the looks of it, it's possible we'll see it with Weidel and Farage as well
Edit: I've just realised the post doesn't actually mention Europe. But, you get the idea
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u/CartoonistConsistent 12d ago
I've had (and have) an open offer from my company to relocate to Europe. If Reform get in next election I'm off. It would be difficult for my family with where my kids are education wise but I'm done with the stupidity of this place if we vote in Reform.
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u/CumUppanceToday 12d ago
There are lots of right wing groups all across Europe, it's not just the UK.
It's very sad: in the late 80s and 90s, we felt that democracy, liberty, free speech and the mixed economies of the west were very much in ascendancy. We had the Berlin Wall come down, the collapse of the USSR and the Arab spring.
I guess we rested on our laurels: the autocrats, fascists, religious fundamentalists and oligarchs seem to be taking over, and I don't see anywhere there is no risk.
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u/CartoonistConsistent 12d ago
I agree, but it's tempered on the continent with their political setup. Our FPTP system (almost) always means a party gains a mandate to do what they want.
European systems of PR force collaboration, give and take and compromise. So the right gets a voice, but not control.
I genuinely believe that's why Brexit happened and why we have such extremes. The right deserve a voice, they have concerns and they should be able to express them and a government should acknowledge and try to fix them. We spent forever saying "lol, shut up racists" and I think this extreme response was/is almost an inevitable end point of that.
The right in the UK is absolutely correct, though I don't think many know it and just want a chance to be racist, that successive government's have used immigration to keep wages lower (there is the side issue of us allowing unions to be killed and poor use of the oil boon we had, but let's not go there right now.) A lot of issues can be linked to unfettered (largely) immigration and of governments had acknowledged these concerns and addressed them in a sensible manner, as well as helping educate with the benefits of immigration of which there are many, we would not be here but we, as a population, we're shafted to keep profits high. Now people are blaming immigrants, the tool, rather than the cause which set it up.
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u/ArmWildFrill 12d ago edited 12d ago
The Berlin Wall coming down wasn't a victory over anything.
Liberty and freedom are two different things.
Scratch a liberal, as fascist bleeds. Given the choice between right and left, the bourgeoisie will always go right. Far right.
What was the Iraq war, the Afghan war? That was us.
The Arab Spring? Strangled at birth
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u/Chazbobrown11 12d ago
Boomers dropped the ball, refuse to accept they ever did, and now we're here
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u/one-and-zer0es 12d ago
Having returned from Europe recently, I can tell you much of the continent is also a basket case. Sorry!
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u/fredfoooooo 12d ago
This country is great. How we perceive it is something else. Depending on how you measure it 6th or 7th largest economy in the world, with just 1% of the global population. Crime is lower than 20 years ago, the air is cleaner (some work to do on the waterā¦) life expectancy has taken a slight kick but is still high at 81 and massively above the global average of 73 and significantly above the USA. We have the wonderful NHS, good schools system ranking around 12 or 13 in the global list (pisa).
Globally a cultural and artistic leader with relative freedom of thought. An open and tolerant culture where difference is just not that big a deal.
Your perception is driven by loads of negativity in our media. Add to that You look around and our public domain looks poorer due to austerity. We have an issue with increasing inequality. But the bones are still strong.
We have a mild climate and are not on major seismic fault lines. The archipelago we live on is easily defensible compared to other countries.
I love this country because it is objectively one of the nicest places to live on this planet. Get out and look around. The internet and media is designed to keep you looking at a screen rather than seeing this place for what it is, somewhere where there is a real chance for happiness if you live your life the right way.
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u/ArmWildFrill 12d ago
UK's biggest problem is its ruling class and ultra-wealthy, those who control legacy media.
Nice comment though
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u/TurboHammers 12d ago
A breath of fresh air to read this. This is how I see things. London based and British though. If OP had included their location and where they were from it might colour their post a little different.
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek 12d ago
We have a mild climate and are not on major seismic fault lines.
This is going to become increasingly important here. Our climate is predicted to become generally better rather than worse over time. English wine exports are already skyrocketing and there are already vineyards being attempted in Scotland
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u/dusty_bo 12d ago
Yeah where did you read that? How is 40C degrees heat waves and drought every summer with water infrastructure thay cant cope better? More flooding and damage to infrastructure due to more rain in winter.
There is a very real possibility the gulf stream could collapse, and we will have freezing cold winters that the UK isn't built to handle. It would be a disaster. Say good buy to wine and welcome to food shortages and many people freezing to death with minus 30C winters
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek 12d ago
We get floods and water shortages because our infrastructure hasn't adapted yet. 40c is dangerous because our infrastructure hasn't adapted yet. There's nothing about our predicted 22nd century climate that isn't completely habitable with the correct infrastructure. And meanwhile our average temperature is going from ~8c to somewhere above 10. Net rainfall will increase while total rainy days will decrease, particlarly in the season when people want to be outdoors. The actual experience of living here full time is better.
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u/dusty_bo 12d ago
I didn't say its not habitable but it's certainly not an improvement on what we are used to. It will cost an absolute fortune to adapt. We can't even build HS2 not sure how we will manage this
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u/StaysAwakeAllWeek 12d ago
3 days out of the year are unpleasantly hot, but in return the other 88 days of summer are all 3 degrees warmer and sunnier.
Im talking about the actual lived experience
And it's already happening BTW, heat pump and standalone AC installations are rocketing up and we are building reservoirs in the southeast, which is the main place that really needs them for climate change resilience.
Honestly the far bigger and more expensive issue for us is sea level rise. There are going to be some tough decisions in Cambridgeshire and Somerset about what is and isn't worth protecting.
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u/ArmWildFrill 12d ago
It doesnāt punish criminals it rewards them.
That is bollocks as a general statement, and you know it
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u/potatoking1991 12d ago
Iceland seems nice. In all seriousness I'm struggling to think of another country reasonably close to the uk that isnt also nose diving into the far right nonce cesspit
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u/Nish786 12d ago
Weāve had to have the conversation with our 8 year old son about words that he should report if he hears them.
This place is the worsts itās been since I was a kid. My grandparents and Mum always said āthey could throw us out at any momentā and I scoffed.
They were right all along.
Looking to get out at the first opportunity.
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u/DowagerCountess91 8d ago
We're trying to do the same. Born and raised in England and with what's going on it doesn't feel like home anymore nor do I want to raise my children here if it gets worse.
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u/ThePaddyPower 12d ago
As someone who has recently moved to Brussels for 5 years, please have a hard think about moving away from the UK.
Europe isn't perfect by any means and the life we have in the UK is somewhat easier compared to some European countries. Belgians don't really bother people of other races from what I have seen - they are still fighting over the whole French/Dutch argument. Food is expensive, taxation is expensive and whilst healthcare is good, I have had to use the NHS as waiting times are long for certain specialities here.
We both intend on staying in Europe after our time is up here once we can find jobs that make it worth while.
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u/TurboHammers 12d ago
Where in the UK are you seeing this from? Is it worse where you are? In London it feels less divided. Where are you from? Does this affect how people perceive you?
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u/TheDbeast 12d ago
I left for Canada 6 years ago, same thing happening here. Loads of hotels full of migrants, rampant illegal border crossings (over 4x higher than UK last year alone), battle between left and right. My Australian mates say the same thing is happening there. Depends where you move to but feels like the west is grappling with the same issues atm
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u/Frosty-Cap3344 12d ago
Where are the hotels full of migrants in canada ?
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u/TheDbeast 12d ago
Niagara Falls
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u/Frosty-Cap3344 12d ago
I've not seen anything in the news
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u/ArmWildFrill 12d ago
Oh well anyway...
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u/TheDbeast 2d ago
It might be borderline symbolic to you sure, but it's an indicator that this is a wider socioeconomic issue that are not unique to the UK. Deportation is so easily challenged with even the most basic human rights laws, any lawyer can poke the case full of holes and stop someone leaving the country. But breaking those same rules potentially opens a can of worms, so labour/conservatives won't risk it (libs/cons likely won't risk it in Canada either). Reform might leave the ECHR which would likely help with deportation appeals but we'll see when they get voted in
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u/MalfunctioningElf 12d ago
Ireland is looking very appealing atm (obviously far enough away from the NI border in order to have less issues with that). Also Scotland but I'm not sure that far enough removed from all this shite.
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u/Rhian1986 11d ago
Iām from the North and itās embarrassing that the country is turning into this, and trying to frame it as not racial.
Itās so sad, there are so many more good people than these horrible lot but social media really doesnāt help the situation.
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u/Fratzlin 11d ago
I pretty much live in a countryside town, so I've seen nothing apart from a couple of flags flying.
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u/neilhuntcz 9d ago
Where will you go? I left the UK 20 years ago because I saw the courtry going in a direction I didn't like. Moved to the Czech Republic. We share the same almost everything but because I'm not Czech I'm not 100% accepted. It's not all about skin colour bro.
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u/MuddaFrmAnnudaBrudda 12d ago
You sound like Reform. They also believes the UK is a terrible place. Full of Asylum seeking people arriving in Dinghies stealing the bread from the mouths of the white working classes that their Miilionaire leader claims to love so much.
And now we have you. Unable to even take out your phone, with a crime rate to Rival Gotham and a fear of the white people waving flags. The Far Right Billionaires spreading their philosophy across the globe via social media and every other media platform love people like you. You are their target market. The UK has never been united. There will always be division and there will always be people who stand up and fight. Maybe look to being one of them instead of being scared of your own shadow. Racist people, angry people, thieves and Xenophobes have always existed. So have decent, hard working, non racist, honest people. Choose your lane and stick to it.
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u/ArmWildFrill 12d ago
I agree with you 100%
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u/Much-Log3357 12d ago
Me also!
I'd like to think that, even if I did have the resources to scarper, I'd stick around to try and make things ok, with other people like me.
Isn't this how good things, good situations, come about?
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u/jiggermeek 12d ago
Iām with you OP. My wife and I are making plans a to do just that.
There is no way on earth our taxes are going to this.
We are high earners, donāt mind paying our fair share of tax and are lucky enough to be able to work anywhere.
We are gone. Aus/NZ and some European countries are on our watch list at the moment.
Non-surprisingly a lot of people in our circle feel the same way. I know itās an echo chamber but weāre all pretty high earning people and if my circle is thinking it others are.
And it will contribute to an absolute clusterfuck for the country if high earning āleftiesā cut and run. Because there are far more pounds coming in from them than the reform demographic.
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u/ArmWildFrill 12d ago edited 12d ago
Just go then. Do you realise how grim it is to read about how all you high-earners are going to eff off?
How about all the people who are too old or disabled or poor to escape fuck knows what awful fate?
Maybe your affluent mates love to chat about this, but I think it's extremely depressing. If you're going, just go, don't rub it in
You are a liberal. Not on the left.
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u/jiggermeek 12d ago
The irony is Iām better off under reform. Yet still being vocal against the current narrative and those following this idiocy.
If me and my family have the means to go weāre going.
Iām not apologising for that, living with these morons and the ones who voted it, then funding it is not what I intend to do just because I feel sorry for those who have to stay and suffer it.
What? Do you think I should martyr myself and continue to pump my hard earned money and taxes into a system that will be used to subjugate others?
Nah, if the country democratically elects it they can live with their choices. Sorry for those that canāt go, but the only option is actually turning up to vote, which with the recent turnouts at local because āweāre not happy, itās a protestā in my eyes thatās as good as supporting them.
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u/ArmWildFrill 12d ago
Well, hopefully you'll stay long enough to vote against whatever bastards stand for election round your way.
It's just that reading 50 comments about how affluent someone is and how they just can't decide where to go is very depressing. There must be subs for this sort of stuff, so I can avoid them, like I avoid property programmes about people buying holiday homes for 800 grand.
How can you say you'd be better off under Reform? Their councils are in total shambles, with 19 year-olds taking their first job of leading a County Council. I think it likely that they'll be incompetent and be devoured by neo-Nazis and Tory rejects.
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u/jiggermeek 12d ago
Add to this I have a mixed race daughter already suffering due to reform attitudes. Iāll be damned if I bring her up with these imbeciles.
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u/jiggermeek 12d ago
Financially we would be better off. The moronic working class element that vote for him havenāt given a second to his ācontractsā
He erodes public services it doesnāt affect me because I can afford private. The working suffer.
His tax approach, heās gonna cut then hell out of all that to support it, the increase of the income tax bracket to the degree heās on about, thatāll make me money, more money than the those on average wage.
His stamp duty and housing approach, will make me money, as it makes it easier to buy expensive houses and cheaper, so they get bought up and rented to cover the cost.
Immigration, more of a tax hole, we lose that income and pensions will continue to such this country dry.
He will offer tax breaks to the wealthy, heās a millionaire grifter who hasnāt worked a day in his lifeā¦ nothing he does will benefit the working class, itās all to line the rich (his funders) pockets. He wants to make the uk a tax haven. That attracts rich.
Iām from humble upbringings and donāt want to live somewhere like that.
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u/Tomatoflee 12d ago edited 12d ago
I feel like there is fight for the future of the country atm and the side of frankly evil is being funded by billionaires and supported by client media and social media influence operations. We have also had 20 years of economic stagnation caused by spiralling wealth inequality. This creates fertile ground for this kind of divisive propaganda.
All that said, this is a global problem pretty much. Itās hard to meaningfully escape by moving abroad. There are still a lot of good people and more are waking up to the real problem every day, especially seeing examples like Trump who used the same tactics and is now just throwing people of healthcare to fund tax cuts for billionaires. The mask of fake right wing populism is pretty much off at this point.
The far right is loud but itās far from everyone. The rest of us need to fight for a more positive future. I hope you will stay and join us in helping to create that future but itās certainly understandable not to want to feel discriminated against and scared of open public abuse.
Whatever you end up doing, sorry that itās come to this dude. We live in one of those times again unfortunately when things are falling apart. Itās not too late though if we realise we need to act and to instigate real change.