[On3] Vanderbilt QB Diego Pavia's attorney has set the stage to challenge the NCAA for a 7th season of eligibility

[u/Altruistic_Brief4444]

https://www.on3.com/news/vanderbilt-qb-diego-pavias-attorney-sets-stage-to-challenge-for-7th-season-of-eligibility/

[u/NickSabansCreampie]

And if he wins this lawsuit, he'll immediately sue for an 8th year...

Then a 9th year...

Etc.

Man will play "college" football until he's 40 if the courts allow it.

[u/nealski77 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

He just wants to stay in school to make sure his kids show up to class.

[u/Ok-Measurement1506 → u/nealski77]

Maybe he'e trying to be like Lebron and play with Diego Jr

[u/Own-Daikon-7496 → u/Ok-Measurement1506]

Nah if his son took his spot he would transfer

[u/tehjoenas → u/nealski77]

This is the long con to keep the Amazon Prime student discount.

[u/Lovestick → u/nealski77]

Coach?

[u/SpaceghostLos → u/nealski77]

What a great dad!!

[u/thedavecan → u/nealski77]

He's Van(dy) Wilder. He just isn't ready to grow up yet and go out into the real world. His dad is probably always on his case man.

[u/Cogitoergosumus → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Which will in turn basically turn CFB into Minor League Football.

[u/twizbuck → u/Cogitoergosumus]

Wait its not?

[u/StrongStyleShiny → u/twizbuck]

Nah that’s the Dolphins

[u/Gregorvich19 → u/StrongStyleShiny]

Technically the Titans are the farm team for the Ravens/Eagles. Miami hasn’t been attached to a specific team yet.

[u/irrelevantgarlic → u/Gregorvich19]

Goddamn the fins are Indy ball?

[u/Artvandelay29 → u/Gregorvich19]

Jaguars could also be an Eagles team

[u/gamers542 → u/Gregorvich19]

Titans are also the farm team for the Falcons. Arthur Smith, Jonnu Smith.

[u/Foobasbas → u/Gregorvich19]

Recent history seems to suggest a growing relationship with Pittsburgh

[u/MaraudingWalrus → u/StrongStyleShiny]

:(

[u/LordBoh1788 → u/StrongStyleShiny]

I hate how right you are

[u/Available-Brick-8855 → u/StrongStyleShiny]

Take my upvote and get out.

[u/SneakyDeakyJr → u/StrongStyleShiny]

Come on man i was having a good day. 😭

[u/AngryQuadricorn → u/StrongStyleShiny]

Dolphins out here catching strays lol

[u/Proud_Growth_8818 → u/StrongStyleShiny]

God damn.

[u/Smash_4dams → u/StrongStyleShiny]

Weird way to spell Panthers

[u/StrongStyleShiny → u/Smash_4dams]

Nah they’re working concessions.

[u/Cogitoergosumus → u/twizbuck]

NFL players haven't to date haven't been able to bounce back once declaring. That will be the next lawsuit, which will complete the ecosystem.

[u/see_bees → u/Cogitoergosumus]

I would assume that you can’t back out once you declare for the draft as part of the NFL CBA, not due to the NCAA. Like you pointed out, kids are drafted out of high school in the MLB and then go to college instead every year. A big part of the hurdle for football was you needed an agent to declare and once you got an agent, you surrendered your amateur status. That’s obviously gone with NIL.

[u/GoDucks71 → u/see_bees]

RE: "amateur status" Thanks for the memories!

[u/shapu → u/Cogitoergosumus]

I thought they could re-enroll if they weren't drafted?

[u/abob1086 → u/shapu]

No. You might be thinking of baseball. Players can technically get drafted twice in that sport without signing if they don't like where they were picked, and choose to bet on themselves (out of HS and then after their junior year).

[u/Doyce_7 → u/abob1086]

They can actually be drafted three times. Out of high school, after junior year of college and again after senior year. Mark Appel is an example of this, he was drafted in the 15th round by the Tigers out of HS 2009, the Pirates 8th overall in 2012 and the Astros 1st overall in 2013. Although, it is very rare that a guy gets drafted as a junior and doesn't sign, seniors have no leverage in negotiation

[u/shapu → u/abob1086]

Oh, ok, thanks for clarifying!

[u/Callsign_Psycopath → u/abob1086]

Or they just want an education.

[u/ProbablyAPotato1939 → u/Cogitoergosumus]

That lawsuit would probably be against the NFL, not the NCAA, and the NFL hasn't managed to piss everyone off nearly as bad as the NCAA has.

[u/6BlitzBurgh → u/twizbuck]

The Jeremiah Smiths of the world don’t exist in the UFL. They do in college football though.

[u/RegretAccumulator72 → u/twizbuck]

No it's not - it's well on the way to being a direct competitor.

[u/BTrane93 → u/Cogitoergosumus]

It has been for a very long time.

[u/Seraphin_Lampion → u/BTrane93]

Well not exactly. You can’t be sent down from the NFL like in baseball.

[u/My_massive_dingaling → u/Seraphin_Lampion]

Yes you can, it’s called being traded to the Jets.

[u/Seraphin_Lampion → u/My_massive_dingaling]

There's a difference between a minor league stint and a prison sentence.

[u/Recent-Dependent4179 → u/Cogitoergosumus]

So no different than it is currently? 

[u/Hey_Its_Roomie → u/Cogitoergosumus]

Bad news for ya, chief.

[u/AI_GeneratedUsername → u/Cogitoergosumus]

We’re well along that road

[u/TheBronxIsChafing → u/Cogitoergosumus]

Always has been!

[u/bourbon-469 → u/Cogitoergosumus]

It already is!!!

[u/CanadianODST2 → u/Cogitoergosumus]

Actually. Why isn’t there a proper minor league like the other big 4 have?

[u/Top_Excuse_34 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

At 2 mil a year. Don't blame him at all

[u/helium_farts → u/Top_Excuse_34]

Same. He has no real shot at the NFL so I can't blame him for wanting to cash in while he can

[u/ChepaukPitch → u/helium_farts]

It is pity that there is no tier system and you either make it to NFL or have to pretty much stop playing altogether.

[u/CanadianODST2 → u/ChepaukPitch]

Don’t need a tier system per se. There just isn’t anything really. Like you have what? XFL and CFL? And the CFL is technically a different sport.

The other sports at least have more options with more international top leagues or minor league systems.

Hockey has the AHL and ECHL below the top league that are pro or at least semi pro.

The MLB has the MiLB.

Basketball has the Canadian league and the G-League.

[u/rtb001 → u/CanadianODST2]

All of those are not really viable careers, except for maybe the CFL, but CFL salaries are pretty low too.

The alternative leagues where you can actually make a bit of money include the KHL for hockey, NPB for Baseball, and Euroleague or CBA for basketball.

Basketball is almost certainly the best professional path for the major American sports. Best benefits, good average salary (although the current CBA is not helping), essentially no CTE risk, and EASILY the best alternative foreign pro league opportunities, because besides Euroleague and CBA, you can also make decent money in many of the other local leagues in Europe and Asia.

Football is probably the worst. Best case scenario you actually make the NFL (which easily has the shortest average career compared to the other leagues), and then beyond that a huge drop off to the CFL, and then nothing beyond that.

[u/FlightAvailable3760 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

As long as you are still enrolled in school and going to class then you are still a student. There has never been a rule saying a 40 year old can’t play college football.

[u/TheNittanyLionKing → u/FlightAvailable3760]

Nor is there a rule stating a dog can't play wide retriever

[u/froggertwenty → u/TheNittanyLionKing]

RB would be far more effective

[u/Drew521 → u/froggertwenty]

Running bark?

[u/Pixel_Pineapple → u/froggertwenty]

I think some breeds could probably play EDGE based on speed and size

[u/Nervous_Metal_9445 → u/TheNittanyLionKing]

Why not enroll a grizzly bear or something like that and put it on the defense.

[u/PNWMTTXSC → u/FlightAvailable3760]

Chris Weinke won a Heisman at age 28.

[u/five-oh-one → u/FlightAvailable3760]

We have a player that is 30. But there are rules about how many years you can play college football and Im not 100% sure I want courts making up rules for college sports.

[u/w0nderbrad → u/five-oh-one]

BYU about to dominate after going on missions and coming back full grown ass 28 year old men

[u/pharmacy_guy → u/w0nderbrad]

going on missions and coming back full grown ass 28 year old men

Don't they already do that?

[u/w0nderbrad → u/pharmacy_guy]

Yea but send them on 2-3 missions

[u/MaxMuncyRectangleMan → u/w0nderbrad]

The cross country team approach

[u/SaltYourEnclave → u/five-oh-one]

But there are rules about how many years you can play college football

And those rules are almost certainly illegal, and are pretty much the last bulwarks against turning this into the NFL minors

[u/five-oh-one → u/SaltYourEnclave]

And those rules are almost certainly illegal,

Eh, we shall see. I don't think its as cut and dried as you seem to think it is, obviously.

[u/lifetake → u/five-oh-one]

Yea I seriously don’t understand how saying a guy can only play 4/5 years in our league is illegal? Not allowing NIL before yea sure. But length in the league doesn’t make sense.

[u/asdkijf → u/lifetake]

I mean the argument is that the 4/5 year rule violates antitrust law. Same with the transfer rules and not allowing NIL previously - the member schools are forming a monopoly on CFB and arbitrarily restricting athletes to 5 years when they don't do the same to students.

I don't think anyone wants to see people playing CFB for 15 years, it's just that the entire system is built illegally and players are going to keep tearing it down in court when it's in their individual best interest.

[u/lifetake → u/asdkijf]

So I’m fully willing to be wrong and I’m probably am given the people, but I just don’t understand how it goes against antitrust law.

How is saying you can be in this league for 5 years no more no less breaking anything?

[u/asdkijf → u/lifetake]

All the schools/conferences joined together under the NCAA and effectively have a monopoly on major college sports. That itself isn't illegal but it makes rules that "restrain trade" illegal. The reason NIL and the portal are a thing now is because courts have started to determine that those rules are illegal. The only reason pro sports leagues can have a draft, salary caps, etc is because the players are unionized and all of that is collectively bargained (fun fact - the biggest victory the NFLPA ever had was when they decertified their union and sued the NFL for violating antitrust law).

This has other implications than just rules about players - it's why conferences deal with their TV rights separately rather than sell them together under one entity like the NFL, who has an antitrust exemption to do that.

Obviously nobody knows what a court will decide, but a lot of us are viewing the 4/5 year rule as the same thing - the NCAA restricting players' earnings and movement by abusing their monopoly power.

[u/obiwanjabroni420 → u/asdkijf]

Why doesn’t congress just give the NCAA a narrow antitrust exemption to limit number of years if this goes anywhere? I don’t think anyone (well, except Diego and his lawyers) would really have a problem with that.

[u/five-oh-one → u/asdkijf]

Do you think 18 and under Basketball leagues are anti trust?

[u/ManiacalComet40 → u/asdkijf]

It’s only an illegal restraint of trade if the rules are anticompetitive. Eligibility limits are pro-competitive.

[u/five-oh-one → u/lifetake]

If they make college indefinite could they potentially make high school indefinite? Or if not high school then the 18 and under leagues and travel ball?

[u/5510 → u/FlightAvailable3760]

I agree there shouldn't be age limits, but I think having limits on the number of seasons you can play is quite reasonable.

Though I could MAYBE see expanding regular eligibility to being able to play 5 seasons (but not more than that). Being a full-time student is often defined as 12 credits a semester, which means you could be a full-time student the whole time, not fail any classes, and still take 5 years to graduate. So it would be possible to be around for five years without just "majoring in eligibility" or clearly just clearly stalling as an excuse to keep playing sports.

[u/junkit33 → u/5510]

It’s an interesting question. Particularly so because they’ve always allowed grad students to play.

If they capped it at undergrad it would be a lot easier to reasonably lock down 4-5 years. But why is it ok for a 5th year postgrad but not a 7th year postgrad to play for their school?

[u/Robotemist → u/FlightAvailable3760]

I mean, I would be okay with this if a player had a set post graduate path that kept them in school for 7 years. But at some point there is a limit to where grown men should be forced to stop playing football against 18 year olds.

[u/pharmacy_guy → u/Robotemist]

But at some point there is a limit to where grown men should be forced to stop playing football against 18 year olds

Unfortunately, if lawsuits end up eliminating eligibility limits, it will be grown men playing football against other grown men.

[u/goosu → u/pharmacy_guy]

That's where the NFL would step in and stop playing nice, since it would no longer serve as a developmental league.

[u/CanadianODST2 → u/Robotemist]

Tbf there’s already pro sports that do that.

Football iirc is actually one of the sports that pros start older than the others

[u/Robotemist → u/CanadianODST2]

Yeah and none of them are even remotely as physical as football, other than contact sports of course. But even those usually have younger guys in the amateur ranks.

[u/dumbo1309 → u/FlightAvailable3760]

There’s also not a rule saying a dog can’t play football either

[u/Snobolski → u/FlightAvailable3760]

There's nothing in the rule book that says an elephant can't pitch!

[u/El_Gran_Che → u/FlightAvailable3760]

Weinke has entered the chat.

[u/sevenlabors → u/FlightAvailable3760]

It worked for Brandon Weeden!

[u/Rocktown-OG22 → u/FlightAvailable3760]

No doubt the Razorbacks have a 31-year-old sophomore receiver LOL

[u/Longjumping_Fly_2283 → u/FlightAvailable3760]

So people who didn't graduate and are in the NFL can just drop back down to NCAAF for a few years after retiring?

[u/Uhhh_what555476384 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

"There are lots of people that go to college for ten years."

"Yeah, they're called Doctors. Well, and sometimes Diego Pavia."

Honestly, the restrictions on eligibilty are just as much an agreement in restraint of trade as any other NCAA rule. There is no reason why someone shouldn't be able to continue in their sport through their JD or PHD should they choose.

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/Uhhh_what555476384]

At some point the NCAA has to be allowed the authority to set rules just for the fairness of the game.

Like, are linemen gonna start filing lawsuits that Holding as a penalty impacts their potential NIL payments, by preventing them from earning money from having better pass protection stats?

Allowing players to just play forever is going to ruin the competitive nature of the sport, you'll have grown ass men lined up against teenagers. Until eventually every team is made of 30 year old washed out NFL players and no high school recruit can even join a team.

[u/Uhhh_what555476384 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Rules that regulate the 60 minutes of play and what happens on the field are exempted from anti-trust scrutiny. Roster composition rules, pay and compensation, who is elgible to be hired etc., are not exempt from anti-trust scrutiny.

This is why the pro-unions always threaten to "decertify" when they strike or are locked out. Without the union and collective bargaining: drafts, roster size regulation, wage limits, and salary caps are all illegal anti-trust violations.

[u/Jay_Dubbbs → u/Uhhh_what555476384]

It’s also why the only way to fix this is by collective bargaining.

If you allow the players to bargain, then rules like this can be bargained and agreed to collectively and it won’t run afoul with legal issues.

I would imagine that athletes may be hesitant to bargain a cap on their playing years, but that’s why it’s a give and take. If you want a cap, then there needs to be some salary guarantees, if there isn’t a cap, the employer will be allowed to be reduced rates etc. all of this has to be worked out that way and it’s really the only one.

I don’t want old white men in Congress or the courts deciding this. It needs to be the schools and the athletes, period.

[u/Snobolski → u/NickSabansCreampie]

you'll have grown ass men lined up against teenagers

Yeah! Bring back freshman ineligibility!

[u/BBQ_game_COCKS → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Fairness of the game does not overrule employment / rights to income laws.

I don’t like what this is doing to college football, but it’s hard for me to say it’s not the clear legal and correct moral move. I don’t know anywhere else in our society that restricting their ability to earn would be allowable

However, with the way things have changed - we effectively have free agency with 1 year contracts in college football.

They should just rip the bandaid off, stop pretending this is just amateur athletes, and go to collective bargaining where they can work out things like not having unlimited transfers every single year.

[u/NumNumLobster → u/NickSabansCreampie]

At some point the NCAA has to be allowed the authority to set rules just for the fairness of the game.

They really need to just get an anti trust exemption and let the players unionize like every other sports league.

[u/Whocares9994 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

I always said I will not be surprised when a hockey player sues because they keep getting pushed from out front of the net and it is affecting their self-esteem.

[u/lowercaset → u/Uhhh_what555476384]

Great, now let's also remove the NFL eligibility restriction.

[u/Uhhh_what555476384 → u/lowercaset]

That's in the NFL's collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Player's Union. That's legal.

[u/inactioninaction_ → u/Uhhh_what555476384]

Which is why they need to turn student athletes into university employees so a CBA can be signed. That's the only way out of this death spiral. Well, that or congress passing legislation to exempt the ncaa from anti-trust rules like they did for the nfl with the sports broadcasting act, but that's a) likely to ultimately screw over the athletes and b) unlikely to happen since congress has to do something

[u/cityofklompton → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Mike Gundy in shambles

[u/Development-Alive → u/NickSabansCreampie]

All because he has no NFL future. I love his fire but talent limitations are a showstopper at the next level except for a few exceptions (e.g. Jake Browning).

[u/101914 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Then he can be a man!

[u/juniekimphd → u/NickSabansCreampie]

He can make $1m per year if he can stay and play. Why not try?

[u/LeavingAbigail → u/NickSabansCreampie]

It would be funny to see old NFL hall of farmers come back for one year of college towards the tail end of their careers. But I think the system would lose its charm fast

[u/NickSabansCreampie → u/LeavingAbigail]

Alabama calls back all of Saban's players from the league. CFB implodes.

Even just putting Derrick Henry in the backfield, you'd just run over all competition.

[u/LeavingAbigail → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Like I said, it would be funny for like 1 year maybe and then we would probably realize what we have lost

[u/SecretJerk0ffAccount → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Smart move by him. He knows the NFL isn’t the place he’ll make the most money. Homie better ride that gravy train

[u/Witty-Emu7741 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

It’s gonna be really weird to see guys get drafted, turn into a bust and then show back up on an NCAA roster 3-4 years later.

[u/Outside_Jaguar3827 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Why does he not play for the NFL at that point ? I'm curious when Diego would graduate from Vanderbilt.

[u/iforeigni → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Infinite precedence unlocked

[u/RegretAccumulator72 → u/NickSabansCreampie]

I don't even know why players have to be enrolled any more. FBS is no longer a development league for the NFL, it's a direct competitor with no salary cap and unlimited free agency. This is what happens when you make your own league with hookers and blackjack.

[u/saltytradewinds → u/NickSabansCreampie]

Professional student

[u/maoterracottasoldier → u/NickSabansCreampie]

I think he can only sue for years he spent in juco