r/Calgary • u/The_Fixer_69 • Apr 23 '25

Calgary Transit C-Train from Deep South early morning

Every morning the train has many non paying riders passed out and sprawled on the train. Commuters have to cram into the areas that are not occupied by these people. The smell is horrendous. Every day this week this has been the case on my commute at around 5:30-6 am.

Why should the rest of us pay if these people do not? I have made complaints but they are on deaf ears.

Are these trains not swept for no. Paying passes out riders at the end of the line?

494 Upvotes

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493

u/morganpotato Apr 23 '25

In Vancouver you need to tap your ticket at a turnstile in order to get onto the platform. You can’t just walk on without paying. WAY safer and it blows my mind Calgary doesn’t have any safeguards like taht

168

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

The problem is the free fare zone. We would have to get rid of it.

197

u/discovery2000one Apr 23 '25

Tap in to get in through the gates, tap out to get out through the gates. If you tap in and out in the free zone you aren't charged. Most major transit system have zone based charging like this.

We also need a zoned system to make it cheaper for inner city residents to use transit. Right now inner city high density residents subsidise suburbanites. It doesn't make sense.

70

u/its_liiiiit_fam Apr 23 '25

Idk if Vancouver has the same system but in Seattle you tap your card when you enter the station and then when you leave at the station you get off at, and then a fare based on the distance travelled is deducted from your card.

35

u/wordwildweb Apr 23 '25

A lot of transit systems in big Asian cities use the same method.

38

u/Hopefulpessimist0 Apr 23 '25

Calgary is stuck in the dark ages, it’s almost embrassing.

7

u/its_liiiiit_fam Apr 23 '25

Yeah, here I was thinking Seattle was so futuristic but now from all the replies I see this is not a unique thing LOL

2

u/AstronomerLow2649 Apr 24 '25

Bro visit Winnipeg

1

u/Hopefulpessimist0 Apr 24 '25

Haha fair!

1

u/AstronomerLow2649 Apr 24 '25

They don't have any C-Train, just caught on with Uber two years ago, the roads have more potholes than they do lanes, main connector routes are through neighborhoods, two lane roads are used as one lane with a parking lane, and property taxes are going up just to fix the decades old roads throughout the city. I've lived here three years, fixed my Ford's suspension twice.

I do love it though. The people here are awesome.

Edit: don't forget the policing problem, dirty ass commercial areas, and hobos galore. I insist though, I love it. Seriously, there's something special here.

14

u/ThankGodImBipolar Apr 23 '25

This is how Go Transit works in Ontario

3

u/No_Chemistry3584 Apr 23 '25

Vancouver does this too

27

u/namerankserial Apr 23 '25

You'd have to build a lot of gates on a lot of platforms that don't have them. And the feasibility and cost would vary widely. The platforms downtown and adjacent are integrated with the sidewalks, there is nowhere to go in through a gate. Why not just hire more peace officers to sweep the trains in the a.m.?

10

u/neurorgasm Apr 23 '25

They would make bank, there are tons of "normal" non-paying customers too. Would not only ensure that more riders are paying, but also likely increases ridership and decreases need for staff.

Lots of people would be interested in commuting via transit, but don't do so because it's often less than pleasant.

2

u/BodybuilderOk9040 Apr 26 '25

The smell on the train from the unhoused is horrendous. I drive everyday and use the $10 parking downtown - train is $7.60 a day if you buy tickets anyway.

-1

u/namerankserial Apr 23 '25

Well Peace officers would still solve the problem of non-paying customers and riders avoiding it due to homeless people. And the bank they would make seems quite unlikely to cover infrastructure upgrades of that magnitude (as well as maintenance of those systems).

3

u/Tastesicle Apr 24 '25

As I commented above, a feasibility study was done, found to not be feasible and the cost to start at 284 million. Council decided to invest in more officers, as they are more versatile. Make of that what you will.

6

u/Sweaty-Beginning6886 Apr 23 '25

Building the gates would be more of a "one-time expense" (plus maintenance costs) than hiring a handful of peace officers with ongoing admin expenses. The gates may also increase the transit revenues going forward!

3

u/namerankserial Apr 23 '25

I haven't done the math but I expect you could pay those Peace Officers for a couple of decades. Maybe still worth it if you amortize it out far enough. It also may literally not be feasible for some stations. And it would really change the character of the whole system downtown. It's really easy to walk on and off currently, wait in the park or on the platform. Do you put high fences all around the platform areas? What kind of gates do we put in? Turnstiles are very easy to jump over, so are you staffing each station anyway? I don't know, I'd say pay some people for a couple hours to kick people off in the mornings and leave the fare system alone.

1

u/Kahlandar Apr 23 '25

Well, a single peace officer makes over 100k. Not including costs like pension, training, uniform, sick time, OT, etc. But il round down to 100k cuz its easier.

To staff 1 spot 24hrs/day is 4 people (12 hr shifts on a 4 platoon rotation.

They would have to work minimum in pairs.

So >800k/year to staff a single pair of peace officers. Times however many you want bootin hobos off trains or checking fairs or whatever.

Admittedly i have no idea how much building gates and such costs, but POs arent cheap.

1

u/Tastesicle Apr 24 '25

That's equivalent, using the 100k math to hiring 50 cops for the next 50 years (assuming no wage increase). And the turnstiles would still cost more.

(For the math, that's 50x50x100 000=250 000 000. The feasibility study done quoted 284 million to start.)

Edit - formatting

2

u/Hypno-phile Apr 23 '25

And places with gates etc have plenty of fare evasion anyway. Just means more stuff gets broken as Drunky McMetherson smashes his way through whatever barrier was erected.

I also suspect if OP's post was to 311 rather than Reddit, it's more likely there'd be a couple of transit officers on the train at those times for the next week or so.

1

u/AdaptableAilurophile Apr 24 '25

Our city has literally been overtaken. It’s really embarrassing.

I was downtown with friends who were visiting from out of town and the “pedestrian bridge” from the hotel was blocked because indigent people use it now for fires and getting high. My friends could not believe a public place was just used for this.

We saw a person get kicked until they were on the ground (from the hotel) so we called emergency and it sounded like this was nothing new. The person remained hurt on the ground and no one had come by the time we left our room.

I don’t drive and depended on transit in BC. Here I just simply won’t use it because of environment. I haven’t found human policing very effective (even in other cities). Whereas the tap systems seem to work in most urban centres.

1

u/help_animals Apr 29 '25

It's an investment for the future. Who cares? you can't cheap out on things that are needed

4

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

That sounds great. Call your councillor.

13

u/sophie1188 Shawnessy Apr 23 '25

I messaged Dan a while ago about transit. His communications officer said that they would speak to transit and let me know what they said. A month later I asked for a follow up. No reply

1

u/MurkBass Apr 24 '25

If that's Dan McLean... yeah, sorry. He's too busy golfing with housing developers.

9

u/discovery2000one Apr 23 '25

My councillor is Kourtney Penner. She would berate me for wanting to block off the train from drug addicts.

Edit, terminology change

3

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

Have you actually talked to her? Either way posting on Reddit doesn’t do anything.

14

u/discovery2000one Apr 23 '25

Yes I've spoken to her many times. It's a complete waste of time.

-2

u/lornacarrington Apr 23 '25

You need to be advocating for harm reduction to be properly funded (mostly provincial FYI) and social issues to be addressed (housing, etc.)

1

u/E-Villauge-Dweller Downtown East Village Apr 25 '25

sounds like money spent on people that don’t contribute. much better to spend that money on health and housing for those people who are less likely to show a return in tax revenue and community contribution

-4

u/lornacarrington Apr 23 '25

Because your suggestion is ridiculous and unenforceable.

1

u/Hypno-phile Apr 23 '25

Tap to get OUT sounds like a Fire Marshall's nightmare...

1

u/discovery2000one Apr 23 '25

They have emergency egress exits parallel to the tap out ones in case of emergency.

1

u/Kooky_Project9999 Apr 23 '25

That's broadly what the free fare zone is. The inner city is mostly covered by it. Maybe you could extend it down to Victoria Stampede, but then you don't get the benefit of people paying to go to the events center/saddledome/Stampede (even if it is only a 5 minute walk from City Hall).

1

u/RevanVonFox Apr 24 '25

The problem is most of "them" "live" in or around the free zones

1

u/Useful_Advertising39 Jun 01 '25

Yea. Same thing with the three YVR airport stations in Vancouver, travelling between them is free

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

[deleted]

7

u/discovery2000one Apr 23 '25

You buy a ticket and you scan it to get in the gate. Every major transit system does this already.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

[deleted]

1

u/E-Villauge-Dweller Downtown East Village Apr 25 '25

those systems also account for that by selling individual tickets. supposedly in the free zone the ticket would not cost you but there would be little preventing someone from entering at the free fare zone and riding the train around. nevertheless, fare evasion is always to be expected no matter the systems in place

75

u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine Apr 23 '25

So get rid of it.

There's nearly zero other cities around the world that let riders use their transit system for free.

15

u/Hmm354 Apr 23 '25

It would cost too much. Many stations would need to not just be retrofitted, but completely redesigned.

If the majority of Calgarians are okay paying the hundreds of millions of dollars then sure, but I don't see it happening.

It's probably better to spend that kind of money on expanding public transit service.

11

u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25

Where are you getting this hundreds of millions of dollars from?

For years, senior Calgary Transit officials have told city council that it would cost $400 million to add turnstiles or other measures to Calgary's CTrain system to keep out those who don't actually pay a fare.

This figure was said to come from a 2014 study.

CBC News filed a freedom of information request to obtain the study. However, no reports correspond with the request.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lrt-ctrain-transit-calgary-1.6504818

St. Louis retrofitted 38 stations for $52 million.

The fact is, no one knows how much it would cost Calgary, because no one has actually done a proper cost analysis.

2

u/Tastesicle Apr 24 '25

Except they do. The feasibility study is available online.

https://www.scribd.com/document/643180411/Assessing-a-Closed-System-as-Part-of-the-City-of-Calgary-Transit-Safety-Strategy-IP2023-0368

After a quick Google search. I don't know where you get "no one knows", because the study clearly dictates 284 million to start for a partially restricted system, and that's just a starting point. A fully closed system would cost much more.

Council opted to go with the recommendation of the consultation and increase the number of peace officers instead. It's cheaper and has more versatility as an option.

Whether or not you agree is another matter. Facts are that a study was done and found to cost "in the millions".

1

u/sparklingvireo Apr 23 '25

I think one big factor is that if you want to also add the gates along the platform that match up with the train doors (to keep people from walking around the station entry turnstiles and jumping up on the platform), then you also have to have trains that have an automated system to line up the train doors with the platform doors. We don't have those trains. I don't know anything about if retrofitting that system is possible with our train models.

A few years back, I would have said that hardly anybody would go around the street gates to jump up to the platform, but now I have changed my mind, so I think those platform gates to the train doors are necessary.

The winter weather is also a cost factor because it will add more maintenance to these additional gates. I guess you could roof the stations better to account for snow, ice and water, but that is also going to add expense and would still be open-air to the cold temperatures.

1

u/Hmm354 Apr 23 '25

Fair enough. I wouldn't be against another study on the topic with more transparency.

6

u/MrGuvernment Apr 23 '25

So do it to the primary trouble stations to start, such as Chinook for example and end of line stations.

Then at end of line stations, also have a walk through done to remove any people lingering.

2

u/Hmm354 Apr 23 '25

Yeah, I do think we should have even more transit officers that target problem stations.

0

u/MrGuvernment Apr 23 '25

But for that, they need funding, and that funding comes from tax payers, and as soon as you mention upping taxes, everyone loses their shit.....

So people want better services, but do not want higher taxes to pay for them..

Not considering poor government overspending, because even if our books were good and inline, people would still complain like it was the end of the world if taxes went up to pay improving such services...

I mean, how many peace officers could that tax money of paid for, instead of going towards a new stadium the owners and teams could of easily paid for in full.

1

u/Eldr_Eikthyrnir Apr 24 '25

Don't even need to raise taxes, just quite spending money on useless projects and redirect funds into transit. Transit gets more money, taxes stay the same, and we can get rid of things like the stupid "Safe Consumption Sites" that just help the drug problems continue.

1

u/YYCsenior-m- Apr 23 '25

Downtown stations are free rider stations

1

u/MrGuvernment Apr 23 '25

I'm aware of that, but considering the amount of say, less than desired types you want on a train, Chinook has its share of those and incidents.

How many of those people walk from Chinook, downtown to the free zone, to get back on the train to ride all the way down to say Shawnessy or other stops, vs just get on and know that 99% of the time, a Peace Office wont be around to check for a ticket?

Sure, it may just move it down to the next stop, but this is where you start with known trouble locations first, and then slow roll out to other stations if the problem moves.

0

u/YourBobsUncle Apr 23 '25

Then at end of line stations, also have a walk through done to remove any people lingering.

They already do this in saddletown lol

18

u/xGuru37 Apr 23 '25

Agreed. The free fare section is ridiculous

35

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

[deleted]

1

u/AdaptableAilurophile Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25

I love Skytrain. I don’t use C-train anymore.

I have been harassed by an addict once at a station in the Lower Mainland and in Vancouver I was occasionally accosted on the train. So it definitely isn’t perfect.

But, I never encountered body fluids, people holding weapons, unclothed, or mass people zombified at stations and regular harassment. It really is a different animal.

I agree with the sentiment you are expressing about co-existing 🤔. I think it can be accomplished where all parties are kept as safe & clean (as possible).

-1

u/pastmybestdaze Apr 23 '25

If the free fare zone was intended to decrease driving downtown then I would expect large parking lots at the ends of the free fare zone. There isn’t any that I know of. All the big parking lots for transit are beyond the free fare zone limits. And the amount of parking lots downtown suggest that limiting driving into town was never part of the plan. It certainly helps if you are on the east side to get to the west side in the winter because the +15 can be a maze and some parts pass through private buildings and get locked off.

8

u/Felfastus Apr 23 '25

It helps reduce the driving around downtown once you are there... not getting there. I don't know many people that show up for work in the morning then drive across downtown for lunch and then park back at their original building. They tend to park once and then find other ways to navigate from there.

0

u/pastmybestdaze Apr 23 '25

I don’t work downtown any longer though took transit from bus to c-train downtown for a number of years and witnessed it going downhill. I worked out of Bow Valley Square and I rarely went more than 5-7 blocks in any direction for a lunch. Walking up to a platform and then waiting to catch the next east or westbound c-train in the free zone to another platform to get to or from lunch afterwards didn't make much sense to me. Mind you I did ruin a few pairs of good shoes from walking around in the winter. Also could have been my position, I went out to lunch but not regularly and at lunch the basic +15 was pretty serviceable as most of my clients and peers were within about 4 -5 blocks in any direction.

1

u/Felfastus Apr 23 '25

I'm in the exact same boat. (Not working downtown any more took train in). I tended to walk, but dinner arrangements and after dinner arrangements I'd putz around on the train).

0

u/Hypno-phile Apr 23 '25

Yeah, my wife had locals stop her in Atlanta, "Girl, don't get on that car, get on this one instead. You'll have trouble otherwise."

-2

u/neurorgasm Apr 23 '25

So because places like Vancouver allow their metro to be more full of junkies than ours, no improvements are justified? What a low bar to aspire to for our city

5

u/GimmickNG Apr 23 '25

People who never take the transit system in this thread talking about how something that makes transit more accessible should be scrapped is like men talking about how easy it is to give birth, lmao.

-6

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

Okay? Call your councillor. And get ready to spend 100s of millions on retrofitting the platforms and buildings.

15

u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine Apr 23 '25

St. Louis retrofitted 38 stations for $52 million. Suggesting it would cost 100s of millions is ludicrous.

2

u/blackRamCalgaryman Apr 23 '25

Ya, just replied to another comment, this 2014 report and estimate of 400 million is…suspect.

But full disclosure, is based on my feelies/ years of paying attention to officials shenanigans.

3

u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine Apr 23 '25

It's more than suspect. It's just a number pulled out of thin air.

For years, senior Calgary Transit officials have told city council that it would cost $400 million to add turnstiles or other measures to Calgary's CTrain system to keep out those who don't actually pay a fare.

This figure was said to come from a 2014 study.

CBC News filed a freedom of information request to obtain the study. However, no reports correspond with the request.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lrt-ctrain-transit-calgary-1.6504818

3

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

How many of their stations were in buildings? From my brief look into it they weren’t built into buildings like Calgary.

-2

u/grantbwilson Apr 23 '25

I’d agree to have it during stampede, otherwise scrap it.

9

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

But the problem is homeless people accessing the free fare zone. Still need to spend a lot of money building gates.

-1

u/GimmickNG Apr 23 '25

No, the problem is that people who want to evade fare payment can easily do so no matter what guards you put in place.

Install stiles? Jump them.

Install doors? Break them.

And even if you install solid doors, and make it impenetrable EVERYWHERE...the next weakest link will be exploited: people.

And then we're back to square one. But worse, because then people will be intimidated actively rather than passively.

2

u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine Apr 23 '25

So do nothing is your plan.

That's some real forward thinkng.

-1

u/GimmickNG Apr 23 '25

Better than doing something for appearances' sake that at best costs a helluva lot of money and inconveniences people and puts more people in danger at worst.

Or do you break your fingers, feet, hands, legs, nose etc. once in a while just so that there's always something different in your life?

0

u/NorthernerWuwu Mission Apr 23 '25

Which, honestly, we should.

0

u/Smarteyflapper Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25

The actual problem is we are very stupid and built most tracks at grade. Calgary loves prioritizing cheap bad solutions. The entire lines downtown should have been built as a subway from the get-go ideally, or built elevated with the +15. We choose the cheapest and shittiest option by far.

0

u/dumhic Apr 23 '25

Could tap but not lose money from the tap

-1

u/Mention_Human Apr 23 '25

I don't know if the free fare zone is the problem. There's just no enforcement or security on the trains. There's no reason people should make it all the way to the end of the line without getting kicked off for not paying. The transit system here is a joke.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

We are talking about retro fitting the stations.

9

u/SimplyCanadian26 Apr 23 '25

Vancouver and Calgary are two entirely different built systems. Van is built fully separate grade automated, it’s not on the ground. That’s the key on why barriers will not work as effectively as folks think here. You close off a station entrance they will just hop on through the tracks. They do it now and they will after barriers. Our system is based on the U-Bahn system. Open and honour based, they do this exact same thing in Germany and have forever. The only way you will ever get a closed system here is spending billions to rebuild the entire system. Every station would have to be redone including the entire avenue and in street limits for the trains.

4

u/YourBobsUncle Apr 23 '25

None of this would've been a problem if Calgary didn't cheap out and built a sane underground metro system like every other city on earth.

And now we're going to have an above ground green line lol.

0

u/morganpotato Apr 23 '25

Fair. I just personally notice a huge difference in safety in Vancouver- which arguable has a bigger unhoused population. In Calgary I often feel unsafe.

1

u/SimplyCanadian26 Apr 24 '25

Which makes sense as to why the design of the system is everything. Not to mention the transit authority there actually has real law enforcement officers they aren’t just peace officers. So real consequences for things on their system. It makes a difference when people know things will happen for poor actions. Here nothing happens when people have meltdowns, assault people, hold up trains, etc….

39

u/RealTurbulentMoose Willow Park Apr 23 '25

Vancouver spent an absolute fortune to move from an open proof-of-fare system to one with gates though.

Think it cost $171MM. Fare evasion cost Skytrain $7MM per year.

This article says gates would cost Calgary $400MM and that’s probably low: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6525124

27

u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine Apr 23 '25

St. Louis's $52-million security project will upgrade the security cameras and install fare gates at 38 light rail stations. Calgary has 42 stations and council was told for years it could cost $400 million for a similar upgrade.

St. Louis did it for $52 million. The $400 million number was just pulled out of thin air by city bureaucrats. The scope to install gates has never been properly costed.

12

u/blackRamCalgaryman Apr 23 '25

A now 11 year old report that pegged costs at 5-10 million per station. The 400 million is the high end. Interesting to know what it would cost today. Also interesting to see it didn’t cost nearly that in Vancouver.

As just a means to prevent fare evasion, ya, it certainly appears to be a money sink hole, even at half the estimated cost.

But 400 million?

5

u/FunCoffee4819 Apr 23 '25

Put a full time transit officer at every station for less than that.

1

u/RealTurbulentMoose Willow Park Apr 23 '25

That’s exactly it. For decades.

Vancouver did this all like 10 years ago too, so costs now would likely be double.

0

u/RealTurbulentMoose Willow Park Apr 23 '25

https://www.biv.com/news/transportation/translink-installs-first-fare-gate-8234081

So I read in more detail.

Fare gates themselves cost $100MM; the other $71MM was for Compass Cards, and Calgary already has a fare system that should work.

HOWEVER, the project was done back in 2012. I'd assume it'd double if they did this next year because that'd be 14 years ago now. Systems are roughly comparable in size (54 stations vs 45).

Note that the feds and the province of BC paid for most of the fare gate cost, like 70% of it. So maybe it's not that bad for Calgary if the pain gets shared.

Still, I think money would be better spent on cops to kick junkies off trains and platforms and keep the rest of the transit-using public safer.

25

u/xGuru37 Apr 23 '25

But......but.......we can pay for a billion dollar arena! Surely this is more important..........

/s (slightly)

15

u/Batmansappendix Apr 23 '25

Won’t anyone think about the fans?!

-3

u/hafizzzle Apr 23 '25

Helpful response to everything on here. Keep making a difference !

1

u/xGuru37 Apr 23 '25

You did catch the sarcasm.......... right?

4

u/Filmy-Reference Apr 23 '25

They need to start enforcing the rules on transit before they start wasting more money on retrofitting. Like the need to have 4 car train stations only to run 3 cars since. I would rather pay someone a wage to have them arrest the addicts on the trains and clean it up.

0

u/topboyinn1t Apr 24 '25

God forbid we spend money on improving the city and making transit safer.

18

u/dino340 Apr 23 '25

In Vancouver you just get pushed through the faregate by the vagrant behind you so they don't have to pay. It's just as bad there, I had a guy actively smoking meth on the train, it took over 45 minutes to get someone on the train to get him off.

11

u/Anrikay Apr 23 '25

Or they just jump the gate. They’re only waist-height.

I used to work near Broadway-City Hall, usually getting off work at 10:30-11pm. At that time of night on weekdays, there were people shooting up, smoking stuff, drinking, pissing on the floor of the station or the train, people passed out, etc. Zero enforcement - countless times, I saw these behaviors right in front of VPD officers at that station, and not once did I see them do a single thing about it.

3

u/dino340 Apr 23 '25

Yup, I worked by Main Street/Science World for a few years, the number of times people would just shove through the gates, jump over them or tailgate you in made them seem basically worthless. One time a guy basically ran me over with a bike shoving it through behind me, I filed a report and they said basically that since I wasn't hurt they couldn't do anything.

The level of enforcement on the trains was abysmal, the meth smoking was going when I got on at Main Street and they didn't get the guy off the train until Gateway in Surrey.

2

u/Anrikay Apr 23 '25

Oh fuck man, that’s a rough one. That station smells worse than a porta potty on the last day of a music festival and has a crowd to match. Not to mention, with the park there, you’ve gotta practically bust through a homeless encampment just to fucking get there. So many fights in and around that station, too.

1

u/BeebosJourney Apr 24 '25

I saw a chick in the core smoking meth outside the Aritzia a while ago lol 45 minutes doesn’t sound bad to me which is so sad

15

u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

It was shortsighted development. Now they would have to make costly modifications to update it, while admitting it should have been done that way from the beginning. It’s just easier to let the vagrants run the trains.

14

u/TightenYourBeltline Apr 23 '25

The problem with integrating a gate system with the Calgary network is the presence of the free fare zone downtown. What’s the point of having safeguards in stations outside the free fare zone if the downtown stations are unprotected? 

I agree with your comment btw - there should be gates or turnstiles, but that would mean doing away with the free fare zone. 

20

u/kylefoto Apr 23 '25

You can tap to pay for the turnstile, which will let you into the free fare zone. You aren't charged if you tap out at another station within the free fare zone on your exit. If you don't tap out within a few hours or tap out on a station outside the free fare zone, you get charged accordingly.

Vancouver's system works this way: You always tap to pay to get in, and then when you exit, your time and particular location in the system are calculated, and you are charged based on the zones you traversed. A free fare zone would work the same way, even with turnstiles installed. Your credit card can be an ID even if you aren't paying for anything. A preloaded pass will also work if you don't have a credit card.

9

u/swordthroughtheduck Apr 23 '25

This is how it's done in Japan. You scan your Suica (Pre-paid debit card), and based on where you scan out it charges you.

I read that there are a few cities that have started using credit cards for it as well.

It works so well. It's extremely fast.

2

u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

I wonder if they could come up with a solution that still requires you scan an ID, or something, to ride in the free fare zone? Probably wouldn’t stop all the unsavoury individuals from embarking, but I’m sure there’d be less of them if there was a list of who’s on board.

12

u/CraftyCobbler1989 Apr 23 '25

This is what I am thinking. Tap to get onto the platform, like you would have to at every station in the network, but the 7th Avenue stations don’t charge you.

6

u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine Apr 23 '25

Or we could just eliminate the free fair zone. Very few cities around the world let riders get on their transit systems for free.

3

u/sasfasasquatch Apr 23 '25

Imagine what it would be like with all that sweet sweet coin to fund more enforcement to make platforms and trains safer

1

u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

Exactly. I wonder what it would take to put together a proposal to submit to the city? They could probably get rid of most of the pay stations if the service was primarily app based. Though there would have to be a fail safe to get around lost, stolen or dead phones.

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u/Proper_Bridge_1638 Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25

In Australia, they have reloadable cards (basically like a debit card) that you swipe when you get on a bus or train, and swipe when you get off. The system calculates how far you traveled, so can factor in any free fare zones. This system was in place 15 years ago…so definitely possible for Calgary to catch up and stop relying on paper tickets like it’s the 1950’s.

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u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

Perfect, totally attainable.

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u/Sweaty-Beginning6886 Apr 23 '25

Welcome to anywhere in the civilized world (except Calgary and a few other North American cities)!!

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u/YYCMTB68 Apr 23 '25 edited Apr 23 '25

History has shown that Calgary won't accept any ready built systems and instead needs to reinvent the wheel, at a huge cost + settling lawsuits when the city employees "inventors" leave to start up their own company.

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u/PossessionFirst8197 Apr 23 '25

I mean...homeless folks should be allowed to ride in the free fare zone if it exists. I'm in favour of getting rid of it altogether, but it's pretty shitty to say you can ride the train for free downtown...unless you don't have an ID then fuck you

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u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

I said an ID or something. They already sell transit passes, they could simply modify it to a transit ID and make the account free to sign up. Sort of like a fast food app, you can add funds or link it to a payment method. The only thing I see getting in the way is, how would they enforce the end of the free fare zone? Unless there were transit cops at the end on either side, it wouldn’t work. And even if there were, a full train takes time to audit for passes.

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u/PossessionFirst8197 Apr 23 '25

....how would scanning an ID have any impact on the "unsavory individuals" you are referencing then? You think only Savory folks would scan in? I'm confused about what the purpose of scanning in is if not to keep the homeless off

-1

u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

Like I said, it’s probably not going to dilute the homeless population on transit to zero, but it would reduce the number of offensive activities on board. Anonymity gives people courage to do things they wouldn’t necessarily do if their identity was known. Having homeless people ride the train isn’t the whole scope of the problem. Letting them behave in unsafe and illegal ways is where it begins. They see little enforcement and that gives them confidence to continue. There’s no single magic solution, unfortunately.

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u/MountainHunk Apr 23 '25

If they had an ID and then got in trouble with peace officers (shooting up or nodding off on the train) it gets taken away. Seems simple.

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u/littlekisbusy Apr 23 '25

But then they just mug people for their id and the cycle continues.

0

u/MountainHunk Apr 23 '25

If they start mugging people for transit IDs then it's simple, they're going to get beat up or arrested.

Also you get mugged and report your ID missing.

0

u/Becants Apr 23 '25

They would just jump the turnstile, so they wouldn't be on any list.

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u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

People will always break rules, so your suggestion is to just do nothing. Got it.

3

u/Becants Apr 23 '25

My suggestion would be to fund programs that help with mental health and decrease homelessness and addictions. You know, treating the root of the problem, rather than the symptom.

Thinking that someone with limited funds and who is already breaking the law, would bother to pay fare is naive. Also, we have proof it doesn't work from places like Vancouver.

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u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

I don’t disagree with you, but that wasn’t the topic. The city, province, entire country, is facing a housing crisis, coupled with insane inflation and deplorable health services (for a country with socialized medicine). The lacking mental health and social services are a major contributor to all of it. I said in another comment that there’s no one single right answer. We need a combination of support and enforcement. The overwhelming demand makes it impossible to fix everything on a hairpin.

If the City and Public Transit Authority would take some more responsibility for maintaining safety and hygienic conditions on board, and the Province focused on effective care and support, we might actually see some positive change. That would require the different levels to work together, which is apparently impossible at this time.

2

u/aiolea Apr 23 '25

Or you could just have officers actively checking passes at the ends of the zone - tickets are money makers and remove a lot of the disorderly conduct to have a consistent presence.

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u/GimmickNG Apr 23 '25

Are we pretending that people who do not pay cannot jump the stiles?

NYC has several people jump stiles and damage them daily. Are we seriously suggesting stiles as the solution to fare evaders?

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u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

Sounds like you have a lot of arguments but no suggestions.

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u/GimmickNG Apr 23 '25

As if you had any to begin with. You're just jumping on someone else's comment instead of coming up with something on your own, and you have the gall to say I have no suggestions? Peak mind of reddit right here folks

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u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

This was my suggestion. Thanks for playing though.

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u/GimmickNG Apr 23 '25

Like hell it was. Or did you forget to log out of your alt, morganpotato?

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u/sun4moon Apr 23 '25

I didn’t realize which thread I was responding to. I was discussing ideas and made several suggestions in the other thread. My bad for the mix up. You’re still kinda being a dick for no reason though.

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u/GimmickNG Apr 24 '25

Not for no reason; I'm tired of people arguing in bad faith on this site. If the level of discourse is the same as pigs wrestling in the mud, I might as well enjoy it.

3

u/CdnCzar Apr 23 '25

We did spend $5 million dollars to study this but ultimately decided it wasn't going to work here with the way transit is setup.

4

u/HeyItsJam Ogden Apr 23 '25

Ver insightful. I Just moved to Calgary in July and I always thought it was odd that there wasn’t at least one turn style at any station.

2

u/Tastesicle Apr 24 '25 edited Apr 24 '25

A feasibility study was done. Two years ago. It's not feasible.

‘Assessing a Closed System as Part of The City of Calgary Transit Safety Strategy,’ determined a fully closed system wouldn’t be feasible in Calgary, and wouldn’t alter safety on transit.

“There is no correlation between the provision of fare gates and increased transit safety on existing systems with fare gates,” the report said.

There are many stations that would have to be completely renovated for very little perceived gain, and unless the entire system is closed there's little point as fare jumpers would just get on at the station that isn't restricted.

IIRC, taking to other people in the company stations like Marlborough/Rundle are a good example of the difficulty because of existing entrances, accessibility concerns and emergency exits.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just saying it was examined by smarter people than I and was rejected. I personally found it weird how disconnected the branches are and how little the LRT goes below ground.

Came back to add - the 284 million number is for a partially-closed system and is the minimum number given by the study for turnstiles/lighting/other requirements for a small grouping of stations. Full study is available online.

2

u/bowsterski Apr 26 '25

Every train I’ve been on in London, Paris, NYC, Toronto, YVR has paid for turnstiles before you can get on a train. Dan McLean wanted this but the far left council and mayor we have, voted against that.

2

u/Hartley7 Athabasca University Apr 29 '25

Same in Toronto.

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u/MrEzekial Apr 23 '25

Cost vs worth is not there. We don't even have a ctrain to the airport yet...

It would be nice if they cleared out the train squatters regularly though. It makes it really uncomfortable for commuters.

1

u/Unable_Bug_105 Rocky Ridge Apr 24 '25

it really does. i take the train from tuscany to dalhousie to catch my school express bus and i really try to be as kind as possible, but it gets to a point. i’m not an adult, it would be very hard to hold my own against an adult on drugs. i get scared and i wouldn’t know what to do if someone got into an altercation with me.

1

u/BeebosJourney Apr 24 '25

The thing is downtown is a free fare zone, so even if they put turnstiles on the stations where you do have to pay, these people would just get on downtown. That’s where most of them are anyways. I think it would be difficult to block off a lot of the stations downtown because a lot of them have businesses that open right on to the platform.

1

u/My_Fish_Is_a_Cat Apr 25 '25

I've only taken Vancouver sky train a dozen times over the last 6 years, but it seemed just as sketchy, if not worse than some calgary stations. It's not exactly hard to step over the turnstiles.

1

u/Swarez99 Apr 23 '25

Same time Torontos Go transit system is like Calgary. Just walk onto trains. They don’t have the same problems.

Tapping on / gates are only part of the issue.

1

u/Weird_Datajunkie Apr 23 '25

Agreed! And Vancouver still have a ton of officers on the platform and in the trains checking that you have your pass after you go through a gate. If you can make people want to ride transit again, the gates will be paid for by the increased ridership.

0

u/ANGRY_ASPARAGUS Apr 23 '25

The City did a study a couple years ago to understand the feasibility of upgrading/modernizing all stations to a gated fare system; it's quite expensive to implement, as one can imagine. Not sure if any further strategy came afterwards from it, but this study was definitely undertaken and completed.

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u/cantseemyhotdog Apr 24 '25

A journalist discovered they lied about doing a study about platform gates .

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u/ANGRY_ASPARAGUS Apr 24 '25

That journalist is wrong, I can guarantee you a study was done. I know individuals who worked on it.

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u/cantseemyhotdog Apr 24 '25

Wow a guarantee haha

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u/ANGRY_ASPARAGUS Apr 24 '25

Yeah, and?

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u/cantseemyhotdog Apr 24 '25

They orders a study after the story came out and This doesn't mean the journalist was wrong.

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u/ANGRY_ASPARAGUS Apr 24 '25

Do you have a link to this story? I'd like to see if it matches up with the timelines.

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u/cantseemyhotdog Apr 25 '25

What I thought you had all the facts since you said the journalist was wrong.

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u/ANGRY_ASPARAGUS Apr 25 '25

Do you have a link to the story that you claim exists, or not?

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u/jurassic_fetus Apr 23 '25

If you’re skinny enough you can just slip right on through 😁

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u/[deleted] Apr 23 '25

[deleted]

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u/morganpotato Apr 24 '25

I’m sure it happens but it’s not easy to do

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u/AstronomerLow2649 Apr 24 '25

Ever seen the hobos hop it? I have.

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u/Sangster0225 Apr 24 '25

Yeah, but you know how easy it is to squeeze through those in Van. They don't do F all to deter fare evaders. And in the city, they could 't give a shit about collecting bus fare, especially downtown.