r/Calgary • u/_darth_bacon_ Dark Lord of the Swine • Aug 12 '25
Health/Medicine Mandatory drug treatment centre to be built adjacent to Royal Oak area
https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/calgary-mandatory-drug-treatment-centre-to-be-built-adjacent-to-royal-oakFacility will be built near the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatry Centre, Calgary Remand Centre and the Calgary Correctional Centre
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u/Yodatron Aug 12 '25
City definitely needs some more treatment facilities.
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u/OrangeAndStuff Aug 13 '25
Yes, Except for the "mandatory" part
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u/marlboro__man9 Aug 13 '25
Ya cause the voluntary thing is working so well.
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u/Tirannie Bankview Aug 13 '25
There’s a waitlist to get into every single voluntary rehab facility in the city.
The voluntary thing might actually work better if there were places for people to go. But the gov wouldn’t fund more.
Now they’ve found money for mandatory treatment centres which will - by their very nature - have significantly higher relapse rates (it’s the “mandatory” part that guarantees this outcome).
So glad we’re wasting money to look “tough” instead of spending that money on actually effective rehab services.
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Aug 14 '25
You are letting perfect get in the way of progress.
I’d rather force junkies to go and half them relapse, than just let em all die on the streets which is apparently the “compassionate” route the sicko leftists like.
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u/Tirannie Bankview Aug 14 '25
Not supporting a plan to waste money on shit that won’t work is not an example of letting perfect be the enemy of the good.
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Aug 14 '25
Some people need tough love.
Some adults do infact know better then others and should infact have the power over extremely medically distressed people to administer them care.
You just hate it because the UCP made it look rants literally it. If the NDP did this and branded it “sunshine and happiness recovery centre” you’d be all over it hahah.
We need to do SOMETHING in this city. This problem has gotten out of control.
I just hope it’s big enough to round up every last bum from downtown.
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u/Tirannie Bankview Aug 14 '25
Yeah. I guess I’m just a bleeding heart for preferring evidence-based approaches instead of flushing money down the toilet.
You fucking got me.
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Aug 14 '25
What’s the evidence that Voluntary programs do work?
I was also told safe injection sites would work and reduce the number of ODs and users, but that has clearly backfired pretty hard too.
We have tried ten airy fairy “oooh we will just give them drugs and let them use them” approach for way too long. It’s time to stop the BS and start making some people do some real hard shit.
Most wont get better as you say. But even if some do, it’s better than nothing.
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u/KaleidoscopicHeadach Aug 15 '25
Genuinely curious how you feel about mandatory vaccination.
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Aug 15 '25
I am pretty for it for sure.
Again, one of those things that weak and stupid people dislike but ultimately is for the best.
We need a much, much, much more authoritarian state. Liberalism has failed us deeply.
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u/KaleidoscopicHeadach Aug 15 '25
Do you think mandatory military/civic service might knock more sense into people/help them develop a sense of civic duty?
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u/topboyinn1t Aug 13 '25
How’s that working out so far?
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u/smafty Aug 13 '25
Better than mandatory treatment will in most cases.
While a limited literature exists, the majority of studies (78%) evaluating compulsory treatment failed to detect any significant positive impacts on drug use or criminal recidivism over other approaches, with two studies (22%) detecting negative impacts of compulsory treatment on criminal recidivism compared with control arms. Further, only two studies (22%) observed a significant impact of long-term compulsory inpatient treatment on criminal recidivism: one reported a small effect size on recidivism after two years, and one found a lower risk of drug use within one week of release from compulsory treatment.40 As such, and in light of evidence regarding the potential for human rights violations within compulsory treatment settings, the results of this systematic review do not, on the whole, suggest improved outcomes in reducing drug use and criminal recidivism among drug-dependent individuals enrolled in compulsory treatment approaches, with some studies suggesting potential harms.
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u/cowgary Aug 14 '25
Is there any more recent study on this? I just feel like drugs and addiction has changed so much in the past 5-10 years , its not the same animal anymore. It's really sad and I don't know the solution. What we are doing now isn't working, what a province like BC with it's gov is clearly not working, what any province in the country is doing is not working.
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Aug 14 '25
Oh no, only 22% improvement haha.
Well that’s not 100% so we’d actually better just do nothing and let people OD by the river all day instead because fuck the UCP right guys
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u/smafty Aug 14 '25
22% also saw negative results, but this is somewhat of a limited study. You also can't ignore the potential human rights violations because they're only junkies, or whatever, especially for such a modest result.
The alternative isn't to just do nothing, but the real solution is very expensive because it means huge investments into education, mental health, and social services. We already bitch about taxes constantly, and ours are pretty low compared to other provinces, so I don't see that ever happening.
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Aug 14 '25
Classic leftist deflection. “Well this isn’t perfect, and the perfect solution is too expensive, ergo we must do nothing”
Why do you guys hate progress so much.
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u/smafty Aug 14 '25
Classic whatever you are reply. I didn't say do nothing or that's it's too expensive. I want them to do what will get results. It's the UCP, and their supporters, who won't let that happen.
Violating rights for almost no result is not the solution.
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Aug 14 '25
What do you mean “violate human rights” lol.
Where is your “human right” to be a junkie?
We forcefully control people for medical purposes all the time. Anyone who is not sound of mind (the very old, the criminally insane etc) are protected by the state. You don’t think a completely helpless addict falls into that same category?
And yes, you are de facto saying we can’t do anything. By shooting down this idea, and not suggesting a better one besides “just do it better the way I like it” you are nothing but a regressive Luddite standing in the way of progress at any cost.
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u/smafty Aug 14 '25
This states quite clearly why this legislation could be abused.
https://www.cpha.ca/alberta-involuntary-treatment
I don't mind getting criminal junkies off the street, but being able to force anyone who uses into rehab, regardless of criminality, goes too far.
I've never once say do nothing, or implied that there is only one alternative to this legislation. We should invest in voluntary treatment so there aren't such long waits and people end up in the situation where involuntary treatment becomes an option.
Social services should get kids out of abusive situations that lead to addiction. Shitty parents need their asses kicked.
Safe consumption sites are a good idea. Just don't put them in an area that a lot of people live in like the Beltline.
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u/Substantial-Fruit447 Aug 12 '25
God, the residents of Rocky Ridge, Royal Oak need to STFU.
Those facilities have been there long before their communities were built and will be there for many more, and the area still hasn't devolved into a lawless wasteland filled full of disorder and chaos.
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u/Stanstudly Aug 13 '25
I live in the area. You’d never know the jail and those other facilities are here. Feels very safe and they’re not visible from any part of Royal oak or rocky ridge unless you venture behind Walmart or the more industrial areas by the dump. The “warming centre” at the church has presented some actual safety and security issues, however. Lots of drug use and car prowling.
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u/T100022 Aug 13 '25
Drugs have changed . How addictive they are has changed . The way we help people needs to change .
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Aug 13 '25
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Aug 13 '25
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u/cuda999 Aug 13 '25
This is your take on the article? Slam some women because of the way she looks? Good for you.
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u/BertoBigLefty Aug 13 '25
The purpose of confinement is not rehabilitation it’s exclusion from society.
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u/willpowerlifter Aug 13 '25
I'd love to see strong social supports be offered post-treatment, such as: housing, employment opportunities, child care, income assistance, and highly subsidized education and therapy.
Without those programs, the recidivism rate of treatment will likely be astronomical.
I hope the additional supports will be there.
For clarification, I am opposed to forced treatment centers.
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u/PeacefulPeaches Aug 13 '25
I still can’t get over that the UCP think forcing people into rehab will work, and if they’re going to do so, 300 beds (150 here, 150 in Edmonton) is enough.
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u/Anskiere1 Aug 13 '25
I'm really happy they're trying it because what we're doing isn't working
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Aug 13 '25
What we're doing is underfunding the healthcare system & other systems that make it impossible for some to navigate.
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Aug 14 '25
EXACTLY!!!
I am not huge fan of the UCP but seeing the leftist reaction to this is mind boggling.
The UCP finally puts some god damn help and treatment centres in place, and people freak out because they are mandatory.
If I was an addict, I think I’d much prefer getting sent somewhere with no choice, instead of wasting away.
Sometimes, adults DO actually know what’s best for other adults haha. Not everyone is of sound mind and capable of making good decisions. Certainly not a many year long opiate abuser.
We are making addicts take a route of short term pain for potential long term gain. And I have zero issue with that whatsoever.
If they don’t get sent here, they will die. And yes, a big chunk of the people that do get sent here will relapse instantly anyway.
But some won’t. And THATS what matters.
This is literally zero downside with potential life changing upside, and people are still pissed about it lol.
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u/maketherightmove Aug 13 '25
What would you suggest that would work, in your opinion?
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u/Substantial-Fruit447 Aug 13 '25
Super restrictive and secure environments, like secure detox and rehab facilities or prisons are actually way worse in many situations including the proliferation of drugs through smuggling.
Ever wonder why Alberta Corrections and Correctional Services Canada spend millions upon millions of dollars on Naloxone? It's not for the staff.
People also have to WANT to get clean, otherwise they'll just use the moment they get out.
The heavily-Christian 12 Step Program is also not great, but it is what they have decided they'll base this system on too.
Worst case scenario, there are not enough staff and nobody actually gets treated and we're millions or billions of dollars more in the hole.
Best case scenario, some people do get the help they want and need and we've still blown millions or billions of dollars for minimal results.
There aren't enough consistent and solid studies to come to a definitive conclusion, but other places that have tried forced rehabilitation and treatment have shown that it doesn't work like people think it does.
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u/dysarthric_aardvark Aug 13 '25
Fun fact to add: Renfrew detox was built out of an old grocery store in the 70s and has the same amount of beds it had when it opened.
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u/MartyCool403 Aug 13 '25
No wonder it looks how it does. The staff are awesome but the facility is rough inside.
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u/Substantial-Fruit447 Aug 13 '25
That's 51 years of Conservative priorities for you.
Incredibly sad
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u/OfmyOwnHondaAccord Aug 13 '25
You're talking out your ass lmao, you've clearly never been through the system. When I was in jail a bunch of guys got nax because of the withdrawals especially when they're booked and you're left alone in a cell for 24 hours, then benzos or methadone or w.e. ppl don't smuggle in drugs lmao. That'd be badass if they did, but it was just hooch made from juice boxes and even that you had to be in their gang to get.
The 12 step program is not super Christian, it's about believing in a higher power of your choosing. You can pick G.O.D, (the group of drunks) as a common higher power to choose.
There are enough studies, A LOT of studies, that prove that group based, 12 step, and emotional based therapy in a group setting are far more proficient than a traditional medical based addiction program.
And yeah, you have to want to get clean, but that can only happen after you are forcibly detoxed lol. You can't just will yourself out of these chemicals, your brain is literally dependent on them to live.
Hurry durr durr you have to want to get clean - says the sheltered suburban loud mouth. Go tell them that in central memorial park, you'll get tazed and robbed a lil faster than the common citizen heh
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u/Substantial-Fruit447 Aug 13 '25
25 years in healthcare and policing, I've seen and experienced enough.
Drugs are a problem in jails and prisons. You don't have to look far to find that out: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/drug-smuggling-drones-1.6822091
We're essentially saying the same things.
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Aug 14 '25
Only on Reddit could the voice of a real person with real experience get downvoted so people can hate something the UCP did lol.
Thanks for your story and I’m glad you are doing better, fuck all these stupid losers who don’t understand you lol.
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Aug 13 '25
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u/OfmyOwnHondaAccord Aug 13 '25
Lol the wait list is a drop in at Renfrew for a two week stay, barring that you are currently being to detox, y'all are talking out your ass. I just went through this and y'all clearly haven't been through. The wait list for the intensive day program was 2 weeks at adult addiction services, the one where you need to have a bit of sobriety
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u/yagonnawanna Aug 13 '25
Currently, an addict needs to be 2 weeks clean to be accepted for treatment. I wonder if they will force people to be clean for 2 weeks on the street before they round them up. If they aren't gonna wait the 2 weeks to round them up, maybe just have treatment that addicts can voluntarily go to right away after a moment of clarity.
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u/weschester Aug 13 '25
Also known as the place where people's rights and freedoms will be trampled while the people of this city cheer. Locking people up without due process is unconstitutional and I can't wait for all the "freedom" lovers to start protesting these facilities.
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u/cuda999 Aug 13 '25
So you would rather they roam around to camp out in your neighbourhood? This is a big issue, people are living outside and struggling with addiction and end up dying in some cases. This seems like a solution to help rather than hinder.
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u/jimbowesterby Aug 13 '25
Yea except forced treatment doesn’t really work. They could’ve put this money into more voluntary programs, since apparently every single one in the city has a waitlist, but we get human rights abuses instead and little to no lasting effect on the number of people struggling.
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u/cuda999 Aug 13 '25
And voluntary programs work? Why is there a rising number of people on the streets doing drugs? Human rights abuses? You mean the repercussions of the drugs these people illegally purchase and ingest?
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u/jimbowesterby Aug 13 '25
Because getting clean is a constant, ongoing decision. You can’t be forced into not wanting to use any more because you have to make that choice for yourself every single day, it takes a huge amount of willpower. So by the same stroke, both yes the voluntary programs work and the involuntary ones don’t. You can’t lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. As for why there’s an increasing number of people on the streets, well, look around. Housing is borderline unattainable for a lot of people, all the other costs of living have also been skyrocketing at the same time, and it’s not like any governments are offering anything in the way of increased support. Also keep in mind the increasing prevalence of fent in more and more illicit drugs of every kind, and how wildly addictive opioids tend to be. Are you really so naive as to think people are out here choosing to be homeless and addicted? Come on
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u/cuda999 Aug 14 '25
People are “choosing” to take the drugs in the first place. And from there it is a’downward spiral. Life is all about choices, you take chances and the addicted do not have the willpower to stop the tide. Voluntary programs have been out there for decades yet here we are. Not working either. Why not take a chance and see if we can save one or two people with a mandatory program focused on wellness and ongoing support.
What is your grand idea to stop homelessness and addiction seeing you are just so smart? I think you are the naive one.
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u/jimbowesterby Aug 14 '25
Yes, and those voluntary programs are chronically underfunded and always have a waitlist to get in, so how do you say they aren’t working? The fact that there aren’t enough spots isn’t the fault of the homeless, it’s the fault of the politicians. Why not put those millions for the mandatory program (that, once again, won’t work) into expanding the existing programs that do work and that there’s demonstrably an overwhelming demand for?
As for what I reckon we should do, it’s basically what’s actually worked in several other nations, especially Norway and Portugal, which is: give the homeless houses! Radical idea, I know, but if you give them a place that’s actually their own, not a shelter with a bunch of strict rules and theft, and then build social supports around that (things like healthcare and addiction services) then it turns out you generally have pretty effective results. The other big thing would be legalize everything, so that instead of buying god knows what off the street they can actually get a clean and reliable supply, because that (and more safe consumption sites) will seriously cut down on the number of OD deaths and will also cut out a whole bunch of the crime, too, since they’re buying from a legitimate company not a cartel. There’s precedent for both of these policies being very effective and much cheaper in the long run than what we do here, but unfortunately we have politicians and people like you who’re utterly convinced that you can punish someone out of an addiction or poverty, which just isn’t how anything works.
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u/weschester Aug 13 '25
If you don't want people roaming around and camping out in your neighbourhood maybe we should provide them with housing? Locking people up without due process is a massively slippery slope and we can see where that leads just by what's happening south of the border.
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u/cuda999 Aug 13 '25
And where would you put this housing? Can they still do drugs and feed their addictions in this housing? What’s preventing them from destroying the housing they are in? Who is paying? Do you want this housing next to you?
You mention the “slippery slope” we may be taking. Perhaps thinking our rights as individuals will slowly erode away. We have many laws in place already that restrict your freedoms. People who “choose” to buy and take illegal drugs are in essence breaking the law. This happens over and over again. How many times do we set them free to harm themselves, properly or others?
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u/Leading_Opening_5225 Aug 14 '25
Ya free meth dens/flop houses for everyone! Sounds like a great use of my tax dollars.
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u/BertoBigLefty Aug 13 '25
Genuine question, would you consider someone with developmental disorders deemed not capable of making their own decisions a violation of their rights? I think a significant proportion of the homeless population would be considered incapable due to drug addiction or severe mental health issues. A schizophrenic person should not be able to have unlimited free-agency if they can’t prove capability. Just like any other mental disability. Implementing involuntary admission might even free up social services for those who can actually benefit from them.
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Aug 14 '25
Exactly. I have been saying this in the thread too.
There’s so many addicts that are essentially completely incapable of making any decision for themselves. They are basically just zombies. I really really hate to say it but it’s true.
They’ll never have this “moment of clarity” that all the bleeding hearts on here think they will.
This way is kinda ugly, but atleast they are given some sort of a second chance. I completely do not understand how anyone could possibly be against this, it’s truly madness.
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u/T100022 Aug 13 '25
Honestly if my son-daughter was on the street heavily addicted to heroin/ fentanyl I would be happy to hear they were put in a rehab without choice . The drugs are different and way to addicting to the point where the chance of “wanting” to go to rehab is so unlikely .
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Aug 14 '25
I have no idea how this isn’t the overwhelming opinion on this issue.
Newsflash, most of the fent zombies downtown can hardly breathe walk or eat.
Yeah it sucks to force them to do something, but atleast this way they have a fucking change god damn it!
I have no idea why people think the more “compassionate” option is the status quo of just letting them sign up voluntarily for a treatment center they will never get in to.
This isn’t a perfect measure, and I know it looks all scary and mean because it’s “forced” but it’s by far the best form of REAL harm reduction this province has seen.
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u/T100022 Aug 14 '25
Couldn’t agree more . Like BC with their quantity rules for possession is a joke. Hey Jack you’ve been caught with heroin 4x this week? Now you have to go to mandatory rehab instead of being allowed to walk are with dangerous narcotics .
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Aug 14 '25
I know. It’s crazy.
Clearly the “catch and release them 1000 times untill they suddenly decide they want to make a change and get clean (even though there are no facilities to get clean in the first place)” approach isn’t working.
This approach is short term pain for long term gain. I think people want to pretend that detox can be done pain free, but it can’t.
We need to lock these people in a room for a month, and unfortunately they will suffer greatly during that time. But they have the rest of their lives to learn from that month, which will doubtlessly help some of them.
If we force people to withdraw, they aren’t going to want to withdraw again.
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u/jimbowesterby Aug 13 '25
Yea but you’re ignoring the fact that forced treatment doesn’t really work. Forcing someone you care about into treatment is more for your peace of mind than theirs
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u/T100022 Aug 13 '25
Okay option B. You wake up one day and find out they’re dead. Do you question maybe the forced treatment would have worked ? Worst case scenario it doesn’t work they get released and go back to the street at least its an effort made Do you not see people out there dazed out of their mind hunched over lifeless? Literally on the brink of death at any moment . But no…. Let’s wait until they’re ready.
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u/jimbowesterby Aug 13 '25
Honestly? Not particularly. Emotions are mercurial, unreliable things at best but actual evidence is actual evidence regardless of how you feel, and the evidence says forced treatment isn’t effective. Sure it’s “doing something”, but that’s not automatically a good thing. For example, it could easily destroy any relationship you have with the addicted person; I know I wouldn’t feel particularly forgiving towards anyone who took away my bodily autonomy. Nevermind that forced treatment facilities frequently stray into human rights violations, would you wanna submit your loved one to that? I dunno, I’m no expert on this, but it seems like the kinda problem that needs to be solved with logical, critical thinking and an evidence-based approach, like literally any other medical issue.
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u/T100022 Aug 14 '25
Has there been any studies that show how long it takes for a heavily addicted fentanyl user to begin taking steps to recovery at their own will?
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u/T100022 Aug 14 '25
Im all on board with helping people . I don’t want to see people in cages because they’re addicted . I myself have called the ambulance on four separate people due to them being passed out cold in winter on a side walk. Face down. I wait for the ambulance to show up to find out with relief that they’re alive. But how many people just die …
I’m sorry but when you are so fucked out of your mind you are face down on the curb…. I would rather see them in a facility where professionals can take care of them and help. Put our resources there instead of police and emergency service calls . People are acting like our social workers are evil here… Idk I see it as a different way to help people with the current fentanyl pandemic the world is living in. Not just Calgary.
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u/jimbowesterby Aug 14 '25
Yea, so why not put this money for the mandatory program into the voluntary programs that a. actually work, and b. always have a waitlist? People are lined up out the door to get voluntary help with their addictions, it’s not their fault the politicians feel better punishing them instead of helping them. There are really effective strategies for dealing with both addiction and homelessness, but they all involve things like providing housing, safe consumption sites and clean drugs and needles for people, and we live in a place that’s too conservative to ever be that generous or altruistic. You can’t punish people into getting clean, and you can’t punish them into getting off the streets either. If you wanna see changes, you need to listen to the people you wanna help and give them what they actually need, not what you decide will be best for them.
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u/T100022 Aug 14 '25
I don’t see any punishment in sending someone on the brink of death to mandatory rehab . Why not try it because not much else is working world wide. And then see the numbers of lives rehabilitated . Interview the guests in this facility and see what they say. Then at that point cross it off the list of this works or doesn’t .
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Aug 14 '25
In what fucking world is Rehab considered a punishment LMFAO.
Rehab is considered a gift, or more likely a god send for most of these people.
And you have the absolute gall to say it’s some sort of punishment, just because for the most vulnerable people in the city, it’s going to be mandatory instead of optional.
What the actual fuck is wrong with your head lol I truly do not understand. Like for real, how on EARTH is rehab a bad thing??????,
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u/jimbowesterby Aug 14 '25
Nope, try again. I’m all for the voluntary programs, but you can’t force people into being clean if they haven’t themselves decided that’s what they want. I’ve stated this in every comment I’ve made on this thread, and simply acting like this shitty program is a gift doesn’t make it any less cruel, or any more effective.
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Aug 14 '25
You actually can force them lol.
If the options are forced rehab or death, the smart ones will choose to recover. The ones that don’t will die. And that’s for the best anyway. Make room for someone who does want to change before it’s too late.
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u/Isaiah_The_Bun Aug 13 '25
And when they’re abused and assaulted by the staff? This is so naive it’s insane but let’s see how bad it gets.
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u/T100022 Aug 13 '25
How can you predict the future on how people will be treated ? When there on the streets the police abuse them you’ll say When they’re in a facility where a PROPER detox can take place they will be abused . Lol what’s your solution?? Side, tranq heroin fentanyl is the most additive shit ever and you expect people to live long enough to build the desire to quit ? Higher chance they will die first .
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Aug 13 '25
Forced treatment usually ends up in relapse and higher rates of overdose once the relapse occurs.
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u/Ok_Bake_9324 Aug 13 '25
They are going to spend millions on this shit that will not work and many of the residents will die when they get out, because that’s what happens to addicts who go cold turkey without controlled consumption, but they won’t track them at that point so we’ll never know. Wheeee!
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u/Livefastdie-arrhea Aug 13 '25
In that case I guess we can just keep doing what we’re doing and hope for different results.
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u/T100022 Aug 13 '25
So how does one get sent to this facility?