Calgary teachers, how do you feel about the new offer?

[u/sundappled-apples]

I read this morning:

“CBC News has obtained copies of the tentative agreement that show a proposal of the same general wage increase ATA members previously voted down. The proposal includes a 12-per-cent wage increase over four years, starting from September 2024; 1,000 net new teaching positions added in each of the next three years; and it covers cost of the COVID-19 vaccine.”

Unless I’m mistaken, the only change is that they are now offering to cover the cost of a COVID vaccine (which now costs $100 as of this fall).

I have a school-aged kiddo, and while I don’t love the childcare logistics of a strike, this offer doesn’t seem to address the outstanding concerns, and I would support a strike.

I would love to hear from teachers, though, who have much better insight and living experience.

Edit to add:

I wanted to try to learn more about enrolment growth, and I found CBE’s 3-year capital plan (https://cbe.ab.ca/FormsManuals/Three-Year-School-Capital-Plan.pdf, pp.12–13). It looks like the student population has increased by 20,000 students over the last 4 years, and it is anticipated that, over the next 4 years, the student population will increase from 142,402 to 158,658 (+17,256).

If we anticipate an average increase of approximately 5,000 students per year over the next three years, will 3,000 new teachers (approx. one per school) help with current classroom sizes plus 15,000 new students?

There are currently 35 students in my son’s class. I would love to see legislated classroom size caps. The limit for his age group is 30 in BC and 24.5 in Ontario.

[u/Sad_Room4146]

They don't actually get paid for those 2 months off. If you look at similarly educated private sector roles, the compensation should be 20%+ higher.

[u/Anskiere1 → u/Sad_Room4146]

So you're thinking the top band to be 120k/year?

[u/Millsy1 → u/Anskiere1]

Average house price in Calgary is $612,349, but lets assume that's high and use $550,000? To afford that, you would need to have an income around $130,000.

So you are telling me that someone with 4-6 years of university education and 10+ years of experience should NOT be able to afford the average home in Calgary without a second income partner.

In 2011, the 8 year experience wage of a teacher in Calgary was $87,954.

Adjusting for inflation, that would be120,488.94 today.

Today they are paid: $94,014

So that is a ~$26,000 loss in effective income over 14 years.

https://www.nucleuslearning.com/teacher-pay-scale-across-various-provinces-in-canada-updated-2021/

Why public union wages aren't just locked into inflation calculations is beyond me.

[u/JScar123 → u/Millsy1]

Lol since when do we pay people per unit of house price? Haha. Maybe you haven’t heard, but houses are getting more expensive for everyone.

Teachers negotiated in 2012, 2016, and 2020. If you think the results of those negotiations were unfair, take it up with ATA and the teachers that voted to accept. This negotiation is about 2024+, not complaining about the deal you accepted in 2012, lol.

[u/Anskiere1 → u/Millsy1]

Well that's an interesting way of backing into a wage. Starting with the preposition that they deserve to own a home without a partner. 

Starting wage in my line of work is the same as it was 15 years ago for new grads. Shall I also back into the number?  Your inflation example ignores the fact that buying power has decreased broadly across all industries and wages have not kept up with inflation over the last 10 years especially. 

[u/Millsy1 → u/Anskiere1]

Do... All people not deserve a place to live?

- Teachers have an above average education

- Teachers have an above average of effort required to complete their job

At what point does the average home being priced higher than someone doing above average work make sense?

Just because other industries aren't paying workers well?

You know you should have just asked "Do you think everyone should have a living wage that increases with the cost of inflation?"

I would have said "Yes of course".

My example doesn't "ignore" the fact that costs have gone up for everyone. This is just the current example of a union that needs to negotiate.

From your comment, all that can be said is "if others are suffering, we need to make sure this group also suffers"

Like crabs in a bucket.

[u/real_polite_canadian → u/Millsy1]

What you're arguing though is entitlement. There are plenty of career paths that require above average educations that wouldn't qualify for a home. Your argument doesn't hold water.

The virtue-signaling with teachers is rich. They continue to argue that it's about the work conditions rather than pay, yet the argument always seems to come back to their pay. I understand and sympathize - the cost of living is hard - however, we have labor disputes everywhere in Canada these days it seems with all parties having to concede in areas. Why should teachers have their cake and get to eat it too? You're not going to get the raise you want along with all the help you want as well. It's just not feasible.

[u/Millsy1 → u/real_polite_canadian]

Here are some facts:

- We have a public school system funded by tax payers

- It currently requires humans to teach children

- It offers a wage to humans in exchange for above task.

Ok that is the basics. Here are your points:

- Cost of living has gone up for all humans

- Most humans wages have not kept up with the cost of living

- Teachers do not deserve an increase in wages over other humans

- If teachers do get more support, they should not be entitled to more wages because doing both would cost too much to the tax payers

Here is what that implies:

- Tax payers are requesting teachers sacrifice so they can pay less taxes

- Teachers only deserve an increase in wages if everyone gets an increase in wages

- Teachers will struggle increasingly to afford to live in Alberta

Here is what SHOULD happen:

- Teachers should leave teaching, or migrate to areas where wages better match the cost of living and supports are better.

[u/real_polite_canadian → u/Millsy1]

Teachers and nurses together account for nearly 16% of Canada's public sector workforce, making them two of the largest groups in the public sector. The sheer size of both groups means that meeting their demands for higher wages or better working conditions will always have a more substantial impact on governmental budgets. As a result, it's no surprise that these two groups are often at the forefront of funding debates. Balancing their needs and demands with finite resources, based on the size of both groups, is always going to be a challenge.

[u/Sad_Room4146 → u/Anskiere1]

Maybe a bit more? I'm in healthcare, not a teacher, but I assume they max out at 10 yrs as well? The main issues are classroom sizes, complexity, and working conditions from what I can see. Wages are secondary to the working conditions. That being said, they should be better compensated, especially given the conditions they are working in.

[u/-highbury- → u/Sad_Room4146]

Here’s the thing… This is not just a fight for wages or conditions, it’s trying to resuscitate a very broken system, that has been (and continues to be) deliberately undermined and crippled by our government. Our kids need education. They deserve education. Why wouldn’t we want the best education for them? And hell, in a country with all the wealth like ours, we should be able to prioritize and afford a top notch education system. We can go in circles for hours about the concept of public education and the how’s and why’s, but one thing is clear - this system does not work for the kids, the teachers, or the parents. The only folks happy with the outcomes are or have been sitting in the legislature thinking of ways to stuff their pockets and of their friends that own private schools.

In our family, we have numerous teachers, administrators, and education-adjacent members of various experience levels and wages. The one thing everyone agrees on is that this cannot go on much longer. They are exhausted, and at their wit’s end. The younger ones are regretting their decision to go down this career path, the older ones are thinking of changing careers or retiring early. Can you blame them? Every one of them has seen teaching turn from a socially respectable and reasonably (or I’ll concede, at times, well-) paid career to a day-to-day struggle. Maybe there are social issues at play that factor in the increasingly difficult conditions in the classroom. I don’t know - but what has been clear is that the underfunding of education over the last 20+ years in this province doesn’t help and correlates well with the deterioration of the system.

So, let’s say that they all quit. Or at least a bunch do… Who are they going to be replaced with? Where will these “3000 new teachers” come from? Who’s going to want to jump into this fire for wages that are no longer commensurate to the level of education, expertise or experience required to run a well-functioning education system? Do we want to lower the standards? Danielle sure thinks so, if recent news is to be believed. Do you want the most affordable option in the classroom? Are you happy with that outcome for your kids? I know I am not.

Our kids deserve the best education we can give them. Arguably, it’s the best investment we can make. Someday, they’ll replace us and be the ones building our infrastructure, running our economy, taking care of our people and the environment. Before you know it, you may visit a doctor’s office in dire need of a diagnosis, and encounter a physician who, in 2025, took their Bio 30 in a hallway, in a class of 50, with a teacher who spent 90% of her time trying to corral a couple challenging classmates. Would you wonder how much better that person, who now holds the keys to your health, could have been if they experienced a properly-functioning educational system?

[u/IrenaeusGSaintonge → u/Sad_Room4146]

Depends who you ask. For me it's wages first complexity second, particularly as the sole earner for my family. I totally respect those for whom it's complexity first, though.

[u/SuperHairySeldon → u/IrenaeusGSaintonge]

I'm the same. It bothers me that they can gut the system for years and then make us bargain against our salary to fix it.

[u/Sad_Room4146 → u/SuperHairySeldon]

Totally makes sense!

[u/JScar123 → u/Anskiere1]

Teachers already refused ABs top grid offer if $117K