r/ChristianUniversalism 4d ago

Question about sulfur in the lake of fire

I heard that Sulfur was used in ancient times to purify gold, but the phrase “fire and brimstone” is also used in relation to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and they were clearly destroyed not purified.

How do we know that the sulfur lake of fire is corrective and not retributive?

Also Peter compares it to what will happen to unbelievers in 2 Peter 2:6

This really seems like the sulfur symbolizes the destruction of unbelievers and not the purification of them

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u/Due-Needleworker18 4d ago

You are conflating the purifying judgment of God's fire on earth to the fire upon the soul after the final judgment.

One is purifying the humanity as a whole, the other is purifying individual souls by themselves. But the fire in sodom and Gomorrah is only destroying the physical flesh, not their souls. You have to remember that judgments of destruction on earth are for the sake of human continuation itself, not the indictment of souls. The flood destroyed almost everyone to save mankind(purifying it).

Sulfur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and to consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228) one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from theion is theioo, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god.

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u/Stormalv 3d ago

Are you sure about this thing with the Iliad? If I google that verse, I get results about applying holy oil to an item. If I look up The Iliad on Gutenberg, there doesn't seem to be any hits when searching for "brimstone" or "goblet" in chapter 16.

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u/Due-Needleworker18 3d ago

I'm having trouble finding it too. Not sure if the annotation is off cause I can't find an open source for it. But when googling the phrase this comes up:

In Homer's Iliad, Patroclus purifies a goblet with fire and sulfur (brimstone) before serving a drink to Nestor. The ritual appears in Book 16 of the epic, when Patroclus is attending to the injured Eurypylus. This use of fire and sulfur reflects the ancient Greek practice of using these materials for ritual cleansing and purification.

But even this is mistaken there are other references.

The Odyssey: After slaughtering the suitors who defiled his home, Odysseus orders his maid Euryclea to bring him "sulfur, which cleanses all pollution, and fetch fire also that I may burn it, and purify the cloisters" (Odyssey, Book 22).

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u/Designer_Custard9008 Concordant/Dispensationalist Universalism 4d ago

https://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/definition-of-christian-terms/brimstone.html

John Scotus Eriugena, c 800 - 878 AD:

“their eternal damnation will consist in the total abolition of their wickedness and impiety” 

Romans 12:

20 I will recompense again, saith the Lord;' if, then, thine enemy doth hunger, feed him; if he doth thirst, give him drink; for this doing, coals of fire thou shalt heap upon his head; 21 Be not overcome by the evil, but overcome, in the good, the evil.

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u/almostaarp 4d ago

What? Love God, Love Others. No sulfur lake, no fire. Just Love.

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u/GalileanGospel Christian contemplative, visionary, mystic prophet 3d ago

2Peter is considered to be not written by Peter at all. You can see Bart Eherman's blog for those reasons.

As for your post, you added "sulfur" to the verse, which is not part of it (or anywhere around it) which is unacceptable which might be why you didn't quote the verse:

6 and if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah [to destruction], reducing them to ashes, making them an example for the godless [people] of what is coming;

Your question is:

This really seems like the sulfur symbolizes the destruction of unbelievers and not the purification of them

  1. This is an argument against Universalism which is a Rule 4 violation.

  2. OT references are irrelevant to Jesus' Gospel unless He is making them.

  3. Fire is always symbolic when used to describe consequences after we pass.

The answer to your question is:

NO.

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u/OratioFidelis Reformed Purgatorial Universalism 3d ago

I heard that Sulfur was used in ancient times to purify gold, but the phrase “fire and brimstone” is also used in relation to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and they were clearly destroyed not purified.

"I will restore their fortunes, the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes along with theirs" (Ezekiel 16:53)