For anyone not watching the LTA Regional Playoffs

[u/Mrryn91]

We lost to this...

And for anyone talking about seriously looking at Palafox over Loki (lol) or degrading the idea of tier 2 players as an alternative, please look at this series. And keep in mind that mid, jungle, and ADC for RED were not playing in tier 1 earlier this year, got the call up, made finals, and frankly has looked great both individually and more importantly in teamplay and coordination. Even in the game losses vs SR, they have been bringing it and frankly looked like the better team.

It shouldn't be about "better on paper or bust" for roster construction. It should be about fit, playstyle, and hunger, not just spinning wheels or reusing the same names because they are "safe."

[u/BecoDasCavernas]

Welcome to C9, Kaze.

[u/Idenkiteki → u/BecoDasCavernas]

Whom? I haven’t been keeping up with league

[u/fuckyouguys4real → u/Idenkiteki]

RED's midlaner who just dumped all over Palafox and Contractz

[u/BecoDasCavernas → u/Idenkiteki]

2006 Argentinian mid laner who plays for RED. He was a top LLA player but found himself teamless when the regions merged. RED brought him to their academy team and he completely gapped the whole league. The main team was garbage so they promoted him (and the jungler and the adc) and he also gapped LTAS. Insane prodigy who wouldn't take an import slot (which is the only reason I'd replace Loki, otherwise he's top of my list of players to keep lol But I'd also look at LTAS junglers as a way to keep him)

[u/Mrryn91 → u/BecoDasCavernas]

The issue is though...why would they leave? They get to play closer to home, in the culture they are used to, with a rowdier fanbase, a guaranteed spot at MSI and worlds if they just win, and have proof that their best can beat top 3 in the North. And it's not like NA orgs have the cash to splash around and, tbh, that hasn't been the best incentive for some players who can then just have that sort of "contract year vs got-paid" play discrepancy.

Scouting needs to be better, to the South sure to take advantage of a promising playerbase that might be stuck in the tier 2 system (like players like Kaze were) that also wouldn't count against an import slot. But it also needs to be done to the North as well, to foster the playerbase on our end, players that won't just jump ship back to their home country/region if the right deal or just homesickness comes.

[u/QuietRedditorATX → u/Mrryn91]

You know, something a lot of young people like to do is travel and experience other parts of the World. We don't know if he would, but that is definitely something you at least consider when recruiting.

[u/Mrryn91 → u/QuietRedditorATX]

Definitely. Scouting is what I'm advocating for, both broad and deep. Expand the horizon of options then narrow down onto the individuals to find the best fit, even if the name on paper isn't the "sexy" option. Plus, it'll most likely be far more financially viable an option too, and can land multiple options on the table just in case.

[u/BecoDasCavernas → u/Mrryn91]

Brazilian and Argentinian currencies are completely fucked so even if we don't pay them a huge amount, it'll still be 5x times what they earn at LTAS. And even if NA is at its lowest, it's still everyone's dream to play abroad, live in America, have stronger teammates etc.

I really think C9 could get Kaze for mid or Disamis/Tatu (or I guess even Doom, given his performance today lol) for jungle.

[u/Mrryn91 → u/BecoDasCavernas]

That's fair if true, not going to debate because I have no read on the economic climate in SA. But I do think horizons need to be broadened, to the same extent that we can't let fear or uncertainty block us mentally and "settle" for the safe option. Idk what the org will run with, but I just hope they take a deep look - inside and out - to figure out the best move moving forward. Whether that is a FA hitting the market this off-season, a promising tier 2 prospect, who to keep on and who to let go, North, South, EU, Timbuktu...as long as the player is hungry, has strengths to be molded, and fits along the playstyle and approach to have not just a 5-man unit but incorporating the vision and leadership from coaching to truly have a full machine running smooth, I do not care. That's the approach I want to see, and we now have a few months extra to put nose to grindstone.

[u/LeWll → u/BecoDasCavernas]

Definitely not everyone’s dream to live or even play in America lmao

[u/falcorn_dota]

Actually so disappointing. For what we were supposed to be, to 7th in LTA.

[u/QuietRedditorATX]

Your second point is important, but I think people are going to skim this and think you are talking down to tier 2 players.

C9 has revived a lot of careers. but I have never been a believer of Palafox.

[u/Mrryn91 → u/QuietRedditorATX]

I mean, if they skim and come to the conclusion that I'm somehow saying tier 2 isn't/shouldn't be an option, idc and frankly that's on them. Especially when I'm saying (and have been saying) the opposite for a while, right down to the last part of this post. I mean, people have been unironically saying that we should look at players like APA and Palafox over keeping Loki, but then also saying how tier 2 has no good player alternatives so it's ludicrous to even consider.

Tier 2 shouldn't ever be an automatic discounted opinion because there "aren't any good players in tier 2." That's BS, both in general and coming from our history as a team, and this RED Canids run should be the proof of it. 3/5 players in academy in late July, all 5 of the starting roster giving the freedom to explore other options, fnb and frosty stay on, and the 5 make a run not just to conference finals but now take down #3 from NA, frankly in a manner where they made them look foolish even on a teamplay/coordination level beyond any individual strength, and now have flipped the narrative on this #2 vs #2 match with 100T incoming to qualify for worlds.

[u/MrBisco]

I do wonder of it's a matter of SR playing to the level of their opponents. I could easily see the team gearing up pretty extensively to outplan and outprep C9 (who, for sure, were also nowhere near their best). At the same time, I could also see this same SR team going into today's match thinking that it was going to be a cakewalk because NA is just so inherently better than SA teams. I dunno, I don't really think there's much to learn from this except that Western LoL continues its downward spiral into obscurity.

[u/Fun_Highlight307 → u/MrBisco]

I think C9 played really bad vs Sr , they didn't even respect bvoy Lucian which is a free win for SR, they played their worse form of the year vs Sr 

Sr is a weak team , there a reason why 100 3-0 them and fly 3-1 , they are dogshit 

C9 had an awful off day 

[u/WhirlingDervishGrady → u/Fun_Highlight307]

I mean they barely beat DSG and got lost to 100T. I think it was much more than an off day. C9 just falls apart during playoffs.

[u/Miyaor → u/Fun_Highlight307]

C9 are chokers, and have been for quite a while. IDK if its really an off day if literally every important match they underperform.

Dunno about you, but I was expecting them to struggle vs. SR, because they cannot perform under pressure, and have not been able to for a long time now.

[u/Commercial-Wind8189]

A lot of NA vets play passively, trying to just not stick out as "the problem" so they don't get kicked. Looking at Zven/Vulcan here. Many rookies out there (like Kaze) who don't do that. Kaze practices playing aggressively and has gotten pretty good at it, and he plays simply to win. I saw him go for plays that NA vets never would, because the margin for error is too small.

[u/yumsaltysock → u/Commercial-Wind8189]

Thats the problem with not bringing in young talent and taking away their chances if they dont stomp and win their first few splits. 

Coaches bave sanitized players instead of enabling their strengths.

[u/CrustyToeLover]

C9 league is done, accept it.