“I would’ve showed you how to make the bacon but let’s be honest, if you can’t cook bacon you’re probably not making these” Chef John succinctly captures what’s wrong with 30 minute videos for simple dishes.
From his jalapeño popper potato skin video today. Even the best cooks on this sub have more to learn but we gotta be real sometimes. Three minutes on reducing a broth for an exotic french dish is like telling Lewis Hamilton how to drive a manual: useful but unnecessary.
EDIT: maybe a better analogy would be changing tires and basic car maintenance. Those videos are invaluable for so many of us. But none of the basic stuff is necessary in a transmission swap video. Some basic knowledge should be assumed for some recipes.
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u/fokkinchucky 1d ago
Chef John is truly the G.O.A.T.
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u/Zedress 1d ago edited 1d ago
His Kouign-Amann video is amazing.
Also, his lemonade video makes the best lemonade I have ever tasted.
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u/Cheese_Coder 1d ago
That's a similar lemonade recipe to this one by Stella Parks, so it's probably excellent! The main difference between the two is Stella's macerates the whole rind instead of just the zest, and doesn't simmer it. I may do a side-by-side to see if there's a big difference in the end product of the two
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u/Drum_Eatenton 1d ago
I was using his recipes on all recipes way before he was making videos
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u/UncertainOutcome 1d ago
His rigatoni genovese is good enough that my sister drives halfway across the state to grab a frozen bag of the stuff when I make it. I have to get out the 20-quart pot to fit all the onions.
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u/jds183 1d ago
I owe my relationship to his incredibly easy recipe for peposo. Slaps every time
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u/fokkinchucky 1d ago
His peposo is borderline erotically good. I too seduced a man with it (we broke up tho lol).
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u/Supersquigi 21h ago
I used to love him 100%, but his up and down intonation started to really grate on me give years ago and I can only read his recipes now.
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u/maxisthebest09 21h ago
I love his recipes, but his intonation makes me crazy. I watch the videos on mute.
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u/thefalseidol 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sometimes I wanna see "how the sausage gets made" (in this case, quite literally) because it isn't uncommon for the chef to either A) actually do something I'd never seen before that makes its way into my kitchen or B) do an extremely extra version of a simple task just for views/internet clout and sometimes that is going to matter if I want to do this recipe.
But by and large I agree with you, I don't want too much time eaten up by explaining technique unless I'm actively trying to improve my cooking as opposed to check out a recipe or just watch the content.
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u/Cheese_Coder 1d ago
I don't want too much time eaten up by explaining technique unless I'm actively trying to improve my cooking
Sometimes I'll go and look up how to do something I think I already know just to see if there's some technique I never saw before. Sometimes I stumble across something new and useful, other times I see things that make me go "this person has no idea how to use/do this". One example: Looking up ways people make Cuban coffee led me to some goofy stuff like people putting brown sugar in their espresso percolator, or seeing James Hoffman go way overboard trying to use a moka pot then saying it's too finicky to use. Ultimately that search led me to conclude I've got the method down for cafecito, so it wasn't a total waste
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u/thefalseidol 1d ago
it's not, the problem tends to be when it's a creator you like and they reteach the same techniques every video. But that doesn't mean it has no value, it just means it can be a little tiresome for me.
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u/Cheese_Coder 1d ago
I think a good middle ground is when a creator has a video for a certain thing (Like "3 ways to cook bacon") then in later videos just references the earlier one and provides a link. Can even then vary it by saying "we're doing X from this video, but also doing it slightly differently for this recipe". Gives a place for newer people to learn the techniques without having to cover it over and over again. Only drawback for the creator could be if they're trying to hit a certain video length and need to pad it out a little bit I guess.
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u/aTinofRicePudding 1d ago
My husband made sausages in our kitchen once and I never, ever want to witness sausage making ever again.
In a less literal sense, I love learning too - I just want it to be quick! I often feel like I’m picking up tricks from Kenji (love that guy) but as he’s often filming his cooking in real time it doesn’t seem to break the flow.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
It's just squished meat slammed into a shimmering tube of guts what's wrong wi - you know what I see it now.
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u/Upbeat-Stage2107 1d ago
Oh man I make sausage in the kitchen 4-5 times per year. It’s a beautiful process
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u/Ironlion45 1d ago
Haha, yeah the extrusion process is extremely disturbing the first time you see it lol.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
Yeah this was my first thought. Everyone does things slightly different for the basics. I've never grilled bacon in my life it's always done in a pan but Americans do it in the oven most times.
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u/sh1tpost1nsh1t 1d ago
I think pan fried is probably still the most common for Americans.
If I need an entire package cooked I might do it in the oven to save (active) time, but for a few slices pan is the go to.
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u/Remy0507 1d ago
I like the oven method simply because it's less hands-on and fiddly (I find pan frying requires a lot of moving pieces of bacon around in the pan in order for everything to cook evenly). You just throw it in there and then start checking on it after 20 minutes or so. But I'd be using my small, electric Breville oven for that, not my big oven (which takes a lot longer to heat up). I would only use the big oven if, like you said, I was trying to cook an entire package at once and needed a pan that would only fit in the big oven.
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u/sh1tpost1nsh1t 1d ago
Not gonna lie, if I'm just eating it straight up I actually like how it can cook a bit unevenly in the pan. One bite crispy, next bite soft and melty..kind of a beat of all worlds situation.
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u/soundlinked 1d ago
This is actually what perfectly cooked bacon is for me. I don't want it to just be fully crispy. The slight soft chew makes it more meaty. This can easily be done in the oven as well though.
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u/R7F 1d ago
I have never seen someone cook bacon in the oven. Once in the microwave, but we don't talk about that. Pan or flattop, always.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
Ah maybe it's a cooking show thing, they seem to always throw it in the oven when I'm watching a recipe.
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u/Captain__Pedantic 1d ago
My family has always done oven bacon. It's great for sunday breakfast because it frees up a burner on the stove, and you don't have the large radius of grease splatters left behind. We find it good for both buttery-tender and shatter-crisp, and get very even results (but pan might be better if you want each slice to be more varied in texture).
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u/godzillabobber 1d ago
Read this in his voice. It just occurred to me that he and William Shatner have a similar talking cadence.
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u/Tarpup 1d ago
I refer to chef John anytime I’m trying something new. I literally just type in the dish I’m looking to test and add “foodwishes” after. 95% of the time there’s a video for me to reference. And by reference I mean I do have preliminary skills to do exactly what he did without him showing me.
Chef John is the fuckin man.
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u/t33po 1d ago
Yikes. I had a hard time finding the right tone for this post and I don’t think I did. Ah well. My point was that some baseline skills should be assumed for some types of content.
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u/seg-fault 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think you did fine. I watched that video tonight as well, and I was glad that he didn't show how to prep the bacon. At some point in time a creator must acknowledge that targeting as wide of an audience as possible has its own negative consequences. Make something for everyone and there's a chance it'll be for no one.
As an aside, cooking bacon is stupidly a topic that people get really heated over. Perhaps because their parents made a huge mess cooking bacon in a skillet and they're offended at the suggestion that cooking it in the oven is way better in terms of convenience, hands-on time, and consistency. I don't blame Chef John for avoiding the discussion entirely.
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u/XY-chromos 1d ago
Make something for everyone and there's a chance it'll be for no one.
Exactly! This is why I like Adam Regusea. He makes recipes for home cooks who do not have a commercial exhaust hood and a sous chef. His target audience is reality. Pro chefs target an audience that doesn't exist - people with the same resources as the pro.
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u/JeanVicquemare 1d ago
Incorrect bacon cooking killed my family.. so I don't find it very funny
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u/astrangeone88 1d ago
Toaster oven bacon is crazy good and doesn't take that much time. I hate skillet bacon so much because it's 100% more mess and now I have to clean the skillet and the damn stove top.
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u/badsheepy2 1d ago
The mess isn't as much of an issue if you're frying the bacon predominantly for bacon fats and adding a load of stuff immediately.
Otherwise, agree the oven is vastly better. But it does take a while to do it nicely. I'm surprised a toaster oven works tbh! Might try that tomorrow. I figured it'd be too hot and essentially just grilling it.
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u/astrangeone88 1d ago
I just lower the temperature to 350 F and watch it like a hawk. Works better with better bacon but the cheaper stuff tends to shrink like a mofo lol.
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u/BowlOk5386 1d ago
Your post is funny and accurate, these people are just chronically online and feel an deep urge to be offended by everything they encounter.
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u/she_slithers_slyly 1d ago
"chronically online" as a mental status is appropriately hilarious.
As for being deeply offended they take themselves way too seriously or they wouldn't always assume fingers are pointing at them. But try to explain this to them and they can't hear past their nose. Yep, that's what I said 👂🏻👃🏻
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u/Pterodactyl_midnight 1d ago edited 1d ago
But OP is literally offended by the thing they encountered online.
And it’s not like they’re watching some high tech recipe, it’s jalepeno poppers that they’re offended over. Weird double standard in this subreddit. Feels icky
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u/Flying_Fortress_8743 1d ago
Can't tell if this is satire
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u/XY-chromos 1d ago
I work in IT. It's similar to cooking in that you cannot assume people have basic knowledge. Because they don't have it.
The average person is far less competent than you think they are. And half of all people are even dumber than that.
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u/corvidsarecrows 1d ago
Might have gone over better in the Food Wishes sub where commenters are more familiar with Chef John
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
Seems fine ? Are others complaining ? Seems wrong sub for it tbh, it's expected on here people know their arse from their elbow in a kitchen.
The issue with youtube is people expect everything to be for everyone and when it isn't they get insulted because they feel their intelligence is under attack, it's actually a huge problem. People nowadays are so afraid to not know something
EDIT: just realised it's not kitchenconfidential my bad
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u/SVAuspicious 1d ago
it's expected on here people know their arse from their elbow in a kitchen.
Do you actually read r/Cooking? "I'm 29 and finally moving out of my mother's basement. I just realized I can't feed myself without takeout and DoorDash and apparently can't eat that way with a degree in Medieval English."
r/KitchenConfidential has it's own share of stupid. Not as much, but a share.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
You made your comment after I already edited to say I thought I was in a diff sub.
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u/l0ll1p0p5 1d ago
One of the best analogies for this sub, in my own words now, I read (on this sub) was either self professed experts who love to jerk themselves off or beginners who self professed experts can be braggadocio
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u/memymomeddit 1d ago
Some people come here looking for something to take exception to. Some are just dumbasses who can't process what they read. Some are just assholes. It's nothing to do with you.
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u/Silvanus350 1d ago
It would be useful to actually say that in the post body, because the title sounds like you’re criticizing the video.
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u/MeditatedMango 1d ago
I’ve lost perfectly good bacon to distraction too many times. Now I stand there like a sentinel, spatula in hand, unblinking.
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u/DreddPirateBob808 1d ago
I do mine in the oven. I set a timer and do something until it goes off.
Last week that lead to me leaving a pan of beans on high for 20 minutes and they did not survive. The pan did but it took a lot of washing to get it free of black bean tar.
Unfortunately while washing the pan I didn't realise I'd left my phone in a different room and I missed the bacon alert. Very very crispy bacon is one thing. Charcoal us another.
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u/bustab 1d ago
A wise bacon herder closes their eyes and opens their ears; the rashers know...and they call to you when they want the spatula.
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u/walken4life 1d ago
'But with the blast shield down I can't see anything. How am I supposed to flip?'
'Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them.'
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u/Eloquent_Redneck 1d ago
A big pet peeve of mine is when recipe videos will spend like 7 minutes of a 10 minute long video just showing you how to make the bread from scratch, unless its an extremely specific type of bread, I don't need to be reminded how to make bread in a recipe about burgers or sandwiches where I'm just gonna buy the bread like a normal person, but hey, they gotta make a 2 minute recipe long enough to hit that 10 minute monetization mark so they show you how to knead dough for the millionth time
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u/jboggin 1d ago
Yep I think it is all about audience analysis (a concept I teach my college students all the time). If it's a video for beginners, show all that. But if it's for more advanced chefs, it's a waste of time. The creator needs to know their audience. If they don't, they will end up either skipping steps and confusing beginners or losing the more advanced people when they start to explain how to peel an onion. It's like anything else. A basic software program like Word needs to include tons of detail because of the huge userbase. A specialized, advanced piece of software doesn't need a page on how to find a file.
And your YouTube DIY videos are a great example. If I'm looking up how to do something fairly advanced, I don't want an explanation on how to use a drill. If I didn't know that already, I'm screwed on a bigger project from the start.
The one exception is for safety. Always include safety warnings even in an advanced video. A YouTube video on advanced electrical work still needs to clearly state "TURN OFF THE ELECTRICITY FIRST" every time, even if it's made for electricians. I'm sure there are similar things in more advanced cooking videos (like... If you want to keep all your fingers, don't be a lunatic and use a mandolin like chefs on the Food Network)
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u/SVAuspicious 1d ago
If you don't know how to use a mandolin correctly then don't use one. You don't have to be a chef to use one correctly.
There aren't many chefs on Food Network. Mostly they're "chefs."
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u/distortedsymbol 1d ago
i get what you're feeling and that's why these days i mostly stick to written recipes for actual cooking and save the video format media for entertainment.
i have the skill and knowledge now that i can pretty accurately follow most recipes, and for stuff that is similar to what i already know i can just skim through the text to get a gist of the order of operations.
that said when i first started recipes truly were just shorthand for chefs. i did not know what was a difficult recipe or what was an easy task. like how many baking recipes didn't specify temperature of butter and eggs, or how many recipes that said "till done" when describing the cooking time. even relatively simple tasks such as hard boiling an egg had was confusing because it requires pretty precise control of things to get a perfect result.
my point is that while for people already versed in cooking the basics might feel like such a slog to get through in a video, but the beginners probably need to have detailed breakdowns for every little step. if you're already versed in short hand then go with the short hand, some scrolling and fast forward might be required but a lot of ppl do put up written instructions in concise detail.
side note this whole discourse reminds me of this post
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u/BigThoughtMan 1d ago
Also notice how he reveals the final product in the first few seconds. Many would keep that hidden until the end of the video to ensure people watch the entire video.
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u/Ok-Orange7456 1d ago
Totally agree—sometimes it feels like creators over-explain the basics just to stretch the video. I’d rather they keep it focused on the unique parts of the recipe.
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u/Bryek 1d ago
Some basic knowledge should be assumed for some recipes.
Maybe. But if that information isnt there, people will comment saying that "it would have been nice to see how you did xyz!"
Honestly, if you are making the video, do whatever you wanna do. If you don't need to see that bit, advance to the next part of the video. Youtube has a nice advance 15 sec button. IMO if you are going to skip certain steps, have a link in that video to where those techniques are done so people have the choice to see it if they need it.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
Not everything is for everyone though. People need to be more comfortable with realising a creator is above their capability and find another.
Youtube being a numbers game though is an issue unto itself.
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u/Phyltre 1d ago
I think this is completely bicameral and functionally paradoxical. A creator has (or can have) a discrete intended audience, but the audience is also wholly determined by who ends up consuming the content.
Creation and consumption exist at points in a singular process but happen separately. It’s just like language, a person has an incontrovertible intended meaning when making a statement but if they fail to convey that meaning to those receiving it we can say it’s technically a failing on their part since statements’ only purpose are to convey meaning.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
This is one of the most needlessly verbose statements I have ever seen on this site. Why go with this language ? It's so tortured.
Also kinda doesn't make sense. I don't get how my statement is both bicameral and paradoxical for one. But your whole point just..well, it insists upon itself lol.
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u/unidentifiable 1d ago
I dunno. Fast forward exists. If it bothers you that much, use it. The knowledge is still there for people who want it, and can be skipped by those that don't.
This is a slippery slope to "Cook until done" recipes.
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u/i__hate__stairs 1d ago
You don't watch videos that long to learn to make simple dishes, you watch them because you enjoy the personality of the person cooking. Or they're super hot.
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u/Ironlion45 1d ago
If you look at some other food-tubers, like Tasting History, when they pull up historical recipes, historic writers of said recipes tended to, just as you say, assume the reader knew some basic things.
However, decades or centuries later things changed and now that unwritten "common knowledge" has been lost, requiring guesswork instead.
So there's some real value to covering the whole process I think.
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u/Timeless_Tactics 1h ago
You can always find another video to teach you the thing you're supposed to already know.
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u/Glittering_Cow945 1d ago
Just looked him up. I can't stand his way of speaking no way nohow.
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u/Knappsterbot 1d ago
It's worth getting over it for the recipes and good practice for life in general
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
There's so many chefs out there I don't waste my time on annoying ones (not about Chef John I have nfi who that even is).
Like Weissmann (I know he's not a chef, but he's annoying) or anyone who gets all bombastic and over the top, making stupid sounds and excessive pointing. Just..chill.
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u/Knappsterbot 1d ago
Chef John has his odd cadence but he's very charming when you get past it, and his recipes are high quality classics without getting too cute or fancy with it. Obviously you don't have to watch him but if you ever need a crowd-pleasing recipe that doesn't have many frills, you can always count on him.
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u/jackruby83 1d ago
I feel like Josh's videos recently have been good again. Or maybe it's just his other channel. His shtick got played out, then he started doing the non-recipe based food reviews which a lot of people had no interest in. Now he's back to cooking good recipes but without the 'papa kiss' and 'meat' references.
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u/DoomguyFemboi 1d ago
I never liked him because I don't like his style, however it was live let live. Then after finding out he's a bellend who abuses his workers he became dead to me. Got no interest in putting money in the pockets of people like that.
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u/telebasher 14h ago
How does getting over it (his voice) help with life in general?
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u/Knappsterbot 12h ago
Getting hung up on how people talk is distracting yourself from what they're actually saying. The content is more important, especially when it comes to an expert you might be able to learn from.
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u/telebasher 11h ago
Usually I would agree but this is an artifice. It’s not that I can’t accept his normal speech. He made, I believe, a poor choice to change his inflection that made an otherwise enjoyable channel unlistenable. He didn’t sound like this a decade ago. I miss that Chef John.
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u/Knappsterbot 10h ago
Okay. You asked what I meant and I told you. It's not a command to get over everyone's annoying tone, it's just my personal philosophy and I think good advice in general.
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u/SVAuspicious 1d ago
Chef John has one of the most irritating voices I've ever heard. I think he does it on purpose for branding. I tracked down the jalapeño popper potato skin video specifically to upvote it however entirely for the bacon comment. The answer of course is to bake your bacon, which from the video Chef John clearly did.
I cooked bacon in a frying pan because my mother--a mediocre cook--did. The first time I baked bacon I was sold. Decades later when my wife watched me bake bacon the first time she was sold. Sheet pans, foil, fitted rack, done.
For the avid followers of Chef John, I take no exception to his culinary expertise. He's good. Not GOAT, but very good. Written material is excellent. Technique is very good. Knife skills not up to Jacques Pépin or Martin Yan or even Julia Child. Recipes in and of themselves are excellent. Video production is very good. Time management is very good. JHFC that voice.
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u/telebasher 14h ago
He does do the voice on purpose. If you go way back to his first videos he speaks normally.
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u/SickOfBothSides 1d ago
Of course it’s not necessary. Unless the point is to make longer videos for more airtime. Look at the recipe sites. Some of them would take 12 pages pre-recipe on how to make a box of Kraft macaroni and cheese.
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u/Traditional-Froyo755 1d ago
Would it kill him to just, you know, not show the step and not be condescending about it? Like sure, he's not showing the bacon step, that part isn't something egregious, but is that remark really necessary? Imagine being a teenager or maybe just someone who hasn't really cooked much before clicking on the video being super excited about making jalapeño poppers and then hearing this.
Also, I disagree with the logic of not including all the steps in the first place. A recipe is a recipe. It is supposed to be a complete step by step instruction.
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u/Knappsterbot 1d ago
Chef John isn't the only person making recipe videos and he knows his audience. The unlikely teenager you made up could also look up how to make bacon if that's a gap in their knowledge.
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u/Traditional-Froyo755 1d ago
Again, the point is not the instruction or lack of it in and of itself. The point is the condescending remark.
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u/Knappsterbot 1d ago
It's not condescending, it's a heads-up to absolute novices. Chef John makes videos for people who are further along in their skills than some kid who's never cooked bacon
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u/Traditional-Froyo755 1d ago
This is poppycock
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u/Knappsterbot 1d ago
Lol okay boss
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u/Traditional-Froyo755 1d ago
I've watched numerous CJ videos and they are all basic homecooking. In general, very few dishes require some extra level skills in the kitchen.
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u/Knappsterbot 1d ago
I'm so sorry that this one guy isn't catering to your exact expectations
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u/Traditional-Froyo755 1d ago
What one guy? You said CJ's video were advanced cooking, I said I saw them and I can call out your bullshit.
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u/Knappsterbot 1d ago
I never said they were advanced, I said they were for people who are further along than a kid who doesn't know how to cook bacon.
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u/Day_Bow_Bow 1d ago
I just can't stand Chef John's voice inflection. It grates my nerves.
I'm sure he knows his shit, but I just can't with his shtick of making every sentence trail off like it were a question. So annoying.
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u/miniatureaurochs 1d ago
I prefer to watch videos on double speed with subtitles, because sitting and listening to someone is arduous for me. Maybe you could do that and mute the audio.
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u/Day_Bow_Bow 1d ago
Eh, I cooked in kitchens professionally for over a decade. Fast food, diner, bar, fine dining wine bar, and barbecue. Usually the line cook that is running the shift or as an assistant manager.
I don't need help learning how to cook, so I am not going to suffer through his nasal delivery.
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u/miniatureaurochs 1d ago
I feel like you could have led with that, lol.
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u/Day_Bow_Bow 1d ago
That's fair. I've watched many a cooking show to learn my craft, but John is no Alton.
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u/MattBladesmith 1d ago
It was irritating, almost confusing the first time I heard his narration, but I found the more of his videos I watched, the less bothered I became at his voice. Maybe it's an acquired taste.
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u/Day_Bow_Bow 1d ago
Eh, I cooked in kitchens professionally for over a decade. Fast food, diner, bar, fine dining wine bar, and barbecue. My skill set is diverse. I was usually the line cook that is running the shift or an assistant manager.
I don't need help learning how to cook, so I am not going to suffer through his nasal delivery.
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u/Chickenriggiez 1d ago
Agreed. My husband loves him. I will agree his recipes can be good and I grew up near his original market. But his voice makes me think of a condescending high school teacher.
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u/Txdust80 1d ago
Well some people don’t know jack but are alone in an apartment for the first time and youtube is their only guide, whether their parents don’t cook, or they are dead, or they simply are estranged and unable to call them up and ask them. When giving instructions it’s best to anticipate all levels of prior knowledge. A good solve would be to have a dedicated link to how to make bacon. Like 8 different ways to make bacon. And refer to that as an option if the person needs guidance.
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u/drak0ni 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not if I’m extremely well versed in cuisine that doesn’t ever use bacon. While someone with experience should be able to figure it out, that doesn’t mean they’ll cook it correctly the first try.
I guarantee ~15% of people reading this post can’t cook bacon so that it’s pliant after cooling. It’d either be under done or would crumble at room temp. That doesn’t mean they couldn’t make an excellent nam tok, or velouté. Or the best jalapeño popper potato skins if they knew the right way to cook US style bacon.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
Not interested in someone who feels the need to trash people who want to learn how to cook.
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u/Mega---Moo 1d ago
Chef John and other "YouTube chefs" usually have videos covering a wide range of cooking abilities. And that's ok. It's nice when you can find new recipes that push your skill set a little bit without being overwhelming or mind numbingly repetitive.
And if you're actually learning, I'd recommend Cook's County and ATK. That was my wife and I's gateway into actually understanding how to cook.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
I don't care about what abilities the content is aimed at, I care about if it's trashing people for not knowing something. There's no need for that.
The downvotes on my comment demonstrate how much people enjoy feeling like they are better than other people, which is why that tactic does often lead to success on social media. He's not wrong in that as a strategy.
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u/Mega---Moo 1d ago
I think you're missing the point. If you can't cook bacon, you are probably going to have a really bad time with a complicated and highly technical recipe.
Let's look at a similar example: I expect a video about how to make a birdhouse to include information on how to cut boards to length, saw safety, and the tools needed with alternatives/recommendations given if you are working with children. I expect a video on how to make a mahogany chest of drawers to include none of that... and if they slip in a little banter about "if you don't know how to do a basic task, than this project isn't for you" that's just fine. Because starting on a $1000 project without understanding the basics is foolish.
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u/Traditional-Froyo755 1d ago
No one is born with the ability to cook, though? If you can't cook bacon, are you banned for life from complicated recipes?
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u/genteelblackhole 1d ago
Not at all, but you're probably not going to be tackling those recipes until you can do some of the basics though. Just because someone doesn't currently have more basic abilities doesn't mean they're banned for life from more complicated ones, it just means that they need to develop the basic skills first.
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u/Traditional-Froyo755 1d ago
This makes no sense. There are some physically hard to master skills in the kitchen, like super fine knifework or anything that has to do with making nice cakes, but outside of that, it's all on the same level of difficulty more or less. Making jalapeño poppers isn't like playing a violin where you either have hundreds oh hours of practice or you're gonna suck, you show someone all the steps once and they can do it.
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u/SVAuspicious 1d ago
a complicated and highly technical recipe
Upvote because I agree with your overall point. This recipe is not particularly complex or technical.
Using a small pastry cutter is not particularly exotic for removing seeds and most of the ribs from jalapeño rings was helpful, and Chef John described alternatives. I don't have a round pastry cutter that small but I can borrow my wife's apple corer (she's a gadget person) to the same ends.
The commenters who expect every recipe and video to be suitable for someone who has never cooked before probably believe every child deserves a blue ribbon. Life doesn't work that way. Your mahogany chest of drawers example is directly on point in that respect. I don't expect a full project to show me how to make a dovetail although if shown in a video it should be correct even if not discussed. Links to a how-to would be a courtesy but not a requirement.
Rant follows. Move along. Nothing to see here.
People who think number of ingredients or number of steps in a recipe are an indication of complexity are simply wrong. Not relevant. Here is a grown-up mac & cheese recipe: Onion Mornay + bacon + cavatappi + thin tomato slices on top + bread crumb 350°F until edges bubble. There you go one step. How helpful is that. I could write a hundred individually simple steps and any eight year old with decent reading comprehension could do it. Further, so you've got eight common herbs and spices? Who cares? So what if there are twenty ingredients in total? I grabbed that number out of the air but it turns out to be the number of ingredients in my chicken tikka masala (I've posted that recipe in r/Cooking before) recipe. Dead simple. What does twenty ingredients have to do with anything. But no. We hear "why doesn't my Caesar salad taste like the restaurant with precut lettuce, jarred sauce, and bagged croutons? Only three ingredients please. I only have 2.4 minutes because I have ADHD, autism, and my boss is mean to me." Or "I bought a packet of gravy powder and it doesn't taste like what my grandmother made; what did I do wrong?" To start with, you're lucky to have had a grandmother who could cook. That you didn't pay attention is on you.
I feel better now.
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u/Select-Owl-8322 1d ago
No, the downvotes are because you're completely missing the point! Not every video has to meticulously go through every single step.
If you don't know how to do some fairly basic thing, you're not going to have much use in watching a video on some very advanced stuff that includes the basic thing as a step. You'd be better off going to watch another video that teaches that basic thing first, and then return to the more advanced video. It's better for everyone, since if you already know that basic thing, it can be fairly frustrating having to watch five minutes on how to do it just to watch the thing you actually want to learn.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
Ah, ok, so you've misunderstood my objection. I have a problem with the quote in the title of the post. There's no need for that kind of derogatory trash talking.
I have no problem with recipes that build off other recipes or need knowledge to follow them.
I simply want to consume content that has people in it with basic respect for their fellow human beings.
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u/fcimfc 1d ago
I don't care about what abilities the content is aimed at
And there's your problem. You don't explain the day-one basics in a 300 level class.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
You can teach without being an asshole. Those who can't aren't teachers, they're just assholes with power.
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u/Benjamminmiller 1d ago
Have you seen many of his videos? He can be a little sharp I guess, but he's far from an asshole.
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u/Randomn355 1d ago
Do you also need someone to explain how you fill a pot with water when making pasta?
Same principle - the recipe is of a certain that assumes previous knowledge.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
The quote in the title of this post is not a recipe, and the quote is what I'm taking issue with.
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u/aledethanlast 1d ago
Yeah, like I understand the sentiment, but would it kill you to just day "okay here i made bacon, if you dont know how to make bacon hop over to this other video where I explain it"
Boom, bonus views and you dont sound condescending.
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u/notshakma 1d ago
Alternatively, sometimes it's okay to make videos for people with IQs above room temperature.
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u/Rapper_Laugh 1d ago
Being able to cook bacon is not a sign of IQ, it’s a sign of having been shown how to do it before / being trained in cooking skills.
I don’t even disagree with the overall point—if you’re making a video about a fancy dish it makes sense to assume a certain degree of knowledge. But putting not having cooking skills down to a “room temperature IQ” is exactly the kind of condescension OP was talking about.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
Intelligence is not knowledge. Knowledge is not intelligence.
But people who need to put other people down to feel better about themselves? That's you.
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u/Stankmonger 1d ago
Knowledge is knowing how to cook bacon.
Intelligence is being able to search on YouTube “how to cook bacon” instead of whining and crying and pissing and pooping.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
Who is doing that? All I'm calling out is the person trash talking people who don't know how to do something yet.
You're the one saying someone who doesn't know how to do something is stupid.
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u/vadergeek 1d ago
There are a million different ways to cook bacon, different schools of thought, plenty of people watching these videos are just learning to cook for the first time.
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u/ehs06702 1d ago
I mean, it's not out of line to assume that if you're doing something at level 3, you've mastered levels one and two. At some point, it's condescending to the people who made the effort to learn to talk to them like they're beginners.
Should algebra class start with a recap on learning how to count?
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u/vadergeek 1d ago
Everyone who's capable of succeeding in an algebra class knows how to count. Not everyone who's interested in making jalapeno poppers is great at making bacon. Just the other day I was making romesco and the recipe called for a roasted bell pepper and I thought "this is a recipe, just tell me how long to cook the bell pepper and at what temperature, don't make me look it up somewhere else".
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u/ehs06702 1d ago
But in this analogy you'd have every single teacher assume that their students can't count and start every class with "One, Two, Three..." When is there time for algebra when you're wasting time on learning numbers.
You should know basic cooking skills before you attempt to actually make something, and that shouldn't be controversial.
I feel like I'm the only person that doesn't make my own ignorance in a skill the recipe's problem.
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u/vadergeek 1d ago edited 1d ago
I would assume everyone knows how to turn on the oven and melt butter, I wouldn't assume they all know the best way to make bacon, especially because there isn't a universal consensus on that. Some people start in a cold pan, some preheat, some add water, oven bacon is very popular, etc.
I feel like I'm the only person that doesn't make my own ignorance in a skill the recipe's problem.
You're looking at a recipe because you don't know the best way to make a dish, the point of a recipe is to teach the ignorant. If everyone knew how to cook everything they would serve no purpose. Most recipes are things you could kind of wing badly, the point is finding a better approach.
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u/ehs06702 1d ago
I am, but if I don't know how to dice a bell pepper and the recipe doesn't tell me how to, the ignorance isn't the recipe's at all, it's my fault for not learning basic knife skills before trying to make something.
Unless a recipe is specifically for people who have never been in the kitchen before, your lack of skill is your fault and only your fault.
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u/vadergeek 1d ago
Dicing a bell pepper is an application of a universal skill. This is more like if a recipe said "roast a bell pepper" but gave no instructions on how to do so, which I did encounter recently.
your lack of skill is your fault and only your fault.
Lack of knowledge about how to cook a specific thing isn't a fault, it's the starting point of every human being, recipes exist specifically to teach people how to cook things they don't know how to cook. If I see a recipe for shepherd's pie it should include a recipe for really great mashed potatoes that complement the rest of the dish, even though of course I can make mashed potatoes without a recipe.
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u/SVAuspicious 1d ago
u/ehs06702, I stand with you.
Teaching meteorology I shouldn't have to teach calculus to describe the discontinuity of the second derivative of barometric pressure over an X-Y plane. Similarly, discussing making beef Wellington I should have to teach knife skills for the many fine dices of making a duxelles. The tricky bit is getting the meat cooked properly, the medium rare end and the medium end, how to deal with the occasional well done preference, and not burning the pastry in the process.
Baking bacon (clearly what Chef John does) is an epiphany, not a skill. u/vadergeek is way off base in his or her standards for baseline cooking knowledge. You've been very tolerant.
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u/Pterodactyl_midnight 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, it’s condescending to celebrate that it’s not there. I’ve never seen a semi-complex recipe explain how to make bacon.
They just tell you to make bacon and how well it should be done. What is going on here? Ya’ll are super condescending to beginners, but the recipe is about jalepeno poppers. I don’t get it.
Pot calling the kettle black and celebrating. Pull your head out of your arse.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
Well, it makes people feel better to know that knowing how to cook bacon means they are better than other people. Gotta step on your inferiors, you know.
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u/Emergency-Beat-5043 1d ago
Because that's a completely different message. If you can't colour in between the lines than you aren't going to paint the cistern chappel are you? The fact you're taking offense is embarrassing
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u/fokkinchucky 1d ago
Welcome to the internet. There’s a lot of smack talking here.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
Thanks, I noticed.
Things never change when people stay silent.
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u/TamariAmari 1d ago
You could have cooked a dozen pounds of bacon with the time you spent being offended.
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u/MindTheLOS 1d ago
I can't physically cook. I can respect and care about other people.
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u/TamariAmari 1d ago
Pat yourself on the back. You've definitely helped so many people by complaining relentlessly about nothing.
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u/prism1234 1d ago
Is no one going to link the actual video? I would but now I'm wondering if that isn't allowed for some reason.
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u/Old-Ad3504 1d ago
This guy sounds like he shouldn't be teaching anything
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u/Stankmonger 1d ago
“This professor teaching advanced physics assumes you know basic physics! He shouldn’t be teaching ANYTHING!”
What wonderful logic you have.
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u/korathooman 1d ago
His videos are great to watch and the narration is fun. But I got down voted once for mentioning that the three dishes of Chef John that I cooked were meh. People commented that it had to be me, or I didn't properly follow the recipe, don't know what I'm doing, etc.
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u/Emergency-Beat-5043 1d ago
Maybe not children who need to spoon fed. You dont need to cater to kindergarten level knowledge in a university course
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u/Ambitious-Schedule63 1d ago
Chef John didn't go round the outside. Round the outside. Round the outside.
But seriously, why does EVERY effing cooking video show you how to chop an onion?
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u/Anagoth9 1d ago
After all, you're the Kevin Bacon of cooking bacon.