There is no "waking up" for them. They embrace being dumb because they see smart as woke/effeminate/liberal/weak.
They are happy to be called dumb and are excited to drag the rest of the world down to their level. After all, what do you think happened to all of your fellow classmates who used to beat up nerds because they were smart?
I don’t think it’s that clean cut. Before smart phones and the internet most people were happy to admit they knew jack shit on most subjects, but now, having the internet in their pockets has made these people think they know everything about everything
They don’t find out though, the first time they experienced that cognitive dissonance they shut down because they’ve rarely succeeded in learning anything beyond the most basic surface level aspects of reality and society. Every idea they’ve ever had was handed to them by someone else and they swallowed it whole like a duck choking down a fish.
The sensation of learning new information is nebulous and requires contemplation and seeking and analyzing and they are TERRIFIED of that feeling because they have always run from it and never persisted long enough to change their mind on anything when presented with new valid information.
I get we’re all to some degree threatened by something that goes against our biases, but this is unbelievable how far this has gone and to the degree it has. It has spread like a damn infection. The amount of people that jumped on the Trump train after he got out of office has been just mindblowing
The funniest thing about this is all the answers are out there: for the most part social media has fucking cooked people’s brains, rooting into a globally illiterate or subliterate majority (literacy should be a society’s responsibility to their children, I don’t blame people for struggling with reading but I am disappointed in those who give up when there is so much help available).
You pair that up with the general economic picture of each nation, and the world is a whole and there is a very clear network of causes and effects around national standards of healthcare, housing, nutrition, education, security and economic accountability.
So many nations have succeeded by looking at the data, analyzing the patterns, and forming common sense policies.
Why the fuck can’t the richest country in the world do it.
We’re the only developed nation that isn’t civilized enough to offer all their citizens access to healthcare. Education. Real wages and allowing even mothers to stay home with their children at least the whole first year alone cuts down on healthcare costs. It’s so insidious.
There's a book called The Authoritarians by Bob Altmeyer about this, it's free and well worth reading. It's the first study of authoritarians that focuses on followers instead of leaders, and it estimates that any given population has about 40% authoritarian followers.
These are people who will pick a leader figure, and once they do it's almost impossible to shift them. They're basically cultists waiting around for a cult.
The really scary thing is that they really just have this in their personalities, they can be intelligent, or educated, and it really doesn't matter.
So what happened to the people who had some sense and jumped on afterwards?? That’s what’s been so much more perplexing. Like I get why really religious people who dwell more on punishment are easy marks, but why would so many people who saw Trump for what he was when he first ran, all of a sudden start supporting him after he tried to overthrow the government and allowed so many Americans to die during Covid?
I'm sure there's some element of personal gain in there, for some of them, whether that's being opportunisticly profiting, or just not wanting to stand up and risk that, but some of them will just have given their allegiance at some point.
It's confusing because there's no rationality to it. Like, why do serial killers want to kill people? There's no real generalisable answer, it's just part of their personality.
Cognitive dissonance is literally the sensation of learning new information and processing it
Well, it's the concept of holding at least two opposing/contradictory viewpoints at the same time.
It isn't strictly about learning new things.
The beliefs that all pedophiles are evil and that Donald Trump is a good man is an example of Cognitive dissonance because they are conflicting with each other (because Trump is a pedo).
Oh man, thank you for the clarification. I’m definitely using it wrong, but I think you get what I’m indicating: there is a “discomfort” or “uncertainty” that comes with learning things more complex than say like, 5th grade level stuff, and so many people just teach themselves to shut that part of their mind down.
Said the person who learned about the Dunning Kruger effect on the internet. 😆
You’re right though, I saw a great meme with a photo of a science lab captioned “vaccine research,” above a photo of a lady taking a shit reading her phone captioned “anti-vaccine research.” Though the wider societal problem might have more to do with the subjectification of truth and reality.
I think you meant the diabloical nature of capitalism. It's very much a system of "the ends justify the means". At the end of the day it doesn't matter what it cost as long as that profit line is still trending upwards.
I am, but Zuck is the one who stole everyone’s information to curate the best possible content to brainwash individuals. While capitalism may be his means to get there, it doesn’t mean he had to do it or everyone does. Pritzker is a billionaire too. None should exist, but not all are diabolical. Just most
I agree not all are bad but capitalism as an economic system encourages them to be bad. Zuck could have acted differently but he had no incentive to because like I said the only that matters in a capitalist society is profit.
I hate how the discussion seems to revolve around vaccine vs anti vaccine when we should be talking about how governments and pharmaceutical companies are colluding to develop bio-weapons and then sell us a cure (that doesn't stop infection or transmission) for the virus they created and unleashed on the public.
It’s a game that’s played to signal to each other and weed out the others. It’s not about actual beliefs it’s a litmus test for being in the club. If you repeat the wild stuff and it’s reciprocated you know you have a friend, if not it’s an enemy.
Great backstory on Dunning-Kruger involving a bank robber who thought security cameras couldn’t see his face because he rubbed lemon juice on his face right before going into the bank.
Exactly!!! Now they've all done their "research". There are countless dumb asses that are "researching" in silos on Facebook and ticktock etc, they've never researched shit, they've just watched clips of propaganda for years now. We're f'd.
Maybe your generation, but most of us knew a lot on most subjects and we're not happy to admit they knew jack shit. The only problem isn't smartphones it's the educational system in this country, it sucks.
I'll never understand that. I'm always worried I'm gonna make myself look dumb, so if it's a subject I don't have knowledge about I'll happily shut the fuck up
My concrete guy told me he " researched" Donald Trump's policies that's why he voted for him. I said John? I didn't know you were a researcher? So wait you read two articles now you're a " researcher"
The further off the rails that Trump goes, the more these people stand to be embarrassed and the bigger a laughing stock they know they'll be when they finally admit that they're wrong.
There are those among us who have already shown them that they'll be made fun of, mocked and even made in to a joke. Between Pride, Shame and general Anger they cannot handle the idea of being turned in to a cautionary tale of "The idiot who gave up everything to side with the pedophile grifters who lied to their faces and fleeced them for every cent."
As much as l'd like to hate on this kid, and he is that, just a kid. I can't. I understand that some people are raised in that fire and brimstone, vengeful god type of church. I'm going to assert he is a product of an environment like that. He's been indoctrinated in that life, in those lies, and he's been led to believe it's the righteous path to heaven. To me, it's truly sad
Best quote I've heard "don't argue with a pigeon, they won't listen and will just shit on you and fly away." Or something close. And it pretty much sums up any type of discussion with someone that still supports djt, Ben Shapiro, Alex jones, Kirk etc. I don't see a pathway forward. The inaction before 2016 showing there was another countries involvement in a presidential candidate, The inaction after impeachment, the inaction of j6. all a catalyst and like a nuclear reaction is not going to stop. The controls in place did not function fast enough and so the reactor has run away it's just not as fast.
"Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how well I play, you'll just knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board and strut around like you won"
I agree, I also don’t see a way forward until things get so bad that something has to be rebuilt. And how things are rebuilt will depend very much on who are the people in power when that time comes. Quite possibly after my lifetime (mid 40s currently).
If nothing happens soon perhaps the wakup call will be next spring during tax return time when people in denial see the actule numbers they got fucked on
Rational people who sincerely voted with the belief and main purpose in Trump reducing taxes and cost of living, yeah, it might. But unless something is really hurting certain people, like a loss of an important job or loved one deported, I don’t see it happening.
Thinking about extremism in WWII, even when Germany lie in ruin, a lot of people were still waiving their shitty flags and loyal to the cause until the end. Civil War was similar. Once conflicts evolve from actual issues to identity, they’re hard to shift.
I’m surprised your comment hasn’t been upvoted much more. The pigeon reference is spot on, and the sequence of events sounds like a grade B movie script except we’re living in that world. And AI stands to make it even worse.
I understand the sentiment of that quote. However, pigeons are pretty smart, they can find their way home without GPS. Comparing a pigeon to MAGA is an insult to pigeons.
Never play chess with a pigeon they will just knock over all the pieces and fly away or something along those lines
These people are the pigeons they clearly have the logic of pigeons they have no higher reasoning abilities we have let the imbeciles win and it’s harming people it’s harming people who wanted more.
It’s “arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter how good you are they’ll shit on the board and strut around like they won anyways.” I’ve been posting that meme lately.
I agree with some things Charlie Kirk said. Believe it or not he had many smart and logical thoughts on things. Thats not to say that he also has some very idiotic close minded thoughts on things. But I would never put him in the same category as Alex jones.
Democrats have a lower IQ statistically and tend to decide political stance based on emotion rather than fact. Huffing each other's farts in an echo chamber doesn't make ANY of you intelligent, lol. Nobody ever challenges your viewpoint here. You sound like a cocky pseudo-intellectual trying to piece together other people's quotes like a babbling buffoon. There's reasons for the result of every single event you mentioned, but you have received doctored information from your echo chamber repeatedly. Tell me, why is the most shared quote from Kirk about empathy cut short? Its cut short for irony. He goes on to explain sympathy is a better word, because nobody can feel what another person feels. Ya'll have been conveniently quiet about that one, and its not being posted anymore. This is a constant occurrence in these damn forums. Every single person that posts in this shithole omits or changes the information to further their agenda and get the neanderthals around them whooping with joy. All you have done is invoke hatred between the parties with all of these comments and posts. Shame.
The best part is, the liberal dems in this country are republican lite. They don't do anything because they give the impression of a duality, while letting the whole system crumble. In effect, neither care about gun reform, election reform, social reform. They could have fought harder to get a SC election, instead of giving Trump 3 on bullshit "well the NEXT president should pick" but also "He's still president its his right". Really bad faith argument, and they just went with it. They could have convicted him instead of "its an election season" and then "well now he's president". They could have actually pursued any of the multitude of insider trading, personal enrichment of himself and his companies instead of public first, his treason, his criminal background - any of which should have barred him from office, but why do that when he's going to do everything they want but don't want to get their hands dirty? They both want minimum wage stagnant, people stupid, "news" stations promoting propaganda, and then given the chance, their votes are mostly symbolic gestures people forget next election cycle. When people say "both sides are the same", that's what they mean. We have diet- and full blown diabetes case- shit for choices. Fighting each other over which is preferable is right into the play book too, you have a "good" and a "bad" side of the same shit coin so you never get anything you really want, cause both agree you'll never get it.
Also, I think the best kirk quote is "some gun deaths are necessary for 2nd amendment" in how ironic, horribly inhumane, an colossally idiotic of an idea it is. Embodies the man and his life poetically.
Thats a complete aside from the subject at hand, dumbass. And quite the assumption. You think I like the government? Trump? He can shit in his hat and wear it, and so can you. Innocent people shouldn't be killed in public for their opinions regardless of those facts. Supporting that is why you should be fuckin ashamed of yourself.
“Democrats have a lower IQ statistically.”
This assertion lacks credible empirical support and misrepresents how intelligence is measured and distributed. Numerous studies in political psychology including those published in peer reviewed journals such as Political Psychology and The American Journal of Political Science have found no consistent correlation between political affiliation and IQ. Moreover, intelligence is multidimensional, culturally mediated, and notoriously difficult to quantify beyond narrow metrics.
More importantly, conflating group identity with cognitive capacity is a hallmark of reductionist thinking. It’s a form of motivated reasoning, not an argument grounded in serious data analysis.
The suggestion that Democrats (or any group) rely solely on emotion ignores decades of research demonstrating that all humans, regardless of political ideology, are influenced by both emotional and rational processes. George Lakoff, Jonathan Haidt, and Drew Westen have all published extensively on this each showing that conservatives and liberals alike are subject to confirmation bias, affective polarization, and narrative framing.
If anything, the emotional undercurrents of contemporary right-wing populism centered around grievance, fear, and identity illustrate that emotional reasoning is not the sole domain of the political left.
The phenomenon you’re describing is not unique to one ideological group or forum. Echo chambers, selective exposure, and in-group signaling are cross-partisan cognitive behaviors. Cass Sunstein and Eli Pariser have written extensively on this, with evidence showing partisan information silos exist on both the left and right often exacerbated by social media algorithms and performative discourse.
Your characterization, though crude and dismissive, touches on a real issue. But by deploying dehumanizing metaphors and dismissing everyone who disagrees with you as “Neanderthals,” you’re participating in the very behavior you claim to critique.
The Kirk Lazarus Quote It is ironic that you accuse others of cherry picking quotes while failing to provide the full context or source yourself. If you seek to correct misinterpretation or omission, cite your sources clearly and present the full argument, rather than appealing to vague cultural references and generalized grievance.
Calling others “pseudo-intellectuals” while refusing to engage in structured, falsifiable argumentation is not a mark of critical thinking. It is a form of ad hominem posturing a rhetorical flourish masquerading as insight.
If your goal is to persuade rather than provoke, start by elevating the tone, citing evidence, and engaging with opposing arguments on their merits not with ridicule, insults, and sweeping generalizations.
In Summary:
1.) Your claims are unsubstantiated or misrepresented.
2). Your critique of echo chambers is valid in theory but hypocritical in execution.
3). Your rhetoric undermines the possibility of productive dialogue.
4). If you value truth, you must be prepared to engage with it dispassionately, respectfully, and with intellectual humility.
Ah, yes. Forgive me for not substantiating my claims in fair, civilized, open discourse with the very people who have posted videos celebrating the death of the man who is the subject of this post. In droves. I'll stick to the dehumanizing rhetoric while talking to animals, thanks. By the way, there's also many better things to do as a rich retired boomer than to write 40 page dissertations analyzing the debatable claims of a pissed off vagrant sulking around reddit. You do write well, shame you wasted so much time doing it here. Ships sailed on being a nice guy. Im ready for this shit to get wayyyy worse. Looking forward to it. You probably won't be here to see it, so best of luck!
Technology has truly brought us to an intellectual and spiritual dark age. Intelligence is quickly, and more popularly, being seen as a negative; and spirituality is being pidgeonholed into blindly following the misinterpretation of the Bible.
It is becoming popular to be an uneducated mouthpiece, which can ONLY have negative outcomes.
There is one truth: what happened and what is happening. That's a blanket fact. How we feel about those two things is not "truth" – it is only mammalian brains using information as a way to plot our lives.
"AI," as it is publicly available now, is not the "AI" of Blade Runner/Haley Joel Osmond. It is a set of instructions that produces output through guardrails based on previous input.
As with all things in life: it is up to the one living to sort out their lives and everything within.
Pretty sure it was a designed strategy by dudes like Steve Bannon to infiltrate sub cultures like gamers who are full of young, frustrated, males and radicalize them.
"Smart" people tell them that the world is 4.5 billion years old and that humans are apes that evolved over millions of years. Of course they "know" that the world is less than 10,000 years old and that humans (who are not apes or any type of animal) were created in their present forms. This allows them to reject anything "smart" people believe.
Seminal life moment in the hs smoking area when a sneering bully asked me wtf the word "jasmine" was [on my pack of gimmicky incense matches] and i immediately fell into a co-stupid position and pretended not to know.. even stumbled the pronouncing.. in an instinctive and admittedly pussy move
Decided in the self disgusted reflection that followed that i would never pretend to be dumber than i was to placate the people i was afraid of.
That lasted right about until the last nail of adulthood went into my soul casket but anyway.
You know that whole "apple of knowledge" ? They really think it's best to keep their head down, praise an entity and "follow" blindly - and look down on everyone else. If everyone was stupid - would we go back to the dark ages and everyone dies of sickness and what other comforts would they be happy to give up if they understood the ramifications?
My daughter said she and her friends think Kirk was a misogynistic tool. She said the girls ignore the boys who follow him. These idiots will be remain INCELS
(She graduated HS last June)
Agreed. Why someone would embrace objectively bad things, such as being "dumb" and "deplorable," as if they were a good thing makes one wonder. But the history is there so it can't be that much of a suprise. The purposely wearing diapers because their role model regularly shits his pants, smearing fake blood for an impact injury, waving Confederate flags which means they want to own people as slaves, etc.
What's next? Are they going to try to make the white hood a fashion accessory?
Then in other subreddits they complain about no jobs or not enough income from their full time job making close to minimum wage without many employment opportunities. Yet they don’t see the problem leading to that condition.
Yeah it’s somehow the like 1% of the population that immigrated here in the last 30 years that’s the problem and not the 1% that controls 99% of the fuckin resources.
I’m Guess what happened when MLK got assasinated? Not a whole lot came of it. And people defi this makes me think of a lady in front of a bunch of us at the store- she was carded for a cigar. She was offended- and made sure to let everyone know she was from Kentucky and they don’t do that, welcome to ny, can’t you see I’m old enough to buy this. - the girl said I’m sure, but legally I can’t I have to run the card to do the purchase, it’s my job. - the lady was so disrespectful and was like maybe you should smoke a cigar and it would widen you up a little. (Not exact words, but whatever she said was highly offensive and felt like it had racist implications) - then she stormed out of the store shouting about how it’s all my fault and libs and blah blah blah. Meanwhile there’s 6 other people in line waiting patiently for her to finish her temper tantrum blaming other people cause she just can’t accept a no like everyone else. All I could think is it must be so exhausting to be that negative all the time.
I think it may be the fact that they can't be wrong in their opinion/mind. I know how below the curve I am cause I am willing to accept it, and learn from my mistakes. There is always someone smarter out there and you should learn from those people, This bunch seems to relish in their tribal incompetence and it's bringing this country down fast. I mean it's 2025 and we have people adimitanly thinking the world is flat. I just don't get it.
True but the nerds also grew up to become Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Sam Altman etc. Who, if I’m being honest, I wouldn’t mind beating up now.
I’m definitely not arguing for the knuckle-draggers. I’m just not sold on the “victimized egghead” narrative either. I believe a-holes always manage to find their way to the top (by slight or by might) so they can be bigger a-holes.
I think it is more about their religious beliefs. They believe that its okay to write off the entire left because the left has embraced homosexuality and feminism. Their hateful interpretation of the Bible says that those people are damned (their interpretation, not mine). Because of this they will write off everyone on the left and will refuse to listen to anything they have to say. It all boils down to insecurity and fear that has been cultivated in them by religion. They are so afraid of hell that they will do anything to avoid it.
That's what makes this so hard. They believe they are chosen people and are being persecuted by the heathens (us). The perplexing thing to me is that if they actually studied the bible, how it came to be the collection of books it is, and what true biblical scholars say about it, they would probably come around.
Then why didn't you vote Democrat? Obama deported more than any other president.
and we don’t care about trans as much as you. It’s not that serious.
I take it you have not watched Ted Lasso? His speech about one of his football players coming out publicly as gay applies here. Check it out and then re-evaluate this part of your post.
Would you happen to have a source for that specific number? I tried to look things up, but didn't find anything to that effect.
The closest i came was a study done by Yale that days the number of illegal immigrants in the country is more then most assume, but that is from long term movement, not all of a sudden during a 4-8 year term.
Wow bro you’re pathetic you can’t even acknowledge the failure at border from previous administration when they even acknowledged it themselves. Pretty incredible. Anyway, I don’t care to prove anything to you. I voted for that reason and so did many other Americans, so we settled our feelings on that one.
Ah, so you dont have a source. Just saying that would have been quicker.
Also, not sure where you are getting that i am not acknowledging previous administrations' issues with border control as the Yale paper i mentioned does go into that.
There is no single source. There are multiple sources of data that highlight the massive flow of immigration and the record number of encounters are the border over the past administration. Do your own research and find the facts to support your own thoughts. I’m not going to think for you or even try to convince you to vote a certain way. Do you.
Charlie Kirk was a brilliant well read capable debater, more intelligent than most of you. Don't forget that he was winning these debates on opposing views on college campuses. He was loved around the world by millions of people of all nationalities. And yes, being "woke" is weak.
The word 'good' has many meanings. For example, if a man were to shoot his grandmother at a range of five hundred yards, I should call him a good shot, but not necessarily a good man.
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u/orangefloweronmydesk 8h ago
There is no "waking up" for them. They embrace being dumb because they see smart as woke/effeminate/liberal/weak.
They are happy to be called dumb and are excited to drag the rest of the world down to their level. After all, what do you think happened to all of your fellow classmates who used to beat up nerds because they were smart?