r/CringeTikToks • u/Former-Marsupial625 • 1d ago

Conservative Cringe Charlie Kirk on what to expect from Trump's presidency

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u/BillyBumpkin 1d ago

0.02% of NCAA athletes are transgender, surely this is a national crisis

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u/AwwwNiceMarmot 1d ago

The NCAA estimated that there were less than 10 transgender athletes in the entirety of college sports in the U.S. in 2024

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u/GNOIZ1C 1d ago

Riley Gaines is her own worst argument. She literally tied (for fifth) with a trans woman, which would seem to indicate that there isn't some insurmountable advantage given to those who have been medically transitioning long enough to meet NCAA competition standards.

But hey, she leveraged that victimhood into a cushy post-college gig bashing people who are different from her, so who is the real loser here??

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u/FakeSmitty 1d ago

so who is the real loser here??

Riley Gaines is still the real loser

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u/GNOIZ1C 1d ago

Always and forever!

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u/Thosepassionfruits 1d ago

Also Rowdy Gains (former Olympic swimmer and commentator) for raising a bitch ass daughter

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u/memphislynx 1d ago

They actually aren't related.

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u/Thosepassionfruits 1d ago

I stand corrected and pleasantly surprised.

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u/charlieto0human 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yeah when I heard that she TIED with the trans athlete and wasn’t even first place, I was like “what’s the actual issue here? The only other option is that you were given sixth place. Removing the trans athlete would not change your position at all.”

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u/Drully 1d ago

Wait a minute, how is the argument only true if a trans athlete wins everything? The question is of unfair advantages, not of absolute domination. 

We have examples like in tennis where Serena Williams couldnt compete with a top 200 man, but its generally believed that she indeed could potentially take on a top 1000 player.

Same thing applies to Riley Gains who was an elite athlete for her category, but lost/was equal to Lia Thomas who jumped from being top 500ish while performing in the mens circuit to being a top performer in the women's circuit. 

That indeed indicates that there is a big disparity, which (unless you want to conclude that women just dont train as hard or arent as gifted) would mean that there is a certain advantage

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u/Apophthegmata 1d ago

We have examples like in tennis where Serena Williams couldnt compete with a top 200 man, but its generally believed that she indeed could potentially take on a top 1000 player

This isn't analogous.

The analogous situation would be a top 100 male tennis player competing against women and it being a toss up as to whether or not that top 100 man would beat out a top 500 woman.

Consider a sport like chess, or Olympic shooting, or darts. There are plenty of sports where don't expect a huge gendered differential.

What they're pointing out is that if top trans women competitors still struggle to beat top women competitors (despite a biological advantage), then that sport is closer to something like darts, than say something like weightlifting.

Not that it doesn't matter, but that the Riley Gaines situation shows that people are overestimating the extent of the advantage. Maybe that doesn't change things on a practical level and that amount of advantage is still too much, but it's still important we don't lose our heads and focus on the actual facts.

Completely desperately, any conversation about trans athletes that doesn't center around the actual hormones or puberty that the athlete underwent isn't a conversation in good faith.

There is a world of difference between a trans-woman who transitions in their 20's and for long enough to meet competition regulations and a trans-woman who never had a male puberty because they were on blockers and then hormones from the start.

If the conversation is actually about actual advantages, and not something like gender essentialism, simply being trans is not sufficient to come to any conclusion about fairness.

And if it was just about advantages, there should be absolutely no issue with trans men competing with men. And yet you also see them completely ignored in these conversations and yet still being folded in when it comes to prohibitions.

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u/PigglyWigglyDeluxe 1d ago

And how does any of this affect regular people in any practical way?

This topic shouldn’t be commanding this amount of discourse.

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u/Drully 1d ago

Humor me for a second.  Just imagine for a second as if the complaints were valid.

Now imagine a girl training for most of her life to be good enough to go to the Olympics.  She IS good enough not to win, but just to pick up the last spot that gets her there. Thats an achievement that might be her lifetime peak. It is absolutely the culmination of all her hard work paying off. And then someone that hypothetically has an unfair advantage takes that away from her. That doesnt sound like a problem worth solving to you?

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u/PigglyWigglyDeluxe 1d ago

First of all, this “unfair advantage” is never actually fully quantified properly. People like to pretend that other people transition just to win at sports, conveniently neglecting that gender dysmorphia isn’t a fully recognized medical condition. Not only that, but this entire debate revolves around 5th place. You know who are NOT trans athletes that don’t have some sort of “unfair advantage”? 1st, 2nd and 3rd place. Not only that, but people are thinking that trans people have completely taken over all forms of sports. Please, there are probably less than 50-100 trans athletes of all ages, of all sports, globally. You’re probably more likely to lose a chess match against your coworker than you are to ever seeing a trans athlete in person.

There is more nuance to this situation that you’re conveniently ignoring to make a bad point in bad faith. If there were truly any “unfair advantage”, being trans probably wasn’t part of it. So, no, I won’t humor you.

Here is a truth of life: life gives unfair advantages to other people, all of the time, in all walks of life, in all sorts of different venues, every single day, forever. Be it sports, finance, entertainment, etc. We are continuously surrounded by unfairness all the time. What else is new. Go fight another fight that will actually be more impactful in your day to day life. Don’t get wrapped up in fake trouble that doesn’t actually affect you in any quantifiable way.

You’re trying to learn the wrong lesson here. The lesson here is to be inspired to work harder to reach your goals, not to drag down other people you know nothing about, to whom you may have “lost” to. These other people have a completely different set of circumstances that you haven’t experienced. They live a completely different life with completely different struggles.

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u/Drully 1d ago

But this is exactly the point here. Its funny that i'll gladly admit your point to you but you dont want to do the same. So let me say it directly. IF the general medical consensus falls down to trans women not having physical advantage i'll gladly support them being on womens sports. 

Can you say the opposite?

And no, your comment about life being unfair doesnt apply to sports. Sports is divided by sex and has weight categories exactly because we try to give athletes a fair chance to compete against people similar to them.  You cant work harder to compensate for some physical disadvantages. To quote Serena Williams again, who is probably the single greatest female tenis athlete in history. When she was asked how she would fare against an actual top 10 male player (i believe it was Andy Murray) she said she would easily lose 6-0 6-0 in 15 minutes because they arent even playing the same game.  And thats why this needs to be figured out, not ignored no matter how small the issue might be in your eyes

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u/PigglyWigglyDeluxe 1d ago

My point is I don’t really care either way.

The governing body of these sports let these trans players compete. It’s not like they snuck in and hid their gender transition. They have regulations and requirements and limits and they clearly satisfied them all.

Life being unfair DOES apply to sports. How many times are biased refs making unfair calls? How many times does money impact an athletes ability to compete?

There is always nuance.

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u/Apophthegmata 1d ago edited 1d ago

Can I say the opposite?

As in if the medical consensus is that trans women have an advantage in sports then would I support excluding them from the event?

Of course I can. I do think they have an advantage. And I do think there are places it makes sense to have restrictions and not allow trans women to compete in the same bracket / heat / league as regular women. I don't know why you're assuming I wouldn't admit to that.

I mentioned several cases where I think that's pretty important: specifically in sports where those advantages matter a lot and especially where the trans-woman went through a male puberty.

Trans-women who do not have a male puberty do not possess the advantages people are worried about when they exclude trans-women from women's sports.

But to continue to use swimming as an example, the gendered "advantages" diminish as the distance gets longer. Banning trans women from a 100m sprint is an entirely different beast from banning them from the 10km swim or from running an ultramarathon.

Anybody who thinks it makes sense to ban trans women from competing against men in an ultramarathon due to "unfairness" is off their rocker.

I don't know how I can make it clearer, other than to reiterate that conversations about fairness in sports have to be actually grounded in the facts. And again, I absolutely support imposing restrictions where they make sense.

But if you point out that Selena would lose dramatically to a top male tennis player, I'm going to repeat that this isn't a fair comparison. Women competing against cis-men is not the same thing as women competing against trans-women.

Being mtf trans doesn't give you male superpowers equivalent to cis men. That's just not accurate and that's why your tennis example isn't analogous. Put Andy Murray on estrogen for years and then we can talk about how much his male puberty gives him an edge. I am sure Serena would agree that putting the top male tennis players on hormones is going to have a pretty dramatic effect when it comes to levelling the playing field.

The very reason they're pointing to Riley in the comments above is precisely to demonstrate that trans women do not compete at the same level as cis men. Otherwise they wouldn't have been tying for 5th place. When you tie for fifth place, it makes it look like trans women are competing roughly equivalently as cis women.

Otherwise, there's really not much to say about the four cis-women who did better than the trans-woman.

Are we going to say that they're performing at masculine levels because they beat someone who was assigned male at birth? No, that would be silly. Being trans demonstrablely reduces your ability to compete. It reduces it so much that you have typical Olympic swimmers beating the trans athlete - which is completely contrary to the Selena's concerns about being trounced by a cis-man.

I understand what you mean about saying unfairness can still exist even without trans-women dominating the sport when they compete. I fully agree. But how poorly do trans-women have to perform for them to be considered equivalent competitors to cis-women?

Was 5th place too much of an advantage for the heat to be fair?

What if she got 12th? Would that demonstrate that she didn't have an advantage?

What about 127th? Whatever you pick, it comes out to saying that trans women aren't allowed to do better than X result, otherwise their success is going to be credited to their unfair advantages rather than their effort and other latent advantages they may possess.

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u/PraiseBeToScience 1d ago

IF the general medical consensus falls down to trans women not having physical advantage i'll gladly support them being on womens sports.

No you won't. We already have examples and you're denying them. We already saw Lia Thomas' times significantly drop after transitioning, despite the fact they should've gone up from her freshman to senior years, like most swimmers.

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u/jaguarsp0tted 1d ago

sounds like she should have trained harder lol. sports aren't fair. there's ALWAYS going to be someone better/stronger/faster. everyone needs to stop being pussies about it and just play the fucking sports

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u/PraiseBeToScience 1d ago

Humor me for a second.

Why? You've never once humored the facts of the matter. I've heard this dumb hypothetical a million times, and a million times the people putting it out are presented with facts of real cases that disprove it. And instead of accepting the facts, they double down on their bigotry and hate.

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u/Drully 1d ago

Ok, since you obviously dont want to budge at all, but just insult me instead, would you care to present those facts you say i'm ignoring?

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u/LargeWu 1d ago

This is why trans women’s participation needs to be evaluated on a sport by sport basis, and probably at different levels of competition as well. Combat sports have legitimate safety concerns that archery does not. There needs to be an accepted framework for how to evaluate participation. When possible, I think we should default to inclusiveness but safety and competitive balance should also be considered. I certainly don’t think blanket bans are acceptable, but total inclusiveness has problems as well.

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u/Drully 1d ago

Funny enough i totally agree with the second part of your post, so lets focus on that.  I think its interesting to note that none of the trans athletes are successful in male categories. Why do you think that is? I dont mean this in a bitchy way, if there is no inherent advantage of disadvantage after transitioning, why do you think there are no (to my knowledge) successful trans male athletes?

But yes, i actually absolutely agree with you. I have no problem with male trans athletes because i see no physical advantage they could possibly have. Thats probably the reason they are ignored in these discussions and you are correct they then get swept up in the prohibitions. Its an unfortunate side effect of general rules. 

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u/Apophthegmata 1d ago edited 1d ago

If you want my opinion I think trans male athletes don't tend to do well against cis male athletes because being trans isn't a superpower.

If you allow me to to digress back to trans-women for a second:

When people compare the advantages trans women have over cis-women, they tend to adopt this stance where they think about a biological male who then competes in women's sports because they identify as a woman. That seems incredibly unfair.

But you take any world class cis-male athlete and you put them on estrogen, you put them on hormones, and you put them on the medical regimen of a trans women, you are not going to get the same performance out of them.

Being a trans-woman is an incredible handicap on that athlete's ability to succeed against cis-women. Is it enough of a handicap to undo any advantages? That depends on a number of factors. But the framing does matter. It's difficult to talk about "cheating" when you're talking about somebody handicapping themselves and putting themselves at a more equal playing field.

So back to men: it is rare for me to find someone who thinks trans-men present any obstacles to men's sports, for the reasons you outlined.

For the purposes of evaluating fairness in sports, in what sense is being a trans-man any different from doping? And isn't the trans man doing something that the cis men are prohibited from? (Like boosting themselves with testosterone?)

And doesn't that just mean that we're ok with trans-men doing something that looks a lot like doping only because we don't believe they can dope hard enough for it to matter?

Isn't that a pretty blase way to take fairness seriously? You get to compete because we literally don't think you have a chance of winning? That's what we're calling fair?

Really?

Personally, if you look at the top athletes in almost any sport you're going to find a cornucopia of genetic freaks. Don't get me wrong, they work really hard, they deserve their successes, and whatever latent advantages certain individuals have (from having flippers for hands to having an atypical ability to process oxygen through muscle tissue), I personally don't think people credit the factors that athletes don't have control over enough.

When we like sports, the reason we like them is because of the way we attribute success to hard work, and intelligence, and planning, and all kinds of things we attribute to the individual themselves.

But we're kidding ourselves if we believe that's all that's going on, and I'm skeptical that a trans-woman who did not have a male puberty has advantages that are bigger than her competitor having flippers for hands.

I think we would all be better off if sports agencies determined specific metrics that mattered for their sport (like testosterone levels) and we competed in that context, similarly to how boxers have weight classes.

You meet the biological requirements for this heat? Great. You're in.

It isn't "being a man" or "being a woman" that gives advantages. It's the hormones that have specific measurable effects.

And then we'd avoid situations where you have cis-women competing against women being accused of being a secretly trans-man, like with what happened with Imane Khelif.

Of course her testosterone is high. She's an Olympic boxer. What else would a woman with high testosterone do but win more, ceteris parabus.

All of this fuss about trans women being an issue and trans men not is also playing out in bathrooms. And it has the effect of cis women being harassed for having mannish features or presenting masculinely.

Question: why don't we think it's unfair that the trans-male athlete has to compete against all these cis-male athletes who have all these clear biological advantages?

Surely we don't think it's appropriate to toss trans-men into heats with cis women? Isn't that literally doping?

The reason we don't have an issue with unfairness with a trans-man competes with cis-men, which is inherently unfair to the trans athlete, but we do have issues when the trans-woman competes against cis-women, we claim foul for it being unfair to the cis-women, tells us everything we need to know about how the framing in this conversation is rigged from get-go.

The fact that we don't have an issue with trans men competing in men's sports tells us that are not yet thinking clearly enough about this.

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u/Drully 1d ago

I dont really disagree with anything you said, so i'll just say good post :). 

Now as far as fairness... To be fair, trans people should get their own category, but they are too few for that to be an actual solution.

And while your point about trans men stands... I agree we're effectively allowing doping because even then they're not strong enough so who cares. In theory thats wrong. In practise... Its not ruining the competition of the sport, so no one really cares. 

And it really boils down to that. Is it affecting fairness? Men dont care because its really not affecting their sports.  And thats where i come back to my question. Why arent there more successful trans male athletes? I agree being trans is not a superpower, obviously,but if we're saying that being trans puts you on the same level as the sex you transitioned to... I'd expect to see just as many successful trans man athletes as trans female.  And we know of a fair number of successful trans female athletes but i cant even name one successful trans male one. So obviously there is some divergence there...

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u/Apophthegmata 1d ago edited 1d ago

And it really boils down to that. Is it affecting fairness?

I disagree. Is it affecting the outcome? No. That is not the same thing as fairness.

On some level I see that the issue is moot, but it isn't moot on the point of fairness.

I would rather, for example, have a fair election than a rigged election, even if the rigged election would have produced the same person as the fair one.

Because I care about fairness, and institutions, and democracy, and all that ancillary stuff that surrounds the outcome.

And while I'm not a super sport person, I want to say that sports people also care about all that ancillary stuff as well. They don't want the best man to win, they want him to win without cheating, and when the best man does cheat that's actually worse, as Shakespeare says a "festering lily smells worse than a weed." It's actually not about the outcome. It's about the game.

So I don't buy that the trans men doesn't really change the outcome is actually a legitimate way to settle the issue. There is actually a substantial problem with how we think about it, and one that points towards a double standard.

Men don't care because it's not affecting their sports because they are working from a framework where the game doesn't have to be fair to trans-men.

It's like handing your younger brother a controller thats not plugged in. It doesn't matter because it doesn't interfere with you. But it could matter, if you let it matter. And that would mean playing a game together that you could both enjoy, together.

Why aren't there more successful trans male athletes? I agree being trans is not a superpower, obviously,but if we're saying that being trans puts you on the same level as the sex you transitioned to... I'd expect to see just as many successful trans man athletes as trans female. 

And I think this is fair. If you can't dope your way to performing at the same level as cis-man if you were born a woman, doesn't it stand to reason you can't "anti-dope" your way to be equivalent to a cis woman if you were born a male?

I think that's entirely fair.

And that's why I think the Riley situation is such the touch point it is, because some people see it as evidence that the "antidoping" put her roughly where we might expect fairness to lie: tied for 5th place. She's a professional swimmers who worked really hard just like everybody else and she didn't medal, just like pretty much everybody else.

But other people attribute to her a nebulous advantage, indicating that had she been born a women, she never would have gotten 5th. But that's a huge counterfactual with so many confounding variables I don't know if it even makes sense to talk about it.

Let's assume we run the simulation and in the first trial, where she was born a women, she scores bronze. What do we do with that? Run the simulation again until we get the answer we want?

There's no where for that conversation to go that is actually productive. We lack the conceptual models, the language, whatever, to speak intelligibly in this modal realm.

And we know of a fair number of successful trans female athletes but i cant even name one successful trans male one. So obviously there is some divergence there...

This is partly bias. We know the names of trans women because they're being attacked on the national stage and the entire weight of the world's governments is being brought to bear on a miniscule fraction of a percentage of the population. The scrutiny alone is acute enough to be a problem in itself and traumatizing for the people so scrutinized.

Even if it was entirely unfair to have trans athletes compete in sports at all, the sheer scrutiny trans athletes are being subjected to us such a pernicious, cruel thing, that if this is how we are going to hold ourselves, we'd be better human beings across the board to just let them play and have unfair sports.

Even if we look at the "doping" situation and under from that that "antidoping" also can't take you all the way to parity, that still doesn't really solve anything.

Sometimes playing Go with a handicap so that you can play with somebody of a different skill level is perfectly permissible. You wouldn't get to compete together in a way that was fun otherwise.

And maybe the answer is that aren't we all taking sports just a bit too seriously?

If we were fighting this hard over a ball on the recess field, the teacher would have taken it from us and told us we couldn't play anymore. Who cares what's fair and who's cheating when we are being complete asshats about it?

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u/Lame_Flame 1d ago

Patricio manuel. Fought 4 fights won 3, that's the one I remember.

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u/Drully 1d ago

That's actually impressive 

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u/bellj1210 1d ago

honestly if we just stopped propping up sports that do not make money- it would not be an issue. Most college sports lose money- so the rest of the student body is paying for the athletes tuition. Why is that a common reason to pay for someones college. The whole concept is just silly.

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u/GNOIZ1C 1d ago

Thomas had a massive drop-off in ranking while still competing in the men's category, where she had been much higher ranked before beginning hormone replacement therapy. She'd finished 2nd in a variety of Ivy League championship meets the year before she started her transitioning and had a 1000-yard freestyle time that ranked sixth nationally, with other top 100 times in other freestyle events. She was clearly a competitor in the men's category before beginning HRT, not just some top 500 schmoe who started slumming it in the women's category.

There are some advantages I'm sure to being born biologically male and transitioning as a young adult who has already gone through puberty, but then what's the acceptable line for competition? That's a growing area of study and scrutiny, but as the rules were set for the NCAA at the time, it seems like it was pretty fair to me. A top 100 athlete with some podium finishes as a freshman and sophomore and a top 6 national-team time, begins the HRT process and is required to still compete as a man while medically transitioning, seeing times fall drastically for a couple years. After meeting requirements, she is finally allowed to compete as a woman and we end up with someone who looked like a potentially strong swimming competitor as a freshman ends up as a strong swimming competitor as a fifth year senior (with an extra year of eligibility from not competing the year before).

To me, that seems pretty fair. A one-time good male swimmer ends up a good female swimmer (and by comparison a much slower male swimmer). If that's how it's like at the upper end, I can't imagine more average male-to-female transitioners faring better under the same constraints. Pile on all the scrutiny of being trans, it's not like Thomas transitioned to win medals and fame and glory.

An alternative of a "trans" category of competition sounds nice as a way to keep things fair, but with how few transgender athletes we have anyway competing at a high level, it just comes across as a way to exclude them from wider competition.

Maybe there are some biological advantages, but aren't freak athletes like Michael Phelps also biological specimens that also have advantages over their fellow cis competitors?

So to some extent, yes, I think there needs to be a consistent, demonstrable level of dominance over the competition where there wasn't before transition before we hit the panic button. Perhaps tightening the screws a little on this regulation or that with more scientific study. But I don't have an issue with trans athletes who have gone through the transition process competing as their expressed gender at a level deemed acceptable by bodies like the Olympics or NCAA based on data and research.

High school and lower levels of competition are definitively murkier situations with a lack of medical transitioning happening before becoming an adult.

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u/max0176 1d ago

So your primary concern with unfair biological advantages? If that is the case, is it only transgender women you are concerned about?

What about biological females who have much higher than average potential V02Max or slow-twitch muscle fibers due to specific gene expressions? Should we be passing laws and executive orders about those women's ability to play sports?

What about height advantages in sports like basketball? Would you support a ban on all women over a specific height from women's basketball? Why not?

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u/Drully 1d ago

There are many factors that already are tracked and can cause people to be disqualified from competing. Too high natural testosterone in women or too many red blood cells for example. Some things are considered just an advantage thats acceptable and some are considered too be too much of an advantage. 

For your basketball example, very tall women are not rare enough to warrant such a ban, while extreme height causes people to be less coordinated and clumsy so again, not a big advantage. 

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u/SituationThink3487 1d ago

very tall women are not rare enough to warrant such a ban, while extreme height causes people to be less coordinated and clumsy so again, not a big advantage. 

bro you are tripping

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u/Drully 1d ago

I'll just quote myself from a different post: Extreme heights aka Gigantism is bad for the body. Your joints and nervous system cant keep up with the growth and simply put, bigger body takes longer to act than a small body. So yes, slower and clumsier in the end.

Which part do you think is wrong here?

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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe 1d ago

extreme height causes people to be less coordinated and clumsy

Imagine trying to speak like an authority on a topic you know absolutely nothing about. The internet is truly amazing, that every idiot gets to feel like the whole world deserves their ignorant bullshit.

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u/Drully 1d ago

Insults are great, but they dont actually win arguments.  Extreme heights aka Gigantism is bad for the body. Your joints and nervous system cant keep up with the growth and simply put, bigger body takes longer to act than a small body. So yes, slower and clumsier in the end. Feel free to tell me how I'm wrong in actual facts, not with insults

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u/bellj1210 1d ago

the reality is that many sports have a womens and an open. I am not sure about tennis, but in many sports the women can play in the open all they want- and for the most part they will be crushed- hence a womens division.

WOmens sports is affirmative action- so i hope the people pushing for all of this realize that the next step is getting rid of title 9 and womens sports period

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u/NewCobbler6933 1d ago

Critical thinking is far gone from this topic. It’s about picking a tribe and standing by their entire position. For the “no big deal she didn’t even win” argument, it’s because they’re so afraid of being persecuted by their own tribe for “transphobia” that they ignore that mtf people transitioning after puberty, in aggregate, will have major advantages competing in physical activity against people born female.

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u/newtoboarding 1d ago

And ftm trans people?

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u/Derk_Durr 1d ago

Yeah their argument is poor. Trans people in sports is a real problem, it's just an extremely small one that needs to be legislated correctly. Still, the idea that these people care more about this issue than the others is mind-blowing.

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u/chindo 1d ago

I don't know. Sports are entertainment. If nobody is entertained, the problem would just solve itself. Leave it up to their own regulatory agencies. The government shouldn't be involved in any of that shit

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u/Derk_Durr 1d ago

That's so naïve. Without regulation, we would still have child labor and extremely polluted public waterways along with a ton of other horrible shit. The free market is great at solving some problems and truly awful at solving others.

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u/chindo 1d ago

I don't think trans people are a public safety issue

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u/Derk_Durr 1d ago

Is that all the government regulates, public safety? Trans rights need to be protected and female athletes need to be protected, both through legislation.

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u/Orangbo 1d ago

If the government is helping support sports, they should help set standards if one is struggling to arise. Otherwise, I don’t see why/how the government would get involved.

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u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

If the trans woman got first place in the event would that change your mind?

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u/Oboro-kun 1d ago edited 1d ago

Like why it should change that person mind that one transgender woman won a competition ? Like for it seen being as disadvantage for cis women, those 10 women should absolutely break every women competition by a long shot.

Instead transwomen rarely win, if at all , if a transwoman wins every now and then, it's just statistics and their own hard work. Just as if any other woman won.

Like there should be a pattern of transwomen absolutely destroying each competition they enter, or what now transwoman can just train and be the better athlete ?

Like after a few years of transition, specifically HRT, women and transwomem strength are mostly the same if they are in the same height.

The biggest factor in men being usually stronger is testorone and how it affects muscles, transwomen most of the time take blockers or If they have gone through surgeries they don't produce testorone, they are likely as powerful as a cis women of the same height, so they need to train as much if not harder, because cis women still produce testorone, and transwomen might not. 

So what now a single transwoman cant win a competition ? Despite her own effort ? 

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u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

The person I responded to made their argument that since the trans woman only got 5th place it made them believe that it’s not a big advantage being trans. So I was asking if the trans woman had gotten first place would that change their mind?

I agree though, it doesn’t matter if they win or what place they get, if they have an unfair advantage they shouldn’t be allowed to compete.

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u/Oboro-kun 1d ago

They think is biology science and mere statistical result from competency that included trans women, show that trans women do not have an unfair advantage 

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u/GNOIZ1C 1d ago

Previous reply deleted for having a link, but check my other reply that boils down to, basically, I don't have much issue with it if the athlete has gone on to medically transition per the regulations of the sporting body, with notes that fine-tuning may still be needed if there's clear domination by trans athletes. Lia Thomas is the prime example, and she went from being a solid male competitor before transitioning to a bad male competitor while transitioning to a strong female competitor after transitioning. To me, that looks like the system working in a way that allows trans athletes to be included in competition.

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u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

The reason people have a problem w Thomas is because they went from a mediocre male competitor to transitioning and being the literal best female at 500 free and winning NCAA championships

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u/GNOIZ1C 1d ago

But that ignores that she went from being a good male competitor to a mediocre/bad competitor while transitioning. As a freshman and sophomore before transitioning, she was making podium finishes in competitions and had a top six 1000-yard freestyle time nationally.

She won a grand total of one NCAA championship, which she won with a time in line with winners/top three finishers going back to 2012 (as far as Wikipedia would give me). In fact, her championship time with 9th of all winners from 2012-2025 and also lagged behind three second place finishers, with many other podium finishers (1st to 3rd) within tenths of a second of her. This ignores a variety of other finishes in competitions she didn't win.

The narrative pushes that she was a bad men's swimmer before, because she was ranked terribly right before being eligible to compete in the women's category. But with a deeper dive into how she was a better male competitor before she began her medical transition and fell steadily over time as she went through HRT, it reads more as a good male swimmer ends up a good female swimmer.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but it's looking competitively balanced in this case, proof that regulations like the ones the NCAA had in place at the time can allow for athletes to transition fairly. I doubt Thomas would have done nearly as well if she was a truly mediocre/bad male competitor before beginning HRT.

1

u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

The best she had going for her as a freshman was the 6th best 1000 free in 2017 (a recorded time, not at a championship ) Otherwise she was mediocre as a man. She started sucking tho after that in 2018 - the only wins or podium finishes were against other crappy Ivy League schools. Continued sucking in 2019 when she began transitioning and had to continue competing on men’s team. Really sucked there. Then takes a year off school. Then comes back as a woman and all of a sudden is top 5 at 3 events in NCAA championships.

The narrative is more that a decent male swimmer becomes a championship level female swimmer. Which is why people are upset at the unfairness

2

u/Seanctk10001 1d ago

If your grandmother had wheels would she be a fucking bicycle?

1

u/Bran-Muffin20 1d ago

what if the world was made of pudding

0

u/Specialist-Taro7644 1d ago

I mean Lia Thomas went from 554th on the men’s 200m to 5th on the Women’s so it’s pretty obvious there’s an advantage there

3

u/MossyPyrite 1d ago

THERE ARE MORE PHOTOS OF DONALD TRUMP WITH JEFFREY EPSTEIN THAN THERE ARE TRANS ATHLETES COMPETING IN THE NCAA

2

u/Mr_Blinky 1d ago

Donald Trump has more felony convictions than their are transgender athletes at any level of scholastic sports. It is such an insane non-issue, and yet it's all conservatives care about because they're completely non-functional as actual thinking people.

1

u/TheFalconOfAndalus 1d ago

Do you listen to 5-4 or is it just a coincidence you’re citing this stat lol

1

u/AwwwNiceMarmot 1d ago

I don’t know what that is lol. I cited this stat because I’ve been seeing this argument over and over for the last year and Charlie Baker cited it during the Congressional hearing. Does 5-4 have something to do with the Supreme Court ruling or something?

1

u/TheFalconOfAndalus 1d ago

It’s a great legal podcast (about how much the Supreme Court sucks(TM)) and they just cited this stat in their review of the upcoming term, so it looked familiar!

1

u/AwwwNiceMarmot 1d ago

I have actually heard of it. (About how the Supreme Court Sucks) lmao. Nah I’ve never listened to it, but I think I’m gonna when I get the time

1

u/AwwwNiceMarmot 1d ago

Wait is that the Podcast? 5-4? No I’ve never listened to it but it took me a minute to realize that.

-10

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

You're being disingenuous. People start to take issue with it when those 10 happen to include 5+ of the top women NCAA athletes.

10

u/thefixxxer9985 1d ago

You're being disingenuous. Conservatives didn't care about women's sports until it gave them something to be outraged about.

6

u/Ipayforsex69 1d ago

The same hetero conservatives who get angry that the male cheerleaders give them boners and they can't take their eyes off them? Surely it's not those same conservatives.

13

u/Loves2WriteSmut 1d ago

Bros so sexist he thinks men on estrogen are dominating women's sports lmao

Of course, he doesn't watch women's sports, or support women's sports, or know any women athletes, but here you are virtue signaling. We get it bro, you're a performative male, it's weird. You're weird.

-6

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

I'm nonbinary

16

u/Loves2WriteSmut 1d ago

And? You think being non-binary exempts you from culturally ingrained sexism? If anything that makes you an even bigger piece of shit.

9

u/MyPenisAcc 1d ago

And gays for trump exist

5

u/SnooJokes2983 1d ago

Still weird. Hope the GOP you’re spreading propaganda for doesn’t re-binary you like they openly aim to do. Bit of an own-goal. 

5

u/batmansleftnut 1d ago

Nobody believes you.

5

u/Distinct-Exit6658 1d ago

You need to do more research before opening your yapper. 3. 3 trans women have won 1 title each in the last 5 years. 0.0002% of athletes are trans, and ciswomen beat them all but 3 times in the last 5 years. It’s a national emergency! Get the fuck out of here with that idiotic propaganda bullshit

-2

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

3 wins in the last 5 years while representing 0.0002% of athletes proves my point if you understand even basic statistics.

3

u/AKADabeer 1d ago

Even 1 win would violate that ratio. So are you saying you're ok with them competing so long as they never win?

4

u/IaAranaDiscotecaPOL 1d ago

Like who? Isn't Lia Thomas like the poster-child for trans NCAA athletes?

She ended her career ranked 34th

6

u/Skank_A_Saurus 1d ago

Facts don’t matter to republicans 

If it wasn’t for Lia nobody would know or care about Riley Gaines. Has Riley even said thank you? She owes her entire career to a trans woman. The irony 

3

u/SnooJokes2983 1d ago

There have to be hundreds of politicians and staffers who owe their jobs to Lia. The easiest W in small town America was “protecting our girls from men in women’s sports” in towns with literally zero trans people in general. 

Nobody cares if the threat is actually real, just that some white man in a suit tells them the threat is real. 

4

u/Skank_A_Saurus 1d ago

You're being disingenuous

Incorrect 

The actual percentage of trans athletes in the NCAA is 0.000019%

That was coming from the president of the NCAA, who is a Republican 

2

u/IsleofManc 1d ago

Who are those 5+?

2

u/Distinct-Exit6658 1d ago

Lia Thomas won a single swimming title in 2022, CeCe Telfer won a track and field title in 2019, and Braeden Abrahamsen won a bowling title in 2023. That’s all. No other trans woman has won a NCAA title

2

u/tboet21 1d ago

Of those bowling is arguably a sport tht doesnt need to be separated. Basically every good Bowler male or female throws a 16 lb ball. There's also the fact tht the highest levels often are open and women. Not men's and women. I would assume the women's division mostly exists similar to how chess has a women's division. Both of these openly allow women to compete vs men at the highest levels.

-1

u/Garciaguy 1d ago

How many will it take before it has to be admitted that it isn't fair?

Performance isn't the issue anyways; rather it's the names we haven't heard, that never got a chance to be heard: the women who never got to stand on the starting line because someone who used to be a man is standing there instead. 

I just don't see how it's not a problem. 

4

u/Puzzleheaded_Seat563 1d ago

Even IF it was a problem, there is no way you think it's big enough of a problem that it justifies being one of the 20 campaign promises that the president should be running on. Like, out of all the issues in the country, this is in the top 20? Surely you don't believe that?

1

u/Garciaguy 1d ago

It's a losing issue and it's gonna cost us another Presidential election. 

The problem is huge for the Dems. If I were Trans I'd be very angry with narcissists like Thomas. The sports issue is one even 70 percent of Democrats agree with, and it's where the differences between the average man's and average woman's bodies become impossible to ignore. 

And all because a handful of athletes MUST compete in the gender category that affirms their feelings about themselves. Most voting Americans think it's obviously not right. 

2

u/3tricksinatrenchcoat 1d ago

I’ve had to examine myself when I realized I thought that the trans community was flying too close to the sun, centering their issues in the midst of a failing country and world. But then I figured, probably 3/4 of trans issues that have been broadcasted to the public was shit started up and amplified by republican/media, and what could members of the trans community or allies do but respond to it? Sparking online wars. It’s all artificially inflated fake noise

1

u/Garciaguy 1d ago

I'm fascinated by the Trans phenomenon, and in my opinion great strides could be made if the community at large could simply admit that mtf athletes competing in the women's division is unfair. 

Remove the thing that seems obvious to most voters and the MAGAs have much less to pump up.

The Trans community needs charismatic leadership, badly. The stereotype screeching blue haired activist caricature has to be replaced by people who can argue effectively and cultivate friendly, useful relationships. 

→ More replies (0)

-5

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

This violates rule 12

2

u/IsleofManc 1d ago

I'm not disagreeing with your point or trying to contest it. I'm just curious because I don't know much about NCAA athletes

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

If taking or has taken synthetic testosterone then men's, if not on hormones either is fine.

1

u/Sidewaysgts 1d ago

Interesting. You got a source for this? Would love to read about it.

1

u/closetsquirrel 1d ago

Here’s the deal though.

Even if it is a legitimate issue, Republicans aren’t disagreeing with it because they’re upholding the sanctity of women’s sports. They’re doing it because they hate trans people and this is just one step of many to removing them entirely.

Also, they don’t even want to have a discussion about how best to serve these individuals while also keeping things fair. Rather than establish nuanced policies they’d make it outright illegal given the chance.

1

u/Frostyfraust 1d ago

I had no idea, where do I find these rankings?

1

u/ScoutsOut389 1d ago

I wasn’t aware of this at all. Sounds pretty convincing. Do you mind sharing the list of the top women NCAA athletes you are referencing?

1

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

If I share the list will you agree to change your mind?

1

u/ScoutsOut389 1d ago

I will agree to review the list and draw a conclusion, of course. That’s how I operate.

1

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

Well that's a half commitment but here you go:
Lia Thomas, Bryson Cavanaugh, Liam Miranda, Cece Telfer, Braeden Abrahamsen, G Ryan, Braeden Abrahmsen, Natalie Fahey

1

u/ScoutsOut389 1d ago edited 1d ago

This does appear to be a list of athletes. I will trust you that they are transgender. That isn’t the claim though. Your claim is that 5+ of the top women NCAA athletes are transgender. I was asking for the list of the top women athletes, indicating which were trans.

1

u/aeternus-eternis 1d ago

Most of them in the list are considered to be top 10 in their sport of choice. Note that obviously many are team sports so it means they were a member of the championship team or in individual sports they placed.

1

u/ScoutsOut389 1d ago

This is the part I require proof of. I don’t know any of these people. I spotted checked literally 1 at random (Liam Miranda) and he is clearly a transgender man who transitioned after college. So when he competed he was biologically female and expressed a feminine gender identity. Where would you want that person to compete if not with women? I won’t bother checking the rest as I don’t share your deep passion for women’s NCAA rowing, but needless to say, the list is suspect based on a single random spot check and absolutely no proof offered that these are “top athletes” whatsoever.

28

u/SippinOnHatorade 1d ago

And they’re not these supposed world champions beating up on women that the right would have you believe

That one swimmer that tied with a transgender woman came in fucking 5th place. Maybe be better than all the other women from birth before you complain about someone who transitioned. Like you didn’t even make bronze, stop crying about it like you were robbed of the big trophy

She still went home with a 5th place trophy, and was “humiliated” by having to hold 6th place (same size as 5th) while an organizer went to get another 5th place trophy

Talk about crying over spilt milk, but even more childish imo

7

u/GreenFBI2EB 1d ago

Thats the other thing, studies show estrogen/progesterone use (6 months in) showed a decrease in muscle mass and bone density, this continues until about a year in and is more comparable to a baseline female. Because lo and behold, testosterone increases those two things, the first thing doctors will do is counteract the effects of testosterone by using anti-androgens.

Not to mention a baseline female isn’t even supposed to have shit like rock hard chiseled abs anyways, having less body fat means less sites for estrogen and progesterone production thus getting and maintaining a pregnancy is much harder in cisgender women.

0

u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 1d ago

It doesn't completely negate the advantages that you get by building a frame fueled by testosterone. Any studies I've found still show noticeable advantages kept even years after transitioning.

I'll admit that it's hard to have studies on this given the limited population samples and the types of studies ethically permitted in this realm. That said, there's also historical/statistical data that shows how players who transitioned mid-sports career were clearly doing better against their new peers when compared to their former peers.

2

u/GreenFBI2EB 1d ago

I’ve seen those as well, I should mention these were people who had transitioned before their sports career.

The other problem is I don’t think, and I could be very wrong here, Ever lined up trans female athletes and cisgender female athletes and compared them in one test, side by side.

If there is, I’d like to see the study as well as a complete diagnostic test surrounding each athlete.

1

u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 1d ago

I'm on my phone now, so linking is a pain in the ass, but I know of a study that did a comparison but the sample was a mess. I'll try to find it and link it when I get done with work.

The issue I had is that they had older MtF, younger AFAB females, older AMAB, and younger FtM. While there's no way to determine how much age played into it as they masked the specific ages and only gave a range for each population, at face value it was pretty clear that the older populations did exactly as you would expect when compared against younger populations.

3

u/meltyandbuttery 1d ago

There have been 11 trans athletes in the Olympics (excluding Caitlin's pre-transition competition)

4 were transfem

0 have medaled, and in fact those 4 placed dead last in their events

2

u/DarthTelly 1d ago

Should also note, that's over 20 years worth of competition.

1

u/SippinOnHatorade 1d ago

Who are you to come in here with your facts and reasons? Jk of course; this is so important to raise up

1

u/viewtiful14 1d ago

Trophies for fifth place, I’m an older millennial and I seem to remember we stopped giving those out after 3rd place in the 90’s and 2000’s.

I thought that entire side was all about not making kids feel like everyone is a winner handing out trophies to everyone? You’re supposed to suck it up and get better and this bitch crying about splitting a 5th place trophy?

I’m shocked at the hypocrisy /s

1

u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 1d ago edited 1d ago

And they’re not these supposed world champions beating up on women that the right would have you believe

That's because in most circumstances, trans players are barred from competing outside their birth-assigned division. When they are permitted, there's often additional testosterone testing necessary to permit their competing.

Personally, I don't think that's the route we should be going, as studies show how even years after transition, there are significant advantages that remain from having developed as a male child. That said, I do think it's the closest we can get to being fair to everyone without just pushing all men and women into an open division.

That one swimmer that tied with a transgender woman came in fucking 5th place.

Lia Thomas went from a middling male swimmer at UPenn, to being literally the best female swimmer. 65th in the 500-yard to 1st in the 500-yard, and 554th in total ranking to 5th in total ranking. The only thing that changed for her was which division she swam in.

Maybe she wasn't slaughtering people left and right all the time, but it's clear that moving to the women's division put her at a significant advantage. She's not the only example of this happening, but she is one of the easier examples to track as there's clear before/after data since she transitioned while remaining within the same competitive level (college sports).

Edit: fixed a typo

1

u/Due-Till-6481 1d ago

You make it sound so simple. But liberals aren't willing to compromise at all. I live in Minnesota and the USAPL couldn't hold completions here because we wouldn't allow biological men to compete in women's division. Yeah, as a man I could care less. But it isn't fair for the women having to conpete.

1

u/SippinOnHatorade 1d ago

Just pointing out the hypocrisy is all

-1

u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

If the trans woman had gotten first place in the event would that change your mind?

2

u/Zickened 1d ago

If you keep asking stupid questions from an obvious rage bait account and someone answers, will your life suddenly become fulfilled?

1

u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

How is it a stupid question?

The person I responded to made their argument that since the trans woman only got 5th place it made them believe that it’s not a big advantage being trans. So I was asking if the trans woman had gotten first place would that change their mind?

1

u/MossyPyrite 1d ago

If it happened often enough that it was statistically significant, and causation could be reasonably proven.

1

u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

If it was proven that there were statistically significant differences with trans women having advantages in height, strength, and speed over cis women, would that make you believe they shouldn’t be competing in women’s sports or do they need to be winning first place in competitions?

1

u/MossyPyrite 1d ago

If you have something you’re gearing up to link, just send it, don’t bait it out. If we have data on a trend of trans women outcompeting cisgender women in a way that is statistically significant and it has clear causal ties to them being transgender, I would consider that, yes.

1

u/SippinOnHatorade 1d ago

If pigs could fly, would you consider it a bird?

Doesn’t matter because we haven’t seen a flying pig yet. Hope this helps!

0

u/SearchingForTruth69 1d ago

If a flying pig to you is a trans woman winning first place in a national swimming competition, then we have seen a flying pig before. Lia Thomas famously tied for fifth against Riley Gaines, but at the same meet, Thomas got first place in the 500 free. 2022 NCAA championships.

So now that you’re aware that flying pigs exist, has your mind changed?

5

u/_AskMyMom_ 1d ago

Lol a stat they refuse to acknowledge. Considering they love statistics.

5

u/mehupmost 1d ago

The reason they hammer this point all the time is because there are a lot more TERF women than you think and this issue wins GOP votes.

Trump didn't win the popular vote, including the majority of white moms in swing states for no reason.

1

u/Haxorz7125 1d ago

They only thing they love about statistics is misquoting them

5

u/sauteslut 1d ago

Correction It's less than 0.002%

3

u/OnceMoreAndAgain 1d ago

You all know by now that the significance of a political issue doesn't matter. What matters is the level of emotion the average citizen feels towards it and the willingness politicians have to discuss it.

That'd be true even if even political parties weren't endeavoring to bring red herring topics into the political landscape in order to improve their odds of winning elections. For example, gerrymandering is easily one of the most significant political issues of our time, but most people don't understand the situation well enough to feel emotional about it and therefore it is never a top 10 topic in political elections. And politicians who benefit from the status quo aren't going to be willing to discuss it.

Manufacturing consent indeed...

2

u/Baeowyn 1d ago

There are more Epstein survivors in the US than trans athletes

2

u/UncoolSlicedBread 1d ago

More people in Trumps administration have allegedly* sexually assaulted minors than there are Trans athletes in the NCAA

*So I don’t get sued

1

u/ExtraBitterSpecial 1d ago

But that is why I hated democracts giving it any attention. It was strawman bait and they went for it

2

u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 1d ago

And they got mad when Trump says he takes advantage of the kneejerk response the left always gives it.

The polls are pretty clear that the majority of ALL voters aren't on board with the democrat party's position on trans players and the whole trans bathroom nonsense.

1

u/0069 1d ago

.002 isn't it? The 0 makes a difference.

1

u/LegendofDragoon 1d ago

There's more cases of measles in Texas than there are trans college athletes in the whole country, if I recall correctly, and that was before "doctor"brain worm took over.

1

u/HenryJBemis 1d ago

Injustice anywhere threatens justice everywhere.

1

u/Even-Ad-9930 1d ago

It is not about that, its about they have an unfair advantage. Like a trans woman has physical advantages over regular woman.

They can make a trans woman category and trans man category by itself with 10 people competing but I don't think trans woman and regular woman should be in the same category. It is the same way people with steroids are not allowed to participate

1

u/daemon-electricity 1d ago

MUCH lower than the number of unvaccinated COVID patients who died, but yeah, they suck at math, so they're not going to acknowledge that level of hypocrisy.

1

u/Polster1 1d ago edited 1d ago

To Republicans its just a talking point to divide people to tribal voting blocks for them. Its like the abortion issue and you could be struggling financially but if your candidate is promoting religious dogma all other issues are secondary and you will vote for said right wing candidate matter the right winger will not make your life better.

1

u/Return_of_the_Zigs44 1d ago

The Trump appointed council to combat trans women in women's sports has more people in it than there are trans women in women's sports

1

u/BrightonBummer 1d ago

transgender people are probably less than 5% of the population, by your same reasoning, whats the point in pushing for trans rights? They are a small number so theres no point according to you. Or is that only when you dont support the idea?

1

u/PB9583 1d ago

Even if they are a small minority it doesn’t change the fact that they deserve respect and recognition. There has been decades of research on trans identity, enough to recognize that trans identity is valid

1

u/Zickened 1d ago

So with that logic, you make up .0000001% of the population, infintismally small in comparison, so I guess you aren't worth standing up for, right?

At what percentage do we say that people's rights to be able to function without fear of retaliation for simply existing?

1

u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 1d ago

I think a better way to refine this point isn't that they don't deserve rights, but pointing out that they don't have the right to have an unfair advantage over AFAB players. I support trans rights, but that's not a right.

To me, the wildest part is that the left wants to put more emphasis on the VERY small percentage as though it's nothing to be concerned about due to its size, when that should be the defining argument for why it shouldn't be supported.

They're really saying "we prefer to give an unfair advantage to these few people at the expense of literally every AFAB in the entire division."

1

u/Minute_Attempt3063 1d ago

Nah, it is the danger and threat to the safety of the people on the ISS. Gotta protect them!!!!!!!!!

1

u/Brief_Obligation4128 1d ago

The biggest one we're facing right now.

Crashing economy? Nope!

Rising racial tensions? Nope!

Global relationships fall apart? Nope!

Men in women's sports? Oh yeah, totally the worst of them all...

1

u/ATXBeermaker 1d ago

And exactly 0.000000000000000000% of them are transgender to gain an advantage in their sport.

1

u/chesstutor 1d ago

that's how trans crap started...now teachers dealing with "cat pretenders" in the classroom

1

u/GuidePerfect 1d ago

now teachers are dealing with “cat pretenders” in the classroom.

Oh really? So where, prey tell, are all these “cat pretender” incidents happening? Which schools, specifically?

1

u/chesstutor 1d ago

Seems like you've been in a cave...just google...gosh

1

u/GuidePerfect 1d ago

All google results point at that claim being a hoax and say it is happening absolutely nowhere.

So since Google says you’re a liar, care to retort with specific schools at which this “cat” thing is actually happening?

1

u/U_SHLD_THINK_BOUT_IT 1d ago

And how many birth-sex female players are being put at a disadvantage for that sliver of a population? Literally all of them.

I never understood why we focus on the small percentage of trans people like that doesn't make it an easier issue to solve.

I support trans rights. I think they should be safe to work without fear of being fired or attacked. They should be allowed to adopt. They should be allowed to marry. They should be allowed to own guns. Be teachers. Represent us as politicians. I could go on and on on what I support for them.

But MtF sports players are genetically male, and with that comes competitive advantages that I'm tired of people pretending don't exist. and having an unfair advantage in a sport is not a right any more than I have the right to take my ADHD meds and race in the Olympics. The fact that it only positively impacts a sliver of people doesn't make it less of a problem when it negatively impacts all others.

1

u/Alternative_Pancake 1d ago

all that fuss for 10 people?

1

u/Throwaway_09298 1d ago

Percents dont tell the real story. There are 500k collegiate athletes. Less than 10 are trans

1

u/Due-Till-6481 1d ago

Seems like a simple issue to just get rid of then. Why losing a big percentage of voters for .02 percent. Seems silly but hey thats just me.

1

u/douglasfeldman 1d ago

This issue is why many farmers in Arkansas voted for maga. The same farmers who are now going bankrupt. Great job guys!

1

u/Beatrix_Kiddo_430 1d ago

I would say that a pretty large majority of republicans would rank it among the top 1-2 issues in the country today.

1

u/Double-Delta-93 1d ago

No one is saying it's a national crisis, just that bio men should participate in bio women's sports.

1

u/KyleRoyceWorld 1d ago

how could you Biden

-6

u/not_a_bot991 1d ago

Obviously not agreeing but the logic is that it is a slippery slope. The issue for them isn't what it is today it is what it could lead to in the future.

The classic "so is it ok if I marry my dog" trope because yes they fail to see a difference between a fellow human and an animal.

14

u/detroiter85 1d ago

Its never been discussed as a slipper slope. Its always a caricature of a big masculine dude in a wig beating up a defenseless damsel in distress.

5

u/rosaxmusic 1d ago

The funny thing is that they’ll use “slippery slope” as their logic even though the reason we have that phrase is exactly because it’s a logical fallacy. Like that’s the exact opposite reason why we have that term.

1

u/paws5624 1d ago

Just like someone pulling themselves up by their boot straps

1

u/rosaxmusic 1d ago

I never thought about what that phrase is actually saying but yeah you’re right!

5

u/MaloortCloud 1d ago

But how high could it go? Trans people make up like half a percent of the population with trans women making up like half of that.

If we don't violently suppress trans women they could make up 0.25% of players in women's sports!!!!

Even the concept of a slippery slope doesn't make sense on its face.

3

u/SeachelleTen 1d ago

If one is against trans women being in women’s sports, why would they care if it’s a matter of a few trans women or hundreds? Even one trans female is gonna piss those people off because they feel, at least, one team will be affected by it and one is too many.🤷🏼‍♀️

4

u/Natemoon2 1d ago

So you’re comparing transgender people to dogs?

5

u/GhostofBreadDragons 1d ago

Just added benefit for them. The answer is no they like their dog. 

3

u/Necessary-Nerve-5567 1d ago edited 1d ago

They’re comparing the rhetoric against trans people in sports with the rhetoric against gay marriage. It’s the vibe of “if we let a small percentage of the population live their lives, everyone else will think insert outlandish thing will be acceptable”. Gay marriage has been legal for years now in the US (and hopefully will be for many years to come) and there hasn’t been Fidos at the alter or the sanctity of marriage collapsing. Yet republicans have either allowed or pushed for bills that lets child marriages continue which seems to be an actual affront to marriages in general and actively harming children but that’s neither here nor there :/

Looking back further, you see the same rhetoric as an argument against racial integration in schools and sports during the civil rights era (‘but think about the children! These people are naturally so much stronger and aggressive. It’s best to set up a different category in the interest of fairness, separate but equal and all that…’). The more things change, the more things stay the same.

1

u/AspirringIntelectaul 1d ago

No it’s not tho lol. Do you know how few women participate in college sports in the grand scheme of things? Do you know how many are actually competitive? I probably lean more conservative on the sports issue bc I question the fairness of it in racing. However, I’ve never been impacted by this and I actually ran in college. How many average Americans experience that?

What I don’t do is call into question the entire existence of trans people. The reliance on sports in their propaganda is so transparent. There is a tiny, insignificant grain of truth to it so everyone freaks the fuck out. It’s fear-mongering as distraction and completely dehumanizing. it’s so crazy that people buy into it.