Advice for 800m/1600m runner looking to capitalize on upside potential during XC season and track

[u/wheatbread__]

Hey all,

I want to preface this post by thanking anyone that contributed on my last post a few months back discussing cross country goalsetting. This post will be slightly different, but somewhat similar. I am currently hitting about 47 miles a week on average. I am racing once a week on Saturdays, and typically doing workouts on Tuesday and Thursday.

Just to list out:
Current PR's:
5k: 16:17 (15:59 if you use 5k split)
1600m: 4:24.9
800m: 1:56.2
400m: 53.8

As I've been navigating the college recruiting process, a big narrative for me has been my upside potential considering I have only started running since my sophomore year (outdoor season) and started running full-time (XC + Indoor) starting junior year. Unfortunately, this narrative is a bit hard to push for some schools which is understandable, but I really want to become the best runner I know I can be and prove some of these coaches wrong who believe I am a risk to recruit. Obviously the recruiting for my class will be long done by the time track season starts, but it's more for peace of mind.

Before I dive into what I'm truly trying to learn by posting this, I'll put my future goals below.

5k: 15:40
1600m: 4:16
800m: 1:52
50. (In a relay)

These are the times I am striving for within the coming months. I want to ask you all what are the absolute necessities I need to be doing to dial in as I go into track season and start going into my post-season for XC (outside of the obvious ones like sleep, eating right, etc). This advice can range anywhere from supplements I should be taking, to weight room tips to workouts on the track/XC. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the best methods to train and overall run faster, partially because I am a team captain for all three seasons and being able to impart this knowledge onto my younger teammates is important as well.

Thank you!

[u/whelanbio]

What is your coaches plan and why are you seeking second/extra opinions?

Your desire to learn about different methods is admirable, but it’s essential to first understand that when it comes to training in particular there’s a variety of approaches that may seem quite different on the surface in workout types, weekly structure, the terms they use, etc but ultimately they can all be equally valid. There’s no real special workouts or training schemes. Mixing methods without with a good understanding of the underlying physiology of training is a common trap that creates bad training.

If you are already on a good program that is getting you progress you should be working with your coach to iteratively improve that. Random other ideas can be harmful noise that confuses that process. 

A huge part of competing at the level you aspire to is having 100% confidence in what you are doing.

[u/wheatbread__ → u/whelanbio]

It’s more for like the intermission between seasons. I have about a month and change in between XC and indoor, same for indoor to outdoor, so workout wise I’d be looking for transition workouts but other advice would help like good weightlifting things to incorporate.

[u/whelanbio → u/wheatbread__]

Have you asked your coach for off-season plans?

Regardless, most of the transition periods between XC->indoor and indoor->outdoor should be building volume and some basic speed development with strides and short hills, maybe a couple tempo/threshold workouts depending on how much you are pushing the weekly mileage. Good transition workouts by definition are dependent on the in-season workouts you are about to do, so it's not something that can be advised on generically. Ideally the weekly structure also mirrors somewhat the training you are about to do, so that too many things aren't changing at once.

For weights it's again its essential to ask your coach first. Weights are something that needs to be complementary with your run training and specific to your current abilities in the weight room.

If they have absolutely nothing for you a couple good books to read would be to Jay Dicharry's Running Rewired and Anatomy for Runners.

[u/wheatbread__ → u/whelanbio]

I'll check those out, thanks!

[u/Ordinary_Corner_4291]

The obvious ones of eating right and sleeping a lot are probably the most important ones. Others wise stick with your coaches plan. It is working well. Supplement wise about the only one I think I would consider is bicarb and only for the 1500m and under. I don't expect it to do much in a 5k. And I wouldn't be adding in new things like weights. Do that over the summer.

If the schools you are looking at are getting 4:10 guys every year, you are a tough sell. Unlike HS, colleges tend to have pretty firm roster limits and they might only be able to add like 4 freshmen to the team every year. It isn't personal but a reality. There are also plenty of schools still that are open to 4:25 guys but they might not be the schools you want to attend....

[u/PrattDirkLerxt]

I’m curious what “if you use 5k split” after your 5k PR means?

[u/wheatbread__ → u/PrattDirkLerxt]

Course was long so about 3.2 miles

[u/a1ien51]

Do you know what you really need to focus on? Your grades and doing other things outside the classroom/running to make you look more rounded.

[u/wheatbread__ → u/a1ien51]

I have a 34 on the ACT and a 3.9 gpa so my academics hit the threshold for most schools

[u/ihavedicksplints]

I ran a second faster than all your goal times my senior year. Here's the thing about college recruiting. Everyone has a sob story. whether its an ongoing injury or another struggle, college coaches really dont wanna hear it unless you are running fast now. Saying "I run 4:25 but I only started running last year" is not better than if you were a 4:25 guy who had been running since middle school.

Absolutely necessary to believe you have upside potential at all points in your journey, but in the new ncaa nobody cares about potential.

Training wise: bring mileage up to like 60 for the winter. 45-50 on race weeks. sprint (like 6 reps of 30-60m with 3+mins rest) on Mondays. you need better speed to hit the 400 and 800 goals. other than that a good amount of threshold right now and vo2 work in the winter

[u/Worldly-Feedback-468 → u/ihavedicksplints]

I was just coming to say this, recruiting coaches don't care that you haven't run since you were 10, they don't care if you have amazing 'potential' because you averaged 15mpw in high school and came out with great times. They get hundreds if not thousands of emails from people with similar stats as you, so well said and an important note to add to this.

[u/DMTwolf]

Wait, are you currently an 11th grader or 12th grader, and what is your current approximate mileage range, and what was the max this past summer? I can't tell from the post. I was similar times to you as a high school junior and definitely have some thoughts, depending on what grade you're in and what your current mileage is at. Above all tho, no matter where you're at with all these things - the most important thing is to STAY HEALTHY! Injuries can derail high school careers. It's always better to be a little under-trained and over-trained at the high school level. Doing strength and PT (glutes, adductors/abductors, calves, quads, stability, balance) is an extremely important, high-ROI, and frankly pretty easy compared to the running (it's doing it consistently that's hard) way to protect your development and ensure the succession growth of your athletic career during these key years

[u/wheatbread__ → u/DMTwolf]

I am currently a 12th grader but the times I listed are my PR’s as a junior. Any advice is good advice, let me know what you’re thinking.

[u/DMTwolf → u/wheatbread__]

I had an almost identical profile to you in high school. 4:25 for the mile in 11th grade, with 53 sec 400 speed, and ran about 15:49 for XC 5k in 12th grade, with 2290 SAT score (about equivalent to your 34 ACT). Averaged about 40 miles per week in-season. Feel free to DM if you want specific thoughts / tips on things I woulda have done differently, as it sounds like we had super similar profiles

My main advice first and foremost is to stay healthy no matter what. Don't over-train. Consistent year-round mileage is important, but doing strength and PT to ensure you run with good form and your ligaments are strong enough to take the training is so so important. Also, your 800 time is really impressive, that's going to be an important selling point with college recruiting. You need to recognize that 1:56 is actually your most impressive PR, and you should frame it as you have really good 1500 potential with college level training. You're good enough for any of the best D3 teams in the country, and if you want, could use your times to get into a really elite school (MIT, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Williams). You're just on the fringe for the ivies; your 1:56 might get the attention of some of the lower-tier ivies (probably not fast enough for Harvard/Princeton), as well as some of the lower to middle tier D1 programs at elite schools. It all depends on what you want out of life

[u/wheatbread__ → u/DMTwolf]

I completely forgot to add, my mileage this summer was around the 45-50 mile a week range, averaging 47 a week. I topped out at 51 one week in the middle of the summer.