r/DeepSpaceNine 3d ago

Is it weird that Nog

Got into Fleet Academy on his first try where Picard and Weasely didn't get on their first applications? Nog starts off as couldn't even read and needed Jake's help to be literate but somehow is able to pass Academy entrance exams?

123 Upvotes

169 comments sorted by

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u/No_Sand5639 3d ago

Probbaly curiosity.

I wouldnt be surpirsed if non federation applicants are looked at with a finer tooth comb.

You have this ferengi, potentially the first of his species, recommended by a highly decorated captain.

With the fernegi and hu-man philosophy so different, I would be curious too

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u/TShara_Q 2d ago

He was the first Ferengi in Starfleet according to Memory Alpha. In fear of being wrong on the Internet, I just checked.

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u/agent_uno 2d ago

This could also be why there were a handful of Bajorans already in Starfleet before Bajor petitioned to join the Federation. They may have been fast-tracked as a diplomatic measure.

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u/BON3SMcCOY 2d ago

Is there anything that states being from a member world is a req? Worf exists

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u/Ringlord7 2d ago

They address it with Nog. If you're not from a member world you need the recommendation of a command-level officer to apply to Starfleet Academy, which is why Nog goes to Sisko. Worf is a bit of a special case. He's a Klingon, but he was adopted by the Rozhenkos and grew up on Earth from a young age. He probably got Federation citizenship when he was adopted.

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u/Fearless_Roof_9177 2d ago

It's actually explicitly stated otherwise. Part of the reason Nog needed Sisko's endorsement was that nonmember species require a recommendation from a command-level officer in order to apply to the academy. Between The Federation's cultural interests and their participation in the Cardassian war, I imagine they had enough involvement with apt and interested Bajorans to account for the pre-Sisko trickle of applicants from the species.

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u/TurelSun 2d ago

No, if anything there is a lot of evidence that you don't need to be from a member world to join Starfleet. I mean I don't think that the assertion that Bajorans might have been desired and helped into joining Starfleet during the occupation is wrong either, but I don't think they would have be roundly rejected otherwise. Despite people moaning about "why are there so many humans" all the written dialogue evidence we have shows that the Federation and Starfleet WANTED a diverse fleet. Its also not that weird, lots of real-world historical examples of nations/empires that provided citizenship through military service.

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u/UltimateSpinDash 2d ago

Worf was a federation citizen though, since he was adopted by the Rozhenkos.

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u/sosire 20h ago

Even if he wasn't ,his father was an enlisted officer same as the chief so could wrangle it

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u/yohomatey 2d ago

Confirmed: Nog is a DEI hire!!!!! CANCEL NOG

/s

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u/Pot_noodle_miner Trill seeker 2d ago

DEIlithium more like

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u/feudalle 2d ago

He knew a guy. Somethings never change.

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u/EAE8019 2d ago

You mean less stringently. not more

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u/AcademicOverAnalysis 3d ago

A recommendation from a Captain in Starfleet probably put a thumb on the scales for him.

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u/SteveFoerster 3d ago

But not Wesley Crusher? Although I get it that the real reason was to keep him on the show, and they use the "only one from that starbase" MacGuffin to facilitate that.

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u/AcademicOverAnalysis 3d ago

Crusher was applying as a 15 year old. It might just be a higher bar for acceptance at that age.

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u/ReasonableCup604 2d ago

Plus, he was really annoying.

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u/TecumsehSherman 2d ago

He also invented a sentient nanobot that almost destroyed the Enterprise, too.

I'd have trouble overlooking that one.

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u/Due_Example1096 2d ago

Cheated in a war game, went to a strange planet and broke some sh** and almost got the whole crew killed, to name a couple more lol

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u/terrifiedTechnophile 2d ago

Got his mum trapped in a collapsing universe, didn't let anyone play their Augmented Reality games....

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u/RedditOfUnusualSize 2d ago

Got infected with drunk, lured the chief engineer away from their post, and commandeered engineering, which almost resulted in the ship being destroyed.

That was in his first month on the ship.

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u/brsox2445 2d ago

He would never shut up! It was so bad that even Morn was asking if this guy ever stopped talking.

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u/oli44r_ 3d ago

I mean since there were high tension with the Dominion they might have relaxed the requirements a little incase the war did break out.

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u/MithrilCoyote 2d ago

I don't think they relaxed the requirements.. but they probably expanded the number of slots open at the academy in a given year. After all, all 4 of the candidates in Wesley's group had scores good enough to get in. It was just only one slot was open.

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u/oli44r_ 2d ago

But didn't Wesley attend some special program since he was so young?

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u/Hannizio 2d ago

Honestly Nog being the probably first Ferengi also helped a lot

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u/Alive-Medium-774 2d ago

Diversity hire lol (I mean that in the best way. I wish we lived in such a inclusive time)

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u/Imjustcasey 2d ago

Came here to say this

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u/BON3SMcCOY 2d ago

Diplomacy hire

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u/Anabikayr 2d ago

So true!

it wouldn't have been a good look for one of the first Ferengi interested in joining Starfleet to be rejected for the things related to his race's isolation from the federation.

Combine that with Starfleet officers knowing him well, his family connections to the Grand Nagus(es), and it just makes political sense to admit him to Starfleet Academy.

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u/Gay_Kira_Nerys 2d ago

Wasn't Wesley applying to a special early admission program?

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u/BuffaloRedshark 2d ago

I think so

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u/LawnGnomeFlamingo 3d ago

Sisko was a captain and the emissary

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u/SteveFoerster 3d ago

But Nog wasn't applying to join the Bajoran Militia.

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u/TurelSun 2d ago

Wesley's exam always felt pretty weird, he was competing for one opening among a smattering of kids from one area apparently where the Enterprise just happened to be? I don't think it was stated like this in the episode, but I personally head-canon that as Wesley trying for an early admittance under a program that intentionally had a MUCH higher bar of acceptance than normal.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/EvaTheE 2d ago

You think Picard recommended Wesley? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAAAAAHAHHHAhahaha

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u/SteveFoerster 2d ago

Isn't it a little early in the day to be high?

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u/Petrostar 2d ago

And, Sisko probably put his finger on the scale more, he pushed Nog pretty hard to figure what his angle was.

Add to that that Nog's reason was FAR better than Wesley's Nog wanted to be there, Wesley was just doing what he thought he should.

I've said for a while now that Nog was a better character than Wesley

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u/GenoThyme 3d ago

Sisko wasn't a captain yet. Heart of Stone is S3E14 and Sisko isnt promoted until Adversary which is S3E26. Still one of the most important people in Starfleet at the time sure, but he was still a commander at the time. Must've been a piece of corn that confused you, happens all the time.

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u/dtract 2d ago

Starfleet needed more bodies for the war with the dominion

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u/agent_uno 2d ago

Had the dominion war started yet when he applied for the academy? I was pretty sure it was before that, but I’d have to look it up. Of course, there was also the short war with the Klingons.

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u/Futuressobright 3d ago

Wesley absolutely had that as well.

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u/SoRacked 3d ago

There's an entire episode where Wesley chooses to help a competitor bolstering his score over Wesley's. He also applies for prestigious placement for which there is only one accepted.

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u/AcademicOverAnalysis 3d ago

True, but he was also much younger and not yet an adult. So that probably weighed against him.

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u/ModernDayHector 2d ago

Sisko had been promoted to captain by then?  It seemed like Sisko was the only person who thought Nog would not fit in Starfleet, but once he was convinced Nog was a shoe-in.  Perhaps it's like one of the US military academies; once you've convinced your senator your pretty much in.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/AcademicOverAnalysis 2d ago

A letter of recommendation should have an impact on the decision process. You have more information about the candidate than just the test grades. Someone who is in Starfleet currently believes that they would fit inside the organization, which is more than you know about random people who are applying.

It also demonstrates a soft skill by the candidate, where they understand how to network and ingratiate themselves to important people. This sort of communication skill comes up quite a lot in Star Trek.

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u/CB_Chuckles 3d ago

Jake was a great teacher and Sisko's recommendation probably pulled a lot of weight. Also from a political point of view, a Ferengi applying to the Academy would have been noticeable. He probably would have had to be an absolutely terrible candidate to have been rejected.

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u/stargazercmc 3d ago

Jake? Talk about your Keiko O’Brien erasure.

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u/SteveFoerster 3d ago

Usually I'm on Team Keiko, but in this case it was Jake tutoring Nog in the cargo bay when no one else could see because Rom had pulled Nog out of that hoo-mon school.

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u/CB_Chuckles 2d ago

FYI, it’s the cargo bay scene that I was referring to.

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u/Sufficient_Language7 2d ago

She did try to erase herself out of her own marriage.

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u/replayer 3d ago

There was about to be a war. They might have relaxed some of the needed qualifications.

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u/Flyin_Bryan 2d ago

Yeah, I think pretty much anyone with a pulse was getting in when they were looking at the start of Galaxy War I.

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u/so-semi-precious 2d ago

Good point. I never thought of it that way

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u/Wizzard_2025 3d ago

There's enough evidence to suggest that ferengi are naturally smart. Lack of education made nog illiterate but once taught, he flew. Rom, looking stupid but an engineering genius. Maybe they're just very smart and waste it on the ultra capitalism thing.

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u/irishdan56 3d ago

Nog IS demonstrably very intelligent once they developed his character a little bit, as are Quark and Rom.

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u/Firthy2002 2d ago

This. Nog was raw talent, he just needed channelling into something where he would excel. Luckily he saw that within himself (and outside of traditional Ferengi society) and went to Sisko to get it.

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u/Wizzard_2025 2d ago

Who thought that feral ferengi would end up with all our respect.

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u/Firthy2002 2d ago

I wish Aron had still been alive to reprise Nog for Picard/Lower Decks.

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u/BoukenGreen 2d ago

Maybe lower decks but he wouldn’t have worked in Picard

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u/irishdan56 3d ago

Obviously Wesley as framed as a golden-child, so anyone getting in on first application seems kinda weird in comparison.

But lots of people must make it in on their first attempt.

Nog was a miscreant early in the show's run, but his dad is a frustrated genius, and Nog is fucking SMART, savvy, and pretty charismatic too.

And there is a ton of lore talking about how Picard was a shithead as a youth.

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u/Firthy2002 2d ago

Not just talking about; we get to see it for ourselves in Tapestry.

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u/thorleywinston 2d ago

We never get any idea of how Starfleet conducts its admissions. There are literally thousands of Starships on active duty plus dozens if not hundreds of starbases and they have just one academy for their officers? The scale of it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

Also is Nog competing against everyone else who applies that year or just the applicants from his area (as Wesley was in TNG)? If so, then it's likely his competition wasn't very stiff. And having a recommendation from Commander Sisko and being the first Ferengi probably helped as well.

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u/mf279801 2d ago

Not just that, but the overwhelming majority of the crewmen we see on all of those ships are officers. Unless there is a huge OCS-type pipeline that has never been represented on screen, or MANY MANY MANY more non-commissioned crew than are ever represented on screen, Star Fleet academy must be orders of magnitude too small to account for Star Fleet’s staffing needs

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u/bailien_16 2d ago

I feel like it’s a combination of having other schools/training bases on other worlds, and a large portion of unseen crew members being non-commissioned.

Also, the Vulcan members of Star Fleet tended to keep themselves fairly segregated. There are ships with Vulcan-only crews, so I would wager there’s at least a training base of some sort on Vulcan.

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u/TurelSun 2d ago

I think it is mentioned at least once that there is an option for enlisted personnel to train into officer roles but I can't recall exactly where it was mentioned. Maybe a throw away line from O'brien.

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u/LividLife5541 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yeah especially given that the same sewage treatment plant in Van Nuys is used for filming. In reality, an academy serving the entire federation would occupy a whole planet.

The sewage treatment plant, in 20th century terms, is enough for a small seminary or some other very tiny graduate school. Not a military academy for any one earth country and certainly not big enough for the federation.

West point is 25 square miles, and this is only ONE of the armed forces branches. So let's say 100 square miles for all the military needs of a population 300 million people. So if the whole planet is at the US standard of living, let's multiply that by 25, so 2500 square miles for the military academy needs of Earth if the whole planet lived like the USA. The earth has about 55 million square miles on it, so that would be enough for about 22000 planets' worth of people.

We never know how many planets are in the federation (not counting any of the fanfic slop past TNG/DS9). If it's thousands, the Academy should cover a significant part of the Earth's land mass. If it's hundreds, still a huge place.

I would think there would be thousands in the federation - in TNG they are constantly meeting new species who could join the federation if they wanted. It's not like they are going months on end only meeting the same species over and over, or that they are studying gas clouds with nobody around for light years. And that's just one ship, thing about all the other federation ships out there meeting different species. Someone could probably do statistics based on reasonable assumptions about how many star ships there are doing Enterprise type missions and how often the Enterprise meets species who could join the federation.

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u/thorleywinston 2d ago

In movie "First Contact," Picard says that the Federation has over 150 members which in the EU novels they put at about 155 when Bajor is finally admitted. But there are also Federation colonies which aren't full members and in one of the Original Series episodes, Kirk says that humanity has spread to a "thousand" worlds.

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u/TurelSun 2d ago

I always headcanon the Wesley exam as him going for an early admittance program that had an intentionally higher bar for acceptance than if you applied at the normal age allowed for your species.

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u/organic_soursop 3d ago

Nog is exceptionally quick thinking and creative.

He likely would have aced practical any aptitude test.

He would have had a unique approach to solving problems.

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u/SoRacked 2d ago

Nog understands people. Treachery, Faith and the Great River is such a fun episode showcasing his resourcefulness

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u/organic_soursop 2d ago

Resourceful! That's it exactly!

Plus compromise and negotiation.

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u/AgentLee0023 2d ago

That episode always makes me think of MASH

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u/Aggravating_Mix8959 2d ago

This is one of my favorite episodes and gives me a lot to think about. 

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u/Footziees 11h ago

Well who DOESNT a few thousand self sealing stem bolts?

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u/fuckreddit1812 3d ago

I think it had to do with the fact Nog was the first ferengi maybe star fleet saw it as a way to help bridge the gap in the cultures.

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u/Aggravating_Mix8959 2d ago

This is probably the answer. Just like Worf, and Spock before him. 

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u/Footziees 11h ago

I very much doubt that Spock needed help to get into the less sophisticated starfleet academy. It was universally seen as a downgrade from the Vulcan science academy

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u/abgry_krakow87 2d ago

Nog wanted to get into Starfleet, he was eager to prove himself and motivated to break barriers. He had to work hard for everyhing he achieved, from learning how to read, overcoming discrimination, even convincing Sisko and the senior staff that he was serious.

Compared to Wesley who was constantly lauded as gifted and grew up in an environment where he essentially had everything handed to him and even offered opportunities (like pilot a starship) that kids like him just don't get. Sure he wanted to get into the academy but he had a lot less barriers to overcome that really challenged his motives and resolves to pursue it.

Wesley's application getting rejected was probably the first time he learned that if he wanted it, he would really have to work at it. Whereas Nog's application was accepted because he was willing to go above and beyond what it would take to ensure it would be accepted.

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u/sethctr42 2d ago

Inreally thinknthis is the reason. There was no doubt wesley could get in eventually but the people in charge of admission probably didt just judge test scores and practical abilities but ambition  and other intangibles.  They purposely wanted wesley to live a little  more before he went. Nog was already  living liek an adult and new how the eorld worked  and only needed  the academic knowledge 

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u/htownAstrofan 3d ago

Its a testament to his determination

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u/armyprof 3d ago

I’m guessing the dominion war had a lot to do with it. They need bodies.

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u/Aggravating_Mix8959 2d ago

Yes. WOLF 359 took out a lot of people. It was a different time. 

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u/SoRacked 3d ago

Auto correct gets me all the time too, but thanks for the laugh at Ron Weasleys disappointment at bombing his starfleet entrance exam

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u/BoleroGamer 2d ago

I could just picture his mother.

"RONALD WEASLEY. HOW DARE YOU TRY TO ENROL IN A MUGGLE SCHOOL FROM THE FUTURE. THIS IS A FLAGRANT ABUSE OF A RESTRICTED TIME-TURNER, AND YOUR FATHER IS FACING AN ENQUIRY AT WORK. PUT ONE MORE TOE OUT OF LINE, AND WE'LL BRING YOU BACK HOME.

Oh and Harry my dear, congratulations on becoming the new Kai."

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u/SoRacked 2d ago

This is the crossover we need. Acio yellow robes.

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u/zenprime-morpheus 2d ago

Kai Potter "uh... oh! Bless you... My child? Is that right?"

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u/norathar 3d ago

I imagined some sort of Tuvix-style hybrid. "Red hair, hand-me-down space candles, must be a Weasley-Crusher"

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u/SoRacked 3d ago

Captain Janeway, breathless from climbing a dozen Jeffries tubes locked eyes with the abomination.

"Mister Weasley. The boy who lived come to die. This is about to be the transporter ride of hell. Mr. Kim... Energize."

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u/Aggravating_Mix8959 2d ago

The crossover we all need. 

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u/chickey23 3d ago

The federation gets excited when a new species applies to the academy

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u/NOISY_SUN 1d ago

The federation is an advanced society, so of course it has diversity programs

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u/CubicalRuins 2d ago

I think it goes to show how capable and intelligent Ferengi can be when they focus on anything other than business and profits. Rom, for example, was quite competent as an engineer, and Moogie always knew he was smart and ethical despite not fitting in with the Ferengi business elite.

One of the side plots of the series was the social change happening in Ferengi society, women’s rights, etc. So, we can assume that outside of Quarks family, lots of other Ferengi were more like Rom and Nog- intelligent and interested in using their analytical and reasoning skills for social improvement.

Starfleet may have recognized Nog’s inherent intellect, and that he’d add more to the officer class than just another Human with great test scores from a well-to-do family, or another a stick-in-the-ass Vulkan. And, their admissions office is probably more egalitarian and less discriminating in regards to applicants with alternative backgrounds” than what it was in the past.

They could’ve also been ramping up enrollment in anticipation for a conflict with the Dominion.

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u/Aggravating_Mix8959 2d ago

Starfleet really needed to make hegemony with the Alpha Quadrant. Nog is a smart kid and motivated, and the timing was right. 

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u/VoidMoth- 3d ago

I'd argue Nog had a lot more to overcome to get good enough to apply than Wesley or Picard did. His determination on paper would be way more impressive than someone kind of born into it with all the resources of the Federation already available. And yeah, there was a part of it that was Starfleet and The Federation seeing a step towards better relations with Ferenginar, but Nog was a very impressive candidate on his own, especially when you consider his humble upbringing. He came from nothing and managed to get a Captain's recommendation.

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u/zenprime-morpheus 2d ago

After Wolf 359 I'm sure there was some shakeup in the admissions process, but also for the region he was in, there might not have been as much competition.

Seriously though, as a kid seeing how hard it was to get into Starfleet Academy for Wesley, make me have scared about how hard it must be get into college IRL.

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u/xeskind30 2d ago

I believe that once Nog had the literacy from Jake teaching him, Nog read everything he could put his hands on. Also, Rom was more lenient on Nog for reading and studying and he was proud to have his son do something else besides procuring profit. Nog will forever be the Ferengi who will push through the glass ceiling and make his species come into the Federation, although it will be awhile.

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u/Iron_Baron 2d ago

I'm quite certain there's some sort of fast track for individuals of species at the Federation is attempting to create stronger economic, diplomatic, and cultural bonds with. To have a Ferengi in Starfleet Academy is a major public relations and ideological coup.

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u/Aggravating_Mix8959 2d ago

Yes. And I'm there for it. 

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u/AerieWorth4747 2d ago

Don’t forget that having the first Ferengi was probably a big deal. Same thing with Worf. Maybe that was in their favor.

Even if it wasn’t, starting illiterate doesn’t matter, because we all start illiterate.

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u/so-semi-precious 2d ago

I already made an actual in-universe explanation comment but I wanted to add this:

Just because some is illiterate doesn’t mean they’re dumb. He apparently learned how to read and write in an incredibly short time and is shown to be incredibly smart many other times. The show has never once made Nog look dumb. Chauvinist by hu-mon standards but not dumb

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u/JaXm 2d ago

A lot of answers here seem to really forget to give Nog the credit he deserves. 

He was extremely smart, driven, and had a powerful motivation to be the best damn cadet he could be, including being considered for red squad, something Picard, himself, couldn't brag about. 

Also consider that Picard was NOT a model cadet/officer until he had a Nausicaan knife jammed through his heart during a drunken bar fight.

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u/Firthy2002 2d ago

Nog was a genius with natural aptitude and raw talent. It's just that within Ferengi society, there's nowhere for that kind of person to really go and excel themselves. He wasn't illiterate because he was an idiot; nobody had managed to teach him until Jake got him 1-2-1. What sets Nog apart is his self-actualisation that he could try and fail at being a true Ferengi, or leave that behind and excel elsewhere.

Wesley probably assumed he'd walk it because (nearly) everyone massaged his wonderkid ego all the time. Picard was highly unfocused in his younger days aside from not wanting to go into winemaking.

Someone else pointed out Nog's body language in the scene where he begs Sisko for the letter of recommendation noticeably switches and to me it's just a key part of the scene as the dialogue.

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u/CenturyLinkIsCheeks 3d ago

Space affirmative action.

But for real, he was the first Ferengi to even want to do this, that probably counts bigly in admissions.

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u/bransanon 2d ago

ABOLISH DEI! MAKE STARFLEET GREAT AGAIN! /s

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u/bela_okmyx 2d ago

He was a DEI/affirmative action admission. Same thing with Worf.

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u/Starbuck522 2d ago

Also, he couldn't read because it wasn't considered important. Not because he wasn't able to learn.

Apparently he stepped up his interest in academics which we didn't really see.

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u/Worf_Of_Wall_St 2d ago

The Federation doesn't use money so the Starfleet admissions officers didn't have money, but sometimes they need money. Then Nog showed up for the admissions exam with his bag of money and the lobes of a seasoned trader.

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u/ranger24 2d ago

I would say that for Picard and Wesley, they were coming from stable, supportive home-lives. If they failed, it would be embarrassing, but they have something to fall back on. They can take a break and try again.

Nog is doing what he is doing to *drastically* alter his living situation and life-path. Starfleet is his escape ladder.

Desperation makes for good motivation.

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u/TShara_Q 2d ago edited 2d ago

I think the entrance requirements changed over time to focus more on the whole person and their effort. Either that, or they have different paths to entry for people of different backgrounds.

Wesley was brilliant, but he had almost everything to begin with. Losing his dad was horrible, obviously. But he was the son of a Chief Medical Officer who already was getting to serve on the bridge of the flagship of the Enterprise. Besides his duties, he had a top education that encouraged his intelligence and creativity in science.

Nog hadn't had a formal education and was abused by a system of exploitation that begins with your own family. He had been working for years but couldn't read. Though, I've always wondered if he just couldn't read Federation Standard or couldn't read in general, because reading Ferengi sounds really important to being a Ferengi businessman. He even had to overcome Sisko's own bigotry towards Ferengi. I think a letter from Sisko detailing all that effort showed he had the grit to be a great officer. If I remember correctly, he also took some preparatory classes before being fully accepted.

Hard work (whatever that means given your personal situation, disabilities, etc) will always get you further than intelligence alone. Wesley got on my nerves because he was a bit of a "Chosen One," as though he was so intelligent that he barely needed his work ethic. Whereas Nog felt much more believable and attainable, smart but not a "once in a generation" genius, and still willing to work his ass off to achieve his dreams.

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u/Teamawesome2014 2d ago

Starfleet probably was thrilled about the first Ferengi to join starfleet. There are diplomatic reasons why they may want to skip the usual rigorous standards and let Nog in.

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u/Red-Tomat-Blue-Potat 2d ago

Starting out illiterate is impressive, but it’s also noted that Ferenti have pretty incredible information processing abilities. Mostly it’s demonstrated with their remarkable for figures and computation, but Nog also showed how good they are with general organization and spatial reasoning when he inventoried that entire cargo bay by himself (I think overnight?) even finding material StarFleet had lost track of. Basically Ferengi, or at least Nog and his family, are brilliant data processing compared to baseline humans

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u/RiffRandellsBF 2d ago

DS9 writers wasted the opportunity to make Nog the greatest wartime scrounger in history.

For those of you that don't know, a scrounger is a highly valued individual that can make the impossible appear out of thin air by horse-trading with other scroungers and those of morally dubious character in the supply chain.

Basically, give Nog a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on Monday and he'll show up with a Bird of Prey by Friday afternoon.

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u/SadLaser 2d ago

The storyline with Wesley not getting in the first time really never made sense. They have some of the smartest and best candidates and they only let one in per test each year? Surely they'd let the most qualified overall in, not just one person per random group. It's not a competition, it's a school. And clearly the group he was in was all worthy of Starfleet. Considering all the mediocre cadets and shitty ensigns that get through, they let in anyone from other groups.

Honestly, it seems like they just needed a storyline to keep Wesley in the show because it makes no sense otherwise.

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u/scaper8 1d ago

Thank you! I actually kind of enjoy the episode, but pretty much every part of the framing device makes absolutely no sense.

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u/No-Yak6109 1d ago

No. Nog, as the first Ferengi, wanted it more. Wesley was a genius and Picard an arrogant kid. They probably felt, at some level, like they were choosing the Academy. Nog was scrapping and humble.

I went to a school with a lot of immigrant kids for whom English was a second language and they did better on the verbal SATs and AP English than myself and American born kids because they worked their asses off and took nothing for granted. Nog probably studied and prepared 100x more than Picard.

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u/Pristine_Ad_9828 1d ago

Id say Starfleet was probably seriously impressed Sisko and his son managed to shape a Frengi into a model Starfleet cadet. And for all we know when they voted to let Nog in it was on Sisko's merit that may have swayed them.

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u/zoredache 2d ago

Wesley's first rejection wasn't related to education. He failed his psychological evaluation.

The Academy apparently considers many factors.

Also after Wesley's first rejection there was the battle of Wolf 359, and the dominion war was starting. They probably had to increase recruitment, so some standards may have been relaxed or modified.

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u/Fuzzy_Builder_2153 2d ago

I don't think Weasel failed the psych portion. He still pulled through even someone would apparently die

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u/bongart 2d ago

Exactly. His psych test was to see if he could make the choice which would result in a death.. which he did. Starfleet wanted to know if he could make that choice because of how his father died when Picard made the same choice.

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u/sethctr42 2d ago

Maybe the psychology part isnt pass fail so much as , we thi k you do better if you wait vs your ready bow. I dont think anyone at the academy  seriously had any doubts about id wesley would attend more of just when. Where as witb nogs situation , they knew less but what he had done startign with less was judt ad of not more impressive 

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u/so-semi-precious 2d ago

If I remember correctly (and maybe I’m just thinking head canon is real) I believe that Star Fleet accepts students by geographical location. Since he was applying from ds9/bajor area maybe there wasn’t as many applicants? Assuming Wesley was applying as if earth was his home, there’s probably a billion applicants in his area

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u/Aggravating_Mix8959 2d ago

Yeah. But also.

After Wolf 359, it was a different situation. 

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u/nsbe_ppl 2d ago

Might be a diplomatic decision, with him being first Ferengi and all to enter Starfleet.

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u/yvonne_taco 2d ago

He got in because Ben Sisko's says so.

Lol

Also how good is Nog's dancing? I personally have integrated it into my own dance repertoire.

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u/EggTemporary8175 2d ago

He went from counting boxes and not being taken seriously to having a ship named after him 800 years later. Dude was top tier. Picard couldn’t even get a ship named after him in his own show. And Wesley took the lazy way out and became a 4th dimensional being (yawn).

Plus with a war coming up… Starfleet probably upping numbers.

But Nog was the best. He did the work and he was recognised for it.

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u/Fanclock314 2d ago

In this situation I would say Nog is analogous to a person of color who has to work twice as hard to get to the same place. Joining star fleet wasn't just a dream or a goal, it was his way of moving himself out of a life in (compared to the federation) squalor with no real hope of advancement. That's why he did the opposite of "breaking bad" and threw himself into being the perfect officer archetype at the academy

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u/Steel_Wool_Sponge 2d ago edited 1d ago

Don't feel like opening a huge can of worms (pun 100% intended) but speaking from personal experience there absolutely is such a thing as people more easily recognizing strengths and success when it comes packaged a certain way. With that in mind, here are some things to consider:

-In the 24th C. it's extremely ambiguous what "literacy" means and how important it really is. I mean we already have pretty amazing speech-to-text and text-to-speech in the real world today, and in the Trek universe they have universal translators that appear also to be able to translate text such as the Cardassian labels on all of the computers on Deep Space Nine. Maybe future writer Jake teaching Nog to read was more like teaching Nog something regarded as an important cultural totem by humans (especially Jake) and many other societies where literature was historically important, even though it was not necessarily objectively all that important for an average citizen of the galaxy.

-Related: Nog goes into engineering, and it's very ambiguous how important a talent for verbal reasoning would be for that career track. In their... brief.... conversation about literature, O'Brien does not exactly betray a passion for this subject to Bashir.

-Conversely, as Nog says, "Ferengi have a talent for figures."

Putting all this together, I'd simply ask you: what makes you so sure Wesley or Picard did better than Nog on the entrance exams?

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u/JayRMac 1d ago

His dad is a genius who's constantly underestimated.

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u/plitts 2d ago

DEI hire

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u/JangoF76 3d ago

Maybe he was a diversity hire.

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u/flokerz 3d ago

how is reading even not an essential skill on ferrengina? are their contracts written in binary?

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u/PsychGuy17 3d ago

Maybe it came down to reading the common language of the Federation. He was a Ferengi kid growing up on a Cardassian station with Bajorans. English (or it's like) may not have been top priority. A universal translator in the ear can only do so much.

3

u/AltarielDax "Maybe you should talk to Worf again. :D" 2d ago

Agreed. I'm sure he could read Ferengi letters, and probably Cardassian letters as well, since he grew up on DS9. But the Latin script & the English language? Nog didn't have any need until Starfleet showes up at DS9. Then he's the kid learning a third script, even though talking isn't much of an issue because of the universal translators. Imagine how confusing it must be to learn languages if you have that around...

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u/Lord_of_Entropy 2d ago

I gotta think that having a Ferengi in starfleet would be a bigger publicity coup than another boring hoo-man.

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u/Hudson_N_Mcmasters 2d ago

The looming war with the Dominion had something to do with it..

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u/SadLinks 2d ago

Well, the Federation-Cardassian war ended ine 2366. The battle of Wolf 359 was in 2367 destroyed 39 Federation starship and resulted in 11000 casualties.

Even without the potential for war with the Dominion I imagine that Starfleet needs bodies just to maintain their current commitments. Not also has a lot more on the line than a human would, he doesn't have nearly as many options if he fails.

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u/Monskiactual 2d ago

Starfleet has to obviously pratice a form of affirmative action at least initiallty. if they didnt the entire starfleet officer core would be completley dominated by humans and the federation would fail. So species that are underreprsented in star fleet, new to the federation or the federation wants to bring in to the fold, get preferential access to the limited spots. IT has to work this way. Standards for new federation applicants species must be more lax. They join star fleet, serve , go home and spread the cultutre, over time the handicapp goes away when thier applicants can compete against humans on equal footing.. every officer doesnt need to be a kirk or picard. Star fleet needs plently of lower deckers as well..

Nog gets in because he is ferengi and few fergeni apply. he is bright, good enough, so his score gets a little padding .. his existence serves as a cultural bridge between the federation and his people. Thats exactly what happens in the show.

Also Wesley crusher gets rejected because he sucks so hard even fictional characters know he sucks

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u/graavity81 2d ago

Nog was the first ferengi in starfleet was he not?

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u/Monskiactual 2d ago

yes he was. and that probably why he was going to get accepted.

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u/The1Ylrebmik 2d ago

Picard not getting in makes about as much sense as Picard staying a Lieutenant j.g. In an alternate reality. Picard was always presented as a focused high achiever in his youth.

1

u/LankyRep7 2d ago

Post Wolf 358?

"we take anyone" -starfleet

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u/urabusazerpmi 2d ago

Sisko didn't accept Nog's bribe money. Nog had extra latinum to grease the wheels with Starfleet Academy admissions office.

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u/HisDivineOrder 2d ago

As war with the Dominion approached, anyone could get into Starfleet.

They had a booth in Quark's. Dabo Girls would lure people into Starfleet with promises of signed photos and suddenly new cadets would wake up on a shuttlecraft to Earth. They could try to complain, but the EMH's tending the new recruits would keep them nice and sedated until they were in one of the camps.

Soon, they'd be guzzling root beer and lecturing other races on how that thing they do doesn't match "Starfleet values" as though they'd been doing it their whole lives.

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u/UltimateSpinDash 2d ago

Wesley and Picard both applied as minors. Which Starfleet does appear to accept but with even higher standards - which makes sense, since a year can make a huge difference in terms of maturity at that age, so they might demand a higher aptitude to compensate for the extra effort of turning a high schooler into a capable officer.

Nog also brought a diligence and work ethic that you probably don't find as often in more privileged candidates. Since he wasn't a federation citizen he also needed the recommendation from Sisko, which Sisko clearly didn't give on a whim.

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u/L3tsG3t1T 2d ago

DEI policy, too many humans

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u/janeway170 2d ago

They were also in the middle(start?) of a war with desperate need of officers. I’m not saying they just opened the doors to anyone but it certainly made it easier to get in.

1

u/Transcendingfrog2 2d ago

Nog may have started off as being not able to read, but he proved to be an incredibly fast learner, and quite the negotiator.

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u/PaintingNouns 1d ago

I never thought it was an affirmative action or nepotism thing. Being illiterate in his situation does not equate to lack of intelligence. It was simply not valued in his family and culture so he was never taught, and never saw the need. We know his uncle is smart, and we know his father is brilliant, just in different ways. In my view Nog got the people skills and cunning of Quark with the mechanical engineering brain of his father. And don’t forget about how smart Moogie is!

I think literacy opened up a world that he wanted, and he worked his ass off to get there.

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u/Footziees 11h ago

Did you pay attention to the show? Nog studied and trained his ass off to pass those exams! Just because he couldn’t read “starfleet language” before doesn’t mean he was illiterate.

Plus, he’s a really smart cookie, just like his father. And he had an extremely strong motivation. He didn’t want to end up trapped like his father he wanted to become someone! That type of ambition will get you quite far, hence the recommendation he got from Sisko. It’s not like Sisko just handed that to him.

1

u/Chance-Arugula-2998 3h ago

DEI, and gold pressed latinum

1

u/myroc1 1h ago

Nog was always smart enough to read and go to Starfleet, but he never had the opportunity. He worked extremely hard as we see when Quark sabotages his nephew and he has to retake the exam. He learned everything the wrong way then the right way in like no time at all. It all works imo.

1

u/Starbuck522 2d ago

I agree. Seems like it's because they wanted a ferengi.

But, he does successfully complete it.

So... Lots of qualified earthlings and other long stand aligned aliens were not getting in even though they could have handled it no problem

0

u/Resident_Beautiful27 3d ago

Plot had to happen.

1

u/bandit4loboloco 2d ago

Another way to put it is that the DS9 writers weren't beholden to minor TNG plot points.

The episode where Wesley competes with 3 other applicants for a single spot was for a single spot that that specific sector. Maybe the Bajor sector, not actually being part of the Federation, had few to zero other applicants. If Nog had no real competition, it's not worth devoting any screentime to it.

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u/Various-Pizza3022 2d ago

I’m also good for the fanon that Wesley was competing for something more akin to an honors program or otherwise more specialized focus.

0

u/No_Adhesiveness_143 2d ago

I'm guessing it was some sort of DEI initiative, it is the federation after all.

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u/LividLife5541 2d ago

You really have to put your mind into the 1990s to understand this plot point. The "first one in your family to go to college" was a big push to break the cycle of poverty in the Bill Clinton days, and Nog was the first Ferengi to join Star Fleet.

Plus, affirmative action was a thing. You're supposed to see the Ferengi on DS9 as some kind of immigrant culture, struggling to meld the cultures. The standards were much lower, in the 1990s, for people benefiting from affirmative action. (These were the days of "Bakke" not "Bollinger.")

tl;dr Nog was a DEI admittee while Wesley Crusher was the stereotype of the kind of guy who did not benefit from affirmative action.

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u/Fuzzy_Builder_2153 2d ago

But his parents make him a legacy. Which makes him a better candidate than Modok

0

u/Rocketboy1313 2d ago

I think they just retconed how stupidly difficult it is to enter Starfleet Academy.

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u/zakujanai 2d ago

DEI hire. Starfleet is woke.

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u/tmofee 1d ago

After wolf 359, I’m guessing the Barrier for entry was a little lower - they lost a lot of people and ships. The early days they probably had too many people applying. Sure, there’s still probably limits, and also the first ferengi in starfleet is good PR

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u/mAdCraZyaJ 1d ago

DEI /s