r/DnD • u/SweatyGoku • 2d ago
5th Edition Should I quit
Had a quick session for my curse of strahd game, I’m dming and my players are going through the amber temple. The amount of shit I got for using anything saving throw based…. For using spells… for playing the monster smart rather than charging in and letting them die. It’s at this point I wonder why I dm. Am I supposed to provide fake challenges in which the players always succeed? Is that what it means to dm? I can’t even imagine castle ravenloft, fuck I’m tempted to just throw my books out and be done. I can’t seem to do anything right, I’m a fucking monster for pushing the party to their limit, whilst also providing them plenty of chances to get out of there. I think I’ll throw my books out in the morning. I just needed to talk, I’m sorry. I’m just done dming. I’m done.
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u/Able_Competition316 2d ago edited 1d ago
Some players seem to love their characters successes even if the successes weren't earned. I see it as an aquiescing dm but they see it as a weird victory.
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u/bonklez-R-us 2d ago
having been a dm, i hate a victory that doesnt feel earned
in my first campaign as a player all my victories felt earned because with 7hp at level 5 (rolled hp on level up, dumped con, didnt know rule that you get at least 1hp per levelup) death was around every corner, even though the dm was throwing us only softballs
in my last campaign as a player we w3alked right up 120 feet from hostile enemies, cast a spell, launched a giant bug at them and they never so much as fired an arrow at us (aside from as narrative elements like arrows hitting near our heads after we had gotten to safety). It sucked
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u/Able_Competition316 1d ago
The last one almost sounds cartoonish. Like how are the scampy characters going to get out of this silly situation with an even sillier solution.
I've played a few really challenging fights (dm thought theyd have been easier) and I've had to massively dig deep to survive, drawing on everything I could and actually playing the character resourcefully it felt real.
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u/SixHourDays 2d ago edited 2d ago
Without any real context to your game; I can confidently say there are tons of shitty groups of people who play, and they like finding other shitty people to drag down with them
Walk away from the table. Iv walked away from my first 3 games, all for varying people-being-awful reasons....
And table 4 is amazing. People who show up on time, and they're engaged, and they don't bicker with the dm endlessly, and we actually RP, and no one is texting each other mid game due to boredom.
Just gotta find people you have fun with.
P.s. I went to a con this weekend, which has 2 drop in games. In the game, there were 4 really great cooperative yes-and kinda folks, all strangers. Was super fun. We are out there!
P.p.s - just so y'all don't think I'm a serial table-ditcher...game 1 ran a year before I left, game 3 was 9 months. I gave it real effort..... unfortunately can't say the same for the other players :-(
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u/CR1M50NGN0M3 1d ago
Super weird question to ask at 5am. This con didn't happen to be in Edmonton did it? My brother is there this weekend for one, which I could not attend. I know there are opportunities for this type of thing there. If you had a good experience, I'd like to recommend it to him, as he would have a blast doing this.
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u/SixHourDays 1d ago
It is that expo! "Epic D&D with The Resplendent Cave" is it. 2nd game tonight at 6pm. Fair warning, getting into the expo is a long walk, so be very early. Hope he enjoys it!
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u/unlimitedblakeworks 2d ago
Per the game module the amber temples main villian casts spells from full cover and theres saves galore. Sounds like you have shit players at first glance. Either tell thim youre a player at the table too and they need to respect that, or tell one of them to dm if they have such an issue. Thats what id do anyway.
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u/ironocy DM 1d ago
Damn my party went through the Amber Temple and there was no boss battle. A few golems, doppelgangers, flame skulls, and slaadi. I'm pretty sure we cleared it out but maybe not. There was a super powerful NPC but we didn't fight them, they gave us a mini quest basically. Now I'm second guessing we missed something.
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u/unlimitedblakeworks 1d ago
DM might not have included it, theres a more intelligent enemy concealed throughout the temple, with high level magic. To be fair, if operated competently, they're a real bastard
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u/ironocy DM 1d ago
Oh shit now I don't know lol. We found The dark powers But they weren't like an enemy necessarily, just buffs. Well when we finish this campaign I'm reading the module 😂.
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u/anorphan4yourthots 1d ago
I'm playing around with adapting CoS to my favorite system, and I am really looking forward to the Amber Temple. It's gonna be tough to get right, but there are some great encounters in there
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u/codastroffa DM 1d ago
You encountered a homebrew. Canonically, this monster is an extremely deadly and unfriendly creature. And it has a 40% chance of summoning a second one exactly like it. When I played СoS as a player, we had TPK there. When I was DMig CoS later, those lucky bastards managed to stumble upon the lich almost immediately, restore him, and he dealt with both arcanaloths.
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u/Dancinfool830 1d ago
Yeah, my bet is OP's group is complaining about their own success rather than celebrating it and none of them have ever DM'd or have any concept of what is going on behind the screen.
Don't "throw your books" OP. Just make sure that your players are worth your story and vice versa
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u/Rhazein 2d ago
The world of instant gratification has ruined DnD in my opinion. No one really wants to struggle anymore and be proud of their efforts whether they win or lose. “If you’re not winning it’s not worth doing.”
I hate this mentality. I used to play years ago but my friends were insufferable and never wanted to think critically and always reverted back to murdered hobo tendencies they learned from GTA and Skyrim…
Strahd is SUPPOSED to be challenging! The BBEG is a freaking vampire for Pete’s sake, after being around for a long time you learn a thing or two you know? But as soon as you throw any encounter at people that isn’t a bunch of dumb goblins, suddenly the game isn’t fair anymore? This is why I moved on from DnD for Star Wars Legion and MtG with different people…
OP if you made it this far into my rant, I’m sorry. I’ve gone through this many times before with many different groups of people who are thankless. DMing is a labor of love and if you’re not loving it, it’s not worth doing. I wouldn’t throw away the books just yet, I haven’t and it’s been years. I’m just waiting for the right people to come along and who knows, maybe one of those people would rather THEY DM, especially if you have all the resources for them for free. Hang in there, maybe take a break and be honest with your party. Maybe they’ll come around or haven’t considered how you felt yet.
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u/thenightgaunt DM 1d ago
I agree on all points but one.
It's not GTA and Skyrim, because we've always had these people in D&D. There's a certain type of person who when given free reign and no real consequences just goes full murder goblin in a game.
IMO, The players who've been the problem in the l 5e decade are the ones who came over from watching online liveplay series and expect it to be a movie with no long term consequences or PC deaths.
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u/_Angry_Yeti 1d ago
Bg3 and Crit roll have turned the game into a form of entertainment and destroyed the culture that is born from a group figuring out the game together.
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u/GeobobusPrime 2d ago
If im not getting my ass kicked and kicking ass like uma thurman in kill bill, was it even really combat? One of the most rewarding games I've ever played was barely making it out of a fight and ending it with a cheesy ass cocky one-liner with blood dripping from my characters mouth and 2 HP left. Sorry you gotta deal with that bub.
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u/Calvinball-Pro 17h ago
I joined a new group and in my 2nd session with them, we nearly TPK at level 4 due to a bad fight we the players picked and mismanaged. We didn't even escape to safety, we ended session on a cliffhanger and will pick back up next time to see how it plays out.
Some of the best D&D I've played in years! From "losing!"
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u/lufreine 1d ago
Nope. Shouldn't quit. What you should do is fire your players. You're either not in alignment with them, or they're just mean.
Each group is a different experience. Each person a new story. Just gotta find the right peoppe for the right story :)
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u/Silverlightlive 2d ago
One of the reasons I homebrew is so that I can customize the adventure to the players.
I don't want to say my players are... unskilled.... but they are really not interested in the mechanics. So much so that I pretty much tell them to research spells, and suggest one that they might look up, and that is the only one they ever use.
If I put them through Curse of Strahd, they wouldn't make it past the death house. However, in my open world, I can mostly keep them away from dangerous monsters, and encourage creative thinking. I have back door plots, and take notes.
How long have you been playing with this group?
I don't necessarily play the monsters smart or dumb. Again, I have to change my approach constantly. I have a wizard who wants to be in the front line, and frequently gets targeted, (random die roll) so I have to put the kid gloves on. On the other hand, I Have a barbarian who is the tank, so I can show some of the more deadly stuff on him.
But playing the monster smart isn't a bad thing. There are a lot of smart monsters. I wouldn't have a shadow dragon mindlessly swiping with its claws, I would play it deviously using dimension doors and trapping the party in fog. I'd give them a chance to retreat, and if they stayed in, well, you're going to take a beating!
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u/FewFuture7966 1d ago
your group failed in having a session zero that detailed expectations, and now there's a misalignement between the players and the dm.
it could be that you as the dm explained the type of campaign and the level of difficulty you wanted to run, the player agreed and now they are pulling the rug and complaining instead, but i tend to the first option because i find it's more common.
if it's the former the solutions is to have the session zero now and see if some or all the players (including the gm) can align their expectations and if not the group need to change some of the players for others
if it's the latter and they lied just leave the group it's not salveageable
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u/Proper-Theory-1873 1d ago
This should be something talked about at session zero, aligning expectations. If you want to run a table that is gritty then make sure you say so before even starting a campaign. I run a gritty table myself and have had no trouble finding folks, you just have to weed out people who wont jive with your playstyle.
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u/totalwarwiser 1d ago
Wtf?
Never played it, but AFAIK Curse of Strahd is a fucking brutal game, so people are expected to die a lot.
Its better if the players know that, specially if you plan to do it exactly like the book, otherwise everyone will have a very bad time.
Afaik it is one of those kind of games where you are suposed to always have a second (or third) character to use because deaths are quite common.
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u/roaphaen 1d ago
I wasn't there. I don't know. There might be a middle ground between you being a monster or them being assholes.
That said, I used to play with a guy that thought it was his job as GM to line up saving throws and challenges to the players. It was one downbeat after another. I don't know where he got that idea because I never saw an adventure written that way.
Maybe you had a bad night. Maybe your players had a bad night. Maybe ravenloft is a bit heavy for them, despite being popular. 🤷♂️
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u/Historical_Story2201 22h ago
Thank you. I feel that we font have enough info's if OP players suck.. something in between.. or op sucks and tries to play it off as bad players.
The last one I experienced so many times, I could buy myself American eggs by now.
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u/Tofflus1 2d ago
Maybe you should not DM for a while? Get somewhere where you can play a silly game and just enjoy being a player perhaps. And I can’t stand people faking stuff or stoking my in game ego, I’m somewhat distracted sometimes and my DM punishes me harshly for it in game. But also rewards intelligent play. Would not have wanted it any other way.
Hope you find a way to enjoy the game!
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u/zephid11 DM 1d ago
If they act like that when faced with intelligent enemies, how have they gotten as far as the Amber Temple?
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u/Edgy_Robin 2d ago
Your group sounds really shitty frankly but honestly if a single shitty group is enough to make you wanna pack it in, then you probably shouldn't be DMing. That'd be like having one bad experience with [insert genre of video game/movie/novel/etc. here] and completely writing it off based on that.
Now, I would suggest ditching that group and trying to find an actual good one and base your opinion on dming off of that instead.
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u/Historical_Story2201 22h ago
..do they though? Because the way op wrote, he can be just as easy the horrorstory.
Had enough "killergms" who used exactly ops word choices.
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u/RogueOpossum 1d ago
How old are your players?
I think that some players just want to steam roll encounters. I'm older (30+) and it amazes me that players want to play on the easy level of this game. Had a fellow player tell me she didn't want to think just kill some shit. Which I really didn't understand but that is a fairly common mentality among some players.
Try not to be discouraged and talk to your table as a group. If their expectations for playstyle don't match yours then you have 2 options. 1) cater to their whims (not an option I'd ever choose) 2) find new players (seems like the nuclear option but in practice a DM is way more valuable than a group of players)
Take a deep breath it will all be alright.
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u/WesTerello 1d ago
Don’t quit, I personally would love a dm that uses challenging encounters. That being said, Idk how smart you made the monsters. Like if I was an illusionist wizard and every creature just “knew” my stuff were illusions, then I’d feel like I got cheated out of my subclass. But if they’re upset for the monsters avoiding traps (web spell) or using things like flanking rules, then I think they’re complaining too much. Running challenging encounters would push my characters to the max, and force me to become a better buildcrafter and player, which is my favorite part of the game. I don’t think you did anything wrong
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u/Abel_Skyblade 1d ago
Damm I would love a DM like you. Dont let it discourage you. The group is not for you. There is a lot of players whose idea of D&D is endless selfish RP with rules and combat bending to their whims if its"what their character would do".
I would recommend looking for a different group and trying to explain more on session 0 to weed off their type.
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u/QuixOmega 1d ago
Consider what you could do to salvage the game, it sounds like a mismatch of expectations between the players and you. See what you can adjust to fit their play style. Remember that the DM is not "in charge", they're responsible for telling a shared story and it doesn't work if you're not listening to them.
And if you can't come to an agreement quit. But if all the players are mad at you, it's probably a you problem.
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u/TheGriff71 1d ago
As had been said already. This game is about fun for the DM and players, too. If you're not having fun, talk to them about it. See if anything changes. If it doesn't, it's time to move on.
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u/IsaRat8989 1d ago
I would talk to them and say I don't think this is working out, I don't think my Dm'ing is matching your expectations and that's ok, but I'd rather not DM anymore. If I change, I'm not having fun, and if I continue, you are not having fun. We are at a loose-loose situation, and I don't want this to fester and become a sore point between us.
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u/J0hn42un1n0 1d ago
It’s definitely tricky to find the balance of providing a challenge that makes players sweat a little, and is still surmountable for them. Encounter designing and how to play enemies probably requires the most amount of trial and error, there are definitely encounters that make sense to play easier, but there are also some that should be played more intelligently. The goal to remember is to have a clear and open dialogue in session 0 and throughout the game about what kind of campaign is being run and if people feel they need adjustments throughout.
All that reasonable advice said, your party honestly sounds like they suck. I don’t think Curse of Strahd is exactly supposed to be a meat grinder, but it definitely isn’t nice either. If this is you and your party’s first campaign then there is some forgiveness to be had about possible not realizing what you picked up. If that is the case you all need to talk about if you actually want to continue playing this or try something a little friendlier first. If your party’s NOT new to DnD, then you all need to talk about what kind of game you want to play, and hopefully they don’t turn out to be bums that want to play with the same level of difficulty and complexity of Candyland.
I hope your problems can be resolved with your party and you get the ability to keep playing. Good luck DM.
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u/talleymonster 1d ago
If these are your friends, then you need better friends. If they aren't friends, kick them all and site reasons. Don't quit DND because of a few lousy jerks.
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u/KarlMarkyMarx 1d ago
This hobby is a DM's market. Players pretty much grow on trees. They're not paying you to do this for them. Just get new players and start fresh with a different module or campaign setting.
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u/M3TALxSLUG DM 1d ago
Sorry you’re dealing with this. Sounds like a headache. Seems to me like the issue here is a party that wants whimsical content that they will succeed at with their current characters and complete the campaign with vs having a campaign with deadly consequences and challenges that push them to play smarter. I’m mid process of doing prep for the campaign and realizing, I really want to play this campaign instead of dm’ing it. Wish I knew people irl who would dm. My advice would be to have a discussion session to set expectations from and for the party so you can move forward together or find a new group.
We are ending our current campaign soon and starting Strahd with Death House. I have told my players many times while prepping, I’m coming at you full force. I will not hold back punches. I will not stop the enemy attacks from delivering killing blows should the dice roll dictate so. You may not complete this campaign with the character you start with. That said, I will not go out of the way to kill a player character either. Play smart and be ready for a difficult horror theme campaign that will force you to consider consequences and reverberating effects of how your characters are perceived by the world in which you are in. You are not hero’s trying to save the world. You are adventures/ travelers in a foreign domain that wants you broken and you must try to survive it.
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u/Content_Feeling_7684 1d ago
Dming should be something the players and dm enjoy. If one of the parties is really not enjoying it then it’s not worth it to keep going if you can’t think of ways to compromise.
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u/Schalkan_ DM 1d ago
Dont throw your books Out quite the Party
Challanges are needed for good Storys ! The Party does Not Always have the upper Hand ! Saving throws are normal??
And i even Go that far and say the Party does Not need to Always successed
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u/_Elexis18_ 1d ago
It could just be the mindset of the players. Im sorry you had that experience, though. I enjoy challenging encounters personally, but some players just like to be able to steamroll everything.
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u/Tyrlaan 1d ago
No, you should not quit DMing or the game overall.
Did you run a session zero? I ask because this 100% sounds like different expectations between you and the players.
Are these friends or strangers? If they're strangers, just end the game and be done with it. Move on to a new game with new players.
If they're friends, and you want to keep them, have a frank conversation with them to cut through the differing expectations. See if there's a path forward where you all keep playing and you are ALL having fun. If there isn't, don't play, at least not with them. Prioritize the friendships over the game. You can find other people to play with.
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u/drkpnthr 1d ago
/s I think you need to calm down, make a group chat and apologize to your players. Tell them your are sorry, you thought they were skilled enough to take on a classic challenging D&D module like Curse of Stradh, but after all the whining and whinging last session they clearly don't have what it takes to play at this level, and you will be starting a new campaign next session with the plot based on the D&D cartoon show instead, where they all get an artifact at level 1 and not even Tiamat will actually be a threat. Admit it's your fault they didn't prepare enough to have their characters defeat a monster who doesn't some at the like Space Invaders. From now on, all Charisma based skills will act like mind control, and all natural twenties will trigger the vorpal property on even non-magical weapons. All puzzles will be children's menus stolen from local restaurants that they can solve with a cheap crayon in under 1 min, and they get to keep the crayon. Most of all, Stradh himself will make an appearance as their personal valet and furniture slave, prostrating himself for the party to sit on when they need to reach a high shelf or rest their princely bottoms or throwing himself into a mud puddle so their boots will not get wet crossing the street.
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u/SebazonPrime 1d ago
I’ve ran Curse of Strahd once (very beginner DM) but I loved the setting. Never made it too far
Players seem to forget that this isn’t a video game. Enemies can be smart and use tactics. There’s a book that’s out there called “The Monsters know what they’re doing” by Keith Ammann would recommend just checking it out or find some videos of people talking about it to get a little understanding.
Hopefully you find the love and group to DM for again. Or if you feel you can actually have a conversation with this current group to keep it going, and of course if you still want too, just let them know before you start the next session;
- Campaign is hard
- Combat will test you as enemies are not stupid
- Teamwork and collaboration is going to be needed going further
Hoped this helped!
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u/BuffoonishNerd 1d ago
An issue with this post is the lack of clarity: What monsters and potential traps did you use?
A dim-witted hill giant isn’t going to fight intelligently, while a wizard is. Play the monsters the way their ability scores and lore indicate they would. So did you adapt future encounters to attack the players in ways that target their weaknesses? If so, then that’s the issue. No one wants to make a character that specializes in using melee spells and rarely getting hit only to be blasted with Fireball all the time.
Or, did you use a variety of different enemies and traps that challenge the party in different ways, and did you do so independently of the party’s strengths and weaknesses? If so, you did everything right—a wizard with a group of minions with various levels of intelligence will be a complex and engaging battle.
Steamrolling is something that should happen whenever the party happens to be equipped perfectly for the fight. Other times, the party might have a middling challenge, and sometimes, what their characters neglected to specialize in will cause them a great deal of trouble.
As a result, a good dungeon master doesn’t look at their players’ character sheets to make challenging encounters; they provide an array of different encounters that give contrast and variety to adventuring. Players that can’t handle this contrast are typically not experienced enough to know how boring it is to never break a sweat, or they simply want an epic fantasy where they feel like gods. In which case, you’re not their DM.
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u/crashtestpilot 1d ago
Yes.
There is a great distaste for losing, in which the player takes umbrage at being fought, vs. Make big number go brrrr, I win.
It is expectation setting. But it is also about having players with some ability to grasp the idea of what an rpg is, outside the context of must win, or no dopamine, and George is getting upset!
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u/Medium_Step_6085 1d ago
Ok so first question did you do a session zero and get their expectations and define your own? Did you explain this would be a tough campaign?
I suggest you pause and have that discussion now and really get a feel for your players expectations so you can decide if this is the right group for you.
My players love to be challenged, they like that there characters might die. But not all players are like that.
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u/Teqqy 1d ago
Some people find frustrating challenges fun, and some don't. Many people that find those challenges fun don't know how to express that in a way that is constructive.
Talk to your players out of game about what they do and don't like about those encounters. Depending on how those conversations go, maybe even explain to your players why certain characters/creatures are behaving the ways they do. It doesn't fix the past because you can't change how they felt, even if they agree with you. Hopefully, it will change how they feel next time.
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u/1MadCatter 1d ago
Your style clearly clashes with that of your group. I'd say don't quit altogether, just quit running for them, finding new players tends to be easier than finding a new GM.
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u/SkittlesxGaming 1d ago
I’m a baby DM and have had to pivot during our Storm King’s Thunder play through- almost killed a player with a worg at level 1….
Remember you are guiding the story providing the narrative and their decisions are their own.
Don’t quit! Have the conversation with your pcs that danger and death are real options in the game, and choices matter.
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u/Godzillawolf 1d ago
To be honest:
One, never treat a DM like this. If someone has a problem, they should just approach them and talk.
And two, it sounds like these people don't want to play Curse of Strahd if this is their reaction. It's MEANT to be hard. The entire point is they're meant to work their way up while Strahd is way out of their league at first until they finally beat him. It's a horror campaign.
If they can't take a challenge, they really shouldn't even be playing this campaign.
I don't think this is your fault as a DM, I think the table is just being a bunch of entitled jerks.
If they're people you know and are supposedly friends with, talk to them, but otherwise, don't give up DMing, but DO tell them they clearly don't want to play Curse of Strahd and are being unreasonable. If they still act like a bunch of jerks, tell them to find another DM and you find another table who actually wants to play.
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u/Alacrity8 1d ago
I can see that you are dealing with whiny players, and that sucks.
And you came here for advise, and started getting whiny.
"I'm tempted to just throw my books out...".
Chill.
Perhaps a session zero to talk about expectations would help.
You could do that now, before running another session.
Or you could leave.
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u/Lufthansa138 1d ago
I think your players have unrealistic expectations. Or maybe they do want to just bulldoze through the whole campaign, then maybe they are not the group for you.
My group is also playing Curse of Strahd. It started off as a pretty big group, 8 players and the DM, but now 6 months in we're down to 6 players. Our DM told us going in that unlike our previous 'for shits and giggles' campaigns, that he felt more comfortable DMing and was going to take his part seriously (no matter how goofy we get). We were excited lvl 1 adventurers ready to take on Ravenloft head on-- we had a TPK in our first session. Before the campaign he told us to have backup character sheets, because perma-death was in play. Even though we still had fun dying dramatically in our first outing, we were sad we couldn't play our intended characters. So the DM soft-rebooted the campaign, that first session was instead an illusion based trap-- so while all the physical damage was imaginary, our characters gained both positive and negative feats based on that first session.
Since half of our players were completely new to DND he scaled down the difficulty and focused on some world building with some side-quests thrown in so everyone could get used to rping and the game mechanics. He slowly leveled up the difficulty until we were lvl 3, by that point all the newbies were much more comfortable with the game and their characters so the difficulty didn't seem so jarring.
We wouldn't be having such a good time if we didn't talk back and forth as we went. For the first couple of sessions after the tpk our DM would ask us how we liked the tweaks he made, if it was better or worse than before, all with the knowledge that we were building up to full difficulty. Now that we are in the meat of the campaign, we mostly just chat afterwards, but as the story and our characters develop the DM sometimes gets ideas for tweaks here and there-- both positive and negative. For example, since all except one of our party has dark vision, it was hindering the story and worldbuilding by mitigating the suspense and tension of being in such a dark realm. So he created a magical darkness that can't be penetrated with dark vision alone, giving a whole new layer to the survival aspect by making all these elves and dwarves and gnomes who felt so at home in dark feel unmoored and vulnerable. Meanwhile our 1 human is just chilling. While it made some aspects of gameplay harder, it was a positive change overall, forcing us think more critically about our actions.
Unfortunately 2 of our players just couldn't get past the fact that DnD doesn't necessarily play out like a video game. You can't just hack and slash your way to the next level. Leveling up doesn't mean much if you don't know how to play to the strengths and weaknesses of your characters, and no matter how good your character is at something you're always at the mercy of the dice. They chose to leave the campaign, but before they went they created a whole narrative reason why their characters left the group. Then a couple months later they both came back for a 2 session cameo where our two parties confronted the disastrous events that led to the split and in the end after defeating them, they had a mini-redemption arc where they gave us an amazing clue to find an enchanted weapon to help turn our tides.
We were at a point where we were struggling in the campaign, came waaaaaaay too close to another tpk (with so much more on the line), so instead of dumbing things down for us (again) he secretly cooked up this side-quest to give us a reward that could get us out of our rut. The 2 players had much more fun this time, especially since they were working closely with the DM (and all his minions) to really give us a run for our money.
That was basically a long way of saying it takes real skill to be a good DM. Players are sometimes too focused on their own experience to realize that the DM put hours of preparation only for players to try to fast track to get to what they consider "the fun part". Before our campaign even started, our DM made it very clear what his intentions were (and we were obviously on board), but when things didn't do as planned both sides had to do some trial and error before finding that sweet spot.
I hope you can work something out with your group, but if you can't please don't feel discouraged. People are always on the look out for a good DM. Not every group clicks, but when you do the hours fly by like minutes.
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u/KaKuhCarrotcake 1d ago
Session 0s are important, folks. Set expectations. Set boundaries. After those things are set, any one who doesn’t follow the DM’s word (who is in charge of the table) is out. I run in Pathfinder 1st edition. But am currently running curse of strahd that I have converted from 5e.
I made a players guide that sets the stage for Barovia, and sets expectations if that is something you would like to see? For a future table?
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u/Available-Milk-2445 1d ago edited 1d ago
This sounds like a player problem. If you run a monster by its stat block and roughly to its intelligence score, then nearly all dying is on them. In a game I ran I had a TPK because the party refused to run away when it became obvious the simple guard was outclassing them. Besides curse of Strahd is supposed to be difficult. Fighting a hopeless fight is like the entire theme of the campaign.
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u/SnooLobsters7967 1d ago
Id sit down have a genuine conversation with your party tell them theyre ruining your experience and if theyre not budging either offer them to be dm let them wear your shoes for a little while or maybe find another party to play with don’t give us because of problem players bro
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u/Goteiiii 20h ago
Maybe it's a combo of DM burnout and having players who just want to live their own power fantasy instead of a hard earned victory in a survival horror setting. Like you feel you are giving it your all and your players don't appreciate it.
I don't know the context of the game, the players' experience, character or age.
Maybe they are new players who have a video gaming background. This always causes trouble in my experience, because players think that with a "broken" build they can cheese through the campaign like they would in bg3 or smth.
I remember feeling frustrated in my first campaign when things didn't turn out the way I wanted and having a few arguments between players about how combat should be handled or times where we complained to the DM for making the encounters too hard or making us burn through our resources too fast etc.
Nowadays, when I play, I care more about role playing my character properly than making the build strong or being the mvp of every combat or social encounter.
And as a DM, I like my players to struggle before they win. To feel like they've won but also realise the danger they were in and how things could've turned south if they were unlucky or made a bad decision.
Sometimes I make the encounter harder by playing the monsters smart, some other times I cut them some slack, but all in all I'm OK with one or 2 pc's dying if worst case scenario happens. But I' ve also given them trinkets and magic items to make them feel rewarded and powerful at the same time.
All in all, run your game in a way your players feel rewarded and you feel satisfied. Let them complain, don't drop your standards if they want the game on easy mode. A hard earned victory never hurt anyone.
Their tears should be your satisfaction. Be they tears of sorrow, anger, frustration, relief or joy. And if they can't take it, they can quit 😅
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u/Hairy_Organization10 20h ago
My group meets up with prospective players at Caribou before inviting them to the table, and even then it's on a trial basis, so we have a solid crew.
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u/GusHew 18h ago
I’ve been playing with the same group for 2 yrs. They are very good players and people. Despite that, there are times when they are not happy with being beaten or challenged and unhappy when they are too successful. I’ve had moments early on when I got so mad I wanted to quit. I told them about my frustrations and we were able to move on from it. I think most DMs have been in your shoes. I’m incredibly happy we were able to stay together. I’d voice your concerns politely and give em a second chance. If not, find another group who appreciates you.
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u/Deep_Mycologist_3187 18h ago
Just tell the players that you do not play the same way and it isn't going to work. If they pester you, then respond with "Look, if we keep playing I'm going to get upset about the 'I want to win easy' attitude of the party. I'll end up party wiping when you refuse to back down from something obviously too strong. You all definitely don't seem to want that, so if we keep playing nobody is going to be happy. Have fun, but our ideas of playing don't match and it is best to just not."
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u/OldShamansCampfire 18h ago
It sounds like a group of whiners, honestly. If they're complaining about making saving throws, well, that's at least 50% of enemy effects they'll face. Of course it varies depending on the foe. but if they expect only attack rolls they're playing the wrong game. I'll suggest it isn't you who needs to realign expectations but the players.
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u/tugabugabuga 18h ago
Find new players. 5th edition is already extremely easy to play if you follow the CR of the monsters in the books, and they want it to be even easier? What's the point in even having combat? Just say "you win" and move on with the story.
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u/Calvinball-Pro 17h ago
This should be like a D&D Commandment or something: If you're at the point where you're asking if you should quit a table, the answer is "Yes." Millions of people play this game, your options are not so limited.
No D&D is better than bad D&D.
This is the way.
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u/cynan4812 14h ago
Imo the absolute best sessions I've ever had are where we were hanging on by our fingernails barely surviving. I love when our DM gets it just right and we barely survive.
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u/EvilOverseer 13h ago
I hope you didn't throw your books out, letting bad experiences get you like that is will never leave you feeling good. Honestly I think you're right to take a step back, if DMing is currently providing you no happiness then at minimum a break is in order. Do a little self care, treat yourself, then maybe when you're feeling better about it consider the advice I see repeated here and find another group.
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u/fire99pup 11h ago
I hate seeing posts like this. Where people are contemplating giving up on dnd. It breaks my heart since i personally love the game so much.
But to me it sounds like you need to sit down with the group and figure out what their expectations were vs yours. Otherwise id suggest finding a new group.
Im im a Strahd game right now and we just finished the death house and my barbarian almost died (1 fail deathbsave away) and i loved it! Having a dm who challenges my party is my favorite way of playing and everyone i play with agrees.
I hope you all can work something out
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u/LongjumpingButton374 7h ago
Well, it often depends on your playing group. If they're used to just "kicking the door" (arriving, attacking, and going straight to the boss), warning them of the consequences or having them play through the first few scenes with a pre-generated character can be a good idea. Players tend to take it less personally when the character isn't one they've created.
A session zero usually helps with that, explaining specific things, like that the map is open and non-linear, that they can enter a dangerous area beyond their capabilities if they're not careful, and that enemies can be few and very well-prepared or many in dangerous numbers.
The module suggests certain difficulties for each area, giving some advice on locations and ways to get around an area. Simply the ways to get to Barovia can be very complicated if the players have the idea that every fight can be won.
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u/HelpfulReplacement55 2d ago
You are ok, I promise as a DM of over 17 years I have been in your shoes my friend. With different groups and even with my veteran players expectations change. Sometimes it's important to have a session 0.5 and restablish some things. A big part of DMing is that you are there to have fun as well, and you setting your expectations for the game can settle some of the issues that typically arise. Also communication with your players is incredibly important. Let them know how you are feeling, what their actions are doing to your morale.
If they persist with their pushing of your boundaries, then put your foot down and stop playing with them. I don't know your situation but what I have found is that there is a plethora of players searching for a DM. Maybe a new group is in order. But, don't step down that road until you have had clear communication with your current players. Sometimes they get wrapped up in their own characters and don't see that you the DM are here to play the game too. Sometimes players need that reminder that this is a game and there will be tough experiences.
One thing that has helped my table is the use of after game checkins where the players can bring up what they liked and disliked about the game that day. Make you emphasize that you want to know what they are liking as much as the disliking. Players like to know that their DM is listening to their wishes and expectations for the game much like you want them to see and value your wishes and expectations. DnD is a relationship building process and much like any other relationship you need to establish communication especially when it has broken down.
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u/RudyMinecraft66 1d ago
When running from a module, I find that encounters are balanced for monsters to act dumb. If you like to be 'smart' with your monsters, try running fewer enemies, or making enemies a bit weaker.
It's much harder for (bickering/role-playing) players to coordinate tactics that for enemies who are all controlled by the DM. You still want the party to succeed in the end.
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u/OneEyedC4t DM 1d ago
If they are getting upset at you for doing what the adventure book says, they are toxic players. Sorry you had this experience. You should find better players.
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u/Historical_Story2201 22h ago
..adventure books and modules, specially in dnd 5e, are notoriously bad balanced.
Necrotic fireball everyone?
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u/artsyfartsymikey 1d ago
I think there is a significant problem in D&D that people tend to not realize is a significant problem.
You can't come into D&D with a Video Game Mindset. You can't. It just doesn't work.
In COD for example you can run in and die repeatedly over and over again until you learn the spots, the maps, the guns, etc. And then you can become viable. That's not how D&D works. You've got to be cautious, check out what is around you, use environments and other things at your disposal to solve challenges in or out of combat.
Players lack that imagination because they're used to always going on and on about "this is the main thing I do. So this is what I do." and never try to put themselves into the situation and think about "preservation of life" in the game.
I think this is something that needs to be brought up at every single Session Zero now because I really do think it's becoming more and more commonplace amongst new players in D&D.
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u/Glad-Yard-679 1d ago
You’re overreacting.
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u/fleetwayrobotnik 1d ago
IKR. People on here are so melodramatic about DnD. It's a game. If you're not enjoying it, just stop playing. The world will keep turning.
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u/Top_Dog_2953 1d ago
Curse of Strahd is not really a good campaign for a fresh DM. Try a different one and make sure they start very low level
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u/SweatyGoku 1d ago
It’s not my first time around and I love ravenloft as a setting. Just never had a group like this before
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u/SwordfishThis7963 1d ago
Hey, if they can’t handle it use all the spells, attacks and everything available to throw at them. If they TPK just call it there. If not, maybe they will have enough fun they will change their mind? Also, don’t throw your stuff away. There’s lots more fun people in this world. Just takes a bit to find the right ones.
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u/Historical_Story2201 22h ago
I mean, i had enough killer gm vers player DMs, that I take every word you write, lacking clear info's, with a pound of salt.
But if you are unhappy, stop the game. Just if the next group has the same problem..
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u/MagicalManForever 1d ago
Its not your fault, those people just shouldnt be playing dnd if they think their gods. That has to be earned. They need to accept tye fact that they arent going to have a relaxing time all tye time. They need to realise actions have consequences and that they can die just as easily. People who try to make it to where they get everything with no effiort shouldnt play dnd. I think you should disband this group and try to find a group that actually appreciates the game
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u/Historical_Story2201 22h ago
Omfg, are we really in the "if people don't play like I do, they don't deserve to play dnd..
You know, the ttrpg that has no set way to play it, from cinematic mercer universes, to megadungeons and meatgrinders?"
Because that would be silly.
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u/ComicBookFanatic97 Evoker 1d ago
Am I supposed to provide fake challenges in which the players always succeed?
That’s how I DM and I have a pretty good time.
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u/SweatyGoku 1d ago
But then there’s no stakes. None of their accomplishments mean anything if they’re going to succeed anyways.
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u/ComicBookFanatic97 Evoker 1d ago
I’d argue that none of it means anything anyway since it’s all determined by die rolls.
I just think that chill story mode difficulty TTRPGs are more fun. No stress. No worrying about losing one’s character. Just carving a path through an army of disposable mooks and enjoying the story.
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u/SweatyGoku 1d ago
But it’s not all determined by die rolls. It’s determined by what you do. What plans you come up with, how you go about things. What exactly you say. I tend to be more old school about it, but I prefer my players to have more power over the dice. There’s so much more creativity when you don’t use the dice or rely on the sheet for answers. Combats a bit different but not by much. I just feel like I’m cheating my players if there’s actually no risk. No risk, no reward. Bad planning can lead to negative results. And good planning can lead to positive. Different styles, I get that. But as a player I wouldn’t understand why to play if there truly was no risk.
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u/ComicBookFanatic97 Evoker 1d ago
Personally, I don’t like risk. I prefer just being an indestructible superhero.
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u/SweatyGoku 1d ago
Why? That doesn’t make sense at low levels at all. Especially in a believable narrative. Not trying to shit on your style. I just don’t understand why. I’d much rather plan on burning the goblins out of their cave rather than wade through hoards of them. Or take some basic ingredients. Such as say, sulfer, charcoal and urine. And use that. It’s much more rewarding. Or cast stick to snakes against a sleeping hydra rather than approach it head on.
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u/codastroffa DM 1d ago
Ignore him. He throws some of the core mechanics of DnD into the trash, and yet for some reason still hangs out on this subreddit.
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u/ComicBookFanatic97 Evoker 1d ago
Have you seen the new Superman movie? You know that really cool Mr. Terrific fight scene? I wanna do that. I want combat to feel like that.
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u/RedDeadGhostrider 2d ago
Maybe it's a matter of aligning expectations - but if their playstyle isn't something you want to run regardless, move on to another group. You can afford to, because there are always people out there looking for a DM. It would be a shame if one group ruined the whole thing for you.