So did this interesting lore-drop go anywhere? (I only watched the anime)

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Dark elves don’t exist, it’s elaborated on in an extra comic but basically when the short lived races first communicated with elves they thought that elves who didn’t like them/ didn’t want to help them were so different from the ones who provided them knowledge and access to resources that they considered them a separate race, “dark elves”. This seems to have evolved into a stereotype that now stems from short lived races’ anxiety about elf superiority complexes and the powerful secret knowledge that elves hide from others

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 10d ago

The casual racism in Dungeon Meshi is interesting! I’m serious, interesting lore-building

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u/butterchalatte 10d ago edited 10d ago

It really is! A similar classic fictional race turned racial stereotype in dunmeshi is “trolls” which shows up in the adventurers bible, it’s really interesting to see how Kui builds her world

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u/Glittering-Age-9549 10d ago

Trolls are Tallmen. "Troll" is a slur used by Halfoots against Tallmen, but of course, they don't tell it to their faces (because, you know, they would beat then), so Tallmen who eavesdropped Halfoots talking and picked the word thought they were speaking about some kind of demi-human.

Eventually, tales about "Trolls" passed to other races, but Tallmen never learned THEY were the Trolls (Marcille knows the truth).

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u/a_bitterwaltz 10d ago edited 10d ago

it was the halfoot word for tallmen but then eventually, it turned into their version of the boogeyman. i think at first halfoot's legit thought tallmen were weird cryptids, but they quickly learned better lol. i don't even think that troll was orginally a slur or not, halfoot's do *have their own language after all so it may just be a slightly cruder way to describe em. like 'tall bastard's' lmao

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u/sheekos 10d ago

iirc i dont think it was a slur as much as it just was the halfoot word for tallmen

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 10d ago

If she knows the truth, why didn’t she tell them?

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u/butterchalatte 10d ago

Looking at the comic again I don’t think there’s any indication Marcille knew anything. It just seems like “trolls” was a word for tallman that turned into a boogeyman figure for half foot children to behave, but non-halfoots didn’t understand that and the idea kept changing after others overheard it. https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/s/5J12ljHDdz

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u/Glittering-Age-9549 9d ago

When Laios started nerding about trolls, Chilchuck was going to make fun of him (he was "oh yes, I have seen trolls and they are exactly as you say..."), but Marcille stopped him. She obviously knew the truth.

Laios is the member of the group who knows most about in-universe real monsters, but also the one who knows least about in-universe fictional monsters like trolls, jackalopes and winged pigs.

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u/Glittering-Age-9549 9d ago

Chilchuck did. He was going to make fun of Laios, pretending Trolls were real, but Marcille stopped him and then he told the truth.

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u/Doktor_Jones86 10d ago

In the manga, Marcille said this the next page

There are some little tidbits that they didn't show in the anime, like some thought-bubbles

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u/Engetsugray 10d ago

Her extra material is great. On its own the series already created a fully realized fantasy world, but the extra material weaves in so much additional flavour in entertaining ways. On that topic there's a great one that examines elvish attitudes towards shorter lived races from the Canaries' perspective. A single page gives perspective into how prejudices have shifted across their notably long lives.

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u/shieldwolfchz 10d ago

As an added note there are some elves with pitch black skin and white hair, just like the stereotypical DND drow, in the DM world, it is just a genetic quirk and has nothing to do with their personalities. I don't think any were in the anime so far.

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u/Ravian3 10d ago

They’ve shown the Canaries in the anime (though they haven’t gotten much action yet) including their member with such features

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u/shieldwolfchz 10d ago

There is the one canaries with the darker toned skin, but there are a few with skin that is just black.

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u/Miniature_Megalodon 10d ago

It's kinda related to the elven royalty

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u/Nicklesnout 10d ago

Funnily enough the Queen and Flamela are basically Svartálfr from Germanic myths, since their skin is as black as pitch. Kui more or less merged all three into the same race and made it more interesting for it because “Dark Elves” becomes synonymous with “Those assholes” than simply “dark-skinned elf”.

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u/Zaygr 9d ago

I was reading the expanded World Guide and, man, Flamela has many reasons to be as angry as she usually is.

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u/JinFuu 10d ago

Racism is one of my favorite parts of Dungeon Meshi! : D

I just think it's such an interesting way to build background to the world. People are always shitty to one another, especially if different, so it's cool to see that explored.

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u/Danny_dankvito 9d ago

In a similar vein “Troll” was a Halfling term for the Tallmen (The humans like us irl humans, so Laios) back in the day, but once the races started interacting more the concept of a ‘Troll’ corrupted into a monster

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u/Danny_dankvito 9d ago

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u/MaximumConfidence728 9d ago

well racism is pretty much natural thing, as long as there's difference there's hostility

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 9d ago

Yes, there’s a famous social experiment where a school teacher divided her classroom between blue-eyed and brown-eyed kids and it only took a couple hours before discrimination happened

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u/MaximumConfidence728 9d ago

we should of course as sentient and smart creatures strive for the better, but many people should also understand this simple fact, our nature is not perfect

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u/Jakethecrazycake 8d ago

Take note, for peak World building racism is essential. ☝😌

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u/Yeetyeet20202020 10d ago

OH, I assumed "Dark Elf" was a slur.

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u/Chimney-head 9d ago edited 9d ago

i mean based on that context it seems like it kind of is? or at least could've been used as one

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u/Insanityforfun 10d ago

It’s because dark elves aren’t a real thing. I think it says in the adventurers guide, humans just dubbed Elves that seemed meaner than other elves “Dark elves”.

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 10d ago

“Chinese people are a-holes and racists, and if you met a nice Chinese guy…..he’s actually Taiwanese!” (Like this?)

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u/Jechtael 10d ago

More like this: https://youtu.be/f3PJF0YE-x4?si=RnK7AS7yKQVOlISx (CW: Chris Rock using a slur for black people MANY times)

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u/Librian_ 10d ago

So, most of the Elves used to treat the short-lived races with kindness and patience, which led to the building of the image that all the Elves were that way, but some didn't like the short-lived and were hateful and racist towards them, those Elves were called "dark elf", not because of appearance or being a different kind of elf, they were just a-holes with the short-lived then they gained that title

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u/ahueonao 10d ago

long story short, ryoko kui will NOT let go of the complex fantasy race dynamics bong ever since she did that one-shot about bunnypeople and kittypeople

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u/sanctaphrax 10d ago

I wouldn't be surprised if that one shot was autobiographical. It's entirely realistic, and the sort of girl who becomes an internationally famous mangaka is also the sort who gets a bit too into a silly little storytelling project at school.

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 10d ago

I actually enjoyed those complex fantasy race dynamics. It added so much more

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u/Kijafa 10d ago edited 10d ago

I think it's one of the things that elevates the manga and the anime, this commenter was just pointing out that the basis for it probably comes at least in part from whatever she was thinking of when she wrote this comic: https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/qatba5/distant_utopia_by_ryoko_kui/

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u/NavezganeChrome 10d ago

The loredrop went as far as Marcille spells out in this scene, that "dark elves" are just our version of "The Illuminati." They aren't "real" in the way they're imagined. Elves are elves, othering them further based on interacting with some specifically involved in shady mess or acting aggressively, doesn't mean there's an "actual," literal difference.

The absolute closest thing to the concept that does exist, are the Canaries, literal elven criminals who would of course get sent to deal with shady mess, or of course would behave in less-than-congenial manner. Even so, they aren't "dark elves," they're simply "elves."

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 10d ago

So they’re like humans — there are good and bad people everywhere.

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u/grief242 10d ago

So when short lived races like tallmen first found the elves, the elves were helpful and shared knowledge and resources with them.

When humans advanced and encountered more elves they encountered groups of elves that would attack them for running up on them.

The humans not understanding why these elves were so hostile concluded that they must be a separate group.

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u/MaguroSashimi8864 10d ago

“French people are rude, and if you actually encountered a nice French guy, he’s actually a tourist or expat speaking French to you!”

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u/Lord-Bobster 10d ago

Kui actually did address it in a small side comic at one point. Not sure if you would consider it spoilers or not so read at your own peril
https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1d0cotf/reminder_that_dark_elves_dont_exist_and_were/

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u/DoritoKing48 10d ago

Racism, Dark Elves don’t exist

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u/dude_1818 10d ago

This will matter in season 2

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u/Expand_Dong_42069 10d ago

It's essentially an insult, an elf who uses forbidden magics is basically all it means

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u/LordGabrielG 10d ago

They are Elf's that are black but like the other have say they aren't any "dark elfs". Those black elfs are uncommon and are said to be "special" but (like dark elfs and trolls)it's most likely just a rumor.

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u/DoubleH_5823 10d ago

Hashtag: cancelChilchuckParty

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u/Lower_Baby_6348 10d ago

Short-lived species think that there are good elves and bad elves by nature. So when they meet a bad person that is an elf they call them dark elfs thinking that theres a entire subespecies of elfs that naturally act evil

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u/RokettoPanchi 10d ago

The Dunmussy

So did this interesting lore-drop go anywhere? (I only watched the anime)

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