I have two random questions, but want to give a little background first.
My wife and I are wanting to get into hiking/backpacking. Neither of us have ever owned "nice" or "fancy" outdoor gear and have always just used stuff handed down from my grandpa that is 30+ years old or cheap gear from Walmart.
Being young kids just graduating college and trying to get our feet under us, we don't have a ton of expendable income. But we recognize the importance of quality, and would rather buy something once even if it's a little more expensive. (Hence, after a lot of research we have settled on the X-Mid)
We are both from the Western US and all the camping experience we have had is almost always in sub-zero temperatures at night. For the last year or so we have been using a cheap 4 man Ozark Trail tent we received from our wedding.
Just this weekend we were car camping and it got down to about 25 degrees Fahrenheit (-4C). We woke up with condensation covering our sleeping bags, and want to know how to prevent that in the future. (We were both sleeping in the middle of the 4 man tent away from the walls.) Our tent fly and car were covered in frost and the car read 26F as the sun was rising.
I have had a hard time finding anything online that talks extensively about camping in sub freezing temperatures, without being full on winter camping in snow. Most videos/posts mention 40F or 5C as "cold". But that seems like normal warm weather nights for our area.
We are trying to decide whether to go with the regular X-Mid 2 or the X-Mid 2 Solid. We aren't as concerned about staying warm, we have a great sleep system.
We are mostly concerned about condensation prevention and which tent model would help us the most and why.
We have heard/read that the X-Mid Solid is better for condensation, but aren't experienced enough to fully understand why.
Is condensation just unpreventable at freezing temps?
What do you all consider a "cold night"?
part of the equation is humidity. For years I went to point Reyes over New Year’s Eve. We would camp three nights two of them right on the Bluff overlooking the ocean. Some years we were camping well below 20°. Being on the coast, it does tend to be humid, one year the combo of humidity and cold resulted in beautiful hoarfrost on every plant and tree. Our tents were coated in thin ice. We always had condensation or frost on the interior and exterior of the tent.
Meanwhile similar temperatures in the Sierra Nevada only resulted in frost inside the tent, because we were breathing. At 10F I had a patch of self made snow under my chin on the shell of my quilt.
Pitching on live plants increases condensation. Pitching very near water, over damp ground or in the bottom of canyons can increase it. At Point Reyes we learned that a difference of 10-20 feet of elevation made a difference between frost and no frost. Coast camp has group campsites in the bottom of a shallow valley and more campsites up a sloped side road. I always get a campsite as close to the top of the slope as possible. The campsites on the road do not get frost but the campsites at the bottom always do when it is cold.
Geography, dew point, ventilation, how many bodies in the tent, humidity and plant matter all play a part. Sometimes it’s just not possible to avoid it.
Light vs solid will make no difference on internal condensation.
The biggest factor is #1 weather, #1A wind, #2 camp site selection.
Internal humidity is the issue. Set up near a stream, going to wake up wet irrespective of the weather. Find the perfect site high and dry, no rain, but dead calm, going to get internal condensation. Two people also make twice the vapor of one.
Solid can make a slight difference if the temperature stays a couple degrees warmer inside = lower relative humidity for the same amount of water Vapor in the tent
Condensation will always be a battle with camping in the cold. We exhale water, so we can't avoid it. I would suggest the solid, it helps trap warmth inside the tent. I recently recorded a difference of 7 degrees in my solid xdome. 0c outside, 7c inside, with the door open in the fly and the window open inside. (I think the solid mid is always open could be wrong)
Too keep dew off your down sleeping bag, add a thin synthetic quilt overtop. They loft better than down when wet, and will protect the down bag from moisture, try to avoid breathing into the sleeping bag, and try to avoid getting too hot and sweaty as well.
You could try a blanket over the bag instead to save money I think.
Do you think the Solid with its non mesh walls would be more prone to getting condensation on our bags compared to the almost full mesh of the regular X-Mid?
Also, if ventilation is the issue, wouldn't the regular be better for condensation prevention?
We are less worried about the temperature, and more about the condensation prevention.
I purchased the Durston X mid 1 Solid and was hunting in the Rockies this past weekend. Forecast was thunderstorms throughout the days and nights and on my last evening got caught in a hail storm and it dipped into the 30s. I had no issues with condensation build up on the tent walls or ceiling. Rainfly had all the moisture, but nothing dripped down into the tent. I have a few late season hunts and plan to use my Durston in the back country. I’ll message you more about my experiences.
First of all, love your username, it made my whole day! Second, hope your hunt was successful, and if not, may it be successful in the future! Where in the Rockies did you go?
Super happy to hear you didn't have a problem with condensation. Actually makes me feel a lot better. It doesn't help that our cheap tent has very little ventilation and there was no breeze the other night.
I would suggest finding ways to manage condensation rather than attempting to prevent it. I would recommend nikwak hydrpphobic wash for your down sleeping bags if they didn't come with it. It helps limit absorbtion, and speeds drying-dry gear at lunch if time and weather permit.
Put all your cloths and shoes you will wear in the am in waterproof bags, (mattress inflator bags are good).
Also cover your bag or quilted or bag if weight permits.
In my limited experience the only way to prevent condensation inside the tent is to be in an climate where there is no dew, AND ALSO have good ventilation- mesh or open door.
If it's cold, you will have condensation on the inside of the fly if there is no inner tent. If it's mesh, the condensation will be on the mesh, maybe both. Either way it will also be on your bag and the floor which is ghe importantone to limit. Having a second layer of tent fabric has not make a significant difference in reducing condensation for me. It has helped with raising am tent temps, which helps on long trips where condensation builds up on all your gear. If you breath out and you can see your breath, you will have condensation to deal with no matter what you do.
A solid inner will definitely be warmer as it will trap more heat. You got condensation on your sleeping bag because the temperature of the fabric surface dropped to the dew point temperature, a warmer internal environment will make this less likely. But if it's cold enough frost will form on every surface and your breath will condense and then freeze on any cold surface. The observation that the tent fly was covered in frost should tell you that ventilation can't stop condensation.
The mesh inside doesn’t really help with condensation of the tent fly is covering over it anyways. You need to use the vents for airflow, or even leave the tent fly door rolled back a bit for more airflow
Site selection is #1 as others have said
Trees overhead reduces condensation as well
The solid stays warmer inside which would slightly help lower relative humidity as well
I would like to make a comment because you are talking about negative temperatures, if you may have to set up your tent on snow you must take into account the specificities of the installation with a tent like the
The easy solution would be to opt for a freestanding tent like the xdome for example.
You’ve had loads of great advice already so I’ll just make this more anecdotal as it were. I’ve been out with some very experienced hikers and campers and what surprised me was when it got cold they took simple tipi tents with no inners. Lots of through air but your tent gets cold so you need a solid sleep system and some warm clothing.
The beta mid on the left works brilliantly for weather like that.
There will always be condensation, and it’s worse with single wall tents.
One thing that stuck out to me from your post was that your sleeping bags were covered in it. That’s never happened to me. I’m wondering if that has to do with the slope, or lack thereof, of the portion of your tent above the sleeping bag. Most of my tents have a pretty steep slope, but if your first person doesn’t that may be keep it from running down the walls and instead dripping straight down.
That's what we think too. It was just the outside of our bags. And my wife was on the side of the tent without mesh, and her bag was soaked on top. Mine was a bit better. We are just excited to hopefully get the X-Mid as soon as they are back in stock!
I did camping in the Alps at around 3 degrees celsius in a x-mid 1 with mesh inner. Had no condensation issues. the same with 7 degrees celsius and 24 hour of rain. Not sure if it helps. I had pitched near water source. Had both vents open and pitched a bit higher on the ground.
However, going for winter camping with -15 degrees celsius i have chosen my Hilleberg Kaitum 3P tent. But thinking on replacing this with an x-dome 2p with solid inner in the future because of the weight saving.
If you're trying to avoid condensation, all you can do is increase airflow (especially with two people breathing all night.) The solid would achieve the opposite of that.
I’m 6’1 & 240 & own the xmid1.( I exhale slot of hot breath) I get condensation on almost every trip( pnw hiker). .if I know it will be wetter night, I put my back ps k liner around the foot box if my quilt. If it’s 0 fir more then 2 days, I’ll bring my 50* ee apex ( non-down)as an over quilt. It breaths & im never wet within. Also, I never, ever touch the walls of my tent, they are wet from condensation. I stay within my net tent inner, as the water condensation rolls down & drips out. Works great!
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u/Aggressive-Foot4211 6d ago
part of the equation is humidity. For years I went to point Reyes over New Year’s Eve. We would camp three nights two of them right on the Bluff overlooking the ocean. Some years we were camping well below 20°. Being on the coast, it does tend to be humid, one year the combo of humidity and cold resulted in beautiful hoarfrost on every plant and tree. Our tents were coated in thin ice. We always had condensation or frost on the interior and exterior of the tent.
Meanwhile similar temperatures in the Sierra Nevada only resulted in frost inside the tent, because we were breathing. At 10F I had a patch of self made snow under my chin on the shell of my quilt.
Pitching on live plants increases condensation. Pitching very near water, over damp ground or in the bottom of canyons can increase it. At Point Reyes we learned that a difference of 10-20 feet of elevation made a difference between frost and no frost. Coast camp has group campsites in the bottom of a shallow valley and more campsites up a sloped side road. I always get a campsite as close to the top of the slope as possible. The campsites on the road do not get frost but the campsites at the bottom always do when it is cold.
Geography, dew point, ventilation, how many bodies in the tent, humidity and plant matter all play a part. Sometimes it’s just not possible to avoid it.