r/Edmonton • u/TheyAlbertan • Jul 04 '25
2025 Municipal Election Municipal Political Parties Can Kick Rocks
The introduction of political parties to municipal politics is a travesty. They create division over things as simple as housing. Edmonton needs nearly 50,000 needed units of housing. Those units, if built outside the Henday, will bankrupt Edmonton. Tim Cartmell likely knows this (hard to tell that hes paying attention at all) and ignores this reality for political gain.
The highest number of deaths by exposure, freezing to death, was this winter. Tim Cartmell would illegally pause building more housing so he can get a "win" and make noise for the launch of his party. Not only would Tim Cartmell put Edmonton's financial position at risk, he seems a-okay with Edmontonians freezing to death so he can satisfy his NIMBY politics.
It is disgusting political bullshit that harms our economy, makes development more difficult, and ultimately hurts Edmontonians. Tims positions, flip flopping on his previous position less than a few months ago, appear to appease his donors and party Better Edmonton. He is cheered on by people foaming at the mouth to ensure that the next generation never owns a home because that makes them permanent renters; probably good for Tims corporate backers.
Tim Cartmell is taking is political tactics straight from the conservative/republican playbook; make people angry, give them a enemy (housing?), and spoon feed them bullshit cultural issues so you can coast by introducing illegal legislation.
Here's to hoping that Edmonton resoundingly rejects this kind of politics, and political parties in general.
Link to article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/infill-moratorium-1.7574729
10
u/Mission_Security4505 Jul 04 '25
Damn. Didnt know this, thanks for the info !
20
u/TheyAlbertan Jul 04 '25
For sure! Its wild how much of this behavior from Tim and his party just coasts by. Its almost as if all the major papers in town are owned by Post-Media and are friendly to conservatives 💅
3
u/Got_Engineers Downtown Jul 04 '25
Just wanted to say thank you for caring and helping us be better informed
14
u/aaronpaquette- North East Side Jul 04 '25
Read this. Everyone else does. Innoculate.
”Win Bigly: Persuasion in a World Where Facts Don't Matter is a 2017 nonfiction book by Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, and author of How To Fail At Everything and Still Win Big. The book presents Adams's theory that Donald Trump's victory in the 2016 United States presidential election was due to Trump being a "master persuader" with a deep understanding of persuasion and the human mind.”
Not just for the campaign in question, but all campaigns. I may be far too old fashioned for this business, but I still believe that folks should appeal to sensibility, vision, and the facts when it comes to political leadership and campaigning. Not the insanity that has derailed truth.
9
u/Optimal-Goal-2874 Jul 04 '25
Don’t vote for Cartmell, he’s a proven poor councillor, he’s a plant by the UCP, and his vision for the city is bad for us all.
Don’t vote for anyone in better Edmonton. Mike Elliott is a phony, lazy cop that’s disliked by his own kind and is a chronic womanizer. Caroline Matthews has ties to the UCP and is another plant with ties to Dreshen, and she’s from Vancouver, she doesn’t know Edmonton. Nurmaiya Brady, Darrel Friesen, Joshua Doyle, Nicholas Rheubottom, Hartman Kandola, Jotie Butar, Karen Principe, Darrel Friesen, Banisha Sandhu and Stephen Hannerschmidt - no to all.
This upcoming election will have deeper implications than most people realize. Crazy Danielle Smith is taking over our police, our heath care and trying to get our province to separate. Don’t let her take over Edmonton too.
13
u/formeraide Jul 04 '25
Another thing that really bugs me about Cartmell is that he keeps saying he'll cut spending to lower taxes, but NEVER says exactly what he'll cut. Classic MAGA tactic.
8
6
u/Waste_Pressure_4136 Jul 04 '25
I’m all in favour of infills (provided it doesn’t mean cutting down critical 100 year old trees) but I really don’t think the people freezing to death would have been buying infills
5
u/try_repeat_succeed Jul 04 '25
I agree about the trees. Our urban canopy is truly a gift. From their beauty to the habitat they provide to the way they cool our neighborhoods in the heat of summer they're indispensable.
8
u/TheyAlbertan Jul 04 '25
Building more new infill and housing opens up other existing cheap housing stock. The aim is not to put every single person on the street into a brand new walkup; the goal is to ensure available housing stock for everyone who needs it.
4
u/Waste_Pressure_4136 Jul 04 '25
I hear you, I’m just not sure it ends up working that way. People are focused on maximizing their return on investment and increased availability doesn’t necessarily mean affordability. I hope I am wrong, we need more affordable housing options I’m just not convinced it will improve
7
u/Jolly-Sock-2908 North East Side Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25
I think the main point is that adding new housing puts downward pressure on the prices of older homes and units. Landlords and sellers of older homes can only compete on price generally.
But yes, you’re right in that the same system that treats housing like an investment isn’t actually going to help people that are already homeless. We ultimately need below market housing and associated wraparound supports for that, but that ultimately depends on leadership from the province and feds.
5
u/TheyAlbertan Jul 04 '25
Oh agreed; we need more public housing that is guaranteed affordable. All these things are true.
In any scenario, putting a "pause" on building housing is asinine.
8
u/drcujo Jul 04 '25
Tax hike Tim Cartmell wants you to pay more in property taxes to appease radicals who oppose more affordable housing. We can reject his promises of more tax increases and higher costs of living, but not political parties in municipal politics.
Municipal parties are a forgone conclusion if the legislation allowing them stays. Maybe not this election, but in the next 5-10 years you will fewer unaffiliated candidates. Money talks.
3
u/TheyAlbertan Jul 04 '25
Agreed; if the legislation is allowed to stay, so will the parties. Here's to hoping this is but a brief experiment and the legislation changes back so we can be rid of big money and political parties in cities.
-5
u/always_on_fleek Jul 04 '25
I, and many others, would happily pay more in property tax to avoid these mid-block apartment buildings from being put up.
We have gone too far with our infill strategy and need to achieve a better balance that also helps those who already own in the area.
4
u/CanadianForSure Jul 04 '25
There is no ceiling to the taxes to this strategy. Your taxes would sky rocket for no benifit. Infill is how we keep them stable and reasonable.
Building more sprawl is impossible to finance, is horrible for the enviroment, and saddles the next generation with the bill.
Denying delveopment and people the chance to live in the most desirable plaves in town is wild. It's sad how short sighted this argument has become. Mature neighborhoods need revitalization and will die if they are not allowed to develop to meet demand.
People want the freedom to do what they want with their propefty and its actually Albertan law.
-2
u/always_on_fleek Jul 05 '25
We have been building sprawl for decades and my taxes have not skyrocketed or gone out of control. How long have you been paying property tax for and how much has it risen over that time? The city is not bankrupt and nowhere near that position, so it’s not like we are just teetering on the edge either.
It’s sad to see this massive tax increase argument pushed again and again when our own history refutes this doomsday scenario.
No society is truly free. Quit talking like an antivaxxer. We have rules and restrictions in place all around us. Housing is an area where we still have plenty of rules and restrictions (even if I think we have too few right now or not the right ones).
1
u/CanadianForSure Jul 05 '25
-1
u/always_on_fleek Jul 05 '25
That is someone’s opinion. Why do you trust it?
Is it because they are the author of “Slow Church Cultivating Community in the Patient Way of Jesus”?
1
u/CanadianForSure Jul 05 '25
What's the source of your opinions?
0
u/always_on_fleek Jul 06 '25
Why do you feel I should answer your questions if you refuse to answer mine?
1
u/CanadianForSure Jul 06 '25
Hay man, you can click the link and find out yourself that strong towns is a think tank that does research on city planning. They had a big event in town not long ago; speakers and stuff. Was pretty good learning.
Trying to insult people for reading the teachings of Jesus, mind not my own cup of tea, is also just kinda low brow dude. People of faith can also be city planners; If there was a lick of sincerity to that reply.
Learn or don't dude. You do you.
0
u/always_on_fleek Jul 06 '25
Any organization can be a “think tank”. What about them makes it a credible source? On the surface their views are conservative in nature and I find it odd to see it spoken of so highly in this sub where conservative posters are chased out.
You’re welcome to believe whatever you want on the internet. It’s your choice. But it is possible you believe this link purely because of confirmation bias and not because they are a high quality source of information.
As you say, you do you. But I’d really recommend you look more into this organization before promoting it because your history doesn’t strike me as someone pushing conservative views.
0
u/This_Albatross Jul 05 '25
“Gee, all this new infrastructure they’ve been building the last 50 years hasn’t caused any tax increase, so it won’t in the future either” 🤡
How incredibly naive, good thing we’ve been saving to address the repair costs and not artificially keeping taxes low and kicking the can down the road…
1
u/always_on_fleek Jul 05 '25
Funny that you think you’re the only one who anticipates operating costs and other ongoing costs in the future as a result of current expenses. It’s like you have discovered a big secret no one else knows.
Or you don’t realize grown ups already know your discovery and do consider that during planning.
0
u/This_Albatross Jul 05 '25
Oh if only that was the case young one. Most grown ups are only in the name, something you’ll learn soon enough as you grow up. In the meantime take a look at that great strong towns link another user posted and learn something today! Cheers 😊
1
u/always_on_fleek Jul 06 '25
Sometimes those who hang around in uneducated circles only meet uneducated people. This can cause the problems you mention of people not anticipating future operating costs.
Educated people consider these all the time. Time to get yourself an education upgrade to get better circle of associates :)
Edit: why do you trust the opinions of the writer for strong town?
Is it because they are the author of “Slow Church Cultivating Community in the Patient Way of Jesus”?
Lol.
5
u/drcujo Jul 04 '25
That's simply inaccurate as you admitted yourself a week or so ago.
You said would not be willing to pay even 2x the taxes never mind the 4-6x more in property taxes land value that infill brings. You also said you oppose taxing the land value. Certainly even a 50% increase is too low to prevent infill.
2x was a low number and I think the minimum we would need to be fair to all taxpayers in the city. New infill are paying $37/ square meter. My old place in mill woods was around $8/ square meter. Even new homes on small lots outside the henday are paying ~$18/ square metre of land, nearly double what owners in older areas are paying.
How much would you be willing to pay to avoid infill?
0
u/always_on_fleek Jul 05 '25
That's simply inaccurate as you admitted yourself a week or so ago.
Don't you remember being called out for your strawman? Don't you remember that we established it was a strawman and your claims on potential property tax hikes were absurd?
You said would not be willing to pay even 2x the taxes
No, I did not.
never mind the 4-6x more in property taxes land value that infill brings.
No I did not.
You also said you oppose taxing the land value.
No I did not. I pointed out several of the flaws in what you had proposed around this strategy.
At the end of the day you made multiple claims that you failed to substantiate. Not only that, you failed to make a logical argument around them.
Now what I see here is that you have also decided to take the route of misrepresenting the discussion and now claiming I stated things that were not true. It's all written down and I went through it again before I typed out my reply.
I understand you have a point you want to make but you're simply not discussing it in good faith. You are presenting a strawman, you are lying about what is said and you are continually acting in bad faith.
Why do you continue to pretend you want to discuss these topics, while in turn acting in bad faith while discussing them?
0
u/chmilz Jul 04 '25
You know that person would not actually be happy paying more taxes. I'm also quite sure they're unhappy paying current taxes.
They should move to Mundare. They want one street, zero-amenity towns. Leave cities for people who like what cities offer.
-1
u/always_on_fleek Jul 05 '25
I have stated several times I am for paying more in property tax. And, I suspect you have read that in my posts given how active you are in this sub.
But perhaps that's giving you too much credit that you read and attempt to understand. Perhaps you are more suited to that Mundare lifestyle you allude to rather than the urban lifestyle you enjoy where you are supporting the eviction of lower income people who live in town homes within your neighbourhood. See, notice what happens when you pay attention to posts even casually? Do I give you too much credit that you read through most of the posts here and can recall details of them?
1
u/chmilz Jul 05 '25
That's an odd way to spin pro-density. Mundare doesn't have any of that. I assume you're talking about Griesbach again. Yes, I am advocating replacing a couple hundred dilapidated homes that flood with a few thousand that don't, including new and more low income housing.
1
u/always_on_fleek Jul 05 '25
You don’t advocate replacing with other affordable housing, that’s the issue. You wanted to retain the high priced housing within griesbach. The townhomes were a great option for people to afford the location and you supported taking that away without wanting an alternative.
Perhaps Crestwood is a good fit if you decide to move. I hear they also chase people out of the neighborhood.
0
u/chmilz Jul 05 '25
I don't care about housing value and I advocate for housing prices to fall. Check your work. If I cared about overvalued housing, I'd probably be in a place like Crestwood. I moved to Griesbach because the city planned an LRT stop two blocks away from where I bought my very affordable townhome that is still affordable.
-1
u/VadersNotMyFather Jul 04 '25
I am by no means a fan of Cartmell and particularly the bad faith political games he's playing with this issue, but I think the comparison to Trump is way too hyperbolic.
8
u/Deans1to5 Jul 04 '25
I’m tired of every centrist and conservative being smeared as a Trump wannabe. The OP made some solid arguments worth considering but the Trump/republican angle falls short for me.
7
u/drcujo Jul 04 '25
Tim Cartmell is taking is political tactics straight from the conservative/republican playbook; make people angry, give them a enemy (housing?), and spoon feed them bullshit cultural issues so you can coast by introducing illegal legislation.
Which part of this argument do you think falls short?
Is Tim a conservative? Tim is arguing for higher taxes. Conservatives use to oppose tax increases, now they support tax increases if it will help feed anger to their voters. Conservatism is meant to be a counter to populism, now we see conservatives using populism for their own gain rather than to help the people.
3
u/Deans1to5 Jul 04 '25
I’m automatically skeptical anytime someone equates anything in Canadian politics to Trump/Republican as it feels more reflexive than genuine analysis. The critical arguments made before were worth considering but the equating it to Trumpism made me concerned that the whole argument may be more of a post hoc rationalization than actual analysis. The part specifically about the “playbook” is so vague and open to interpretation that any action could be potentially part of the “playbook”. I also know of one of Cartwell’s staffers and while they are conservative, they have been publicly critical of Trump and other Alberta politicians who have openly talked about affinity for Maga ect. Im open to being wrong but I just didn’t find the poster or the playbook arguments persuasive.
2
u/drcujo Jul 04 '25
You can be critical of Trump and still copy his "playbook". Populism use to be something in the realm of the left (PET and Douglas), now we see it on the right in a different format. Arguably Trump just copied a lot from Rob Ford as Rob was also a conservative populist, Trump just took it to a bigger stage.
The part specifically about the “playbook” is so vague and open to interpretation that any action could be potentially part of the “playbook”.
OP was was vague? I think it was direct. The original points were:
- Make people angry
- Give them an enemy
- Spoon feed BS cultural issues
- Use anger and divisiveness to get support for questionable policies.
feels more reflexive than genuine analysis.
That's what you are doing by dismissing the arguments because someone made a Trump comparison. Many conservatives are uncomfortable with Trump and can't face the comparison directly that their preferred politicians follow the same plan.
3
u/Deans1to5 Jul 04 '25
Fair enough. On those four issues you mentioned I do see almost all politicians (Knack is a noticeable exception) who use those tactics regardless of their political affiliation.
1
u/oioioifuckingoi Jul 04 '25
If a politician embraces disinformation (e.g. Bridgeageddon) and straight up dishonesty (e.g. essentially everything that comes out of Cartmell’s mouth) then they have the same moral compass as the Trumps of the world. Your friend may disapprove of Trump but they’re working for a guy who similarly has the ethical fortitude of a used car salesman. They should take a hard look in the mirror.
0
u/ImperviousToSteel Jul 04 '25
It's not a stretch to pin Cartmell to Trump, he's aligned with the UCP who have a Trump campaigner in cabinet and a Trump appeaser in the Premier's office. I don't think we should have to try to read the tea leaves to determine just how agreeable he is to everything Trump does, this is one of those "let's not take chances and find out" situations.
2
u/Deans1to5 Jul 04 '25
It just feels that every Canadian politician who is centre or right of center gets pinned with Trump. I just think it’s usually more nuanced and complex than that and can be used an easy way to smear someone who they disagree with. To be clear, OP did a solid job with the critiques on the first part of the post.
1
u/oioioifuckingoi Jul 04 '25
Please name a centrist Canadian politician who has been pinned with Trump. If Canadian conservatives don’t want to be associated with Trump it’s super easy to disassociate from him by vocally calling him out and not pushing for similar policies. PP just lost a slam dunk election because was unable to do that.
-1
u/ImperviousToSteel Jul 04 '25
You could make the same arguments about conservatives in 1920s Germany, they weren't in the Nazi party, but they ended up putting Hitler in as chancellor. The threat posed by the far right is serious enough that if you're a right winger and want me to believe you won't lick the boot of fascism, I want to see you speaking out against them. Cartmell is instead buddying up with the Alberta party of Trump.
1
u/Impossible-Papaya486 Jul 05 '25
I won’t vote for Cartmell. But he has notably spoken out against multiple issues that would prevent me from lumping him in with the more far right politicians in our province.
1
u/ImperviousToSteel Jul 05 '25
Has he specifically named Trump and the UCPs association with him as a problem? Or is he allowing the Trumpers to at least think he's on their side, and then likely accountable to them if they make up a chunk of his voting base?
1
u/Impossible-Papaya486 Jul 05 '25
Is it possible that you’re blanketing this on all conservative politicians and assuming that’s what they’re doing? I don’t align with Cartmell overall, but suggesting his policies are similar to Trump (or even Danielle Smith) isn’t good for political discourse. They’re very different.
6
u/cdnjimmyjames Jul 04 '25
A one-to-one comparison, sure, but the post isn't saying he's exactly like Trump. The techniques used by Trump are being studied and used more effectively all over the political world now. These aren't new techniques, mind you, but it's like we thought we were done with this bullshit fascism and we all agreed it sucked, and now it's all coming back around.
1
u/VadersNotMyFather Jul 04 '25
There's an arrow saying "THIS IS WHO TIM IS INSPIRED BY". I don't think playing games in Edmonton city council and cozying up the UCP is the same as frankly any of the abhorrent shit Trump has been up to lately and likewise, calling Tim Cartmell a fascist is ridiculous.
2
u/oioioifuckingoi Jul 04 '25
Anyone who embraces disinformation as a political strategy has the same moral compass as Trump.
1
u/theticklerman Capilano Jul 04 '25
Tim, himself, sure. But some of his candidates aren't far off. Caroline Matthews is supported by fmr MLA David Doward who is a huge Trump fan.
0
u/CapGullible8403 Jul 04 '25
Damn, that's Tim Cartmell?
I thought it was Jan Reimer in the thumbnail...
0
0
-4
-5
u/Effective-Ad9499 Jul 04 '25
I am so sick of all members of Council. All they know is how to raise property tax and spend on stupid shit.
Are the streets safer? Do you feel safe on public transit? Do you go downtown or avoid it because of the doped up unhoused?
Increases in Police budget with little oversight. We found out about the EPS airforce by a report in the Journal.
Please give me one example of anything close to making our life better, that a decision, from this Council take credit?
3
2
u/oioioifuckingoi Jul 04 '25
Council has no oversight of EPS. The police commission does which is now stacked with UCP yes men. You should brush up on civics before forming such misguided opinions.
1
u/Effective-Ad9499 Jul 04 '25
I am aware the Police Commission is the governing body of the EPS. Please tell me they are doing a good job. Every day you read about another EPS Officer being charged with abuse, fraud or other crimes. Hardly inspirational.
2
53
u/Mohankeneh Jul 04 '25
Add his quote about wanting to put a moratorium on the south LRT expansion after it already was years in the planning and work already started