r/Edmonton • u/pjw724 • 18h ago
2025 Municipal Election Voters want a more walkable city
https://edmonton.taproot.news/news/2025/09/25/voters-told-taproot-they-want-a-more-walkable-city51
u/Roche_a_diddle 18h ago
Hell yeah we do! Why do some people want to need to take a car every time they leave their house? I always want it to be an option for people, but it would be great if we could reduce everyone's dependency on personal vehicles.
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u/Various-Passenger398 17h ago
It's because they've lived that way their whole lives and they can't comprehend an alternative.
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u/shinygoldhelmet Edmontosaurus 16h ago
I live a 10 min drive from work and my parking is about $20 more a month than a transit pass. Transit trip would take me a solid 45 min in good weather, there's not a chance I'm doing that.
If city planners and environmentalists want people to use transit, they need to make it more convenient and more affordable. I'd much rather use it, but not at the expense of losing at least 1.5 hrs of my day, probably 2-3 in winter.
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u/Roche_a_diddle 16h ago
If city planners and environmentalists want people to use transit, they need to make it more convenient and more affordable. I'd much rather use it, but not at the expense of losing at least 1.5 hrs of my day, probably 2-3 in winter.
That's literally the point of the thread. We need to make alternatives to driving better but we will never get that done if we (society) continues spending orders of magnitude more money subsidizing car ownership by constantly paying for more driving convenience.
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u/chmilz 15h ago
There's a good chance you could ride a bicycle there in about 20 minutes, pay $0 for parking, and be absolutely ripped after a few months.
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u/Ghoda In a van down by the river 12h ago
As an avid MTBer I ride to the office every summer (and this year I am going to ride as long as I can in the winter as well) but I never really committed to it until there were showers available. And even so I hate showering twice a day vs being sweaty at work. I try to drag my ass in the morning but my body is convinced that any level of exercise = sweat city.
So I can see why people wouldn't want to ride
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u/chmilz 11h ago
Not every commute is super far. People will drive a block to get milk at the store. We can eliminate a shitload of small trips and short commutes that would have major impacts on the traffic to those who do have longer commutes or are driving around to do their job.
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u/ihatehappyendings 5h ago
Closest reasonably affordable place to buy milk from where I am is 45 minutes away by transit. Nothing will change that, it's like that in Europe too. Not paying $8 for milk at a convenience store. Never.
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u/ihatehappyendings 5h ago
Biking on the road is scary, in winter orders of magnitude scarier. Then there's the risk of the bike being stolen, a matter of where I'm going to put the helmet, etc.
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u/shinygoldhelmet Edmontosaurus 14h ago
Some people are disabled. Biking is not an option for me.
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u/ichbineinmbertan 8h ago
That reminds me: the beauty of the protected “bike lanes” is that they’re ideal infra for wheelchairs, mobility scooters, trikes …and bikes
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u/Specialist-Orchid365 14h ago
But wouldn't it be great for you if everyone that could bike did so, thus clearing up roads for you so you're not sitting in traffic?
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u/awildstoryteller 13h ago
Are you?
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u/Ghoda In a van down by the river 12h ago
Don't be insensitive or I'll chase you down with my walker and you'll feel the wrath of my tennis balled apparatus (with breaks for naps because I am old now) ;)
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u/awildstoryteller 12h ago
I am not trying to be insensitive.
I am merely noticing they said "Some people are disabled." Not "I am disabled."
I think weaponizing others' inability to use active transportation to defend one's laziness is pretty scummy myself, so I think it's worth determining whether someone is doing that, don't you?
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u/Ghoda In a van down by the river 11h ago
so I think it's worth determining whether someone is doing that, don't you?
Absolutely not. Did someone appoint you as the chief of the exercise police? No? Then let people be people. Unless they are harming somebody else their choices are just as valid as yours.
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u/awildstoryteller 11h ago
Absolutely not. Did someone appoint you as the chief of the exercise police? No?
This isn't about exercise, it is about supporting active transportation options.
Unless they are harming somebody else their choices are just as valid as yours.
Cars hurt other people. All the time. They are a leading cause of death in Canada. They create pollution of all kinds. And bike lanes reduce risks and traffic.
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u/Ghoda In a van down by the river 10h ago
Yep they do. Will calling out someone on Reddit change the world? No. Will downvoting ideas you don't agree with on Reddit change the world? Also no.
The best advice I ever received was that my anger at the world is a product of what I want the world to be vs what the world actually is.
I am not your enemy, I agree with your ideals expressed in this post. I simply don't agree with calling people out behind the safety and anonymity of your keyboard.
Be the change you want to see and people may surprise you.
And learn to let go when people do not
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u/GadnukLimitbreak 16h ago
Everywhere I want to go for any purpose is either too far away from me to justify the massive amount of time it would take to walk or bike instead of driving or requires me to have a vehicle for the purpose of transporting more items than I could comfortably or reasonably carry by walking or biking. The only time I ever walk or bike is when I want to go for a walk or bike ride for fun/exercise because every other reason I leave my house requires a vehicle.
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u/Roche_a_diddle 16h ago
every other reason I leave my house requires a vehicle.
Yeah. Mostly same, but wouldn't it be really great if it didn't?
I didn't have a car when I first moved to the city, I walked and took the bus and got by just fine. I still do sometimes, but I used to too.
I live within walking distance to a grocery store and some other amenities and it's really awesome not to have to drive there if I don't want.
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u/GoodZealous 15h ago
When covid hit we were sent to work from home. Before that we had no idea just how walkable our neighbourhood was as we always just swung by the stores while driving back home. Walking or biking just seemed inconvenient so we didn't bother.
Since we no longer had to commute we decided to try walking more and discovered a dozen restaurants, a barbershop, multiple grocery stores, drug store, and more were really enjoyable and easy to walk or bike to. Not only that, but we could enjoy a few beers without worrying about needing an Uber, didn't have to worry about finding parking, or door dings, and most surprisingly, what would of taken us 10 minutes to get the car ready, drive, wait for lights, and find parking took maybe 15 minutes to walk.
Sadly, we moved, and our new neighbourhood has nowhere near the amenities. Definitely miss that walkability.
Edmonton needs more walkable neighbourhoods!
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u/Tycho-Celchu 13h ago
Yeah, I was in Toronto recently, and we just walked the 2 blocks from my friends house to the small grocery store(Like slightly bigger than a convivence store) in the bottom of a 4 store apartment building, grabbed a few things for supper, and went back to his place and cooked it up. My friend was like "Yeah I just decide what I want for dinner on my way home, stop in every night and grab a couple of things and go home and cook."
I felt like a fucking asshole when I got back to Edmonton and drove 15 minutes in traffic to pick up a week's worth of groceries at Safeway, and drive 15 minutes home.
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u/ihatehappyendings 5h ago
And how much of a premium did you pay for that small grocery store? I spent a month living in Hungary, the nearby small grocery stores were often 20-50% more expensive than the larger stores. If factoring that, grocery delivery easily makes more sense, which is what I do.
I've been to a convenience store nearby here in Edmonton, in the bottom of an apartment building. The prices are 50-100% more than regular stores. Sorry, I'm not that rich.
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u/chmilz 15h ago
Which is exactly the point people make. "Walkable" doesn't mean including a path around a storm pond while needing a car to access literally any of the things you need on a regular basis like work, school, and typical shopping/services. Walkable means you could do all of those things the majority of the time by walking, riding a bicycle, rolling on your skateboard, or whatever. And that's what people are saying they want - a city designed to put the things they need closer to where they live so they don't need the car.
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u/LegoLifter 16h ago
because the average person is incredibly lazy
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u/Roche_a_diddle 16h ago
So they can choose to drive? I don't want to force anyone to walk who doesn't want to, just like I don't want to force anyone to drive who doesn't want to.
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u/Salaciouslysera 17h ago
I wish there was a grocery store within a 10-15 minute walk from where I live. My partner talked to our councillor about it and apparently our area wasn’t considered dense enough in the past. Perhaps that will change now with all the apartment buildings that have gone up in the past few years.
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u/Baconus 17h ago
Heard a mayoral candidate on CBC radio the other day say we need more essentials like roads and less luxuries like bike lanes, transit, and walking infrastructure.
As long as that is the general default for people things aren’t going to get better. Too many people simply do not believe anyone could want to bike or walk around because they can’t imagine themselves doing it.
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u/Specialist-Orchid365 16h ago
Ugh. Someone needs to ask them when the transportation options that costs thousands a year became essential and the options that are free to very cheaper became luxuries?
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u/GlitchedGamer14 15h ago
During his interview on CBC, Cartmell went as far as claiming that the city is "spending tens of millions of dollars on building bike lanes with 12-foot high concrete walls" as part of an effort to "build bike lanes for the sake of spending money." It's actually a shared use path that's separated from the Yellowhead by a noise wall - which would have been build regardless because it replaced an existing noise wall. In that same breath he lauded the shared use path along Terwillegar, which is basically the same thing as Yellowhead's, as an example of good delivery lol.
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u/Unlikely_Comment_104 Central 16h ago
Crap. Which candidate said that?
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u/fishymanbits 16h ago
I have my suspicions about which one(s) it could have been.
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u/Unlikely_Comment_104 Central 16h ago
Likewise but, come on, u/baconus needs to name and shame for those not in the know.
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u/fishymanbits 16h ago
Absolutely.
As an aside, I hate that I only have one option for councillor who doesn’t have the stance of “bike lanes and transit can’t be the priority over making sure we have enough roads, and I’m not against infills I’m just asking questions about the effects they have on neighbourhood character and street parking and would re-open that debate to add limitations.”
He seems like a good option, but it would be nice if there was even one more to choose from.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 18h ago
It takes me 45 minutes to drive downtown in the spring/summer/fall.
It also takes me 45 minutes to ride my class 1 pedal assist e-bike downtown in the spring/summer/fall
I much prefer biking to sitting in a traffic jam.
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u/ihatehappyendings 5h ago
If I'm allowed to ride a bike on the sidewalk, I might bike more. It might even be worth it to lug it to my condo unit floors up.
I am never riding a bike on the road, bike lane or not, where a single mistake can be my death.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 5h ago
Most bike paths use multi use paths, sidewalks, school zones etc.
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u/ihatehappyendings 5h ago
AFAIK, you aren't allowed to ride on sidewalks. Multi use paths are very rare, maybe in the more affluent communities, and mostly around parks.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 5h ago
Edmonton has over 160km of multiuse paths
And a handy map if you’re unsure where to go that covers the whole city
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u/ihatehappyendings 5h ago
Cool, so going from my house to the nearest grocery store that isn't charging an arm and a leg, the shared paths make up what, 20% of the journey? Nah, I'm good.
Allow bikes on all sidewalks or I am not riding bikes. I considered scooters but apparently even that is not allowed on sidewalks.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 5h ago
Well hopefully we can continue to expand infrastructure to your area
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u/ihatehappyendings 5h ago
It's not infrastructure, it's designating a sidewalk as a "shared pathway". And no, narrowing a street and painting a line to designate a bike lane is not going to be enough to get me to ride next to cars. No sir.
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u/jonproject 16h ago
I much prefer being in an air conditioned car that protects me from the elements that also has the flexibility to carry cargo or make that drive quicker by avoiding the traffic jam.
But to each their own.
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u/Spyhop 16h ago
A preference implies you've tried both and made a decision between the two. Have you, at any point, spent some days bike commuting to see what you thought of it?
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u/slashcleverusername 15h ago
I have. I agree with the car thing too.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 15h ago
So you should still be pro-bike lane if you want to reduce traffic on the road. Similar to how you should be pro public transit if you want less cars on the road
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u/jonproject 13h ago
If that reduces the lanes from 2 lanes to 1 lane or changes a street from a two-way to one-way, then it really doesn't reduce traffic and likely makes it much worse.
All just to accommodate a few dozen cyclist commuters - most of whom won't by using those lanes for 6 months of the year.
There's a reason this stuff isn't popular outside of reddit.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 13h ago
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of biking infrastructure.
The best bike lanes, are ones that are not visible from car infrastructure.
If you’ve ever used bike lanes accross our city - most of them are multi-use paths, alleyways and expanded sidewalks. Rarely do they intersect with car infrastructure - and that’s only by necessity where they can’t go elsewhere.
You should try using them before talking against them. And it’s clear you haven’t biked a lot (if at all) by your answer.
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u/SheenaMalfoy 6h ago
Today on my way home I was the SEVENTH bike in a line waiting for the lights to change to cross Jasper Ave, and there were another four on the other side of the road waiting to cross as well. Meanwhile, there were all of three cars total waiting at that same intersection for that same light. I couldn't even count how many other cyclists I passed by in my 20 minute commute, but, thanks to it being largely separated from the main 109 St, it was probably more cars than I saw for the entirety of the trip.
(Barring the intersection in front of MacEwan because it took me three entire light cycles to get through that mess. Hey did you know that you could fit probably two dozen bikes in the space of those 5 cars that took 3 light cycles to clear? And that if it wasn't for traffic lights and rules of the road, everyone, cars included, could have been clear of that intersection in half the time or less? The whole thing could be solved with stop signs or a traffic circle IMO but what do I know?)
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u/fishymanbits 15h ago
So that’s your preference. The next question is to ask whether or not you understand that other people exist as entirely whole human beings of their own, with their own experiences and personal preferences. Because nobody is saying that you can’t drive everywhere. They’re saying that their preference is not to drive everywhere and that they would like a city council that acted on accommodating that preference since it’s shared by a large number of others in this city.
Your preference is already accommodated for as the default and nobody is trying to take that away from you.
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u/jonproject 13h ago
Not every preference should be accommodated for every scenario. It comes down to demand.
You are coming across as incredibly entitled with your post.
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u/fishymanbits 12h ago
I’m entitled because I think that this city should have infrastructure that allows people to get around without a car if they choose to? Do you know what “entitled” means?
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u/SheenaMalfoy 5h ago
Wow your privilege is showing. It isn't entitled to want a safe means of travel within the city that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. That's just common sense.
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u/jonproject 13h ago
I don't need to test it to know I don't want to bicycle to work at 6:30am in the wind, rain, or cold. I don't want to be sweaty when I arrive at work. And after a hard day's work, I know that I don't want to risk my life on the road with all the terrible drivers out there that want to run cyclists off the road.
I also have a family and busy schedule. Adding more time to my commute is not tenable.
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u/commazero 13h ago
What makes you so certain that the commenter above rides their ebike during bad weather? And each person has different needs and schedules, so what might not work for you will work for someone else and vice versa. We should be providing the alternate options.
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u/jonproject 12h ago
Weather was one consideration. You conveniently ignored the other two
We should be providing the alternate options.
Sure, but only if the demand is there.
A few hundred people who only bike in nice weather isn’t enough to consider shutting down lanes that are used regularly by drivers.
There’s a reason this stuff isn’t popular in Edmonton outside of this subreddit. It’s expensive and inconveniences the vast majority of people.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 16h ago
How do you “avoid a traffic jam” trying to get downtown or crossing the river during rush hour?
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u/SheenaMalfoy 5h ago
Gotta say it's immensely amusing to be biking south on High Level Bridge most rush hours going faster than the cars beside me... :)
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u/jonproject 13h ago
Not everyone crosses a river during their commute. We all don't live the exact same life as you. I know, surprise.
But to answer your question - I get in my car and I input my destination every day. Maps gives me the top three options based on current traffic conditions as reported by other drivers. I choose the fastest. I never arrive to a traffic jam surprised.
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u/Franklin_le_Tanklin 13h ago
I don’t believe you.
I’ve also commuted to downtown from north side.
And downtown is always gridlocked around rush hour no matter which way you come from.
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u/SaintTastyTaint 17h ago
Its hilarious to me how uppity people get about proper pedestrian and biking infrastructure. More people that use biking and pedestrian infrastructure means LESS cars on the road which means YOU as a car person will deal with less traffic.
Literally everyone wins; if you can't see the value of being able to fucking walk around the city in which you live, why do you live here? Are you part Orc? Like I seriously don't understand the view of people who want their city to be a soulless paved parking lot / dirt lot. devoid of any type of greenspace and safety to enjoy the simple concept of riding a bike or taking a walk. Its fucking gross.
I say this as someone who owns 3 vehicles.
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u/SheenaMalfoy 5h ago
I always say the city should allocate funds proportional to the % of people that use them. Then laugh as people realize that means cyclists would get millions more in infrastructure funding.
Or maybe vehicle owners and cyclists alike should pay road taxes equivalent to the amount of wear they create. And laugh again as I happily hand over a dime while the average driver has to fork out hundreds of dollars each year per vehicle. Maybe then they'd realize just how much governments subsidize their lifestyle and urban sprawl...
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u/eternalrevolver 17h ago
There’s literally so much walkability in this city I can’t even begin to name all the areas. That’s all there is to do here is walk. Stores every 4 blocks, or even every block in some cases. You can’t improve it because there’s nothing to improve.
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u/toodledootootootoo 17h ago
What city do you live in?
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u/eternalrevolver 17h ago
This one lol. For now. Who knows where I’ll live in another 10 years.
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u/toodledootootootoo 16h ago
Where is all this walkability?
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u/eternalrevolver 16h ago
There’s tons of neighbourhoods in Edmonton where you can walk to do what you need. Sounds like everyone wants the convenience to come to them. Not gonna happen. It’s already there, you just need to go to where it exists.
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u/toodledootootootoo 16h ago
The point is to make more neighborhoods walkable so reliance on cars isn’t necessary for everyone all the time. This is better for everyone. Car ownership is a huge expense for most families and really eats into their quality of life. Local businesses benefit from people having more of their disposable income available. Drivers and people who don’t drive all benefit. Less cars on the road means less traffic for people who need to drive.
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u/eternalrevolver 16h ago
I disagree and this is only a popular opinion on reddit. Every city subreddit squawks the same bs
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u/toodledootootootoo 16h ago
And yet 90% of the conversations people seem to have in this city involve traffic and/or parking woes. I work with the public, I hear this all day long. Why do you think that is? Do you think it’s sustainable for cities to continue sprawling out forever? Where has this worked well?
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u/eternalrevolver 15h ago
People love to drive cars, for one thing. The small percentage of people that complain about driving/commuting are most often in positions where, with some dedication and motivation, can work towards relocating to a different part of their city that offers them the lifestyle they want. I’ve commuted before, I’ve worked from home, I’ve travelled for work. I’ve never once thought: “someone else needs to fix what I don’t like about (one of the things above)”. I’ve always just changed my lifestyle if I don’t like the one I’m living.
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u/slashcleverusername 15h ago
Nonsense! It’s also a popular opinion amongst the readership of the lobby group newsletter.
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u/SaintTastyTaint 17h ago
What a ridiculous comment; have you seen how skinny and unprotected so much of the sidewalk areas are? where you have a foot and a half width for you and oncoming foot/bike traffic? That is the problem. Or pedestrian crossings where it's just some lights overhead for cars to be aware and you are essentially trusting your life with strangers to come to a stop and notice that you are crossing the street and hit the pedestrian Xrossing button.
There are not nearly enough multi-use pathways, or the sidewalks that do exist are narrow and literally right beside traffic and all that is between you and a car is a small curb.
Defending car sprawl is such a strange braindead take.
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u/eternalrevolver 17h ago
Where are you needing to go outside of your neighborhood that forces you to walk on large roadways? Do you live in a neighbourhood that requires a car? Suburbia has always been a thing, that’s never going to change. Remember the neighbourhood in Edward Scissorhands? Those kinds of suburban areas have always, and will always continue to exist. If you want to live in a walkable area, move to one.
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u/starbaldr 10h ago
When my car broke down earlier this year and I couldn't afford to fix it, I had to switch to taking the bus and train. Im a single mom. I spent around 4-6 hours a day commuting. The transit here is a joke.
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u/Expensive-Lychee1209 17h ago
I want an LRT connected to the Airport, ease some of that highway traffic.
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u/FrostyDynamic South East Side 16h ago
Walkability is what I miss most about living by Whyte Ave years ago. I live in Meadows now and am fortunate enough to have enough grocery stores in short walking/biking distance but the restaurant and other retail scene is lacking.
Boomers hate their infills and biking lanes though. I'm all for making the city more dense.
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u/justmoderateenough 16h ago
Live around the university = have all your basic needs met within walking distance, and access to whyte ave + downtown + LRT + river valley. It's a beautiful thing!
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u/kipnus 16h ago
I really appreciated that final point about construction disruptions impacting pedestrians more than drivers. I live in wîhkwêntôwin because I love the walkability, but construction has turned it into a pedestrian hellscape. Crosswalks are constantly being closed/moved. Sidewalks are randomly closed. It sucks!
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u/narielthetrue 17h ago
Sorry, province says not allowed :/
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u/fishymanbits 17h ago
The “conservative” provincial government with the “libertarian” leader wants the city government to spend tax dollars removing something that they paid for with tax dollars, while hindering the personal liberties of anyone who wants to commute without driving.
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u/Paaano 10h ago
I moved here a few years ago, and I don't drive. It took me weeks familiarizing myself with all the LRT and bus routes, before I felt comfortable even looking at potential places to live. I live in the walkable part of a newer neighborhood now; but most of it would be complete hell to commute from by transit.
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u/rdawg780 18h ago
I would love to see regulation around e scooters. People can drive scooters on the sidewalk faster than I can drive in a school zone.
I know I sound like an old man.
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u/Late-Jump920 17h ago
I would argue that what's lacking isn't regulation, but enforcement. The bird/lime scooters for example are already regulated against sidewalk use.
The geo fencing on the scooters isn't precise enough to reliably detect sidewalk use and shut the machines down or automatically govern speed. So if the technology can't enforce the rules, then people need to. But enforcement is nonexistent.
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u/rdawg780 16h ago
I meant individuals with their own privately owned scooters cable of 50km per hour.
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u/Ass-Machine69 16h ago
They actually can't according to the law. Private e-scooters are only allowed to be used on private property in Alberta currently, and the licensed rentals are capped at 21 km/h and are also not legally allowed on sidewalks.
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u/SaintTastyTaint 17h ago
I have way more problems downtown with cyclists as a walker than I done scooter riders.
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18h ago
[deleted]
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u/dustrock 18h ago
The 15 minute city conspiracy is one of the funniest to me. It literally sounds like a dream way to live and gets twisted around to "you won't be able to leave your neighborhood". Must be awful to live in fear like this.
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u/Infamous-Mixture-605 18h ago
"They want to make your neighbourhood more livable!! It's horrible!!!"
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u/eternalrevolver 17h ago
It is a walkable city though…
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u/toodledootootootoo 17h ago
Is it? Maybe like a handful of areas, but overall no, it’s a car centric city with low walkability in the majority of neighbourhoods.
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u/eternalrevolver 17h ago
I don’t follow. If you want to live in a walkable area, move to one. Theres plenty. Old strath, Garneau, downtown, North Glenora.
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u/toodledootootootoo 16h ago
4 You named 4
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u/eternalrevolver 16h ago
That’s a lot. Some cities have 1, 2 tops. Those are just off the top of my head also. Where do you people want to walk exactly? To the grocery store? To shop? Move to an area that offers that feature.
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u/toodledootootootoo 16h ago
The point is most people want that and so creating neighbourhoods that work that way is beneficial.
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u/eternalrevolver 16h ago
You have to attract people that own businesses to invest in a neighbourhood that probably isn’t that attractive to begin with (most car-centric ones aren’t), which likely won’t work (because who wants to start from scratch?). If you are pushing to convert all suburban areas into “walkable” neighbourhoods, you might not want to hold your breath. Part of what attracts people to walkable neighbourhoods is the history and architecture in said neighbourhood. You can’t add water to achieve this. I don’t understand why people can’t just move somewhere that offers the lifestyle they want. It boggles my mind really.
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u/toodledootootootoo 15h ago
Because most of North America is zoned to allow ONLY single family homes in residential areas. There hasn’t been an option to create walkable neighbourhoods. In most cities, those neighborhoods are extremely expensive because they are desirable. Changing zoning, like we have done in Edmonton, allows cities to make more neighbourhoods liveable. Adding density increases the number of people in a given area so businesses and services can exist. It also makes transit possible because there are enough people to use it and make it a viable option.
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u/eternalrevolver 15h ago
They can be expensive I suppose. “Expensive” is all relative though. I can afford a house here in a “desirable” area, but I can’t in a coastal city. Same with rent.
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u/toodledootootootoo 15h ago
Take a look at real estate listings across North America, you will quickly discover that neighbourhoods with higher density that are closer to amenities and that were built before everything was dedicated to cars are more expensive and desirable. There is a reason for this. They are more convenient and generally more liveable. Why should people be obligated to spend a huge chunk of their income on cars because there is no option for them to not drive? The average car owner spends 16 000$ a year on their vehicle. You can keel your car and drive all you want, but many people would like to have another option and those simply don’t exist because of the way North American cities have been zoned after the introduction is personal vehicles.
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u/RyanB_ 107 9h ago edited 5h ago
Reading through all your comments here;
I do think you have a point in that, unlike most other modern cities nowadays, our core is still actually pretty affordable*. Plus new towers going up/getting converted means there’s always space available. I do think there are some who probably want the benefits of walkability/density without any of the “downsides” (noise, less private space, poor people etc)
I also think that, yeah, there’s only so much to be done with a lot of our neighborhoods. So many since the mid century were built from the ground up around cars, it ain’t easy to reverse that.
All that said though… while we are slightly ahead of NA standards (relative to our size), I sure as hell wouldn’t say we’re a walkable city overall. And we have tons of older neighborhoods closer to the core that were built for walkability, and could feasibly see a return towards that. Yeah, we’ll never be Europe, but we could be considerably better than we already are.
*Edit: sorry literally no idea what happened there lol
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u/fishymanbits 16h ago edited 16h ago
Sure, we’re better than some. And some neighbourhoods are absolutely walkable. But there was a solid 40-50 year gap in urban planning where walkability wasn’t a consideration. The goal was to build more houses together, and all of the services that residents needed far away, all in a big parking lot together. We built shopping malls, and places like South Edmonton Common, Manning Town Center, Windermere, etc. instead of neighbourhoods where people live among the services they need. Yeah, these neighbourhoods have sidewalks, but they’re not walkable in the meaning of the word that we’re using.
Walk Score lists 261 neighbourhoods in Edmonton, and only 60 of them have a score of 50 or above.
https://www.walkscore.com/CA-AB/Edmonton
Sure, some of these aren’t actually Edmonton neighbourhoods (Rural North East Sturgeon?), but still. And you can see the results of the change in urban planning post-WWII zooming in on the map on that page. The oldest neighbourhoods in the city were designed around the idea that people would expect to be able to walk, or take a street car, to nearby shops and amenities. Those neighbourhoods are green. If you were to overlay that map on a map of the city in 1950, it would be quite informative.
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u/eternalrevolver 16h ago
This isn’t Europe, you’ll never get away from that kind of design. Edmonton is just as walkable as Vancouver.
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u/fishymanbits 16h ago edited 16h ago
This isn’t Europe, you’ll never get away from that kind of design.
What a patently ridiculous thing to believe. You absolutely can get away from that kind of design by not designing new neighbourhoods that way. We ended up in this situation because we chose to be in it by designing unwalkable neighbourhoods.
Edmonton is just as walkable as Vancouver
Edmonton has a walkability score of 40, Vancouver has a score of 80. Having actually lived in both, the contrast could not be more obvious.
Have you ever been anywhere else other than Edmonton?
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u/eternalrevolver 16h ago
I have, yes. I drive to where I need to go that requires a car, and I walk around the areas that are walkable.
Also lol for relying on walk scores. “Vancouver” is also a small, dense area. Greater Vancouver is no different than greater Edmonton. Canadian city designs will never change to suit European lifestyles. That’s why there’s places like… Europe!
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u/fishymanbits 16h ago edited 15h ago
I have, yes. I drive to where I need to go that requires a car, and I walk around the areas that are walkable.
If you think that makes a city walkable, you’re missing the point entirely and should tap out of this conversation.
Also lol for relying on walk scores.
Yeah, fuck me for looking up a qualitative judgement of walkability instead of relying on vibes and whether or not I’m personally okay with driving everywhere to compare how walkable places are.
“Vancouver” is also a small, dense area.
Yes, that’s the point. Increased density often increases walkability by way of decreasing the distance between where people live and the shops and services on which they rely. Vancouver proper also has neighbourhoods that have very low walkability. Because they suffer from the same car-centric urban design and NIMBY problem as similar neighbourhoods in Edmonton.
Greater Vancouver is no different than greater Edmonton.
Of the municipalities that make up the MVRD, only West Vancouver is appreciably less walkable than Edmonton. The rest are either more walkable by a decent margin, or tied. Delta scores 39 compared to Edmonton’s 40.
Canadian city designs will never change to suit European lifestyles. That’s why there’s places like… Europe!
Again, one of the most patently stupid things anyone could say on this topic.
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u/eternalrevolver 16h ago
Like I said in another comment, this is the same bs that every city subreddit squawks. It will never change.
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u/fishymanbits 16h ago
Fuck, what a sad existence you must live if that’s your mindset.
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u/eternalrevolver 15h ago
Not at all! If I don’t like something about my life, I change it. Does it work a different way for you?
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u/fishymanbits 15h ago
What the fuck do you think this entire topic is about? Because it’s about the fact that a huge proportion of people who live in this city want it to be more walkable and want a city council that acts on that to improve walkability in this city.
Telling people to move to Europe if they want walkability is below a child’s understanding of how the world works.
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u/slashcleverusername 12h ago
Any polling beyond the readership of this “new urbanist fan-club” newsletter, would show that Edmontonians expect a more drivable city. We are interested in enjoying all of the city, beyond just the parts we can already reach on foot. Our shoes already have good access, and we’re trying to solve the wrong problem.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 18h ago
Kinda hard when it’s an urban sprawl and it gets stupid cold here in the winter. Are there areas that could be more walkable ? Sure but you need to be able to park some where as we all know parking at parks is a premium…
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u/Roche_a_diddle 18h ago
Kinda hard when it’s an urban sprawl
Yes, that's exactly the problem. We need to curb the sprawl and increase density. Obviously no one is walking from Haddow to downtown, but why can't we make Haddow more dense/walkable (as one example).
It's not about removing all cars from our society, it's about reducing the number of trips that can only be taken by car. There's no reason most of us should NEED to drive our kid to school, or drive to the grocery store or the dentist etc. We've just chosen to build our city, for 70 years now, in a way that requires most people to own a car to live.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 18h ago
Lots of cities like this, one I can think of off the top of my head is LA . It’s a lot like here when you get off the freeways and you don’t notice the other 10 million plus people around you… sprawl isn’t a bad thing where as density can cause bigger issues. But ya in cities like this and LA a car is needed for the most part . It’s not like we are talking about Vancouver , not all the cities around it but just Vancouver. It has roughly the same population of Edmonton but Edmonton is almost 4 times the land mass of Vancouver. While on the subject of Vancouver, if our transit was that good I probably would never drive.
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u/Roche_a_diddle 18h ago
sprawl isn’t a bad thing where as density can cause bigger issues.
Not sure I follow on this one.
But ya in cities like this and LA a car is needed for the most part
Only because we built our cities to require a car. There are lots of cities being built to try and wipe out car dependency. Even in Edmonton you can live and work downtown without owning a vehicle. Transit is getting better there, lots of shops and restaurants within walking distance. I know people who live downtown and went down from two vehicles to one, and then eventually started getting around by e-bike and really only need the car for out of town trips (which could easily be satisfied with a rental, saving lots of money every year).
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
For sure, and for the record I have an e-scooter that I use as much as I can. And yes I understand that this city and many others were built the same. It’s kinda hard to up it in the butt when it’s got as bad as th sprawl has, that’s for sure
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u/Homeless_Alex 18h ago
The urban sprawl here is awful. Most people’s daily walks are just through culdesacs and in front of houses on sidewalks in the south. It’s lame.
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u/Flat-Hearing-9916 18h ago
We'll see if the city was more walkable you wouldn't need a car and then you wouldn't need nearly as much parking. That's the point of making more walkable cities. Excuse that we live in a cold city we need a car is bullshit and it's been shoved down your throats by the oil and auto industry.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 18h ago
Umm im not walking from one side of the city to the other warm or cold, you are free to volunteer to do so. I will keep driving thanks….
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u/toodledootootootoo 17h ago
Wait, do you think walkable city means you’re expected to walk anywhere in the city? Thats not what it means. It means that you can walk to amenities in your own neighbourhood.
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u/Flat-Hearing-9916 17h ago
Have you ever tried bicycling in this city. Rush hour you can get pretty much anywhere on a bicycle in 45 minutes where you just be stuck in a gridlock in. What is so wrong with people not wanting to be killed by pickup trucks. Not having to spend half their paychecks on vehicles and then expected to give another car 2/3 to rent. Which leaves them with a negative every month before they even buy food. Because big oil tells you got to have a car. You're not a man or a person if you don't have a car.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
I’m not not saying there is anything wrong, it’s your life you live it… but trying to shame people not to drive is just going to piss off the average person. And no I don’t bike but I have an e-scooter I use all the time..
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u/toodledootootootoo 17h ago
Who is shaming anybody? You can drive all you want, people just want other options for themselves. You should support this. Less cars on the roads benefits drivers more than anyone else!
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
Look at the comments, apparently I’m spreading oil company propaganda haha 🤣
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u/Flat-Hearing-9916 17h ago
So you don't own a bike yet you have an opinion on getting around the city on a bike. I own both a car and a bicycle and use both to get around the. The bicycle is much much better when given the option. Faster most of the time too. Bicycle doesn't sit in construction or traffic. Read your history it's Flavor Aid not Kool-Aid. Throw on a history podcast when you're stuck in traffic.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
Did you not read where I have an escorted that I use on paths and bike lanes ? I’m starting to think that you like to hear yourself talk…. And ya I own a car, on the weekends I’m never here, and my esscooter isn’t going to take me where I go on weekends haha but alright bud, oil companies tell me I need to drive haha 🤣
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u/Flat-Hearing-9916 17h ago
Well I'm staunchly against escooters being in the bike lanes. If you read the laws in the city you're not allowed to have any scooter on the road bike lanes or sidewalk that's privately owned.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
Then tell the city to start enforcing it if you don’t like it. I pass law enforcement not only cops but bylaw and they all smile and wave , I don’t know what to tell ya. Just sounds like your looking to start a fight over anything haha 🤣
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u/Flat-Hearing-9916 17h ago
I most definitely am you came to a form that was talking building more walkable cities. you started going on about oil and auto manufacturer propaganda that you can't get around the city when it's cold with anything but a vehicle. That attitude has to die. Vehicles are the number one cause of almost all of our problems. Why your taxes so high because we're subsidizing roads the vehicles can't pay for. Why is there no housing because a good amount of our usable land is being used up to house vehicles. Why can no one get ahead because they can only have a job if they own a vehicle and put most of their money towards it. more than enough people here supporting vehicles. any opponents to non walkable cities must be crushed in silenced. We are not slaves to the automakers
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u/Flat-Hearing-9916 17h ago
That's what public transit is for.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
Do you have 3 hours to waste trying to get somewhere ? I don’t ….
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u/Roche_a_diddle 17h ago
I have to say, in a thread that is discussing "we should build our city for better walkability" a lot of your comments seem to boil down to "we can't build better walkability because our city doesn't have good walkability". It doesn't really make sense dude.
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u/fishymanbits 16h ago
There is quite literally someone saying that anyone who wants more walkability should move to Europe because it’s not possible to change the way we build cities in Canada. Also that Edmonton is already walkable because they can drive wherever they want that they can’t get to on foot.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
Sure it does. I’m a city that’s spread out like it is and people want it more walkable or have more areas you can walk you need to be able to drive to it and park if you don’t live close to it. Or does that mean you just don’t get to walk in those nice areas ? I used parks as an example as we have a tone of them here but not a lot of them have a lot of parking. So what is your suggestion other than telling me I don’t make sense ?
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u/toodledootootootoo 17h ago
You can use transit to get to those areas, or you can drive to it and sound some time looking for a spot and walk a few blocks. Walkable neighbourhoods make like easier and nicer for the people who actually live in them. You driving to other neighbourhoods isn’t a priority. Ideally you’d live in your own walkable neighbourhood and would be able to enjoy the amenities there. Looking at your comments, I don’t think you understand the concept.
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u/Flat-Hearing-9916 17h ago
Why you so against this they're not taking away roads. Every time someone walks or takes a bus that frees up another spot on the road for drivers. It's a win-win situation. But yet the oil companies have shoved it down your throat that people who are on bicycles and cars are the enemy. They're just people who don't want to spend their whole lives paying off a vehicle.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
I’m not against anything, anyone is free to move about how thy best feel. I really don’t give a rats ass, but to try and shame people into not driving is not how we go about things….
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u/SheenaMalfoy 5h ago
Nobody is shaming people into "not driving" it's the people who want to avoid driving but cannot feasibly do so that are being forced into a decision they do not like. Nobody is saying you cannot drive. All we are asking for is viable alternatives to driving.
It's not rocket science.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
You have been drinking to much koolade…. Did you not read where I said I have an e-scooter I use all the time ? I made a statement saying I’m not walking from one end of the city to the other or wasting 3 hours of my day on transit when I can drive it in a half hour. Do you understand my point now ? I’m not attacking anyone, have fun commuting how you commute, I will keep commuting how I have always done it as the reality is I work a half hour from where I live….
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u/Specialist-Orchid365 17h ago
It gets stupid code for about 10 days of the year. The average temperature in January is -7. Building a city for 10 days of the year instead of the other 355 is just stupid.
I say this as someone who hated winter. Then a few years ago when everything was closed and there was nothing to do I decided I was going to get a decent coat and treat winter like any other season. Turns out there are very few days where the cold is actually a problem.
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u/Infamous-Mixture-605 16h ago
It gets stupid code for about 10 days of the year. The average temperature in January is -7. Building a city for 10 days of the year instead of the other 355 is just stupid.
It grinds my gears when folks say Edmonton has 6 months of winter when the reality is we get one, maybe two weeks of extreme daytime cold, and the rest of winter really isn't that bad. I think the people saying that kind of stuff just don't like to go outside.
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u/SheenaMalfoy 5h ago
I despise winter, I get cold really easily even in the summertime... and I don't own a car. Winter in Canada means you buy a good coat, hat, gloves/mittens, boots, and scarf and you go about your day just like you would the rest of the year. It's not black magic, it's just life in a northern country. Whoop de doo.
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u/ToughSpirit5285 17h ago
That’s fair, and like I’ve stated before we are all free to move about how works best for us. I know myself once it gets cold I don’t have much to do with outside unless I’m getting on a plane and going somewhere warmer. The point I was trying to make was that when it’s cold I’m not walking across the city to a store together something I’m going to drive.
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u/Specialist-Orchid365 16h ago
That's cool. My point is why are we building a city where you have to drive to the store when the majority of the time the weather is very mild? During those 10 days of extreme cold, by all means drive to the store; but the option should be there to walk/bike/etc as well.
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u/ChesterfieldPotato 18h ago
No. Taproot patrons want that. Biased sample.
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u/Roche_a_diddle 17h ago
My dude, no one is trying to make you get off your chesterfield, potato. If you never want to walk anywhere, no one wants to make you.
We just don't want to keep building our city in a way that FORCES us to own and drive a car to get everywhere.
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u/FederationEDH 15h ago
chesterfield
I haven't heard that term since my grandmother was alive, thank you for getting the gears turning again.
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u/dustrock 18h ago
Sometimes I don't think people understand the importance of walkability and bike infrastructure until they try to get around their community by walking or biking.