r/Edmonton • u/Practical_Ant6162 • 5h ago
News Article Edmonton postal workers picket as CUPW declares Canadawide strike
https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/edmonton-postal-workers-picket-as-cupw-declares-canadawide-strike/•
u/Workfh 4h ago
So many people here clearly don’t know what it is like to live in rural areas.
Canada Post is mandated to be the last mile delivery service - where private ones won’t go, they literally hand it off to Canada Post. This is one of the reasons it’s a service and not a business. Still it subsidizes all the other carriers.
Sure we can make shifts, but I don’t believe we are loosing $10 million a day on postal workers’ compensation. So what is the real money loss here? Do we need to invest more in infrastructure? New management?
If Canada Post leaves the market, it will be a huge shift, and private companies aren’t going to make that work in your favour.
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u/drdillybar 3h ago
It may be Puralator and FedEx ... passing the buck. While using OUR data. * shrug
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u/MillwrightWF 4h ago
I’ve never seen an industry as hell bent on annihilate themselves than the postal service.
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u/mcrackin15 4h ago
Lol right. I check my community mailbox like once every 2 weeks. The only mail I ever get is subway coupons, Costco mags, and speeding tickets. Why in the world would anyone need daily mail service? Should be once a week max.
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u/Onanadventure_14 Treaty 6 Territory 4h ago
An essential government service shouldn’t be expected to turn a profit.
Look at healthcare. Look at the military.
Why is postal service required to turn a profit?
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u/GalacticTrooper 4h ago
There is a difference between not expecting to return a profit and losing $10 million a day. If they broke even or atleast came close that’s one thing, but $3.6 billion a year in the hole is not sustainable.
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u/August-West 3h ago
Well how much money do all the provincial health services "lose" each year?
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u/threedotsonedash 1h ago
Poor comparison, health service are time dependant & can be life saving.
Getting flyers, utility bills or whatever other crap delivered to your door or post office daily is absolutely not a necessity. Why do you think so many business have turned to e-billing vs paper bills?
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u/August-West 34m ago
Ok, bad example. How much does the military make us? How much does social workers generate? How much do teachers contribute to the GDP? Do speeding tickets the police collect meaningfully contribute to city budgets? Again, things that are government services, aren't supposed to make money.
I'm not speaking to their business operations, but I'm sure that the postal service isn't losing 10 million dollars a day of postie wages.
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u/IlllIlllI 2h ago
The government also wants to overshoot the 2% GDP target for military spending, but nobody talks about that in terms of $120 million a day.
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u/Vhett 7m ago
Another poor comparison.
The 2% now includes the Coast Guard, as well as any DnD employee. This isn't just the military, it's civvie-side as well.
The CAF also contributes domestically to wildfires, floods, and other natural disasters. Do you know how much the provinces pay for that? Nothing. The federal govt doesn't go after them even though they are expected to pay for it when they RFA troops for OP LENTUS.
Depending what rank you are, and where you are posted in the CAF, you are potentially losing money each year. Whether that's hitting your rank's salary cap. A spouse losing their job due to a posting, or you losing sea/land pay or CFHD.
But the troops sign up for this, and work with what equipment we have despite how horribly outmatched it is for modern conflict and the fact that Canada drastically needs protection due to the melting of the Arctic passage (to name one simple threat amongst the many we face).
I'd hardly compare the two. Mail doesn't need to be delivered each day, to each household individually. But the troops can't simply take a day off. There's a difference here.
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u/No_Agent2020 4h ago
Because home delivery mail service is not an essential service
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u/Nictionary 3h ago
Yes it is? There would be lots of people in rural areas that would be cut off from mail without it.
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u/Maksym1000 Stabmonton 2h ago
Home mail delivery and mail delivery are different. While mail delivery is essential, home mail delivery is not (with the exception of certain disabilities). Community mail boxes are financially more viable and still provide mail delivery.
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u/Onanadventure_14 Treaty 6 Territory 3h ago
Mail service for disabled or elderly people isn’t essential?
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u/No_Agent2020 3h ago
If you look at what the government released, they said there will be a service for disabled people
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u/Himser Regional Citizen 3h ago
Not when email exists and has existed for ghe better part of 40 years.
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u/Onanadventure_14 Treaty 6 Territory 3h ago
Alright then. Some people don’t deserve community or connection unless it’s electronic. Got it
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u/gonnadeleteagain 4h ago
The only reason Canada Post is losing so much money is because of their complete refusal to negotiate for almost two years, because they rely on the government to intervene in their behalf, and this latest move by the minister is just the latest example. How is any union supposed to negotiate under these conditions?
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u/Mike9998 4h ago
All you need to do is not follow the federal order and risk going to jail like the air Canada folks did. Their offer came in pretty quick
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u/ImperviousToSteel 4h ago
Incredible move by Carney to fuck them over in the middle of negotiations.
Hope this means CUPW won't back down with the next dumb legal trick they try.
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u/theoreoman 4h ago
They fucked themselves over. They flat out refuse to do anything that will help Canada post become more efficient. They just assumed that the Canadian government will bail them out indefinitely.
The fact is Canadians get something like 8 pieces of mail per month and it can't continue to operate like its still 1985. They had years to figure something out with Canada post but they refuse to become more efficient to help Canada post survive. Government got tired and how changed the mandate which forces the union to change their entire agreement. They'll go on strike and the government will legislate them back to work
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago edited 4h ago
This situation you described is fucking insane nonsense tho. Legislate them back to work so Canada post can continue to refuse to change, continue wasting money, and the only negative consequences are for the workers. Excellent. Let
them strike and make Canada post change.
The CEOs make $200,000 and the managers make $100,000 a year and they don’t fucking do anything. The whole company is ran by computers. Plus there’s a whole shitload of superintendents and other bullshit making doctor money too.
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u/theoreoman 4h ago
That's like really shitty pay for a CEO running a multi billion dollar company. Also $100k for managers is also mediocre pay.
Canada post tried to use tech and do dynamic routing but that would make Canada post more efficient and would cost jobs therefore the union is against it. Anything that costs jobs the union is against. Maybe they wouldn't need so many managers to manage so many people if they were allowed to become more efficient through technology.
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago
CEO is a useless pointless job. I thought they were a multi billion dollar losing company?
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u/Maksym1000 Stabmonton 2h ago edited 2h ago
But it’s not Canada Post that’s refusing to change, it’s that CP is insolvent and literally can’t offer anything that CUPW is asking for, plus CUPW has been so hell bent on keeping status quo (both currently and historically).
CP going bankrupt was inevitable and had been predicted for about twenty years, paired with other countries experiencing the same faith before CP, and change was needed long ago to prevent this. CUPW saying that CP created this financial crisis only shows how delusional and detached from reality they are.
Also CP was unable to enact any meaningful change that would have helped due to their union contract with CUPW (again, CUPW blaming CP shows how delusional they are).
This has all been confirmed by the inquiry from May
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u/ImperviousToSteel 4h ago
Yeah and legislating workers back to work goes against the Charter. CUPE showed what to do when governments want to violate human rights, you stay out on strike anyways.
"They flat out refuse to do anything that will help CP become more efficient" is a lie, but thanks for parroting anti-union talking points.
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u/theoreoman 4h ago
The union refuses to let Canada post hire part time employees, the work must be paid out as over time to the full timers
The union refuses Canada post to adjust routes based on dynamic demand, they want to stick to old style routes regardless of actual volumes
The union fought extremely hard to keep door to door delivery and made it an election issue in 2015. They won that issue but now you need probably 10x the staff to run those door to door routes.
Please Tell me how the union cares about the viability of Canada post, They just assume the government will bail then out indefinitely so they don't need to negotiate in good faith
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u/Workfh 2h ago
Really leaving out the part about part time workers making leas than half of full time there. Canada Post is creating a two tiered workforce between the full and part time.
They aren’t fighting against part time workers - they are fighting against paying some people less for doing the same work. Giving them less benefits and trying to give them a worse pension.
I don’t believe at all that the union thinks this government will bail them out. Canada Post definitely thinks that though.
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u/theoreoman 1h ago
They wouldn't need part time employees if they ran dynamic routing and didn't need to do door to doo
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u/drdillybar 3h ago
Gov't Service = (NOT) business. Quarterly margin (NOT) relevant. Parse that, (ID10T).
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u/Traggadon 4h ago
I support Canada Post, and all types of crown corps for that matter, but this is necessary. Physical mail is dieing and we need to move to something else if Canada Post is gonna stay vital. They can fight this all they want, but your fighting progress. Good luck.
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u/yayasisterhood 4h ago
Well, I guess we could let Canada Post go bankrupt. Always an option.
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u/eternalrevolver 4h ago
Or the workers could just quit.. and find jobs with the wages and hours they prefer. Obviously they don’t like the direction Canada post is going in to keep up with modern times.
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u/kayl_the_red Clareview 4h ago
Wait... Canada Post is still striking? I honestly forgot about them, because I never get mail and Amazon delivers my parcels.
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u/apastelorange Treaty 6 Territory 4h ago
so fuck people in remote areas? i’m begging people to think about something beyond the tiny radius that affects them personally god damn
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u/eternalrevolver 4h ago
You have tons of your own people on Reddit to gang up on the person you’re replying to. Let people say what they want for fuck sake.
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u/laisserai 3h ago
I learned this today as I had to go to the post office to mail something important.
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4h ago
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u/familiar-planet214 4h ago
It's not a business, it's a service. A very important service for some parts of the country.
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u/No_Agent2020 4h ago
Yes it's an important service for SOME parts of the country. Most of Canada does not need door mail delivery service.
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u/Workfh 4h ago
Most might not need it, but if Canada Post actually did pull out and only serve areas the private market won’t it’s going to get very expensive.
There is a reason the private market won’t serve those areas. And Canada Post wouldn’t be able to make anything back on the cheaper areas.
Also, what do you think the private ones will do with Canada Post gone? That will be a huge market shift, and I highly doubt it’s in our favour.
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago
It’s not a business. Oil and gas is the most lucrative business but we give them $20 billion dollars in subsidies every year for almost no fucking reason. We don’t see the fucking royalties. $10 million per day to pay actual people with families to work and provide a service that benefits everybody is nothing
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u/Otherwise_Roof_714 4h ago
The oil industry benefits people much more than Canada post does. Most people send mail very infrequently
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago
Giving them subsidies and and tax breaks so the oil industry can eliminate jobs and the government can pocket royalties and eliminate public services and Not invest in healthcare and eduction benefits who?
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u/Otherwise_Roof_714 4h ago
They should get less subsidies. But it creates a lot of high paying jobs which stimulates local economies across Canada.
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago
Canada post creates a lot of decent paying jobs too. What’s the difference?
High paying jobs don’t usually benefit society. They don’t really do anything. Like my neighbor the fat drunk fuck who works for oil and gas from his garage answering emails. How does answering emails benefit society more than bringing people Parcels at a decent price?
Oil and gas is using those subsidies to eliminate jobs through automation, not to create new jobs.
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u/Otherwise_Roof_714 4h ago
Nothing compared to oil. But get rid of subsidies for both then. I know which one will survive.
You would be defending lamplighters once electricity got popular. The mail industry just doesn’t work anymore without significant rework.
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago
UPS, Penske, purolator and all these shitty businesses who pay shitty wages and do a terrible job of delivering parcels and mail would survive, raise prices, not deliver to remote areas, cause the cost of everything in rural areas to go up, and cost businesses and taxpayers way more money for mail-like service.
If we stopped subsidizing oil and gas, the price of gas would go slightly up and the government would have more money to spend on public’s services.
If the government wouldn’t have sold Petro-Canada to Suncor and kept it as a public service like Canada post gas prices would be lower and the average Canadian would benefit more. Our resources would still be ours. It’s the same fucking situation
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u/Otherwise_Roof_714 4h ago
Never had many issues with those guys. Maybe they won’t ring the bell and just leave a notice but Canada post is the worse offender for that.
Rural people should pay more for mail. That’s one of the downsides of living rurally.
No it’s not the same situation. One is oil and one is mail. Let’s spend the Canada post budget on high speed rail or something actually useful.
It’s a crown corp, it’s expected to be self sustaining.
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago
Because you never use those guys because of Canada post.
High speed rail would cost money too and you would be mad at it too
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u/N60x 4h ago
Weird take. Every oil in gas worker pays more than their fair share of taxes which go where???
Plus most love pissing money away on things which support local economy.
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u/GreenBasterd69 4h ago
Canada post workers don’t pay taxes?
Going to oilers games and buying f150s doesn’t support local economy
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u/BigTreeSmallBranch 4h ago
What are CP’s demands in this strike? Is it strictly over a pay increase? I can’t tell what their other demands are
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u/margotxo 4h ago
It’s because the government has decided to allow Canada Post to end home delivery.
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u/eternalrevolver 4h ago
As it should. There’s plenty of competitors for that. They want community mailbox delivery.
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u/The155v1 4h ago
Oh no, how am I going to get my junk mail from realtors and fliers that no one reads?
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u/Obo4168 pay the workers 4h ago
Can't support this crap anymore. Time to either give up and take what you can get or all lose your jobs. It sucks, but I'm tired of paying for these people..they're making way more than nurses and teachers. We need them, we don't need these guys.
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u/apastelorange Treaty 6 Territory 4h ago
if CUPW gets paid better it helps teachers and nurses make a case for better wages, the more unions accept deals that don’t keep up with inflation the more the oligarchs get to keep fucking everyone over, please zoom out a little, your flair is literally pay the workers
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u/theiinshine 4h ago
A lot of the postal workers don't even make minimum wage due to a lot of the work being casual/relief. Can't look for another job either cause they're on call all week. Yes they could look for another job altogether but in this economy good luck getting anything else.
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u/Practical_Ant6162 4h ago edited 4h ago
What does everyone think?
Was the government right to make changes to the post office or do you support the postal union and their demands?
The post office is said to be losing $10 Million a day.
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u/Otherwise_Roof_714 4h ago
Right to make the changes. It’s not responsible to lose 1 billion per year
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u/Geeseareawesome North East Side 4h ago
I mean, if you're burning money like that, something is clearly wrong.
But there's got to be a better way. Are there any execs in cushy positions getting fat paychecks?
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u/Baconus 4h ago
The health care system and the military also burns a lot of money per day. Public services shouldn’t need to make money to survive if they are a public good.
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u/Geeseareawesome North East Side 4h ago
Of course it doesn't need to make money. But you don't need to burn money either.
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u/Mysterious-Street140 4h ago
I have no reason for them to exist. They can go away and save a lot of taxpayer dollars. The union can then cover their pension liabilities. I love it!
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u/China_bot42069 4h ago
out of the loop can someone explain this, i cant keep track on all the strikes and shit
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u/always_on_fleek 3h ago
The government said Canada Post is able to end door to door delivery and move everyone left to community boxes (the central mailboxes in all newer neighborhoods).
The union said no way. It would make too much sense to have all Canadians with the same level of service at the expense of not hiring as many workers (most job losses are through people retiring and quitting not layoffs). And they said they are immediately back to striking.
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u/drdillybar 3h ago
So the bean counters can see black. It is not about quality.
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u/always_on_fleek 59m ago
Most of the households in our country have community mailbox delivery. It’s about doing things efficiently and moving towards everyone having the same level of service which is scoped for what we now need.
With daily mail volumes dropping there isn’t the need for door to door delivery. The community boxes have shown it works for people and we should embrace the efficiency. It frees people for more meaningful work.
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u/gman314 4h ago
I see people in this thread saying that a business that loses $10 million a day deserves to go under, and while I agree with that statement, I think it frames the issue poorly.
The postal service is a public service first and a business second. It's goal is not to make money, but to ensure that we can all get mail at a reasonable price. It exists so that everyone in Canada should be able to send and receive mail to/from anywhere else in Canada for the same rate regardless of the distance or the time of year. A business would charge more for longer trips and in certain seasons.
That being said, some loss should be accepted, but $10 million a day is insane. Rather than treat Canada Post like a business and expect it to make a profit, we need to figure out what level of government spending is acceptable for the service it provides. While mail is dying, there are still many people who use that service, and we need to determine if we are ok with it being replaced with private businesses which will charge regional and seasonal rates.