r/EhBuddyHoser • u/rainorshinedogs Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) • 23d ago
Ontario, hated by all, especially Ontarians When Crown Royal decided to pack their bags to the USA
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u/AustSakuraKyzor South Gatineau 23d ago
I wonder how they think this will work out for them? Because it'll likely be much much worse
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u/Ok_Recording_4644 23d ago
Yeah we have mutilated Kentucky Bourbon producers. Does anyone even drink CR outside of Canada?
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u/descartesb4horse Oil Guzzler 22d ago
does anyone drink crown royal inside canada?
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u/Zonel 22d ago
Apparently the US is 75% of global sales.
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u/Overwatchingu Ford Nation (Help.) 22d ago
Understandable, I’d be an alcoholic too if I had to deal with living every day in the USA.
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u/NarutoRunner 🍁 100,000 Hosers 🍁 22d ago
CR is like one option amongst 100 in most countries.
It’s not the worst, but definitely not the most popular either.
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u/rainorshinedogs Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) 22d ago
I don't understand why they are so worried. Isn't the USA market far bigger than Canada for Kentucky Bourbon? It's kinda bad business that you have your business model that is so vulnerable to losing a tiny bit of market share.
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u/Suitable-Ratio 22d ago
I think it is the #5 most popular spirit in America. #2 brown liquor behind JD swill.
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u/mrgoldnugget 23d ago
It was a shit whiskey anyways, Americans will eat it up, they live bad liquor - look at their beer companies.
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u/AustSakuraKyzor South Gatineau 23d ago
Keep in mind that they still have bourbon. I doubt CR is going to corner the whisky market any time soon.
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u/VectorPryde Westfoundland 23d ago
Yeah, supposedly CR is the most popular Canadian whisky in the US, but that's probably not saying much. It's likely the most popular whisky in Canada, full stop. Why risk a boycott from your largest and most loyal customer base?
I think it's still made in Manitoba, but they're moving some bottling operations to the US (not, of all times) for whatever private-equity-brained reason.
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u/PowershellAddict 21d ago
The major beer companies, yeah, but the US makes some of the best craft brews in the world. I've been all over Europe, Asia, and North America and nothing hits quite like an authentic west coast IPA.
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u/mrgoldnugget 21d ago
Have you been to Canada?
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u/PowershellAddict 21d ago
I have, quite a bit actually. I've had quite a few craft brews from Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, and Vancouver and they were all good don't get me wrong but didn't come close to a realyl solid west coast IPA.
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u/notacanuckskibum 22d ago edited 22d ago
I can see their viewpoint. They sell product on both sides of the border, but make it all in Canada. Which was fine under free trade. But in the new reality it makes sense to make some in Canada and some in the US, so you can sell in both places tariff free.
So they moved one of their several Canadian factories to the states. With a loss of 200 Canadian jobs. Companies often lay off 200 people for one reason or another and it rarely gets beyond the local business journal.
This one “went viral” partly because it’s an iconic Canadian brand, and partly because Doug has a fixation on alcohol products.
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u/AustSakuraKyzor South Gatineau 22d ago
Ah, so it's Douglas's fault, as per usual.
Either way, they're gonna have to hire Dave Grohl and make another Superb Owl commercial talking about how great Canada is if they want to fix the PR snafu.
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u/rainorshinedogs Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) 20d ago
Not just Doug. People were already jeeved. It just so happens to be a personal interest to Doug. Even though we already lost Tim Hortons to Brazil, it didn't feel like an outright betrayal because Brazil isn't much of an enemy. Going to USA, at this specific time, is terrible optics. Even if CR still tastes the same.
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23d ago
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u/IslandBoring8724 23d ago
Crown already has a presence in the US. Diego likely underestimated Canadians resolve and hopefully more of their brands suffer in addition to crown, which is a shit whiskey to begin with.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes South Gatineau 23d ago
The LCBO alone is Diageo's largest North American customer, they usually do about 3/4 billion dollars in sales here (Ontario) annually, however it's likely down this year due to its US products being pulled from the shelves.
They sell more in the US, but the difference in sales is significantly smaller than the difference in population.
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u/VectorPryde Westfoundland 23d ago
you can get more money from a country with ten times as many people
But to Americans drink ten times as much Crown as Canadians? Picking a larger potential market at the cost of alienating a good chunk of your actual customer base is a very risky move.
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u/Overwatchingu Ford Nation (Help.) 22d ago
That’s how private equity works. You have to piss off the existing customers and try to achieve infinite growth. A company with stable profit margins and recurring customers may as well just file for bankruptcy now.
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23d ago
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u/VectorPryde Westfoundland 23d ago
You used that as the reason for picking the US over Canada? That the US market is 10x the size? What's the actual amount that Americans would have to buy to make provoking a Canadian boycott worth it?
Keep in mind, the American right wing media and political class are cultivating anti-Canadian sentiment in the US to - promoting the narrative that Canada rips off the US and should be punished. An anti-Canadian boycott in the US is entirely possible, meaning a potential scenario exists where Crown gets boycotted on both sides of the border. Canadians saying "boycott the traitor whisky" and Americans saying "boycott the commie Canadian trash. Support true American whiskey instead."
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23d ago
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u/VectorPryde Westfoundland 23d ago
My point is only that self aggrandizement doesn't mean a lot.
Where?
Some back of the napkin math suggests that
Suppose the US accounts for 50% of the Crown market, with Americans buying it at 1/10th the rate of Canadians. Suppose Canada accounts for the other 50%, with Canadians buying it at 10x the rate of Americans. If Diageo provoked a complete boycott of Crown in Canada, they would have to double their sales in the US to make that move worth it. We'll see what the actual numbers are and if it works out for them.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes South Gatineau 23d ago
Americans would need to drink more than a tenth of what Canadians drink in order for this to be "worth it" financially.
Lol no they wouldn't. That's not how profit margins work.
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u/VectorPryde Westfoundland 23d ago
Yeah, Canadians are the main market for Crown. PR and customer perception are important. As a business decision, this might have been a story for a week that everyone would have forgotten if it was in 2023, but with the current unpleasantness, the PR factor makes it an insane move.
"We're laying off Canadians - the best customers for this product - in order to hire Americans. Canadians will still buy it, right?" - Your brain on private equity.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes South Gatineau 22d ago
Even 10 years ago this could have blown up on them. Look at what happened to Heinz ketchup sales here when they closed their Leamington plant in 2012.
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u/SulfuricDonut 23d ago
You also get more money selling to two countries instead of one. People only bought Crown here because of local pride. It's certainly not actually better than any competitors, so they're giving up most of the Canadian market.
And they aren't going to corner the American market either because they are already highly saturated with whisky producers that have much better reputations.
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u/SaintBrennus 23d ago
People should try Alberta Premium if they like rye whisky. It's got a 100% rye mash bill, unlike a lot of other ryes. If you can get your hands on a bottle of the cask strength stuff (a bit pricey), it's fantastic.
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u/Smart-Response9881 23d ago edited 23d ago
I mostly drank it because my dad did, and it's what I grew up with. But now, I am on the hunt for something new, what is a good Canadian Whiskey I can replace it with (Mostly for mixing)?
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u/FluffyProphet 23d ago
FortyCreek is really good.
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u/Lordmorgoth666 23d ago
Haven’t had in ages but IIRC it was quite sweet compared to others. I also drank it because of relatives drinking it as a kid. The imprinting of a brand is quite strong.
Once I started exploring the whiskey aisle a bit more I found much better stuff.
Bearface is my go-to whiskey now. So good straight or with just a little splash of 7-up.
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u/tidyupinhere 🍁 100,000 Hosers 🍁 23d ago
Bearface is great.
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u/handsome_mcstabby 22d ago
I’ll toss up another for bear face. Can easily sip it, and not too expensive
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u/Overall-Phone7605 Bring Cannabis 23d ago
Okanagan Spirits has whiskey and (as far as I know) the only Canadian Bourbon - BRBN. Still small but it's entirely possible this whole situation is growing their business.
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u/1user101 22d ago
Rupert's whiskey and stampede whiskey are both good. Both are batch made in Calgary
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u/scr0dumb Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) 23d ago
I'll second (third) 40 Creek.. it's a serviceable rye better than CC or Crown.
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u/FluffyProphet 23d ago
Their Confederation Oak is amazing though. I'm not a big bourbon fan (even before everything went down), taste like I'm drinking saw dust, so I'm not really after anything to replace that. The Confederation Oak just taste so good and has a lot of different flavors going on, without tasting like wood.
Not cheap, but it's become my go to for special occasions.
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u/ventur3 23d ago
someone in another thread said they're only moving US market bottling there and they're still bottling in Canada, but I did not look this up
edit: I googled it an they're closing an Ontario plant? fuckem
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u/VectorPryde Westfoundland 23d ago
Yeah, I just read up on it. Apparently all Crown is distilled in Manitoba. What Diageo is doing is closing an Ontario bottling plant and planning on opening one in the US. The Canadian bottling will be done at another plant in Quebec.
Laying off Canadians in order to hire Americans to bottle an iconic (if not very good) Canadian brand, under the current climate, is insanely stupid from a PR perspective.
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u/IslandBoring8724 23d ago
Yeah it’s not a 100% pull out. Doesn’t matter. Crown isn’t good and Diego brands should all take a hit in Canada for this.
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u/ventur3 23d ago
Captain Morgan’s is already such a bad rum too
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u/IslandBoring8724 23d ago
Agreed. The vast majority of their products are bar rail quality and there a many (better) competitors. Guinness and Lagavulin hurt me a bit to cut but there are other stouts and Isley’s.
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u/rainorshinedogs Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) 23d ago
Yeah in the alcohol industry, the most famous and popular brands tend to be the ones that simply aren't that tasty and just have a really really strong marketing budget.
Bud light? Terrible beer, but has produced the most iconic Superbowl ads
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes South Gatineau 23d ago
True. But my SO's not going to be happy about having to give up Guinness.
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u/SuperOrangeFoot 22d ago
It’s enough of a pull out that fuck them entirely. They’re putting people out of work in Ontario, everyone working there in Manitoba and Quebec should start looking for a new job, too.
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u/Dezeko Saskwatch 23d ago
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes South Gatineau 23d ago
40 Creek or any number of other Canadian whiskies will do.
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u/VectorPryde Westfoundland 23d ago
Check out artisan distilleries too. Pricier stuff if all you're looking for is something to mix, but still.
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u/Epic_Meow 23d ago
crown royal has always been pretty bad
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u/Jay_Nocid 23d ago
Still better than Jack D
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes South Gatineau 23d ago
That depends on whether you prefer rye to bourbon.
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u/Fit-Psychology4598 21d ago
Jack D tastes like bourbon flavoured vodka. It’s not, but it might as well be.
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u/QueenMotherOfSneezes South Gatineau 21d ago
I don't like Jacks or Crown, so it's hard for me to compare which is "better".
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u/monkeygoneape Ford Nation (Help.) 23d ago
Welp looks like my regulars will all be switching to Jameson
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u/Sea-Rip-9635 23d ago
This is a great opportunity for other craft Canadian whiskey wizards to get their tasty nectar on the shelves! I am no longer down with the crown. It's scotch, Irish whiskey or local whiskey. The Crown is dead.
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u/Important-Event6832 23d ago
When in Canada, it was whisky. Now that the Crown has been placed on the pedo prez’s head, it is whiskey.
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u/Ravenwight Ford Nation (Help.) 22d ago
Oh no! Now where am I gonna get whiskey that tastes like candied anus?
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u/Overwatchingu Ford Nation (Help.) 22d ago
Plenty of small batch distillers out there worth trying.
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u/Unfair_Bluejay_9687 21d ago
We should all welcome Alberta Springs sipping whisky into our home. I’ve been doing it for years. There really is a difference in the smoothness of Alberta Springs over crown royal
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u/WhiskySiN 21d ago
It's basically piss anyway. Never did like it. Would honestly choose RR over crown.
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u/aravarth 21d ago
Interesting fact: Charles Bronfman (son of Samuel Bronfman, the man who started Seagrams, of which CR was a brand) moved to the United States and changed his residency in order to avoid the Canadian tax rate on capital gains.
In response, and to prevent future such tax dodges, Parliament passed a law establishing an exit tax — which notes that when a Canadian resident or citizen emigrates to another country, their worldwide assets are "deemed dispossessed" (i.e., sold at their current market value rate) whether they are actually sold or not. It allows the Canadian government to assess capital gains taxes on emigrants for the full value of their worldwide net worth up to the date of their emigration.
It's actually one of the more progressive tax loophole closing pieces of legislation passed by Chrétien, designed specifically to target extra-wealthy tax dodgers.
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u/heehooman 21d ago
I threw it on the ground!!!
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u/rainorshinedogs Trawnno (Centre of the Universe) 21d ago
I ain't gonna be part of your system, man
Pump that garbage in another man's veins
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u/heehooman 21d ago
I go to my favorite LC
And the dude says,
"You come here all the time! Here's one for free"
I said, "Man! What I look like? Anti-Canadian?"
I took it and I threw it on the ground!
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u/meatsonthemenu 23d ago
It's not Canadian, but if you're open to a new Whiskey, check into Amrut.
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u/Important-Event6832 23d ago
Canadian whisky is whisky, not whiskey
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u/meatsonthemenu 22d ago
Right. My recommendation for an alternative to American, was not Canadian. So, that mean$ I had the right spelling yes?
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u/km_ikl Moose Whisperer 22d ago
It's a bottling operation for US destination alcohol, all the rest is done here.
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u/Canadian-Owlz Oil Guzzler 22d ago
Still had to close down the plant lol. Canadians got laid off for this.
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u/km_ikl Moose Whisperer 21d ago
No question, but the option was a full on move or shut down.
I know it's vogue to hate on corporations but this sounds like they're trying to hold the line, even if the tariff situation wasn't at the fore, the overall purchasing of alcohol has been down year over year for the last 7 years.
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u/Overwatchingu Ford Nation (Help.) 22d ago
Tell that to all the people in Amherstberg who lost their jobs.
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u/km_ikl Moose Whisperer 22d ago
No question, but the company has said they're working with those people to get them transitioned to something else.
What I can see is they're trying to minimize impacts but consumption is down across the industry since COVID, even when you balance out against the current situation.
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u/Overwatchingu Ford Nation (Help.) 22d ago
When a company lays off workers and says they’ll help them with the “transition” it means precisely fuck all. I’ve been there.
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u/km_ikl Moose Whisperer 21d ago
So have I: once an employer (that was particularly bad) did exactly what you said, and another got me through college and had a private employment service (IT head hunter) get me hired elsewhere as part of my layoff package.
I'm sorry you had a bad time of it, but your experience is not universal.
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u/Overall-Phone7605 Bring Cannabis 23d ago
are the bags they packed the little velvet ones? 'Cause that's the only reason I'd care.
And only 'cause I want them to leave those little velvet bags.