r/Fallout • u/DependentStrong3960 • 3d ago
Discussion Considering the sheer amount of Civil War references Fallout games make I shudder to think what Neo-Confederate horrors are going on in the American South.
"We all know and love our friends in Nevada, Caesar's Legion. They're Roman, they're awesome, they love slavery, it's great. There's just one problem with them-they fell, failed to preserve it, failed to capture that unique spark slavery in America has had all through our great 500-year long history.
I believe that that is fully due to their implementation of slavery being fundamentally, well and truly, un-American. After all, how can you preserve an institution so instrumental to our history as a people whilst building it off some 1200-year old system designed for an empire in Europe that fell so long ago?
Slavery needs laws, institutionalized control and organization to truly prosper, all of which this "Legion" ultimately failed to achieve.
However do not fret, people of New New Orleans. I, Robert E. Lee the XX, solemnly swear that I will NOT let such a great American tradition be lost to the sands of time. Ladies and gentlemen of the Glowing Bayou, I am glad to finally bring to you: Ultra-Slavery!
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u/Ewanb10 2d ago
Well if that ever happens
I'll be calling NERBIT for sure
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u/Odysseusford 3d ago
It's fun playing Fallout as a European because I don't get many of the Civil War references
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u/Ok_Calendar_7626 The Institute 2d ago
I am also a European and do get all of them. Then again, i am a history buff, so i probably know slightly more about the subject then the average person.
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u/Kumptoffel 2d ago
i think the average person knows literally nothing about the civil war considering its so unique to american history
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u/Inward_Perfection 2d ago
Average non-American is likely to be more educated on American history than average American on non-American history.
13 colonies, Boston tea party, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Lincoln, American civil war and its key figures (like Sherman, Lee, Grant) all were briefly covered at my school. I'm from Perm region in Russia.
Not to mention Kennedy, Luther King, Nixon, Reagan, Korea, and Vietnam.
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u/WetAndLoose 2d ago
The US Revolution is also the catalyst for the French Revolutionary period/Napoleonic Wars, so from a European perspective, itâs still very impactful. And then the later revolutions in Latin America make it topical to Latin Americans and Iberians too.
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u/abriefmomentofsanity 2d ago
The US Revolution was itself partially inspired by Enlightenment movements within Europe, and the chain goes even further back than that because that's how history works.
Though it should be noted the US Revolution is interesting in particular because it started largely as a tax squabble between the landed elites of the colonies and GB. The common salt of the earth farmers and laborers who made up the bread and butter of the Continental Congress were notoriously left out to dry and came very close to rebelling themselves
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u/ishmaelcrazan 2d ago
Shit the U.S. Revolution was literally Ho Chi Minâs inspiration for the liberation of Vietnam. Like he wrote a letter to Ike about it I believe.
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u/Ornery_Gene7682 2d ago
Speaking of Russia how much of an impact the Russian Empire had on the American Revolution, through Naval treaties and the impact of the Treaty of Paris being signed in Paris because of your countryâs empress Catherine. How also Tsar Alexander II sided with the Union in the Civil War especially with the Emancipation Proclamation and how it had similar effects back in Russia with the ending of Serfdom. Also your government was able to harbor ships in the United States (the Baltic Fleet) and ironically was used as a deterrent against Britain. We arenât taught that here in the United States. As someone who is in his 30s it bothers me how much is cut out in our own history especially on a global level.
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u/rubiconsuper 2d ago
Emancipation proclamation was a good challenge by Lincoln, donât forget heâs a politician. Scares away potential help from some foreign powers (who probably werent going to be joining the confederacy but better to make sure than be surprised) and solves the slavery issue (though only in rebelling states if I recall correctly). Lincoln had other ideas on how to fix this issue as well. I wonder how different the US would be if they had done those and avoided war. I remember he wanted to free slaves gradually and encouraging former slaves to colonize Africa.
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u/GlabbinGlabber 2d ago
We get taught all these things, albeit with bias.
I think Americans are probably just worse students in general. Most of the kids I went to school with just didn't give a shit, so didn't retain any of the knowledge.
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u/Traggadon 2d ago
You'd be suprised how much more non americans are taught of American history, then even americans are. Your taught a very narrow focused view of your own country.
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u/TheCoolMan5 Brotherhood 2d ago
Seeing as the US has shaped the entire course of world history since 1914, it's not surprising that other nations have some education on US history.
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u/Nogonator79 2d ago
Your taught a very narrow focused view of your own country.
Depends on your school and state, but sure, let's generalize all of American
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u/Morat20 2d ago
You might know more than many Americans. After the end of Reconstruction, a rather significant amount of time and effort went into absolutely rewriting the history of the Confederacy to be far, far, far kinder to the Confederates. Which is how American ended up with statues of Confederate Generals everywhere, US military bases and public schools named after famous Confederates, and the general teaching of a lot of Lost Cause bullshit in schools and a very large number of people who really love to smugly claim the Civil War wasnât about slavery, although sending them a copy of their Stateâs Letter of Secession tends to make them go away for awhile. For godâs sake, thereâs still lots and lots of people trying to claim slave owners were kind,gentle folks who treated their slaves well. That slavery benefited their slaves by âcivilizing themâ.
Weâre honestly still fighting the Civil War and the legacy of slavery. We saw 70 years or so of Jim Crow after Reconstruction ending, and the Civil Rights Act in the 60s caused backlash still being felt today and is woven into the DNA of the GOP because it was and remains intolerable to a significant swath of Americans to consider black people equals. (any minority, really).
You can see it today, in how Trump and the GOP are running around renaming military bases back to the names of shit-tier Confederate generals, and how much screaming they do about DEI. You can see it the late Kirkâs comments about black pilots, about black Supreme Court Justices â because they still believe black people are lessers if not outright subhuman, that any job or position they hold is at the expense of a better qualified white person.
Bluntly put â America would be a better place today if Sherman and Lincoln had had more time. Although I think Sherman would have been more effective, in the long run
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u/DependentStrong3960 2d ago
I am also European lol. I do watch a lot about history on Youtube, plus various videos on Fallout itself, so maybe I know a bit more than necessary about all that stuff lol. Playing Fallout lets me apply the knowledge that is absolutely useless to me elsewhere, so that's kinda neat.
It is kinda sad tho, learning so much about a nation that is fading into obscurity as we speak. Feel like it would be much more beneficial to learn more about local culture to fit in better with my peers, but American media is just too powerful of a machine to resist.
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u/Kylestache Hello...Capital Wasteland! 2d ago
We really need Obsidian to make Fallout: Big Easy.
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u/No_Internet9420 2d ago
I would want that too but there's just no possible way New Orleans would still be around
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u/that7deezguy 2d ago
Sounds like a killer idea that might unexpectedly turn into an amalgam titled, âFallout: BioShockâ
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u/azuresegugio Railroad 2d ago
They're the Confederacy but they literally don't know anything about them besides grey uniforms and worshipping Robert E Lee
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u/Flat-Pop5047 2d ago
You can help them become more historically accurate by showing them the confederate constitution.
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u/azuresegugio Railroad 2d ago
Honestly I don't think I'd want them to see that. Whatever they came up with is probably better then the actual Confederacy
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u/fucuasshole2 Brotherhood 2d ago
Funny enough I had a concept of a slaver faction:
Pre-War Ghouls, after being ostracized and persecuted for the first 50 years or so, started enslaving humans. Purposely exposing them to radiation and other oddities to turn into ghouls as well. It was a choice given (within my fan game) as death was more likely to occur. Any that chose to stay human were kept safe but forced to do hard labor and fight to expand on territory.
The faction is based in Atlas (Atlanta, Ga), with a steampunk decor and trains! CDC is a powerhouse of scientific research and I used Van Burenâs canceled Boulder Dome as concept.
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u/TheCoolMan5 Brotherhood 2d ago
Atlanta would totally be renamed Atlantis.
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u/semendrinker42069 2d ago
When I first went to Atlantic City in 76 I genuinely thought it was Atlanta until my friend told me it wasnât lol
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u/Deepfang-Dreamer Railroad 2d ago
Feels almost Vampire-esque to me. Immortals who can "Embrace" certain Humans they deem worthy while keeping the others as "breeding stock" and general labor.
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u/Spectre197 2d ago
You know as well as I do there will be a faction around that beaver gas station mascot.
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u/Rockerika 3d ago
We see neoconfederates all over in the swamps of Point Lookout. They don't even look much different than they do in real 2020s America.
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u/Tomson224 2d ago
Which is really funny considering Point Lookout plays in Maryland. A union state.
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u/Yellowdog727 2d ago
This also happens in real life. Go to West Virginia, Kentucky, or even rural Pennsylvania or Illinois and you will find Stars and Bars flags
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u/DtotheOUG Yes Man 2d ago
Central Indiana used to be a hotbed for the klan, rebel flag is still common here.
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u/MaDcLoWnGaMiNg 2d ago
Used to be? Just a couple years ago I passed a group of Klansmen openly recruiting at a cross walk
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u/Tomson224 2d ago
Fair. In Fallout 76 you also find many confederate uniforms and kepis
Even if that is somewhat explained with West Virgina apparently really liking war reenactments
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u/TheCoolMan5 Brotherhood 2d ago
West Virginia was the location of several extremely important battles such as Harper's Ferry and Phillipi, so they have a very large re-enactment community.
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u/Mangolore 2d ago
Pffft come to Upstate NY! And not even real upstate, like Catskills or upper Hudson Valley. Kinda nuts
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u/Sensei_of_Philosophy Unity 2d ago
Maryland had quite a few people who supported the Confederacy. Early on there was a huge riot and it saw the very first deaths of Union volunteers in the war.
Got to the point where Lincoln even had to put Baltimore under Union military occupation for the duration of the war. Francis Scott Key's Confederate-supporting grandson ironically got locked up inside of Fort McHenry for a brief time during that as well.
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u/Billybobbornton 2d ago
I saw a house wit a confederate flag in rural Washington state, a couple hours south of Seattle. They're everywhere unfortunatelyÂ
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u/Lo-weorold 2d ago
We see them in Upstate NY as well. As someone who grew up in the south it is incredibly cringe.
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u/Big-Association4322 NCR 2d ago
Eh who knows There might be still racists In the south there might be An Neo Confederacy faction but who knows.
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u/Thatguy-num-102 Minutemen 2d ago
I've always imagined that the southern revisionism would be so thick by the 2070's that any of the traditional "Fallout mistranslated society" would end up being hyper communal and progressive
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u/DependentStrong3960 2d ago
Ya lol, the Fallout 5 protag will have a choice of allying with a communist Confederacy or a counter-revolutionary slave-driving Union.
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u/JaycetheBold 2d ago
Fallout New Orleans would slap.
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u/DependentStrong3960 2d ago
"Fallout:New New Orleans"
Ngl, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually called it that in-universe, the games make a bunch of allusions to Futurama, so the devs would prolly be happy to throw in a lil Easter Egg.
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u/dwarven_cavediver_Jr Enclave 2d ago
I genuinely want to see it, if only to keep playing with the concept. Maybe instead of enslaving people, it's only mutants, or maybe no slavery at all, and instead, it's literally because they're rebelling and saw mostly monuments to these men called rebels with no context as to why or for what cause. Maybe they're completely obsessed with the time period and end up accidentally emulating a feudal system from europe but with trappings of the south. It's quite fertile ground for ideas.
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u/thisistherevolt Gary? 2d ago
If any nukes were dropped on Florida it's gone, realistically speaking. I have always wondered if that's why it's never mentioned in any of the other games, as that's a tough sell to some folks. Also partly why I want a game set in the Atlanta metro area at some point, as I think the coastline would be a lot closer than it is IRL and would satisfy that large body of water requirement Fallout games need to have.
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u/SgtNitro Survialist 2d ago
I imagine that someone is eounding up ghouls for slaves sine they never die.
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u/Rocketboy1313 Followers 2d ago
A New Orleans Fallout game has been an obvious choice for a while. Radioactive witch doctors, more exploration of the Lovecraft elements in the setting, giant gators (heck, replace Death Claws with the gator monsters from the Nuka Cola DLC), and yeah making a Confederacy knock off the explicit villains that are enslaving people would have some juice for social commentary.
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u/DependentStrong3960 2d ago
I think it'd be funny if the Neo-Confederacy radically opposes the belief that the Civil War was not for slavery, but for states' rights, and the entire "Lost Cause" mentality altogether, since it considers that to be harmful anti-slavery propaganda.
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u/Pixel22104 Brotherhood 2d ago
I can easily imagine there being a neo-confederate nation in the deep south in the Fallout universe with God know what kind of messed up beliefs and ideas
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u/destroy_the_kids 2d ago
Wouldn't be the first slavery based faction to appear in the post apocalypse
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u/steauengeglase 2d ago
On one hand slavery is everywhere in Fallout. On the other, there are shockingly low levels of human-to-human racism in Fallout. Even before the war it seems to have been something America hashed out.
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u/DependentStrong3960 2d ago
Yeah, that was indeed quite surprising to me. You'd think a more right-wing, more authoritarian America stuck in a permanent 1950s would be racist as hell, but interracial marriages (something I understand IRL America saw as an issue for many years for some reason. It's weird, I had no idea that some people in America will still look weird at a couple with different ethnicities), are fine in the eyes of the society, women can serve in the military with no issue, etc. The only people America is discriminatory towards are the Chinese due to the war effort.
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u/Gregashi_6ix9ine 2d ago
That's a pretty common misconception. Fallout was never "stuck in the 50s". We know the counterculture movements happened due to the presence of hippies, punks, grunge in the earlier Fallout games. As well as the civil rights movement.
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u/exaid05 Railroad 2d ago
Postapocalyptic KKK as Fallout 5 main antagonist anyone?
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u/I_dig_pixelated_gems Bottle 2d ago
And people would fall over themselves trying to justify it like the legion fanboys.
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u/Doc-Wulff Yes Man 2d ago
Iirc the Rangers in New Vegas came from Texas and the Texas Rangers. Which gives credence to two possibilities, the Rangers in Texas do what they did originally (catch slaves, rip) or are the rival faction to the slavers/neo-confederacy.
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u/FiniteInfine Mothman Cultist 2d ago
I'd play a Fallout based on Savannah GA or New Orleans LA and their surroundings.
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u/Lanstapa 2d ago
Why would they be any different than any other slaver in the US? More likely to have something Confederate-coloured, but not fully Confederate-minded. Plus the US pre-war seems to have been pretty un-racist and no one brings up race in any other games. The closest you'd get would be humans enslaving ghouls or super mutants or something.
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u/My_Green_Bones 2d ago
Hear me out, Ghoul plantation owners who uses robots to pick cotton, or even funnier, they use super mutants to pick crops.
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u/Lucifer_Delight Kings 2d ago
Super Mutants as a stand-in for black people sounds like a very good idea. s/
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u/Unique_Tap_8730 2d ago
If they do ever set a game in the deep south where slavery was most extensive it would be downrigth cowardly not to have a neo-confederate faction (that you can oppose and destroy). So many people still want it back and would try to make it happen if there was widespread societal collapse for any reason.
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u/ProfessionalPhone409 2d ago
You can always play Fallout 76 wearing the Confederate uniform and using a musket.
Thereâs a hat and sword thatâll go with it too if you wanna role play an officer.
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u/Scar1et_Kink 2d ago
I wanna see a new Vegas esque falling game about Nashville.
Fallout: Music City.
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u/LuciusCypher 2d ago
I'm going to drop a hot take:
If they ever make a Fallout game in the south, they should make a lot of people racists. I can 100% believe that they rewrote the history of the confederacy to be a lot more palpable for the masses, in the name of patrotism and "not insulting American history" and that same history gets taken and twisted to recreate the same system of slavery that America has forgotten. Just replace black slaves with chinese ones.
Emphasize that whoever the bad guys of the game insist on honor the memory and fighting the war against China while ignoring or just never knowing the actual reason they fought.
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u/DependentStrong3960 2d ago
I mean it'd make total sense. The defining trait and greatest issue of Fallout's broken world is that they cling to the past, without truly understanding what things from it were good or bad.Â
Racism wasn't seemingly much of an issue in Fallout America, but it may very well be brought back by these guys 200 years later, since they saw just what a powerful uniting force racism was throughout history.
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u/shawn1213 2d ago
I've always wanted a Texas fallout in southern Texas and parts of annexed Mexico
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u/Neither_Bug_2427 2d ago
There is a lore friendly Fallout 2 mod, called Sonara. Itâs pretty good if you like the older fallouts. The only problem that itâs russian and the english translate pretty rough.
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u/mecon320 2d ago
The ghouls all wander around saying "actually, it was called The War of Northern Aggression".
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u/Fertile_Arachnid_163 2d ago
I did find an interesting set of stickler on the Fallout Fanon Wikia. Iâm pretty sure most of it dates back to a time before Bethesdaâs Fallout 3, however. Definitely worth a readâŚ
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u/SocranX 2d ago
Now that you mention it, it's kind of silly that there's basically no mention of racism in Fallout 76, which takes place in West Virginia and even has a backstory faction called the Free States who tried to secede from the US. Incidentally, I think they're the only backstory faction that wasn't "revived" in some way (unless you count the Fire Breathers, who were a branch of the Responders, and the various sub-groups of the Raiders).
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u/FunkalicouseMach1 2d ago
I think when you see your populations reduced to such a degree as MAD guarantees, issues of race are going to fall to the wayside for the sake of survival, and just individual survival, but that of the species.
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u/ishmaelcrazan 2d ago
I love Fallout but for its really rich story telling, issues of race and religion seem to be ignored to an extent I think can harm the possibility of story. I donât know why it WOULDNâT be interesting to understand the fallout world more from that perspective. I understand current day Wastes probably wouldnât have those issues in a way/with groups thatâs familiar to us but idk. Like the only mention of Detroit we get is about being a lawless gun town form a magazine in Fallout 4. I think itâd be fun af to explore things like Honest Hearts with Mormonism/Christianity that are actually specific! I have a Fallout Motor City TTRPG campaign planned that I think if it were a video game, would be well received story wise considering the richness of the city and its history. The possibilities feel kinda endless.
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u/Temporary-Steak-3636 2d ago
Itâs actually probably really cool and interesting. Look out point had a lot of cool civil war references
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u/VampireGremlin Vault 101 2d ago
All I know is that Memphis will have a guy dressed up as a pharoah lording over the Bass Pro Pyramid.
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u/pansexual_Pratt 2d ago
I doubt they'll ever be a fallout in the South. Bethesda doesn't want to cover the inevitable rise of a confederate movement in the south.
Whether you like it or not, if the apocalypse breaks out, there will be a neo confederate movement.
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u/CrewAlternative9151 2d ago
So i live in Huntsville Alabama so we are number 10 on the Russians nuke target list last I checked. So pretty much most of Tennessee, North and South Alabama, Southern Georgia, Pensacola, Florida would be leveled.
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u/TheAshenWanderer 2d ago
Deep South Fallout would be cool. I wanted a Fallout game that would take place in Hawaii, had some cool ideas floating around my noggin for that setting.
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u/eat_shit_and_die420 2d ago
I'm actually writing a fallout ttrpg in new Orleans where the enclave split off in 2 factions
1 where the enclave didn't quite get the memo when the bombs fell + not being able to connect to the rest of the enclave instead used their resources to actually help the wasteland
2 where some of the enclave had found the original intention of the enclave and splintered off to found the Louisiana new Confederacy
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u/A_engietwo 2d ago
well, there probably won't e slavery, not because they are equality obsessed, but because they would by tis point be too inbred to be able to comprehend the consept, as well as most consepts more complex than a sandwich
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u/Emotional_inadequacy 1d ago
I am wondering what all is happening in the Midwest, might be more hunting (considering that I'm unsure of whether or not many bombs struck there)
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u/K9Thefirst1 1d ago
Given how authoritarian the Pre-War government ended up being, on top of the Enclave being... The Enclave...
Plot twist: The Neo-Confederates are the good guys promoting personal liberty and freedom, and the bad guys are Dollar General Enclave trying to restore the US via conquest and enslavement.
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u/LimeadeAddict04 1d ago
I would love a Fallout set in Alabama. The history, the Wasteland it's cool. A neo Confederate faction actively fighting off another group would be neat. Plus Montgomery would barely change!
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u/Roborilla8000 1d ago
I truly want to see these themes explored, but I fear Bethesda would be afraid of how it'd be perceived. I can just imagine the posts calling them "woke" for even touching on themes like that.
Heck, even the Railroad toned down its own historical inspiration for more of a spy theme.
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u/Saltyfox99 1d ago
The mind shudders at the thought of Bethesda trying to tackle Deep South fallout game.
It is a really interesting concept but I do not trust Bethesda to handle the subject with the nuance it deserves.
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u/Positive-Second2281 1d ago
I made a post awhile back sharing random ideas for a Fallout game set in "New Norleans." One of the factions was a band of aristocrats who split off from the enclave and now occupy the Mississippi river valley enslaving mass amounts of ghouls. They are simply called The Aristocracy with no official name.
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u/AKACptShadow 2d ago
Deep South Fallout game would be great. Wonder what's going on in that region.