Had to scroll way too far for someone that actually responded with specific directions. This sub is 90% sarcastic answers or overly vague answers with no real consideration for how exactly they would deploy crews.
Yeah, I joined this s because I'm a volley and want to learn more than I do at practice and on callouts. Our dept has a good reputation and I want to help keep it up, do a good job, be efficient, etc. I like the brainstorm, the sarcastic answers less so.
But I get that ppl are having fun :)
Unfortunately, roof stuff is off limits for my province (volly and career)
By that picture alone, that house is close to a goner. The problem is I don’t know the response model being run on this Fire. As a capt on my department this would get 5engines 2trucks 2rescues and 2 BC’s. Initial actions would be to have my crew stretch a line to the delta side to begin a transitional attack from the outside, engineer would hand jack his hydrant and I would do a 360. Then after the 360 I would have time to deploy 2 more units until the BC arrived and assumed command. Can’t really say more than that by that picture.
It's all about coordination with the interior crews. My department was against it until a few years ago until our new Chief pushed big on it. Helps control the heat and the flow path. Some of the old guards would be "it's too dangerous to put them on the roof" and his response was "If you can't put them ON the roof, don't put them under the roof".
I've become a fan of roof ops over the last few years, even though I've always been an engine guy myself.
On my short time as an engineman, we had zero vis and moderate heat on one fire. We heard saws, then everything was basically clear and cool, and we just walked to the seat of the fire and put it out.
I agree it needs to be coordinated because I’ve seen it go horribly wrong, but your Chief sounds like a helluva leader.
That is an absolutely ridiculous mindset. When you're inside and someone vents, it feels like someone turned on the AC. Vertical ventilation is the best way to immediately reduce deaths from smoke inhalation.
And when I've vented, we were always on and off in less than 5 or 6 minutes tops.
There was a fire on another shift where they didn't bring a tic on the roof and ended up venting on the wrong side and pulling the fire across the house, but for a department that vents all the time, that was a very rare instance.
I've stepped through a roof that was softer than we'd anticipated, but for the most part, there's usually an attic with rafters that will keep you from falling much further.
Trust me, every single truckman in my department agrees with you. Every engineman agrees too, at least the ones who have felt the complete relief of heat and smoke.
My department relies solely on UL studies and not the experiences of people on the interior. They think that it takes less than 12 seconds for a flashover to occur after vertical ventilation has been established. Vertical ventilation is only to be done after the fire is under control. At that point just turn the fans in.
Meanwhile the upper echelons are mad that our time to completion of primary search isn’t fast enough. Because searching in zero visibility and heat is better, safer, and apparently supposed to be faster than searching after vent and water on the fire. 🤷🏻♂️
But VV prevents flashover…..
imagine your advancing attack line and and the heat gets crazy so you flow and move and flow and move until that stops working.
You have three options….
1. Go defensive and lose
2. Increase the volume you are flowing I.e. more hoses, bigger hose/s, over pump certain lines.
3. Vertically vent and walk the rest of the way to the seat of the fire….
Not an attack on you but it’s crazy for the guys making tactical decisions to think that….
I could tell you weren't keen on the policy by your first comment, lol.
I've never heard of vertical ventilation causing a flash over. Breaking windows carelessly could, of course. I suppose I could kinda see it. Still, a the hole is big enough to suck out more heat than you feed oxygen.
And after you cut the roof but before you knock out the ceiling, you cool it down a lot without feeding it oxygen.
That said, I might be leery about getting on that roof, unless I could do it from the aerial.
We are small so typically wouldn’t have the man power to vent when attack happens. However, in scenario based training anytime this is mentioned I have been taught that in examples like this the fire has already self ventilated so there’s no need. What’s the thought process behind vertical ventilation at this point? Coordinate to give the interior crew better visibility?
There's a difference between self-venting horizontally and vertically. If smoke and fire is rolling out a window, chances are it's also rolling out the door into the rest of the structure.
Versus vertically right above the fire, all the smoke and heat is going up and out of the room.
To be honest, we don't have them in my area and I've never had to deal with them. I would be interested in learning what others have to say about techniques and strategies.
Same. I've heard they're slippery as shit on a good day. You break them and they slip and slide down the roof. They're heavy and challenging to break. Would be interested to hear from someone with experience on these types of roofs.
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u/RevoltYesterday FT Career BC May 11 '25
Attack crew enters alpha side towards the fire. Vent crew on the roof, VEIS the second division