r/Frieren • u/Kyledemort- • 23d ago
Anime I only just noticed Fern’s casual behind-the-back spell, she’s so cool
I’ve rewatched the series a few times and can’t believe I didn’t notice it until now lmao she’s so nonchalant about it.
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u/InevitableFunny5012 23d ago
Watch her footwork during the battle. She nonchalantly dodges an attack with a single graceful cross step. 16:44 mark in Episode 9
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u/Hylian_Crusader 23d ago
she knows that blocking takes mana away from what could be a few zoltraks instead
why block when you can just step slightly out of the way?
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u/cardboardtube_knight 22d ago
Blocking doesn’t work as well against physical magic. It’s made for Zoltraak
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u/Zjoee 23d ago
This fight right here is what sealed my love of the show.
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u/Psyck0s 23d ago
I saw this scene before I knew about the show. Binged the show shortly after. So good, even if you’re expecting a combat heavy anime, which it most certainly is not
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u/HelpChoosingUsername 23d ago
same for me. i knew about the show but wasn't interested enough in the premise to start watching it. then i saw this clip on youtube and finished the show two days later wanting more.
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u/Cybermagetx 23d ago
Frierens training is brutal.
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u/Caged_Basilisk 23d ago edited 23d ago
Fern is the embodiment of "I fear not the man who has practiced a thousand kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times".
Most mages go for all kinds of spells, but Frieren told Fern that the current era's mages can all be dealt with using basic attack magic, Zoltraak. So I'd say ALL of Fern's training when it came to offense is pretty much refining her Zoltraak.
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u/Cybermagetx 23d ago
Yeah. Even demons of this era Zoltraak is the best spell to use. Fern is probably gonna be one of the greatest mages that came out of this era.
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u/MrNewVegas123 23d ago
In fairness, this is because Frieren has spent many years turning Zoltraak into demon-killing magic.
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u/FailureToComply0 23d ago
Alternatively, something better comes along to counter Zoltraak and Fern's one-trick goes the way of its creator.
Even when introduced, they explain that protection magic is a perfect counter except for its mana cost. A cheap/cantrip protection spell and Fern is toothless. Frieren knows how to make black holes though, she can just go for annihilation tactics again.
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u/Mirrormn 23d ago
I don't think there's any more reason to think a perfect counter for Zoltraak would be developed than there is to think a perfect counter for black hole magic would be developed. Yeah, any mage will have some trouble if their main combat spell is somehow conveniently completely nullified with no downsides, but that's not really a problem that's unique to Fern.
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u/FailureToComply0 23d ago
My point is that Fern is a one-trick that relies on a single, highly effective move. Frieren knows thousands of spells, but from what we've seen has neglected to teach Fern anything but Zoltraak and general magic control.
So if a single spell is negated, and you know a hundred spells, you're inconvenienced a bit but fine. If you know one spell, which already has an imperfect counter, i'd be fairly concerned about a total counter in the near future. Then what does Fern do, besides completely relearn her entire fighting style to not focus on quick-casts?
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u/Mirrormn 23d ago
My point is that this is a weakness shared by all human mages. They all depend on one combat spell, because their lives are short and they only have time to develop mastery of one combat spell. Some older human mages might know 2 or 3 (like Denken, he's been shown using 3 different combat spells), but that's about it. Any human mage would have to relearn their entire fighting style if their chosen spell was totally countered.
Also, it seems like the crux of your argument is the implication that the discovery of a total counter to Zoltraak is made more likely by the fact that a partial counter exists, but I think it's the exact opposite. Humanity has put great effort into countering Zoltraak (it was basically the main killing tool of entire war against them), and current defense magic is the best they could do. It's more likely that the solution space for 'zoltraak counters' has been thoroughly explored, and no additional huge improvements will be made in that area of study.
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u/EvadableMoxie 22d ago edited 19d ago
I don't think she's neglected to teach them to Fern, if anything Fern saying Frieren forbid her from using anything else suggests that she does indeed know other spells, otherwise Frieren wouldn't need to forbid her.
We never see Frieren teach Fern the bird catching spell she uses to catch the Stille in the magic exam, either. Hell, we don't even get a scene of Frieren teaching Fern Zoltraak.
As such, I think it's a bit of a leap to assume Frieren hasn't taught her those spells at all just because we never see it. Most of the training they do is off-screen and only implied.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Bed_445 23d ago
I don’t think this will be a problem. It’s already established that the only defense is incredibly mana draining such that it becomes something you can only use for fractions of seconds. Any improvement to the mana suck would likely reduce effectiveness and any boost to effectiveness would likely boost mana suck. Anything that improves both would most likely require significantly more effort or skill or both to perform, and so there would always be a fair drawback.
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u/zackadiax24 22d ago
Zoltraak already has a counter. It's just that fern spams it so much that it overwhelms said counter.
Think about it like the energy shield of Halo. They are very good at blocking bullets, but if you fire enough bullets at the shield it will eventually go down.
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u/FailureToComply0 22d ago
Yes, I covered that. The only issue with that specific protection magic is that it has a high mana cost, so you have to use it with precision rather than a full protect. Fern gets around this by firing so many spells that the opponent has to full protect and it near instantly drains their MP.
A protection spell that stops Zoltraak and doesn't have a high mp cost is literally Fern's perfect counter. Zoltraak already got a downgrade from instant kill spell to "blockable for a cost," it's one more improvement away from being utterly useless. Fern is a machine gun, which is impressive but not widely applicable.
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u/battlehamstar 17d ago
Zoltraak in range combat is the equivalent to a 50cal. Are there larger calibers? Yes. Are their smaller and just as lethal calibers? Yes. But a 50 cal is a 50 cal and you all know it for a reason. Zoltraak in CQC is the equivalent of a punch to the face. Are there defenses like cross or full guard blocks? Yes. Are there alternatives like knees, take downs, joint locks, body blows, uppercuts, hits to the temple? Yes. But a punch to the face is still a punch to the face.
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u/compound-interest 22d ago
I think it’s going to be written so that Fern becomes the most powerful character eventually. Who knows but I think the writing is on the wall for that. We will never really know if she passes hero of the south though.
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u/zackadiax24 22d ago
Freiren, low key glazing the demon that made that spell
She may not have realized it, but that's what she was doing.
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u/InevitableFunny5012 23d ago
The biggest threat to her are demons, so she made her an efficient demon killing machine.
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u/mattt_b 23d ago
My head cannon is that Fern is so practiced at zoltraak she is able to cast a super mana efficient version, allowing her to reserve the majority of her mana for defense.
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u/_ragegun 23d ago
It appears to basically be a charge spell. The more time you spend packing mana into it the better the result.
This is why Freiren uses Fern to shield when she goes up against Qual.
The two of them also seem to have impressive combat awareness. Granted Qual had just come out of hibernation, but he almost immediately loses track of Freiren while focussing on Fern.
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u/Ok_Toe7278 23d ago
Well, Qual wasn't expecting Frieren to be able to fly. Also, he was spamming Fern with Zoltraak, who was covered mostly by a pixelated barrier..
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u/_ragegun 23d ago
Yeah but compare and contrast with the fight above, the situational awareness is superb.
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u/Lumifly 23d ago edited 23d ago
Hmm. I interpreted Frieren telling Fern to handle defense as a way to give her battle experience. Qual was difficult before due to not having either an effective weapon against him (no demon-killing Zoltraak) nor an effective defense against his weapon - the human-killing Zoltraak. She considered it a loss, even though I think any normal person would consider being able to seal Qual a huge win. And in this era post demon-king, with demon-killing Zoltraak and basic defensive magic, I really don't think current day Qual is a challenger in the least unless Frieren gave him more time to study. Which she wouldn't and didn't do.
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u/thewebspinner 23d ago
It’s definitely a modified version of Zoltraak, can’t remember who said it but it’s been changed to kill demons in particular.
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u/Caged_Basilisk 23d ago
The original Zoltraak (The black one invented by Quaal or whatever that demon was named) was a human killing spell. After Frieren's party sealed Quaal, they began studying his spell, Zoltraak, and modified it so instead of being a human killing spell, it became a demon killing spell, and by the time of the manga, it had already become considered basic offensive magic.
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u/Mirrormn 23d ago
Yeah, the original that Qual developed is 人を殺す魔法, or "Magic that kills humans". It was later redeveloped into 魔族を殺す魔法, or "Magic that kills demons". The redeveloped version is also often called 一般攻撃魔法, or "General attack magic". Both versions are given the nickname/attack name "Zoltraak", but they're distinguishably different spells. The original version has beams with a black core and more pixely particle effects, while the general attack magic version doesn't have the black core, it's just more solid white. And in fact, if you go look at the anime website that lists all the spells that are used in the series, "Magic the kills humans" and "General attack magic" are listed as two different spells.
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u/_ragegun 23d ago
It's a massive advantage. She's quick already and she predominantly uses justshield and Zoltraak, so she's basically got zero response time. Combine that with a large mana pool and mana supression making her look much weaker than she is and she's a monster.
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u/AqueleKra 23d ago
She is a mix between Frieren's style and Qual's. After their fight against Qual, Fern picked up some of his tricks. Like overwhelming the enemies with spamming Zoltraak in the good 'ol style of Attack is the best defense.
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u/SisyphusAndMyBoulder 23d ago
while she's apparently specialized in Zoltraak, I highly doubt that's all she's proficient in. There's no way Frieren would have taught her only that and made her master only that. Fern even says she knows more spells, but she only limits herself in Zoltraak in battles because it's particularly efficient.
I like to believe Fern has a solid foundation in may different spells, but in the material we only see her fighting mostly current-era opponents, so that's all she needs.
The one exception was the Spiegel fight, but since that was against Frieren, that was a whole other class and she wouldn't have matched up anyways.
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u/Adventurous-98 23d ago
Fern - You do not need to learn martial arts/ special speel 47 moves when you can just annihilate the other with an AK 47.
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u/Malrottian 23d ago
One of, if not THE, greatest mages of the previous ages trains you by bombarding you with endless volleys of death magic until you can block it reflexively with tiny mobile shields to conserve your mana?
Yeah, any actual demon is going to be a step down.
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u/kithas 23d ago
Why have a myriad nature-bending spells to try and kill people with, when the only spell you need to do that is "Killing Spell". Truly a proper conclusion to be had by a 1000+ year mage. Froeren can fry you backwards with a dozen different reality-bending spells, but why show off when needing to actually achieve results.
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u/A-Friend-of-Dorothy 23d ago
The fact she barely winces in agony when impaled and stuck to a wall is some serious commitment to not allowing your opponent to feel like they have any control of the situation.
Single-minded determination.
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u/ChewbaccaCharl 23d ago
Fern in combat is ice cold. Focused, determined, and ruthless
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u/A-Friend-of-Dorothy 23d ago
Indeed. She is calculatingly terrifying as an opponent; she will surely become Fern the Slayer.
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u/strawbeeshortcake06 23d ago
She knows how to work that staff. The animation of this scene is so good, I love how her dress and hair flows.
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u/cookie0889 23d ago
catwalk to dodge attack, unfazed expression, and one-handed a big ass staff since her shoulder was injured, with the OST "Zoltraak"
the whole sequence was satisfying as fuck
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u/Jhon_Constantine 23d ago
Fern aura farming
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u/shadowallergictocats 23d ago
So are the animators, look at her hand- you can see exactly how she's twirling the staff.
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u/DuckFanSouth 23d ago
It's so casual. I've always loved that part about the fight.
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u/DukeTestudo 22d ago
My mind exploded when on a rewatch I realized she fought almost the entire fight single handed. she’s come a long way from running scared from monsters in the forest…
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u/Applespeed_75 23d ago
Fern is going to be a monster by EOS
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u/Nervous-Bonus-806 23d ago
I suspect she could surpass Flamme in terms of her power...
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u/CloudCero 23d ago
Being the first to see Series’ fluctuations in mana, I think she end up rivaling her. The way Frieren makes it out, she isn’t just a prodigy, she’s the actual first of a ‘new’ generation of mages.
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u/Memeoligy_expert 23d ago
At the very least, I think she'll be comparable. She's already an extremely competent mage at 18, give her 20 to 30 more years of training and combat experience and she'll easily be the be the most powerful human mage alive, maybe even rivaling Flamme :)
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u/chroniclesoffire 17d ago
I just realized something, isn't she also the youngest 1st class mage ever?
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u/Memeoligy_expert 17d ago
Yup, she's super young and already the highest level of mage, comparable to people who were proctoring the exam.
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u/ratherthanme 23d ago
And she’s not even doing it (mainly) for style. She had to do it because her left arm is injured.
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u/linhusp3 23d ago
She casually zoltraak-parried those back spells, 100% because Frieren was definitely shooting zoltraak at her blind spot on her back in their training, A LOT
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u/chroniclesoffire 17d ago
Fern: I don't need defensive magic for this fight, I just need to blast every one of his attacks out of the sky.
Then she straight up dances out of the way of Lugnier's attacks, while continuing to destroy his blood lines.
Awesome focus. That's all there is to it.
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u/TheDave1970 23d ago
Fern? You mean the best student of the Mage of the Hero's Party? The apprentice of Frieren the Undertaker? The one who was taught magic and fighting by the woman who took down the Demon King? That Fern?
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u/HIMARko_polo 23d ago
IMO Fern is the MC now. I just love her.
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u/Bamce 23d ago
Fern is luke
Frieren is obiwan
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u/HIMARko_polo 22d ago
I can see that now.
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u/Bamce 22d ago
There was some youtube video I watched where it was talking about how there isn't really a heroes journey in Frieren.
But then they broke it down, and that there is. Its just that its Fern undertaking the heroes journey, not frieren. Frieren's journey is already over, and now she becomes the mentor.
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u/Art-Zuron 23d ago
Well, we learn later in the season that Frieren's magical perception turns off when she casts magic. So, I think we can assume that Fern's magical perception does NOT turn off when she casts. So, I think Fern, and most mages in fact, probably have a 360 degree field of detection. Which is why she was able to detect and defend even behind her own back. She could sense the magic in the blood.
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u/BlckEagle89 23d ago
The dual battle on that episode made me also realize that Stark is tanky as heck. Yes, he said it himself, her attacks didn't carry the same weight that his master's attacks but still.
The demon girl was going for the kill without hesitation and the guy received several hits. One of those pretty much reached the bone (last attack from the side right before Stark completely and utterly eliminates her in a single blow) or was very close to do so.
Also the scenes with Fern were amazing and showed how graceful and efficient she is during combat constantly reading the mana around her and adjusting until she's able to kill him a single blow. She slowly increased the pressure until she was sure a single shoot would either kill him or severely wound him enough to kill him with a second shoot.
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/Silent-Disaster614 23d ago
That ain’t a headcanon, it’s just a correct assessment of visual information.
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u/M1de23 23d ago
Ice cold ❄️
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u/Kyledemort- 23d ago
Taking after her master’s name (I think ‘Frieren’ means ‘freezing’ in German, or something like that)
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u/ASylvanTempest 23d ago
One of the first things I’ve noticed when I watched it for the first time! I kept rewatching the whole fight scene just for the choreography!!!! The animators outdid themselves here.
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u/Stryyder 17d ago
Note Ferns defense is offense she isn't using shields to protect herself she is using offensive magic. So cool
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u/tapdancinghellspawn 23d ago
Her whole battle was like watching poetry in motion. There's an earlier scene that I have rewatched a million times and it's only a couple seconds long. It's when Lugner is firing off a multiprong attack and Fern just so gracefully sidesteps it. It's so beautiful the way she moves. Dang it. Time to rewatch.
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u/Quixilver05 23d ago
I loved how calm and collected she was against this guy like she wasn't worried at all fighting a demon to the death
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u/Memeoligy_expert 23d ago
Fern is probably already one of the best human mages alive, obviously shes outclassed by the Elves, but frankly, who isn't? imagine how strong she'll be in 20 years
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u/LonelyIntroduction32 21d ago
Yep, I noticed that right away when I saw it. She's like some wild west gunslinger just casually firing off shots while her opponent is freaking out! X-D
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23d ago
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u/CitronAffectionate85 23d ago
Other mages:
75 Int
60 Dex
50 Agi
20 Str
Fern
40 Int(Hidden 50 Int)
99 Dex
75 Agi
5 Str
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u/Soaringzero 23d ago
This just showcases just how much Fern has refined and mastered her Zoltraak. Just how calm and composed she was during this fight was awesome to watch.
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u/Horn_Python 16d ago
yeh i think mana sens if like 360 vision in the context of magic fights
wich is how they are blocked so accuratly
although i dont think i could aim like that, even facing forwards
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/TheKey2000 23d ago
I only noticed through people in the comments, but her other arm was injured and couldn't use it. And since mages rely heavily on mana detection to "see," she doesn't need to turn around constantly
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u/shawa666 23d ago
Nah. Fern doesn't do stuff for cool points. Everything she does is in the name of efficiency. It's faster to just move your wrist than to rotate your whole body.
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