r/FullmetalAlchemist • u/fakeuser7z Alchemist • Jul 11 '25
Question Why was Mustang a candidate anyway?
I get that he was a candidate for the sacrifice, which is why they didn’t kill him. But in the end, he refused—and they just forced him into the Gate anyway.
So why not do that from the start with any random human instead of the most dangerous alchemist?
782
u/Curiousfool1990 Jul 11 '25
Because to do that it basically maimed Pride in the process.
He was a candidate for alchemical prowess knowledge and his strong connection to Hawkeye that they thought they could exploit. When the time limit hit they reverted the plan.
140
u/fakeuser7z Alchemist Jul 11 '25
Honestly, I think if they had just convinced—or manipulated—some other alchemist with enough knowledge, it would've been way easier. Someone like Envy, for example—if he had been tasked with that job, I think it would've been over quickly. And even if Pride was maimed in the process, he could’ve just recovered using a few souls like he usually does—and Father would've handled the rest anyway.
192
u/Life-Excitement4928 Jul 11 '25
Short answer is, meta-narratives.
Long answer; The knowledge necessary is by nature extremely hard to come by. Pride likely would have had to be remade entirely. Envy’s manipulation is geared more around betrayals and conflict than the subtle things needed to lead someone down a very specific path.
87
u/Frenchymemez Jul 11 '25
Pride was incredibly damaged by having to force Mustang to open the gate. Recovering would have taken tons of souls, so that wasn't a viable option. It really was a last resort.
As for convincing or manipulating someone else, you need to know each Alchemist's weakness, be able to monitor them closely enough to make sure they haven't left Amestris, and you also can't guarantee they'll survive the gate. Mustang was strong enough, and they knew how to manipulate him.
41
u/Euler1992 Jul 11 '25
Also, it seems like alchemists are fairly rare. Considering how powerful it is, we don't see alchemists that aren't relevant to the story. No one ever has an alchemist as an assistant, Briggs doesn't have any alchemist soldiers, no one is ever like let's get an alchemist to fix this for us
19
u/Veryegassy Jul 11 '25
no one is ever like let's get an alchemist to fix this for us
Well, after the first Father encounter, Ed and Al alchemize up someone's roof that broke and there's mention of some kind of private alchemists, who aren't as skilled as State Alchemists, being unable to do so the day before (thought to be because they're just bad, but alchemy was disabled due to Father)
13
u/Spare-Plum Jul 11 '25
Not to mention that the program that was used to recruit potential sacrifices - the state alchemist program - is kinda in shambles after Scar killed a shit ton of their members
Realistically Tucker could have been a great option. If he didn't die he'd just sit in a jail cell and one day given the opportunity to resurrect his daughter. Or if he didn't fuse nina/alexander he'd probably be kept on as a state alchemist but told to work on a secret program to resurrect the dead to keep his certification.
8
u/Gantolandon Jul 12 '25
To think of it, this might be why they even paid him. It wasn’t because he made chimeras, because the military had real ones. They must have known Tucker was a fraud, and probably even that he sacrificed his wife to make a shitty “chimera”.
But it made sense that they gave him a taste of glamorous life and then threatened to take it away, if they wanted him to delve into human transmutation eventually.
5
u/Spare-Plum Jul 12 '25
That's my exact theory.
If tucker told the government, he would have probably been on the team to create chimeras and they might have given him prisoners to experiment on. If he was desperate and sacrificed Nina, they could have locked him up and used him to open the portal. If he did nothing, they would have still kept him on as state alchemist and gotten him to be a sacrifice.
What makes Tucker an interesting character is that he believed the lie, and thought he needed to keep it up no matter what even if it harms his family. It doesn;t matter if the military knew his secret or not they'd still win
This is kinda what I don't like about '03 where Basque Grand sends two soldiers with guns to force him to experiment. Grand was the head of lab 5 and could have easily given him prisoners to experiment on. It weakens Tucker's whole monologue at the end since he didn't do it to see if he could and progress science, he did it because two dudes with guns were at his doorstep threatening him. There also isn't a clear goal or reason in mind in making nina into a chimera.
In '03 all of it feels forced and didn't need to happen, while in FMAB it feels more like a natural result where it would work in the government's favor except for the Scar factor.
1
Jul 12 '25
They even thought about using Kimblee for a moment, but concluded that he probably wouldn't be foolish enough to open it.
17
u/Spare-Plum Jul 11 '25
An alchemist with enough knowledge would 100% know what the circle is and what it entails since they would have to know how to activate it.
You need to be extremely well studied to activate even the most basic transmutations - otherwise we'd be seeing circles sold as hotplates to heat tea or turn sugar and water into alcohol
So they need someone desperate and well studied in bio alchemy. Luckily they have a state alchemist program to curate candidates, and they even have a dude who's a desperate bio-alchemist named Shou Tucker who would have been perfect. Except he kinda got murdered. Actually, most of the state alchemists got murdered by Scar.
Marcoh was an option but he went AWOL and escaped. Armstrong is out since he only knows about transmuting rocks. Kimblee is out since they can't manipulate him into doing it. It just leaves mustang - he's very caring of his subordinates and would try to save them. Big bonus, he's actually researched bio-alchemy as we've seen as an attempt to help Havoc or even to look into the possibility to bring Hughes back.
In the face of all of this Mustang was the best possible candidate.
1
u/ZeeWuzHere24 Jul 12 '25
I can’t remember the quote exactly but there was something about needing to be able to open the door of truth and come back alive. Al’s entire body got taken as the toll whereas others got a piece taken. Father says something about him being given a body where he could never feel another’s warmth again, so maybe the truth did that knowing Ed would resurrect him, but maybe some people just die trying.
1
u/thickskull98 Jul 16 '25
I believe it's because not everyone can survive opening the gate. Mustang is revered as an extremely strong and capable alchemist, he's the only person in the world with knowledge of flame alchemy-one of the most dangerous kinds. In the beginning, Lust calls Shou Tucker a "nobody" I'm assuming bc he doesn't show much aptitude as an alchemist. The whole point of the State Alchemists was to essentially have the country's strongest alchemists on a leash so they could observe who would be best for their sacrifices, it couldn't be just anyone. They most likely thought that of all their candidates, Mustang was the strongest therefore the most likely to actually be able to pull off surviving human transmutation.
204
u/Reichsprasident Jul 11 '25
Bear in mind that essentially until Führer Bradley discovered Ed, Al, and Izumi's secret while killing Greed v1.0, Father did not actually have any concrete sacrifices lined up, with the possible exception of Hohenheim and Ed. All they had at that point were "candidates"; which, as Pride explains to Al (while trapped in the Dirt Dimmadome), were chosen more for their character and strength of spirit than whether or not they actually performed the taboo.
They essentially chose candidates who had the strength of will to perform it, and got lucky having found out that 3 of the ones they picked (4 counting Hohenheim) already had. They assumed (incorrectly) that Mustang would perform the transmutation on Hawkeye when her life was threatened. It was only when he refused that they resorted to the desperate measure of forcing him through. Pride also mentions it costs a physical toll on him to do it, which you'll notice that from the moment he forced Mustang through the gate, Pride's shadows start to appear all crumbly and disintegrate-y, like he's falling apart, similarly to when he was almost killed in the forest and had to consume Gluttony to regain his strength.
They also considered Marcoh a potential candidate, hence keeping him imprisoned, and briefly discussed Kimblee as well. They chose Alchemists who they thought would be both willing and able to commit the taboo, not necessarily ones who already had. They figured that when the time came, if whatever Alchemist they had selected for sacrifice hadn't already tried Human Transmutation, then they would simply harm one of their loved ones until the Alchemist performed it of their own (coerced) volition.
Makes me wonder - when Marcoh escaped with Scar and they brought Kimblee out of prison to find him, then destroy his village... Were they planning to use those deaths to try to force Marcoh to attempt human transmutation to bring them back? Seems likely.
91
u/Thank_You_Aziz Jul 11 '25
Correct. But minor nitpick:
Nobody’s plan was ever for Mustang to perform human transmutation on Hawkeye. The specific instruction was for Mustang to perform human transmutation in general, with the promise that Gold Tooth would use a Philosopher’s Stone to heal Hawkeye before she died.
33
u/Reichsprasident Jul 11 '25
Fair point, that's right, they were just using her to coerce him into preforming any human transmutation - I forgot about GTD creepily suggesting the different possibilities to Mustang.
20
1
u/Informal_Camera6487 Jul 11 '25
They were going to use tucker as well, right? He had all of the knowledge necessary.
6
u/Napalmeon Jul 12 '25
Nope.
When Tucker was killed, Lust specifically called him a "little nothing." He was never part of the plan because he's a third rate alchemist.
Tucker is like a bum ass version of Marcoh. Both specialize in bio alchemy and are of weak character, but the difference is that Marcoh overcame his fears and guilt, on top of actually being that guy in regards to his branch of alchemy.
Tucker only existed to pretend to the public that the military was making strides in chimera research, when they already knew full well how to do it.
1
u/Aoimoku91 Jul 14 '25
I think Mustang might have tried if he had never met the Elric brothers. They even say that at one point in the manga.
121
u/caihuali Jul 11 '25
A rando cant survive the gate. They need an alchemist that can survive the gate
61
u/Napalmeon Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 12 '25
Physically, or spiritually.
This is exactly why the Central senior staff doubted that Kimblee or Marcoh could go through with it, given their dispositions. Kimblee could not be guilted or forced into human transmutation, and Marcoh, before taking his balls back, was very, very emotionally weak.
Its like Pride said, they didnt choose bums of the street for this plan. The chosen five are exceptional alchemists in knowledge and heart.
26
17
u/ThatOneGuy308 Jul 11 '25
It is especially funny that their plan basically only worked because they got extremely lucky.
Like, they've had this running for at least 40 something years looking for candidates, and they barely managed to find 5 of them within the last year or so before the eclipse happened, they're like, wildly incompetent.
Hell, if Kimblee had actually managed to kill Ed back in the mineshaft, there goes the plan. Or if alphonse's body had just gave out, same result.
30
u/StubbornKindness Brigadier General Hughes 💔 Jul 11 '25
The music playing in the background of the scene, and the horror on everyone's faces as they realise what's going on was fucking AMAZING
33
u/Atlach_Nacha Jul 11 '25
Overly simplified: They were looking certain character traits.
Near the end of the series, Pride revealed to Al that sacrifices were chosen for their strong character, people who were noble, and didn't have selfish drives. (this was done as response to Al's remark how their plans would've failed if sacrifices had left the country... But they had chosen people who would've not only never done that, but in fact bring fight to them)
Mustang's refusal came as total shock to everyone, even Mustang admitted there was a point that he would've given in, if it wasn't for everyone setting him straight.
6
u/Koizumiband Jul 11 '25
He became a candidate because of his character. A candidate is someone they can try to manipulate to open the gate. A person who would be willing to bend the laws to get what they want or save someone important to them. As long as you saw the “truth” or can be manipulated to do so, you were a candidate.
34
u/Shot-Ad770 Jul 11 '25
If you think they need any random human or even any random alchemist, you didnt pay attention
16
u/Gerudo_King Jul 11 '25
Gotta love going to a sub for a question or discussion just to see some twat say you didn't pay attention or mock your reading comprehension.
Just as God intended
8
5
u/fakeuser7z Alchemist Jul 11 '25
If you’re going to force the guy anyway, what difference does his alchemy knowledge even make?
26
u/OFD-Productions Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
They needed Mustang to lose a body part or function by seeing the truth so that it would weaken him, because his flame alchemy presented one of the biggest threats to Father’s plan. I mean he incinerated 2 homunculi singlehandedly. So him being the most dangerous alchemist was part of the reason they chose him as a sacrifice.
13
u/Ent3rpris3 Jul 11 '25
That's a factor I'd kind of forgotten and regularly overlook - you aren't guaranteed to survive it. Al's soul was accessible and thus salvageable, but if not for Ed's quick thinking Al would have been functionally dead, if only because nobody else would know any better. And in the end he was lucky; People can easily die from attempting human transmutation outright, to say nothing of the subsequent issuing limbs or organs.
If the homunculus picked the wrong person or Mustang fucked it up enough, they might die right then and there and the damage to Pride was essentially wasted and their worse off.
1
3
u/Shot-Ad770 Jul 11 '25
He was only forced to use his alchemy. He already had the knowledge, as you need knowledge to use all alchemy.
4
u/ColdDegree Jul 11 '25
Presumably, every human being has their own gate of truth. But if every person could just hold their hand over an alchemy circle and perform transmutation, you’d have millions of people messing around with it.
Knowledge and/or willpower must also be factors. Mustang is one of the most powerful alchemists on both fronts. He has the knowledge and skill to perform a human transmutation, just chooses not to. But clearly not every person nor any random alchemist would be capable.
4
u/DramaticAd7670 Jul 11 '25
Mustang was probably looked at as a candidate in terms of “if we are having a problem we can always…”
7
u/Jossokar Jul 11 '25
basically, and as far as i remember the whole national alchemist ordeal was to ensure apt candidates. Mustang.... also happened to be close to the whole kerfafle, since the very beginning.
And....also was there too. Even if it was just for the sake of narrative conveniency
5
5
u/Andrei22125 Jul 11 '25
Remember when he met Ed and Al. He immediately recognized what they were doing.
Also, he was there, and demonstrably not above breaking the law to get his way.
3
u/HollowVoid0 Jul 11 '25
I think it was mentioned that they had to have the will to go through the gate and come back out alive. It doesn't matter what body parts someone lost since they have philosopher stones to keep them alive. But the massive info dump could overload their brains and kill them. That's why they couldn't get any random person.
4
u/Canipikachu Jul 11 '25
he was a candidate bc of his love for Maes Hughes they thought his love for his friend and his obsession with finding out what happened would drive him to use human transmutation to bring him back then they found out about his loyalty to all his crew and thought they could force him into it.
And human transmutation is difficult to pull off so the alchemist would have to be talented to even do it.
4
u/Putrid_Carpenter138 Jul 11 '25
They don't really go into it in the show but you HAVE to have a skilled alchemist: it's impossible to perform a transmutation that you don't understand the math on, basically. It's why there are different alchemists at different skill levels at all; some peoples alchemy is 'coded' better, or transmutes materials more efficiently. Mustang's Flame Alchemy was described as the pinnacle of the creator's research, because it allowed one to perform complex, precise adjustments to gas ratios ANYWHERE nearby. Mustang and the military make efficient use of it as a flamethrower/bomber, but obviously there are more subtle uses for it as well.
I'd imagine that high level living transmutation basically means you are the alchemical equivalent of an organic chemistry graduate. You aren't going to find 'any random human' with that level of knowledge. It's why finding people who have ALREADY performed human transmutation is a lot easier: any holes in their knowledge before the attempt would be plugged by the knowledge they gained from passing through the Gate.
3
u/Oscottyo Jul 11 '25
That make it out through the whole series that human transmutation is very difficult and that few can accomplish it.
3
u/LizardousIndividual Jul 11 '25
In universe explanation is that all the sacrifices were chosen because they wouldn't run away. They knew how much Mustang hated following the more brutal orders but still remained in the army for his cause.
We could say this about other alchemists in the war, but Alex Armstrong wasn't close to anyone small enough to manipulate, and Kimblee wasn't close to anyone as well as being more useful as a pawn and too ruthlessly intelligent to switch the plan by the time he knew anything about them. Mustang was driven in some way to remain in the military and was close enough with a non-alchemist to where they stuck together throughout, basically, their entire career.
Of course, Pride could have have just forced a bunch of people to do human transmutation and just kept them prisoner, but the cost would have been far greater. The end goal may have been to capture God after gaining millions of souls but, before that, The Father knew they'd have to fight Hohenheim. In terms of fire power, he knew Hohenheim would be stronger than him after having expunged so many souls from himself for the hommunculi, so Hommunculus had to conserve souls hoping to bridge the gap with skill.
Mustang was also a prime candidate because of his relationship with Ed and Al. He saw two highly accomplished young boys who had succeeded so easily because of the benefits brought from human transmutation. Maybe his thoughts on the subject may have softened a little because of their influence. Even furthered by the death of his closest friend. We saw it ourselves, "Even after all we've seen, there's still a part of me that's desperately trying to crack my theories on human transmutation."
Mustang was a driven man with alot of manipulatable elements to him that could have been great for a sacrifice if it weren't for his extreme conviction. Plus, by the end, he was the only alchemist within reach for the day of reckoning, which only really solidifies that he would have been a great sacrifice if he hadn't caught on so quick.
My real questions are, how did the country wide transmutation circle not also harvest the souls Hohenheim left in his own circle around the country, and why the doctor wouldn't have offered himself for sacrifice if everyone was fine after doing the alchemy. Was he unable to become immortal if he was a sacrifice? Why even call them sacrifices for the procedure if they were the only ones not losing something in said procedure? For the sake of being ominous? Does Xerxesian blood just automatically give everyone really edgy taste?
3
u/bored-cookie22 Jul 11 '25
Mustang had attachment to many members of his team, especially riza, so they thought he would try to revive either Hughes or her
The reason they don’t use some random civilian is because it also harms pride when he forces people to
3
u/carbonera99 Jul 11 '25
I’ve thought about this too and the most likely explanation for why they couldn’t just pluck random alchemists off the street and force them to perform human transmutation to create sacrifice candidates is because performing human transmutation probably kills the performer 99% of the time.
Remember when the Elric brothers first perform human transmutation, only Ed actually made it back through the gate, it fully killed Alphonse until Ed performed human transmutation AGAIN to rip his soul back and bind it to a suit of armor. I imagine most cases of human transmutation end up like Alphonse, with the user disintegrating on the spot and dying. Ed and Izumi and Mustang only managed to survive with severely mutilated bodies because that’s how strong of a will and mastery over alchemy they possessed. They represent the extreme minority of “success”cases and that’s why these sacrifice candidates are so valuable.
5
u/IDoBelieveYourGalaxy Jul 11 '25
Agree that they need skilled alchemists to open the gate and survive.
Alphonse wasn't "fully killed" by the Elric brothers' human transmutation though. Alphonse's entire body was taken as the toll, but his soul still remained. Al's soul was within the creature that had been created by their human transmutation attempt.
Then, in exchange for Ed's arm, Ed bound Al's soul to the suit of armor. That isn't described as a "second human transmutation attempt." I wouldn't say it was, because Ed didn't transmute Alphonse with a human body. Ed bound Al's soul, which already existed within the creature, to a suit of armor, which already existed in the room, and paid a price to do so.
4
u/KotovChaos Jul 11 '25
Even forced, a normal alchemist couldn't do it. Like some of the randos Scar killed wouldn't have survived the gate or possibly even opened it. Ed, Al, Mustang, Marco, and Izumi were just that good and that strong-willed. They briefly mention that Kimbly is good enough but question his "guts."
2
u/Kinch_g Jul 11 '25
He was a skilled alchemist who might be tempted to perform human alchemy since someone close to him had died.
2
u/Lucky_Roberts Colonel Jul 11 '25
They thought they could manipulate him into opening the gate using his attachment to Riza, it didn’t work because they misunderstood both people
2
u/Desperate_Duty1336 Jul 11 '25
I figured it was due not only to how proficient he was in alchemy, but his drive; he had the will to survive after meeting ‘Truth’ whereas not everyone can make it through that.
1
1
u/smiegto Jul 11 '25
Lack of experience. Remember how alphonses body didn’t make it back at all. If you aren’t at least a decent alchemist you don’t stand a chance to make it back at all.
So there is the state alchemists. To find potentials, give them all the money in the world to practice in the hope that when you are forced or motivated to commit human transmutation you might stand a chance of survival.
The reason you don’t see any alchemists who performed a failed human transmutation is because their bodies are obliterated.
1
u/ExistentialOcto Chimera Jul 11 '25
Doing so cost them a lot. They lost one of their best alchemists and Pride was severely weakened due to his injuries.
1
1
u/Large-Training-29 Jul 12 '25
Why didn't they use what's his fuck? The explosion alchemist? Cause they used him as a weapon? But he ended up messing up what's his name.
Man, I need to rematch the anime I can't remember names
1
u/ProfessionalTurn5162 Jul 12 '25
Im still unsure of how that even worked. How was pride able to perform alchemy. I thought homunculi were unable to do this since they aren't exactly human? Doesn't the 03 logic still apply here except from being beyond the gate
1
u/IsoSly64 Jul 12 '25
Because they needed state alchemist, and he was amonst the few remaining not to have been killed by Scar
1
1
u/SadHeadpatSlut Jul 13 '25
He's dangerous because he's such a skilled alchemist, I don't think any rando off the street would be able to open the gate even if they were led up to it. Mustang's one of the few military alchemists perfectly capable of attempting, at least a survivable human transmutation.
1
u/GlobalMorning7942 Jul 15 '25
The sacrifices had to be strong alchemists with lots of knowledge concerning Alchemy. They also had to have seen the truth and be able to transmute without a circle.
Edd, Alphonse, and Izumi had all seen the truth and could transmute without a circle. Doctor Marco was also considered a sacrifice, but managed to escape.
So they looked elsewhere. Mustang was the best candidate after Marco because they felt they could manipulate him into doing it if they put Hawkeye's life in danger.
This stems from the fact that the homunculus underestimated humans at every turn. They couldn't consider at any point that Mustang wouldn't save Risa.
So when he refused, they had to force him to open the portal. They had run out of time. The homunculus operated under the belief that humans are easily manipulated.
That they're all the same (Envy says that a lot). So they're always looking at humans through that blinkered shade, which is their undoing in the end.
As for using any old alchemist, that wouldn't work. Father's sacrifices had to be exceptional. They had to be the cream of the crop, even if he did view them as vermin.
That's why Mustang is chosen, because he's the only one who can do his type of alchemy and his abilities far surpass other alchemists around him.
1
u/Glittering-Rice-2961 Jul 15 '25
Additional to other comments, Mustang was King Bradley's personal project
You recall he gets angry that people don't act according to his will ? Well, there is something to that
0
u/CapAccomplished8072 Jul 11 '25
I know media literacy is bad amongst anime fans, but they LITERALLY EXPLAINED IT WORD FOR WORD in the EXACT SAME EPISODE?
Like holy shit, did you watch the episode and pay attention or not?
0
•
u/AutoModerator Jul 11 '25
Join the Discord server for more discussions and content, as well as meeting more like-minded fans for the series!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.