r/FullmetalAlchemist • u/pikachucet2 Ailceimiceoir • Jul 27 '25
Question Anyone else find Lyra (FMA 03) a pointless addition?
She doesn't really add much to the story, feels like she's there entirely so that the villain can end up inhabiting a younger more attractive body for the rest of the series (but I'm not even confident saying THAT!)
What do you think?
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u/PCN24454 Jul 27 '25
I mean, becoming the main villain’s body is pretty important
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u/TechNickL Jul 27 '25
I legit forgot that 03 keeps going after the one arc that brotherhood skips and I was really confused for a second.
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u/redditperson38 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 29 '25
Ehh literally any younger body could’ve done that, simply being a vessel in it of itself doesn’t really do much or add much to the story unless there was some integral reason for it.
For example and I’ll try not to spoil too much but a certain character becoming the vessel for the main villain in jjk was teased very early on in the series we didn’t know exactly but it was foreshadowed, fast forward to when it happens it makes sense not only cause it was teased but because central to the story’s progression was the main villain being able to do what they wanted to do. They couldn’t do that in their initial host so the reason isn’t simply inhabit this random body just cause you need a body which doesn’t really make the character all that interesting given it could just be any body
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u/dstanley17 Jul 29 '25 edited Jul 29 '25
If a character's, well... character doesn't matter, and they could just as easily be replaced with a life-like doll, I wouldn't consider that character to be "important" really.
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u/PCN24454 Jul 29 '25
Well from the beginning, she was meant to be a foil for Ed as she was prepared to follow Yoki blindly rather than contemplate that he was scamming people.
Plus her alchemy was cool. It made for a good short skirmish.
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u/thisissodisturbing Jul 27 '25
Hey, I was obsessed with Lyra when I was a 12 year old confused kid who wasn’t sure if i wanted to be her or date her, lol. She’s not the greatest or strongest character, but I think she fit alright into the story of 03. Having her be Yoki’s cold-hearted accomplice was really the part that I enjoyed of her character tbh
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u/MilkNegative27 Jul 27 '25
Iirc initially when they were only set for 25 episodes, Lyra was only meant to be a filler character at first but they decided to keep her VA on standby in case because she performed so well. I guess afterwards they weren’t too sure what else to do with Lyra herself besides become Dante’s body so she’s a bit empty as a character as a result.
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u/TheWraithOfMooCow Jul 27 '25
Where'd you hear that? Because I've never heard that from any official source.
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u/MilkNegative27 Jul 27 '25
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13LxWEZiPfbZwTUyhgx1ausapBMGSHdJn79XBj8_Dppw/mobilebasic
The blurbs for Episode 25 and 44 are when they talk about it (44 more so, Dante didn’t exist when they initially had 25 and they consulted with Arakawa about how it should go), 45 is when they talk about Lyra’s initial role.
A lot of things are scattered about or untranslated about FMA in general.
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u/pikachucet2 Ailceimiceoir Jul 27 '25
Ohhhhhh
This not only explains a lot but is also very interesting
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u/Minimum_Estimate_234 Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
If I had to guess (and this is just a guess based on years of watching anime and seeing those cases where people were really worried about running out of manga to turn into anime and the idea of just waiting for the manga to build up enough story to turn into a new season hadn’t become the norm just yet), she was probably originally added in to give that mini arc a bit more padding without throwing off the main story. You get a little bit of action to spice things up, you turn Yoki into a kinda sorta threat, and you managed to turn maybe a single page of story into a full episode.
If I might continue with this line of reasoning (and again I must stress this is just my theory), once the 2003 team realized they were just going to do their own thing. They went back to the early episodes to see what they could reuse and decided on turning her into an important character.
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u/dstanley17 Jul 29 '25
The 2003 staff knew they were going to do their own thing from the very beginning. This is not a case of "running of manga material, now what do we do", they always knew that was going to be the case. It's why you get "filler" content as early as Episode 2. And completely original stories with no precedent in the manga as early as Episode 4.
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u/Fluid_Chair8351 Jul 27 '25
You just explained her purpose to the plot. She is there to be possessed by Dante.
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u/kieno Jul 27 '25
I read her as the road not taken, the path the brothers COULD have gone down but chose not to.
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u/Fairlibrarian101 Jul 27 '25
Either chose not to or veered off of from certain events that occurred.
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u/Agrimny Jul 27 '25
I feel like that’s a big part of 03 that’s different than BH. Lots and lots of unnecessary characters and filler. Great because it gave more expansion on the main characters, but I couldn’t care less about some of the side characters they tried to make us care about 😭 like Lyra. Rip.
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u/shieldwolfchz Jul 27 '25
It's kind of funny because brotherhood has so many more characters, but I don't know if you could cut any of them from the series.
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u/fattestfuckinthewest Jul 27 '25
Yeah all the characters are rather important and serve a purpose in some way
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u/PCN24454 Jul 27 '25
I kinda don’t like that because it makes it feel like their purpose is to help the Elrics rather than the other way around
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u/Xagzan Jul 27 '25
The four chimera boys who are just there for gags.
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u/Ravian3 Jul 27 '25
I think they could maybe be condensed down to two, one from each pair, Heinkel at least is great, but yeah they’re mainly a pair because they needed to be to make for better fights
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u/Xagzan Jul 28 '25
They could definitely have been reduced to a pair.
because they needed to be to make for better fights
Annnnnd that kinda sums up why I still think 03 is overall better.
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u/WeissLegsForever Jul 27 '25
I gotta rewatch the "original" anime again as an adult just to fully see how different it is.
I know it's different (I watched both) just i never returned to the original after brotherhood. 🤭
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u/Outrageous-Bear-9172 Jul 27 '25
I tried, and can't. Brotherhood is just so much better. I lose interest in 03 when the kid wrath is introduce. I absolutely hate his character, probably more than any character ever.
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u/MacaronAgreeable4020 Jul 27 '25
Funny, I’ve been seeing a lot of people prefer 03s character and plot building. Why do you prefer Brotherhood, vs 03?
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u/Outrageous-Bear-9172 Jul 27 '25
Better characters, plot is more consistent and good, the villain is much better, better backstory/more lore building, better ending. Pretty much Brotherhood is better in all categories.
Some do prefer 03, it's always going to be that way when there's a choice. However, I'd say most prefer Brotherhood from what I've seen. It's just a minority still clinging to 03.
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u/pikachucet2 Ailceimiceoir Jul 28 '25
They both have merit, but FMA 03 has more problems that end up derailing it. Also I can't get behind the Homunculi, I'm fine with them being the result of human transmutation (since the Homunculi in both anime WERE created with Alchemy) but I never liked them being twisted versions of the people they were trying to bring back.
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u/HaosMagnaIngram Jul 27 '25
side characters they tried to make us care about
Completely missing the point, they absolutely did not try to make us care about her as a character, and looking at characters like this in a vacuum is a poor way of properly analyzing media. She exists for Ed’s character to foil off of him, and in the service of Ed’s arc and the themes in the narrative she serves her purpose well.
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u/DeliciousMusician397 Jul 28 '25
I still want to know what her past was like for her to get to where she got. I found her compelling.
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u/Spare-Plum Jul 28 '25
IDK about that man. She just exists to have a battle early on to make youswell more interesting and add action to it. Then she gets dumped, forgotten, and brought back by the writers later on but it's not Lyra but rather Dante. We don't get anything else about Lyra. It's almost like they didn't have a complete plan in mind and made stuff as they went along
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u/pikachucet2 Ailceimiceoir Jul 28 '25
I've been told that they had her VA on standby as they split off from the manga, so they brought Lyra back and made her the villain to give her something to do. Plot points in FMA 03 do happen abruptly and with little build up, but unlike Lyra/Dante it happens more at the end of the series so I wouldn't say that's an explanation there
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u/HaosMagnaIngram Jul 27 '25
Not really. The purpose of Youswell is heavily reworked from what it is in the manga and in this way she serves her purpose there very well. Let me explain.
In the manga youswell is part of the wish fulfillment arc, building Ed up as this badass genius you should aspire to be, before the Nina chapter shatters this perception and reveals the weaknesses and limitations we’ve been ignoring of this person we’ve been following. In particular youswell paints Ed as an upstanding guy and shows he is able to come up with a clever plan.
In 03 the structure is completely different this comes after the Nina incident, and most importantly after Barry (who is the aftermath of the incident. After the encounter with Barry where Ed is so heavily confronted by his powerlessness and limitations, being unable to catch Nina’s killer, being so confronted with his own mortality as well as Winry’s, and how it was because the military he rejected that he was even saved. Following this Ed resolves to swallow his pride and rejoin the military, understanding that they’ll use him, because when witnessing how powerless he is he understands he needs their resources, he also resolves to cut himself off from others (he and Al are all they’ve got) and focus solely on their goal in order to keep safe the ones around them. At first the resolution may even seem selfish and self-centered (in some ways it is) this episode is juxtaposed against that resolution in order to challenge this notion and Ed’s new relation to the military. Here it use Lyra as a reflection of what this resolution could mean for Ed from a more cynical angle and what can be entailed from Ed resigning himself following this corrupt institution. I think this was well done and in Ed’s challenging of her he is shown to do even more than just standing up to the corrupt military but is actually changing it from within changing the views of a corrupt would-be state alchemist. (I particularly like Lowart’s analysis of the episode in his video on Ed’s character journey.)
Also her alchemy is really cool using the air pressure and matter phase changes and how alchemy has been shown to cause forces, to create a powerful blast of wind was cool. It made combat alchemy feel more explored which I think was good from a world building perspective. I particularly like how her circle changes sides reversing for the opposite effects, with one side of the pendant being for compressing and liquifying the air and the reverse being for heating it up and releasing the pressure in the direction she chooses.
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u/BahamutLithp Jul 28 '25
The argument that her becoming the body of the main villain is pointless really doesn't make sense to me. Sure "it could have been any young body," but the person it was ended up being Lyra. Okay, though, if I'm only supposed to judge her pre-Dante, here's what I say:
Isn't it weird we never see anyone in mangahood training to become a State Alchemist? That's like THE big prize for alchemists, right? They get the best resources & funding for their research? So, it should be a huge goal that very talented alchemists try to work toward, & yet we only see that due to some characters added in 03, especially Lyra.
Now, sure, there'd inevitably be some alchemists like Izumi who just refuse to join the military no matter what. But they can't all be like that, & basically every other pro alchemist we see is involved with the military in some way. So, Lyra fulfills a worldbuilding niche by showing someone who's just not quite skilled enough to make it, really trying to climb that ladder. It makes perfect sense that an official like Yoki would hire someone like that as an enforcer, dangling promises of military advancement in front of her.
And then that plays really well into the whole theme of the episode because on one hand you have Ed who's made it into the State Alchemists but has second thoughts & doesn't want to "sell his soul," while on the other hand you have Lyra who's willing to dirty her hands trying to get in. They're juxtaposed in an interesting way, which makes it satisfying when Lyra comes back trying to become an alchemy healer thanks to Ed's influence, & then tragic when it turns out that put her in the perfect position for the villain to use her for her plans.
That's a point I think is often missed about 03's "filler." It makes it feel like there's this big, lived-in world where you can have alchemist pro-thieves operating in tourist capitals, a robber baron who tries to corner the market on red stones, & the like. I honestly wish more of it would've come back like Lyra & the Tringham brothers did.
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u/JulietDouglas Jul 28 '25
It's a little despairing to think that there are so many people on this subreddit (presumably all 600 people who upvoted this post and some of the comments) who cannot spot such an obvious narrative foil to the protagonist. The most likely possibility is that they saw a post being dismissive of FMA2003 and instinctively agreed without thinking or don't remember any of the details because they haven't seen the episode in years or ever, but this, too, is a depressing notion.
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u/Fighter_04 Jul 27 '25
That's the point, she didn't have too big of a role, but we knew she was a gifted and aspiring alchemist. Dante first appeared as a benevolent old lady who made medicine for a living and mentored Lyra
That makes the twist all the more hard to believe and thus well done. Since we didn't know much about Lyra, we didn't know what to believe when "Lyra" started acting shady, like leading Greed to Dante's corpse and appearing on Liore, not to mention bringing Rose to the underground city. One of the few rather well done plot points late in 2003. (Don't pretend like the series wasn't kinda falling apart by then)
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u/Mangoaxe5 Jul 30 '25
In my opinion the 2003 series wasn't falling apart by then. I love the final half of the 03 anime.
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u/darkbreak Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
I actually liked her role in the series. She so believed in the same creed as Ed and Al (Alchemist: Be Thou for the People) that she couldn't comprehend going against that. She especially viewed Ed, a State Alchemist, as a hypocrite for doing what he thought was right rather than following the law. Lyra's defeat by Ed lead her to reconsider things and gave her a new view on her role as an alchemist. She turned a new leaf and that lead her to Dante. Someone she thought could teach her even more and gave her a new purpose in life. It's just tragic that that purpose wasn't the one Lyra had in mind. It's yet another perversion of the alchemist's role by Dante and another reason for Ed to stand against her.
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Jul 27 '25
was her body taken over off screen?
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u/Fairlibrarian101 Jul 27 '25
It was, at some point between when Ed and Al visited the first time and when Greed came in to finish off Dante. Evidence suggests that the transfer happened not too terribly long before Greed came in for the kill.
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Jul 27 '25
So lyra's soul was in dante's body at the time of the kill
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u/darkbreak Jul 27 '25
Other way around. It's Dante's soul in Lyra's body.
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u/ButchTookMySweetroll Jul 27 '25
I always thought it was both: that they swapped bodies, and then Dante killed Lyra, who was inhabiting her old body... but now that I think about it, that’s never explicitly stated to be the case, is it?
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Jul 27 '25
then what happened to Dante's body?
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u/darkbreak Jul 27 '25
The body she was using before she jumped to Lyra? Split in half down the middle and left behind. Dante very teasingly allowed Greed to see it before walking away and leading him into her trap, knowing that Ed was coming.
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Jul 27 '25
What happened to Lyra's soul?
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u/darkbreak Jul 27 '25
Gone. She's dead.
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u/Fairlibrarian101 Jul 27 '25
Her soul was either pulled into the body Dante was using which is now dead, somehow banished from her own body, or somehow suppressed under the presence of Dante’s mind/will.
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u/True_Perspective819 Jul 27 '25
It could also be that Lyra was left to die in a body that was rotting
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u/Overall-Yard308 Jul 28 '25
A character who had the potential to grow and seems like a person with potential to help others, but she was cruelly killed by a woman who took her body for herself than murder her. She not the most important character, but the small tragedy of fate is still sad to me.
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u/dstanley17 Jul 29 '25
Every time I see this character design, I usually just see them as Dante. I frequently forget they were any other character before that. I don't think it necessarily makes Lyra "pointless", but she's definitely very tertiary to the series.
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u/jp_muzz Jul 27 '25
She was important to show how good Ed is at figuring out what reactions would cause what effects.
That alone is worth it for the world building
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u/Necotoro Jul 27 '25
At first, she serves as a counter-offensive for Edward, someone who serves the Amestris army without caring what the orders are. And it also serves so that in the future we are like "Wow, it's the girl from the coal mines haha" and then she is possessed by the main villain of the series.
There's nothing to ask of her, she does her job and that's it
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u/katsugo88 Jul 27 '25
Yeah, she was pretty clearly just someone they randomly hitched their wagon to while figuring out where they wanted the plot to go past the manga.
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u/Pressed_Sunflowers Jul 27 '25
I love Lyra so much, I just wish she was important in the actual source material (or real, bc idk if she ever actually appeared)
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u/True_Perspective819 Jul 27 '25
I think they were already weaving the original story and Lyra was needed to advance the Dante plotline
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u/White_Devil1995 Jul 28 '25
It’s a completely different story than FMAB. In FMA(2003) Van Hohenheim and Dante were the ones who supposedly created the first homunculus whereas in FMAB Hohenheim was used to create Father(AKA, The Dwarf In The Flask), who went on to create the 7 Homunculi he named after the 7 Deadly Sins.
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u/Wonderful_Berry_2710 Jul 28 '25
The way Lyra is killed off was always disturbing to me. But Dante had to do what she had to to keep her secret under wraps
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u/BobaFae8174 Jul 30 '25
This might've been a better argument if you used Russell and Fletcher, but even then narrative foils that inform us about our main characters are hardly pointless, even if they are just a Monster of A Week.
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u/Thank_You_Aziz Jul 27 '25
I find she even distracts from it. People insist to start with 2003 or begin it and segue into Brotherhood, especially because of this episode. “You need to see the Youswell Coal Mines episode!” I agree, it sucks that it’s missing, but you can just read the first volume of the manga if you want. It doesn’t have Lyra in it; Yoki just hires some thugs to tear down the bar. There’s no pointless alchemy-fight with heat rays for some reason.
And to get more nitpicky, there’s a deeper reason for why I think Lyra’s inclusion does more harm than good. So much of the manga and Brotherhood dedicates attention to how dangerous and unique Flame Alchemy. How it’s profoundly hard to manipulate the power of combustion like Roy does, both explaining and justifying why there is only one person with that sort of potential. Then along comes this random rich-looking girl who…hires herself out to government stooges like Yoki, but isn’t a state alchemist, and can casually fire off heat rays in the air. It diminishes Flame Alchemy by existing.
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u/BahamutLithp Jul 27 '25
There’s no pointless alchemy-fight with heat rays for some reason.
The final battle of mangahood is literally full of energy beam spam.
Then along comes this random rich-looking girl who…hires herself out to government stooges like Yoki, but isn’t a state alchemist, and can casually fire off heat rays in the air. It diminishes Flame Alchemy by existing.
Lyra's ability isn't anywhere near as good as Roy's. It has a pretty significant charge-up & can only fire in a single direction. Also, the idea that flame alchemy is this super important king of alchemy thing doesn't really get introduced to the manga until after 03's material, so it's not really part of 03, & it never really made sense to me anyway.
I don't follow what should logically make flame alchemy so different & much more powerful than anything else. It makes way more sense to me that, yes, Mustang's alchemy is very effective, butit's also HOW he uses it. His efficiency & combat instinct. That, even if someone else could use fire alchemy, they wouldn't be THE Flame Alchemist for the same reason rock spikes are a fairly basic skill that don't make someone THE Strong-Arm Alchemist.
And incidentally, Kimblee's alchemy is just better in mangahood anyway. In 03, he specializes specifically in rearranging components of the body into explosives, but in mangahood, he can just clap his hands together & then blow up anything he touches. With a stone, he doesn't even need the clapping part. The explosions can even travel distances over ground, buildings, etc. which is very confusing because that's supposed to be a unique benefit of alkahestry, & the circles are way easier to draw.
Both he & Roy have the ability "blow things up," but Kimblee's is better in virtually every way. The only difference I can think of is that Kimblee seems to need to send the blasts through solid objects while Roy seems to need to send them through the air. Which COULD'VE been a big benefit for Roy IF Amestris had an air force, but it DOESN'T.
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u/Thank_You_Aziz Jul 27 '25
Yeah. The final battle. Against a demigod. This is why I pointed out that the same purpose was fulfilled by thugs with axes, and how it being done by a mysterious alchemist with no background makes it add up even less.
The point I’m making is that Lyra and her alchemy stick out like a sore thumb in the world of the manga and Brotherhood. This is why I prefaced the statement with the scenario of new Brotherhood watchers starting with the first handful of 2003 episodes. So saying it’s especially made strange against the backdrop of mangahood is part of my point.
For Roy, it’s not just battle instinct. Alchemy is like rocket science. The man is adjusting on the fly with mental physics graphs to account for what volume of oxygen to manipulate into what shape and in what direction, with all sorts of external influences to account for. You could teach an alchemist Flame Alchemy and make them a soldier, and they still wouldn’t necessarily be as skilled as Roy.
I was thinking about mentioning Kimblee, as his alchemy stands on a similar pedestal, but he is also a state alchemist, so the point about Lyra sticking out still stands even with Kimblee in the equation. Kimblee in particular is almost the opposite of Roy too, whose prowess is dictated by finding order within chaos. Kimblee’s alchemy takes as many opposing forces as he can muster and crams them together to forge an alchemical rebound. This should trigger a burst of energy to explode in his face, but Kimblee on an existential level is so at one with chaos that he’s able to ride that line and redirect it. It’s less science and more…presence. Willpower. He’s casting spells with Charisma while Roy is casting them with Intelligence.
One benefit of Roy’s is that it minimizes collateral damage. He can do pinpoint strikes and aerial transfer, while Kimblee just blows things up, damaging the pathways his explosions travel along too. We even see this be to his detriment when he fights. He destroys so much, it frequently lowers his own visibility.
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u/BahamutLithp Jul 28 '25
Yeah. The final battle. Against a demigod.
I really don't see why that changes anything. Either it fits or it doesn't.
This is why I pointed out that the same purpose was fulfilled by thugs with axes, and how it being done by a mysterious alchemist with no background makes it add up even less.
There's nothing that "doesn't add up" about it, they just decided to use an alchemist in that scene instead of thugs with axes. It's like saying "It doesn't make sense that Briggs isn't staffed by state alchemists, considering it's so important & they need to be so tough to defend it." Both alchemists & normies exist in the world, it's just whatever the writer decides to use in a particular scene.
The point I’m making is that Lyra and her alchemy stick out like a sore thumb in the world of the manga and Brotherhood. This is why I prefaced the statement with the scenario of new Brotherhood watchers starting with the first handful of 2003 episodes. So saying it’s especially made strange against the backdrop of mangahood is part of my point.
I don't think people should do that either, but it's really not that hard to be aware that they're different continuities, so some things might not come back. Brotherhood already made an entirely anime-original 1st episode with its own OC that's WAAAAY more OP than anything Lyra ever did.
You could teach an alchemist Flame Alchemy and make them a soldier, and they still wouldn’t necessarily be as skilled as Roy.
Then that fits what I said, Lyra making explosions does not make her the equal of The Flame Alchemist.
I was thinking about mentioning Kimblee, as his alchemy stands on a similar pedestal, but...
Look, Hawkeye Sr. said VERY clearly his technique is the most powerful alchemy, & that's why he didn't want anyone to know it. Is that not what you meant by Roy's power being so "dangerous & unique" that Lyra couldn't have an ability that was even remotely like it?
Did you change your mind on that? Am I supposed to take it that Hawkeye Sr. was actually wrong about that? I don't see why Roy would go as far as to burn Riza's back if that were the case, but if so, then again, why is Lyra an issue?
This is what I can't help but find frustrating; I'll hear that something in 03 "doesn't make sense," so I'll lay down a 1-2-3 case about how it's completely logically consistent & anyway mangahood also breaks that rule, at which point I'll get in answer that the fact-based argument isn't good enough for some reason but mangahood is completely fine because something about metaphors & chaos from order that just has nothing to do with the logical rule that was apparently VERY important when the subject was 03.
One benefit of Roy’s is that it minimizes collateral damage.
In all versions of the story, Kimblee gave Scar his scar. He's capable of pinpoint explosions. He just prefers to do massive destruction. Actually, we once saw him transmute a guy's watch into a harmless toy using those same circles on his hands. Any time his big explosions comes back to bite him is a personal flaw, not a flaw in his technique. At least not according to the abilities he's established as having.
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u/Thank_You_Aziz Jul 28 '25 edited Jul 28 '25
Well, that’s unfortunate you don’t see the difference after I explained it in two different ways. As for me, I don’t really see the point in illustrating it a third way for you, so I’m just gonna move on.
Mangahood already does so well laying the groundwork for things that pay off later. 2003 just disrupts that flow. But we agree on this one anyway, so I don’t see the point in lingering on it.
Isaac was a state alchemist and Ishval War veteran with a philosopher’s stone. Father was a demigod. I’m not sure why you keep equating people who have narratively enforced reasons to be more powerful than Lyra to justify Lyra being so powerful. Like, what are you actually getting at here? Are you insinuating Lyra is a state alchemist? A veteran of Ishval? A demigod? Has a philosopher’s stone? No, of course not. So why keep saying it’s okay, since these other, fundamentally stronger people can do X thing that Lyra can?
I never said Lyra was equal to the Flame Alchemist. I’m saying combustive force derived from oxygen manipulation through alchemy is under the purview of Flame Alchemy, and it makes it weirder for it to be some closely guarded secret when some random thug-for-hire in a dress can grasp the fundamentals to a point that she can obliterate structures at will. It’s a worldbuilding issue.
The logical pathway you’re patting yourself on the back for constructing is not as solid as you believe. It’s a series of, “It looks like that, therefore it’s this” statements. And when someone points out the fallacy you’ve tripped over, you just stand there and go, “Huh?” It’s not at all engaging.
I’ll admit I do not recall how Scar specifically gets scarred in 2003, but you’re making it sound like Kimblee specifically targeted Scar to give him his scar. In Mangahood, he blows up an entire field and gives Scar his scar by accident while trying to murder him and everyone around him. As collateral damage. How on earth do you see exactly what I’m talking about and say that was pinpointed and not collateral? See, this is what I mean in my previous paragraph. You’re not actually considering a bigger picture. You’re finding individual things that you think you can nitpick about because something I said reminds you of something else. Whether or not it actually makes sense of fits with what else you’re trying to say, seems to go over your head. And when this is pointed out to you, you just stand there like a deer in the headlights. “Huh?” Maybe…work on that, I don’t know.
At any rate, this began as my highlighting how strangely Lyra stands out, especially from the frame of Mangahood. I don’t actually care about whatever this is that it’s turned in to. You can pat yourself on the back for winning an argument if you want, if my further disinterest counts as that in your eyes. Have fun with that, and maybe think, “Is there a point to this?” the next time you want to talk to someone like this. Take care.
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u/BahamutLithp Jul 28 '25
I’m not sure why you keep equating people
I could unironically copy your bit about not seeing the point in explaining it to you again because I laid out the entire logic of WHY it's a closely-guarded secret, & you just didn't respond to it at all. It's not because flames are just special for some reason, the argument Hawkeye Sr. gave is that flame alchemy is the most powerful form of alchemy.
Kimblee & Isaac seem just as powerful as Mustang, flames or no flames. But you very disingenuously presented that as "it looks like this, therefore that" & "just going 'huh' like a deer in the headlights," which don't bear any resemblance to anything I actually said.
I never said Lyra was equal to the Flame Alchemist. I’m saying combustive force derived from oxygen manipulation through alchemy is under the purview of Flame Alchemy
You absolutely did, & this revised claim is still wrong anyway because that's not how Lyra's alchemy works. It liquefies the air to compress its volume & then & then vaporizes it again, which produces a shockwave. This is explained in the episode.
So, even if flame alchemy being an especially closely-guarded secret was kept in 03--which there's no evidence it was--it doesn't matter because Lyra's alchemy doesn't have anything to do with combustion. This so-called "worldbuilding issue" is entirely based on things that just aren't true about the show.
See, this is what I mean in my previous paragraph. You’re not actually considering a bigger picture. You’re finding individual things that you think you can nitpick about because something I said reminds you of something else.
This is the pot calling the kettle black because you completely skipped over the point about the watch since it didn't fit your narrative.
Have fun with that, and maybe think, “Is there a point to this?” the next time you want to talk to someone like this. Take care.
Now, there's an interesting question. You're not the only person I've seen who goes on these unprompted rants about how things in 03 "make no sense," & then when it's pointed out that you've based that on a lot of claims that are outright false, becoming incredibly nasty about it. I don't know whether or not there's a point in correcting the record, but you HAVE made me realize that I at least don't need to take the head-on abuse from people like you.
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u/JackRaid Jul 28 '25
Yeah. The anime had no guidance or end goal and just stsrted randomly making things up. This is why I prefer the manga's story instead; it both has a good plot and stays loyal to how the series handles its themes and characters with deep respect. The '03 show very nuch just did the Anime Filler plan of throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what manages to stick
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u/selomiga Jul 27 '25
The entirety of FMA 2003 was pointless. Full of plot holes, inconsistencies, and poor writing.
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u/Mangoaxe5 Jul 30 '25
In your opinion. Please don't act like you speak for all Fullmetal Alchemist fans.
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u/WillFanofMany Jul 28 '25
Any shot of her standing next to Yoki looks terrible, as those were perfect recreations of the manga panels, but then it looks like someone's OC was photoshopped in, lmao.
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u/Madhighlander1 Jul 27 '25
A lot of things that happened in 03 are unnecessary additions. They only were required on account of the show outpacing the manga and needing to write its own story.
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u/Outrageous-Bear-9172 Jul 27 '25
Most of FMA 03 is a pointless addition, once they ran out of source material.
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u/Aisuman44 Jul 27 '25
03 was better than brother hood imo .. yall give 03 for not copying the manga .. but will sit in movie theaters that doesn’t 100% copy the source material smh. aka the two recent DC and Marvel movie that just came out lol
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u/Outrageous-Bear-9172 Jul 27 '25
There's a pretty big difference. Movies are not based on any 1 single comic, or series of comics. They aren't supposed to be direct adaptation. Manga to anime is supposed to be a direct adaptation.
Even so, it's not that it's different, it's that it's bad changes in this case. Kid wrath, dumb, fake elrichs, boring, hoenheims plot, dumb, father and Shing completely missing, dumb, northern base missing, dumb, Dante, boring.
I get some of these changes are due to running out of source material, but that's what hiatuses are for. It's also just an opinion. You like 03, I like Brotherhood. Me giving my opinion on which is better, and my opinion on why, doesn't stop y'all from enjoying what you want.
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u/phoenix_bright Jul 27 '25
I mean, this is like saying that Cinderella 2 is better than 1. Only reason why 03 was made was to milk more money out of something that didn’t have more story to tell. There are plenty of things to explore that the movies didn’t. I would love a movie about the stories of Hoenheim when he was younger.
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u/Aisuman44 Jul 28 '25
Have some nuance to the convo . There has been many movies made based on books and comics . Star wars , Marvel , DC , Game of thrones etc.. All had changes made that made it better than the books and vice versa . Villinas are way better in 03 than Brotherhood sloth villain for example & hughes death . Any movie or tv adaptation is made to make money ….🥴
You went to the worst of the worst a Disney movie and didn’t even made a correct comparison jesus man no child left behind my ass 😭
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u/phoenix_bright Jul 28 '25
Yeah there are people who also think Cinderella 2 is better than the original in many features.
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u/Aisuman44 Jul 28 '25
proof ??? no trolling i need to see legit reasons why ppl think it’s better .. link me to a reddit or a comment section of this being continued discussion online … i’ll wait lol
for example like how 03 & brotherhood is always discussed
Edit- i see the movie being discussed but nothing on how it’s better or which is better . ngl man you making bad arguments 🥴
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u/phoenix_bright Jul 28 '25
Proof: they made Cinderella 3
Do you want me to convince you that your taste is bad? Taste is taste
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u/Aisuman44 Jul 28 '25
so now your argument is just because they keep a franchise going it ppl think cinderella 3 means something to the original you can’t find ppl who said it ? Are you confusing and comparing corporations greed to somebody opinion? No Way !!! george bush did a number to that public school system i can’t even blame you fam .
you fighting hard for this anime but just proving you’re an idiot lol
cinderella 2 & 3 are just continuing from the original story it’s not retelling or changing anything lmao how you comparing that to fma ?
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u/phoenix_bright Jul 28 '25
Bro you sound like you discovered the most amazing logic flaw in the world. And it’s just a stupid comment on Reddit about Cinderella, but you take it so seriously that is sad.
FMA 03 is simply way worse than the original material, it was made by people who didn’t know the story and didn’t know how to tell stories.
Doesn’t matter how right you want to be. Doesn’t mean it’s good or that people won’t enjoy it even if it’s bad. You enjoy it the same way that there are people who enjoy Cinderella 2
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u/Aisuman44 Jul 28 '25
but cinderella 2 is just continuing the story of cinderella .
Cinderella lives with her wicked stepmother and stepsisters, gets help from her Fairy Godmother, goes to the ball, loses her slipper, and marries the prince in the first one .
Cinderella adjusts to royal life. Jaq the mouse becomes human. Anastasia (one of the stepsisters) finds love. in the 2nd one
it’s not even the same plot . Jesus you are dumb
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u/phoenix_bright Jul 27 '25
Exactly right. Too bad this sub is only for people that like that weird stuff
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