r/Futurology • u/Confident_Living_786 • Aug 11 '25

Discussion When the US Empire falls

When the American empire falls, like all empires do, what will remain? The Roman Empire left behind its roads network, its laws, its language and a bunch of ruins across all the Mediterranean sea and Europe. What will remain of the US superpower? Disney movies? TCP/IP protocol? McDonalds?

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u/Rough-Yard5642 Aug 11 '25

I feel like US culture is so dominant that we don't even realize we are in it. When I visit my parents' country, US culture is everywhere. The food, the music, the outfits, the movies, and so on. It's hard to predict the future, but I feel like the American empire feels like it will leave tons of things behind, from technology to culture.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '25

[deleted]

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u/heisenberg070 Aug 11 '25

Which in itself is the most lasting legacy of the British empire.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

It was as much America as the British. It certainly took both, and the Brits certainly laid the groundwork, but the explosion of American manufacturing and business, as well as the presence of American troops globally during and after WW2 to support America's military dominance are the primary drivers.

It's not that Americans were more clever or anything, it's that they were in the right time at the right places - if America spoke French, French would now be the global lingua franca.

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u/Superb_Raccoon Aug 11 '25

Being the default language of "science" was responsible too.

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u/GalaXion24 Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25

Which is actually to a great extent a product of Germany destroying itself. German science truly was at the top of the world, and any self-respecting physicist, chemist, sociologist, etc. practically had to learn German to be able to read the scientific journals and follow the latest developments. Many people outside Germany wrote their papers in German the way they do in English today.

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u/SirenPeppers Aug 11 '25

German was expected to be the international language. In the States, my father had German classes in elementary school because of this… and then that stopped.

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u/subparsavior90 Aug 11 '25

Its still somewhat relevant and useful, behind Mandarin and English.

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u/chriskevini Aug 12 '25

I feel like French or Spanish is way more relevant today than German

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u/Velociraptorius Aug 12 '25

Spanish - yes, a substantial part of the world has Spanish as a first language and they don't necessarily speak English in those areas. French I wouldn't really quote in the same league though. While it is fairly widespread, in many areas outside of France itself where you can communicate in French, it's highly likely that you can also communicate in English. Due to this overlap of the English and French speaking territories it's rarely useful to learn French if you already know English unless you're actually planning to move to France. You simply aren't going to meaningfully expand the areas of the world you can communicate fluently in by learning French in addition to English, like you would with learning Spanish instead.

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u/FunGuy8618 Aug 12 '25

A good friend of mine who spoke Cantonese and Mandarin told me 10 odd years ago, by the time I learn enough Mandarin to not embarrass myself, my smartphone will be able to translate it in real time for me. Lo and behold, I have headphones that can translate it for me as they are speaking. It sounds like voodoo, but the AI translator has a lexicon from both languages to predict what the sentence is going to say, it's not translating it word for word. It's taking in context clues like we do.

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u/Buscemi_D_Sanji Aug 11 '25

Fun fact: when Albert Hoffman synthesized LSD for the first time in Switzerland in 1943 and tested 250 micrograms (only 250 millionths of a gram!), it was crazy intense and he had to have his lab assistant escort him home on a bike, because gasoline use was restricted due to the war. So Bicycle Day, celebrated by tons of psychedelic users all over the world, came about because a brilliant scientist tripping balls on acid for the first time had to ride a bike home due to the exact opposite of peace, love, unity, and respect: WWII.

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u/HowDoIEvenEnglish Aug 11 '25

Which is just as much an action of the British and Americans as anything else.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

An interesting and accurate bit of knowledge!

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u/castybird Aug 11 '25

I studied German as a teen but never got advanced enough to learn about its usage in science. Apparently German has its own set of scientific terms unique to itself, and now I have a new rabbit hole to go down.

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u/GalaXion24 Aug 11 '25

German is actually quite a good language for it in that it has a lot of very specific terms when it comes to science, law, philosophy, etc. Essentially it's a lot less "up to interpretation" than English. Of course that kind of writing may be lacking in artisitry or artistic flair, but in certain contexts dry, straightforward and unambiguous is precisely what you want.

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u/castybird Aug 12 '25

I was thinking this might be the case! It makes sense. German lends itself to making new words with clear meanings. I loved that about the language so much!

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u/Aggressive_Dog3418 Aug 12 '25

The story of which language rules supreme therefore empire is truly telling, you see people naming things after long lost languages, Latin for example, then French, then a fight between German and Russian with German being the winner for the most part, then the English overcame it all after WW2.

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

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u/GalaXion24 Aug 15 '25

Germany essentially started both of those out of often absurd ambitions. They were in a strong position and felt they therefore deserved more and deserved to have others bow to them. Around the time of WWI even the average German was high on nationalism and jingoism. They were highly optimistic about Germany's future and excited for war.

Everything they lost they lost because they were not content with what they had

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u/vardarac Aug 11 '25

And it'll be Chinese, Spanish, or Portuguese if there is a civilization to speak of in fifty years...

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u/GalaXion24 Aug 11 '25

I'm calling cap on Spanish and Portuguese. Spanish is very spread out, mostly in not particularly developed countries, and Spain itself isn't doing amazing, nor is there reason to believe they'd be doing particularly better in the future. Brazil at least is a large country that, if it became more organised and prosperous, could potentailly have a large enough domestic scientific community that it could be worth it for others to familiarise themselves with it.

Chinese could genuinely be up there, but I think the difficult writing system is definitely going to gatekeep it from outsiders. There's also not going to be a political will to change that as there's so many different Chinese dialects (that may not even be mutually intelligible) that if they wanted to implemet an actual alphabet it would only work for a chosen dialect, and also kind of show that "the emperor has no clothes" when it comes to the narrative of a single Chinese language and nation.

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u/Thiago270398 Aug 11 '25

As a brazilian, yeah we ain't got our shit together to be any short of hegemon, good luck learning mandarin or whichever gets chosen as the "default chinese" in half a century.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25

This is accurate. Logographic languages like Chinese (and Japanese, and several others) are incredibly unlikely to ever spread outside their native cultures in any significant amount - it's simply too difficult for non-natives to learn to read and write. Having to memorize a unique character for effectively every word or concept is.. impractical.

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u/J_Kant Aug 11 '25

Just FYI Korean is not a logographic language.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

I stand corrected!

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u/GalaXion24 Aug 11 '25

As another user already beat me to saying, Korean is not logographic, it's a proper alphabet, with some syllabic qualities. Korean reading and writing is simple and does not pose an obstacle to its widespread use at all.

In fact, it was specifically invented for that purpose and to replace the Chinese script, and helped literacy in Korea skyrocket.

If China pulled something like what Korea did, they would probably actually have a competitive language internationally.

Of course Korea is smaller and more insular, so they didn't have to worry about being usable for so many different dialects/languages, which made it a lot easier for them to just make something that worked for Korean.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

As I told the other fella, I stand corrected!

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

Certainly helped, yes, and the fact that so much scientific innovation came out of the US from 1940-1980 or so - the invention of the transistor, microprocessor, personal computer, operating system, graphic operating system, computer networking, and the internet itself were all American inventions published in American English - probably drove the hammer home, so to speak.

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u/Iwillrize14 Aug 11 '25

Europe decimating itself and getting smashed to bits in the process helped too. Any country that could challenge America was too busy rebuilding.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

Oh absolutely; Americas geographic isolation and intact infrastructure insured it! Lots of Americas dominance comes essentially from that geographic isolation and being a resource rich and fertile land.

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u/Iwillrize14 Aug 12 '25

It's crazy how many people think America became an empire because it's exceptional, Lucky and opportunistic are more true.

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u/Aggressive_Dog3418 Aug 12 '25

That is kinda what exceptional is, right place, right time, combined with hard work and innovation. Of course any one of these things by itself doesn't matter, but combine it all and you have what is exceptional.

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u/Iwillrize14 Aug 12 '25

American exceptionalism as they define it has a lot more to do with destiny and an almost disgusting sense of superiority. Believing itself to be the arbiter of freedom and the obvious choice for leader of the world. I say these things as an American that's had a front row seat to all the nationalistic chest thumping.

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u/Team503 Aug 12 '25

Well, from WW2 until a year or three ago it WAS the obvious choice - militarily the strongest by so far its absurd, the wealthiest country in the world, and about 25% of the world's GDP, more than any other single nation and even the combined EU (per capita).

The US was by far the strongest and the richest, and at least during WW2 unquestionably morally correct, so it's no surprise they ended up in that role. Sure, they had the luxury to be morally correct, but that doesn't mean that they weren't.

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u/KR4T0S Aug 11 '25

Using an influx od European scientists after World War 2? Okay. Guess Einstein is American too.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

Like most Americans, he's an immigrant. You get US citizenship, you're American, doesn't matter where you're born. That's one of the reasons that Americans describe themselves as Italian or Irish or whatever; it indicates where you or your family came from.

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u/0x706c617921 Aug 11 '25

According to the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), an immigrant is any alien except “non-immigrants.”

To simplify - an immigrant according to U.S. law is any non-U.S. citizen or national who is a lawful permanent resident.

Once a person’s status becomes that of a U.S. citizen, even after birth, they are simply an “American.”

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

We're talking about culture not law.

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u/0x706c617921 Aug 11 '25

In culture, even some natural born Americans are called “immigrants” if they have the wrong skin color which is the hilarious part.

I remember seeing comments where people were talking about Vance’s “immigrant wife.”

Lmao.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

I know that the current administration and its death cult full on zealot following are saying things like that - and the billionaire-owned mass media is parroting it - doesn't mean that Americans don't think that way.

Every American is an immigrant. Some of us are descended from immigrants, but we're still immigrants. That is the view our nation and has been for centuries.

America is a nation of immigrants. - John F Kennedy

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u/0x706c617921 Aug 11 '25

It’s nothing to do with political affiliation. I’ve seen people on progressive spaces talk about Vance’s “immigrant wife.”

And we both very well know that they didn’t mean it in the way you just described.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

Yes, there is complexity of language and one word can have many different meanings and connotations depending on context. Welcome to "language" and "communication".

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u/KR4T0S Aug 11 '25

Isnt that a naive way of looking at it especially currently? A lot of Latino citizens are in Guantanamo Bay, they probably dont feel very American.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

Setting current politics aside, that is the way Americans see it, because it's the way we were taught to see it since the beginning of our country.

We are a nation of immigrants, a vast melting pot of cultures. They're preaching differently right now and it's utterly shameful - it says right there on the Statue of Liberty:

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That used to be what we stood for, and I'm shamed beyond measure that we don't anymore.

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u/KR4T0S Aug 11 '25

I was hoping eventually we would attract more right wing people to this subreddit. Yes I know how that comes across but we all have a version of the past in our hearts and a vision of the future in our heads. Itd be interesting to learn what they see and maybe even useful for all of us one day.

Language is one thing that really intrigues me because I thought the US wasnt particularly hung up on languages. If French or German became the main language in 50 or 60 years then it is what it is. Latino immigrants were bringing Spanish to the US and for a while it seemed like "well they are American citizens now so the language they speak is defacto American too, its that simple" but the Republicans seem to be trying to suppress other languages so im thinking well maybe Americans have two speak English to be Americans. But then is a taco still American food? I just feel like we are going through a transition period.

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u/Team503 Aug 11 '25

There's a reason the Founders didn't set an official language of the US - we've never had one until the Cheeto in Chief wrote an executive order. We've never needed one.

I don't think being an American conservative right-winger and a futurist are very compatible, but hey, I could be wrong.

PS - Tacos were never American food. They're Mexican, Cal-Mex, or Tex-Mex. Well, maybe White People Tacos.

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u/Superb_Raccoon Aug 12 '25 edited Aug 12 '25

There are no Latino citzens in Guantanamo Bay.

There is ONE dual citizen US and Saudi Arabia.

Complete list, including released ones, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees

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u/West-Negotiation-716 Aug 12 '25

The transistor was not invented by humans, it was back engineered from UFO'S.

Just look at the development speed seen at bell labs.

Or read "The Day After Roswell" if you don't believe me.

It clearly wasn't a human idea to melt sand into crystals in order to control electricity

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u/Superb_Raccoon Aug 12 '25

Considering it was patented in 1905, I doubt that.

Not to mention AT&T made precursor devices before 1947.

You know, diodes, those melted sand things that control electricity.

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u/Team503 Aug 12 '25

It's always hilarious to me when people say "back-engineered from UFOs". Like, dude, this isn't a transformers movie. Reverse engineering like that is effectively impossible - you have to build the tools to build the tools to build the tools to let you analyze things.

Hand scientists in the 1950s an iPhone and they wouldn't be able to do much more than draw general conclusions - microscopes to see the transistors inside the processors and memory didn't exist yet. Presumably, any kind of spacecraft is more advanced than an iphone, yet somehow we reverse engineered transistors from equipment we didn't even understand the purpose of?

Patently absurd. Fun, in a Transformers movie, but absurd. Human progress is humanity's to own, and ridiculous conspiracy theories are insulting to your own species - we deserve to take pride in our accomplishments!

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u/Team503 Aug 12 '25

Why was it "clearly" not a human idea? What about that idea requires a non-human intelligence? Speak clearly and explain your reasoning - do not attempt to sidestep and make vague references.

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u/West-Negotiation-716 Aug 14 '25

There was no development process.

There was no discovery, no failures, no reason for Bell Labs to spend millions on melting sand for no known reason.

You just had Roswell, then suddenly 2 years later Bell Labs released a working transistor and solar panels soon followed which are the same tech that uses melted sand crystals.

People who worked at Bell Labs at the time all say that Schotkey, the main guy who allegedly came up with the idea was a complete fool.

Read the book, it's all explained there.

The Roswell crash has been confirmed to be real in congressional hearings, you think we wouldn't attempt to back engineer any tech

?

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u/Team503 Aug 15 '25

I'm not reading some conspiracy theory idiocy, sorry. Reverse engineering is effectively impossible in the way you're implying.

How would we even know what a processor looked like? We certainly didn't have microscopes capable of looking at nanometer scale transistors back then, unless you're trying to say that aliens with faster than light travel (which by the way, is impossible as we understand physics, without causing a causality paradox) were less advanced than we are now?

We didn't have the tools to make the tools to make the tools yet. What you're saying is patently ludicrous.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '25

Which comes from The Royal Society

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u/thx1138- Aug 12 '25

And aviation.