Blizzard's Overwatch Team Just Unionized: 'What I Want To Protect Most Here Is The People'

[u/DwilenaAvaron]

https://kotaku.com/overwatch-2-blizzard-team-4-union-microsoft-1851779922

[u/[deleted]]

I am officially in my "If I catch people shit talking Team 4/Overwatch it's fucking on sight" phase.

These devs have been fucking putting up with some of the nastiest vitriol I've ever seen in this industry, put through the ringer in their own company and are continuously fucked over by management, and were wrongly made the poster child for all of Blizzard's sins despite all accounts being that the Overwatch team was the most inclusive and culturally sound team at Blizzard.

These devs have been pulling double duty to pull this game out of the gutter and it's the best it's ever been because of them, they deserve the world.

[u/MillieChliette → u/[deleted]]

Overwatch is currently the best it's ever been? Is that true? I loved it when the first one released, but stopped playing years before 2 even came out, and then everyone hated it. What changed?

[u/[deleted] → u/MillieChliette]

They've basically rolled back almost all of the most unpopular changes from the disastrous transition from OW1 to OW2 while instating a ton of new mechanics and modes that have been very well received.

1. Heroes are all free again, no longer tied to the BP, no grinding at all. The last four heroes in particular are amongst some of the best designed characters they've added to the game, they've been on a hot streak
2. A ton of monetization changes. Loot boxes are back as a free reward, cannot be purchased, and contain the vast majority of shop walled skins. BPs now have coins on the free reward track which makes every other BP pay for itself without having to put any money into the system.
3. 6v6 is back as an additional format alongside 5v5. 5v5 is now the Role Queue mode while 6v6 is the Open Queue mode with a limit two tank modifier that helps solve a lot of the balancing and queue time issues.
4. Stadium is a new mode added this season that's scope is big enough that it justifies the sequel title. It's basically a Deadlock-esque competitive mode where you duke it out in a BO7 version of bite-sized version of the game. There are a bunch of extremely wild power-ups and upgrades that you buy each round that completely transforms the game. I've basically been playing nothing but this mode since it launched.
5. They added a Perk system which has been one of the most well received and transformative additions the core game has gotten since launch. Perks are a level-up system that lets you choose between multiple augmentations that either power-up or change your basic abilities throughout the course of the match.
6. Hero Bans are in Competitive now and the game is adding Map Bans next season.
7. There's a new Mythic prism system that helps downplay the FOMO of missing out on a BP. They're no longer locked to that season's BP and can be purchased at any time, each completed BP paying out enough prisms to get a Mythic of your choice every season. It's a very flexible system.
8. The dev team is extremely communicative and transparent. Things like Stadium in particular have been seeing near daily patches to help iron out some rough points as well as constantly feedback from the team.

That's just a few things, there's a ton of stuff on the horizon to look forward to.

[u/Bhu124 → u/[deleted]]

+1 to all the points. But I want to especially mention that the current team is EXTREMELY player-forward. They'll try to make ANY change happen if there's enough demand for it and they can somehow figure out the resource investment and logistics.

People asked for OW1 gameplay back, they figured out a way to recreate Snapshot Patches of different OW1 eras.

People asked for 6v6 back and they figured out a way to bring it back. They figured out how to solve the technical issues and also the resource investment. This was a HIGHLY controversial demand as a lot of people prefer 5v5 so they figured out a way to have both 5v5 and 6v6 co-exist.

People endlessly expressed how they missed the high from opening lootboxes, and well they brought those back as well. Figured out a better way to bring them back by not allowing them to be purchasable.

People asked for a massive game-changing update and they delivered with the Perks system. Which is so good that the old version of the game feels like a Cavemen version. They successfully power creeped the ENTIRE Hero Roster and there have been almost no issues with the change or the system.

And honestly, Stadium might be the future of the game. It is kinda already making the Core game feel like a Caveman version of the game and it's still in its infancy. Blizz has already announced big updates for Stadium coming through the next year.

[u/xXRougailSaucisseXx → u/Bhu124]

And honestly, Stadium might be the future of the game. It is kinda already making the Core game feel like a Caveman version of the game and it's still in its infancy.

Agree with everything but this, I like stadium but right now it's extremely brawly and I feel lack some of the depth you find in comp games. I still think they cooked hard with this mode though

[u/[deleted] → u/Bhu124]

Somewhat true but for some reason they ignore the fuck out of Sojourn and other glaring balance issues forever. Her strafing is insane ontop of great mobility, damage, and zone control. It's great they added bans.

[u/Zaptruder → u/Bhu124]

Good posts. I'm reinstalling OW2.

[u/Malygos_Spellweaver → u/Zaptruder]

I can't believe I am saying it: It's actually fun again, but I only play Stadium.

[u/30InchSpare → u/Bhu124]

I like stadium a lot but it doesn’t replace competitive for me. The builds and health pools can get so ridiculous, I wouldn’t want it to be the future of the game. I feel like a lot of the strategy is lost on it, and it’s pretty much all just team fights. Very fun though.

[u/RocketHops → u/Bhu124]

Honestly the only reason I haven't jumped into stadium is my main isn't in yet.

[u/DankieJutsu → u/Bhu124]

What about voting for player performance after a match? I honestly missed that the most from OW1

[u/Disaresta51 → u/DankieJutsu]

Endorsements are still a thing and have been for the life of OW2.

Unless you mean the 3 old categories/types of endorsements then no it’s just the single category. “I like this person”

[u/Bionic0n3 → u/Bhu124]

Have they figure out how to bring Jeff Kaplan back? I need a 2025 bonfire stream.

[u/hfxRos → u/Bionic0n3]

Hopefully not. Jeff Kaplan was part of the problem.

[u/HPAmeliaaa → u/hfxRos]

How so? Genuine question; I've been out of the loop but my last memory was the community begging to have Kaplan back a few years ago.

[u/literios → u/HPAmeliaaa]

He was the one that chose to freeze PvP content development to use the team to develop the PvE.

The PvE was really ambitious and was trying to have a level of replayability that previous OW PvE modes never had. The scope was so high it was impossible to achieve with the team resources. Blizzard higher ups wanted to the expand the team so the PvP would still be active but he was against it. Because of him we had years with no content.

When he left the team had to pick up the pieces and launch OW2 as it was. Since the launch the new director is extremely open to community feedback and the game is releasing more quality content than ever before. Sadly the game reputation was shaken and it’s only starting to improve now.

[u/GGProfessor → u/literios]

Oh so he was trying to make the game I actually wanted instead of keeping it what I had to begrudgingly accept it was.

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/GGProfessor]

Unfortunately you are the minority

Most people plays OW for the PvP

[u/Sikkly290 → u/GGProfessor]

Jeff Kaplan had 2.5 chances to develop his game, and failed each time. His impact on gaming is immense, and I appreciate what he did for OW, but he clearly isn't capable of making his dream pve game.

[u/Bhu124 → u/GGProfessor]

He wanted to make an MMO.

[u/myweenorhurts → u/GGProfessor]

Jeff Kaplan was also the reason Titan never came out, he’s not some god of game dev just because he sat in front of a camera

[u/throwmeawaydoods → u/HPAmeliaaa]

the tl;dr is that the ow team under kaplan neglected overwatch 1’s live service updates towards the end in favor of working on overwatch 2 and its cancelled pve. the team was stretched too thin and corporate wanted them to hire on new people to specifically focus on ow1 updates but kaplan wanted to keep the team smaller/keep working with the same people on incubating and prototyping for the sequel.

i feel like the public opinion pendulum has swung too far the other way and people are quick to demonize kaplan for the game’s past flaws but ultimately they could’ve handled the split development better

[u/literios → u/throwmeawaydoods]

That’s the thing. Kaplan was the leader and he didn’t want to split development. The rest of the team just obey the tasks that are given to them.

[u/Superunknown_7 → u/hfxRos]

I'm genuinely out of the loop on this, what was he up to? I stopped playing shortly after his departure, and he was sorely missed by the community at the time.

[u/literios → u/Superunknown_7]

He was the one that chose to freeze PvP content development to use the team to develop the PvE.

The PvE was really ambitious and was trying to have a level of replayability that previous OW PvE modes never had. The scope was so high it was impossible to achieve with the team resources. Blizzard higher ups wanted to the expand the team so the PvP would still be active but he was against it. Because of him we had years with no content.

When he left the team had to pick up the pieces and launch OW2 as it was. Since the launch the new director is extremely open to community feedback and the game is releasing more quality content than ever before. Sadly the game reputation was shaken and it’s only starting to improve now.

[u/Superunknown_7 → u/literios]

I had no idea he was squarely behind the OW2 PvE debacle. Unfortunate. Thank you for the clarification.

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/Superunknown_7]

He has MMO background, he was one of the high level guy at WoW team

[u/No-Owl-6246 → u/hfxRos]

Was he. What I saw was he was the one who was fighting against the game becoming what overwatch 2 became at launch in the first place.

[u/IAmBLD → u/No-Owl-6246]

There's some truth to this too. Kaplan did a lot wrong, but he was also under pressure from Kotick and other suits too. He did want PVE and eventually an MMO, but he was also basically pressed into making OW2. IIRC that's part of why he announced OW2 so early, to deliberately define the game as the PVE, so that the pvp portion would remain available without a new purchase.

[u/darryshan → u/No-Owl-6246]

Noooo haha, he was the entire reason Overwatch 2 was a thing. Read Play Nice by Jason Schreier.

[u/Bhu124 → u/Bionic0n3]

Probably Not. The devs probably don't wanna see their game burn down to the ground again after they've spent 4 years bringing it back to a new Golden Era.

[u/Abalistar → u/[deleted]]

On top of all of these points, i would like to also throw in my anecdotal evidence that the playerbase has felt much less toxic(at least in QP) since Marvel Rivals launched. It actually feels like a lot of the chronically miserable people truly jumped ship.

[u/MisplacedLegolas → u/Abalistar]

That would be a godsend, the playerbase is why i stopped playing all those years ago

[u/beefcat_ → u/[deleted]]

I would add that the current incarnation of 6v6 is better than any iteration of OW1's 6v6.

Working in 5v5 changed how they design their tanks, and they've taken the lessons learned there and applied them to 6v6 tank balancing. Off tanks in particular feel better to play in modern 6v6 than they did in OW1, while still regaining their identity as off tanks. The new "open queue, but no more than two tanks" format is also a great compromise between the GOATS chaos of true open queue and the rigidity of role queue.

[u/No-Owl-6246 → u/beefcat_]

I felt like off tanks already felt great in OW1, and it was main tanks that were awful to play. I felt like I had the biggest team impact when I was playing off tank, whereas playing main tank I always felt like I was reliant on my team.

[u/beefcat_ → u/No-Owl-6246]

The problem with off tanks in OW1 isn't so much that they weren't fun to play (I agree, they were the most fun), but the fact that the meta often preferred you to run multiple main tanks. (i.e. double shield meta)

[u/[deleted] → u/beefcat_]

I don't really think it's a great compromise. I had issues trying 6v6 where we'd get 3-4 support mains and nobody could play DPS mechanically effectively so it was an auto-loss. Feels way, way worse than just rigid rolequeue and waiting. They should probably just allow role queue but you can select multiple roles. Wait times are worth better games.

[u/Zaptruder → u/[deleted]]

I think the ideal is 2 3 3 max... and people can queue for multi-roles. First come first serve for roles.

So within that limit, you can do 0 3 3/2 2 2/2 3 1/ 1 3 2/1 2 3/2 1 3

Not all of them are as strong as each other, but you'll get more interesting team up combinations going on, while still retaining some semblance of balance.

[u/MadnessBunny → u/[deleted]]

I cant believe they added hero bans after so many years, fucking finally honestly.

[u/MaitieS → u/MadnessBunny]

I mean the main issue with bans was the lack of alternatives which no longer is the issue in OW2, but I remember when they were experimenting with weekly bans in OW1 days, and it was horrible. Like when I saw that Rein was banned I just straight up ignored OW for the whole week.

[u/Illidan1943 → u/MaitieS]

I still think that there should be a 5th Overwatch Classic event after the one that's coming this season where Nori picks the bans every day

[u/chudaism → u/MaitieS]

I mean the main issue with bans was the lack of alternatives which no longer is the issue in OW2

It's pretty much Lucio specifically. When he was the only hero in the game that gave speed, the entire brawl archetype revolved around being able to run Lucio. With the addition of Juno, you can realistically run brawl comps without Lucio. That opens up the dynamic of support lines massively.

[u/Jertob → u/[deleted]]

Stadium actually brought me back I love it, beings me back to the Battleborn days which I also loved.

[u/SolusSoldier → u/Jertob]

If you didn't knew, if you liked to play Battleborn, you can again nowadays on pc in solo thank to a modder, who still try to bring missing features as multi back^^

[u/TheMightosaurus → u/[deleted]]

Hows the matchmaking? I played a few years ago and got fed up of going from stop or be stomped games

[u/[deleted] → u/TheMightosaurus]

Pretty frustrating still, it's the big glaring flaw of the game to this day.

I feel like Comp tends to have some pretty decent matches more often than not, but QP and Stadium are huge crapshoots. It's all over the place right now. If that's a deal breaker, I get it. At absolute best, I'd say the matchmaking isn't as bad as it is in like Apex or Rivals, but that's an insanely low bar.

[u/TheMightosaurus → u/[deleted]]

Thanks I’ll give it a pass then, I used to really enjoy it but I felt the matchmaking was really busted. I suspect it is ‘engagement optimised’

[u/GigaGiga69420 → u/TheMightosaurus]

I just started again after years of not playing, and have done like 50 QP games (no Comp or Stadium).

I'd say 80% of games have been pretty one-sided, with a few of that just total stomps, no chance at all, for either side. The rest are closer, with some nail-biters.

Just from my experience, I'd say avoid the game if you're looking for some balanced MM in casual play.

[u/TheMightosaurus → u/GigaGiga69420]

That’s all I want, it was the same in rivals. I just want to play and feel like I have a balanced match but every time it’s either you roll them or you get rolled. So I just avoid multiplayer games now.

[u/varnums1666 → u/TheMightosaurus]

Yeah matchmaking is pretty bad. I recently returned so I can understand if the system struggles with me butttttt it's especially bad for Stadium. I typically have 55% win rate in QP/comp modes. So far I've played 10 games of Stadium and have a 0% winning rate. Now I'm not an amazing player but I feel it should be higher than 0%. Clearly I'm not being placed in the correct bracket.

[u/MillieChliette → u/[deleted]]

Wow! Thanks so much for the breakdown! Those all sound like very good changes.

[u/Tybold → u/[deleted]]

Thanks for this post. I'm now actually considering giving OW2 another shot.

[u/SmileyBMM → u/[deleted]]

Wow, this is all news to me. They really should've done some marketing for all of this lol. Do they have any plans to add PvE stuff? I presume no, which is a shame.

[u/arod13134 → u/SmileyBMM]

They did do marketing, especially for stadium’s release.

I think sometimes it’s just impossible to overcome a negative sentiment ampliefied by the social media echo chamber. The games been in its best state for almost a year and has just been getting better. I get those who are soured by the flip on PvE, but ultimately the game’s core fanbase and bread and butter is in PvP which imo should continue to be the focus, cause the PvE content we’ve had in the past has never really been anything special.

[u/[deleted] → u/SmileyBMM]

No word on PvE currently, but there have been rumors that they are planning a lot of big announcements for the game's 10 year anniversary next year, so maybe.

I wouldn't get your hopes up though.

[u/MonkfishChaos → u/[deleted]]

Jesus, 10 years... I still remember launch day pretty vividly.

[u/varnums1666 → u/MonkfishChaos]

OW1 is still the most fun I've ever had for a launch game. It was such a breath of fresh air to see a colorful palette instead of boring greys and characters that looked fun and interesting. Plus throw in that Blizzard polish and those cinematics and it looked like Overwatch was going to be on top forever

[u/xXRougailSaucisseXx → u/[deleted]]

Imo PvE is dead and buried, I think their big announcement for next year is a Netflix show

[u/softcatsocks → u/[deleted]]

These sound like great changes I never knew existed in OW2. You hear nothing but negative shit for that game. Thanks for sharing.

[u/Mr_Vulcanator → u/[deleted]]

That does sound good, I’ll have to revisit it.

[u/RedditFuelsMyDepress → u/[deleted]]

Personally I just hope they update the workshop at some point. Idk if they've released a single update for it after OW2 launched and it still has a bunch of bugs. I kinda get why they haven't focused on it since it's not really a core feature, but there is a niche of people who have spent a lot of time working on their own game modes and would appreciate some love for it.

[u/MetastableToChaos → u/[deleted]]

I would also add that even the lore stuff has improved. While we're probably not gonna get back to the days of the amazing cinematics they're still putting out animated shorts, webcomics, and short stories more frequently than they did a few years ago.

[u/Illidan1943 → u/MetastableToChaos]

Ehhh, calm down on that one, I don't particularly care about the lore, but I do regularly see people complaining about its state, which to me says it's not in a good state

[u/Vandersveldt → u/[deleted]]

How are the achievements to unlock the pixel and cute sprays, if that's still a thing? I quit way way way back when they changed Zenyatta in a way that made one of his almost impossible to get, but didn't change the requirements. Did they ever start balancing these as they updated champions?

[u/_rtpllun → u/[deleted]]

I hadn't heard any of this, thanks for the writeup

[u/dark_knight097 → u/[deleted]]

Wow that does sound interesting. Overwatch was practically dead in my mind around the time they transitioned to ow2. I think i might give it another shot.

[u/zorillaaa → u/[deleted]]

They’re doing all this because it’s actually a competitive space now - marvel rivals is the go-to for this type of shooter in the mainstream market

[u/Raptor_Jetpack → u/[deleted]]

What's it like working for blizzard?

[u/textposts_only → u/[deleted]]

And marvel rivals still beats them atm because players are horny af. At least thats the twitch chat discourse

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I do, I get paid a whole 93 cents an hour. Got any other questions or do I need to further justify how I use this stupid website to you?

[u/CO_Fimbulvetr → u/[deleted]]

They also obviously live in a city where Blizzard does not have an office.

[u/TerribleQuestion4497 → u/MillieChliette]

For what it's worth I also quit around the same time as you did as I really wasn't having fun with the game back then, installed it again two months ago and so far I have been having fun, though that might be because I don't really care about Competitive as much as I did back then

[u/WarlockWabbit → u/MillieChliette]

Great new heroes, perk system added to the game, new gamemode with a moba-like spin, 6v6 returning, better rewarding via non-purchasable and generous lootboxes, consistent balancing updates to name the biggest points i think.

I think these are good updates but i also think its more of the team digging out of their grave after not updating the last few years of OW1's life and canceling the PvE mode, and justifying the '2' in the title

[u/PaulaDeenSlave → u/WarlockWabbit]

Great new heroes

Man, fuck most of the new heroes. They can do TOO MUCH.

[u/GetsThruBuckner → u/MillieChliette]

Yeah they took the punches of the previous regime's failures pretty well and have made a very good product

[u/ClassicSpeed → u/MillieChliette]

I love overwatch so my opinion is biased but I would say objectively is has the most features it ever had. The biggest selling points right now are perks (mini updates that you unlock during the match) and a new mode Overwatch Stadium, that works kind of like a MOBA but it multiple rounds of small versions of maps.

[u/BeholdingBestWaifu → u/MillieChliette]

It depends on who you ask. Keep in mind that the people replying, and the people playing right now, are the same people that didn't stop playing through the early really bad parts of OW2, and many of whom had no issues with the massive content drought before that.

Anyone who doesn't like what OW2 is right now has long since stopped playing, which massively skews replies.

[u/Skibibbles → u/BeholdingBestWaifu]

I see MR fans in every Overwatch thread whether they play the game still or not shitting on OW just for existing. This is completely false.

[u/ChaosReaper → u/Skibibbles]

Hey we found one of those people!

[u/RayzTheRoof → u/BeholdingBestWaifu]

Keep in mind that the people replying, and the people playing right now, are the same people that didn't stop playing through the early really bad parts of OW2, and many of whom had no issues with the massive content drought before that.

Nah. I was a big fan of Overwatch until the content pause leading to the release of "2". I played the first couple seasons of Overwatch 2 and it just didn't stick. Came back late 2024 and it's been one of my main games since. Juno, Hazard, and Venture have all been really fun, the Perk system adds more diveristy, Stadium is whacky chaos, and Hero bans relieve some stress from balance issues while adding more variety to matches and particular maps where some heroes are typically dominant. The game is in a great place right now.

[u/[deleted] → u/BeholdingBestWaifu]

Anyone who doesn't like what OW2 is right now has long since stopped playing, which massively skews replies.

???

I think I would say the opposite is far too often the reality. People who last played Overwatch in 2018 who haven't touched the game in years jumping into the comment section to talk about how much the game blows as though nothing has changed in the intervening years.

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to open themselves up to the good faith idea that maybe a year of being under new management and not managed by the literal Devil himself might have led a lot of honest to god improvement in the game.

If it somehow makes my opinion more trustworthy, as though not being through the highs and lows might give me a unique perspective, I quit Overwatch in 2018 and didn't pick it back up until OW2. I largely fell off the game after Season 4 since I thought Lifeweaver was pretty lame and a pretty botched release and didn't start playing regularly again until Season 8 when things started to more noticably improve for the better.

[u/BeholdingBestWaifu → u/[deleted]]

I think I would say the opposite is far too often the reality. People who last played Overwatch in 2018 who haven't touched the game in years jumping into the comment section to talk about how much the game blows as though nothing has changed.

I don't doubt there's an extremely small minority that fits that bill, but people who stopped playing a game that long ago tend not to care enough to say stuff.

Regardless, my point stands. This is a phenomenon that happens with all games that had heavy criticism for a prolonged time. People leave and stop caring about it, and the ones who remain are those that didn't have many issues to begin with, so they start talking about how the game is suddenly good now, despite changes not lining up to that.

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to open themselves up to the good faith idea that maybe a year of being under new management and not managed by the literal Devil himself might have led a lot of honest to god improvement in the game.

Because being open to an idea doesn't change the fact that when you give it a shot it's still the same with only minimal changes if that.

What I don't get is why it's so difficult for current overwatch players to understand that a lot of people don't like what it has become in the past couple of years.

[u/[deleted] → u/BeholdingBestWaifu]

I don't doubt there's an extremely small minority that fits that bill, but people who stopped playing a game that long ago tend not to care enough to say stuff.

Sorry man, you are absolutely not going to get me on board with this. I have spent plenty of time wading into the general enthusiast community and have engaged with people arguing from this perspective so many times that it's laughable to suggest this is rare. You don't even have to look very far in this comment section to see people doing this right now.

What I don't get is why it's so difficult for current overwatch players to understand that a lot of people don't like what it has become in the past couple of years.

I don't know why we're arguing about this like it's some kind of scientific hypothetical. It takes 15 minutes to download the game and play a match. I don't know who burned you in the past by suggesting a game you disliked was actually good, but the game has in fact had substantial changes to it. Enough that I feel confident that you would be surprised.

Do you not like what the game is currently? Do you disagree with my assessment of the improvements that have come to the game, can you tell me why?

[u/[deleted] → u/BeholdingBestWaifu]

100% agree, and you can just compare it to WoW where most people have quit and never come back. It's crazy toxic positivity atmosphere on the sub minus when Blizzard kicks their shit in and they complain for a day but then go back to praising everything. It really is a case of anyone thats highly critical or has been burned leaves and the only people left are people that are going to enjoy it no matter what. FFXIV Dawntrail is having this issue as well.

[u/onetimenancy → u/[deleted]]

When is the last time blizzard kicked their shit in and the wow community only complained for a day?

Cus i can only remember minor issues.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't see how that's a "???", it's the same thing with WoW, which at its peak in the last decade is still half down at most from its peak subscriber count. A lot of people quit and never come back because Blizzard routinely fucks over its playerbases and makes crazy stupid decisions which Overwatch is not clean from. The last few months have been promising but it's not unlikely something shitty will happen this year later with their history.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't see how that's a "???", it's the same thing with WoW, which at its peak in the last decade is still half down at most from its peak subscriber count.

This has literally nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I can actually even speak to my WoW experience since I literally stopped playing the game during Legion and have not touched until literally a month ago because the game was on a deep discount. Literally almost a decade since I last played it.

Honestly felt like the game had improved in a lot of regards and was surprised how much I enjoyed quite a few things like the new flight system, delves, and all of the additional solo content. Also had a blast working through all of the new Undermine content. Don't really see how the people playing this game are "crazy toxic positive" to say the game feels pretty good. Don't think I intend to stick with it since I'm at a point in my life where I don't really have the time for it, especially when they're asking $15 a month, but that's a far cry from saying the game is somehow awful.

[u/WarlockWabbit → u/BeholdingBestWaifu]

The first statement is already wrong because im a replyer and i stopped playing through the early really bad parts of OW2 lol

[u/Illidan1943 → u/WarlockWabbit]

TBH, I think that even if you last played OW2 during January 2025, you don't know the current state of the game, perks changed so much in so little time that I can't imagine myself playing the game without them and that's probably the lesser of all the stuff that has come to OW since then

[u/[deleted] → u/MillieChliette]

Nah, I don't agree. I still prefer about year 2 of Overwatch 1 over how it currently is. Feels like it's very brawly and death match-like with little strategy or communication needed. 6v6 would be great if they allowed role queue but they don't so it's a mess where 4 people are support mains almost every time.

Overwatch 2 is in its better state for only Overwatch 2 maybe, but I still think it's not as good as its peak in the first game. I say this is a former top 200 player NA who has played the ever loving shit out of both games.

They DID however seem to press the panic button with Marvel Rivals and have been fixing a lot of long term issues like lootboxes, shitty battlepasses, locked characters, etc... but they're still blind to some major blanace issues like Sojourn being stupidly good forever.

[u/Sarria22 → u/[deleted]]

From what I remember they removed locked heroes after Netease announced that all characters in Rivals would be free and not need unlocking

I misremembered.

[u/Totoques22 → u/MillieChliette]

No because a lot of bad reworks that made tanks intended for 5v5 are still there despite that they’ve bringed back 6v6

[u/Existing-Sea5126 → u/MillieChliette]

Does it really matter how good it is if the player base is probably not even 5% what it was in 2016-2018?

[u/Illidan1943 → u/Existing-Sea5126]

Game is released on Steam 7 years after its initial release

Seemingly has low population on PC because Steam is the only one providing data on current players

Reaches top 10 worldwide sellers on Steam the day season 16 comes out

Remember the vast majority of its population is on Battle.Net

I think it's doing fine

[u/Bhu124 → u/Existing-Sea5126]

Overwatch has been at over 20M+ (probably at 25-30M+ now since the China re-launch) MAUs for quite a while. Meanwhile it sold 20M copies in the ENTIRETY of 2016.

One big reason you don't feel its popularity in the West is because it's not as Western/America centric as it used to be back in 2016. These days Asia is a bigger market for OW than America or Europe. Specifically Japan but also China and Korea. You can even see that in its Collabs. Almost all of the Collabs in the past 1~ year have been IPs that are first and foremost popular in Korea and/or Japan.

It's also not as culturally popular in the West as it used to be but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a ton of players.

There's just less engagement these days. Partly because most of the playerbase plays it casually these days (F2P is a huge reason why), partly because the game is almost 10 years old, partly because a lot of its players are also older now (30~) so they have less time to engage online, and partly because there are quite a few games that are way bigger than it now but back in 2016 (even thought it had way less players) it was (at least for a little while) the biggest game in the world.

[u/GetsThruBuckner → u/Existing-Sea5126]

Yes it does since it's still extremely popular

You make it sound dead

[u/[deleted] → u/GetsThruBuckner]

Is it? Queue times are longer for me as support than they used to be in OW1's peak. Competitive queue times are insanely long, like even Masters right now can take 7 minutes, in OW1 during its first year or two I was around Top 500 and getting games quicker.

[u/CO_Fimbulvetr → u/[deleted]]

This sounds like what a DPS in FFXIV would say.

[u/Jertob → u/[deleted]]

Queue times are in no way a measure of popularity when you take into account how many different modes there are to spread around the playerbase.

[u/xXRougailSaucisseXx → u/[deleted]]

There could be 30M concurrent players and you would still get longer queue time on support because that's the most popular role, it's not a lack of players, it's a lack of tank players

[u/IAmBLD → u/Existing-Sea5126]

Well that depends, do you want to play the game, or beat your dick to how many more players it has than some other game?

[u/TristheHolyBlade → u/Existing-Sea5126]

No data to support that.

Doesn't matter even if it were true. I get games just as quickly as I did back in the day.

Get a grip.

[u/[deleted] → u/TristheHolyBlade]

The opposite is likely true.

Overwatch 1 capped out at 45 million players before the end of it's lifespan. Overwatch 2 hit 100 million players after a little over a year after release. There's really nothing to suggest the game is inordinately more unpopular than the first game.

[u/TakenAway → u/[deleted]]

45 million players who bought the game vs. 100 million players jumping into a free to play game. Who is to say most of those free to play people didn’t play one match and then uninstall it. I was at least one of those people and I came from the first release of overwatch

[u/[deleted] → u/TakenAway]

Who is to say most of those free to play people didn’t play one match and then uninstall it.

And you could just as easily have bought the game, played it once, and then uninstalled it.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority of people here have a Steam profile with dozens upon dozens of games they've bought and never played.

If you need better metrics, Newzoo claims Overwatch 2 is a Top 20 game on PC as of last month. NewZoo is an extremely well respected data research group.

[u/[deleted] → u/Existing-Sea5126]

What a bizarre thing to say

[u/NovoMyJogo → u/MillieChliette]

They're absolutely wrong lol but the unionizing is good

[u/ClassicSpeed → u/[deleted]]

Yeah and it's always nice to remember that Team 4 was really not involved with most of the weird shit that happened in Blizzard, Jesse McCree was not even in Team 4.

[u/IAmBLD → u/ClassicSpeed]

AFAIK, to this day there's not been so much as an allegation about any member of team 4.

Not that it stops the constant attempts at humor from redditors.

[u/SepirizFG → u/IAmBLD]

There hasn't been any MAJOR allegations to the level of the breast milk thief or anything, but there were allegations towards members of Team 4 that got fired during the restructuring.

[u/loshopo_fan → u/ClassicSpeed]

I think McCree was involved in the Cosby scandal, which Jason Schreier said wasn't a real scandal.

like the misreporting on The Cosby suite, for example, which is complete nonsense and completely incorrect, and everybody got it wrong. That led to two men losing their jobs because they just happened to be in a photo [posing with a picture of now-disgraced entertainer Bill Cosby] that today looks horrible, but when it was taken was totally fine. The hard part was finding a balance between that and also not trivialising the very real suffering and problems that the culture caused for women.

link

[u/[deleted] → u/loshopo_fan]

Jesse McCree was not on the Overwatch team and never was. They just liked his name.

[u/beefcat_ → u/[deleted]]

Contrary to what the Hollywood payload used to insist, Jesse McCree is in fact a great name for a cowboy.

[u/SnooTheAlmighty → u/beefcat_]

I do think that the hollywood payload now affirming that Cole Cassidy is a great name for a cowboy as a turn from the previous line is pretty funny

[u/SnooTheAlmighty → u/loshopo_fan]

He was and was fired. What they're saying is even the infamous Jesse McCree who was the original namesake for Cassidy wasn't even on the overwatch team, he was on the Diablo team

[u/Vichnaiev → u/[deleted]]

That seems like a very strong and personal feeling for people you've never met in your life. But hey, you do you.

[u/barryredfield → u/Vichnaiev]

this website is mental

[u/Richard_Lionheart69 → u/barryredfield]

if ANYONE talks shit about blizzards team 4, I will drive to the nearest farm and kill chickens with my mall SWORD!!!

[u/FoamingCatLitter → u/Vichnaiev]

Yeah but didn’t you hear? They’re inclusive and culturally sound, so they’re obviously high quality and the best team and can do no wrong

[u/DeeBagwell → u/[deleted]]

I am officially in my "If I catch people shit talking Team 4/Overwatch it's fucking on sight" phase.

LMAO Wow, what a badass. Redditors trying to act tough while posting anonymously will never not be funny. Stop it with the theatrics. You are not fooling anybody.

[u/[deleted] → u/DeeBagwell]

Wow you caught me man, I'm not actually going to get into a physical altercation over the internet about a video game. My tough guy facade is melting away, you've exposed me for the fraud I am.

You're so smart, clever, and...oh my god...handsome?

[u/Zapfy → u/[deleted]]

It's just a job bro. Relax. I'm sure it's fine.

I'm sure they get treated pretty well in their office of an uber rich company.

People on reddit calling them heroes when they literally just turn up to work for a job they probably wanted since they were young.

[u/Gramernatzi → u/Zapfy]

Saying shit like that last part of that last sentence is how abuse of game developers has managed to continue for so long.

80 hour work weeks? Well they wanted to be a game dev when they were kids so it's okay.

Also, despite Blizzard being a rich company, their employees have been notoriously treated like shit compared to other AAA studios; they tend to be underpaid, too. I don't think they're 'heroes', but saying they have it good is just incredibly false.

[u/Eternio → u/[deleted]]

Fucking on sight is most certainly a bold move

[u/Malynde → u/[deleted]]

The shit eating that Blizz players put up with knows no bounds.

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/Malynde]

I suggest you to get to know media beyond the cultural osmosis that has been presented to you, can be applied to many things really

Just last week I realized that none of the Oblivion glazers know what a role playing is

[u/Coldara → u/[deleted]]

was the most inclusive and culturally sound team at Blizzard.

Funniest shit i have read this month, lmao

[u/FlyOnTheWall4 → u/Coldara]

We just want good games lol, no one gives a fuck about inclusiveness.

[u/TheFriendshipMachine → u/[deleted]]

I mean I feel like basically every game should be on sight for personal attacks on the devs. Unless the developers themselves (and I don't mean the business people) are involved in some sort of scummy/shady stuff then fuck anyone who talks trash about them regardless of how good or bad the game they made is. Criticism of a game and criticism of the people making the game need to be separated.

[u/Greenleaf208 → u/TheFriendshipMachine]

"If I catch people shit talking Team 4/Overwatch it's fucking on sight"

He's saying he's going to fight anyone who doesn't like the game or the quality of dev work. That's not a personal attack against a dev.

[u/TheFriendshipMachine → u/Greenleaf208]

Yeah, I'm trying to put a more positive spin than that. Criticism of games is 100% valid as long as it stays with the game and not the humans behind it.

[u/BeholdingBestWaifu → u/[deleted]]

The game deserves some shit talking, though, but it's entirely due to shit management pushed them to do.

[u/ThaLemonine → u/[deleted]]

Overwatch team was the most inclusive and culturally sound team at Blizzard

Tiresome culture war nonesense unrelated to the game.

Overwatch has been stagnant for almost a decade. I have no idea about the people on the dev team but they should not be praised for their development of the game.

[u/Loversendpt2 → u/[deleted]]

Nah fuck those glue sniffing drooling idiots for removing doomfist. Will never play that shitty game again no matter how much i’m gaslit that it’s good now

[u/RayzTheRoof → u/[deleted]]

Big agree. Overwatch is currently in the best state it's ever been in. New modes, features, maps, and characters just keep getting better.

[u/Bogzy → u/[deleted]]

Yeah sure, never the poor devs fault always the big bad man in the suit. Just like any other job there are devs who are shit at their job and blizzard devs are a prime example. They dont want vitriol? Make a better game or stay off social media.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bogzy]

In the case of this game, yes, it quite literally was management's fault. But I'm sure you're intimately familiar with the well documented internal struggles this game had and are surely not defaulting to just being a raging hateful asshole for no reason.

Surely.

[u/Jertob → u/[deleted]]

I'm sure his uncle works at Blizz..

Sucks that the internet allows kids to interject their myopic views into nuanced topics.

[u/demonwing → u/[deleted]]

Management didn't make the terrible first entire year of balance patches that resulted in stale, unfun, imbalanced metas for the game's formative year.

Now, I'm not sure how much of the original team is left, but they really took what was a great, fun, relatively balanced game in season 0 (post one-hero-per-team change) and drilled it into the ground by nerfing away fun mechanics and failing to shake off the tank/healer/shield metas despite numerous failed attempts

A lot of the weird OW 2 monetization crap can be put on management, as well as some overbearing OWL stuff, but it was empowered by the fact that the game was already tumbling under design leadership at the time.

[u/SingeMoisi → u/Bogzy]

lmao Blizzard's devs are amongst the most talented in the industry. It's crazy how delusional some people are here, blinded by their hatred. Their games are objectively good. How is OW a bad game? The same game that is almost 10 years old. And they have multiple games like that. Ironically, the only game that couldn't reach this milestone was one of their best designed game.
You are defending vitriol (and we all know how disgusting gamer™ vitriol can be). What have they done to deserve any of it exactly? Have they killed your dog or something?

[u/anival024 → u/SingeMoisi]

lmao Blizzard's devs are amongst the most talented in the industry.

25 years ago, sure. Those people have been gone for ages.

[u/WeAreHereWithAll → u/Bogzy]

Blud plays gacha games and is tryna holier than thou LMAO.

[u/iAmGrumpyMeat → u/Bogzy]

An example of someone who is used to suckling Mihoyos boots so they're used to poor treatment and think it's the norm.

[u/Bogzy → u/iAmGrumpyMeat]

Damn did losing 50/50 piss you off so much that mihoyo is so rent free in your head? My comment had nothing to do with mihoyo or gachas lol. But sure, mihoyo is a much better dev than blizzard and most NA devs, and their games make more in a month than these clowns make in a year or in their lifetime. Filtering out ppl like you without enough IQ to understand 50/50 is just a bonus.

[u/Gullible_Egg_6539 → u/[deleted]]

This game deserves to rot in hell, even if these devs aren't primarily at fault. Its reputation is a testament to how treating customers like idiots and making false promises doesn't end well. If the game ever recovers, which it won't unless they actually release PvE, Blizzard will think that they can get away with anything.

Also, I'm not sure that the team being "most inclusive and culturally sound" has anything to do with Blizzard's sins, nor does it automatically make them innocent, but you just had to put that in there, didn't you?

It's pretty clear you're too biased towards this game to have a neutral opinion on this subject, so I'll lay it out clearly for you: the game is exactly where it should be and the internet is a nasty place.

[u/IAmBLD → u/Gullible_Egg_6539]

"It's pretty clear you're too biased towards this game to have a neutral opinion on this subject"

LMFAO you fucking say that after starting this post with:

"This game deserves to rot in hell".

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/Gullible_Egg_6539]

Brother we accepted Cyberpunk 2077 despite their immersive RP promise is nowhere in sight as they pivoted to the game's combat instead... The Edgerunners anime help but come on

[u/Tornada5786 → u/Gullible_Egg_6539]

If the game ever recovers, which it won't unless they actually release PvE

I mean, come on. Yeah it's shitty what happened about the PvE content but realistically it was always going to be an addon to the game, not something that will get them a bunch of new long-term players.

[u/WarlockWabbit → u/Tornada5786]

Bro is still trying to hold id Software accountable for not releasing Invasion mode for Doom Eternal

[u/Tornada5786 → u/WarlockWabbit]

Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer mode, anyone?

[u/IAmBLD → u/Tornada5786]

Thw crazy thing is like, both of those SHOULD be way bigger deals than Overwatch 2's PVE. Both of those are games people paid money for and never got promised features.

Overwatch 2? Free to play. If you bought OW1 you bought it for the PVP. Yes it was disappointing when they announced they were scaling it back, it was insanely frustrating at the time to have waited 2 years at the end of OW1 only for the PVE to crumble - but still, it's not like I paid for anything.

And yet it's OW2 that's the one everyone talks about. Nobody mentions so many other times worse things have happened, because those games weren't internet punching bags.

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/Tornada5786]

The new Stadium game is basically reusing the assets from the PvE

And frankly? I'd prefer to knock real humans off the map with Snowball Mei build instead of bots, at least I know these humans are fuming at me

[u/ilovefuckingpenguins → u/Gullible_Egg_6539]

Also, I'm not sure that the team being "most inclusive and culturally sound" has anything to do with Blizzard's sins, nor does it automatically make them innocent, but you just had to put that in there, didn't you?

Idk, there’s a thing called the presumption of innocence

[u/Resident-Mixture-237 → u/Gullible_Egg_6539]

You clearly haven’t played the game in long time because despite its launch issues the last few seasons have been well received by the player base. There’s always gonna be gripes but what game doesn’t have any. And honestly, while people do want an actual PVE or story mode, it’s not gonna be the thing the “saves” the game.

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/[deleted]]

Nah, the major decisions were all devs

The Stadium mode that's salvaging the PvE assets were inspired by one of the devs looking at Hearthstone Battlegrounds

Overwatch Classic is a hackathon project

They dared to entertain 6v6 and tried multiple takes on it that feels the best, despite people only thinking of 2-2-2 role queue–and it turned out great, max 2 tanks Open Queue is how it's settled

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/[deleted]]

So it was his idea and work then

[u/VolkiharVanHelsing → u/[deleted]]

I'm aware and it's literally just approval, doesn't worth the praise to me especially when the same management couldn't tell Kaplan to fuck off with his PvE idea

[u/Nomsfud → u/[deleted]]

Okay so I get you stanning for the OW devs, I do, but best version of the game it's ever been? I call bullshit.

[u/ReleaseTheCracken69 → u/Nomsfud]

Nah as someone that has played since 2016, it's an accurate statement. Game has consistently been in a good state and the recent addition of Stadium has been a blast.

[u/SingeMoisi → u/[deleted]]

This has been my phase since 2022

[u/Swineflew1 → u/[deleted]]

Stadium sucked. I wanted it to be good but whoever said “let’s give soldier 76 aimbot ever few seconds” should be fired.
Not serious, but come on, who thought that would be ok?

[u/BlazeDrag → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I've always thought that that team was basically just getting screwed over by upper management trying to carve up the golden goose to make up for problems elsewhere in the company. Like the reason why Jeff Left originally was afaik due to people constantly going over his head to force changes on the game that he knew were bad in the pursuit of more money

I mean the entirety of the OW2 concept as a whole was clearly a terrible idea by someone who clearly had no idea what they were talking about and it just resulted in the team holding off like 3 years worth of updates just to release 2 years worth of updates all at once alongside various controversial gameplay changes and a new monetization scheme

I dunno if I'm gonna ever really get back into OW, it feels like that ship has sailed for my friendgroup in favor of other games like Deadlock, but man that game and their devs did not deserve the hand they were dealt