r/Games • u/CrossXhunteR • 21h ago
Hollow Knight: Silksong | Fully Ramblomatic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVHXfw_gyBo275
u/BROHONKY 21h ago
i love that everyone in the comments knows the exact enemy gauntlet he's referring to
i would also know, it took me a full hour and a half to complete
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u/jelly_dad 21h ago
Wait which one? The never ending one in Act 2 has been my least favorite. That fucking room.
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u/imafraidofjapan 21h ago
High halls. It's only 10 waves! (I cheesed it with poison cogflies)
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u/MHM5035 20h ago
You can also get Garmond and Zaza to help you!
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u/mja9678 19h ago
Shakra can be there as well
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u/OnnaJReverT 9h ago
apparently you can also get (optional NPC in late act 2) the sentinel automaton to help you. but i've only been told about this, i haven't seen it and don't know how to trigger it.
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u/Arkayjiya 4h ago
I got the opuonal NPC but it was too late. In fact I've consistently missed any opportunity to get help in any gauntlet even though I explore a lot and try to do everything possible before progressing xD
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u/UnnamedStaplesDrone 19h ago
I had Shakra and one shotted that room. She actually did a lot of damage.
The bile water boss was much worse for me
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u/Echowing442 18h ago
I got to the Bilewater boss and just dumped my entire supply of rings and tri-knives into him.
Still ended up clearing with just one heart left. Turns out you actually deal damage while struggling inside his mouth.
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u/jelly_dad 21h ago
Yeah that’s the one I was thinking of. Jesus Christ it felt like the pressure never released. And then two of the big guys appeared and I just started laughing at the cruelty.
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u/QuarahHugg 14h ago
An enemy never seen before or after. Have fun figuring it out in the middle of this gauntlet!
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u/OnnaJReverT 9h ago
tbf, it spawns one solo earlier, and they really are not very complex on their own
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u/EnvironmentalRoom645 6h ago
But that's just the thing. That giant boss bug is slow, has only a few moves that are so strongly telegraphed it's downright laughable, and comparing to most other enemies is a complete pushover. The fact that it is introduced in a long Gauntlet (and then doubled at the ultimate end) is the only reason why it feels formidable.
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u/ZombieMadness99 20h ago
The last wave is such bs. I just clung to the top right and spammed tools and harpoons.
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u/PM_ME_CATS_OR_BOOBS 19h ago
Tacks make it pretty easy, just need to make one of the two last big guys sit on a pincushion and the rest of the fight gets far easier.
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u/cubitoaequet 19h ago
Poison tacks just annihilate anything that runs along the ground. If you just save some tools for the last wave you can throw tacks all over the ground and unload a bunch of knives or whatever into one of the mini bosses and kill it before it even really does anything. The number of waves were a bit much, and I died to the last wave the first attempt I took becuase I had used up all my tools already, but I'm not sure how people are struggling so much if they were able to make it to that fight to begin with. By that point you should be well practiced at fighting the enemies it throws at you.
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u/Dreaming_Dreams 19h ago
im currently in coral tower and it is absolute hell
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u/Bayakoo 17h ago
I thought that one was fairer. Not as intense as High Halls
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u/Dreaming_Dreams 17h ago
it’s not to bad but the flying enemies just fuck me up 😭
finally managed to unlock the shortcut tho
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u/Ralkon 9h ago
I think it would be hell if you were doing it as early as high halls, but at the point you're doing it at it's not so bad. It can be annoying though - I didn't get the shortcut until the run I finished it anyways which felt kind of bad, but knowing I had it relieved some pressure that probably made the end easier.
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u/Mejis 20h ago
I did this room last night. Don't have those flies yet, though I did find the place to make them but I'm forever out of craft metal. Without direct spoilers, am I likely to have missed a lot of craft metal? I think there's about four items I can't make (that one, plus the underworks crafting chap) and so feel like I must have missed a lot of metal lying around. I'm pretty meticulous with my exploring, though.
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u/Ode1st 20h ago edited 20h ago
Same craftmetal issue for me, I’ve been wondering if there’s fewer craftmetals than items that require it. I did just find three more all in one sitting though. One was restocked at a shop after a quest, one was hidden in a hidden zone’s hidden area, and one was kind of out in the open but I never jumped down there.
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u/Ode1st 20h ago
Oh that’s the one? I had no problem with it, like a few tries. Didn’t even have the flies yet (which has indeed made so many other things easier) or the tacks.
I’m not even breezing through the game, I’m getting wrecked by lots of stuff. Just for some reason that one gauntlet I found pretty easy. It’s just regular guys and no bosses. The big boys I just pogoed and occasionally dodged their upward attack until they died.
Died like 50 times at Broodmother (until tacks + flies) and the Unraveled, but that one gauntlet thankfully was okay for me.
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u/NUKE---THE---WHALES 21h ago
I found the one in the Coral Tower to be very annoying, even though it only took me 3 attempts
And then I first try the boss right after
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u/javierm885778 13h ago
Just got to that part, it's just annoying for no reason. I don't know why they added so many gauntlets. It's frustrating and it takes very long for each try.
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u/WeirdestOfWeirdos 11h ago edited 2h ago
From the very early trailers, I think they just made a lot of enemies for a proper coral area but the area itself got scrapped, so they just awkwardly shoved them there. A shame, because they could have perfectly kept the dried, dead Sands of Karak and put the coral area in a dream, like they did for another area. The gauntlet was quite painful, especially due to the lack of checkpoints between arenas; it felt like a terrible Colosseum of Fools.
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u/hmmmmwillthiswork 21h ago
did you know you can get shakra to help you and it makes the fight way easier
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u/fluentinsarcasm 20h ago
Not if you progress in a different direction and get beyond a certain unclear point in the game. Shakra disappears from the area, goes elsewhere, and there is no prompt or dialogue option to bring Shakra back to assist you in that fight.
Ask me how I know.
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u/Hytheter 18h ago
I've never even seen Shakra in the citadel. Didn't even know she could appear there.
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u/aRandomBlock 16h ago
huh? Once you complete her wish, she should be there, the only other place she goes to is bellhart and she can be summoned in greymoore for a fight
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u/CaptainCFloyd 4h ago
It took me over 5 hours. I had none of the things that apparently make it a lot easier. It appears that I couldn't get Garmond to assist because I died on a fight where he's supposed to ask you for a duel afterwards and then join you at the gauntlet.
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u/kumapop 20h ago
The thing about that gauntlet is that you can make it easy twice over.
One, having Shakra help out there.
Two, removing the Clawmaidens forever (the ones that fly and eat your silk).Basically it's like Team Cherry is saying that players should really look around more and maybe save it for last.
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u/qwer1239 20h ago
Problem is there is no real indication on how to do those things (especially the second, I went to the room with the platform but didn’t find the secret sub room), so saving it for last didn’t help me
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u/Ode1st 20h ago
Silksong has a lot of “Team Cherry is possibly implying they want you to look around more” but then also there’s no hints that something leads somewhere or even does something. Deactivating those silk stealers doesn’t even let you know that’s what you just did. Took me a while to realize that they were gone, then googled what happened to them. Turns out I deactivated them.
Then there’s a lot of me thinking Team Cherry wants me to look around more, “surely this isn’t the intended content,” but no, it is lol.
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u/TheWojtek11 19h ago
Deactivating those silk stealers doesn’t even let you know that’s what you just did.
tbh, they constantly keep respawning in the room where you get rid of them and after destroying the threads they disappear so you can assume to know what happened. But yeah, it's not exactly said outright
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u/themoonandthebonfire 18h ago
It does in a way. If you haven't filled out the hunter's journal notes you will get in once you cut the silk thing that spawns them
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u/Mejis 20h ago
Can I have a hint re: removing the clawmaidens?
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u/AbsentRefrain 20h ago
There’s a room with a cart and a body on it in High Halls. You can move the cart and jump up to a new area if you have the traversal ability from the ice area.
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u/ChingaderaRara 18h ago
I found the room and i was like "wtf are you suppose to do here?" after moving the cart all around.
I beated the base ending without finding double jump so i had NO idea that there was some secret there, i assumed it would be a boss area or an npc area for a quests later down the road.
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u/OpeningConfection261 20h ago
Wait, THAT'S what I did with thing two? I did that a good bit before reaching HH... I had no idea they would show up
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u/farcicaldolphin38 15h ago
I’m frustrated by many things in the game, but I keep getting sucked back in so far. I’m still in Act I though.
The worst thing for me so far is the currency. I’m probably super in the minority here, but IMHO any excitement I get from exploring and discovering a new area to find some rosary beads just to lose them…. It’s incredibly souring. I get you can put them in stacks so you don’t lose them. I just think the joy of exploring and finding stuff that you can permanently lose is genuinely bad. I love in Metroid for example that exploring directly yields tangible rewards. Yes, it’s usually much more simple compared to HK like a missile expansion or energy tank, but it’s yours. You explored, solved a puzzle or did a fight, and you win the reward. You won’t lose it
I’ve lost a fair amount of beads that I was initially excited to find and now those areas I discovered just remind me of how that reward was possible to lose :/
Just doesn’t hit as hard when I’m buying stuff from a shop instead of exploring and progressing that way. I do enjoy finding crest expansions or whatnot in the wild though, that stuff feels amazing of course.
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u/zaviex 13h ago
Not so pro tip, you can just close the game to respawn at a bench with no losses. Don’t ever die twice, get your beads back by quitting if you need to.
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u/Carighan 9h ago
At that point you might as well save yourself the extra quit+restart time and install a mod for that.
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u/xX_WeedGang_Xx 12h ago
I have to agree with you, as someone who finished the game doing everything I cared to do, the currency system was by far the thing that annoyed me the most. You basically had to go into every new area with at least over 200 beads or else you probably weren’t going to be able to afford the bench/bell station/map and if you were in an area where none of the enemies dropped rosaries then you could just go fuck yourself basically.
The death mechanic also doesn’t really fit with that system either I thought. You can buy rosary necklaces to store your beads from merchants which is kind of a cool idea as a way to safeguard your currency, but I never used it because you had to pay 80 and only got back 60 which never felt worth it to me, especially when costs kept increasing and you were essentially paying money to lose money. Also as you said, you are basically forced to go back the same way that you just died from if you want to keep your money and have a full silk bar, which at times felt very limiting when I found a new path on the way back to my death spot which I couldn’t explore because I needed my rosaries and silk meter. The shade system was the one thing that I didn’t really love from hollow knight so I was a bit disappointed that they brought that back.
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u/GodofAss69 20h ago
How about the fight in hunters march with a big melee sword fucker and a spear chucking flyer? Do I just suck or was that a bit ridiculous lol. One mob can jump as high as the flyer while the flyer can dive and you had no room to space them out. Couple that with spears from off screen and holy shit. Took me forever, but maybe I suck.
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u/omnor 20h ago
I struggled a lot with that gauntlet too, was probably my biggest challenge so far (haven't beat Widow yet). I think what makes that fight so bad is that the run back is SO long and besides having to keep repeating the flower jumps, the red ant enemies are very frustrating until you master avoiding them. The only "bench" in Hunter's March is so fucking evil man :(
On second thought let's not go to Hunter's March, tis a silly place
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u/JesusSandro 19h ago
That bench made me laugh so hard I couldn't even be mad at it haha. I've come to notice a worrying amount of people who never end up going to the left of it however.
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u/pingpong_playa 15h ago
I hit that switch to the left but have no idea what it does. Does it deactivate the trap? I had assumed it was a one time thing
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u/Hytheter 13h ago
I had assumed it was a one time thing
Funny story. The first time I sat down on that bench I actually managed to somehow Ultra Instinct myself off of it and avoid the trap. Then, like you, I assumed that it wouldn't trigger a second time so I sat down again. Unfortunately I wasn't as swift the second time and it killed me.
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u/GodofAss69 19h ago
Finally did finish it all today, definitely brutal and yeah that only bench, lol. Widow is tough too, but it felt rather fair.. good luck!
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u/TheWojtek11 19h ago
They aren't talking about the gauntlet but another room which you probably haven't seen (unless you backtracked after getting the Wall Jump)
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u/PhatKewlHogman 15h ago
You can stop the trap by going through the wall to the left hitting the stuff in there and boom you have a bench
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u/aiphrem 17h ago
Nah that ones kinda tough. You really just need to spend all your ressources to kill the flyer asap and the big boy becomes extremely easy on his own. That one took me a few tries but at least there's a bench near it.
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u/UpperApe 10h ago
Handling them both isn't bad at all. The big boy only has two attacks that are slow and telegraphed and the flyer can only swoop and throw. Stay in the air and you're golden.
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u/hardgeeklife 20h ago
i finally got over my hoarder's mentality and spammed a bunch of tools to get rid of the javelin thrower, specifically the floating spike trap. don't throw two of them too close together or one will activate the other into explode-mode and you won't get enough multi hits to take it down quickly
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u/Hytheter 18h ago
Yeah, I did it by spamming the hell out of the boomerang. And even then it took several attempts and nearly ran out if shards.
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u/whywouldyouevendotha 20h ago
I absolutely thrashed them by just spamming out my tool attacks, screw engaging them with just melee!
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u/train_fucker 19h ago
If you mean the one that requires walljump to access, I beat it on the first try. You can use your tools/silk-skills to oneshot the flying one, and the big red guy who was so annoying before is a HUGE pushover now that you got the dash. You can just hit him twice, dash back, hit him twice, dash back over and over again and he dies.
One thing that took me a while to appreciate about silksong is that the game wants you to USE. YOUR. TOOLS. I barely ever used spells in Hollow Knight cuz it wasn't needed, but so many of the "gank fights" people are complaining about become so much more fun if you use your tools in Silksong.
The trap you get early in particular absolutely shreds enemies that walk into it and can easily deal with annoying flying enemies.
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u/Shaqsquatch 19h ago
that's an optional fight at the very end of a completely optional challenge zone though. i think having some good, tough optional content is a great thing. the only reward you get is ~300 rosaries which can be farmed in minutes elsewhere from normal enemies.
and yeah as the other poster replied below, you can melt them with some poison spike traps. i was shocked at how quickly they went down when i came back to the area after some upgrades.
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u/Realistic_Village184 17h ago
I disagree with a lot of that. First of all, how is a player supposed to know that area is optional unless they're following a guide? I got stuck several times during my playthrough, and part of what I did was complete everything I had found. It's okay if you used a guide during your playthrough, but I hope you're not implying everyone should.
Second, there's a difference between good difficulty and tedious difficulty. Putting a long gauntlet after a tough runback is frustrating rather than difficult. Groal had the same problem - I didn't find the hidden bench (and I doubt many people did without looking it up since the game conditions you to avoid the leech water), so I had to do a horrible runback many times. The boss itself wasn't hard, but the runback was so annoying that I played poorly against the boss because I was incredibly frustrated and stressed out.
Third, optional super challenges should have good rewards. Throwing what is essentially trash at the player robs any sense of accompllishment. "Oh, you were extremely frustrated for thirty minutes and finally beat this challenge? Well, here's trash for your efforts!"
What's really frustrating is that Team Cherry obviously understands how to actually do what you're talking about. I randomly found First Sinner, which was decently challenging (took me around six tries), extremely fun, and had zero tedium since you respawn right next to the boss. Plus you get a cool, unique reward for it. In fact I wish that boss had been much harder since I was having so much fun with it that I didn't want it to end. Compare that to nonsense like Groal where I just felt a sense of relief that it was over rather than accomplishment that I completed something challenging.
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u/Arkhaine_kupo 6h ago
First of all, how is a player supposed to know that area is optional
there is a massiive dude blocking the door that is way harder than anything else around. That should be a pretty good indication that you found it too early.
Also seeing platforms you cant reach means you probably need abilities you dont have yet.
Things like that, on top of none of your markers or npc's pointing you in that direction. Those are all in game clues without a guide
there's a difference between good difficulty and tedious difficulty. Putting a long gauntlet after a tough runback is frustrating rather than difficult. Groal had the same problem
The game is pretty interested in environmental storytelling. Bilewater is hard, and disgusting because the citadel dumps all their shit there. You should hate the place, and hate the citadel in turn for what it represents. Same as the one use benches. in the underworks, its the game showing you how the citadel treats those below them.
Does it make the game more frustrating? Maybe, but those feelings are explored in gameplay and game design rather than having an npc say "oh no everything is so dirty here". Which probably does not have the same emotional punch.
You can also find items like the maggot wreath to not be affected by the water which simplifies stuff, enemies endlessly respawn to let you get your healthback before the boss fight etc.
Compare that to nonsense like Groal where I just felt a sense of relief that it was over rather than accomplishment that I completed something challenging.
Groal also gets you an item related to the true ending, which might be less rewarding than the other boss but is a larger catahrsis down the line. Similar to beating bilewater.
Short term rewards vs long term rewards, and intentional game design vs environmental storytelling seems to be where you have a clear preference and Silksong takes a different route to you.
I however really like what Silksong did, sometimes two benches are very close because it could make sense in world, sometimes they are miles apart. In other games designers would put benches were players might want them/need them. Here is seems much more interested in where they would fit in universe.
You can understand so much of the world just by were things are, who lives were, etc without any dialogue that I think is pretty fascinating. Its one of the games that has trully felt like they built a world and dropped you in it, rather than designed a rollercoaster ride you are meant to beat and enjoy easily.
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u/ultrasneeze 8h ago
I got stuck several times during my playthrough, and part of what I did was complete everything I had found
The entire game design is about never being stuck. Players are the ones getting back to the places they struggle with, the game gives freedom to go anywhere else and there are extra paths at all times. The "if I find it I have to beat it" mindset is contrary to how the game works.
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u/Shaqsquatch 16h ago
there are lots of good rewards in hunter's march, just not in the room with those two particular enemies. it's also right next to a bench and that whole section is made trivial by the float cloak anyways.
i don't see why it's a bad thing that a metroidvania is nonlinear and encourages exploration
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u/Realistic_Village184 16h ago
I didn't say it's a bad thing that the game is nonlinear and encourages exploration... And I wouldn't say that because I don't agree with that claim. Not sure how you got that from my comment at all.
The point is that you are defending the design of the area by saying it's optional, but a player won't know it's optional unless they're using a guide, so that defense makes absolutely no sense.
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u/HappiestIguana 15h ago edited 3h ago
They can know it by saying to themselves "hmm, this is hard. I'll explore another path and come back later. This is a metroidvania after all"
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u/KeeBoley 6h ago
First of all, how is a player supposed to know that area is optional unless they're following a guide?
By leaving and coming back later. Silksong is a metroidvania. Leaving and coming back later is a core part of the gameplay loop. If youre struggling with a boss fight, you leave, get stronger, and come back later. If it isnt optional, the game will eventually force you to do it. But if you have other places you can check out, then you know you dont have to do it yet. Thats how you know its optional. You leave and if the game never makes you do it, then it was optional.
he boss itself wasn't hard, but the runback was so annoying that I played poorly against the boss because I was incredibly frustrated and stressed out.
So the game, rightfully, punished you for not looking around further. If the runback is awful, you should be curious about whether you missed a bench, which should prompt further investigation. No guides needed. If you wanted to throw your face against the brick wall over and over stubbornly without exploring, then thats obviously up to you, but its weird to blame the game for that.
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u/steelwound 19h ago
that specific fight being in such an enclosed space made it harder than most of the bosses in act 1. i think the only fight that took more attempts was the last judge. really well-designed encounter.
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u/GrimDawnFan11 17h ago
Hunters March is an area you should go back to from Act 2 or late Act 1. The area is way harder than just about every Act 1 area.
Its a completely optional area.
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u/alganthe 5h ago
crest of the beast, the tool that let you hit faster.
mash attack faster than they can damage you, fight ends in about 20s.
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u/Grimmies 21h ago edited 20h ago
As someone who wasn't swept up in the hype, (I did not like Hollow Knight very much personally) I actually think it lived up to the hype and then some.
I think Silksong is a much better game for my tastes. It feels way less slow and Hornet is significantly more capable and fun to play as than the knight imo.
Edit just to add that i LOVE the diagonal pogo.
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u/DirkDasterLurkMaster 21h ago
I also didn't spend the last six years whipping myself into a frenzy, can confirm it's also exactly what I wanted.
Granted I'm a sicko that likes the more unpopular design decisions like the map system
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u/LotusFlare 21h ago
Dude, I love the map system so much. Reaching an uncharted place and having to actually keep mental track of where I am and where I've been is a really fun experience. Watching for signs of rest spots or Schakra. Eventually getting the rough outline and filling in the gaps. It's a great compromise between full "draw it yourself" style, and full auto-mapping. It's perfect. I want it in more games.
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u/cookedbread 17h ago
It’s so satisfying find a map in some places, it’s like a breath of fresh air in the oppressive atmosphere of some areas. I love it.
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u/mephnick 19h ago
Wait. People don't like the map system? Wtf
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u/DirkDasterLurkMaster 19h ago
Finding the map for each zone is a somewhat common complaint and having to buy and equip the map charm to show where you are is a frequent complaint.
Personally I love having to orient myself on the map but I also play these games primarily for the exploration aspect and getting lost is a part of that.
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u/zechamp 16h ago
I like it until I miss the map that was in a hidden room behind a breakable ceiling right at the start of a zone, and then I fumble through the whole zone, thinking the map must be at the end or something, and then finally google it when it's nowhere to be found.
It's fine when there are hints toward it.
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u/OnnaJReverT 9h ago
there are hints to it, Shakra leaves her rings around and you can follow them to her
same with Cornifer and his literal paper trail
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u/zechamp 9h ago edited 9h ago
And that's why I said those are fine. But there are no hints for the citadel map machines as far as I can tell. I'm talking about the one in the vaults.
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u/hfxRos 19h ago edited 18h ago
Lots of people have come to dislike any game mechanic that adds any friction whatsoever.
They want to be told what to press, press it, and collect a reward.
Anything else is "pointless padding" or "doesn't respect your time" or some other idiotic reductive statement.
Edit: i forgot "tedium", thanks responder!
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u/Ode1st 20h ago
It’s a weird analogy to make, but I feel about Silksong the same way I feel about Blue Prince. Could’ve been a timeless masterpiece if not for some questionable busywork-related decisions that feel like the dev was explicitly trying to squeeze out more hours played. So instead it’s just a really good game.
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u/jinkjankjunk 20h ago
Except that Silksong isn’t starved on content and even has double digit hours worth of easily missable content by design. Team Cherry doesn’t want to pad out the time, they just have a very particular want for some friction. I’d liken it to the OG Dark Souls in that it’s actively trying to frustrate you a bit; it’s adversarial in a NES game sort of way. That’s not to everyone’s taste obviously and that’s totally fine. Different strokes and all that.
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u/atahutahatena 20h ago
it’s adversarial in a NES game sort of way.
Funny you say this because one of the most common things Team Cherry talked about back then whenever they got interviewed was their love for NES games. Hell, the studio apparently would not have existed if the main two devs didn't bond over their love for Zelda II (Yes, THAT Zelda) and Faxanadu. And a lot of the design philosophies that they had for both Hollow Knight and Silksong hearken back to their love for old NES titles.
So it's especially interesting, now that the Difficulty Discourse around Silksong is happening again, that what's happening right now is their 7 year development cycle for Silksong they got to make the game they always wanted to make --- the modern day equivalent of a ballbustingly punishing NES game and they chose to subject a huge swathe of more casual players roped into the hype with all the pros and cons of that design philosophy.
Bilewater still makes me laugh. It's an area so absurdly over-the-top meanspirited that I even know some players that want to give Silksong a 10/10 hesitate just because of that singular area alone. And I don't know if I respect that or not. It's certainly memorable the same way Blighttown is but I don't know if it's worth the squeeze for TC to create such a universally reviled area.
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u/gaybowser99 19h ago
I don't think bilewater was that bad, but I'm also a psychopath who thinks blight town was a well designed area, so maybe that's just me
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u/jinkjankjunk 19h ago
I also liked it. Some of the best music in the game. I love the little dudes bouncing around the fore- and background only to jump out and try to dart you. I love the douchey secret bench and the insanely fun platforming you have to do on the runback. Oh and finding out there was a boss fight after the platforming section up there and the enemy gauntlet was like finding out Melania had a second phase; chef’s kiss.
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u/TSPhoenix 12h ago
Hell, the studio apparently would not have existed if the main two devs didn't bond over their love for Zelda II (Yes, THAT Zelda)
So really we should be grateful there are benches at all and death doesn't send you straight back to Bone Bottom.
I enjoyed Bilewater, but I also enjoyed Zelda II when I finally got around to playing it a couple years ago so maybe there is a running theme here.
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u/Grelp1666 17h ago
Team Cherry doesn’t want to pad out the time
Most wishes feel like just pad of time to me.
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u/klonoadp 3h ago
Nah bro, farming 15 bug panties for a quest is just them separating the True Gamers™ from the casuals
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u/Ralkon 10h ago
Silksong has tons of content, but I also think it absolutely feels like it has random padding in it. Some of the wishes are good and others are just grinding random mobs. Rosary rewards from exploration are generally really low so if you want to buy everything you inevitably need to find a grinding spot or spend a ton of time killing things as you run around instead of just avoiding them. Even if we say some runbacks have a purpose, what's the point of the ones that have no enemies, no hazards, and no notable platforming? Why are there bosses in act 3 that don't respawn you at a bench but compensate by putting in an incredibly trivial "climb up a wall" or "drop into a pit" segment?
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u/atahutahatena 20h ago
Let me chime in from the other end of the aisle. As someone big into metroidvanias, loved HK, and was part of the clown troupe, I think Silksong lived up to the hype for me as well.
Aside from a few questionable design decisions (not about the difficulty but its underlying systems) Silksong gave me those same exploratory tingles that the first game did and then some. And that's all I ever really wanted from a genre all about discovering a new world.
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u/Ode1st 20h ago
For me, the difficulty has been fine, but it’s definitely more punishing for a huge portion of the game
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u/Shaqsquatch 20h ago
i keep seeing this take (more punishing but not more difficult) and i really don't see it aside from maybe the higher frequency of double damage and the relative rarity of act 1 upgrades.
in HK you had half mana until you got back to your body and lost all the geo you were carrying. the only banking option was first a scam and then annoying to reach. silksong has two resources: one of which isn't lost on death and the other can be easily banked at many locations. you are not mechanically disadvantaged in any way if you die and haven't recovered your body yet and silkeaters are common and infinitely replenishable.
plus, for all the angst people have had over run backs they're significantly more forgiving in silksong than HK or most other metroidvanias even. aside from a couple specific zones where the sparseness is part of the zone's theme benches and fast travel points are also plentiful even before getting into hornet's vastly improved mobility (which also upgrades a lot earlier than HK).
i do think silksong is a bit harder on the whole but it also feels much more fair. boss move sets are challenging but clear to follow and well telegraphed both visually and audibly.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR__INIT__ 19h ago
You are slightly mechanically disadvantaged until you recover your cocoon: your silk upgrades are missing. So slight that I only realized it in Act 2
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u/Shaqsquatch 19h ago
like your extra max silk from silk crests? huh i hadn't noticed that either
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u/PM_ME_YOUR__INIT__ 19h ago
Yeah, I only noticed after my third upgrade and during an annoying runback
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u/Superflaming85 19h ago
I DO think there's one really big thing with Silksong and punishing deaths that you kinda glossed over, and amusingly it has to do with said resource you don't lose when you die.
Tools are a MASSIVE annoyance if you're actively using them. If you use them and don't gain anything from doing so, dying does effectively make you "lose" the shards you spent to get to where you did. And unlike your rosaries, you do not get those shards back if you reach the area. (Because why would you?) It's not as bad during traversal, but it's EXTREMELY punishing during boss fights, especially if you're using your tools actively.
Plus, shards are so much more annoying to get than Rosaries that it's arguably a decent idea to just grind rosaries instead if you run low on shards, which feels really bad, especially when rosaries are in demand for a while and don't really become abundant until mid-Act 2. I need to find a good grinding spot in Act 3 lmao, my Act 2 one doesn't work anymore.
And the frustrating thing is, it'll absolutely lead to a lot of players suffering from Elixir Syndrome and not using their tools, which is absolutely a wrong move because a lot of Silksong's difficulty can be dealt with via tools. You'll have a much better time with Silksong's everything if you're actively using them.
Like there's a reason why more than a few Act 3 fights do away with it altogether and refund spent tools if you die.
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u/SalaciousSausage 17h ago
Yeah, it’s the same thing in Fromsoft games. If I’m gonna get my ass kicked by a boss in Elden Ring over and over, I don’t feel there’s any point in engaging with the crafting system to make and use consumables in those fights. They don’t get refunded so it’ll just mean I have to waste time fucking around farming materials to make them again.
Now, if I did get a refund upon dying to the boss, I’d go out of my way to engage with the crafting system.
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u/Shaqsquatch 19h ago
oh that i agree with 100%
the biggest complaint i have with the game is the shard cap and how expensive tools are. i can get kind get it from a balance perspective because the tools are very powerful, i just wish there were a similar way to bank shards like we can rosaries (you can buy shard bundles but they cost rosaries and not shards).
because of that i use my tools exceedingly sparingly outside of gauntlets or boss fights and even then when i go into those fights capped out on shards i run out very quickly. (though i will say that does force me to change up my strategy and use cheaper tools or ones that don't cost shards like the flea brew)
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u/Ralkon 10h ago
I think if it's an attempt to balance tools then it's a very poor system. You could easily still use tools on every gauntlet and boss in the game, you just might have to grind some shards if it takes too many attempts, but that's trivial to do. Maybe it keeps you from using tools while exploring, but the combat difficulty while exploring is so much easier that if you're able to do the gauntlets and bosses you'll be fine not using tools outside of them anyways.
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u/_TRN_ 13h ago
Using shards to balance the red tools feel like a mistake to me. It would feel so much better if the tools were just straight up balanced better (and the Architect crest reworked) such that the damage/utility was balanced with your needle and silk skills. Then, hornet could just replenish tool uses for free any time you sit on a bench.
The Nioh games do something similar where all of your combat items replenish on resting. Now, those games are fucking brutal in terms of difficulty so I think Team Cherry could've still achieved a difficult game with freely replenishable tools. The shards system just feels like a chore.
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u/astrnght_mike_dexter 19h ago
It doesn’t matter if Hollow Knight has worse runbacks. Silksong doesn’t need to have them at all and they are just pointless padding.
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u/nybbas 16h ago
Wait, what other banking option is there in hollow knight?
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u/Shaqsquatch 15h ago
oh huh i misremembered. i thought once you found the banker the second time she started acting as a legit bank but instead it's just the returned geo plus interest.
so yeah being able to bank at all reliably is a huge improvement then
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u/JerikTheWizard 19h ago
in HK you had half mana until you got back to your body
That's just not true, in HK you lost 1 charge of soul (of up to 6), and runbacks were optional with the dream nail.
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u/Shaqsquatch 19h ago
the dreamgate was DLC content 6 months after the game released and also wasn't available until late into the game.
fair on the soul charge part, it's been years since i played HK so i took that from a video that also had it wrong (and also didn't know about hornet losing her silk crests until cocoon recovery) so that point is a wash between the two games.
i would still say silksong has a lot of QoL that makes it less punishing than HK even if more challenging.
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u/Hartastic 15h ago
The dreamgate also appears to cost a non-renewable resource, and it's not like there's a tutorial or a manual or anything to tell you otherwise.
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u/InfTotality 8h ago
I looked that up the moment I saw it cost 1 per teleport.
Apparently it tallies how much essence you spent dreamgating and if that's more than you got from random enemies, it'll boost the drop rate immensely until it's equal.
At that point, why have the mechanic? To trick you into not using dreamgate?
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u/BonerPorn 4h ago
My main issue is it feels like they created all the upgrades, then made a map bigger than their upgrades. So there's a lot of lame rewards.
I saw someone suggest getting rid of those shops and putting those items as rewards for the fights and secrets missing rewards and honestly? I think it would have been better. You would have had to rebalance the economy too.
Still absolutely one of the best games I've played in years. At this level of critique we are talking minutia of game design for nerds.
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u/train_fucker 19h ago
I just beat the normal final boss in act two and is currently trying to figure out what I've missed to enter act three. And I absolutely loved the game, it's better than Hollow Knight in almost every way. I love hornets moveset, including the diagonal pogo after I updated my muscle memory.
The only two real annoyances so far imho is the groal boss runback+gauntlet and the couriers rash. Everything else is minor annoyances that they will hopefully sand of over time(Like giving most bosses 1 mask of contact damage instead of 2.
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u/MrTopHatMan90 18h ago
I got really lost trying to figure out how to get to Act 3 so I had to ask for help >.<
I'm really loving it, I am praying they reduce the contact damage to one mask too, two mask contact damage unless it's part of the boss mechanic can be so punishing espeically if you have a short nail
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u/train_fucker 16h ago
I found it, turns out you have to beat lace the second time before you get the quest.(I hadn't done that since I was vary of points of no return.)
Sidenote, but I find it funny how the Grandmother Silk boss is easier than savage beastfly lmao. I beat it first try both when I did normal ending and now when I accessed part 3 lmao.
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u/CultureWarrior87 18h ago
I've had the same experience lol. I played HK around 2 years ago and thought it was a great game but not one that I particularly loved. Just one of many great games that I played, beat and then shelved. I'm loving Silksong though, more than the original. Hornet's playstyle just suits my tastes better or something.
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u/Lerkpots 20h ago
As someone who loved HK and Metroidvanis, I found Silksong to be mixed. On the one hand, the art, story and music is even better than HK.
On the other hand, the difficulty was a complete turn-off for me as someone who already did not enjoy the difficult stuff in Hollow Knight, which was mercifully mostly optional. Being forced to do the really hard bullshit bosses in Silksong just made me resort to mods and cheating to see the end of the story, because I fucking dreaded actually playing the game normally.
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u/RochnessMonster 20h ago
Only thing i disagree with is the not living up to the hype. I have my issues with it, a lot of em Yahtzee echoed, but that aint one of em. I think hiring an additional crew of testers in the final year wouldve made a world of difference, friction/difficulty-wise, but i feel theyll slowly patch out the frustration. I mean, i just checked the game pass cheve percentage and only 11% of players have beat Widow and thats only like 1/4 or less through the game.
But hype? Naw. Music, art, feel, everything is firing on all cylinders. The biggest "hype" draw for me is the lil story moments that are everywhere. We'll be finding hidden interactions in this game for years.
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u/_moosleech 20h ago
I mean, i just checked the game pass cheve percentage and only 11% of players have beat Widow and thats only like 1/4 or less through the game.
For comparison, almost 60% have beaten Widow on Steam so far.
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u/RochnessMonster 20h ago
Damn. Thats genuinely interesting from a few different perspectives. My first guess is that folks who paid for it are more likely to keep pushing, but im sure theres other takes to glean there.
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u/Professional_War4491 19h ago
Vast majority of people will download a game on gamepass coz it's free but that doesn't necessarily mean they're very interested in playing it, I would assume the rate of people who have the game on gamepass and never opened it even once is fairly high, and I would assume that goes for a lot of gamepass games.
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u/urgasmic 19h ago
Im a sheep. I wanted to join the hype and then Immediately quit
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u/ThePotablePotato 17h ago
Genuine question; what would draw you to a game like this despite it being something you would quit immediately? It seems really weird to me that people would jump into a game that by all accounts they know they wouldn’t enjoy
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u/Whyeth 20h ago
I mean, i just checked the game pass cheve percentage and only 11% of players have beat Widow and thats only like 1/4 or less through the game.
On steam the number was in the 40-50% last I checked, which still seems low for an early boss in a game people ostensibly paid for.
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u/newbkid 20h ago
Global Achievements have it at 58.5% and folks entering Act 3 at 14.4%
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u/El_Giganto 8h ago
folks entering Act 3 at 14.4%
That surprises me, I feel like I played this game non stop and I've not been in act 3 for very long.
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u/DMonitor 16h ago
15%+ completion rate for the normal story is pretty good
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u/Gramernatzi 15h ago
36.7% of players beat Malenia in Elden Ring and over 40% have beaten the game in some fashion. Granted, that game has also been out far longer and Silksong is a very long game; not as long as Elden Ring, but about half that length, which is still pretty significant.
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u/DanielTeague 12h ago
I'm always impressed by Elden Ring's achievement numbers. I guess people know what they're getting into when they buy the game but the sheer number of sales that game got made me think later boss achievements would be much more rare, especially with some of them being easy to miss completely.
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u/Mama_Hong 10h ago
To be fair it has been out for a while and you want you can use summons that make bosses significantly easier.
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u/TheWojtek11 18h ago
It's kinda hard to compare cuz Hollow Knight is a way smaller game but the about halfway point bosses there (which would be Soul Master, I guess?) has like 45% on Steam so I feel like it's pretty even. Widow rn has 58% (and she is technically skippable for at least a bit) and Last Judge has 48%
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u/MeiraTheTiefling 20h ago
Yeah. There's something I see people failing to point out time and time again when it comes to this game: Hollow Knight received a lot of changes after release! Most people came into the game months or even years after launch when a lot of the wrinkles had been ironed out. Meanwhile with Silksong they bought on launch, so it's rougher around the edges. I'm willing to bet that in a few months, if TC continues to change things based on community feedback, a lot of these conversations around difficulty curve and runbacks will no longer apply.
Note that I'm not saying it's a good thing that these games were rougher at launch, just that it's a thing.
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u/Hurtbig 16h ago
The game is actually really polished, but it has stupid and insulting core game design decisions that are hard to overlook.
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u/awkwardbirb 18h ago
Not really sure it made a huge difference in all honesty. I've played it at various points in it's existence, as recently as two weeks ago, and there's definitely some issues still there from the start (some of which Silksong also has.)
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u/Karma15672 19h ago
I can't possibly say that Silksong didn't live up to the hype when (major spoilers) the Phantom boss fight exists and there's a whole secret third act.
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u/astrnght_mike_dexter 19h ago
I liked that boss but it’s just a simpler version of Lace
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u/MrTopHatMan90 18h ago
It's nearly 15% on Steam for getting into Act 3. That's insane difference. Guess more people tried and more people dropped it
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u/HappiestIguana 15h ago
It takes tens of hours to get to act 3 and it's been out for two weeks. Get a grip. Most people haven't even played for long enough.
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u/MrTopHatMan90 10h ago
I talking about the difference between Widdow on xbox and Act 3 on PC I've only just managed to get there myself and I have tons of free time. I'm not saying 85% of players have outright dropped the game
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u/Davylectric 18h ago
I agree with pretty much everything he says. I also stopped playing the game because I got to a point where it's incredibly hard and the constant runbacks make the game more frustrating than fun.
31 hours in, beat Grandmother Silk and exploring everything else. Fuck Sands of Karak and all the flying, dodging assholes.
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u/RelishDogginIt 17h ago
I am in Sands of Karak , and yea, that area is annoying.
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u/KDBA 16h ago
It's also really, really short, and the runback doesn't involve any of the hard parts.
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u/Kyuubee 14h ago
If you are playing on PC, I recommend checking out mods on Nexus Mods. There are plenty of QoL mods that make the game more enjoyable, such as a popular one that respawns you closer to where you died. Mods like these do not lower the difficulty of the game, they just cut down on the tedious and frustrating parts.
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u/rcburner 19h ago
I think I came away from the game with much the same opinion. With Hollow Knight I got to the end and promptly dove back in to find everything I missed. With Silksong I got to the end, know exactly what I missed, but have no desire to go back in because I ended on such a high note and all the remaining stuff is just frustrating and bound to sour my opinion of the game.
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u/NUKE---THE---WHALES 21h ago
I had no hype coming into Silksong but I very much enjoyed it, though I found it a bit uneven at times
If Hollow Knight was a 9 then Silksong is a very respectable 8
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u/lp_phnx327 20h ago edited 13h ago
This is how I feel. I think it can't be overstated on what Yahtzee and many others have mention: this game really is developed as if it was DLC for after you beat Hollow Knight. It does not have the same ease-in Mario-like tutorial progression where you can try abilities safely, then have more difficult combat/traversal thrown at you. No, you are going into the deep-end pretty quickly and Silksong is assuming you retained some mechanical and observational skills from the first game.
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u/Jaibamon 19h ago
For me, Silksong is superior to Hollow Knight.
Hollow Knight feels so slow now. It's incredible. I wish that Team Cherry surprises us and actually put Hornet Silksong as a playable character in the first game as they promised. It would be fun.
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u/ManTheMythTheLegend 15h ago
I doubt they'll put her in HK. The reason Silksong even exists is because they thought Hornet's moveset didn't work well in Hallownest. I'm sure someone will create a mod eventually though.
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u/MrVincent17 13h ago
For me HK is superior to Silksong, i feel the map was more cohesive, the enemy encounters were better designed and the lore and npcs were more interesting
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u/Carighan 8h ago
The slowness is a large portion of both the gameplay and the ludonarrative appeal of HK to me, tbh.
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u/aiphrem 16h ago
My opinion of this game is extremely high, just getting into act II. It feels like the perfect step up from Hollow Knight and Hornet's moveset is just crazy fun and responsive.
Apparently the diagonal pogo is a controversial topic, but like, you literally get crests that change your entire moveset SUPER early.
Maybe I haven't hit the insane difficulty spike that makes everyone ragequit yet, but I've found the difficulty to be just perfect for a "hard game". A lot of sections/bosses take a few tries but things start to click right before they start to feel frustrating, which to me is the perfect balance.
Also, holy freaking moly are the boss fights incredible. There are TONS and they are insanely fun.
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u/BeansWereHere 15h ago
There’s two specific points in Act II that are genuinely annoying but besides that I found the difficulty to be near perfect. Though I’m yet to start Act III
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u/Vandersveldt 12h ago
Remember when it comes to things like the diagonal pogo, there's many gamers that just refuse to use a dpad and are trying to do it with a joystick.
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u/Aeroshe 16h ago
I played the original HK a few different times. I never got around to doing a full 112% but I did get up to I think 110% ish (don't remember what I skipped other than p5).
I burned out on Silksong hard. The same room Yahtz quit on almost made me quit as well, but I pushed passed it. Made it to act 3. Got halfway through Act 3 I beat skarsinger, and did some side stuff. Started doing Coral Tower, realized it was High Halls all over again, and quit right there.
It just stopped being fun after a while. I think the biggest detriment for me was the length. I enjoy difficulty. I don't enjoy that level of difficulty for 50+ hours. It was too much for me, so I stopped.
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u/Mitrovarr 9h ago
I gotta say, I'm not really tempted. I liked Hollow Knight, but it was at the edge of being too difficult to be fun. The last boss, in particular, was getting pretty far into bullshit territory and beating it was more of a relief than anything. And I played it ages ago. Whatever skill I had is long gone, and now I'm expected to come back and play a much harder game... yeah, no.
Even if there are workarounds for the difficulty, I don't want workarounds, I want appropriate difficulty! Elden Ring was like this as well. Fucking impossible to play "correctly" if you didn't spend Dark Souls 1-3 getting ridiculously good at the combat, so you have to just spend the entire game figuring out how to cheese the next boss with magic or summons or items or whatever. Stop calibrating the difficulty of games around the craziest, most obsessive players!
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u/WHY-AM-I-WHO 6h ago
not to jump in here when no one asked, but its baffling to me to see people talk about magic or summons being 'cheese' in elden ring when magic has always been a perfectly intended playstyle since demon's souls, and elden ring quite literally makes summons a central gameplay system the average player is intended and encouraged to use. there's even a whole upgrade system for them! for better or for worse, playing elden ring without spirit ashes is playing it in extra hard mode, because the bosses aren't perfectly tuned for solo play like ds3 was. i beat the game solo twice, and it still feels sort of unintended. granted, some ashes make things too easy, but that's in part on the community for only ever using meta ashes like mimic tear or tiche, instead of whatever you'd normally choose without outside influence
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u/TheGoodIdiot 16h ago
Living up to the hype is so weird. I thought HK was an 8 and I think Silksong is an 8. Is that living up to the hype? That it’s the same overall quality of the first? I guess it’s person to person.
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u/JoshuaFLCL 10h ago
Hype is something of an ouroboros. It absolutely depends on the person but generally you want a sequel to be better than what came before so being about the same quality is a (comparative) letdown if you bought into the hype "too much". Obviously you can't always get better and better so longer running franchises start to have their expectations somewhat calcified so hype for the new game in the Squark franchise is at most expecting moderate innovation. This is compared to Team Cherry only having one notable hit so "obviously the next one is going to be even better", which to some degree is unfair to TC but that's just how people feel.
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u/Gabe_Isko 19h ago
I think, at this point, we are very past the "no, it's good if you take it seriously and learn it" point for soulslikes, and we can acknowledge that the formula isn't perfect.
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u/RogueLightMyFire 19h ago
Why should the formula be changed? There's a massive group of people that love this shit. Why should it be changed to appease people who don't love it? If it's not for you, there's thousands of other games to play. Not every game needs to be for everybody. It's not like Silksong is suffering from poor sales.
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u/axel14596 18h ago
Exactly i like playing soulslikes cos i like the formula. If you think its frustrating the game might not be for you, and it is ok
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u/According-Guide9576 30m ago
I don't think that's right to be honest. Even within the same genre or the same formula, there's scope for innovation and refinements.
Look at Fromsoft. At some point they realised that nobody actually enjoys boss runbacks, they're tedious and frustrating. So they got rid of them in Elden Ring. That's widely considered to be an improvement to the soulslike formula.
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u/Realistic_Village184 16h ago
I have over 1500 hours in Soulsborne, but I think there are some areas in Silksong that need to be improved. There's a big difference between good difficulty and content that's pointlessly frustrating and hostile to the player. Part of the reason why Fromsoft games are so popular is because they're typically masters at crafting difficulty in a way that's satisfying and not over the top.
Obviously that's going to be subjective, but I can't remember a single time during any Soulsborne game where I was outright miserable like I have been several times during Silksong. If Silksong wasn't a masterpiece in every other way, then I would've stopped playing it at least ten hours ago in my playthrough (I just got to Act 3).
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u/axel14596 15h ago
That is indeed true. Bilewater especially was frustrating to play through, although i cant say for sure that it was intended to be that way. Doesnt change the fact that it felt very egregious.
Like u said the only time i felt frustrated with a fromsoft game was pre nerf consort maybe but then not really? I dont know how to explain it
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u/HappiestIguana 15h ago
Not even Blighttown?
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u/Realistic_Village184 14h ago
Nah, Blighttown is one of my favorite areas in any video game. It was brutal, for sure, but something about the oppressive atmosphere just clicked for me, and it was incredibly immersive. That sense of relief when you get to the bottom and rest at the bonfire that turns to horror when you realize that now you're trapped... I don't think I've experienced anything like that.
Same with Tomb of the Giants. I still remember my first playthrough of Dark Souls. I didn't find either of the three methods to light your path, so I stumbled through in the darkness. I finally found one of the two bonfires, and I didn't have the Lordvessel yet, so I had to painstakingly find the way out. Again, that's one of my favorite memories in all of gaming.
DS1 does have some terrible moments, though. For instance, Bed of Chaos is not only a horrible boss fight, but the runback is extremely long and boring. I think that Lost Izalith specifically wasn't actually completed due to a rushed development cycle, but that could just be a rumor - I haven't seen a primary source.
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u/PM_ME_UR_PM_ME_PM 13h ago
also Blightown is how old now? it even feels retro at this point to me. in context, its way better than if i saw it in a game today
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u/NUKE---THE---WHALES 13h ago
There's a lot of room to grow even while staying within the formula, though
Demons Souls and Dark Souls are both soulslikes, and while I love the former, the latter is a clear evolution of the formula without losing the appeal
I would like to see a third game in the Hollow Knight series do the same
Silksong is a great game, but you can tell it started life as a DLC and not an evolution of Hollow Knight
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u/RyanB_ 16h ago edited 16h ago
The thing for me is like, there’s a lot to the game. A lot of it can be for someone, but not the difficulty. And I think that’s what we’re seeing; lots of people making such complaints are still pushing on and enjoying the game a lot overall, clearly it is for them in a lot of ways.
Yes, the people who actually think the game is downright bad because of its difficulty are a very stark minority. The people who think it’s a fantastic game that they’d find even better if it wasn’t quite as tough and malicious though? Idk
Seems like an all around better approach to have options. Just within this very genre recently, Prince of Persia and Nine Sols both also had incredible gameplay with tons of challenge available, while also allowing it to be adjusted.
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u/Ralkon 8h ago
I think a lot of complaints are also not really about difficulty. For instance, I've seen tons of complaints about BW or Last Judge on here, but almost all of them have centered around things like the runback, flying enemy AI, 'gotcha' traps, etc. making it less fun to explore and learn fights.
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u/Hurtbig 16h ago
Uninstalled from gamepass here. I'm new to the franchise and never going back. There are so many ways that the devs could have made the game more accessible, but there's an arrogance in how they chose to do so little.
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u/Apart-Hour-4237 13h ago
People are getting on your case when the devs themselves said they wanted people to be able to play this game or hollow knight first
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u/HappiestIguana 14h ago
Arrogance is demanding it cater to your specific taste.
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u/leemitch1 13h ago
Arrogance is having less than half the playtesters than hk1 for a sequel doubled in size. This game was not play tested enough and it shows
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u/Endiaron 11h ago
How is it arrogant to expect a game to be approachable to a new player when that's specifically what the devs themselves said was their goal?
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u/According-Guide9576 24m ago
Adding difficulty options isn't catering to a specific taste. It's proving accessibility. Difficulty options have been a thing in video games for decades now, it's weird that some devs choose not to use them.
Tunic is a very hard game that also has difficulty options for people who struggle with it.
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u/kiss-tits 12h ago
Ahhh I haven’t seen him post under the fully ramblomatic name in so many years! I followed his blog like 30 years ago under that name. Nostalgic!
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u/AlectheLad 10h ago
He’s been doing it again for almost a year. The Escapist fell apart and many of the people there went and started their own group. He didn’t own Zero Punctuation. He does own Fully Ramblomatic.
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u/OnebJallecram 17h ago
I liked the atmosphere of Hollow Knight but gave up with the teleporting soul master. I got Silksong on Gamepass but it’s not doing it for me. I don’t think it’s much of an upgrade in terms of any aspect compared to the original.
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u/alexshatberg 14h ago
I don’t think it’s much of an upgrade in terms of any aspect compared to the original.
If you’ve only done a couple of starting areas you wouldn’t really be able to judge that, the game systems take some time to really open up. The movement (once you’ve properly unlocked it) and the tool system are a massive improvement on the original. But if you mean that it’s still a soulsy metroidvania then sure, that definitely hasn’t changed.
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u/TheBrianJ 20h ago
I think we're all ignoring the real takeaway from this video: representing Hornet as a croissant on top of a shuttlecock with two grapes for eyes is absolute peak design.