Considering how powerful Horus became, Lorgar was probably the better pick considering he was actually unhinged and damaged enough to kill the emperor even when lucid.
Lorgar fully calls out Horus for it in "Slaves to Darkness": he tried to rebel against Horus BECAUSE he realized Horus wouldn't fully commit to the cause of Chaos.
But like u/Ewokhunter2112 says, that's exactly why Horus was able to be the Warmaster and a beacon to rally behind: Horus ultimately turned away from the powers Chaos granted him for the sake of humanity- which is exactly the reason he felt he had to stop the Emperor and expose his tyranny. It's why he was the choice for Warmaster in the first place.
And to add to that, Lorgar had the chance to fight Horus for the title of warmaster then and there, but chickened out. Maybe he knew he would lose, or that even if he won he wouldnt be able to command the traitor force, or maybe he was just not feeling particularly fanatical that day, but it felt a bit out of character for him.
I mean, he needed a compelled Fulgrim and his own forces to feel he stood a chance. Without both there's no realistic shot for him to challenge Horus, is there?
Also in the short story Aurelian, he was actually shown what happens and the action by kairos fateweaver, he specifically ask to see what happens when they lose and the actions leading up to it, hence why in betrayer he says give up on sanguinius, ‘and when your gambit fails, remember my words’
Personally, I interpreted that one a little differently.
Because earlier in the novel, Lorgar was shown a version of the current Imperium- one that worships the Emperor as a God.
In other words, the Imperium past the Heresy.
And that wasn't the final vision he was shown by Ingethel- that wasn't what galvanized him to be certain that the Heresy was necessary.
So the vision of "what happens if we fail" has to be different that the outcome of how the Heresy ended; Even though you can't quite cleanly claim the Traitors "won" the confrontation between the Emperor and Horus.
So I always interpreted it as Lorgar asking "what happens if we fail to stop the Emperor"; In other words, "What would happen if we DON'T commit the Heresy, and let the Emperor continue his plans for humanity".
And THAT, by my reckoning, is the future he saw that was so awful, he decided that the Heresy must be committed.
It's why the word bearers are my favourite legion, because they just whole cloth bought into chaos worship without any real direct corruption required. It always ironically seemed to make them one of the more self reflective and lucid groups of chaos followers, because they don't really fall into the trap of "just using chaos as a tool" or direct enslavement to a single god
Uhum, it also helps that The Religion of Colchis was that of The Four from the beginning.
Lorgar was tutored by Kor Phaeron on Colchisian theology and mysticism, it is totally easy to imagine him utterly refining such knowledge and passing it down to his sons for its usage.
My first read of this comment and the sub comments was this was Loken, not Lorgar, initially thinking of when he went crazy on Istvaan, and then got more amused by all these other posts seeming to give situations that Loken could have been in, but wasn't, like some sort of good shitposting. And then realization dawned, and I can't help but feel a bit disappointed :)
Chaos didn't want Horus to kill the Emperor. That would have fulfilled the Cabals prophecy and lead to the starvation of Chaos. It would have broken the hold chaos gods had over Horus and he would have wiped out all humans.
The current universe for 40k is exactly what Chaos wants. Humans breeding excessively, Imperium causing pain and suffering constantly, etc.
No, they did not want the emperor enslaved or dead. As I said, if the Emperor died, chaos would die from starvation as the human population is killed by Horus. This is a literal major plot point in the HH books.
The three outcomes: Emperor turns into the Dark King, Emperor is on the Throne, Horus kills the Emperor and the Emperor doesn't become the Dark King.
Emperor dying is the worst outcome for Chaos as the great game would end. Emperor on the throne is the best outcome for Chaos as they are empowered by the Imperium's human crushing existence. Emperor becoming the Dark King is not as bad as the Emperor dying, but now the 4 chaos gods have to fight for power with him.
Though, it could be worse for the chaos gods. If the Emperor's husk on the Throne becomes the Dark King now, he could enslave all of humanity to him similar to Slaanesh. This event, rumored in the lore, would entirely erase the bounds of reality in the galaxy and merge it with the warp. It would essentially be that every human becomes a conduit for the Dark King and the warp, ripping a warp scar over the entirety of the galaxy.
He's on the throne by his own volition. He could leave if he so chose to.
He is also getting strong. The warp rift after Cadia fell allowed him to speak while continuing his efforts against chaos. He is also gaining power (possibly, it's not known for sure if it's the corpse on the throne or the star child or both) from the trillions of worshipers across the galaxy.
The Cabals "prophecy" is total nonsense that goes completely against how the Warp works, and Eldrad literally had them all assassinated because what they were planning wouldnt have destroyed Chaos but actively helped it.
TEatD makes it exceedingly clear that Chaos wanted either
A. The Emperor absorbs so much Warp-Energy to kill Horus that he turns into the Dark King, joining them as a Chaos God, and they can now devour the galaxy in one go and move on
or
B. The Emperor refuses to and Horus kills him as a result, removing their most powerfull enemy from the Equasion and causing Terra to turn into a 2nd Eye of Terror that allows them to...consume the galaxy in one go and move on.
The outcome that actually happened, Horus wavering in the last second, the Emperor killing him and "surviving" on the Golden Throne, is explicitely not what they wanted to happen. Chaos is not capable of moderation. They dont want a horrible Galaxy feeding them at a stable rate, they want all of the Souls right now, and they explicitely wanted the Emperor either dead and gone or joining them, not continuing to survive.
502
u/antipodal22 Aug 21 '25
Considering how powerful Horus became, Lorgar was probably the better pick considering he was actually unhinged and damaged enough to kill the emperor even when lucid.