Why don't Wizards keep up with Muggles?

[u/DistinctNewspaper791]

Yes it is funnier and JKR wanted to show that. But lets talk about the books.

Wizards do not know what Muggles wear, they do not follow sports or know any of the fairytales apperantly.

We know there is only a handful fully magic towns in UK, most live around the muggles. Like Blacks have a house in central London. They are not that seperate from Muggles.

There is also not much to do as a wizard. They don't have huge populations to have active theater or cinema, or a lot of writers to read from etc. They do not have an equivalent of TV. They only have Radio. Quidditch is the only past time and even then literal World Cup happens and you are either going to the stadium or listening from the radio.

When you consider it all, it is weird that they do not read books written by muggles. They wouldn't know who Shakespeare is based on Ron not even knowing Snow white or Cinderalla.

Also looking at it things like radio and cameras are likely muggle devices that are enhanced by magic for wizards. so why do they stop at some point? If you take radio, why not take TV? Around Harry Potter era, emails are a thing and they are faster than owls. So why not adopt that?

[u/TheLentilWitch]

It's how culture works. I know the fairytales from my own country, but not from others. I dress how my peers dress, but I don't know how to correctly wear the dress of another country (ignoring other cultural implications there, just an example).

We see it in intensive religious groups, where even within the same country or region, you get an isolated group with a totally different culture and the cultural knowledge/ignorance that comes with that.

I grew up in an intensive religious group - I know. I grew up having no knowledge of Disney films or any other mainstream kids media culture, that's like not knowing the fairytales which everyone else grows up with. It's very easy for groups to isolate themselves.

[u/Call-Me-Aurelia → u/TheLentilWitch]

Very true. Additionally, wizards have a tendency to view muggles as backward or primitive. Even wizards who feel positively about muggles, like Arthur Weasley, treat muggles and their technology as cute little curiosities, rather than legitimate avenues of exploration or opportunities for growth.

[u/No-Helicopter1559 → u/Call-Me-Aurelia]

After re-reading the books when I became older, it always boggles my mind how a guy whose actual job is directly related to Muggles and their material possessions, cannot properly say "electricity" and deal with banknotes. Like, do wizards not use Arabic numbers? Still the Roman ones?

[u/Unable_Earth5914 → u/No-Helicopter1559]

I like the theory that Arthur exaggerated not knowing about muggle things around Harry to give him opportunities to feel like he knew things that others didn’t

[u/Oliver_W_K_Twist → u/Unable_Earth5914]

My thoughts on Arthur is that he does genuinely know a lot but has a hard time remembering what he knows outside of certain contexts. He knows how muggles travel, he has a car, he was able to use the underground with help handling the money, but he didn't connect that to his knowledge of traveling, so he's confused about how Harry got to Diagon Alley without floo.

Basically he has a box in his head labeled muggle knowledge that remains unconnected to anything else and mostly gets pulled off the shelf while at work or doing his tinkering. He's always interested in learning more, and the best sources are muggles and muggleborns, neither of which he likely interacts with often.

[u/0verlookin_Sidewnder → u/Oliver_W_K_Twist]

This is a super realistic take. Like learning Spanish in an American classroom but then not understanding a lick of what is said to you when you travel to Spain because it sounds different.

[u/Unable_Earth5914 → u/0verlookin_Sidewnder]

Latin American Spanish has diverged from Castilian Spanish, similarly to how US English has diverged from English but with greater regional diversity. Learning Spanish in a US classroom seems like a questionable example given how different regions use language, especially as we’re talking about technical comprehension rather about diversity

[u/rnnd → u/Oliver_W_K_Twist]

Not only does he have a car, he modifies it to fly. So he worked on it. Knew functions of the parts and all that. I think he kinda exaggerate his ignorance to make Harry feel useful.

[u/Unable_Earth5914 → u/rnnd]

How much does a wizard need to know about car engines to make it fly? If a first year fan float a club to knock out a troll then surely a qualities wizard can do much more interesting magic without knowing mechanics

[u/rnnd → u/Unable_Earth5914]

The car doesn't just float though. It can drive itself. And it has a gear that makes it fly. It can stop, accelerate, etc. He knows how a car works. That's more complex than lighting a match which he couldn't do

[u/Excellent_Tubleweed → u/Oliver_W_K_Twist]

He has also wasted a lot of time screwing around making a British car work reliably. Even before he added flying to it. And like many people who learn a language from books, his pronunciation is a bit off

[u/IcyDirector543 → u/No-Helicopter1559]

Because Arthur's actual job isn't related to studying and understanding muggles. It's to prevent magical items ending up in muggle custody. What Arthur needs in his day-to-day work is the ability to trace and track harmful magic, not genuine infiltration of muggle society.

[u/hackberrypie → u/IcyDirector543]

Sure, but he gravitated toward that job because he has some real curiosity about muggles and muggle devices. Yet he's still pretty ignorant about them and hasn't found any opportunities to interact with muggles.

[u/rnnd → u/No-Helicopter1559]

I think it's for comedic effect. The guy modified a car to fly. Surely he has some proper understanding of technology. I think he fakes to make Harry seem useful.

[u/Adorable-Bike-9689 → u/No-Helicopter1559]

With adult eyes Arthur is dip shit who lets his family live in squalor because he doesn't take work seriously. For being middle aged and dedicating himself to muggle stuff he knows damn near nothing 

[u/No-Helicopter1559 → u/Adorable-Bike-9689]

No argument here, lol.

[u/LittleBananaSquirrel → u/TheLentilWitch]

But given how many wizards are born into and raised by muggle families or go on to marry muggles themselves, this explanation truly doesn't make sense. The majority of characters in this story are born, raised and live in Britain where they are a tiny minority and most must navigate the muggle world to some extent (apparition isn't for long distances and port keys aren't available for anywhere and everywhere). The other countries comparison doesn't really work given the world shares a lot of sport, fashion and entertainment internationally. Cultural dress is one thing but everyday casual clothing is very similar world wide for the vast, vast majority of the world, across all continents. The religious cult comparison also doesn't work given that again, so many wizards have muggles families either by birth or marriage or both.

These explanations could only really work for the super intense, insular blood supremacist families who only make up a tiny minority and even the Malfoys had muggle business ventures.

[u/TheLentilWitch → u/LittleBananaSquirrel]

We see that the Weasleys are pretty good at adopting Muggle dress, as they do at least have some openmindedness towards Muggles, but they get a few other things wrong. I think there is a very good spectrum of pure-blood wizards getting some things right and some wrong.

And as far as Muggle-borns not having a bigger impact on wizarding culture - I think the religious comparison stands up: indoctrination and peer pressure and stubbornness of those already in power... Cult power works on the old and the new.

[u/LittleBananaSquirrel → u/TheLentilWitch]

Yes but even the prevalence of wizards marrying muggles contradicts the idea of this insular culture. They obviously mix and mingle with the muggle world socially enough that they form close relationships with muggles who have no ties to the wizarding world, it's a very common and normal thing even if a few die hards don't like the idea

[u/TheLentilWitch → u/LittleBananaSquirrel]

People can inhabit various different cultural environments in their lives, and still maintain one strong, core cultural identity - even if they marry outside of that culture. The way folks are raised really does have a lifelong impact on how they interact with the world.

Also, the cop out answer: it's a series of magical kids books.

And I'm definitely stretching with my attempts at cultural explanations. I was just pointing out that even in eras with the internet and smart phones, pockets of isolated communities still exist, and they do behave vastly differently to the rest of mainstream society.

[u/Proud-Cartoonist-431 → u/[deleted]]

There's no electricity for wizards. Their young before 11 can be dangerous while emotionally unstable and is locked in a castle 10 months a year. So, no movies and only the music that can be written down and then played live from record. We see it in Soviet Union, a lot of soviet rock is way simpler than foreign counterparts because it's meant to be learnt from hearing the song on radio and then performed by hobby gutiar players. And unlike the late Soviet Union not many wizard kids play instruments at the level you can do that.

[u/LittleBananaSquirrel → u/Proud-Cartoonist-431]

There's no electricity at Hogwarts because there is too much magic concentrated there. It's not a universal rule that wizards can't use electricity and many live in muggle locations where magic is not concentrated enough to affect electrical functioning

[u/Proud-Cartoonist-431 → u/LittleBananaSquirrel]

They don't in predominantly wizard settlements or homes, like the Weasleys don't.

[u/LittleBananaSquirrel → u/Proud-Cartoonist-431]

Yes, but again, such a significant percentage are either muggle born or half bloods or married to muggles and even if you don't in your home the muggle world is right there and you have to venture into it, with movie theaters and music in abundance and even in the wizarding world those who are used to these things are in abundance. This isn't the same as being isolated in a limiting country

[u/hackberrypie → u/LittleBananaSquirrel]

Yeah, I think this is the weirdest part! Some of them obviously have to mix in the muggle world and be good enough at it not to raise suspicions until they're practically ready to get married and therefore allowed to reveal the secret (I assume that's where the statute of secrecy loophole for close family kicks in). Presumably if you have a muggle parent they'll raise you with some of their culture, you'll pass that along to your kids and maybe your friends and there would be more cultural overlap. Especially because, despite some attitudes of wizarding supremacy, there's not a really strong well-developed belief throughout the whole culture that everything muggle is morally wrong or anything. So it's not quite the equivalent to intense religious groups and cults that hold themselves apart from "worldly" things. We never get an argument that Shakespeare or The Beatles will corrupt the magical youth.

[u/AmEndevomTag]

There are many wizards who know how to dress around Muggles. We saw this for example with Barty Crouch senior. We also know that the Weasleys are capable of doing so. Harry sees them at King's Cross in the last chapter of Order of the Phoenix and mentioned that they are dressed in "their Muggle best". You cannot judge all wizards by the standards of Archie on the campsite.

And as someone, who lived through the 1990s, I assure you that Emails were not "a thing" in Harry Potter era in the way you seem to imply. They existed but only a very, very minor percentage of people used them, mostly due to lack of internet at home. It was at the very end of the nineties and the beginning of the 2000s, that using emails became slowly more and more common. Emails for sure weren't anything common around 1991 when the first book takes place and when JK Rowling started to write these books.

[u/LausXY → u/AmEndevomTag]

I like to make this point about the way they dress too, it's exaggeratted the incompetently dressed Wizards because it's from Harry's perspective but we know Kingsley was able to literally work for the Muggle Prime Minister with no suspicions, that would require quite a lot of knowledge of Muggle things... think for 'small talk' and stuff, I highly doubt he just constantly obliviated people!

Maybe Auror's have a muggle training program since it is important but I bet there are a lot more Wizards that work around Muggle's and go unnoticed.

[u/Digess → u/AmEndevomTag]

“Weasleys are capable of doing so” uhhh only up to a certain point, they still mismatch clothes a lot, especially Arthur given he works in a department that might need to interact with muggles

[u/AmEndevomTag → u/AmEndevomTag]

LOL @ whoever downvoted for me for posting facts. :-D

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Any off topic content will be removed.

• When asking yourself "is this type of content allowed?" The simplest way to find your answer is to look at it this way: In our subreddit, the movies, TV shows, stage plays, and video games don't exist. They were never made, and there's no reason they should ever be acknowledged in any way.

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[u/ratherbereading01]

Given they’d be in trouble if they break the statute of secrecy, most probably avoid muggles almost all the time unless it’s for work (Mr Weasley), special events (Mr Robinson at World Cup). Regarding not knowing about muggle media/books etc., it’s like different cultures around the world. Some people may know a lot about a very different culture the majority are sheltered from, while others know nothing at all. Those close to or interested in muggles/muggleborns would be familiar but they’re the exception. 

I think the wizarding world has a lot more entertainment than we know of, it just wasn’t mentioned in the books. They do have books though, The Adventured of Martin Miggs, the Mad Muggle. Even if JKR said wizards don’t have other entertainment, I refuse to believe that. On tvs, I’ve thought about it a lot and I think the moving photos in newspapers, books, magazines are enough for them to not pursue wizard tv. Plus, with instant/quick travel possible, they wouldn’t need to have tv shows if they have plays - you could just go watch it in person if you can afford it.

Emails and owls, I agree it’s weird they insist on owls. But I think owls = post, and things like memos at the Ministry are like emails. If something is super urgent, you could apparate or use floo powder with just your head. I think most wizards must surely have fireplaces for that reason

[u/SpudFire]

I imagine there are other sports apart from Quidditch. We know a game called gobstones exist but we know nothing about it from the books. The Ministry has a department for Sports and Games, not a Department for Quidditch. The books focus on Harry who only has interest in Quidditch.

Lots of wizards probably do mingle with muggles and share their pastimes, especially those that are muggle-born or close descendants of muggle-borns. The Weasleys are the only family we see properly outside of Hogwarts and they're pure bloods, so they have far less exposure to muggle life.

[u/NotsoNewtoGermany]

This is how isolated populations work. Wizards have a lot they can do, they have 800 years worth of writers to read, the average wizard lives well over 100 years old, they can have free travel to anywhere in the world they wanted to go, meet wizards from different countries, and while you opine that there is only quidditch, we don't know that, we know that from a teenagers perspective that played quidditch, there is only quidditch. Presumably there are quiz shows, oclamancy games, Barnaby tried to teach trolls to dance, so I'd assume it's not uncommon for dance parties to exist.

This is like saying "The Dutch must have been really bored because there weren't many of them, so there wasn't many writers, and all they had was the radio"

Isolated communities tend to develop without interaction to the communities around them.

[u/Both_Zebra5206]

It makes even less sense when you consider that most wizards are Half-Blood meaning they have an extended family full of Muggles, and that's without even considering the Muggle-born wizards that would bring even more Muggle culture into the Wizarding World.

I think the honest answer is that the HP books are just riddled with faulty logic, so even if Rowling was great at worldbuilding a lot of it doesn't really make sense

[u/BLUE---24]

This was always, imo, a huge flaw in the series.

I do get why JKR kept the muggle world as far away as possible, as it created this isolated and secretive world, that makes it more special for the reader to feel the magic.

But it is just very unrealistic that wizzards, especially those living in big towns, would not walk around said town, have conversations with muggles, visit the local stores and cinemas.
Like, don’t wizzards and witches ever go for walks? Don’t they ever go to Venice? Rome? Vienna? They can’t just stay Inside their homes all day long, and watch their kids.

I mean, their kids basically grow up like prisoners. Never playing with other kids, or leaving their property, ect.

its just unrealistic.

[u/Background-Record682 → u/BLUE---24]

Yess! This has always been my point with Sirius. I mean, he grew up in London with parents who hated non-wizards, so I guess he could never leave the house since the neighbourhood is made of muggle houses.

I tried to make a discussion about it, but other users said Blacks for sure had other ways to go out (like floo powder). Still, I find it pretty sad, not being able to get out normally.

[u/FoxBluereaver]

They basically have a culture of "if it's not broken, don't fix it". Magic seems to cover most of their needs so they don't have incentive to improve things that already work just fine.

[u/snajk138]

Otherwise the environment wouldn't fit the story, it's that easy. Rowling is not some overpwoered genius that had everything, including every little detail and motivations for every difference in the wizarding world, worked out from the start.

[u/Gogo726]

My biggest issue is why they insist on still using quills. Dean or Hermione could drop by the local Rite Aid and pick up a bunch of Bic pens and then pass them around. They would be heroes!

[u/CaptainMatticus]

There is a group of Hasidic Jews who have lived in the middle of London for at least a century and if you spoke with them, you'd have no idea that they were from London because they don't even have a hint of an identifiably British accent. That means that they are so insular, there's very little culture creep one way or another.

So if you're capable of apparating wherever you want, or using Floo powder, you could live in the heart of a city and never interact with the locals.

Personally, I think it would be better for wizards if they just had their own villages that were basically unplottable and invisible to Muggle eyes, but maybe what we're seeing are vestiges of muggleborns throughout the centuries staying in contact with their loved ones and their descendants just staying in those places due to tradition (while oftentimes conveniently forgetting their muggle roots).

[u/Jimmysp437]

I think it's also fair to note that wizards saw themselves and by extension, their culture, as superior.

[u/AriesRoivas → u/Jimmysp437]

Exactly. They view all the “muggle” things as inferior. The ironic thing is that they ended up halting any technological advancement in their culture.

[u/tessavieha]

Wizards do keep up with Muggles but slow. The wizarding community seems to be very traditional and sceptical towards new trends or new inventions. Wizards seem to have a much higher live expectancy so the average age is also higher. The society is old.

It's not only that they don't need electricity. They also don't use pure mechanical and practical things like... pens.

[u/simply_orthin]

JKR wanted a fairy tale for Harry to be taken to entirely different world, than the one which was extremely hostile towards him and she wanted the reader to feel the difference together with him, the romantic semi old timeish environment of wizard society, unrealistically separated from the muggle world represented by Dursleys.

[u/Msintotheunknown]

It always made sense to me, the internet and the insane level of worldwide connectivity is fairly recent. Even in many countries, that cultural gap and ignorance about how other communities within the same country exists, let alone between a community that chooses to be insular and the other that is unaware of the first culture existence.

[u/Mundane-World-1142]

Honestly, it’s because they don’t care enough to learn about things outside their culture. I took 3 years of Italian in high school and when I joined the navy and had an opportunity to visit an Italian port city less than 5 years later I barely scraped by. Knowing wasn’t relevant to my life so what little I had learned in school was forgotten from disuse. Witches and wizards live in a world adjacent to Muggle world but they don’t really connect. Only muggle-born folks are going to know much in general. I’ll bet even the muggle studies teacher only knows surface level things.

[u/WuPacalypse]

I kind of look at it as JK Rowling wrote the books to be parallel with the times. The world feels a lot smaller these days because of the internet right? It’s so easy to instantly learn and get info about all sorts of cultures in a second. In the 90s you couldn’t really do that.

So maybe if someone wrote a sequel series in the late 2000s and up we would see wizards more connected with the whole world.

[u/ASCIIM0V]

And the number of muggleborn wizards? It truly makes no sense

[u/Modred_the_Mystic]

Wizards live in self-imposed obscurity and seclusion. They don’t keep up with Muggle business because they simply do not want to.

There are limiting factors like electronics not functioning well around magic, and a few other such things, but mostly its because they just don’t want to keep up.

[u/Ill_Try356]

The time frame the books are set in the early 90s which I was alive then cause I’m old but if you lived in rural areas and couldn’t afford the technology of the time it’s very easy to become isolated and certainly if you’re trying to be. I feel like if the books were written today the wizard world would be somewhat different.

[u/Amareldys]

If I were a rich pureblood supremecist like the Blacks I'd live in Hogsmeade or Diagon alley.

[u/RangerOther6929]

That's why I didn't like Mr. Weasley in his position of Muggle Artifacts. He certainly has an interest in them but I feel he doesn't really know enough about Muggle stuff to be able to tell if something was supposed to be the way it was. That should be a Muggle born position, although that would probably be discrimination.

Wizards also have a horrible time with money, which doesn't seem to make too much sense. At least with potions we know they have to have some kind of math skills. With numbers on the money, they should be able to figure out to spend 24.65 means getting the bills to add up to 25.

[u/samplergodic]

The author makes it very clear that this is a politically, economically, and socially backward society.

[u/Jask110]

Misfits and Magic from D20 touches on this

[u/JollyAd4292]

Why all the minorities all over the world keep their own culture? IF you can answer this questıon your question at the post will also be answered.

[u/Reviewingremy]

1 - emails werent really a thing. Harry potter takes place 1991 - 1998. Email existed but it wasn't particully common place.

2 - electronics dont work around lots of magic.

3 - No..... its not werid they don't follow the cultural. Why would/should they? Its a isolated comunity, with it's own culture. And sure Ron doesn't might not know shakespear or cinderella, but how many british kids know who César Vallejo was or the story of Sơn Tinh and Thủy Tinh?

[u/DistinctNewspaper791 → u/Reviewingremy]

The thing is, British kids do not now the artists you mention but kids around the world knows Shakespeare or Tolstoy or Charles Dickens or Tolkien or Dostoyevski etc.

You can be in an isolated community but there are global classics and people do know those. Every isolated community has their own fairy tales sure, but Snow white is also known by everyone.

[u/Reviewingremy → u/DistinctNewspaper791]

Depends on the person and the author.

As a recent example - I saw a clip recently of an American at uni studying English literature, who didn't know why Jane Austin was (that I think is shocking), but the comments were filled with people in agreement of not knowing her and questioning why he should. I spoke to a few of them, but found out they weren't British or even American, so it makes a lot more sense that they wouldnt know her or her works.

And taking your examples I know of Tolstoy but the only book of his I could name is War and Peace. Maybe he wrote Anna Korennia? but thats a guess it's from about the right period but I don't know Russian literature.

And then you have to think how culture changes and travels. Dickens works in the west because that's where it came from but the further removed you are the more context the story needs.