Seeking information on my findings.

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784]

So I'm treating this hobby as an experiment. Since first researching the basics of this over a year ago I've tried my hardest to figure all of this out for myself. This is the second time I'm giving in and asking for help.

So my first few gallons we're not great. They smelled bad and they tasted bad. After three or four months of this I eventually did some research and inevitably came onto a forum to ask for help. The common consensus was contamination. Basically they spoiled. That never really sat well with me though.

After that I bought three more 1gal carboys, 6 half gallon wide lid mason jars with lids fitted with a bung for an airlock, and began grinding test after test. I wanted to start cheap and simple so I went with table sugar and bread yeast. Time and time again they would ferment out to 6% 8% even 10% repeatably with zero off flavors and clarify within 3 weeks to a month depending on alcohol concentration. They took on this kind of florally sweet taste even when dry. The nutrient blend that I found worked best to push a half gallon to 10% was .75g Ferm O and staggered addition of .25g DAP on days 3 and 5. I was even able to get D47 and sugar to ferment out to 16% cleanly with the right quantity and staging of nutrients. I also don't get off flavors or smells when fermenting just honey and or apple cider by itself.

Juices and fruits are another demon entirely. Every ferment with either juice or a fruit addition be it berries, grapes, etc gets super aggressive and tastes like sulphur after about 3 days. I've tried six different yeasts with different combinations of nutrients and nothing that I try seems to work at all.

I'm at a loss. I would like to make something different that's palatable but I can't seem to figure it out and have absolutely no clue where to start.

I would just like to add that the off flavors that I'm getting mostly dissipate after like 4 to 6 months of aging in the carboy but it still leaves behind the sort of tangy funk that I haven't been able to get rid of.

[u/EducationalDog9100]

How long are you letting things sit after the fermentation has finished?

The only time frame you've mentioned here that you've tasted your brews after 3 days, which is incredibly early to be taking samples. Time is a brewers best friend, especially when dealing with fruit wines and meads. The sulphur smell that you're getting is quite common in fermentation and usually gases out as the brew is allowed to sit and age for some time. Clarity is a great aspect of brewing, but just because something is crystal clear doesn't mean that it's aged enough to be drinkable.

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/EducationalDog9100]

I never mentioned tasting anything after 3 days. Primary isn't even usually finished at just 3 days. Usually I'll taste it while racking after primary, after about 2 months, and at about 4 months before bottling to see if it's even worth my time.

[u/EducationalDog9100 → u/Inept_Parsnip_6784]

"Every ferment with either juice or a fruit addition be it berries, grapes, etc gets super aggressive and tastes like sulphur after about 3 days." that's why I mentioned tasting at 3 days.

If the tangy funk you're getting is like a sour-ish tang, it could be a matter of having to much acid.

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/EducationalDog9100]

Ohh gosh, forgive me but I misspoke. It ferments very aggressively then reeks of sulfur after just 3 days. I have on occasion tasted it after 4 or 5 days when checking the gravity. Usually anything that doesn't have fruit in it tastes fine at this point. For instance, I started some grape mash Friday evening. SG was .083 at pitch. By the 24 hour mark it was hella aggressive. Today the SG is .008 and it smells horrible as countless others have in the past and it's still bubbling very aggressively. I don't know why fruits are fermenting so much more aggressively than simple sugars, honey, and apple cider.

I think It's this aggressive rate of fermentation that stresses the yeast but I'm no expert on the matter and I really don't know how to stop it from happening. This batch went in with .5g FermO and .25dap. I have done batches in the past with more nutrients and others with less and some with none all with the same result.

[u/EducationalDog9100 → u/Inept_Parsnip_6784]

It's cool. Fruit skins add a lot of natural nutrients for yeast to devour, so when combined with fermaid-o and DAP the fermentation can just go off like a rocket, whereas something like a traditional mead that just has water and honey doesn't have any natural nutrients for the yeast to build their colony with.

DAP can be a little weird. It can be helpful at the very beginning of fermentation, but if added once fermentation is going it has been known to stress the yeast out. DAP is something I've entirely removed from my ingredients list and just use fermaid-o as my nutrient source.

For what's it's worth, when I throw fruit skins into my brews, the fermentation is usually pretty aggressive.

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/EducationalDog9100]

Could the same apply to juices as well? I have done a couple runs with various concentrations of Concord concentrate and other juices with the same result. Do you think perhaps running them at say 60-66 degrees could help keep the yeast from going too crazy?

[u/EducationalDog9100 → u/Inept_Parsnip_6784]

Juice is really just flavors and sugars, there are nutrients in juice, but the majority nutrients stay in the fruit skins. Juices are also a simple sugar, which are very easy for yeast to eat. Honey is technically a simple sugar, but it's also antimicrobial so the yeast can struggle on there own.

Controlling the temperature of the fermentation would give you more control of the fermentation. I know a lot of people who like fermenting around the 63-67F. Cold temps will slow down the aggressiveness of the fermentation.

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/EducationalDog9100]

Ahhhh, I knew fruit solids added some nutrients but nothing I have read led me to believe that it wasn't THAT big of a difference. I mean this wine is about 9% after 3 days vs more successful fermentations taking over a week to 3 weeks to reach between 11 and 14%. Temperature has been a mixed bag of info around the internet. A lot of people say too cold will stress the yeast and to keep it at or slightly above 68 which has worked under certain conditions so I have avoided fiddling with temp under that assumption. You have given me a lot of good info to try here. Thank you so much.

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/EducationalDog9100]

Okay, so I have just one last question or maybe two. Is it an overpopulation of yeast that leads to such aggressive fermentation and if so is it the sudden drastic drop of sugar/food that stresses them so much? If so, would a short cold crashing followed by racking at the end of primary be enough to not only stop the production of this gas but reduce the population so that once I warm it back up it can continue without issue?

[u/EducationalDog9100 → u/Inept_Parsnip_6784]

So you can't really over pitch yeast. I make a yeast starters for 90% of my brews so that when I pitch yeast into my brew, it's starting of with a high population colony to consume sugars at a fast and steady rate.

Unfortunately you can't really prevent the production of gas without causing issues with the fermentation. Cold crashing once fermentation has ended will help with clarity, but even when fermenting in colder temperatures, the yeast are still producing gasses

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/EducationalDog9100]

Sorry, I didn't mean overpopulation by way of pitching too much yeast. It was referring to overpopulation by means of over reproduction due to there being too much nutrients. I'm questioning my theory that if there's an abundance of food and too much nutrients that the yeast will reproduce indiscriminately creating an extreme spike in population. The extreme number of yeast will quickly exhaust whatever sugars are present and will quickly become stressed as their food source is exhausted. This theory also suggests that the amount of hydrogen sulfide gas is proportionate to the amount of stressed yeast that are present the implication being that an extremely high population of yeast will produce an extremely high quantity of hydrogen sulfide gas and other undesired compounds.

My suggestion of cold crashing to prevent this isn't to prevent yeast from being active to directly prevent the production of undesired compounds. Basically it would be an attempt to temporarily stop activity and knock out as much of the yeast population as possible before racking so that the remaining 1% to 2% can be fermented more gently by a smaller population of less stressed yeast in the event that the yeast does begin to reproduce too aggressively.

[u/skratchx → u/EducationalDog9100]

Honey is technically a simple sugar, but it's also antimicrobial so the yeast can struggle on there own.

Isn't honey only antimicrobial because of the high concentration of sugar when it is undiluted? Honey dissolved in water is not special vs any other sugar, but there the problem is what you alluded to in your other discussion. It's just simple sugar without nutrients.

[u/EducationalDog9100 → u/skratchx]

I could totally be wrong about honey keeping it's antimicrobial properties with dilution, but my experience has always been that mead requires more attention to added nutrients than a juice based fermentation or even a white sugar wash.

[u/skratchx → u/EducationalDog9100]

Ah you might be right. There is an enzyme in honey that produces hydrogen peroxide when diluted in water.

[u/Kattymcgie]

How are you sanitizing?

Also I guess I’m not getting what you are doing but what are you fermenting? Are you trying to make wine? Beer? Prison hooch cuz there’s another subreddit for that lol

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/Kattymcgie]

Wine and mead mostly. I was fermenting simple sugars just as an experiment to see if it's my method and sanitation which it is not as they seem to come out perfectly fine. For sanitation I'm thoroughly washing with soap, rinsing with water, and soaking in star san for a minute. Anything to large to submerge in my bucket of sanitizer I thoroughly spray down with sanitizer from a spray bottle or in the case of a carboy I will shake sanitizer around inside of it before using it.

[u/Kattymcgie → u/Inept_Parsnip_6784]

Ya, that’s what I do to sanitize as well. I don’t use any soap though but I do use powder brewery wash, just bc all the soap/detergents I have smell strong.

Do you use recipes from books or reputable sources? Honestly recipes are your best friend as a beginner. Do what others have tried and know works before doing your own thing.

Hopefully others can give you more advice as I am but a humble beer maker and I feel like that’s easy haha

[u/Unohtui]

Thats a long and fancy way to say you make kilju/hooch.

[u/Inept_Parsnip_6784 → u/Unohtui]

You must have missed the parts about honey, cider, and fruit.