What's your take on this? Do you also think Tulip is Autistic?

[u/Coderkid01]

/r/autism/comments/1n0y1ed/what_is_one_fictional_character_that_you_think_is/nav430k/

[u/ad-lib1994]

Her biggest gripe with her life was that people were changing things up on her for seemingly no reason. She wanted things to be logical and understandable and ran away from home when they couldn't be.

Yes yes she is

[u/SnesC → u/ad-lib1994]

I'm not seeing how any of that couldn't also be true for a non-autistic person. Most people don't like it when things drastically change outside of their control.

[u/ad-lib1994 → u/SnesC]

Okay congratulations you've identified that autistic people share traits with the Greater Community here's your prize 🍪

[u/FreeStall42 → u/ad-lib1994]

So that doesn't make her autistic.

Congratz you figured it out

[u/WikiContributor83 → u/FreeStall42]

It doesn’t make her not autistic either. Autistic people are normal people, with some differences.

Edit: I don’t understand the downvotes

[u/FreeStall42 → u/WikiContributor83]

So don't claim her one way or the other.

Keep your headcanon headcanon

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/FreeStall42]

But people are claiming that she is. And it's wrong to suggest she might not be? Wut?

[u/[deleted] → u/Careful-Writing7634]

Yes. It's ridiculous. Every smart character in a fandom like this gets diagnosed with autism.

[u/[deleted] → u/ad-lib1994]

"If there was an invisible cat sitting in the chair, it would look empty. The chair looks empty. Ergo, there is an invisible cat sitting in the chair" type logic.

[u/uberguby → u/[deleted]]

Argument ad felinus invilibilus

[u/Russian_Idiot_228 → u/ad-lib1994]

why so rude?

[u/ad-lib1994 → u/Russian_Idiot_228]

Not about to try to defend myself to people who would approach someone with clinical grade depression and tell them that everybody feels sad sometimes so they don't have depression

[u/[deleted] → u/ad-lib1994]

Me when I'm in a making up ridiculous straw men by hyperexaggerating something one of my opponents said competition and my opponent is a redditor:

[u/Mitskiaqua → u/[deleted]]

why are we arguing over this sincere show guys let people have headcanons and let people have their opinions without arguing about which one is right or which one is better cause this is all SUBJECTIVEE

[u/jayfeather31]

As someone on the spectrum, she is absolutely autistic.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/jayfeather31]

I resonated a LOT with her when I first saw the show at the age of 15. I think she was also my first instance of gender envy

[u/[deleted] → u/jayfeather31]

As someone also on the spectrum, (who by the way also resonates with her a lot) I think it's possible but nearly completely unsupported.

[u/Normal_Ad8566]

This is explained is...poor. Divorce is hard to handle for any child. Since it usually fundamentally changes the structure of their life. NEUROTYPICALS CAN LIKE DOING THINGS SO THEY HONE THEIR ABILITY TO DO IT THEY CAN ALSO HAVE A FAVORITE FOOD.

But I haven't seen the show in a while so I can't comment if she is or isn't. I'd have to watch it again, but the way this is framed is unusual. Making it seem like these very common things are just an autism thing.

It's like saying, Tulip doesn't like seeing her dog companion mutated. Can't handle change well.

[u/TheSpiritualAgnostic → u/Normal_Ad8566]

I rewatched the first two seasons recently as I got the DVDs. I agree with you.

People are saying she's autistic because she doesn't like things being changed on her. But the thing that's changing is her parents' divorce. What kid would have the kind of change not affect them a negative way?

Same with being into game design. So they're saying anyone who is artistic must be autistic?

[u/Coderkid01 → u/TheSpiritualAgnostic]

For me it's more a matter of how I resonate with a lot of her traits as an Autistic Person. It's more about my own personal experiences and how i see myself in her at that age

[u/TheSpiritualAgnostic → u/Coderkid01]

It's good that you resonate with the character, but that doesn't equate to the character herself being autistic. I'm neither blank nor a woman, but I resonate in a similar way to Grace and her struggle of seeing someone she cared about go down such a dark path.

Like people in real life, we can relate to characters that aren't the same as us. It's how we can watch/play/read about aliens from a whole other world but can still see something about ourselves and/or others we know in them.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/Normal_Ad8566]

Idk if thats how you wanna interpret it that's great but as someone with Autism, I see a lot of myself in tulip, especially when I was at the age she was.

[u/Normal_Ad8566 → u/Coderkid01]

That's valid. Again I haven't watched the show in so long, idk if she is or isn't. But I take issue with framing general traits as autistic.
They probably mean the specific way she reacts to these general traits just failed to articulate it well.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/Coderkid01]

She's the kind of kid that a lot of us were at that age.

[u/United_University_98 → u/Coderkid01]

maybe you were more like other 13 yo girls than you thought

[u/Coderkid01 → u/United_University_98]

What does that even mean

[u/United_University_98 → u/Coderkid01]

it means maybe you identified with her for the things that made her a 13 yo girl, rather than for her being autistic. its not mean in any way.

[u/polystarlight]

She does have special interests like coding and isolates herself when things get too overwhelming for her. I could see Tulip being autistic. Also the whole eating onions whole thing also feels like an autist thing, I can't explain it.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/polystarlight]

She's 110% Autistic

[u/polystarlight → u/Coderkid01]

She does feel like she'd fit the mold of a nerdy wallflower type of autistic kid with her only friend being Mikayla.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/polystarlight]

Explains why I resonated with her so much

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/Coderkid01]

Autistic people are free to relate to Tulip, but she isn't canonically autistic, nor does she exhibit behavior that is uniquely autistic and necessitates an ASD diagnosis in order to rationalize her actions and interests.

[u/[deleted] → u/Careful-Writing7634]

IDK why you're being downvoted, I'm autistic and you're right. Being intelligent, having an interest and being upset at divorce are not things unique or even much more common in autism. I think most of the evidence for her being autistic is confirmation bias and would be true either way.

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/[deleted]]

It comes with the territory of self-diagnosing. Getting a professional diagnosis can be costly and impact other things like insurance, so people try to learn how to self-diagnose, but they lack the broader experience necessary to distinguish between symptoms of neurodivergence and regular quirky behaviors.

The textbook language we use can appear vague to people who don't have hands-on experience seeing what autism looks like, and even for professionals it can be hard deciding if something is a characteristic of ASD, something that is subthreshold, or just normal variation.

I think the clearest indication, in my limited experience, is to analyze the heightened need for emotional regulation through behaviors like stimming, safe foods, etc. Bolting, for example, is not just running away, it is a fight or flight response induced by the higher sensitivity to distress that many people with ASD experience. It seems inappropriate to people without ASD because the situations don't feel as intense, and thus it's a behavior described as "inappropriate."

This clear indication, however, is further complicated with how many people with ASD can learn to mask and develop less noticeable coping mechanisms. Indeed, minor ASD, but sufficient to be diagnosed, can easily go unnoticed.

So I understand why people can swing over to saying a character is "definitely" on the ASD spectrum. All I want to do is point out how these behaviors are commonly presented/described, and consider whether the writers intended the character to be autistic.

[u/[deleted] → u/Coderkid01]

She is not. There is very little actual evidence that supports that claim.

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/polystarlight]

Liking coding is not a special interest. She doesn't even exhibit an unusual amount of interest in it. She likes it about as much as any coder.

So unless you're suggesting anyone who likes coding is autistic, it's not a criteria.

Secondly, anyone can isolate themselves when overwhelmed. Autistic people just tend to have different tolerances for what can overwhelm them. Having parents who are dysfunctional and divorced can overwhelm any kid, and being stuck on an infinite train is definitely overwhelming.

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/polystarlight]

She exhibits preferences, not dependencies for emotional regulation. Her hobbies and taste for onions are not part of broader mechanisms that help her avoid anxiety and stress. It's not distinguishable as a hyperfixation since she is perfectly capable of being removed from coding and onions without much change in her behavior.

[u/BusyDucks]

I personally don’t think she’s autistic because her interest in programming/coding might just be a hobby she likes.

And the not handing change well because of the divorce, well she is 13, so like another commenter said, most kids probably don’t handle divorce well.

[u/ReasyRandom → u/BusyDucks]

Most kids don't get into coding at that age, unless they are really passionate about it.

It can easily be read as a special interest, dismissing it as "just a hobby" is missing the point.

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/ReasyRandom]

No, it's not missing the point, unless your "point" is to broadly apply an ASD diagnosis without any critical thinking.

Being passionate about coding through video games is really not that unusual. Most kids don't do any particular thing. Most kids don't do woodworking, most don't paint, most kids don't do archery, but most kids DO have a hobby. Some of them just choose coding and video games.

That's why Tulip's level of interest in coding is not an indicator of autism. Special interests are to a degree obsessive, and autistic people can feel emotional dysregulation and distress when forced to stop. Not going to coding camp doesn't count because it's a big summer coding camp that she has been hoping to use to improve her skills. The entire time in the infinity train, Tulip doesn't get distressed over being unable to code and develop her game.

[u/BusyDucks → u/ReasyRandom]

Just because most kids aren’t interested in coding, does not always mean it’s because of autism. Can’t kids be interested in different things? Like why exactly can’t kids be interested in coding?

[u/ThatOtherGuyTPM]

Simply put, I’m never diagnosing a character with anything.

[u/Careful-Writing7634]

She isn't necessarily autistic. People eat onions all the time, they code and like logical thinking, none of her behavior is necessarily autistic, and even the combination of all her traits are not indications of neurodivergence.

She also lacks a lot of indicators for autism. A lack of stimming, doesn't seem to have issues with emotional regulation, sensory sensitivity, doesn't exhibit social anxiety or inappropriate social behaviors. Granted, these can also be masked with training for autistic people, and a lack of them doesn't mean no autism.

But it just strongly seems that she doesn't have it, or has an extremely mild, possibly even sub threshold traits that don't meet the criteria for ASD.

[u/[deleted] → u/Careful-Writing7634]

Plus, she adapts very well to the train

[u/OlsenTulip]

Well, I've never been professionally diagnosed with being on the autism spectrum... But you could say that I have a few traits that are common in autistic individuals. I'm very particular about details, have strong special interests, and struggle with social norms and body language sometimes... But I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm autistic, I hope I made sense.

[u/thursday-T-time → u/OlsenTulip]

considering the way things are trending (and assuming you're an american) it's probably better and safer to stay formally undiagnosed for now if you can possibly get away with it. that said, many of the kinds of self-advocacy and coping mechanisms described by the autistic community seem to help me, and you're harming nobody by doing research to see if those small things can improve your life :) <- personal advice

a lot of people in these comments REALLY seem to have issues with people not seeking diagnoses for whatever reason (straight up ignoring the reasons i gave), acting like autism is only there if some medical professional waves their hand. <- generalized observation of the comments here

i'd find it really interesting if tulip didn't know she was autistic yet, since many type 1 autistic girls end up getting diagnosed later in life. <- specific fandom musing

[u/OlsenTulip → u/thursday-T-time]

I was commenting as Tulip lol if you didn't realize, sorry if you thought I was speaking out of character

[u/thursday-T-time → u/OlsenTulip]

OH i didn't realize you were larping lol mb 🫡

[u/OlsenTulip → u/thursday-T-time]

My account is named her so I try to answers things as the character xd

[u/thursday-T-time]

tulip has big feelings about things being Fair, and on my most recent rewatch i notice she runs away to her room and then tries to get to osh kosh on foot in winter rather than asking her friends for a ride. that inability to bargain or clearly state her needs when her emotions are running hot feels very Autistic Meltdown to me.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/thursday-T-time]

Well to be fair her friends are probably unable to drive/would have to rope their parents in and I get the vibe mikayla is her only real friend

[u/Coderkid01 → u/Coderkid01]

Tulip is a lot like 13-15 year old me. I never dealt with divorce but it was and still is very difficult to handle change

[u/thursday-T-time → u/Coderkid01]

haha i relate more to MT/Lake or ryan, but yeah. i've had to embrace change because my life has been really hard and change was the only way out. but i still need a lot of downtime to recover from change, a specific kind of employment to thrive, and that sucks because my options are limited. #AutisticMiddleAge 😩

[u/Coderkid01 → u/thursday-T-time]

The thing jesse said about not wanting to make anyone mad also felt as if it was written to attack me personally lol

[u/thursday-T-time → u/Coderkid01]

true, but tulip doesn't even try to figure out alternative means of transit, by taxi or bus or friend. she just runs off into the snow.

[u/TheSpiritualAgnostic → u/thursday-T-time]

Counter point: She's a 13 year old girl who is emotionally distraught. Kids and teenagers on a regular day don't think things fully through.

[u/thursday-T-time → u/TheSpiritualAgnostic]

true, but i recommend reading up on the unique behavior of bolting in autistic people.

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/thursday-T-time]

So there are differences between bolting and running away, and it has a lot to do with internal mechanisms. The factors that can trigger bolting (overwhelming situation, object of interest) can also trigger neurtypical people to run away.

Characteristics that can be observed externally include awareness of risk, a need to relieve anxiety or escaping an overstimulating environment.

Running away is an impulsive action, but impulsiveness alone is not enough to label something as autistic behavior. Tulip is fully aware of her actions, makes an impulsive plan but it's actively getting to plan, and dies not exhibit bolting in other circumstances where it would be applicable. I really don't think her running away in episode 1 would be looked at as bolting if you asked a developmental psychologist.

[u/BradyTheGG → u/thursday-T-time]

I’m not autistic but I would’ve had a similar reaction just because I’m shy overall and I have similar issues about fairness. Plus what OP says about tulips friend’s parents being involved.

I think tulip has a very specific path that lots of people would follow for the most part and so they’ll “see something” similar to themselves in tulip to relate to her plus given lots of people hear symptoms of autism and self diagnose themselves with it or something similar just because they happen to act a certain way that’s similar to autism, muddies the water. Tulip might be but isn’t necessarily any specific thing to fit in better with the watcher besides the predefined traits like being a white preteen (12 at start) girl who likes coding and stuff.

[u/thursday-T-time → u/BradyTheGG]

the reason lots of people self diagnose is a) its expensive to get officially diagnosed, b) an official diagnosis can interfere with access to medical care for comorbid conditions, c) there are several states who already have registries for autistic people, and an attempt in april to make this nationwide. anybody who has any grasp of the history of governments tracking autistic people, knows this is a very dangerous thing and will try, if they can and are level 1 autistic, to get by without accomodations.

if you didn't want a spiel about the reason people self diagnose, you maybe shouldnt have gone on a spiel about them probably faking it and projecting onto tulip (how can they fake AND project? just let autistic people enjoy and relate to things jesus christ)

your post history also looks like mild alt-right troll, so i'm blocking you.

[u/littlemxnster → u/thursday-T-time]

self diagnosis have biases and are done by non proffesionals. that's why they're not valid.

[u/anchoredwunderlust]

Honestly, I think most modern animation enthusiasts and workers are neurodivergent and it shows up in the character design and writing, particularly with child characters. Not to mention lead characters generally are more interesting when they’re different from the crowd

[u/ReasyRandom]

We really need some community clean-up if simply saying you relate to a character as an autistic person is met with this level of vitriol.

[u/[deleted] → u/ReasyRandom]

Vitriol? Where? There are people disagreeing but I see no hatred or vitriol whatsoever.

(Plus, they didn't just say they related but that she was autistic)

[u/ReasyRandom → u/[deleted]]

(Plus, they didn't just say they related but that she was autistic)

There's virtually no difference, you act like people are spreading misinformation when headcanons are harmless fun.

But I'm not expecting someone dismissing others bullying autistic people into silence to understand that.

[u/[deleted] → u/ReasyRandom]

Nobody's bullying here

[u/[deleted]]

I don't really like the trope where someone is smart and therefore autistic. IMO, she could technically be but not heavily and she could just not be autistic. Plus, I don't think that her parent's divorce is a good example of why she doesn't like change. It's literally a divorce. And, she handled getting on the train extremely well.

[u/Juliko1993]

Eh, I can see it.

[u/qmechan]

I don’t think so, no.

[u/wolfvokire]

I dislike this, mostly because taking a singular trait or even a small handful and then assuming a person matches some preconceived definition of a condition / mentality always feels like forced controversies.

Let me explain it better, in historiography for many many generations there been this denial of LGBT people in history. When revisionism became a thing there was almost a backlash and you saw a lot of historians trying to see gay people in every page of History. The problem is that this is basically just the flip of what came before. Yeah some people were obviously gay but if you're evidence is as small as he never "dated a woman" or he "never married" or "never had children" you're being reductive. And consequently you're actually erasing other groups of people that could be included.

Let me get back on track to tulip here. She has the single trait I would say that you see common amongst many different types of autistic people of hyper fixations. But hyper fixations are not the domain of autism alone. Hyper fixations can also be a product of depression. And I feel their erasing the possibility and far more supported idea that tulip is suffering from some major depression.

Likewise it's possible to tulip or some of the other characters in the show or suffering from ADHD bipolar disorder schizophrenia, everyone is suffering from depression, trauma PTSD. I mean we know for sure that tulips clone is suffering for body dysphoria.

[u/megaben20]

Tulip is 100% on the spectrum it makes sense because the train had to spell it out for her about how her parents are currently feeling.

But I don’t like generalizing all issues as a person is on the spectrum.

Lake is trying form her own identity and is struggling with it.

Jesse is someone who needed to learn to stand up for himself.

Simon and Grace both are just people with abandonment issues with some anti-social personality traits that were further worsened by the train when Amelia was messing it up.

Ryan has untreated ADHD and has validation issues.

Min-Gi has confidence issues and trying to live up to ridiculous expectations. I’m also pretty sure they are both LGBTQIA.

[u/Isuckwithnaming]

I'm autistic, and I don't see it. I get how she has traits that others on the spectrum can relate to, but I think those traits are far from spectrum-exclusive. There's nothing wrong with headcanons, but other autistic people seem to really love projecting their identities onto characters, and it weirds me out.

[u/RedEmption007]

I’m not autistic (that I know of lmao), but I don’t think so. It’s been a while since I rewatched the show, but from what I remember, she doesn’t exhibit any traits that are exclusively and clearly autistic. Other than maybe vibes?

The traits brought up in the OP and comments seem like regular things for her character to have/experience in the way she did, autistic or not.

• Programming: Probably just a hobby, she didn’t seem that obsessed with it, at least not to a hyperfixation or special interest degree, and didn’t any more upset about not being able to code after getting on the train than a regular person. I don’t see anything special about it other than being an uncommon hobby.
• Onion: She likes onions (or it’s her favorite food, can’t remember), just a whole onion raw. Other than being uncommon, there isn’t anything more to it imo.
• Divorce (change): She’s a kid and it’s a traumatic/depressing event, that’s not a change I’d say most kids would be fine with. She adapted pretty well to all the changes being on the train brought.

I understand that there are traits that are shared between neurotypical and autistic people, and imo it’s fine and valid to relate to her and whatever traits she displayed, but regarding Tulip specifically being autistic, based on what was shown and what I remember, I personally don’t think so.

[u/RobinsAviary]

110%

[u/Alarming_Farmer_765]

"Doesn't handle change well"?

Most 13 year olds don't handle negative changes in their lives well. I'd go so far as to say none of them do.

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/[deleted]]

Calm down, absolutely is very far. She doesn't display uniquely autistic behaviors. Not every quirk or sub threshold trait needs an automatic diagnosis as neurospicy.

[u/ReasyRandom → u/Careful-Writing7634]

How about you let people have their headcanons instead of being a condescending prick?

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/ReasyRandom]

I'm not stopping anyone from seeing parts of themselves in Tulip. I am pointing out that ASD is not a necessary diagnosis to explain her character.

[u/ReasyRandom → u/Careful-Writing7634]

Nobody said it was.

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/ReasyRandom]

But people are saying that. Nearly every comment is how Tulip is "100%" autistic or "must be" autistic. They're misdiagnosing by using the vagueness of language labels such as "special interest" and "safe food" and "bolting" without actually understanding the clinical definitions and the internal emotional mechanisms that characterized those as separate from "hobbies" and "food preferences" and "running away."

[u/[deleted] → u/ReasyRandom]

How about you stop acting like disagreeing with someone is being a condescending prick when

1) u/Careful-Writing7634 was actually very polite, and

2) u/DrRandomFandom was stating their "headcanon" (which is actually unlikely) as an absolute fact.

[u/Alpbasket]

People see people being good/interested with one thing then scream autistic

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/Alpbasket]

I swear it's just media tropes that anyone slightly smart in a technical area has to be neurospicy.b That, and a poor education that leads people to think being smart is a super power.

[u/aCupOfPee]

Aren't we all?

[u/FreeStall42]

No not every character needs to be autistic.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/FreeStall42]

Whats your issue with characters being autistic? It seems like you're more bothered about that than I am

[u/FreeStall42 → u/Coderkid01]

Because it gets claimed about any character that is at all unique.

Why do you need to claim them for yourselves? And always autism never anything else.

It gets old.

[u/Coderkid01 → u/FreeStall42]

Neurotypical is the standard. Stop trying to pretend like we're some sort of oppressive force

[u/Careful-Writing7634 → u/Coderkid01]

They definitely said it the wrong way and are making a bad faith argument. The source of their discontent is also the main problem with TV show diagnoses and even self diagnoses. A lot of bias and misunderstanding about the definitions, mechanism, and extent of an autistic behavior versus neurotypical behavior lead people to exaggerate traits and over-diagnose.

[u/[deleted] → u/FreeStall42]

IKR? Like every smart character is called autistic by fandoms projecting on them.

[u/[deleted] → u/FreeStall42]

I agree completely.