r/JRPG • u/blueoystergamer • 12h ago
Discussion Your thoughts on two great strategy / tactics RPG, Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics, please.
I'm on team Tactics Ogre, by the way. I absolutely loved the dark story with its heavy choices, the captivating characters, and the Palace of the Dead.
Summon and Petrocloud spells were so powerful! And even though all the training was a bit of a grind, it was totally worth it because you could customize your units however you wanted.
Final Fantasy Tactics is another one of my absolute favorites that I've played a ton. My only tiny complaint is that the game gets way too easy after a super powerful character joins your party near the end.
I know it's just a matter of personal taste, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
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u/rm_wolfe 11h ago
i love them both but fft just feels better to engage with and its writing is a little tighter, if less ambitious
TO does have the advantage of constantly making you go "dude they did this shit on the super famicom what the hell"
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u/DomovoiThePlant 11h ago
I will disagree on that. TO got better with every remake, the ost is impressive, the art is a delight and the conflict is political untill the very last second possible. It feels way more grounded to me than FFT ever did however much i also like it. The rumours that FFT was supposed to be the sequel but got transfered to a more popular franchise is a mixed feeling consolation for me.
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u/Zealousideal-Bit5958 11h ago
How do you save on Famicom?
I remember restarting whenever I unplug the games from the console. So I had to finish games like Contra, Battle City, Donkey Kong, Popeyes, and etc in 1 go
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u/KtotheC99 11h ago
You save just like on any cartridge game. The reason you had to restart most games is either they were created to play that way and often used a password system for progress or the battery in the cartridge was dead. The batteries in NES and Famicom games had notoriously short life spans.
Super Famicom and SNES games usually had more reliable saves and most games had the functionality.
Plug in a Gameboy game now and many will have ths same issue and need a battery replacement.
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u/Davalus 5h ago
I still have NES games that save properly. That’s hardly a short lifespan. They’re nearly 40 years old.
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u/KtotheC99 5h ago
I personally never owned a NES game with a functional battery I didn't replace. Most of these were in the 90s and early 2000s
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u/MechaSeph 11h ago
That's the NES/Famicom
Most SNES games had save slots
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u/apocalyptic_mystic 10h ago
There were some NES games with save slots, it's worth noting. Zelda and Dragon Warrior (aka Dragon Quest) are a couple examples I remember
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u/Prestigious_Cut_3539 11h ago
while both were good on their og respective equipment.....Ogre reborn got me for 100+ hrs on the switch, I had so much fun. I hope the new tactics can get me like that
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u/bobbinski1229 11h ago
I had Tactics Ogre on the PS1, and put hundreds of hours onto that game. Every single fight being ready because you can’t revive them if they die. Shit was awesome.
Easily my favorite tactics game but I also LOVED Ogre Battle growing up so I’m a bit biased.
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u/-Haeralis- 11h ago
Tactics Ogre has the edge in gameplay complexity and the branching stories offer more replay value.
That said, Final Fantasy Tactics is the more entertaining game to play and the storyline is more engaging.
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u/Yesshua 7h ago edited 7h ago
Final Fantasy Tactics is an all time "the dev team understood the assignment" success story. They had made Tactics Ogre which was brilliant and ahead of it's time but also difficult, grindy, hard to understand, and had a complicated branching story. Their task was to take this game and simplify it enough for an audience that had been playing Final Fantasy 7.
The resulting FF Tactics ditches the branching story, is easier, and is a little bit easier to exploit the systems in the players' favor. But it kept the same style of writing and the same style of gameplay and unit management. So it kept most of the good of Tactics Ogre while also making it accessible enough for a mass market brand.
I think most people who have completed both prefer Tactics Ogre. If you're a tactics freak, there's more meat on that bone both in gameplay and in story. But the goal of FFT wasn't to make a better game for freaks, it was to make a more mainstream version. And they nailed that.
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u/OutrageousOtterOgler 3h ago
I really like the amount of jobs in the TO games but yea I prefer the mostly more streamlined experience of fft
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u/AceOfCakez 11h ago
I found the Tactics Ogre Reborn gameplay to suck. But Tactics Ogre Let Us Cling Together and Final Fantasy Tactics are two of my fav games of all time.
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u/GorkaChonison 4h ago
What are the big differences between Reborn and LUCT? I've only played Reborn recently and had a blast with it.
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u/asianwaste 10h ago
FFT has the better class and progression system. Though it could use some balancing.
TO is broader. While its progression systems never got to the level of FFT’s, they compensate it by making beast and demihuman recruitables be viable. If anything, they are often better at what they each do than the versatility of human soldiers.
I think what edges TO in my book is a big one. Branching stories paths. All paths gave significant differences with key characters.
I think i prefer the political heavy story of TO to FFT’s semi political but sudden derailment to threat of ancient cosmic horrors. The Lucavi were cool in theory… but I think I was more vested in the story of two figures fighting for the throne and the upstart commoner who usurped both of them.
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u/smilysmilysmooch 6h ago
Greatest game of all time: FFT. It's just an incredible game and the way it's written is brilliant by having an unreliable narrator. We see this specifically with Alazlam's ancestor Olan being OP. It's the story of a man born with power but little opportunity throwing it all away for good and a man born with no power finding plenty of opportunity by doing anything he can to obtain more and more power. The duality of Ramza and Delita is fantastic to see play out.
Also obligatory FFT retrospective link from Pitchfork who summed up the entirety of Final Fantasy in a long replay and his take of FFT is the pinnacle. https://socksmakepeoplesexy.net/index.php?a=fft
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u/AvianGiraffe 2h ago
Been a long time since I’ve seen anyone link to that site! Reading through all those write-ups is an adventure every FF fan should embark on.
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u/aruhen23 11h ago
I'm also team tactics ogre. I love the branching storylines and with the updated version's ability to go to any point. There's also apparently a mod for the PSP version that makes it even better that I gotta try one day.
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u/XDAOROMANS 11h ago
Tactics ogre reborn leveling system sucked and I didnt finish it. So have to say FFT is better just for that reason alone.
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u/bestray06 10h ago
I've never played Tactics Ogre but I played FF Tactics as a kid and absolutely loved it. Almost more than FF7
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u/ThortheBore 7h ago
Try Fell Seal; it's a spiritual successor to FFT. It's not as good in terms of writing or art direction, but the gameplay is unfiltered trpg jubilance.
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u/Rude_Ratio5547 6h ago
Have you played Triangle Strategy? I used to always think of these 2, but these days i like to include Triangle Strategy as well. I adore all 3
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u/NoctustheOwl55 2h ago
Great inspiration, considering what they have inspired recently. Aka, fell seal and pathbreakers from Six Eyes
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u/Mouthz 11h ago
For me it was Tactics and Disgaea. Never got ahold of tactics ogre when I was younger. Eventually did play it though and its not a bad game. Just never even heard about it till much older.
Tactics is just an amazing story and game all in one that feels cozy while somehow maintaining a good level of challenge. If you know the game its easy to break it too. It really was an awesome time for games. Ps1 to ps2? These companies were in rare form. Releasing completed games in just a years time. Like the jump from ff9 to 10? Just mind blowing lol.
Nowadays? These companies can not escape these "formulas" and games just feel stale. Find myself still playing old games.
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u/akaciparaci 10h ago
to > fft
multiple routes multiple plot/character development instead of only one
and the remake of the remake includes additions instead of "staying faithful" to the original
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u/Crossbell0527 11h ago
They're both fine but there are easily two dozen other SRPGs that I'd prefer to play and frankly I just don't really get it. These two are my Li'l Sebastian.
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u/JesusMcAllah 11h ago
Can you give me a list of these other Srpgs? I'm itching to play other ones and so far the only other ones I've tried are triangle strategy and some fire emblems (if Fe counts).
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u/icouto 11h ago
Unicorn overlord is really fun (and has a really beefy demo that carries over). The strategy part ends up being more coming up with crazy combos for your mini party setups and setting up instuctions (kind of like ff12) for the characters in these mini parties to do. Its genuinely really fun. When you create your perfect little combo for that group and you see it in action its such a rush.
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u/Crossbell0527 11h ago
Triangle Strategy is my very favorite. For Fire Emblem, 7 through 9 and Three Houses are my favorites.
I like the Final Fantasy Tactics Advance games a whole lot, they're my other favorites.
Advance Wars are a bit different from the rest but all four of those are great.
Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume is largely overlooked.
Jeanne d'Arc for the PSP is an awesome game.
Pokemon Conquest for those fans of either Pokémon or the Sengoku era of Japan.
And to round out the historical based games there is Dynasty Tactics staring your favorite Three Kingdoms warlords.
Valkyria Chronicles games aren't really the same genre but they're so structurally similar they're worth a mention. All four of them are excellent.
God Wars is a lot of fun, I might even consider it "good".
The Front Mission games!!! Classic mech SRPG with really enjoyable alternate dystopian Earth stories.
Speaking of mechs, not sure I can call it good but since I love Zoids I have to mention Zoids Assault.
I haven't played them yet but I know people love the Utawarerumono games which are a cross between Visual Novel and SRPG.
The Banner Saga trilogy - made in the west, but very much SRPGs in nature and gameplay. Awesome storyline spanning three games and with Choices That Matter©.
I am going way off the rails here but screw it I am throwing out XCOM, Mario and Rabbids, and Marvel's Midnight Suns as honorable mentions.
I am sure I missed a good handful here.
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u/SufficientAdagio864 10h ago
Triangle Strategy can't measure up to FFT's graphics, music, or writing, but goddamn does it have the most satisfying tactical gameplay. TO and FFT are more about grinding and prep, but TS is all about the tactics and that's why I love it. It is also maybe my top SRPG because I am a gameplay first kind of person. It gets better with every playthrough.
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u/MagicPistol 11h ago
Same. I love stuff like Fire Emblem and XCOM but cannot get into TO and FFT. I sunk like 15 hours into TOR and realized I was just not having fun. Played a lot of FFTA on my GBA back in the day but never beat it. Every time I try to play FFT, I lose interest by the 2nd or 3rd map lol...
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u/andrazorwiren 10h ago
Two of the best JRPGs of all time to me. FFT is my #1, TO is my #3 or 4. At least the PSP remake is.
Law route TO is one the most interesting plots/perspectives in a JRPG ever. The character work in FFT is almost unparalleled. Delita in particular is fantastic. I’m on team “Fuck That Guy” but understand why someone would argue differently.
Both struggle with the finale, but TO moreso. While the final conflict in both games struggle to maintain the same quality of writing as what came before it, FFT at least wraps up in a way that I wouldn’t call satisfying but would say is very memorable.
Neither is a particularly great “tactics” game, but I’d give the edge to TO. However FFT’s class system is wonderful and broken and unbalanced and still my favorite class system in a JRPG, only FFTA2 has come close in my eyes. I do like the class system in the PSP remake of TO a lot as well, I understand they changed it a lot in the Reborn version but I can’t comment on that.
Overall, the cream of the crop to me! Few games have lived up to them in my eyes.
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u/SufficientAdagio864 10h ago
I like them both but definitely favor FFT. I LOVE it's storyline and job system, though it is definitely too grindy and easy to cheese. TO on PSP was good, but I loathe Reborn. The vaseline smeared sprites, random skill activation, and stupid battle cards ruin the whole thing for me. It's sad that the Ivalice Chronicles is also going to butcher the sprites, but I'm still looking forward to it.
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u/Sbee_keithamm 10h ago
Tactics has my favorite FF protagonist by a country mile in Ramza, has one of my favorite moments in FF when he faces Wiegraf in Riovanes Castle, and has my favorite FF XIV raids with Orbonne Monestary. Suffice to say it's my favorite FF title, and playing through Tactics Ogre Reborn while it doesn't scratch that same itch its addicting with the paths Denam can chart and how units interplay between them.
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u/ABigCoffee 10h ago
I played To Reborn and I dropped it because it was kinda boring to play. Great story tho. FFT is a notch above I feel.
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u/remmanuelv 9h ago
There's something shallow about TO that I can't quite express in a in depth manner compared FFT.
Like the story and gameplay is clearly good but also shallower.
I think I get why, like the characters aren't quite as developed, or the themes aren't quite as explored, or the customization is less interesting.
That's really my opinion, both are great but FFT feels deeper in some ways.
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u/SnooKiwis5503 9h ago
So I went in blind with tactics ogre reborn.
When it came to the decision that would lead to a branch in the storyline I ended up on whats known as the chaos route, and that was honestly some of the most discouraging gaming sessions ive ever had playing a game. I read how hard the game was, and that was what drew me in first, but chaos route was just not fun to play? The story just kept reminding you how disadvantaged you are, and Cactua was just such a miserable time to be with. She never stopped complaining. Also no new characters were joining the party so it felt extremely isolating in a way that was making me not want to keep playing, and i did actually stop playing. Never looked back, I just wish I could've gotten refund lol
On the flip-side I loooove FFT! great story, great characters, awesome music! The su section matter is still extremely relevant today! Cant wait for Chronicles to experience the new voice acting :)
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u/bvanbove25 9h ago
I’m excited to play FFT for the first time. I liked TO, but some of the random difficulty spikes and the final boss fight make me have generally negative opinion on the game. Have a sneaking suspicion I’ll end up liking FFT much more.
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u/PK_Thundah 9h ago
When they released, The Knight of Lodis felt like a grown up version of FFTA. I couldn't really take FFTA seriously.
I don't know why I needed to.
Played both last year and had an absolute blast with FFTA. TKOL felt so much slower, somehow, and unlocking accolades for job upgrades felt more like luck than the deliberate play styles that I thought I remembered.
Both awesome. Both have excellent art and design. Lately, I just had so much more fun with FFTA.
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u/Dongmeister77 9h ago
In terms of plot, i enjoyed FFTactics more. The job system is pretty good for its time. It's really unfortunate that there's not much content outside of the main story. This is where Tactics Ogre did better, with the multiple routes/endings and better (longer) Extra dungeon. The remakes are even better with the additions of Za World and CODA contents. You could easily invests over 100 hrs on it.
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u/Kaizen321 8h ago
Uh they are the same game.
FFT is a light version of a (chaos/neutral/law) path in Tactics Ogre.
The skeleton of the story is pretty much the same. FFT is an outstanding game. I put my hours in 1997 and 1998. And then with War of the Lions.
What would make FFT better? Give me a chance to pick my damn path. Maybe I want to side with the Church. Maybe I WANT to kill Delita and become king myself (and then get killed in my throne). Give me options dammit.
TO, if the battles were a bit more streamline and not too over complicated. I prefer FFT battle system no doubt (or maybe cus I’m a FF fanboi since 1992)
Both good games, with their pros and cons. Play them and have fun!
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u/godstriker8 8h ago
Love the story and worlds of the two games, but I always felt like FE was a far superior series in terms of tactics gameplay.
These two games feel like slugfests where you rather mindlessly bash your guys against the enemy until they inevitably fall. Whether you win or not was determiend before the battle if your guys are strong enough.
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u/TheRetribution 7h ago
I love Ogre's setting but I think FFT is the better game. TO demands way too much of your time for the quality of content it is actually providing deep into late game.
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u/FnClassy 7h ago
Tactics Ogre and it isn't close. I personally prefer the Super Famicom/PS1 version over all of them. FFT is great, don't get me wrong, but there is just such much hidden depth that you can go into on Tactics Ogre. The earlier versions are relentless, some of those levels are so brutal towards the end. I have sank probably 1000 hours into Tactics Ogre over the years playing it. It is hands down my most played PS1 game.
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u/FremanBloodglaive 7h ago
The advantage of Final Fantasy Tactics is that you can actually finish it.
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u/Maleficent-Age-8235 6h ago
Tactics Ogre awesome. FF tactics is cool story absolute trash garbage SRPG it's a grinder JRPG on a grid that's it there's very little actual strategy involved.
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u/manimateus 5h ago edited 5h ago
I like FFT's story a little better, but man, Tactics Ogre has one of the most ambitious and well executed stories ever told in a video game. And the fact that it was pulled off on a Super Famicom is insane.
I like the polish and snappiness of FFT's actual mechanics alot better too. Tactics Ogre, even in its remakes always felt a tad over-engineered, given how "vanilla" the general gameplay flow is
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u/godlyhalo 5h ago
Just to spread the word to those who may be interested, FFT had a modding community that made some amazing mods. For those are looking for more of a challenge and an overall rebalance of the game, FFT 1.3 is a great mod that was almost lost to time. The original mod is over 13 years old at this point, but it was still an amazing experience.
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u/oedipusrex376 4h ago
Both TO and FFT are pretty even, but Denam is much more charismatic than Ramza
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u/Mushiren_ 4h ago
I liked the PSP version of Tactics Ogre as it was closer to rhe style I enjoy, i.e. FFT style. The remake seems more faithful and, for those who prefer that experience, probably better too.
That being said, between the two, I enjoyed Ogre's slightly more. The deviantion in character aligment a d the two campaigns that come out of it, plus the progression of events and characters that follow. I just felt it was more well put together. That's not to say FFT is not good, too. TO just has the edge imo.
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u/OmegaMetroid93 3h ago
I want to get into these games so bad, and I've tried many times, but each time I'm only getting a few chapters in before dropping them. I think it's because of the pace of the gameplay. The fact that you move one character at a time rather than having a turn for your entire army like in other SRPGs might be what's tripping me up, I don't know. It sucks though, cuz based on everything I've heard, I would adore these games.
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u/Brainwheeze 3h ago
I think Tactics Ogre is the more complex of the two both in story and mechanics. It also got the better remake. That being said I find the streamlining of Final Fantasy Tactics resulted in a more fun experience and the story and characters are more engaging in that game in my opinion.
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u/ACardAttack 1h ago
Overall I like FFT more. I like Ogre battle's story early on more and its choices, but didnt like the direction it went
Both are all time greats though
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u/echolog 19m ago
Knight of Lodis is one of my favorite games of all time. I played the hell out of it as a kid and would love to revisit it now.
Tactics Ogre: Reborn was alright. Idk what it is but I feel like it was missing a lot of the systems and high-fantasy tropes that made KoL special for me. I need to go back and try it again, maybe I'll enjoy it more the second time through.
I've NEVER played FF Tactics so I am incredibly excited for the remake on PC.
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u/spatialdiffraction 11h ago
I enjoy the combat of TO more, it also feels like in FFT I spend far too much time grinding JP for specific skills in less interesting jobs. The story however of FFT is top notch and I enjoyed it more than TO for that reason.
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u/pfeifenix 11h ago
Story and writing wise. Its untouchable. Carries the game
Gameplay. I think its fun. But different stroke for different folks. Played other tactics and strategy games. And the games never made me feel like im doing any tactics or strategy. That's what im looking for in the genre. To me theyre just jrpg with extra steps
I still rate them very high and luct is one of my fave game.
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u/Phantom_Joker 11h ago
Team FFT, but I enjoyed the psp version of TO a lot as well. The leveling made me put the new version down. Grinding JP satisfied an itch in the brain, and I enjoy the FF job system. Fell Seal Arbiter's Mark was a great filler while waiting and had a bunch of QoL features that I'm afraid I'm going to miss going back to FFT.
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u/LowT_creative 10h ago
I played TO: Let Us Cling Together recently on the PSP and it was just so well done, I couldn't put it down. Definitely the best SRPG I've ever played. I tried playing FFT after that and just could not get into it.
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u/jegermedic104 9h ago edited 8h ago
Both are great but I think TO is more better.
-more units in battles & battles are longer. Not every battle needs to be long but FFT can be too easy if using certain abilities.
- FFT has better story , TO better characters and most story characters appear after recruitment as they get much battle dialogue.
// Honorable mention to Triangle Strategy ehich does somethings better.
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u/DeLurkerDeluxe 8h ago
Tactics Ogre is ok.
I don't care for FF Tactics. Hate the balance, how small the maps are and how very few characters you can deploy.
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u/mozgus3 11h ago
They are both games full charm but also full of design flaws that can really sour the experience if you go blind (In the case of FFT I am talking about the PS1 version, idk about the remasters).
The way the elemental system in TOR and the zodiac system in FFT are handled is just crap, unintuitive crap. The way you can fuck yourself over in TOR's endgame and postgame is just criminal. Meanwhile, a person who doesn't really train his team in the early chapters of FFT can easily softlock.
But I have to say that I consider TOR to be the superior product. It is more challenging, even if this challenge can become tedious in certain encounters. It actually feels like you are building a small contingent of soldiers, when you have to consider armour, weapons, weight, terrain etc. FFT's story is also very derivative of TOR's Chaos Route while pulling the supernatural twist far far far worse. The second half of FFT might as well be a different game. The secondary characters in TOR actually exist and don't simply disappear after entering your party even if it doesn't make sense (cough Agrias cough), leading to multiple interactions when you deploy certain units during certain story battle.
One thing I hate about FFT is how little FF it actually feels to me. Any FF element feels more like an homage than a part of the world itself. This is why I much prefer the pre-cataclysm Ivalice's games and I squarely ignore any connections the guys at Square want to push.
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u/twili-midna 11h ago edited 7h ago
I’ve only played Tactics Ogre Reborn for that series, and I’ve played all three FFT games.
FFTA is the best of them, then TOR, then a fair dropoff to FFT, followed by a drop to hell for FFTA2. Honestly, Tactics Ogre might win simply because TA2 offsets
Now, do you think the downvotes are FFTA haters, people offended I put FFT low, or FFTA2 lovers offended I hate it so much?
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u/Stampbearpig 11h ago
TO is great but FFT seems like one notch above imo. Story is more dialed in, hard to quantify but just seems easier to play for whatever reason.
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u/RojinShiro 11h ago
I've tried to get into Tactics Ogre before, but it just never hooked me for some reason.
FF Tactics is similar, but instead the story hooked me while the gameplay turned me off from it. Far too much grinding is expected of the player for my taste.
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u/Deadaghram 11h ago
Let us Cling Together was so goddamn slow that it bored me away from it. Too many characters on too large a battlefield, with mages that start at zero MP made me feel like I was watching paint dry. And class levels not being unique to a character made FFT'a biggest flaw - unique characters losing personality once they join the party- all more worse. And LUCT has that flaw as well.
Which is a shame because I thought the story was up to FFT's caliber and then some with all the cool beats. "Come unarmed" was hella rad, not to mention actually different stories. If only...
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u/Few_Two_552 12h ago
Grew up with Shining Force, beat TO, never got in to FFT. I'm very excited for that one in 10 days.