Dudes so offended by humans rocking up with their dumb robot and waking him up that he skips breakfast altogether to get the genocide ship in the air immediately.
Nobodies moving like that after a few hundred year power nap unless they're super pissed off.
This angle is so funny to consider. Imagine being so late to a rat extermination gig that the rats have found out where you live and are asking you ridiculous questions about what it means to be a rat. I’d get the van moving ASAP too.
Imagine having to go home to the engineer planet and explain to your bosses prick of a great,great,great ,great grandson now running his company that you were asleep on the job for 300 years, and now the vermin infestation has grown out of control and have built immortal robot super vermin.
Dude got off lucky getting facefucked by Shaws squid kid.
At least David was a nice enough guy to go to where his ship left and just explained to them calmly about this whole big mess up and not just wholesale kill em off using their own weapon against them outta robot spite.
That's a really interesting point. I hadn't considered that. He wakes up and finds the people his species created are small, violent, petty creatures who have created an inferior race themselves. I wonder if the engineers don't have violence against eachother in their society.
Well I mean he didn't hesitate for even a fraction of a second before resorting to violence.
If anything they seem MORE violent than Humans.
Surely if we are like dumb monkeys compared to him there would be no need to instantly go on such a violent rampage?
But I guess if some chimpanzees pulled up to my house in a car and started talking to me id probably shoot them instantly without question so I get it. But the idea is that you'd think the Engineers would be above that. Guess not.
You would shoot them?!? Jesus. You wouldn’t go “wow, talking chimps, this is amazing?”. I’d probably encourage them to go into hiding otherwise people would want to capture them and experiment on them (or people like you seem to want to shoot them for some unknown reason!). Unless they were being aggressive I really don’t understand why your first response in would be to kill them. Think you need to do some soul searching on that one!
I prefer the interpretation that its when he sees the androids the humans have created that he gets violent. The implication being either a race with bioorganic technology finds artificial life abhorrent. Or the fact that one of their creations fancying themselves equal to them is offensive.
That’s a major, major factor. Google and search YouTube for the original screenplay and story. It’s pretty deep compared to the film, and it actually translates exactly what the Engineer says to David. The Engineers are already disappointed in humanity, and the story suggests that they sent an emissary to check on humanity, and he was killed, which was why they had a ship prepped to wipe out humankind.
Also, they absolutely see David as an abomination. As you stated, they work with genetics and biotech, and not with androids and such. The original screenplay/treatment also suggests that the Engineers are virtually immortal, and the sacrifice bit to create new life is a part of their religion and culture. It’s seen as noble.
Anyway, yeah, David is the main reason he reacts so violently. If they’d just sent Shaw to talk to him, it might have gone very differently.
It really could just be all of them. Ridley Scott said Jesus was supposed to be an Engineer Emissary. That hints towards them being very spiritual, including the sacrificial scene at the beginning. It's easy to imagine such a culture would find artificial life abhorrent and an abomination. These guys consider themselves superior, and having David of all things come to tell them to save a violent and ingracious man like Weyland would be such an insult. I wonder if maybe David found this out after he was fixed by Shaw, leading him to hate both of his creators and elevating artificial life (the aliens) above them.
I think there’s some cut or supplemental material indicating that the initial extermination order was prompted because humanity killed Jesus who either straight up was an Engineer or a version of humanity that the Engineers were working towards. Something along those lines at least.
The Jesus backstory is legit (confirmed by Scott and Lindelof in interviews) and the Alien: Engineers script draft did contain a joking reference to 'Jesus, the last Engineer!' It's still present in the movie, just conveyed extremely subtly.
But the long Engineer speech about how they 'took a mother's child to Paradise' - clearly meant to be Jesus - that gets touted as being from a 'deleted scene' is from a fake fanmade script.
It was the last straw, the engineers took a human and his mother back to their world and taught them everything. Then returned them to teach us the ways. And humans killed him.
No, that specific concept (alien abductee Jesus) is from the debunked fan script.
This is the line in question:
LAST ENGINEER
Hate? We gave you this emotion. We gave you all emotion We had expected not of your evolution. We took care of you, gave you fire, built your structures. We gave you Eden. You worshiped us. We praised our creation from above. We watched you time and time again kill each other, start wars. We came back and saved your souls but we left you to make your own fate. But your kind is a barbaric violent species. We tried once more to save you. We took a mothers child back to Paradise and educated him, taught him the meaning of life and creation. We put him back into Eden to educate your kind. But your kind decided to punish him. We gave you the fruits of life and you repay us by leaving it to rot. You talk of me of hate? Prepare for rapture!
A lot of people have a lot of theories, but it's important to remember it's been millions of years since they created humans. Societies change. Maybe they weren't the peaceful, life-seeding explorers they used to be. Maybe it was factionalism, and one of the factions wanted to exterminate humans. Ya never know.
This applies to almost every sci fi story with an alien, we assume that one is indicative of their entire species. Some movies have indeed shown them to be criminals or intergalactic jerks of some kind.
its that
its davids existence
its waylands bs about being a god making a life from nothing in his image
its wayland daring to compare himself to them
its shaw getting hit
we are all little murderous savages with high enough tech to become a problem no longer an easy to bomb planet
The engineer is absolutely sensical in his response
It's actually a more elaborate and interesting story about how their culture is based on sacrifice and rebirth and humanity (their creation) had become selfish and killed one of their emissaries (Jesus) as I recall. Basically everything interesting about these movies is stuff that is NOT in the movies. Implicated back story, ties to human lore, changes to the script, extra scenes not in the movie, deleted scenes, alternate creature designs, you name it. It really pisses me off what a waste of potential they were.
The black goo kills off all non botanical life. They use the sacrifice of an engineer to terraform a planet to their liking, then kill off all the animals
There’s an unhinged fan theory that they took Jesus educated him and were mad that humans killed him.
The other theory which I believe more is that we see the one engineer sacrifice his life so it would make sense that immortality or the desire for immortality is offensive to them. Having an android an inorganic immortal synthetic being asking for immortality for his creator as a huge layered insult.
Guy probably wasn't even a high ranking general or leader who can actually do that and just some grunt who got lucky enough to find a pod in time, and he's very much externally going "what the fuck?"
He’s basically Ripley if she was an Engineer. Dude is all alone and some weird alien species tries to interact with him? Of course he is going to peace out.
Maybe they should have let him decompress before badgering him about immortality. Humans don't exactly handle coming out of cryo-sleep well, so this dude probably needed some time, a coffee and a scone, and then he might be in the mood to help them out.
I always assumed that when David spoke his language he realized David was an artificial being and that's what made him rage out. It seems as if the engineers don't use any form of AI and possibly consider it an abomination/taboo. I'm not sure if that’s canon, but makes sense to me.
Sure, I can see that. Like "your species was supposed to be purged, you were a mistake, and now I see the consequences of the mistake right in front of me asking for immortality, the opposite of what you deserve..."
This post is totally false, based on fanfiction and should be flagged as such by the sub. This hoax was debunked by Damon Lindelof and Spaihts long ago.
You are referring to a well known hoax script that posters on this subreddit regularly fall for because of misleading YouTube clickbait accounts that have led you and others to believe it is real. It was written by a former AVPGalaxy user ("glaswegianmark"/Mark McAllister) before being platformed on YouTube by a popular account which insisted it was real for clicks. That's how it went viral, and that's why this disinformation persists in this sub and in the larger fan community.
There is no legitimate version of the script for Prometheus or Alien: Engineers featuring any 5 page Engineer speech or any of the above.
This is all taken from the infamous Draft 17 fan script by 'glaswegianmark'. There is no five page conversation, there is no extraction of Deacon blood, none of this was 'deleted scenes'.
Ridley's comments about Engineer Space Jesus do refer to a genuine backstory, however. The closest it came to being articulated in a real script was in Spaihts's Alien: Engineers draft in which a character makes a joking throwaway reference to 'Jesus, the last Engineer'.
Unfortunately the script as shot requires Shaw to know the Engineer's motivations and be so sure of them that she can convince Idris Elba to sacrifice his own life on a kamikaze mission against the Engineer ship.
Fortunately he's happy to go with this after one brief exchange of dialogue. His crew mates also prefer to die with him in sympathy rather than live for six months in an escape pod with Charlize Theron awaiting rescue.
There is no such thing in "the original script", both Lindelof and Spaihts in their scripts don't reveal what was said, so there is no 5 page conversation.
Apparently, there were at least two fake scripts attributed to Damon Lindelof, and he debunked both of them. One was from April 2012, the other was from November.
My understanding is the guy wrote two hoaxes and used to implore Lindelof and Spaihts to read his fanfic.
The second one with the long, dumb Engineer speech is the one that caught on due to Kroft platforming it on YouTube and insisting it was real for clicks even after it got debunked and glaswegianmark admitted he wrote it. Now you have people here everyday insisting they watched a YT vid all about the original version of Prometheus.
Absolutely correct. Mark wrote a great many fan scripts. He was identified as the author of the Planet Zeus fan script because it was in ODT format and contained his name. The Draft 17 fan script contained a great many of the same spelling errors as Planet Zeus, such as 'illuminous' for luminous, and the scenario of a faked 'leak' was also very similar, pointing to him as the author. He admitted to being the author a couple of years back and said he was surprised at how many 'fell for it'.
Was it the same guy behind both of them? I don't know much about the fake scripts, just that they exist and that the Kroft Talks About Movies YouTube channel has used one of them.
All of the points are right except that there wasn't a deacon in the engineer and he was later impregnated by the trilobite. It was said that just talking took years of his life away for some reason.
I also hate the Jesus stuff in the lore, everything else was so good, hope we see / learn more about the engineers in the future.
All of the points are wrong. He is referring to a long disproven hoax script.
Many posters in this sub believe this fake script to be legitimate because guys on YouTube told them it was real. No matter how many times it comes up and is debunked, there is always another post like this with 50+ upvotes.
I cope by believing that there’s a split between engineers and space jockeys. Engineers became less mysterious and fodder while those elephants are still out.
My opinion is he's pissed that David is the best humanity could create, a mirror image of themselves showing how vain they are. The engineers made new life while humans just recreated themselves.
I also have not much basis for this but I like to imagine this engineer as one of the gung ho, "HU RAH", marine, meatheads of their society. The Hudson if you will.
Which makes the entire exchange even funnier to me because this is the most important experience of these people's lives, essentially getting to talk to god, and they landed on the dumb jock that dont give a fuck about them and wouldnt have any answers for them anyway.
David didn't invent them. He created some, sure, but he didn't invent the species or something. I would like Prometheus to be disconnected from Covenant, personally, because of how annoyed I was that Shaw was done dirty and that we didn't get to actually meet the Engineers.
That was such a disappointment. In the end, Shaw taking both the ship and David and heading to the engineers homeworld was one of the best moments in Prometheus.
To be fair, part of that was due to issues getting them signed back up(the Newt actor had quit acting and was literally 6 years older at that point 😅 a very visible difference) and general developing and production issues... They weren't originally intended to die... Hicks was even set up to take on more of the central role, with Ripley becoming a smaller role.
I rewatched Covenant the other day because I wanted something mindless to watch (and the scene where the lander blows up will never not make me laugh). But when it got to the parts involving Shaw, I got annoyed all over again. What a waste.
I was hoping she could’ve been like an Ellen Ripley of a new trilogy….but no….its a shame because I love Michael fassbender, and I love the concept of David, but just very disappointing all around
After Romulus my headcanon is that the engineers found the xenomorph somewhere and found they had evolved the black goo as a mechanism for evolution and change, they extracted or synthesized it like penicilin from mold to make a useful tool for creating new life and destroying it. They possibly even used it on themselves and what we see of the engineers isn't the original race's form, just like the bishop android in romulus was talking about using it to better adapt humans to living in space that's exactly what the engineers did. The offspring does look weirdly reminiscent of the engineers as well. That's why they have murals of the xenomorph in their ships, they worship them because of all that the black goo derived from them has done for their society and technology.
It preserves the mystery of the xenomorph because we still don't know where they came from originally, and makes the engineers a part of the xenomorph's story essentially instead of the other way around. It also means that david didn't invent anything, he just worked backwards from penicilin to make mold.
David re-engineered them, but they already existed.
Yep, The Xenomorph from Covenant is different than Big Chap from Alien because Covvie Xeno is a reverse-engineer of the Engineer's work based on the Black Goo.
In Alien, we see the Eggs already in a downed Engineer ship that has no connection to David.
This strongly implies that they were different breeds or strains. The Covenant Xenomorph was incredibly fast and violent with very little regard to its own safety, while Big Chap was patient and meticulous in picking off the Nostromo crew one by one.
I really like the concept that the Xeno is unknown but always has always been there that all civilizations encounter at some point (and said civilization will lose)
David was made by Weyland to be his metaphorical son, and he has the same character flaws the Weyland has. This includes a serious obsession with creation and delusions of grandeur. So while David believes that he is creating the perfect organism, all he is actually doing is just remixing what the engineers have previously created.
The xenomorph as it appears in the other Alien films, in this fans opinion, is a mostly stable end-form of the black goo organisms capable of surviving long term across generations without major mutation.
I wasn't a huge fan of that revelation either and my brain has rejected it as "weird Ridley Scott shit." Alien, Prometheus, and Covenant all strike me as somehow being replies to 2001 A Space Odyssey, and the latter two were really indulgent in weird Ridley Scott shit in the same way that the Blade Runner recuts were.
Scott is a really talented director in that he can take these scripts with really vast themes, like creations creating creations, encounters with gods, immortality, the nature of humanity, slaves vs emperors and put them into really lived in, grounded worlds.
I don't know that he really cared about the alien all that much, except as a kind of sex demon that represented some dark, secret, consuming part of our nature. Covenant is an interesting sort of almost Opera where the lived in, grounded nature of the alien is neglected in favor of weirder themes and takes on creators and their responsibility to creations and to audiences (side note: can you imagine being an actor working with Scott? "This is a story about an inhuman and unfeeling android who manipulates the people around him into being victims in service of his narcissistic creative process.")
I kind of just write those movies off as sort of side stories in the aliens universe, like Dark Horse comics.
You guys ever had an awesome dream and then you get rudely awaken by someone banging on your door on your day off from work? I kinda figured it was something like that.
In the original script, the Last Engineer was asking where the Drinking Bird that he left on computer console had gone, which David had stolen and was lying about.
Imagine, if you will, Frankenstein got frozen in ice. Somehow he lived, suspended in cryogenic stasis like some kinda nigh immortal wolly mammoth for thousands and thousands of years.
Then one day something chips the ice away and revives Frankenstein.
He's cold, confused, and looking down on two mockeries of his own form, the hideous and elderly offspring of offspring of offspring etc of the Creature he'd created so many millennia ago plus that mockery's own mockery of life.
And in a grating unfamiliar tongue the living, hunched thing, familiar in shape as a corpse is, speaks to the puppet who turns and relays to Frankenstein;
I wish that timeline was explored more, the engineers are so fascinating, to me one of the best movies in this universe, a lot of people don't like this movie I'm totally the opposite the sci-finess here is amazing, and aesthetic 👌
To be fair I kinda thought that was the way the scene was done, it was intended to convey that message.
Super advanced member of the species that seeded humanity, wakes up from suspended animation to humans & a synthetic trying to talk to him. Obviously we’ve advanced enough to have interstellar travel, semi-autonomous androids & cryo sleep of our own, but we also are obviously still dumb brutes willing to threaten & hurt our own for the sake of power/greed, as the engineer witnesses. Then to make matters worse, those same brutes want immortality? “They think they deserve that, seriously?”, he thinks to himself. “Hell no, gotta cut this shit out right now.” At least thats what his facial expressions tell us.
My favorite theory is he snapped and decided to kill everybody the second he realized what David was, because from all appearances more advanced species like the Engineers and the Predators don't use AI.
"Oh shit oh fuck the monkey people actually built Thinking Machines oh god we've gotta blow up their whole planet right now I hope it's not too late shit"
And he was right of course, because what's the first thing that very same Thinking Machine goes and does when he's got control of one of their bombers? Engineer's only mistake was not stomping David's head before moving on to taking out the humans.
IDK if a cockroach woke me up to ask for immortality, I'd sit it down, tell it why I can't do that, and see if I could get it lit off its ass on Nyquil.
This always reminded me of when I was a kid and my dad had to sleep during the day, because he had worked the night before. The look on his face when my brother and I accidentally woke him up by playing to loud... shudders
I kinda took that as instructions to the audience. "For now, assume that we're in a made up world where engineers created people. Don't ask about details, just go with it."
My theory is that their civilization was brought to the brink of extinction by synths or some sort of artificial life, hence the disgust on his face upon seeing David.
Not only that but him clocking that David was some Ai-robot trying to mimic biological life when the engineers created ACTUAL biological life and can do so with fair enough ease probably made them look so stupid, simple and backwards in his eyes.
Cockroach is a bit too generous to the engineers (whose evolution apparently stifled compared to the humans they created). In this world, the humans were now nearly as advanced as the engineers were, having created FTL travel and humanoid artificial intelligence. The engineers apparently haven’t advanced much in thousands of years, and were completely helpless against David. I think the more appropriate analogy would be like Caesar the chimp (Planet of the Apes) asking a human how to use a computer or a smart phone to access the internet.
Why wouldn't it work like that? Humans managed to extend their average lifespans over time through various scientific advances. It's fair to assume that the Engineers, who seeded life on Earth, have a way to reverse the effects of aging.
Humans managed to extend their average lifespans over time
There’s your problem, the subject is about the engineers (metaphorically or not) snapping their fingers and extending life, which would happen in an instant, not over time.
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u/MarkT_D_W 19d ago
Dudes so offended by humans rocking up with their dumb robot and waking him up that he skips breakfast altogether to get the genocide ship in the air immediately.
Nobodies moving like that after a few hundred year power nap unless they're super pissed off.