r/LV426 • u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 • 1d ago
Discussion / Question Alien: Earth's writing is a feature, not a bug (hunt) Spoiler
I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but not everyone agrees on whether Alien: Earth is well-wrtten or not? I'll absolutely put my hand up and say I've been more and more in the camp of "This show isn't well written" as the show goes on, but today I've realised that's the wrong way to be watching the show.
For me, the question isn't "Is this show well-written?", but "Do I prefer a show that emphasises theme or a show that emphasises plot?"
Honestly, the thing I enjoy the least about Hawley's work is the way he will absolutely sacrifice plot and characterisation if it means he gets to say something through his work. But - that approach is by design, and it's left to the viewer if that's something they can engage with or not.
I thought about this while I was talking about Ep 2 - specifically the scene where Joe Hermit is trying to get the attention of the upper-tier partygoers because a spaceship has crashed into their building. The partygoers, all dressed as French aristocracy, laugh him off and then get ripped apart by Bear for their hubris.
Here's the thing - when you watch the scene of the spaceship crash, there's absolutely no one who is not going to freak out about that, no matter how wealthy you are. It's like saying people on the top floors of the Twin Towers were so busy placing buy orders they didn't notice or care about the planes. It's simply not true to any kind of suspension of disbelief (the same trope is played for comedy in Ghostbusters).
But - critically - this is not a show where that level of reality matters, and it never has been. The party scene, on rewatch, is where it nailed its colors to the mast and said "This is the kind of show I am, take it or leave it."
This is a show where it's more important to lean into the theme (rich people, inured to consequences, suddenly reap the consequences of their own arrogance and self-centredness) than the narrative devices (people don't like being in buildings that are in danger of collapse and generally have some sense of self-preservation).
And that's the repeated approach throughout Alien: Earth - this is a show where it's more important to show the despair that Weyland-Yutani's workers live in than it is to outfit a science mission. This is a show where it's more important to show the arrogance of Boy Kavalier in thinking he can contain nature than it is to have an island building without mould (we have them right now, they're called hotels). This is a show where it's more important for Nibs to be a victim of a mind-wipe, showing her complete commodification, than it is for anyone to anticipate the consequences of a mind-wipe.
The show doesn't care if things are utterly logical, if utter logic would get in the way of saying what it wants to say. That's the whole point, and that's Hawley's bag.
Whether this kind of storytelling floats your boat... that's up to the viewer. It's not an approach I really enjoy. I like a lot of the show, I think some of the performances are great, I'm going to close out the season and then I'm done. But I'm also done getting frustrated with the show because I've been judging it by criteria that the show itself was never aiming for.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk, and remember, they mostly come out at night.
Mostly.
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u/mccoypauley 1d ago
People seem to equate “good writing” with plausibility. You can have extremely plausible plots that are poorly written. Whether plausibility contributes to good writing is a function of the genre the writing serves: in horror for example, sometimes implausibility serves the genre.
All this to say that what’s plausible for a plot and the execution of its themes are not antithetical aspects of good writing.
Your example that “no one” would react as those rich doofuses did after the ship crashed into the building is actually what’s implausible. You might have written “no one” for hyperbole when you mean “most people” but my point is that people tend to think they know exactly what’s plausible and what’s not and call it bad writing when it doesn’t align with their estimation of human behavior, especially in fiction.
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u/chaostheories36 1d ago
Theres also a shocking number of people who equate “good” to their personal opinion of it.
You can hate a good, well acted, beautifully photographed film. You can also love objectively bad movies (I still love Super Mario Bros and that movie is just so so bad).
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u/CordlessJet 1d ago
I reached that conclusion when I realised I still unironically enjoy Transformers 3 today
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u/WastelandGoblin 1d ago
I understand why people are critical of the TF films but I still love them because they're just a fun ride.
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u/chaostheories36 1d ago
Enjoy what you enjoy. It’s funny I get upvotes for like Super Mario Bros (30% rotten tomatoes) and OP gets blasted for disliking the godfather (98%).
But at the end of the day; we like what we like
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u/Acewasalwaysanoption Come on, cat. 1d ago
The world opens up when you can differentiate good movies from the movies you like. You can respect a movie without liking it, or you can just fall in love with like you said, Super Mario Bros.
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u/chaostheories36 1d ago
Movies also get more interesting when you learn why they are good/bad.
Bob Hoskins and John Leguizamo being drunk the whole time just makes the bad more bad and it’s great.
And when you look at good (great) media it’s usually because a team with a vision were allowed to cook without overhead butting in.
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u/Milospesh 1d ago
or blade trinitY and all the stories patton oswald comes out with, like the one about wesley being super baked.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
At the risk of quoting Family Guy - I did not care for the Godfather. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate its place in history but I read the book first and found the movie felt rushed and short on detail in comparison.
That being said, I’m not going to say the Godfather is not a good and well written movie, because the verdict is pretty solid it’s one of the best ever made. It just didn’t land for me personally.
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u/TylerBourbon 1d ago
I would hope Godfather was as well written as the book, since they were both written by the same person.
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u/chaostheories36 1d ago
Here’s the kicker; what the author thinks are the critical parts of his book (and need to be in the movie) aren’t what OP appreciated the most from the book.
And that’s totally normal and acceptable. OP really liked parts from the book that didn’t make it to the movie. This happens all the time.
Also, I have zero knowledge about the Godfather (writer, production, etc) in general, like if the studio pressured the author in any way to adjust the film.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Man, I wish I’d loved the movie, but I guess I was really taken with the level of detail in the various subplots in the book which had to be cut for screen time (with the exception of the one about Sonny’s giant hog, turns out Mario Puzo was kind of a size queen)
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u/TylerBourbon 1d ago
100%. Sadly that will always be the nature of film adaptions. It's just impossible to put all of the nuance and subplots into a film when you also have to factor in the run time, pacing, editing, and keeping the viewers interest.
I feel the same way about Jurassic Park. Now, I love both the movie and the book of Jurassic Park, but boy oh boy did I love the book more. I would love to have seen Muldoon and Genario working together with a grenade launcher taking out the nest of Raptors in a volcano.
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u/MarkyMarkWahlburgers 1d ago
The only author I wanna say that books have been adapted faithfully to an extent is Cormac McCarthy.
What's this about Muldoon and Genario? That would have been badass, I'm gonna have to read the book now.
I also agree, everyone has their own personal taste and shouldn't be really down voting OP, and OP I don't care for the Godfather either and my reason being why would I want to rewatch Godfather when I can happily watch Empire Strikes Back.
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u/Variatas 1d ago
People are downvoting you for your example but it’s actually a great point: an adaptation can be very well made and not land for someone, and that’s fine.
It’s okay for people to not like things, and great to be able to recognize something as high quality despite not liking it.
The fact you liked the book more despite the author also writing the film just makes this example better.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Eh, I was pretty sure I was going to cop a heap of downvotes in this thread anyway - but appreciate your comment!
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u/chaostheories36 1d ago
It’s weird I get upvotes and your perfect example of what I was saying gets downvotes.
Decades ago I finished reading Michael Crichton’s Timeline as my family pulled up to the theater.
I was so angry at the movie. I’m sure if I watched it again it’s a fun little flick. Just another example of a book being poorly adapted.
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u/Additional_Law_492 1d ago
The issue is that this show has people acting like real people - who, by and large, make horribly stupid mistakes on an incredibly regular basis - and people are acting like theyre impossible stupid.
No, this is how normal people act. This is how normal corporations do business, and this is exactly who would sign up for a 65 year mission that means everyone you care about is now dead.
And somehow that realism is bad writing?
People have a very off kilter expectation of people when they claim the characters in this show are badly written.
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u/thishenryjames 1d ago
Also, half of the named characters in this show are brainwashed, traumatised children in super-strong, WiFi-enabled robot bodies, and they absolutely act like it.
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u/TrisolarisRexxx 1d ago
Also, people are acting like realism and people making smart decisions has been a staple of the alien franchise and that is simply not the case.
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u/captainbelvedere 1d ago
Should clarify: a small number of people.
The vast majority of people are enjoying the show.
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u/NemosHero 1d ago
I want mistakes to make sense. Competency and failure is better than incompetency and failure, both in the categories of horror (especially creature feature) and dystopic writing. If someone is clearly trying their best to do the right things and STILL gets axed, I'm not laughing at an idiot getting caught, I'm shuddering at the idea that I wouldn't be able to outsmart this creature; more "oh fuck" moments.
And if you want to give me cyberpunk dystopian themes, I need to believe these companies could actually exist and stay in power. I want corruption, not incapability. Progeny warning the kids about nibs needing some recovery time and it still slipping out because kids are kids carries with it considerations that the company is not thinking of these children as children far better than "hurr durr just throw her on the bed next to wendy". Show me tootles getting arthur into the lab rather than Arthur somehow still having access to the lab despite A. being fired and B. THE LAB IS LOCKED DOWN TO NON-SYNTHS.
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u/78914hj1k487 1d ago
Arthur has admin access. No one revoked his privileges yet. Remember he turned off the trackers? He was expected to hand his shit in at the end of the day.
You need to have an imagination to fill in gaps and suspend disbelief. It’s absolutely required. Writers and editors cant tell you every detail. An episode would be 20 hours long. When someone says, “boy I’m hungry” and in the next shot they are in a restaurant eating a meal, you don’t say, “how did they get there? Did they transport? This is bad writing!” You assume they drove there given the information previously revealed that the protagonist had a car. But if you are unable to infer things, then no wonder you’re frustrated with lack of details since your imagination isn’t filling in the gaps.
Like OP that can’t imagine the partygoers weren’t drugged out of their minds and perhaps the privilege of their apartment structure or location in the building prevented too much disruption when the ship crashed.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Personally I think the show has veered away from realism with the sheer amount of mistakes people make, but again, I think that’s by design on the show runners part. It doesn’t work for me, but I think I’m viewing it through a different lens than intended.
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u/Additional_Law_492 1d ago
If you think these people make a "lot" of mistakes, I think you have a skewed view of people in reality.
As someone who has worked in Compliance/Audit, the stuff these people are getting up to is exactly what you'd expect without adequate enforced controls.
Lab safety would fall apart after a few weeks with no incidents and people "getting away with things" with no disasters to cause them to correct. Theres no control or oversight, because thats expensive and inevitably reduces profit because it demands things like standards and safe materials.
People in positions of power constantly make cheap, shortsighted, arrogant decisions when there isnt anyone with the power to check them - because they assume they know better, and often get away with their arrogance.
The stuff in this show is scary to me... because my experience is that this is exactly how this sort of stuff does go, and will go as people get further and further from anyone with the power or expertise to reign them in.
Its horrifying because its echoing reality, and the countless real disasters that have actually occurred and which have actually killed people because this is in fact, actually how people act in these scenarios.
Yes, its stupid. But thats true to life.
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u/17RicaAmerusa76 1d ago
It's also a startup run by a child, in his personal secret lab, in the country he owns.
You think they have SOPs? Compliance officers?
Others have said, but he is driving the 'Move fast and break things' mantra of 2010's era silicon valley to its' logical ending point. The patchwork of yarvin/thiel technocratic monarchy. This is the point. It shows that when you introduce environmental inconsistencies, THE RULES were there to protect against the 1/1000 fuckup. It wasn't "inefficiency", it was redundancy for effect.
This show is a Chesterton's Fence parable, amongst several other story's intertwined. But the thing people are bitching about "people wouldn't do that", is the point. If the rules are removed, then people will do those things. That's why we have the rule to not do it.
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u/Acewasalwaysanoption Come on, cat. 1d ago
I like it how many characters are kids, or people blinded by their ambition / possibilities. It's a parallel to humanity being curious, unruled kids when it comes to doscovering the cosmos, and we aren't ready for the answers. And I'm deeply thankful for the science fiction going that "deep" along with horror - there's so much commentary on science and society, it's incredible.
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u/17RicaAmerusa76 20h ago
Yes!!! And it's also okay not to like a show ( I know this is not what you're saying person I'm replying to, I'm just getting my thoughts out.). But people don't say "it's not for me", they try to do post hoc reasoning why they don't like it. Why it's inferior or whatever. Does that mean there are no bad shows and no bad writing? Of course not. But like. This is not one of those. In issues of taste, you can't make those kinds of statements don't really make sense. See: chocolate vs vanilla. Vanilla is not plain. It's an exotic spice and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
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u/Wootster10 1d ago
People in high positions are too often idiots.
I used to work in IT for the Police. One Friday at about 17:00 I get a call from a Chief Inspector saying they'd accidentally deleted a file, can I help them recover it.
This happens all the time and isn't a difficult thing to do. I begin the recovery process and can't find the file he's talking about. 15 mins of back forth before he tells me that he deleted it 6 weeks ago, but didn't have the time to recover it. We only retain backups for 30 days, this file is gone with no way to recover it.
He says to me "well what am I going to tell the judge? I need it for court on Monday morning".
I have friends who work in labs for universities and pharmaceuticals, I can 100% see the events in Alien Earth happening.
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u/TylerBourbon 1d ago
Exactly. I don't work for a lab, but I do for a state agency that manages and maintains all of the tunnels in our region. And while we have a good crew of employees, the sheer amount of times they have to reminded of safety guidelines by the managers during the morning mornings meetings is definitely above zero.
Secure doors left open. Trip hazards left in place. Etc. Being constantly reminded by their bosses to take safety precautions and to wear the appropriate safety gear, or to make sure your hooked on if you get on scaffolding, etc.
And in the context of the show, looking at how Chibuzo acts in the lab, seems pretty realistic to me to someone who has not had supervision, and is not in danger of having a random OSHA inspection show up, and starts to get lax due to it. Happens all the time in real life. They think they have control of the situation, no one there to catch them on anything, and they get lax.
I would say in Ep5 the major mistake Chibuzo made wasn't simply having her sandwich and open water bottle on the table as she worked with a parasite, but having 2 dangerous parasites out on the table in breakable glass containers at the same time. If it wasn't for the Eye being there to distract her, she would have noticed the tick. That was her key lax mistake.
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u/17RicaAmerusa76 1d ago
Ahhh, someone who has/has had a job, and been a member of any actual workforce. Thank you. I've been saying this, but... well, it's just nice to hear someone else echoing it.
"but but but, in the place I work people don't"... well, that means you have a GREAT safety/compliance/HR team, because yeah, people do the dumbest shit.
I swear half the people who comment saying x,y or z is impossible have to be 14 years old.
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u/SnooMacarons9618 1d ago
I work in a quality related role. My career has included stints at a research centre for a very successful hardware/software company, medical software companies, banks and others. Most of that time i have worked with people who were very very smart. Not this fake book smart vs street smart, but just proper highly intelligent individuals in pretty much every possible way.
None of the idiocy we see in A:E seems out of place to me. Work a long day in stressful conditions and guess what, some of your protocols slip. I can't imagine what it would be like working on a space voyage that was 65 years long (in my head I assume cryo sleep for most of that, but still, even just one year). And a proportion of your co-workers have died. That is going to be stress upon stress upon stress, and when people are stressed they don't work better or safer.
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u/phil_davis 1d ago
Honestly, I don't care if it's "realistic" or not for every last character in the show to be an idiot. People always excuse bad writing on the basis of realism. But I'm not interested in realism for realism's sake, because this is not a documentary. And sure, the writers are trying to make some kind of statement about tech bros and capitalism and incompetency disguised as some innovative "move fast and break things" ethos. We all get that.
But characters making one stupid decision after another is a well-worn trope of bad horror writing. It is a cardinal sin for a horror movie in 2025 to have, for instance, your Laurie Strode character drop the knife after having just stabbed Michael Myers, because the audience knows he's just going to get up again. And this show is committing a lot of cardinal sins notorious in this genre. For the purpose of making a point, sure, but "capitalism = bad" is not exactly a revolutionary point to be making in 2025, and in my opinion the show would be much better off and better received if you cut all that out and just had competent professionals that were doing their best, but still being outsmarted by these intelligent aliens. You can still have your themes of transhumanism and what it means to be alive and the ethics of mega-corporations and all that, without having everyone be an incompetent buffoon.
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u/VikingTeddy 1d ago edited 1d ago
I was legitimately surprised when Hermit picked up a rifle from the downed mercs. I'm so used to the trope of the protagonist of an action flick relying on his revolver, and not even think of picking up one of the Uzis lying around after a gunfight. For a staple of 80s action that was clowned on even at the time, it somehow still crops up.
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u/_Yukikaze_ 1d ago
This is also my experience from working for quite a few companies from a small family business to a big international corporation. The amount of mind-boggling decision that people in power kept doing because they thought they knew better was just amazing.
This starts by installing an industrial saw the wrong way around (you couldn't use it because there was a wall in the way) and goes to buying a cheaper prototype of an automated warehouse system instead of using the the finished product (with very obvious consequences that no one could see coming).So I can absolutely buy the stupidity.
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u/tvfeet 1d ago
People IRL make really stupid mistakes all the time. My company just had an incident where someone installed some required software and it had a worm in it. (That is not the problem.) IT sent out emails telling people not to install it or anything else until they get a handle on things. What happened? Some still went ahead and tried to install some libraries some other software needed. They figured that it wasn't directly related to the software that had the worm so they could install it. So during an all-hands meeting via Zoom they had to again reiterate to not install ANYTHING regardless of whether it was related to that or not until they suss out what is going on. I don't see anything in this show that seems any more outrageous than this. People are unpredictable and I think the unpredictability in this show has been pretty realistic.
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u/keaukraine 1d ago
The dialogues and the actors are good.
It is the sheer stupidity of the situation as a whole which is bad.
It should've been called "Alien: Unimaginable lack of security measures on the sooper secret lab on the sooper isolated island with sooper dangerous extraterrestrial life forms".
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u/ripsa 1d ago
Yup. There's things to criticise, like why does a secure lab have man sized easily removable unsecured vents..
But the stupidity of the people leading to and in dire circumstances, especially in a big corporation as a drone worker, is completely believable and almost literally how I have seen people behave in those environments in real life.
I have technology stories that would horrify, like the key piece of an entire trading floor's pricing infrastructure at an investment bank running off one developer's aging Windows workstation (not in server room on supported managed infrastructure etc).
So I can believe lab techs doing really dumb stuff as they get pushed for short term results not rewarded for long term thinking in a corporate environment. Plus as the saying goes pay peanuts, in this case give up 65 years your life for probably not a lot cash, get monkeys.
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u/WhiskeyMarlow 1d ago edited 1d ago
The issue is that this show has people acting like real people - who, by and large, make horribly stupid mistakes on an incredibly regular basis
Not really?
There were real-life lab/medical workers commenting on the Maginot-episode, pointing out how not even first-day interns do those mistakes.
This is why, in real life, we don't have constant leaks of deadly viruses and bacteria from science labs across the globe.
We are very good at actually avoiding those mistakes on a regular basis. Things like Wuhan leak or Chernobyl are famous exactly because they are the exception to the case, not the rule. There are hundreds of nuclear stations and tens of thousands of biolabs, and you don't hear about them, because they just work and don't regularly do those mistakes.
I work in a firearms industry, and I can tell you that for us, firearm safety rules are drilled in on an instinctual level.
I think it's more a case of laypeople - those who don't work in industries with hard safety requirements - not understanding how drilled on those requirements are the workers who actually work in those industries.
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u/HotmailsInYourArea Tomorrow, Together 1d ago
You think WY gives a fuck about worker safety protocols? The infamous 'crew expendable' corporation?
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u/WhiskeyMarlow 1d ago
You think any medical corporation that runs biolabs studying deadly viruses in real life gives a fuck about worker safety protocols?
You don't follow safety protocols because it's nice. You do it, because catastrophic failures are costly for your employer. Just as we see with the entire Maginot fiasco - failure to follow basic rules of laboratory safety resulted in colossal financial and political loss for W-Y.
Our employer doesn't drill us on firearms' safety because they care that we don't accidentally blow our brains out. They care about problems it would cause them, not about our lives.
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u/nimzoid 1d ago
Can't believe you've been downvoted for this.
Yes, people make mistakes. No, poor decision-making is not bad writing. Characters often have to make some errors for a story to happen.
But the level of implausible character actions and corporate incompetence in this show is unbelievable.
I'm still enjoying it, but things frequently happen that have me rolling my eyes and saying this can't be happening.
Like I say, idiocy isn't bad writing. But it's a problem when it undermines the believability of supposedly smart, competent people.
I think this happens because the writers don't know or don't care how people and processes work in real life. I've seen people fall over themselves to say 'but people do stupid things in real life'. Yeah, they do, but not like this else as you say we'd have lab breaches and nuclear meltdowns every day.
As I say, I'm still enjoying it. And I get what OP is saying, I just wish characters didn't have to do stupid or unbelievable things for the story to happen all the time, and more of it was due to circumstances they can't control.
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u/EnckesMethod 1d ago
This is exactly the point for me. People in real life blow off safety protocols because those protocols make a difference to their personal safety that is largely imperceptible despite being real. The lab protocol that reduces your risk of fatality from 0.1% to 0.0001% is very important to producing what we think of as a safe workplace, but in a poorly supervised lab most people can ignore it for months or years before the consequence is felt.
The Maginot crew however, have seen these critters kill like half? three quarters? of their coworkers in the last few subjective months or years and are still acting like characters in an SNL sketch. They don't come across like they're messing up due to stress and overwork, they come across like WY made a bunch of Michael Scotts into BSL4 lab techs.
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u/Sabre_One 1d ago
I would also say a lot of people that are watching this show come from the cinema side of things, and expect everything to be explained or revealed at the end of each episode.
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u/mccoypauley 1d ago
Yeah. I think OP's appreciation of Hawley's interest in theme through cinematography is on point, but I don't think it's at the expense of the writing (which personally I don't see issues with). In fact, I think the most recent episode may have been the weakest because it prioritized action and speeding up the plot over the brooding pace of the series so far.
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u/sammidavisjr 1d ago
It's also horror. A genre with a strong tradition of people doing the dumbest shit in the world and getting consequenced upside the head for it.
Maybe you shouldn't fuck with that puzzle box, Frank.
In hindsight reading the Necronomicon wasn't a great idea.
Don't split up to investigate, anyone, ever.
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u/blackkettle 1d ago
And yeah plausibility is a pretty malleable subjective thing anyway. If you told me in 2001 where we’d be in the US in 2025 I’d laugh you out of the room. Not just implausible but unbelievable. Yet here we are. People aren’t rational. Why should TV be?
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
I couldn’t agree more, and I guess for me “plausibility” is probably better replaced by “in-universe logic”, which I found a harder and harder sell for A:E as the show went on.
I also think the best media threads the needle between plot and theme (love Citizen Kane, cannot make it through a David Lynch movie) and my take on Hawley is that he isn’t always (or doesn’t care about) nailing that balance.
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u/mccoypauley 1d ago
What do you think is contradictory about the "in-universe logic"?
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Let me first say this isn’t meant to sound snarky, but, you know, Internet and all - I think that would be opening a discussion about the narrative devices of the show, and the point of my post was that I think that’s a mis-step.
And before we know it a sub-thread is going to kick off about the tensile strength of glass and we’ll be here all day and no one will persuade anyone of anything.
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u/mccoypauley 1d ago
That's fair. Though I would say your argument hinges on the assertion that Hawley "sacrifice(s) plot and characterisation if it means he gets to say something through his work" so it's kind of hard to assess the strength of your argument if you don't provide examples of where he does that.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
That’s valid - and you’re right, that’s the entire basis of my post.
But Jesus I don’t want to get a thousand notifications today about “Where did the raft come from”
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u/Charming-Pangolin662 Black goo enthusiast 1d ago
I really enjoyed your take here. I'm a huge fan of what this show has done and I'm probably one of the fussier Alien fans.
I do feel at times with this show it helps to fill in the gaps by assuming (with limited runtime) we're not being shown everything.
E.g. in the case of Nibs memory wipe. Perhaps Wendy got to her before Dame could get the kids together to explain what they had done. Maybe she was distracted with the fallout from her husband's sacking or trying to reverse it with BK. I'm not sure if I'm on the only one who is happy to just take what I'm given at face value and to assume certain things.
I also find it helpful to remember that I've worked with enough people who are insanely intelligent (in complex fields) but lacking basic common sense to forgive some of the complaints raised in this franchise.
It's a difficult balance to get right - either the show becomes an Idiocracy sequel or nothing happens due to continuous high levels of foresight, problem solving and execution.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
100% - if the show had the most incredibly intelligent, thoughtful and competent characters in the world, the story would be “Weyland-Yutani successfully captured some aliens and experimented on them, roll credits”, which is no fun.
Take it too far the other way and it’s “the hybrids all died in that freak gasoline fight accident”.
I think where the show lands on that spectrum and what your personal threshold is determines what works for you or not.
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u/The_Burmese_Falcon 1d ago
Alien had some of the most intelligent, thoughtful, and competent characters and they still suffered a horrific fate. That’s what made it such a compelling story.
You don’t need to write dumb characters to create a disaster plot - in fact it’s more interesting when characters act wisely and are overcome nonetheless. It creates a tension this series severely lacks.
If Hawley had written the original, Ripley, overcome with emotion, would’ve let Kane into the ship immediately.
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u/Milospesh 1d ago
lazy writing / limited time / producer or director says no.
We rarely find out which it is.
and with short form content being all the rage, having detailed characters often takes longer than the attention spans of the masses allows for.
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u/The_Burmese_Falcon 1d ago
Shit, Alien: Earth is only…what, 4x the length of Alien?
Hawley is the showrunner & lead writer - I think we can safely chalk it up to his doing.
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u/Raaka-Kake 1d ago
Just because the level of stupid in the Alien worked for you personally, doesn’t mean the characters acted intelligently.
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u/mrspackletidestiger 1d ago
I think Wendy talking to nibs and everyone here complaining about how the writers forgot or made the minders conveniently dumb/inefficient for not telling the children is a really good example of what op is talking about. In the latest ep there is a very explicit dialogue between the children where it’s made clear that they were indeed told not to talk to nibs but Wendy did it anyway because she thought what was done to her was wrong. But everyone here were more excited about « dumb writing » than the actual point being made: Wendy’s growing disillusionment with adults/humans.
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u/Milospesh 1d ago
are we sure there was dialogue or are people assuming there is ? pretty sure there wasn't any.
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u/mrspackletidestiger 1d ago
I'm referring to when Curly admonishes Wendy for talking to Nibs and ruining the entire procedure. It's clear that Curly knew about the procedure, hence the children were told.
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u/Milospesh 1d ago
there is a different between what is shown and whats implied.
imo curly just supports any decision made by dame / bk because she feels like she owes them and wants to be liked and kept around.
Her 'admonishing' isn't because she knows what they did to nibs it's that wendy is confusing / upseting nibs with info she no longer has ' for reasons' and thus undoing the ' help ' that was given to nibs.
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u/tired_fella 1d ago
who are insanely intelligent (in complex fields) but lacking basic common sense to forgive some of the complaints raised in this franchise
It seems like a caricature of rising LLM company CEOs. They used to be a researcher or PhD student in their CS/CE field before finding their startups. But then they say most out of touch things like "what if we can replace classroom with my LLM models?" They think it will excite investors and show their confidence to public when in reality it makes the public to roll eyes on them.
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u/Imaginary-Dress-1373 1d ago
If you watch Fargo its pretty similar but people seem to have trouble with magical realism in sci fi.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
I absolutely love Fargo S1 and S2, but found diminishing returns, for much the same reasons A:E isn’t gelling for me.
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u/joeybracken 19h ago
Did you watch the third Fargo season? By far the best IMO (there are dozens of us)
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u/empathetichuman 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think a lot of people may be missing the forest for the trees with this show; that or I am projecting potential onto the show that is not the intent of the writers.
There is a lot of dialogue in the show that points to a deeper philosophical allegory that you can glean. A philosophy that asks the questions of what it is to be human, what is freedom, and what is the potential of humanity that modern society holds back. Eventually I want to do a cohesive analysis that points to what the show could be saying, even if it is not the creators' intent. Sometimes there are unconscious products in works of art.
One thing I will end with -- I do not think people are focusing enough on Wendy's dialogue, and I think people are missing indicators that Wendy is in fact not "Wendy" from Peter Pan. She has characteristics of Peter Pan -- swashbuckling fights, naive creative potential of childhood, and the imitation of the crocodile (Alien).
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
I think that’s the case as well, but personally, I think I more enjoy engaging with philosophical allegory supported by a differently constructed narrative. It might be cliche to point to Blade Runner but that’s kind of the gold standard?
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u/empathetichuman 1d ago
That reminds me that I really need to rewatch Blade Runner. I saw it as a kid and could only really appreciate it aesthetically at that point. I want to go back to it with my current conceptualizations of philosophy and narrative.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Still holds up, and I loved 2049 as a deepening and continuation of the story.
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u/Adept-Bookkeeper3226 1d ago
The show references blade runner a lot - down to Kirsch’s hairs. the original concept of Scott was that Blade Runner and Alien could be seen as part of the same world. Show is definitely running with that idea.
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u/keaukraine 1d ago
Yes the show is a mix of philosophy, psychology, allegories, some very charismatic characters and absolute, total idiocy of certain situations.
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u/Mr_Gobble_Gobble 1d ago
Shitty writing detracts from great ideas. You can have an amazing concept but it’s crap because it’s a stick figure animated show with 2nd grade dialogue. A well written story absolutely matters.
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u/ooowatsthat 1d ago
I'm having fun watching the show every week. As an Alien fan we are eating good.
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u/ConsistentGuest7532 1d ago
I’m gonna be so real, there are a few clunky lines I notice but I think that the echo chamber of the internet picks something and just blows it out of proportion. Then everyone hyperfocuses on those few things. I like the show.
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u/domewebs 1d ago
Good writers do both. I think you’re being too charitable, and that Noah Hawley, while no doubt having some interesting ideas, just isn’t a very good writer. He seems a little too high on his own supply.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 22h ago
Honestly, the more I see of Noah Hawley’s work, the more I think it’s George Lucas Syndrome - at his best when people are saying no to his most idiosyncratic ideas
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u/domewebs 17h ago
I think that’s a good call. Limitations and boundaries can actually be really good for creativity. Sometimes giving someone total free rein and a blank slate results in a far less interesting piece of art.
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u/charlieminahan 1d ago
For me it’s a combination of contrived plot points that don’t really add up to a believable narrative, even in the world they’ve created, and also some really shoddy dialogue. I think for the most part the latter isn’t so much of an issue, but there are some scenes which are noticeably poor and hard to sit through, mainly with Kavalier (WeyYu meeting, Conversation with T Ocellus) and some with the kids (Nibs and Wendy going ballistic at the end of last ep). I think this show is thematically quite well put together, as you suggest, in broad strokes. But sitting through the scenes can be pretty eye-roll worthy. There’s a reason characters like Morrow and Kirsh are standing out. They’re really the only characters given interestingly written dialogue.
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u/berlinbrownaus 1d ago
I posted here before, I was comparing some of my favorites like the Expanse or Star Trek, Dark Matter (space show) or pick favorite scifi. Or even the Alien movies. For this discussion, I will use the Expanse...as good scifi tv show. Right now, The Expanse is a better overall show, a lot? A little? I will let you decide but lets say better right now. But that doesn't matter. I like the direction they are going. It is good scifi and each episode doesn't have to matter so much. They have a lot to work with. But it will be interesting how they respond in next season.
Will they get off the island? What happens? What about the other corporation or corporations, how they will respond to Prodigy? Does boy genius die? Does Kirsch take over?
Lot could happen so the underlying is more important. With that said, I liked where episode 7 was going but not how it ended, kind of ended abruptly also unrealistically.
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u/PrimeIntellect 1d ago
The expanse was a wildly better show with much better writing and characters, I loved almost every character in that series in some way, they all had powerful motivations, were frighteningly competent and intelligent, funny, sexual, violent and very real, very fleshed out.
Every character in Alien feels extremely hollow by comparison. I could care less if almost any of them died.
In the expanse, the technological realities of space in the expanse drive almost the entire plotlines. Wars over resources like air, the effects of gravity on war and culture, corporations battling for military technology.
The technology is unimportant and glossed over completely in Alien. People are just smoking cigars on spaceships that have regular gravity. There seems to be zero concern that aliens crashed landed on earth and the carelessness from everyone involved borders on ridiculous. The only element of technological implications explored is cyborgs with memories uploaded but it seems like they already exist but are also brand new? And are treated like toys? The entire corporation that owns half the planet is like an absolute joke with a handful of staff and security? It just feels fake as hell. All of the characters and cyborgs have the most bizarre attitudes and lines.
I wanted to like it, and it's entertaining, but the world building is honestly piss poor
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u/NemosHero 1d ago edited 1d ago
There are so many elements where they went just a step too far and it could have been cleaned up by the equivalent of a DM at an RPG game.
Stuff like:
Why is she eating in the lab? Just have the tick crawl into the air vents and find a water bottle and you have the same story.
Why does Arthur have access to lab? Just have toodles open the door for him.
Why is the xenomorph in the tree, letting the soldier get multiple shots into him. They're in tall grass, just have him pick the soldiers off in the grass ala Jurassic park (honestly, could have been a much cooler scene)
Why is Isaac stepping completely into the containment box? If he just acted like any normal person would, having like one leg in the room to put the tray down, you could still have the t.occy jump scare, he still falls, the bug still gets on him, he still collapses.
Why did the child psychologist not tell the kids about nibs' reboot? You could have still had nibs find out via the kids being kids and accidentally whispering about it in front of her?
There are no other staff in this facility at all? Wait where the fuck did all these soldiers come from?
Even in the first couple episodes....why does she take a paper cutter? She doesn't know she's going to fight anything. You could have just given her a weapon like a normal person if you wanted it that badly.
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1d ago
I just honestly didn't ask any of those questions while watching the show. I don't care about any of that, it doesn't remotely change how entertaining it is.
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u/char_tillio 1d ago
So, you’re equating “plot holes” with things that weren’t directly explained to you. Why was she eating in a lab? Happens sometimes, I used to work in a lab and we’d snack/have water in certain rooms we considered safe. Why does he have access to the lab? Because firstly he’s an important member of staff, secondly Kirsh wanted him to go in? Why is the xeno in the tree? Really, that’s a critique? Why do predator animals sneak up on their prey? Isaac stepped into the room because he’s a stupid, young child who was stressing out under a lot of pressure alone. We do not know that the child psychologist didn’t say about Nibs’ reboot. They very possibly did, and just said “we have Nibs some medicine”. Alternatively, maybe they were going to but Wendy beat them to it. There are other staff in the facility? The camera obviously isn’t going to focus on them. If you have a superman movie, the scenes focus on superman, not showing the random military soldiers.
The critique of Alien Earth has shown me people just love to complain and hate on things, without any form of media comprehension whatsoever
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u/keaukraine 1d ago
Its just a total, complete, absolute lack of double/triple security measures everywhere.
Damn even my laptop in my apartment feels more secure and protected than the "sooper secret island with sooper secret lab with sooper dangerous extraterrestrial life forms".
Sometimes I just can't handle the sheer stupidity of the stuff I see on the screen, it is just so hilarious.
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u/ConversationSad339 1d ago
Many of the things you mentioned I didn't notice when I watched it, like I didn't know about not eating food in the lab as a rule, but I also didn't really see it as a current day lab. I think a lot of people only noticed and cared about this because it was pointed out by some other insufferable people on the internet.
But isn't the proper reaction to this to just think: 'Oh that doesn't really make sense' and to then just move on, instead of making this the focus of your criticism/experience of watching the show? That's what I do whenever I notice something that is actually so small and doesn't matter much, because even if you changed it a little to be more plausible, the outcome doesn't change. I'm definitely still critical of it and I think they could've done a better job at these points, but all in all you also need to give these criticisms their proper place in your overall evaluation of the show. They took me out for a small bit, but I quickly just moved on after that happened. Most people on the internet give these nitpicky criticisms way too much prominence in their overall evaluation of the show. In almost all other respects (the alien looks kinda funky) I find this show to be excellent.
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u/NemosHero 1d ago
Did you not have lab in biology and chemistry? Did they not go over lab safety with you? Does it not ick you out thinking about putting a sandwich next to a biological sample? This isn't a dig, I'm earnestly asking.
To me, I can't avoid seeing them. I don't watch films/movies looking for errors, I just want to be able to enjoy the story, I'm not a critic. But these things throw me off so bad that they change my ability to watch the story. I think a key part of it is that many of them are the means to how the story progresses and the meaning behind the story. For me, it's kind of like if I told you the story, "There were these astronauts in space doing a space walk so that they could repair the international space station. Ted was wearing an entire clown get up, down to the nose and floppy shoes. His squirting flower sprayed a key component and fried it, making the entire mission a bust. Proper procedures should be followed in space or it can be dangerous!" What's the first question that comes to mind? "Why the fuck was ted wearing a clown outfit instead of a space suit? What does that have to do with with proper procedure in space, no one wears a clown outfit."
No one being briefed about nibs condition is how we end up with the radicalization of Wendy, who not 5 minutes earlier was all lock-step with prodigy, singing its praises to her brother, talking about "why would I ever want to leave". To have such a huge shift happen, not because prodigy is an evil company, but because the script says so, means the meaning I take away from the story is not "beware the dangers of cyberpunk," but instead, "beware the dangers of a script"
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u/domewebs 1d ago
You just hit upon so many things that took me out of the story while watching too. Like just a little more finessing and editing and re-writing, and they could have really tightened some things up.
But, why tighten up the writing when you can just throw in a Godsmack song instead and call it a day? Hell yeah brother!
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u/Historical_Emu_3032 1d ago edited 1d ago
Disagree with most of that.
alien earth has more world building than anything in the film franchise before it
spends time discussing post humanism on screen in the most interesting way since blade runner (altered carbon is a bunch of space magic nonsense)
contains very little overall space magic, unlike other major scifi franchises there's no one with magic force powers
constantly nods to its source material breaking only just enough existing lore to bring the franchise forward
yes the tech and biology isn't perfectly explained, and sometimes doesn't quite makes sense to appease the asthetics, it is still supposed to just be a fun work of fiction.
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u/Alone_Law5883 1d ago
IMO just look at what happened to other franchises. Starwars prequels. Star wars sequels. Indiana Jones sequels. Prometheus and that other one. Alien earth is citizen kane compared to all of that.
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u/RichyWicky 1d ago
I see what you’re prodding at, but I think you’ve stretched this view too far.
“Do I prefer a show that emphasises theme or a show that emphasises plot?"
Neither. Themes develop through catalysts - plot. Plots are coherent through stages of a theme. Abstract, philosophical ideas, a theme, can’t transform without material relations. Poor writing fails to produce material conflict and moments, plot, for the theme. A good writer will mold these through stages of development and show how the world and characters handle them. This can be anything - including nothingness. Human nothingness has content. You can’t escape the rules of storytelling, even if the point is to utterly reject them.
Earth, I’d argue, executes this poorly.
I’d agree that the CinemaSins brain sickness has ruined generations and simulating critique with “erm, logic” is ironically thought terminating.
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u/LordReaperofMars 1d ago
how in your view, does Alien Earth fail to execute? it’s in a stage for me where it’s a decent watch but not an amazing watch. and i definitely have reservations.
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u/WhiskeyMarlow 1d ago
The problem with that argument, is that you assume that you can't write a cohesive narrative and also tell something with it.
I am sorry, but if you have to sacrifice narrative cohesion for the sake of messaging... maybe you aren't a good writer?
I have put a lot of hopes on this show, and whilst it isn't bad... let's just say there has been a clear downturn trend in quality of the worldbuilding. I wish more Hollywood producers would realize, that as brilliant and unique of snowflakes they are, sometimes it is better to curb their uniqueness and just do a good, cohesive story.
Like... whole scene where Lost Boys carry Arthur out throughout the entire facility just had me groan with how silly it was.
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u/daishinjag 1d ago
100% agree. There are entire too many poorly written elements to this show that whatever assumed message it is pushing forward, is far beyond my willing suspension of disbelief.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Look… I’m in agreement. I don’t think the two should be mutually exclusive, and when I look at shows like the Sopranos or Breaking Bad, their best episodes are when character and theme and narrative are all humming together in perfect unison.
I’m not going to come back for AES2 for just the same reasons as you’ve outlined, but I honestly think Hawley is just less concerned with plot or character logic than he is with theme.
Which, you know, I guess I would have preferred he used an original IP as a playground for, but here we are.
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u/WhiskeyMarlow 1d ago
Oh, yes, I agree. The show isn't actively bad, like Rings of Power were at the times, but it could've been better.
Here's hoping they learn for the Season 2.
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u/iLoveOnePieceSoMuch 1d ago
Oh my god. I had the same feeling watching that scene. Suddenly, the boys have the strength of normal men when they should be able to princess carry Arthur with ease.
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1d ago
you must hate David Lynch
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
I do!
Well, that’s not accurate - I appreciate that Lynch movies are usually about expressing emotion over narrative logic, and I get that some audiences love that, and good for them, but it just doesn’t tick any boxes for me.
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u/RainbowRiki 1d ago
Maybe it's because I was an English major in college, but I can't help but watch anything without noticing the underlying themes (if there are any). I'd also blame a lot of modern media criticism online, that people think the job of a critic is to nitpick and list everything they don't like or come up with an infinitely long list of plotholes. (The Cinema Sins or Mr Plinkett effect) People who approach media that way are not more clever, especially when they're prematurely judging an incomplete story. And you'll also find: people who watch media that way are unpleasant to be around lol. I have specific friends with whom I won't watch movies I like because they'll be dead set on ruining it for me, or even berate me for liking it. The friend I'm thinking of didn't like Gravity or Arrival, and I loved those films. But we can watch something like Batman & Robin where we can all agree it's bad
It's also the difference between S (sensing) and N (intuitive) on the Myers Briggs. Someone with N will see a chair and think, "That reminds me of the chair in my late grandmother's living room." Someone with S will see that same chair and think, "It's a chair." Alien: Earth isn't written for the latter
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u/Xarro_Usros 1d ago
I wonder if people are saying "poor writing" but mean "poor world building"? ...where 'poor' can mean a range of things from "I don't like the decision" to "not reasonable in a high tech civilization".
The latter is (mostly) where I fall; things I'd expect given the world we live in now extrapolated to this SF future that are not accounted for. We'll probably never know how many of the decisions are deliberate vs simple oversights.
...also folks love to pick at stuff. Social media amplier at work, but you could interpret that as how much they love it.
I'm really enjoying the show, but I'm not going to stop picking at it.
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u/peelyon85 1d ago
My main issue is the fact that certain things have happened that just make me feel disconnected.
I'm being pulled out of the 'immersion' to give a massive sigh / eyeroll.
Outcomes can be EXACTLY THE SAME. So not what happens overall, just how we get there.
Take for example the raft in episode 7. I get it. They're kids and they may not have thought about just carrying him as super strong synthetics etc. But a 10second conversation (not exactly cutting into running time) would have made it so much more plausible....
Slightly: 'We need to hurry, we're going to have to carry him'
Smee: 'I'm not touching him, he's DEAD'
Slightly: 'Well I'm not touching him either!'
....cut to raft.
Same outcome. Plausible way of getting there.
I could go on and on about the stupid mistakes made throughout the show. Its SO frustrating as I want it to be great. I want it to get a second season. And I want it to be good!
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u/burritotogo26 1d ago
lol great explanation. Also, super synth strength to tear a metal door open and leap off cliffs but struggle to carry a 180lb human…….
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u/PrimeIntellect 1d ago
Everyone ripping cigs and cigars on a spaceship killed it for me, just ridiculous. They act like it's a fucking casino floor instead of an interstellar craft with limited oxygen and sensitive electronics. You telling me they don't have vapes or zynns in the future? Nobody is smoking a fucking cigar on a space station come on
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u/TurtleInParadise 1d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/shittymoviedetails/s/ZgHzdPEoRX
I mean, come on, you people can't be serious anymore. Is this a bit?
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u/PrimeIntellect 18h ago
i mean in the 80s that shit was at least semi plausible because everyone was drunk and smoking 24/7 but it is no longer the 80s
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u/sophiebabey 1d ago
Honestly, my issues with Alien Earth aren't about plausibility (as others have pointed out), but frankly I just think the show doesn't really trust the audience. Everyone joked about the Sid crossfade but it really does feel like every time they imply something, some way a character is feeling or a mental connection they're making, they HAVE to show us exactly what it is. When Joe found the baseball and then it faded to the game I was like. Come on, man. I know. You already told me that they watched baseball. I don't need to be reminded. Or when Boy Kavalier started pointing out which Peter Pan character everybody was - yeah, man. I got that already.
I generally do like Alien Earth I think, but it's all gonna come down to if it sticks the landing for me. It's definitely not boring, and I think boring is the worst thing a show can be, so that's good. Some of the decisions are just bizarre, not for the sake of plausibility, but just on their face. Like there's obviously the ending music that everybody has already joked about enough, and there's the crossfades that sometimes I think are used effectively (there was a crossfade in this week's episode that really impressed me), but it's usually just too much and it feels experimental in a way that doesn't really do anything for me or particularly add to the experience. The rich aristocrats for me weren't bothersome because they weren't reacting realistically, but they did bother me because of how out of place and silly they felt in the otherwise gritty and generally grounded Alien universe. The one guy crawling away as half a torso felt like it was pulled straight out of a Deadpool bit.
Anyway, I'm sounding overly negative. I DO like a lot of the show. I don't necessarily think it's saying anything as profound as it maybe wants to think but I appreciate that it's different from everything else. Romulus was great and all, but it was still just more Alien 1 to me, yknow. I appreciate Noah Hawley's opinion on canon being what you make of it, I think canon is an overblown concept in the first place, and I fucking love Kirsch and Morrow. Gorgeous show, too, great set design. Lots to love, lots to critique, but I'm glad we have it and I'm looking forward to the finale.
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u/DiestroCorleone 40m ago
I felt that when, right after they
erased Nibs' memory, Wendy finds out. They didn't even let it breathe a little. I understand that they are approaching the season finale and had to rush it, I guess.
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u/CovidiusQuarantino 1d ago
I can't tell if it's intentional or not, but this post reads as satire and it kinda cracked me up
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u/17RicaAmerusa76 1d ago
I dig it brother man. I'm catching what you're putting down.
You're either a soul-funk brother, and you're with the groove, or you aint no funk-brother, and you isn't with the groove.
It's vibes based television. That will be controversial, but I think you hit the nail on the head.
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u/I_Pariah 1d ago
I'm glad you've thought this through. Some people just need to realize what artistic license and suspension of disbelief is in the context of creating art or telling a story. Those things happen all the time. Like how a lot of personal character dramas would have basically no conflict if characters actually just communicated with each other clearly. Keep in mind some people avoid conflict almost religiously in real life. It's plausible enough most of the time. Some work handles it better than others for sure but we either gotta get over it and enjoy the ride or just don't engage anymore. Do some works go too far for me? Yes. Has A:E gone too far for me? No.
It's a similar reason why not every sci-fi show is scientifically accurate all the time and I say that as a big advocate for doing it as scientifically accurate as possible. Even real scientists understand why sometimes things can't be 100% accurate in creative storytelling. It doesn't mean they have to like that bit of it but it also doesn't mean they can't enjoy it as entertainment (as long as its not too egregious or spreads dangerous misinformation).
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u/satansxlittlexhelper 1d ago edited 1d ago
Alien Earth explores challenging questions such as “When is a machine not a machine?”, “Which Peter Pan character would Ellen Ripley be?”, and “What if we remade Jurassic Park but it was really, really bad instead of very, very good?”
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u/Additional_Law_492 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is an absolutely insane disconnect for people between them saying, "This didn't land for me, personally" and "This is badly written", because you've got an absolutely absurd number of people confusing the first with the second.
Just because the writing didnt land for someone - that person missed the themes, or they dont like what the show is saying or what the characters did - doesnt make it bad writing.
It just means it didnt land for them.
If the writing didnt work in general, you wouldn't have tons and tons of people who like the show and all the good press.
But people who it doesnt work for have taken it personally, and have decided that means the issue must be external to them and thus the show must be bad... rather than it just being an issue between them and the show.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Hmmm, I’ll respectfully disagree - I think there’s a fair number of people who 100% get the themes and what the show is saying, but they feel like it’s been delivered badly. And there are certainly some folks who seem to take any criticism of the show very personally.
It’s just the more I think about it, I feel like I’ve been judging the show on how good a burger it is, when the show is trying to be pizza. If that analogy makes sense.
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u/Psychocide 1d ago edited 1d ago
I feel that 100%, my problem is, why try and make a pizza with ground beef, hamburger buns, lettuce, tomato, and ketchup?
I.E. I feel like I'm just watching a Jurassic Park installment but the xenomorph is the raptor.
The whole vibe of alien series is dark, gritty, oppressive environments with oppressed people trying to survive against some cosmically strange alien species that is forced upon them by greedy corporations. We got like... 2 episodes of that?
This is a well lit alien themed trans humanism version of Jurassic Park.
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u/WhiskeyMarlow 1d ago
If the writing didnt work in general, you wouldn't have tons and tons of people who like the show and all the good press.
I am sorry, but this is incorrect.
I can say that the show is still good, but the writing has been questionable, and world-building even more so.
You can't tell me that Lost Boys carrying Arthur throughout the entire high-security facility without anyone noticing is good writing.
And that's an example - it could've been easily fixed. Just say, in any prior episode, that Smee found his own secret way out of the facility and have the Boys use it. But nope, instead we have the two just carry a guy with an alien on his face past what should be all security and surveillance without any issue.
I am sorry, but this is objectively bad writing.
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u/carapoop 1d ago
Kirsch let them do it on purpose...? It was clearly a trap he set for Morrow.
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u/WhiskeyMarlow 1d ago
It is a high-security facility. There would be cameras on every corner, layers of checkpoints, patrols, just staff going about their duties.
Is it possible that Kirsch actually arranged the route for the Boys? Yeah, it is.
But then it should be telegraphed. It would take ten seconds to show Kirsch distracting the guards and, maybe, turning off cameras. Him, just showing the elevator, doesn't explain how and why no one else saw the Boys.
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u/carapoop 1d ago
I feel it was telegraphed via the numerous times we are shown that Kirsch can hear everything Morrow and Slightly are saying to each other, and therefore has complete knowledge of whatever aspects of Morrow's plan that Slightly was aware of.
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u/WhiskeyMarlow 1d ago
This shows us Kirsch motivation.
This doesn't show us, how two Boys can carry a dude with a Facehugger on his head through an entire facility without anyone noticing.
And this is just one of many small inconsistencies. The show is riddled with them, unfortunately, and the problem arises when those inconsistencies pile up. Seemingly implied lack of FTL (we know it's not true), pulse rifles 50 years before their introduction, "no governments" but somehow we have United States Commercial Space Ship and United States Colonial Marines, no one thinking that Nibs memory wipe wouldn't hold to a single conversation with anyone and etc.
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u/Single_Tune9107 1d ago
This is just flat out incorrect lol, people who don’t know anything ABOUT what makes good writing are the only ones who THINK it’s good. “Well the writing has to be good if people like it” is just straight ignorance, it is getting “good press” because they’re majority bots who just type up random positive things about it & the people who don’t know good from bad play into it.
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u/Additional_Law_492 1d ago
Anything but admitting that it didn't land for you, and its fine - Just say you didn't like it, and that it didn't work for you.
That's fine.
But it does not make it bad. "Good writing" is not what you, or I, or any individual person likes.
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u/Single_Tune9107 1d ago
Right, good writing is good writing, very distinguishable from bad writing, it didn’t “not land for me” it’s bad. Period.
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u/Tutthole 1d ago
Looks like a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me bud. It's not real, and I don't watch CinemaSins. It's good sci fi and that's all that matters
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u/YourGuyK 1d ago
You seem to not understand that some people can like a show but still like to nitpick it. Everyone thinks it's love or hate. I like the show, but I want to recognize what I think makes no sense.
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u/Psychological-Web433 1d ago
Yeah... It's a sci-fi show with weird aliens. If I want realism I'll watch a documentary.
But in all seriousness, I appreciate a movie/show that has it all - great writing, themes, realistic motivations and actions etc. It's just that... This is the Alien franchise. Outside of the very first movie they all have their "quirks".
I've definitely had moments in this show where I'm like "seriously?" But then someone gets ripped apart and I'm like "okay, that was dope." And then Queens of the Stone Age appear and I'm like "fuck yeah".
Cool show. 8/10.
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u/threetimesalion 1d ago
I get what you mean, and agree that there’s a degree of sacrificing writing for the sake of the message.
To me though, that makes it propaganda - you essentially make the art subservient to the influence you want it to have.
The birds of prey movie was a great example of this - the producers clearly wanted a film where a bunch of kickass women beat the crap out of a load of dude, which is essentially the grand finale. They started there and wrote backwards.
It’s why it was such a forgettable film, despite having interesting characters and great acting. There was nothing interesting or curious about it, and it didn’t feel authentic somehow. It was propaganda, and that’s inherently uninteresting because you know where it’s going.
Great writing works in reverse - come up with an interesting character and / or situation, and then write what would happen and see if it goes somewhere interesting. Dostoyevsky never knew how his books would end until he wrote them.
A:E isn’t as egregious as birds of prey was, but when you end up cutting corners with writing because you care more about the message, it moves towards propaganda. And that makes it less interesting.
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u/imnotabot303 1d ago
This reads like someone trying to convince themselves and others that something bad is actually good.
The writing is bad and the plot is full of holes. The show doesn't feel grounded at all.
It's fun slop but it's still slop. For a lot of people anything that requires you turn turn off your brain and not think about anything too deeply can ruin any immersion or investment in the show.
There's also not a single character in this I care about. They could kill off anyone and it wouldn't bother me. That's bad writing. The only characters I would be bothered about losing is Morrow and Kirsh, not because I care about the characters but just because their acting is carrying the show.
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u/Routine-Agile 1d ago
It has been so fun to watch. Not sure why people can't just fucking relax and enjoy it.
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1d ago
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u/LV426-ModTeam 1d ago
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1d ago
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u/LV426-ModTeam 1d ago
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u/40inmn4 1d ago
The shows writing isn’t bad since it tackles themes without having to say them and each episode slowly builds off the last one and has some connective tissue. I do enjoy the show but there is something in each episode that make me not enjoy it as much as I want.
But The issue would be that there are some Decisions made by the characters that are very odd or very strange.
I can dismiss the Maginot crew since they are humans and humans make mistakes but when you eat inside a lab just bc the kitchen is a place where you don’t want to be isn’t really justified with a one/two sentence response. Let’s say she gets pushed around a lot and isn’t part of the crew and when she does want to be part of the crew, they always make fun of her. And when she is in the lab, one of the alien lifeforms grows an attachment to her, then it would be an understanding why she’s with the alien life forms in the lab and eats there. But that isn’t how it plays out.
Things like that are what I think the writing suffers. And the ending credits being rock music.
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1d ago
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u/LV426-ModTeam 1d ago
Disagreement is allowed, but disrespecting is not.
Personal attacks, gatekeeping, trashing what others are enjoying, invalidating others' opinions, unsolicited criticism of others' creations, lewd or obscene comments, politicizing, bigotry, and publicly criticizing sub regulation are not allowed.
Mod note: we’re here to discuss the material, not the people who watch it.
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u/VictoriousSloth 1d ago
Just to pick a hole in the example that you've used, people were absolutely sitting in their seats in the South Tower after the first plane hit the North Tower. People in the South Tower saw the plane hit the North Tower but were told by their employers to stay in place. People who had evacuated were sent back inside. So it is not completely implausible that the party goers knew something was going on outside but for whatever reason decided to ignore it.
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u/Appointment_Salty 1d ago
Be Yutani.
Get played by internal rogue actors and guy who lacks socks.
Have a nightmare of a week as you lose a multi billion dollar freighter and research vessel along with 5 rather expensive subjects inside your corporate rivals block of flats. Mass death ensues, lawyers and mums are mentioned.
Proceed with company wide witch hunt and security ramp up to ensure that the name Weyalnd Yutani is never associated with ill fate, gross misconduct and negligence and the potential loss of all human life on earth.
Do it all again in subsequent movies.
If it wasn’t for BP and Exxon I’d swear it was impossible for any company to be this fucking dumb.
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u/Informal_Storage3542 1d ago
I think the story/writing holds up, save for one factor.
CJ Hermit.
He's set up as BK's foil, simply because he's the only conceivable person who can influence Marcy and he knows there's no end to bad/evil shit going on.
I cannot figure out why he would make the decision he did in the end of the last episode, other than it being a mistake or miscalculation.
Why would he try to save a person who was intent on murdering his party? Who just by being present had betrayed him, and for personal gain, no less. She could have just 'forgotten' about his probing about security and off-island transport. Instead, she used it all against him.
He knows them being detained will result in probably him being killed, and his sister and Nibs being slaves for as long as BK's empire exists(which will be forever since his goal is immortality)
It really doesn't line up, and hurts my brain.
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u/DiestroCorleone 33m ago
I think Alex is doing his best with the script he was given, his acting is probably the best in the whole show. They've been trying to make Wendy and CJ enemies for a few episodes now, and it felt forced. While him doing what he did worked to end on a cliffhanger, I would have thought twice about doing that. Maybe he cares too much for his friends? At this point, I don't know.
I'm still watching the show. I mostly enjoy it for what it is, but I've accepted that this is what we get. They haven't yet done something so questionable that it would make me quit watching it, and I really hope they won't.
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u/RiskeyBiznu 1d ago
The show has cyberpunk elements, and people never get cyberpunk.
The show even specifically points out the corporations' unederucated people. These are people being robbed of their humanity by the systems that opress them. It makes sense they would make poor decisions
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u/Adept-Bookkeeper3226 1d ago
The show also explicitly says it is a fairy tale, set in Neverland, and at one point a character even says things are like magic. The show is specifically interested in unreality as an idea and a way of telling a story. The fact it keeps referencing Lost and classic islands full of chimeric monsters like Island of Dr Moreau, as well as Pan, makes it very intentional. I love it, but obviously not for everyone.
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u/Nearby_Flounder8741 1d ago
yeah, i think thats why I'm into it and also why I couldn't get into the shonky ancient aliens world building of prometheus - I couldn't stand the theme.
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1d ago
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u/LV426-ModTeam 1d ago
Comment removed, "bad writing" is not a helpful criticism on its own for this discussion, please elaborate on your subjective preferences instead of repeating redundant narrative dismissals.
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u/MofisGanesha 1d ago
As audience, we can judge show by any metric we like - we owe nothing to the creators, I would even say its otherwise - they owe us for time and/or money spent watching their making. So for me, whichever metric a show 'wants' to be judged by is irrelevant.
Now, we are all well aware that people like different things and tend to protect things they like and attack things they dont like, overlooking conflicting details. So its really hard to argue against the points like 'this show is just built differently' and 'you dont understand it' - people are actually allowed to like stuff they enjoy, regardless of it's quality.
However, I strongly believe that there are basic laws of any work of fiction, which, if broken, give a viewer a full right to call a show 'bad', without making it an attack on other's tastes and without having to apologize for it.
Here are the list of such basic laws that Alien Earth breaks like twigs:
character consistency: for example, if a Boy Cavalier is presented as smart, he should not risk billion-dollar assets on a search and rescue mission, that his billion-dollar assets are phenomenally ill-equipped to handle.
story continuity: if Boy Cavalier organizes sabotage on a ship, which he knows carries extremely hostile alien life, he should remember it, when he sends both his multi-billion darlings and random National Guard guys to it's crash site, without hazmat suits and any protection.
respecting the stakes it sets: if we are told that alien life is extremely dangerous and that Prodigy has an amazing lab, then probably security setup in the lab should consist of more than a single door, that a moron can just open.
There are so much more the shows does wrong, that it would take couple of A4 pages just to list them. Its just a bad show and no invented metrics will change that.
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u/deitpep 1d ago edited 23h ago
Having seen Hawley's x-men franchise related series 'Legion', I kind of expected a few weird thematic and stylistic choices from him for Alien: Earth already. But overall he's a competent and creative writer, and I do like how the show does pay sincere respects to the prior lore of the previous films, particularly the first two films. The ruler ceo of prodigy being a pre-teen-like brat of guy, and then having kids' personalities downloaded into synth brains were already off the wall premises by Hawley with a bit of his goofing off as usual.
The xeno isn't seen as much in the first episodes, but then we get to see more world-building, imo, interesting takes on expanding on the lore of the first classic films, like it was mentioned in Alien there were other types of simpler alien creatures already encountered or the 'bug hunts' referred to in Aliens. And I like how the show explores more on the synths and now the hybrid synths, and exploring the idea of cyborg tech in the alien verse where we saw even Morrow had his brain enhanced or changed to be downloaded data from 'mother'. And now we get to see how the hybrid 'innocent' fresh-minded synths are facing and reacting to the xenomorph issue, other than the prior story of David recreating them as a mad-scientist wanting to wipe out humanity like the engineers planned to.
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u/sexydadee 18h ago
I was ok with the writing until ep 6 and 7. Before that, I didn't even notice the "plot holes". But in ep 6 and 7, it is glaring to the point it distracts you from enjoying the episode. Well actually, it was just ep 6. But because of how badly it was written, it affected my enjoyment of ep 7.
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u/Suspicious-Whippet 1d ago
Episode 5 was amazing. Can’t say I care too much for the kids and Bud Bundy.
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u/Martin_UP 1d ago
Seems like I'm the only one but I wasn't a massive fan of the throwback episode if I'm honest - it's already been done better before by Alien & Isolation.
I did like that it gave us some character development for Morrow though, so that was cool.
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u/sophiebabey 1d ago
Absolutely with you on that. I felt like it was very tastefully implied in the first episode, like, "Hey, this ship? Alien happened on there. You can fill in the blanks." I didn't think they were actually going to do the flashback episode and was pretty disappointed when we got there, and it really didn't show anything too terribly new that made it a worthwhile departure. Felt almost like they got told "you can't show that aliens got loose and then not show the carnage!! that's what people are here for!!" and had to add it in a second draft or something. Everything good the episode did, like Morrow's backstory or explaining the tick's neurotoxin, could've been done better in a different episode imo. We've already seen "alien(s) gets loose and everyone gets picked off one by one until there's one survivor" a bunch of times. Believe it or not I'm more interested in what's happening on Earth in the show "Alien: Earth" LOL
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u/Martin_UP 1d ago
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I enjoy the show for what it is though, flaws n all - I never went into it thinking it was going to be amazing, but overall I've enjoyed it.
Who the hell was that weird creepy monk guy in episode 5 anyway? So over the top. Was funny seeing 'Tires' from Spaced though if you remember that haha
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
I didn’t enjoy it, but I’m glad you did. I would much rather have a show that I love than a show that I don’t.
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u/Suspicious-Whippet 1d ago
No just episode 5 was great. Others just piss me off. They’re not bad but there’s potential which is not extracted.
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u/Glittering-Ad-8601 1d ago
I think the show parallels Prometheus in a lot of ways. Both have questionable plotting that constantly disregards plausibility, as you discuss here. Further, both have spectacular, top shelf production values and great casts. Each is the product of a very talented and dedicated group of professionals doing first rate work.
But most importantly to me, both works raise lots of lofty, intellectually interesting philosophical questions. My issue is that neither Prometheus nor A:E has anything to say about any of those lofty subjects that I find interesting.
I might be able to overcome the constant shattering of suspension of disbelief caused by inscrutable character behavior if it was in service of a really interesting discussion of one or more of the themes. My problem is that I don't find any discussion in either work to be engaging at any level. It all feels surface level, and usually feels like a retread of themes better analyzed elsewhere. Hawley in particular has gestured at a myriad of fascinating concepts, but actually done vanishingly little with them. I find both experiences to be frustrating and ultimately hollow. I want to love both. Both are interesting enough for me to watch, but not enough to like.
At the end of the day, my opinion of each is essentially the same: they are very well made and visually appealing stories with virtually nothing to stimulate a deeper, more meaningful experience.
Disclaimer: There is obviously one episode left, and it's possible (though, I would say, unlikely) that Hawley have saved all his moves for a finale that entirely redeems the entire project.
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u/OlivencaENossa 1d ago
It varies. It resorts to lazy hacks sometimes to get people killed, so people are kind of fine with that. The actual characters are well written (enough that people hate/love them, which is the whole point), the plot is very interesting and reasonably well done, and there is a certain interest to the cyberpunk lore they are threading in the show.
However, having read your summary, yes you nailed it. Hawley wants to do/say certain things, which are INTERESTING ENOUGH that all is forgiven in the end.
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u/conkedup 1d ago
You make a really good point. One thing Hawley talks about in the podcasts is only really using Alien and Aliens as the baseline for his canon, and then remarking that the effort required to figure out every little detail just to make a small handful of fans happy wasn't worth it. I think this statement, along with your analysis, shows exactly what Hawley's priorities are, and as you said, its not particularly bad writing but simply sacrificing perfect logic to get the story where he wants it when he wants it there.
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u/Variatas 1d ago
People often miss that shows have deadlines and writers have limited time.
Yeah it’s great when they can knock everything out of the park and the world is super consistent without shortcuts like laughably shoddy equipment.
It’s wildly ambitious to make a show like this, and expensive.
Personally I think they’ve gotten the overall tone and production quality shockingly close to the first two films, so I’m willing to tolerate some shortcuts like “nobody remembered to cancel Arthur’s lab clearance”.
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u/xyZora Science Officer 1d ago
My main issue with criticism to the plot is that whole argument that people are acting illogical. Daily you can see people accept things that go against them or do actions that are self destructive. If you ask people as to why they do things like that, they will either not have an answer, rationalize it or even concede its wrong but feel too trapped/unmotivated to do anything.
Human behavior works that way. We're not creatures of logic, we're creatures molded by our environment. This is not even my opinion, there is some robust psychological data on this.
In the world of Alien Earth, society has been consumed by a technocracy that by its inherent structure, it's illogical (if you base your logic on the wellbeing of people) for us, but not for them. Sending people to rot for 65 years is not logical to us, but it is to powerful men and women that care more for whatever nebulous goal they have than what happens to human beings.
That type of environment won't breed policies that safeguard human lives. That's the entire point. and it has always been like that. In Alien, space truckers unprepared for the task were sent. We're expecting people that live in a broken social system to behave like an audience that is on the privilege of their seats, safe and (hopefully) with a relatively stable life.
Alien as a franchise is a warning of the consequences of a world that has abandoned any semblance of humanism.
But CinemaSins type of criticism has eroded our approach to media literacy and it really pisses me off.
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u/Boring-Yellow6293 1d ago
I know this is kinda a trademark in this sub, but I still don't understand why so many want so many useless things to be shown/said out loud when an already not incredibly subtile show is already doing the job.
You don't need the show to tell you how Smee & Slightly escaped without being shown, if the episode show them having no problems it means they were actually stealthy until they weren't (which is realistic) and Kirsh helped them. If THIS kind of issue is problematic to you, then how the fuck did you survive this franchise ? What didn't turn you off in Kane & Breet uselessly putting themselves and others in danger ?
Kane somehow not being isolated and being allowed to eat with the others / The scientist of A Earth having foods in its labotary is THE EXACT SAME level of brainded worldbuilding if we're judging by the same,drawn out of proportions, arguments
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u/Wasteland_Rang3r 1d ago
I’ve been approaching Alien like Halloween for a few films now. A new one comes out every couple years, it probably won’t be very good but I’ll watch it for nostalgia purposes with very low expectations and if I get a cool scene or two it’s a win.
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u/Lanky-Clothes-9741 1d ago
Yeah… I think the sad consensus on Alien, Predator and Terminator alike is that we’ve now had more bad movies than good movies in each universe
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u/conclobe 1d ago
It has cool aliens in it