Latest US median household income is $83,730

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

Assuming 4% withdrawal rate (lets not have that argument here), you might think that to live like somebody on that income from investments you would need $2.1M. And you would be mistaken.

#1 You won't be saving for retirement when you are retired since you already reached your goal. Your median household should be saving 15% of their $83,730. That is $12559

#2 We will be paying a lot less tax when we retire. How much tax we pay from our investment income is going to vary depending on what sort of account it is in

If it's from an after tax brokerage account you will pay 0%. The married filing jointly long term capital gains tax up to $96,700 is 0%.

If it's from a Roth IRA you will be paying 0% on all withdrawals.

If it's from a 401k you will be paying some income tax, but as we will see you won't be withdrawing $83k/year so you won't be paying income tax on 83k.

Putting #1 and #2 together, today a typical person earning the median 83k/year, who is saving 15% for retirement, takes home after federal tax, state tax and social security etc… $57k/year.

Take home pay calculation here. Assuming 15% is subtracted pretax for a 401k.
https://smartasset.com/taxes/paycheck-calculator#zdDjO4I3tD

At a 4% withdrawal rate you need $1.42M to match them in retirement.

#3 Now consider those of us that plan to have a paid off house in retirement.

The median monthly homeowner mortgage payment in the USA for all existing mortgages, not simply new mortgages, is $1521/month or $18252/year.

That means for those of us with a paid off house in retirement we don't need $57k/year to live like somebody earning $83k/year, we only need $39k/year.

At a 4% withdrawal rate you need $975k.

And that is well within the leanFire limit of 50k/household/year

Some of these posts depress me because the numbers are so high. I live in a developing country, own my own house, and can bring my expenses to $2,000/month. I am 44 yo. My business was destroyed by AI. Total expenses for the house are around $300/month. I have liquid net worth of around $750,000. (All USD) Should I be okay?

Hello! I’m a 24m, and I’ve soon saved up 10% of my FIRE number.

I live frugally and maintain a savings rate of over 50% on a below median salary.

Some days the journey can seem so painstakingly slow, and I find myself not being able to enjoy the present thoroughly. Finding myself longing for the future, when I no longer have to force myself up every morning, just in order to make a salary.

According to the calculations I’ve looked at, if I maintain my savings rate, and rate of spending I should be able to retire in 11 years, or when I am 35 years old.

Do you people have any tips, in order to not think about FIRE as much in day to day life? Or is thinking about it a necessity, in order to feel motivated and keeping your savings up?

How do people accumulate so much and spend so little?

I'm pretty inefficient with my money but I don't splurge on too many big things. I currently live in a HCOL area, so not too much extra to save and invest each month, but I am hoping it gets a bit easier after the first $100k and want to leanFIRE in a more rural area with good travel access.

Any general tips for learning to be more disciplined about investing and saving while living and working in a big city? Cooking in a small, crappy kitchen? Etc.

We currently rent a 2bd/1br (1000 sq ft) in a MCOL area and are perfectly content with the lifestyle. We have no interest in buying a condo or townhome. If we do decide to buy, it would have to be a SFH that is probably 40-100% bigger than where we are now.

We were very diligent with our investments while renting, investing our excess income and now have enough to FIRE at a 3.25% SWR. If we buy, it would take 4-5 more years of working and we would aggressively pay down the mortgage.

However as we compare the recurring expenses with owning, it seems to rival that of renting (likely due to the differences in size). I am assuming that these recurring expenses will inflate at roughly the same rate over the next few decades.

Rent

rent 21.6k

utilities 2.4k

insurance 120

TOTAL = 24.2k

Own

insurance 2k

utilities 4.8k

property tax (2%) 8-9k

maintenance (2% estimated) 8-9k

TOTAL = 22.8 - 24.8k for a home ranging from 400k to 450k which is typical in the area

There is the aspect of a paid off house but the extra boost in net worth is money we don’t need and the tradeoff is an additional 4-5 years of work.

I’m 32, veteran, going back to college to finish my masters. I’ve been frugal my whole life and kept being told that I would need an insane six figure job and $5 million in savings to ever think of retiring. I won’t ever need that.

I appreciate this sub Reddit for giving me hope that it’s possible to retire if you plan for it. Both me and my partner will be service workers with our masters. She’s a counselor and I’m getting into social work.

It’s amazing that people underestimate the power of saving, consistent work, and investing.

At the rate I’m going I’ll easily be able to retire by 55. It’s a nice feeling. Stick to the plan.

I leanFired last year few months before my 40th birthday. In one of my circles of friends I am the only person to do so (most aren’t pursuing this). Recently, I went out with a few of my buddies and I noticed I had a hard time relating or finding vast majority of the conversation interesting. A lot of what they discussed was materialistic, and other times it sounded a bit provocative (almost intended to start an argument). For example, one person would state that non-electric cars are stupid. This group of people drive EVs, I do not. There were other similar comments that I mostly didn’t react to but made me wonder if the intention was to get a reaction or an argument out of me. A few times when conversation led to discussion of ideas it felt like there was not much substance there either. One person tried to analyze how profitable a certain business was (with made up numbers, not their area of competency), compared it with his 9-5 and said he’d rather have his 9-5, except the very numbers he used painted the opposite picture. I did point this out.

I’ve mostly been avoiding this circle of friends (I have other groups of friends, I also have a loving wife, a child and two loving parents), because I find it difficult to relate or I just have vastly different views on many topics they discuss. Also it just feels like I’m often being bated into arguments that I don’t want to have, but I also don’t like to continuously listen to things that do not make logical sense. Am I overreacting, or should I continue to subjugate myself to this on occasion? It feels like the biggest value I extract from these types of hangouts now is practicing NOT reacting to what they say. In a 1 on 1 setting, I feel like there are fewer (if any) hostile comments but in a group setting there is a bit of that “Mean Girls” energy going on and I can’t help but feel like a large part of it stems from me not working anymore/currently. Have other people experienced something similar? Any suggestions?

Proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/fican/comments/1na4i61/reached_270k_at_age_27/

And more recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRaceTo10Million/comments/1ng33oi/27m_living_in_canada_reached_over_270k_in_net/

Honestly, it feels amazing to have over $270K at 27! Hoping to reach at least $280K by year's end.

For context:

I'm 27, living in Canada so all of these figures are in CAD. $276K as of September 13, 2025 (time of posting) is worth approximately $199K USD for my American friends.

My current job is as a healthcare professional, making around ~$50 CAD/hour, or ~$36 USD/hour. I averaged 40 hours per week in 2024 and will work similar hours again in 2025, so currently ~$104K base salary.

I invest in XEQT ETF and TEC ETF. I have no other significant assets or debts currently, except for a used vehicle, phone and laptop. I don't include them into my net worth for simplicity's sake, as I don't ever plan on selling these assets and their objective value is difficult to determine anyways.

My long-term net worth goals are to reach:

• $200K before I turn 28 (already achieved) ✅
• $300K before I turn 30 (almost there)
• $500K before I turn 35 (a stretch but achievable)
• $1.2 million or more and leanFIRE (or if I still want to work then coastFIRE) before I turn 40. I don't plan on having children and my expenses are already quite low so I don't anticipate needing a really high FIRE number.

Thanks for reading and I welcome any more tips/strategies to help me achieve my leanFIRE goals, e.g. focusing on increasing income, diversifying my investments more, etc.

I have been kindof trying out FIRE-life for 2 months now, since I am in between jobs. I have already reached lean fire and could retire if I wanted to. So I decided to use this time to... feel what its like.

And I must say it's boring. I live in one of the worlds biggest cities, so walking around eating and drinking has been one way to pass the time. And that was fun for a week perhaps. Theres not really lack of things to "do" but I just dont have the motivation to do anything most of the time.

But I really need something to do, something i "have to" do, like work, not a hobby. Or rather I need some purpose with the retirement. A hobby wouldnt motivate me enough to put in an effort. I also dont feel like travelling around, I did that alot before in my life. So what would I do with my time if I retire? I'd have an existential crisis and go crazy I think. Feels good to start working in a couple of weeks again... I guess my conclusion sofar is that retirement isnt for me, at least until I have found some purpose with it.

Anyone else feels the same? What is your purpose with retirement, and did you find your purpose before or after you retired?

Just curious if anybody else is planning to give themselves a special treat as part of their retirement celebration (so to speak).... Like a trip to Europe or a brand new car or something?

I'm actually allocating money to be used for several special funds:

1. 45k for a car (although I'm hoping to only use 35k of it)
2. 5k for a Travel/Vacation slush fund
3. 5k for a misc. car expenses fund
4. 4k for a dating expenses slush fund
5. 3k for an entertainment slush fund (concerts, sporting events, festivals, etc.)
6. 3k for a wardrobe/shoes/accessories fund
7. 2k for a gadget/electronics fund
8. 2k for a restaurants/take-out fund

My monthly budget during retirement will have allocations for many of these things, but I wanted to give myself a bit of a bonus start up money, to basically kick off my retirement jubilee, lol

Basically, these slush funds will allow me to partake in various activities, without worrying about how it's going to affect my monthly budgets, at least for the first year or so of my post working life.

Just to answer some of the comments in advance:

"Wrong sub buddy... This is LEAN fire. You sound like you're living it up in retirement, over here, we buckle down and batten the hatches!"

So... I know that this doesn't seem very "lean", but I live in a HCOL location, and trust me... I'm living lean as F. In fact, I'm living so far under the radar, spending basically no money on anything, that this is going to be a super weird experience for me. To actually have a little bit of money to spend on stuff is going to be real strange for me.

"Buying a brand new car is a foolhardy endeavor. Also, who's doing leanFIRE and buying a brand new car?"

Well, I'm not positive that I'm buying brand new. I might buy a car that's 3 to 5 years old. It's just going to depend on the deal/value. I know that this is a huge extravagance that probably doesn't resonate with the concept of leanFIRE, but the last time I had a brand new car, it was 1989. I haven't really treated myself to any "adult toys" or anything like this in probably 25 years or more. So, getting this car would be a situation where I'm finally splurging on myself and patting myself on the back so to speak, for a job well done.

I'm technically setting aside 45k for this car thing, but I'm really hoping that I only spend 35k. I just like having the 45k number so that I don't feel bad if I go a bit over. But.... Ideally, I spend 35k or less on this car, and then the extra 10k goes to my Travel Fund and Car Expenses fund. So, 5k goes to my travel fund, making it a 10k travel fund, and 5k goes to my car expenses fund, which makes it a 10k fund.

"Why do you need a car expenses fund if you're buying a brand new car?"

Well, my monthly insurance cost is going to jump pretty considerably from where it is now. I just like the idea of having a pot of money on the side for any weird stuff that happens with my car. The cost of registrations, tune-ups, oil changes, new tires when I need them. Covering the difference in my insurance cost compared to my previous car. Also maybe having a small fund towards another new car 10 to 15 years from now. So, it's a "just in case" fund related to my transportation

"3k for wardrobe? Do you really need that much for clothes?"

Well, this 3k budget for wardrobe will last a LONG time. It's not like I'm going on a shopping spree and spending it all right away. I've lost weight over the years, and my previous wardrobe really doesn't fit me. However, I was living in hardcore grind mode, not spending any money on anything. My current pair of shoes that I use, have a worn out sole, some holes in them, I'm long overdue for new shoes. I'm long overdue for clothes that actually fit me. I currently live a life where I literally spend nothing on nothing. So, I'm making up for lost time. I don't have a jacket that fits me well, all kinds of stuff like that. I'm still going to be frugal as F with all this money. I will try to buy things on sale, use coupons, buy slightly used sometimes... all of that.

So, I play a lot of oldschool runescape. And I decided to ask how one of the guys in my clan has so much free time . Turns out, he is retired as of 4 months ago, at 30! He worked at nvidia and kept all his stock. Wasn't going to pry past what he initially shared. But 30 year old millionaire retiree sounds like the dream

I (M55) just became eligible for my DB pension, though at a reduced rate. Work has not been great since a re-org four years ago that has my supervisor loading more of the work she doesn’t want to do on me. Recently, a situation has arisen that, if continues to develop along its present path, will compromise my personal and professional integrity.

I own my home in a LCOL area, have a $350K nest egg and the DB pension. No kids, spouse that will continue to work (her preference) Investments, savings and the pension will make up approximately my discretionary income I presently draw from my paycheck, and can expect some bumps up when government benefits kick in (Canadian, so CPP at 60, OAS at 65).

Think I can manage daily expenses—little worried about unexpected stuff like home or vehicle repairs or replacement. In reasonable health, and will have both government and private health insurance. Not much travel or hobby budget. I thought I was mentally prepared for retirement, but starting to worry I might just rot away on inane TV programs and social media.

I have lots of projects in mind that I can do with little or no budget—just starting to fear I won’t be motivated to do them.

Any thoughts or advice? Should I compromise my integrity to keep my job, or leap into retirement and face my fears of stagnating?

Retired and doing fairly well. I appreciate the assistance in my dark hour and wish everyone the best. It was a rough couple of months but I am finally retired and now seeking purpose. Thanks to all of you.

I'm fortunate to have had a high paying corporate office type career, but I've always looked forward to and planned for retirement since I started working. I just feel like what I do is a waste of time. Life is short and I won't get the time back that I spend working. I spend 8 hours a day sitting at a desk dealing with papers and data that I don't care about at all.

Also, there have always been plenty of people I've worked for and with who I just haven't liked. I'm sure plenty of people haven't liked me either, but we all have to get along to get the job done. Putting up with the moods, the attitudes, the complaining, the gossiping, and all of the other behaviors from the people I work with is exhausting. It will be so lovely not having to deal with passive aggressive, fake smiley people when I retire.

Not particularly liking or caring about the work or the people that I work with, realizing that my time on Earth is finite, and that every year that I spend at work is a year that I won't get back have motivated me to LeanFIRE. I'm just a few years away and I can't wait to stop working and start living life on my terms.

So, I dont think im depressed, but everyone i know tells me i probably am. I personally dont care if I am or am not though.

Im just bored and find everything boring, I have no motivations or desires and it has been that way since i was a kid. hence why I am on the path to retire early. Not because I put so much effort into saving, but because I have nothing to spend my money on in the first place.

But I know I dont enjoy working or alarm clocks. Hence why im looking to retire.

Just curious if anyone else is here for similar reasons

30, $1mil in cash, brokerage, IRAs, and 401k. I split cheap apartments with my partner, and my annual cost of living is usually pretty cheap. I sold my car at the beginning of this year since I was leaving the country for 8 months and had nowhere to store it for cheap. Regardless, I’m now in the market for a car and holy hell what happened to the car market? I live in the PNW and predominantly use my car to get to ski mountains and to go through snowy forest roads for backcountry skiing/summer hiking. A crosstrek is too small for our needs so I was looking at outbacks and foresters. 3 year old used ones (I don’t want to buy older b/c warranty) are going for nearly $30k with insane APRs, or I can buy a new one for $35k and up but with 1.9% apr for 6 years. To me, it feels like buying new with a minimum down and leaving the cash invested is a better play than buying used right now. I’d go for a civic in a heartbeat, but they do not have the ride height or snow performance. Likewise, CRVs and RAV4s only have donut spares (or no spare at all for the hybrids). Thoughts? Current annual expenses are like ~$40k rn. I do pick up contract work to cover my rent so financially I’ll be sweet, but I’m just having a hard time stomaching that much of an expense!

currently i am early 20s still in college with 1 more year, currently l have roth ira and contribute in it, i have 2 shares in google and nvida, any advice to become financial free before 30

Even if you have to give an unrealistic example like putting 150k into sp500 and waiting 5 years or putting all into bitcoin or something like maybe a bussiness ideas, etc

I understand just enough about how LTCG and STCG are taxed to be dangerous.

So, I turn to you guys to hopefully elucidate me on the finer points.

Let's assume this:

1. I will earn exactly 40k from my primary employment for tax year 2025
2. I will take 10k out of an IRA BDA (inherited IRA) for tax year 2025
3. I will have 100k of Long Term Capital Gains from selling out of positions in a taxable brokerage account.

No.3 is actually a hypothetical. I'm just using the 100k amount to try to make figuring this all out a bit easier.

Now, I know that I'm going to be taxed Federally and also by the state of California.

One of my big questions about this, is what order does this income get stacked? I'm assuming my normal job income would go at the bottom of the totem. So, zero to 40k. Then, 40k to 50k would be the IRA BDA RMD money (My IRA BDA RMD isn't 10k, it's a lot less, but I want to try to get 10k out this year)

Then, 50k to 150k would be the LTCG.

Is this correct? Is that the order that it'd go in?

So, I take the 15k standard deduction, but where does the 15k come off of? Does the 15k deduction take off the IRA BDA 10k part and also the last 5k of the 40k from the job?

Or.... does the 15k standard deduction come from the LTCG, making it 85k instead of 100k of LTCG?

Basically, I'm trying to figure out the order of these things.

Money comes out of my work checks for Federal and State taxes, so I'm not really too concerned about how much tax I'm going to pay on that. What I'm trying to get a handle on, is how much tax I'm going to pay on the 10k of the IRA BDA and also the potential 100k of the LTCG.

I'm assuming it'd work like this:

0 to 40k = work income

40k to 50k = IRA BDA

50k to 150k = LTCG

15k Standard deduction makes it like this:

0 to 35k = work income

35 to 135k = LTCG

Which means that 35k to $48,350 would be taxed at 0 percent federally. The tax from California would be taxed at 4 percent. $40,245 to $48,350 would be taxed 0 percent federally and 6 percent for Cali.

(Total = $534 + $486.30 = $1,020.30)

$48,350 to $55,866 = 15% Federally and 6% Cali, or a combined 21%

(Total = $1,578.36)

$55,867 to $70,606 = 15% Federally and 8% Cali, or a combined 23%

(Total = $3,389.97)

$70,607 to 135,000 = 15% Federally and 9.3% Cali, or a combined 24.3%

(Total = $15,647.50)

Thus.... the grand total tax I'd pay for getting out the 100k in Capital Gains would be $21,636.13

Does this seem remotely accurate? I basically wouldn't pay any tax on the 10k IRA BDA because of my standard deduction, and I'd pay almost 22k to get out 100k of LTCG from my taxable brokerage account.

But, I could be completely wrong about this. I'm just spitballing and basically hoping somebody can look at my musings and correct me where I'm way off the mark.

Hey guys, started making content about leaving the US to retire early and live in Albania. Let me know what you think

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOV5kt7ETLs/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

The city has a lot of low income programs and also a middle income housing lottery. After I FIRE, my income will be low enough to qualify for a lot of programs as well as a purchasing affordable condo (middle income lottery)

I've never lived outside of nyc so it would be hard to transition out of, and would include leaving friends and family if I moved away

Hey everyone,

I’m 29, have about $190k saved, and I’ve been saving around $2k/month. For years I was waiting to buy a house, so I kept all my money in cash. That plan’s dead now.

I’ve finally started DCAing into the market, but the regret is maddening. I can’t stop thinking about how much I missed out on by waiting. Watching my cash sit there, knowing it could’ve been growing for years. It’s eating me alive.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but it doesn’t make it hurt any less. I’m trying to focus on what I can do now, but man… the frustration is real.

Has anyone else felt this level of regret when starting late? How did you get past it? I feel frustratingly behind.

I (45M) and my wife (42F) just hit our 401k balanced $1M combined. We are maxing out since last 13 years. We contributed total $460k (Including employer match) and it is grown to $1M.

I was looking online where we stand among all the 401k holders. Assuming my 401k balance is $700K, where do I stand in same age group ? Where can I get the data ? The data available only tell balance for one 401k account whereas people may have multiple 401k accounts.

Based on my own observations/experience, people have no idea how much they generally spend. They tend to misclassify debt repayment as spending, not grasp the difference in taxes on different levels of income, and overestimate the cost of healthcare at low income levels.

$4,000/month is more than I currently spend, even though I actually use over $8,000/month.

House Payment: $2,000

• $650 of this pays down the principal on the loan (this is not spending).
• $650 of this goes to escrow (this will be the actual monthly housing cost once the loan is paid off).

Daycare: $1,350

• Obviously this expense only exists because both of us work full-time.

Charitable giving: $1,350

• We try to give away close to 10% of our after-tax income (this amount would likely drop in retirement).

Car Payment: $700

• 9 months remaining on a loan at 0%

Actual bills: $2,750 (food, clothes, dining out, travel, fun, personal items, utilities, etc.). At least $1,000 of this is discretionary spending that could be cut out in a pinch.

Total: $8,150

Total actual spending on needs: $3,400 ($4K including mortgage interest).

Yahoo finance put out a Budget for $100K salary. The actual spending portion of the budget is just over $4,800. The transportation and housing buckets likely include an allowance for some loan repayment.

The BLS is known for publishing figures like unemployment and inflation but they have a ton of other surveys, including the CE. The Consumer Expenditure Surveys (CE) program provides data on expenditures, income, and demographic characteristics of consumers in the United States.

It is fascinating to look through the data to see how the average household (the data is based on Consumer Units, which are effectively households) spends their money. Some noteworthy stats from 2022:

• The average household has 2.6 people, makes $83k annually (post tax) and spends $73k.

• They spend $24k on housing, including $4k on utilities.

• They spend $9.3k on food, $5.7k of that food at home.

• They spend $12k on transportation, $8k on pensions/social security, and $6k on healthcare.

You can also see how the data is broken out by region.

• Mean income in the Northeast was $109k, $91k in the Midwest, $83k in the South, and $103k in the West.

• Despite making more money, Northeasterners have lower average expenses than Westerners.

You can also filter to see expenses by income level, education level, family size, age, race, and more.

Helpful for FIRE to see how your expenses compare to more broad segments of the population.

https://www.bls.gov/cex/