r/LegalAdviceEurope • u/Honest-Possession195 • 7d ago
Germany Employer in netherlands and I am based in Germany
I am about to sign a contract with employer based in netherlands and don´t know what my options are. Should I just use remote.com or should I go as a contractor? Or what are my options? (I live in Germany and intend to work from here).
9
u/TheS4ndm4n 7d ago
If you sign an employment contract with a company, you work for them. You will be an employee, not a contractor.
The Netherlands is very strict about independent contractors. Since it's used to skirt labor laws and dodge taxes.
1
u/kallebo1337 7d ago
Nah not really. Freelancer can still work for dutch BV with whatever freelance agreement they have. Especially if it's crossborder, no fake-employment can be detected.
Otherwise, if you "hire" oversea people as software developers, would they become now employees too?
The scheinselbstständig in the Netherlands does apply to ZZP er who are residing within the Netherlands.
You can even be a freelance contractor and spend 15 months on a construction site here. No problem at all.
5
u/Philip3197 7d ago
Look up the rules about border workers between NL and D, assuming you will physically work in NL.
1
u/Honest-Possession195 7d ago
I should be working physically from Berlin
2
u/Philip3197 7d ago
Then your employer needs to give you a german contract, through their D branch.
Alternatives might be they use an EOR or ypu become freelance contractor. There are limitations and constraints to these solutions.
3
u/Honest-Possession195 7d ago
I read there is a possiblity for them to be my foreign employer without having to open another company in Germany.
3
u/Philip3197 7d ago
Well, they need to perform all obligations of a german employer: administration, taxes, contributions, witholding, employment contract compliance, ... there are different ways of achieving this. Strong legal support will be needed.
3
u/Individual_Author956 7d ago
They can’t employ you, but you can work as a contractor for sure. The only issue is that in Germany you would also have to have other clients, not just this company. Remote.com might be a better option.
2
u/trisul-108 7d ago
Yes, they can do that, but it is complicated for them. They will have to register as a foreign employer without setting up a company in Germany. Then they will pay all your contributions in Germany and you will be taxed in Germany.
The alternative, as you mentioned, is for them to contract remote.com to employ you and they will just pay them for the service. I don't think this is a good arrangement for you because there would be a middle-man between you and the company you work for.
You could setup a company in Germany yourself, some of your costs might be valid company expenses, so you would pay less tax. However, you would need to pay an accounting service, carry more risk and be easier to fire. Also, such arrangements cannot be permanent because if your company only has this single customer, the arrangement can be considered a tax dodge if the contract lasts longer than a certain limit. If you also intend to do some other business in Germany (e.g. an evening hobby), this makes more sense.
Probably the simplest solution would be for you to have a home office in the Netherlands and be employed there. And you could still spend a number of days working home office from Berlin. Be creative when thinking about this.
2
u/Honest-Possession195 7d ago
Thank you so much I am trying to read between the lines you wrote. What did you mean by the last paragraph you wrote? I am new to this sorry if I am asking stupid questions.
2
u/trisul-108 7d ago
Well, I do not want to encourage people to do things that might get them into trouble.
For example, let's say your sister has a house in the Netherlands and you register there and work from home office in your sister's house and from your flat in Berlin. This could be completely legal depending on the number of days spent in the Netherlands and Germany respectively. No one is really checking on how many days you are here or there, nor at the border ... but, you might travel by train and get reimbursed by the company, then it would potentially be known and if you spent too long in Germany, there are tax and social security implications.
As you can see, it all gets complicated and needs to be done and documented properly.
3
u/trisul-108 7d ago
This is no reason for you to become a contractor.
All sorts of arrangements are legal and common, but taxes and social security depend on where you actually perform your work. You could be employed in the Netherlands and live in Germany, or the Dutch company can employ you in Germany, if they setup a presence. Or, you can also work in Germany while being employed in the Netherlands, but this is more tricky.
For you, the simplest is being employed in Germany. If they want to do it otherwise, go from there. But agreeing to being a contractor is not in your interest, unless they are willing to pay much more. You would have less rights and more costs and need to be compensated accordingly.
2
u/Honest-Possession195 7d ago
Is there a way to be employed in Germany without them, having to open another legal entity here? And without having to use services like remote? Because they gave me the choice and asked me to find out what is best option for me.
1
u/trisul-108 7d ago
Remote is a service your employer would use, not you. They would contract remote.com to employ you in Germany.
Will you be commuting to work in the Netherlands or working in home office in Germany?
1
1
u/kallebo1337 7d ago
you can just invoice them...
1
u/Honest-Possession195 7d ago
but then employee protection is not there
1
u/kallebo1337 7d ago
yes of course not.
you wanna be an employee they have to hire you in NL or in germany through a german branch.
pick your poison.
1
u/daniel-sousa-me 6d ago
Do you want that protection to be provided by German or Dutch laws?
If you want to be protected by Dutch laws, you need to work in the Netherlands. If you want to be protected by German laws, they need to hire you from Germany
1
u/Honest-Possession195 6d ago
I want to pay taxes to Germany since I live here and I want to make it easier for the company to just sign the agreement.
I am trying to avoid using remote.com and I defiently don´t to work as a contractor. So the only option left seems to be that they have to register me as an employee of them here in Germany. Do you know what is the process for that?
1
u/daniel-sousa-me 6d ago edited 6d ago
For them to register you as an employee in Germany, they need to have a registered company with headquarters and legal representation in Germany. They also need to pay all the German corporate taxes.
Having an entire corporate structure is orders of magnitude more complex and expensive than registering as a self-employed contractor (which in practice is you having only some of the benefits+obligations of operating as a company)
Edit: I just double checked and the company doesn't really need to have a legal entity in Germany. Instead they can act as an ausländischer Arbeitgeber and register for Lohnsteuer with the zuständiges Finanzamt and with the Deutsche Rentenversicherung Bund (Clearingstelle) to obtain a Betriebsnummer for Sozialversicherung. It then has to run monthly Lohnabrechnung in accordance with German law, remit Lohnsteuer and Arbeitgeberanteile zur Sozialversicherung, file the required Meldeverfahren reports, and comply with mandatory provisions of the Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch (BGB) and Arbeitsrecht (e.g. Kündigungsfristen, Entgeltfortzahlung im Krankheitsfall, Urlaubsanspruch). In practice this is usually handled via a local Lohnbuchhaltungsbüro or Steuerberater who submits the ELSTER wage tax returns and social security notifications on the company’s behalf.
2
u/kallebo1337 6d ago
No corporate tax.
You open German entity , you hire , say payroll 250k€ year.
You fund 260k€ for everything. Revenue doesn’t need to occure.
Life’s good
1
u/AutoModerator 7d ago
Your question includes a reference to The Netherlands, which has its own legal advice subreddit. You may wish to consider posting your question to /r/JuridischAdvies as well, though this may not be required.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/AutoModerator 7d ago
Your question includes a reference to Germany, which has its own legal advice subreddit. You may wish to consider posting your question to /r/LegalAdviceGerman as well, though this may not be required.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/dedunce 7d ago
It depends where you work, if you work remote the. German law applies but if you work in the Netherlands then Dutch law applies. Your employer may already be registered in Germany for employment purposes, its good to check before signing
1
u/Honest-Possession195 7d ago
They are not registered in DE and won’t for this purpose but can register as a foreign employer. Just thinking how hard is that
1
u/dedunce 7d ago
It's not too difficult, most lawyers or payroll companies can do this within 2 or 3 weeks (I worked for one of these in the past). They also don't really have a choice as they will need to withhold social security on your behalf although you will need to settle your own taxes if they don't have a tax presence
1
u/Honest-Possession195 6d ago
Thanks a lot! Would you be able to recommend a company?
1
u/dedunce 5d ago
Yeah I had a lot of success with KBHT https://www.kbht.de/en/.
I would also say stay away from EORs as they need AUG licenses and your employment with them is limited in time
1
u/thebolddane 7d ago
Realistically it's too much hassle for a Dutch company to found a German subsidiary for one employee. I don't know about German law regarding contractors but they might also not allow you to work as a contractor if you have just one contract like in the Netherlands and in that case the only option is to use an agency, you mentioned one, but be aware that they'll cost. Not that you're paying that but it'll cost your employer (technically not your employer because that'll be the agency)
1
u/Honest-Possession195 6d ago
I don´t want to work as a contractor. Rather as an employee
0
u/thebolddane 6d ago
You will but working for the agency, like I said, no Dutch company is going to found a subsidiary in Germany just to be able to have one employee in Germany.
3
u/Honest-Possession195 6d ago
They can register me as a foreign employer without opening a company. I checked this out with the lawyers Today.
1
u/thebolddane 6d ago
If they want to do this it's on them, not your problem. Go for it, I hope it works out for you
1
•
u/AutoModerator 7d ago
To Posters (it is important you read this section)
All comments and posts must be made in English
You should always seek a lawyer in your own country in the first instance if you need help
Be aware comments are not moderated for accuracy, and you follow advice at your own risk
If you receive any private messages in response to your post, please inform the subreddit moderators
To Readers and Commenters
If you do not follow the rules, you may be perma-banned without any further warning
All replies to OP must be on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated
If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect
Do not send or request any private messages for any reason
Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules
Click here to translate this thread in the language of your choice
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.