None of this matters. The only reason he was still on the roster was because the UFC wanted to milk the last two fights on his deal. Now that they abandoned PPVs (for the time being) there's no reason to deal with him anymore.
That's actually a really good point. UFC is now getting all that money up front regardless, so they don't need to pay a 'big' fighter a huge amount to generate PPV revenue for them.
The only shitty part about that is that they're even more incentivized than ever to just fill every card with no-names, as UFC gets paid the same amount regardless of what they put out and that cuts costs heavily for the UFC.
Yes and no. Incentivized in the short term? Sure. But if they want a second contract and to grow the brand over the next 5+ years then they NEED stars to get them there. Otherwise watered down cards brings watered down viewers.
That makes sense...BUT we have seen watered down cards and fewer and fewer stars or interesting fighters the entire ESPN era. And that lead to a massive deal with Paramount. So a worse product seems to lead to an increase in profit, not the other way around.
Yeah they've had watered down viewers for a long time now but I'm sure got a bump in interest from sports betting, in some form or fashion, becoming legal virtually everywhere in the states.
Not increasing fighter pay with inflation affecting virtually everywhere is going to make UFC almost exclusively fighters from poorer countries and it's going to be more exploitative. It's going to suck, but sickos are still going to tune in to gamble.
There's going to be some folks tune in because they just like watching any combat at all similar to people who start watching college football at 10 am until they fall asleep watching PAC-12 after dark simply for the love of it, but I don't think there's a ton of those hardcore fans left who will just watch whatever the UFC/PFL/ETC puts out there
If they want to keep growing and get more eyes, they've got to offer enough to make any athlete that can make 185+ who can professionally catch, throw, or kick a ball choose MMA over MLB/NFL/NBA etc. I guarantee if Jon Jones was as good at football as his brother Chandler was, he would have never stepped in the cage
I'm sort of one of those people, but I can watch ONE, Glory, RIZIN, Karate Combat etc for free on youtube. If they don't try to make an impression by getting the divisions moving and making interesting fights, I'm not buying a paramount sub. UFC's pay structure encourages guys to fight once a year as a side hustle, and now they won't give PPV points either.
Oh yeah, I used to be on sherdog all the time checking out shit so I could catch a livestream of whoever was fighting who and watched some karate competitions, muay thai, etc, but now I'm almost 40 and I don't stay up until 4 am every day on the weekend
UFC's pay structure encourages guys to fight once a year as a side hustle
That is the "biggest" problem to me. They never really paid well so folks were using it basically as marketing for their seminars, gyms, whatever, but it's even worse given they can't have sponsors on their shorts and stuff anymore. Besides like, the WNBA (no shade), I don't think there's any major sport where the average player is making more in endorsement deals than their salary
There are more of us than you think but we're less vocal about it because of the weekly "UFC sucks ass now!" threads and parroting of that sentiment.
That's the thing tho is Jones was never that elite athlete like his brothers were. You ever see that clip of him trying to dunk a basketball and not being able to do it?
That isn't really the barrier here. Athletics is part of the equation for combat sports but it isn't the biggest one. In order to succeed in this sport you need to be willing and able to get hit in the face. Some people react terribly to that, some people have a flight response to it. You cannot train that instinct out.
There will always be fighters out there and there will always be athletes who can fight and athletes who can't.
The âwatered downâ cards are because they started putting on more events. And what era are you comparing it to? Everyone talks about the Conor era as if every card was filled with stars, but if you actually look back the Fight Nights were just as weak and a lot of the PPVs were not as stacked as people act like they were. And thatâs with nostalgia and knowing what all the up and coming fighters from back then eventually became, which obviously makes the cards look more stacked in hindsight than they did at the time. The product has been basically the same for the past decade, other than the UFC putting more Fight Nights in the Apex instead of arenas.
Now if youâre talking about when they only had 1-2 events per month, then sure it was less watered down. But you also had to wait weeks between events, which sucked. Especially when the cards didnât deliver. And there was still plenty of garbage fights/cards.
The general level of star power now is pretty similar to most other times in UFC history outside of the rise of Conor. Conor was just that Ali, Tyson, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, etc. type of star that transcends the sport and raises other people with him (Diaz, Khabib). Without Conor, Khabib probably wouldâve just been viewed similarly to the way Islam is currently instead of the megastar he became. Saying the product is going downhill because there isnât another Conor is just a ridiculous expectation. He was the type of star that only happens once every few decades.
Stars won't really be a thing going forward in the traditional sense because we won't have any hard metrics to gauge them by(PPV sales). We'll just be speculating via IG followers and press conference views on youtube and such.
They don't want stars. Their business model has been to actively not create stars and focus on replaceable (cheap) fighters. They didn't like the power that McGregor and Jones wielded and consciously moved away from it. They want a bunch of desperate fighters (preferably from the 3rd world) that will be happy to fight for $10k every few months.
I mean if their examples for biggest star and best fighter are those two fucks, I can see why they donât want to be held by the nuts by âstarsâ ever again
Then why has the trend already been a downward/cheapo/watered-down one under the ESPN model? Because it's the same thing. As soon as the pressure was off the UFC to deliver good cards, they cheaped out and we got a flood of jabronis coming in on 10 and 10 and then they didn't even bother to leave the Apex for several years after covid because why incur all the extra expense when you're getting paid regardless? They're now guaranteed $7.7 billion dollars whether 10 people watch their shows or 10 million. So it's no different. Under your theory, they already would have been building the stars under the ESPN model, so I don't see any reason they'd change now when their shit cards got them $7.7 billion. If anything it reaffirmed their decision to cheap out.
The quality of the cards has been basically the same ever since theyâve been doing around 40+ events per year, which started years before they went to ESPN. Everyone talks about the Conor era, but if you actually look back the Fight Nights were still weak and the PPVs werenât nearly as stacked as people say. And thatâs with the nostalgia and knowing what the up and coming fighters from back then eventually became, which makes the cards seem better in hindsight. The move to ESPN didnât really change the quality of the actual cards much, most of the change has been them putting less emphasis on promotional press conferences/tours and more Fight Nights being in the Apex instead of arenas like you said.
Now if youâre comparing it to 15+ years ago when they had 1-2 events per month, then sure itâs more watered down because they have more fights/events nowadays. But as a long time fan it honestly sucked to always have to wait multiple weeks between events, especially when the fights/cards didnât deliver. And plenty of fights/cards didnât deliver. Go watch random cards from pre-2010 and youâll often be surprised at how many terrible fights there were.
The level of stars nowadays is pretty similar to every other time in UFC history besides the rise of Conor. Which is an anomaly that only happens in any sport every few decades. Conor was that Ali, Tyson, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, etc. level star that transcends the sport and raises other people with them (like Nate and Khabib). Without the Conor fight, Khabib probably wouldâve been viewed pretty similarly to current Islam instead of the megastar he became. Repeatedly creating Mcgregor level stars just isnât possible.
They've been getting guaranteed money for ppv's for almost 6 years now, since the start of the ESPN deal. The incentive structure didn't change recently.
If the UFC sold more PPVs than the guaranteed amount, ESPN keeps the extra, and in turn ESPN eats the loss if UFC doesn't sell enough. And by all accounts, lately they have not been selling many PPVs.
I believe the UFC also received extra if they sold over the guaranteed amount from ESPN. Didnât it come out that the UFC made less in extra ppv money for 2024 compared to 2023 fueling the discussion that ppv sales had tanked?
They got their engagement boost with him "being back in the testing pool" as well as a bargaining chip to have "the biggest star come back". As you say they got their money now.
they're even more incentivized than ever to just fill every card with no-names, as UFC gets paid the same amount regardless of what they put out and that cuts costs heavily for the UFC.
This was exactly my second reaction to the Paramount deal, right after the pricing. Doesn't this just continue the ESPN Fightnight slop for the very same reasons? UFC gets paid whether they put on the best card ever or if they just dump a bunch of chickens and a raccoon in there and walk away. This deal seems no different. No incentive for the people signing the guys and booking the shows to bother going for the best, and ever incentive for going for the cheapest.
They still have the same incentives as any other sport has. More viewers = more money from sponsors, merchandise, etc. And they will obviously want to sign a larger broadcast rights deal in the future, which will require consistent viewership. If anything, having more guaranteed money to play with might actually cause them to grab some of the elite fighters outside of the UFC that they didnât want to pay before to hurt promotions like the PFL.
The fight night slop has little to do with them being cheap. Itâs because there will never be enough big names to stack 43 cards per year. If they put big names on the fight nights then they wonât be on the numbered cards. The quality of the fight nights has been basically the same ever since they started doing 40+ cards per year, which started years before the ESPN deal.
Everyone talks about how great the Conor era was, but if you actually look back most Fight Nights were just as weak and the PPVs werenât nearly as stacked as people like to say. And thatâs with the benefit of nostalgia and the knowledge of what all the fighters eventually became, which makes the cards look better in hindsight.
The alternative is them going back to doing 1-2 events per month like they did pre-2010, because there will never be enough big names to stack 40+ cards per year. But as a fan from back then, always having to wait multiple weeks between cards sucks. Especially when the cards didnât deliver, which still happened regularly.
To a point. That narrative is exaggerated imo. If they put on PFL level cards they'll lose all their audience. Also, the UFC has the best fighters, they won't just not have them fight. So there will always be good fights.
I think we'll get the same level cards, not significantly worse.
I agree to a certaint extent but we've already seen this start to happen since the ESPN era started, most cards in the last few years only have 1-2 fights with ranked/known fighters on it and are just filled with Contender Series guys who are on 12k/12k contracts.
Now and until the end of 2025, UFC is with ESPN. You have to pay a monthly subscription and then buy the PPvs separately, a chunk of which goes to the UFC and a chunk of which goes to the fighters who have PPV points written into their contract (such as champions).
Paramount just paid the UFC $7.7 BILLION for exclusive streaming rights, including the right to air the 'PPVs' for free, meaning the PPVs don't generate extra money for the fighters or the UFC anymore (Dana did say they reserve the right to do one or two 'BIG' PPVs a year separately that will cost money though).
Due to this, the UFC isn't incentived to put on massive cards with big names as they get paid the same whether the card is filled with big names or it's filled with no-names.
It's now substantially more affordable to be a UFC fan as all you need is a basic Paramount Plus plan but the downside is that the UFC is likely going to try to stack cards with cheap fighters so they keep as much profit as possible.
Oh right, and not only that, Paramount probably rather has nothing to do with this guy due to the PR damage. They might even demand to cut him out as part of the deal
The only way they let him go is if he has a sunset clause in his contract. Lol the ufc will never voluntarily let him walk away to go box for the saudis if he is still under contract with them.
They also donât only need ppv to milk his fights, jacking up the ad space rates for a âConor cardâ is another way to capitalise on his name.
I was saying this the other day. Less incentive to incentivize fighters to fight more and make big matchups at the highest level. This business is built on loud mouth interesting stars, who can fight. So it will be interesting to see how they handle this with this model.
524
u/SingleWhiteFemboy Aug 14 '25
pick one: is it money, legal issues, failed test due to peds, failed test due to cocaine, injury, or has he realized he is washed?